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tv   France 24  LINKTV  June 16, 2022 5:30am-6:01am PDT

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months time. ♪ anchor: these are the. special take from rwanda was canceled. british prime minister boris johnson has admitted the government may need to change the law. >> we are trying to make a distinction between legal pathways to the u.k..
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we don't want people to come here in fear of their lives. we want them to do it legally and safely. therapist -- they are risking people's lives. if we have to change the laws to help us, we may have to. anchor: joe biden includes saudi arabia on his itinerary, looking to reset the relationship. biden has come under fire from some of his own party. u.s. intelligence agencies concluded mohammad bin salman on murdered the journalist. the kingdom denies this. ukraine says its military is trying to get civilians out.
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russia is getting closer to taking over an eastern city as it tightens its grip on the region. forces destroyed the last bridge out, the one that connects it to a lake -- neighboring cities. the french nato will do all it can to end russia's invasion of the rain but conceding no one knows what the conflict has in store. he is beginning a tour of eastern europe that will take him to moldova. the world food program says it is suspending aid because it does not have enough money. widespread hunger and starvation are being compounded by high food prices links to the war. those are the headlines. the news continues after inside story. >> some people believe in a
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purpose bigger them them. -- then them. they put themselves out there to make changes. >> something should not have taken this long that we recognize women's contribution. >> we have this culture, we have to change this culture. the immigrants are good, hard-working people. these refugees are terrified. anchor: the u.k. is said to
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deport asylum-seekers to rwanda, a move described -- this is inside story. come here and we will send you to rwanda. that's the message coming from out of the united kingdom. most of the people who were supposed to be deported were able to avoid the first flight. a request to halt the flight on grounds was rejected by the u.k. court of appeal.
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>> the judge gave a green light for the first flight of refugees and migrants. and includes people who have escaped war in afghanistan and syria, being flown more than 6000 kilometers away. >> they have suffered incredibly. they have tortured themselves. they are tired at the end of their tether. they are finding it incredibly traumatizing. further deportation is absolutely terrifying. >> boris johnson says a deportation strategy will undermine smuggling networks and refugees from making dangerous journeys. the united nations refugee agency hit back, saying that human rights record is under scrutiny. the u.k. is shirking
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responsibility. >> this is all wrong. it's the foundation of the right to asylum on a country's territory, especially a signatory to the convention and has the institutions to deal with that. >> in april, the secretary visited to finalize a project and potentially send tens of thousands of people there. it includes a payment of $150 million to the rwandan government. so far this year, refugees have made the crossing and 28,000 lost here. in november, 27 people drowned when a didi deflated and had to be rescued from shipping lanes. some of those who risked their
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lives would leave on the first flight on tuesday, but, there may not have been many on it. a series of individual legal challenges mean only a few will leave. the government continues to face pressure from activist, rights groups and unions who insist the move is unlawful. anchor: let's bring our guests. an executive secretary of a social justice organization in rwanda. the secretary general of the european council on refugees, warm welcome to you all. first, we're going to talk to a
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spokesperson who joins us from geneva. i want to ask you about the remarks by the u.n. high commissioner for refugees. he said the president this creates is catastrophic. what kind of precedent does this plan set? >> this sets a worrying precedent. we are living in a world where it's some of the most under resourced. they are the ones taking on a disproportionate load of responsibility.
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countries are protecting refugees and have capacities to process asylum claims, they are shucking their obligations. the other countries doing their bid. it's worrying from a legal perspective, ethical and moral as well. anchor: let me ask you about the fact that there is so much concern. does this plan not contradict the u.k. obligation as a signatory for the international refugee convention? >> in the absence of safeguard
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and standards, what they do is shift responsibilities for asylum. in our view they are contrary to the law and responsibilities that need to be met. refugees are not commodities. they are human beings. they shouldn't have to be transferred for other countries. these are people who are afforded international protection if they are refugees. some of them have left very traumatic experiences. no one chooses to be a refugee. anchor: people are saying this
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is an effort to exploit asylum. tell us about concerns you and your colleagues have about offshore and? that is what these arrangements are. >> they go against the spirit in the letter of the law as we have mentioned. we need a more humane approach in terms of dealing with this issue. we are talking about a limited number of movements. there is a way to deal with provisions when you have a fair and efficient asylum process when someone who is in need of protection, who is a refugee and who isn't, that's a manageable way to present this prevent risky journeys.
