05/26/22 05/26/22 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! pres. biden: the idea in 18-year-old can walk into a store and buy weapons of war designed a marketed to kill, i think is wrong. it just violates common sense. amy: president biden has announced plans to visit uvalde , texas, after an 18-year-old

gunman shot dead 19 students and two teachers in a fourth grade classroom. it was the deadliest school shooting in over a decade. we will speak to the gun control group giffords, named after gun -- commerce member gabby giffords, we will also speak to an australian gun activist who helped rewrite australia's gun laws after the port arthur massacre. plus, we will look more at the texas community of uvalde and the role of border patrol in the region. >> sd so far they will no enforce immigration law r the me being, but of course, we have no idea what that means moving forward. amy: and we speak to patrick cockburn about russia's invasion of ukraine. he warns "london and washington are being propelled by hubris -- just as putin was." all that and more, coming up.

welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. vigils were held in uvalde, texas, wednesday, a day after an 18-year-old gunman shot and killed 19 students and two teachers at the robb elementary school. it was the deadliest school shooting in the united states in over a decade. all of the victims were in the same fourth-grade classroom. the white house has president biden will visit uvalde and the coming days. chilling new details have emerged about the events leading up to the massacre. officials said the gunman lawfully purchased two semiautomatic assault rifles and up to 375 rounds of a munition just last week after his 18th birthday. on tuesday morning, the texted a teenage girl he'd befriended in

germany online, writing, "i just shot my grandma in her head," followed immediately by the message, "ima go shoot up a elementary school." police say the gunman shot his way past and armed school security officer, then barricaded himself inside the school for over an hour, wounding two police officers before he was shot dead by a border patrol agent. some parents report they tried to storm the school as they waited for police to respond but were pushed back. the gunman was reportedly in that school between 40 minutes and an hour. on wednesday, texas gubernatorial candidate and former congressmember beto o'rourke interrupted a press conference held by texas governor greg abbott in uvalde. video of the incident shows he approached the stage and telling

abbott, this is totally predictable when you choose not to do anything. beto o'rourke shouted, talks to desktop texas republican and escorted from the room by police. we will play excerpts of that confrontation after the headlines. governor abbott has declined to say whether he still plans to attend the national rifle association's 2022 annual meeting which is that to open in houston on friday. texas republican lieutenant governor dan patrick and republican senator ted cruz still plan to attend, as does former president donald trump. he will be the headliner on friday night. world leaders continue to react in horror to the latest mass shooting in the united states. at the vatican, pope francis said wednesday he was heartbroken by the massacre in texas. >> it is time to say enough to the indiscriminate trafficking of weapons. let us all make the commitment.

let us all make the commitment so tragedies like this cannot happen again. america after headlines, we will get the latest on the elementary school massacre and speak with a gun activist who helped rewrite australia's gun laws after a mass shooting in 1996. in ukraine, fierce fighting continues to rage around the besieged industrial city of severodonetsk, where sustained russian artillery attacks this week have killed at least six civilians. russian forces are also advancing on the city of lyman in the southeastern donetsk region. on wednesday, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy blasted henry kissinger after the former u.s. secretary of state said ukraine should trade some of its territory for a peace agreement with russia. zelenskyy compared kissinger's proposal to the appeasement of nazi germany in the 1930's. >> mr. kissinger emerges from the deep past and says that the piece of ukraine should be giv

to russia so that there is no alienation of russia from europe. it seems that mr. kissinger's calendar is n 20, but 1938. he was talking to a but it's not in davos but in munich at that time. amy: russia's parliament has voted to abolish an upper age limit for people wishing to join the military. once president vladimir putin signs the measure into law, russians over the age of 40 will be able to enlist in the armed forces. on wednesday, putin visited a military hospital in moscow, where he met with soldiers injured in ukraine for the first time since he ordered his troops to invade more than three months ago. also wednesday, putin signed a decree fast-tracking russian citizenship for residents of russian-occupied areas of ukraine. hungary's authoritarian prime minister viktor orban has extended emergency powers citing

the war in neighboring ukraine. the move grants orban's far-right nationalist government sweeping powers to enact policies without the input of the legislature. orban, who recently won a fourth term as prime minister, has been accused of turning hungary into a "ballot-box dictatorship." in afghanistan, at least 14 people were killed in a series of bomb attacks on wednesday. five people died and 22 others inred after a bomb exploded at a mosque during evening prayers in the capital kabul. meanwhile, in northern afghanistan, nine people were killed and 15 others injured in a series of blasts targeting minivans carrying minority shia muslims in the city of mazar-e-sharif. afghanistan's isis affiliate claimed responsibility for those attacks. the violence came as unicef warned some 1.1 million afghan children are expected to suffer from severe acute malnrition this year. thousands of people across the middle east have been hospitalized with respiratory

problems after a massive sand storm settled over the region this week. kuwait suspended airline flights, iran canceled classes for schoolchildren, and saudi officials warned drivers over zero-visibility conditions on roads. on monday, iraq's government canceled most public services as the country's ninth major sandstorm in less than two months arrived. the united nations environment program says iraq is one of the most vulnerable nations to climate change and desertification. in pakistan, temperatures in the city of jacobabad hit a record 51 degrees celsius wednesday. that's 124 degrees fahrenheit. farmers in the region say extreme heat this year is killing crops and drying up water supplies. >> the mingo crop yield has been reduced by 50% this year. this is because of the scarcity of water. mango farmers have suffered losses and so did the traders. amy: the biden administration says it will seek to ban the

disposal of mining waste in alaska's bristol bay citing its authority under the clean water act. the move by the environmental protection agency could spell the end of the pebble mine project, a proposed open-pit gold and copper mine that would require construction of a massive power plant, natural gas pipeline, and huge toxic tailing ponds. in davosswitzerland, climate activists on the sidelines of the world economic forum are demanding world leaders act urgently on the climate and on russia's invasion of ukraine. this is kenyan environmentalist elizabeth wathuti. >> i think one of the main things about the war in ukraine is it is continuing to exacerbate the impacts of climate change, especially the rising food and security in the whole of africa. what we're hearing is the fact this crisis -- we're not talking about the ukraine crisis at the same time. people are not aware of the fact this crisis also continues to

impact the communities on the front line. amy: in rio de janeiro, brazil, at least 23 people have been killed in one of the deadliest police operations in the nation's modern history. the police raid targeted vila cruzerio, one of rio's favelas -- historically low-income communities that trace their origin to the legacy of slavery and the system of racial oppression in brazil that continues to this day. officials say military police were dispatched early tuesday to capture leaders of a suspected drug trafficking group when gunfire erupted. witnesses say police arrived shooting to kill. one resident, a 41-year-old woman, died after she was struck by a stray bullet. derê gomes, a professor and leader of the federation of rio de janeiro's favelas, spoke just after the killings. >> regardless of whether a person was involved in a crime, if it is proven these were executions, well, no one should have been executed. there is no death penalty in

brazil, right? i think we need to carry out a very serious and rigorous investigation to understand how these matters took place. amy: here in the united states, president biden marked the second anniversary of george floyd's murder by signing an executive order aimed at reforming policing. joining biden at wednesday's signing ceremony was george floyd's family, as well as that of breonna taylor, who was killed in 2020 when police executed a no-knock warrant at her apartment. >> this is a call to action based on a basic truth. public trust, as any cop will tell you, is the foundation of public safety. amy: biden's order directs federal agencies to revise use-of-force policies, banning tactics like chokeholds and restricting practices like no-knock warrants, while establishing a national database of police misconduct. biden's executive order came as a reform bill, the george floyd justice in policing act, remains stalled in the senate amid

republican opposition. and the goldman environmental foundation held its annual awards ceremony wednesday honoring the world's foremost grassroots environmental activists. this year's winners include nigeria's chima williams, an environmental lawyer who worked with communities to hold royal dutch shell accountable for the environmental impact of its oil spills in nigeria. other winners include ecuador's alexandra narvaez and alex lucitante, who together spearheaded an indigenous movement to protect cofán ancestral territory from gold mining. also winning a goldman award this year was nalleli cobo of los angeles, california, who in march 2020 at the age of 19 led a community coalition to permanently shut down an oil-drilling site in her community. cobo survived childhood asthma and a bout of cancer she blamed on toxins from the oil wells. >> what formally began in january 2011 as a grassroots campaign in south los angeles

fightinghe oilwell next-door operating on land owned by the archdiocese and in january 2022, the city of los angeles voting unanimously to phase out oil and gas wells. we won't stop here. we need to ensure our elected officials act on this. i fight because i believe everyone has a right to breathe clean air despite age, gender, ethnicity, socioeconomic status, or zip code. i fight so no future generation has a childhood like mine. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'amy goodman, joined by my co-host nermeen shaikh. hi, nermeen. nermeen: hi, amy. welce to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: vigils were held in uvalde, texas, wednesday, a day after an 18-year-old gunman shot dead 19 students and two teachers at the robb elementary school. it was the deadliest school shooting in the united states in

a decade. all of the victims were in the same fourth-grade classroom. on wednesday, cnn's anderson cooper interviewed angel garza, whose 10-year-old daughter amerie jo garza died in the attack. >> when i arrived on the scene, kids aside, they started bringing the kids out. i was aiding assistance. one little girl was covered in blood headed to. i thought she was injured. i asked what was wrong. she said she was ok, she was hysterical sing they shot her best friend, they killed her best friend, she's not breathing and she was trying to call the cops. i asked the little girl the name and she told me -- she said amerie. she just turned 10. her are they was on the 10th. may 10, two weeks ago. >> you had a party for her? >> we gathered family and had a dinner.

she just got a phone. she had been wanting one for so long and we finally got it for her. she tried to call the police. >> she actually tried to call? >> yes. i got confirmation students in her classroom that she was trying to call the authorities. i guess he just shot her. how do you look at this girl and shoot her? [sobbing] oh, my baby. how do you shoot my baby? i'm sorry. i'm sorry. amy: those are the words of angel garza, the father of amerie jo garza who was shot dead in her fourth grade classroom in uvalde, along with 18 classmates and two teachers.

amerie was just 10 years old. as mourning continues across the nation, republicans are facing increasing criticism for opposing any new gun control measures. on wednesday, texas gubernatorial candidate and former congressmember beto o'rourke interrupted a press conference held in uvalde by texas governor greg abbott. listen closely. >> i will pass the mic to lieutenant governor dan patrick. >> mr. abbott -- >> excuse me. excuse me. excuse me. sit down. you are out of line and an investment. -- and an embarrassment. >> you are doing nothing. >> this is not the place to talk this over. >> this is totally predictable. >>, you're out of line.

sir, you are out of line. please leave this auditorium. amy: after beto o'rourke was escorted out of the high school auditorium where the press conference was held, he spoke to reporters. >> the governor of the state of texas, the most powerful man in the state, chose to do nothing. kids were killed in their classrooms, told the parents he would do something and he did nothing. he came to my home town of el paso after 23 people were slaughtered and said he was going to do something. he did nothing. the only thing he did was make it easier to buy a gun. the only thing he did was make it easier to carry a gun in public. you bragged about the fact that would be no background checks, no training, no vetting whatsoever. amy: that was texas gubernatorial candidate beto o'rourke speaking on president wednesday. biden is expected to visit uvalde in the coming days.

to look more at the gun crisis in america, we are joined by robin lloyd, managing director of giffords, a gun violence prevention organization. in 2011, gabby giffords survived being shot in the head at a constituent event in a parking lot in tucson, arizona and has since become the leading gun control advocate. robin lloyd, welcome to democracy now! first, your response to what took place and the fact the u.s. is alone in the world for these mass shootings, schools or other places. the fact that of every 100 people in this country, there are 120 guns -- more civilian guns and this country than people. there's nothing like this anywhere in the world. if you can talk about this? >> i completely agree th is a uniquely american problem.

it is happening with such frequency and devastation it is on was hard to wrap your mind around. as you know, the tragedy in uvalde on tuesday was the third deadliest school shooting in this country -- third only to sandy hook elinor school shooting and the virginia tech shooting. it is also the fourth deadliest school shooting in texas, of the shootings in recent history in this country. four out of 10 have occurred in texas in recent years. there is something specific to united states and our lack of strong gun laws that we have across different states that allow this to keep happening in addition to the sheer number of firearms that exist and at this country at how easy it is to access them. nermeen: robin, could you explain why is it so easy to

access guns in the u.s.? also, who are the weapons manufacturers -- who is manufacturing these almost 400 million guns that are in civilian hands in the u.s.? >> so here in the united states, we don't have strong gun laws. at the federal level. there are very few updates to federal gun regulation in the past 20 plus years. the last significant push occurred in the early 1990's. at the state level, it is a different story. some states like new york have very strong gun laws, but they are still susceptible to the lax gun laws of their neighbors. it is very easy for firearms to travel across state lines and to get into the hands of those that should not have them. other states like texas have virtually no strong gun laws. texas, unfortunately, -- we

gigive a letter grade rating to every state and texas has an "f," just probably not surprising. as you heard in the clip from beto o'rourke earlier come all texas has done despite the tragic shootings that have occurred, el paso, sutherland springs, odessa just to name a few, they have only rolled back gun laws. they have actually made it easier to carry concealed weapons no questions asked, no training, no permit, no requirements whatsoever for anyone to carry a concealed firearm in texas. they have made it easier to do that. really, this is by design. the american gun lobby, which are supported by mayor kincannon manufacturers, is alive and well . the national rifle association has been weakened to

self-inflicted wounds of greed and his management of funds. another organizations at the national shooting sports foundation is alive and well. the national shooting sports foundation spends more on lobbying against gun violence prevention measures here in washington and the nra does. so there is -- they are the true face of the american corporate come lobby. quite frankly, there's a lot of money at stake. there has been incredible surge of gun sales in the past decade, largely driven by fear and conspiracy promulgated by the corporate come lobby here in united states. -- corporate gun lobby here in the united states and that has seen an increase in their bottom line. nermeen: could you explain how

this works? these gun manufacturers, do they fund these lobbyists who subsequently give money and funding to politicians or is it possible for corporations to directly engage with politicians? just the scale of the problem, the fact 90% of america support minimal restraints -- background checks, and yet that has not occurred. so the scale of the problem seems enormous. what needs to be done seems obvious. yet nothing happens. >> you hit the nail on the head. it is an incredible, concentrated historic lobbying effort bthe corporate gun lobby. manufacturers, other companies affiliated with the firearms industry, they pay into these trade associations and in those trade associations represent their viewpoint in washington

and state capitals all across the country. again, the nra has historically been the primary figure in that t really, the national shooting sports foundation nssf has taken up the mantle in recent years and self proclaimed face of the american gun industry. but you are right. the overwhelming majority of americans -- i'm talking about super majority, 85%, 95% plus people support doing something to address gun violence in this country by supporting meaningful gun safety measures. something like a background check with every gun se. that has been politicized over the past several years, but really what it is is saying no matter how you buy a gun, whether it is at a gun dealer or a gun show or online or meeting someone in a parking lot, you have to have a background check.

right now that does not exist in this country. it is left up to the states and thus we have a patchwork of laws that make it very easy for criminals and other people who cannot have the background check to get their hands on a firearm. there are very clear things we can do to make our country safer, but we need to have our elected leaders to have the political will and courage to make that happen. amy: why does it take political will and courage when the overall -- overwhelming number of americans, republicans and democrats, support gun control? this is the part that is so hard to understand come also with the nra at its lowest -- facing corruption charges, etc. pew research center support creating a federal gun database to track gun sales, overall, more than two thirds of people in this country support this. supporting banning hive capacity

ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, overall 64% of americans support this. 80 percent democrats and republicans. 83% of republicans, --, and of democrats, one third of republicans, row 63%. how is of the elected leaders can go against the electorate every singleear? close you are right. if we were talking about the numbers for any other issue area, it already would have happened. the facthey're talking about something that only has 66% of amican public supporting it versus 9 as some of our other issues like background checks, is really incredible. the fact of the matter is, there's a tremendous amount of money at stake. the gun lobby is in the business of selling more guns. period. that impacts their bottom line. at is hothey make their money. they have hoodwinked amican

politicians and some members of the public into believing t only way that we can protect ourselve is to arm ourselves. that is an absolute lie. it is a strategy based on fear, but it is a lie. more guns do not make us safer. in fact, they make us far less safe as we see play out time and time again and it is country on a day-to-day basis come to say nothing of the recent tragedies in the past 10 days alone. nermeen: could you speak specifically around the issues surrounding assault weapons -- assault rifles? you pointed out earlier that there is more that has been done at the staevel than at the federal level. 400 pieces of legislation signed into law in the states sce the 2012 massacr at sandy hook. and yet only eight states b

haveans on assault weapons. could you explain why that is the case? >> absolutely. the proliferation of assault weapons in this country is a relatively new phenomenon, something happened really in recent years because in part there was a federal weapons ban that went into effect in 1994 but it sunset in 2004. so this has been relatily recently we have seen the proliferation of assault weapons. in light of a federal ban, states have taken up the charge. as you noted, seven states and the district of columbia currently ban assault weapons. but in many other places, you know, the horse is out of the barn so to speak. so many assault weapons in this country, it seems like it might be hard to address what to do with them now. i think there is varyindegrees -- various proposals that can address that.

it certainly can be done, but there is a reality we have so many assault weapons already in circulation and i think there is some reluctance by politicians whether they should have it or not to do more. but we absolutely can do more on assault weapons. i want to be very, very clear. but it is absolutely driven by marketing come again, by the gun lobby. this is the way for them to militarize civilians. if you see some of their marketing campaigns, they use phrases like time to get your man card and they show civilians dressed as a soldier or a law enforcement person in tactical gear with an assault weapon. they have really made it seem like it is the cool thing to do. the reality is, assault weapons are readily deadly. they are designed to kill as many people as possible in a short amount of time given their

firepower, their accuracy, and the ability to access extended magazines. amy: robin lloyd, thank you for being with us, managing director of giffords, a gun violence prevention organization. when we come back, we will talk to an australian cat activist. australia, country of gun lovers. how over a series of days after a massacre that took place several decades ago, to have a complete paradigm shift and change all of its laws. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: a rendition of bob dylan's "knockin' on heaven's door" by scottish musician ted christopher in tribute to the 1996 dunblane primary school shooting in scotland that took the lives of 16 children and one teacher. it was the deadliest mass shooting in u.k. histo.

after the shooting, the u.k. changed it's gun laws. there hasn't been a school shooting since. this is democracy now! i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. we continue to look at the school shooting in uvalde, texas, joined by rebecca peters, international arms control advocate and the former director of the international action network on small arms. she led the campaign to reform australia's gun laws after the 1996 port arthur massacre when a gunman shot dead 35 people at a café. australia then cracked down on gun violence can outlined automatic and semiautomatic rifles. more than 600 40,000 weapons were turned into authorities in a nationwide buyback. rebecca peters is joining us from guatemala. thank you so much for being with us. i feel like we keep avenue back after all of these massacres but it is so important because there was complete paradigm shift in australia, country were so many did not think it was possible. talk about what happened in

1996, the horror of the port arthur massacre, but then how the country responded. >> thanks, amy. thinking back, we had back then the situation -- it was similar but not as bad as in the united states. we did have mass shootings about once a year. we had some kind of a mass shooting. semi automatic rifles were available in some states. the laws very state-by-state in australia as in america. we also had a similar sort of standoff whereost of theajor political parties were intimidated by the gun lobby, whh said whichever one of you moves to strengthen the gun laws, we will come after you in the election. it was a similar kind of scenario in that way, although we never had the very high rates of gun violence -- not as high because we did have basic level of gun control was higher.

what happened in 1996 was this massacre was so enormous and in took place in a tourist location where a lot of people have been for holidays and honeymoons and people, because it was a tourist location, the victims came from ever state and territory in the nation. so every parliament had a constituent or more who were affected directly by this massacre. we had just had a new conservative prime minister elected, so i guess he thought he had a few years ahead of him before he had to face another election and also -- i mean, enough is enough. we had too much of this. what he was able to do was he called the states and territories together and said, i am going to fix this. the amazing breakthrough is both potical parts agreed to support the changes. and that left the gun lobby with

nowhere to go. so very quickly, also, the policy recommendations, it had already been done by us, research institutes -- it was pretty clear what the changes were that were needed. in 10 days, we got an agreement that all the states and territoriewould chge their laws to a much higher standard and they did. that meantutline semiautomatic -- outline semiautomatic rifles, much higher standard background checks and licensing that was required, including the proof of a legitimate reason to have the sort of gun you want to buy and registration of all firearms so if someone displays some kind of behavior that suggests they should not have a firearm, that firearm can be taken away and also so you can track the accumulation of arsenals and a range of other things as well.

but basically, the laws became pretty much uniform across the country. and as you mentioned earlier, as part of the ban on semiautomatics, those guns were bought back so they were no longer in circulation. because the law changed at the same time, sometimes there were buybacks but the law does not change so it is kind of like mopping theloor wle the tap is sll on. if you changed a lot lot the same time, those guns cannot be replaced with similar weapons. the result has been a spectacular success. we did not have another mass shooting incident for almost 25 years. we generally have much lower rates of gun violence. and also, a lower rate of fear. we don't think at all about the possibility of being murdered as go about our daily lives in australia. nermeen: rebecca, a couple of things that might be apart from

the fact is you mentioned that australia even prior to these changes had much fewer mass shootings than the u.s., could you talk about the relative strength of the gun lobby there, whether the electoral system in australia so dependent on funding from lobbyists and corporations, number one, and second, that australia had nothing like the sond amendment. there is no constitutional right in australia to bear arms. what impact that might have had? >> that's right. we have never had the idea -- well, there are atralians who believe there is a right to have a gun, but that was never legally acceptable or even socially acceptable, really. in fact, with the new laws, most ofhem say specifically

ownership of guns is our privilege that is subject to the overriding conrn for public safety. so that is really clear that public safety trumps individual ownership of weapons. and that was a huge advantage w had, of course. and as you mention, it is true we had a gun lobby that was cranky a threatening and had sueeded in some cases in intimidating are probably contributing to the defeat of some electoral candidates, but they did not have the power that the american gun lobby has because our electoral system -- well, parliamentary system, but also the role of money and litics although there is still complaints in australia there is too much money in politics. the ability to so outright by the politicians and the policies you want is much less in

australia. it is true we had those distinct advantages before this took place. amy: very quickly, if you can talk about how the u.s. exports this violence around the world? they u.s. been by far the largest small armsxporter in the world. >> the u.s. is the largest producer come the largest exporter both illegal and legal. you often think of legal exports of weapons, but the trafficking of guns from the u.s. because of the loose regulation, especially of the southern border states, means the u.s. is also the biggest exporter of illegal weapons. and that means the violence problems that occur, especially in latin america, are directly traceable in large part to the american production of weapons.

so it is why all of us in the re of the world have a big interest in america doing something about it's just unbelievably lax regation of weapons. amy: rebecca peters, thank you for being with us, international arms control advocate and the former director of the international action network on small arms. lead the campaign to reform australia's gun laws after the port arthur massacre. she is speaking to us from guatemala. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. tuesday's mass shooting at an 11 or school took place in the small south texas city of uvalde. 90% of robb elementary school students are latinx. the area is also heavily militarized border zone in south texas. official site was a member of the border patrols tactical unit known as bortac that shot and killed the shooter.

this is cbp del rio sector chief jason owens. >> this is their home. they had children that go to this school. any time a call like this goes out, it is all hands on deck. they're going to respond, even more so when it impacts their home like this did. we did have over 80 four patrol agents -- some came from off-duty and some came from training and they all responded so collaboratively, everyone came together. we had a contingent of our bortac team make entry and confront the suspect and ultimately bring this to a conclusion. amy: some of the parent's can to find their children at the school after the massacre wherefrom mixed-immigration status families. thdepartment of homeland security issued a statement that -- "the site of the tragedy in uvalde, texas is a protected area. to the fullest eent possle, immigration and customs

enforcement and customs and border patrol will not conduct immigration enforcement activities." this comes after ice deported a woman last year who survived the 2019 el paso massacre and reportedly helped prosecutors in their case against the shooter. they still deported her. for more, we are joined by cesar cuauhtemoc garcia hernandez, who was born and raised in mcallen, texas, about a four-hour drive to uvalde and author of "crimmigration law and migrating to prison america's obsession with locking up immigrants." welcome to democracy now! the horror of what took place in uvalde, place your very familiar with, and the fact people started calling for this immediately. you have to say ice is not going to pick people up, that parents and grandparents come if they go looking for their kids, they will not check their immigration status and then the federal government did issue this

yesterday. but talk about the issue larger. it is also a community of latinx population that has lived there for decades. >> glad to see the department of homeland security issued that statement, but i hope the department of homeland security and border patrol agents specifically who are on the ground in uvalde are being much more proactive than simply relying on a press release, three paragraph press release published on the dhs website. i hope no one is expecting the family's, commuted members were directly affected this latest massacre in united states are tuning into the dhs website. it is incumbent on the leadershipn the uvalde border patrol station, community that has a border patrol station in town, so i'm not surprised to learn some of those officers or many of those officers did respond.

they are, after all, federal law enforcement officers in an incident like this it appears that officers from all units of government responded. nermeen: could you talk specifically about the role of ice here? >> the governor did reference the home a security investigation, component of ice, involved in the investigation. it is unclear to me what extent they are involved in the investigation but more concerning question for me is moving forward, what happens in the days and weeks and potentially years ahead as law enforcement officials and community members try to unravel exactly what happened that led to this massacre? in 2019, the shooting in the

walmart in el paso, it is really something that was a concern because there again, we had a heavily latino community in the state of texas. in that instance, we see at least one individual who survived the el paso shooting was trying to cooperate was in fact cooperating with the local prosecutors who are putting together their case against the shooter, was eventually deported and deported as a result of a fairly ordinary traffic violation, a busted taillight it turns out. which led from a local running with the police to being handed off to border patrol and was sued out of the united states. there is absolutely no reason to

believe that is impossible to happen in a community like volley. most of the people who lived in the community are u.s. citizens, any of them have -- many of them have had their families in this area for generations, but this is still a texas community. about 10% of the population of the city of volte appears to have been born outside the united states. no reason to doubt there might be some individuals who were at the school, students were otherwise, who's immigration status is not solid and may benefit from the kind of the said that congress has created specifically for victims of crime. and i hope the many elected officials who are currently offering their thoughts and

prayers will soon, if not already, turn to also offering assistance in navigating what is always a complicated legal process to help individuals who may be affected by tuesday shooting with having the legal resources -- immigrati law resources that congress has created. amy: there are serious questions abt why authorities did not move any faster as this man killed -- this 18-year-old killed 19 kids and their two teachers. parents were outside clamoring to get in and it now looks like authorities were holding them back, that the man was inside for something like 40 minutes to an hour. i wanted to ask you about this story of what happens to immigrants who help. in new york, get this wearable subway shooting, though no one died was to "the new york times" had a piece about an i document

a woman who helped. the next day, frank james walked by freeman upgrading surveillance cameras at a hardware store in the east village of manhattan and flagged down police officers. the authorities have credited all four helping to capture the shooter stuff this is the key part of the piece, please have credited immigrants and undocumented who fled with helping to capture the man in new york. they now seek relief from the u.s. immigration system as they seek recent set-aside for victims, witnesses, and a performance who helped on enforcement and are determining whether they can access humanitarian parole or political asylum and goes to what happened in el paso. a woman who survived and helped the police was the deported. your final comment?

>> republicans in texas have often led the way in describing my grades as outsiders who have no attachments, no commitment to the communities in which they reside. what we see over and over our migrants are just as committed to the communities in which they live as the rest of us are. i hope the governor and the attorney general of texas you have made their name in recent years by attacking migrants in texas and across united states will really put their resources -- their offic's resources making sure any and all individuals who have useful information are protected legally by these very laws that congress has enacted specifically to protect survivors of crimes like murder, like full onus assault, both of which are high on my list of possibilities for exactly the

kind of -- describing the kind of situation that occurred here. and if they don't come true, it is up to federal law enforcement agencies like the fbi, the department of homeland security -- both of which are authorized to assist individuals through what is called the new visa process. after president and the secretary mayorkas will step in if the state of texas does not boast of amy: cesar cuauhtemoc garcia hernandez , thank you for being with us, professor of law at ohio state university. coming up, we speak to patrick cockburn about ukraine. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "ivy" by the ukranian folk and country singer sasha boole. this is democracy now! i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. in ukraine, fierce fighting continues to rage on the besieged industrial city of severodonetsk where sustained russian artillery attacks this week i killed at least six civilians. russian forces are advancing on the city of southeastern donetsk region. the war began three months this week but there appears to be little progress on peace talks. we are joined by patrick cockburn, award-winning journalist and columnist.

his recent piece for counterpunch is headlined "london and washington are being propelled by hubris -- just as putin was." welcome back to democracy now! explain. >> this waregan with arrogance by vladimir putin who thought is newly equipped army, which wasn't that big in fact, would be greeted by the ukrainian population, that the ukrainian government would collapse, that the ukrainian army would surrender. we know the exact opposite happened. now what is so worrying is i think you see hubris on the other side with the u.s. and britain and other nato states, to somewhat less degree, the

ukrainian government in a triumphant move are colluding over the very real russian defeat in northern ukraine. the policy objective has changed from defending ukraine to a rather sort of messy objective, which sometimes is regime change in moscow or it ifighti until crimea is returned -- not to the situation before when the war began, but the situation before 2014. the russians will never give it up so this is an endless war. i spent a lot of time in syria and the middle east, afghanistan, iraq. the coming more and more like

the syrian situation. ukraine is becoming the arena for a war between russia and in the distance the u.s., nato powers. and this war -- there is no reason this war should end. and while this war goes on, the whole country gets devastated. the infrastructure gets destroyed. millions of refugees flee. this is more and more like syria was after011. but i think this sort of vagueis triumphantm is obscuring just how dangerous and how bad the situation has become. nermeen: your assessment seems similar in fact to what kissinger said, basically, "pursuing the war beyond that

point" that is to say the point of attempting to go to the status quo anti-, that that should not be an attempt, that it would not be about the freedom of ukraine but a new war against russia ielf. could you explain what incentive given that ukraine was in effect invaded, what incentive do the ukrainians have to give up? and equally, what incentive does russia have come having carried out, as you say, this audacious invasion? >> i do think anyone is suggesting for a moment that the ukrainians give up in the sense of srender. you know, they have heroically defended independence. the russian independence really failed -- invasi really failed in the first few days. rather do you say we should retu to the status quo and at guaraees tokrai with

russia is still going to be there. to bring this war to an end, which in independent ukraine capable of defending itself. once you go beyond that, you actually are acting against the interest of ukraine and you put ukraine in the position of an all-out war with russia, which is a greater power is not going to go away. and that is why i think you will end up with a war similar to the wars one witnessed in the released from bolivia to afghanistan in which the country, which is -- each country has in turn been devastated and has never recovered. nermeen: patrick, what about the status of possible negotiations with zelenskyy saying earlier this week he could only negotiate with putin

>> well, you know, if there are negotiations, it will probably end up like that. the worst -- there were serious negotiations somewhat over a month ago in turkey and which the ukrainia made serious offers that the whole issue of ukraine should be pushed forward 15 years and should -- would n have to be resolved immediately. that means they don't have to accept they have lost crimea. sorry, the whole issue of crimea should be pushed forward 15 years. so that means i don't have to discuss or give a crimea and the russians don't have to say will never leave. there is room for negotiation's there. which one has to say the ukrainians are not off the map at the moment and both sides

think they can still make gain on the ground. amy: finally, patrick cockburn, do you think the weapons flow from the u.s. and the west to ukraine is exacerbating, prolonging the war? >> well, you know, the ukrainians need weapons. then people try to defend -- just a wish between defensive and offensive weapons. there isn't a great dividing line between the two. ukrainians should bermed but then one gets to the situation of what will happen if there are lots of intake -- amy: 10 seconds. >> the problem is this war is becoming another endless war like we have seen in

afanistan, iraq, and syria, and elsewhere. and all over the world. most war don't end with the decisive victory. if it becomes an endless work, then ukraine will be devastated. amy: we have to leave it there. patrick cockburn,ñçñqñqñqñqññññ? e