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this is not really going to be the result. we are undermining legal obligations. placing refugees at risk. at the same time, you're going to force people to take risky journeys to safety. anchor: you so much for joining us. -- thank you so much for joining us. let me turn to you. i want to take a step back and talk about the human beings who are being impacted by all of this. many of these refugees, migrants, asylum-seekers were traumatized. as someone who works directly with them, how scared are these refugees and migrants facing the possibility that they might get sent to rwanda? >> we have been talking to them for the last couple of weeks.
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it would be impossible to understate. these people are victims. five of them are victims of trafficking and torture, they have also offered horrible things. they have seen their families killed. one of them has been diagnosed with ptsd. some of them being in detention reminds them of when they were locked away and tortured. they are terrified of being sent to rwanda. of the repercussions. and what's going to happen to their families. two of them are married and they feel like they will be abandoning. it represents the confident they
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have no connection to. for them, it's incredibly traumatic. we are talking about people who already have extreme physical and mental scars than previous experiences. this plan is absolutely brutal. it can't be taken back. in court they said if in the future is found this plan is unlawful, we will bring them back. we can't just say sorry for that. it's impossible. anchor: there have been many british officials who have stated on numerous occasions that offshoreing refugees does not contravene the u.n. refugee convention. there are many rights, activists
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and advocates out there who say that is simply not the case. is this action a contravention of international law? >> we would say it certainly is. we are in agreement with the authority. article 33, the prohibition to send people back to a place where their lives are at risk. it may be the case given the asylum system -- people don't get protection and are sent back to countries where they are at risk. there is also article 31 which prohibits states that our signatures to the convention from discriminating against people on the basis of the manner of their arrival.
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this policy in general, this particular deal appears to contravene that part of international refugee law which says people should not be treated differently compared to how they arrive. it is not illegal to cross borders to seek texan. we would underline at large majority of those arriving across the channel are found to be in need of international protection. it's a group of people needing and should not be penalized. anchor: test catherine just mentioned, the u.n. has said rwanda does not have the capacity to process these asylum claims. there is a risk some migrants could be returned to countries for which they fled. what is your response to that? >> thanks a lot.
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it depends on which criteria is best on making that analysis, but for the last 20 years, one has been sending refugees and when they came up, africans from north africans have been mistreated. anchor: many officials have said
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it's a safe country, they are welcoming to refugees. from your point of view, it's embryonic is being able to process this many asylum sequels. do you think they will be able to get to the point where they can process this, and why was rwanda selected? >> there are a number of different factors to mention. we know the u.k. government itself has noted that there are questions about the respect for human rights in rwanda. that is something that should be taken into account. the reason a country enters into this kind of deal is for the benefits they receive. there has been a lot of
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publicity about the amount of money that will be provided, and it's also a country with a leader that lacks -- likes to act as a provocateur and go against the grain. that may be one of the reasons why this country in particular has decided to enter into a deal when so many other countries refused to do so because they don't want to take on the responsibilities of a country like the u.k. which has international obligations. these kind of agreements, as well as the money have a certain political leverage because it creates dependency on the country hosting people. we have seen that in the arrangements between the eu and eu -- which gives a lot of
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leverage to a political leader who is eber -- able to put pressure on europe and extract concessions because of hosting a far greater number of people. those are the factors involved. i would underline as well as human rights considerations, one of the objections to the deal is the cost. it looks massively expensive which is being learned from the use of this kind of model in australia. anchor: let me ask you about the legal avenues left right now when it comes to challenging this plan. if the opinion of the next judicial review would be this policy is flawed, would those who may have been transferred to be eligible to come back to the u.k.? >> yes.
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the important hearing is the one in july. if the court decides there isn't, yes, you can bring them back. the extreme damage that would have been done is concerning. a lot of people who are returned to rwanda will kill themselves. i don't know where that would leave us. the damage by deportation is not something we can ever take back. it is very hard for us to understand why the government is doing this while there are other things we can do. it would be much more humane and effective if we gave things to refugees.
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anchor: i want to ask you about the fact rwandan officials said they have a proud history of welcoming those in need and are welcoming 130,000 refugees. there are a lot of advocates out there saying that >> as i was saying, rwanda has a method.
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they have been taking care of. coming back to what you're saying, [indiscernible] we are still in the dark. rhonda is safe. it has created opportunities. [indiscernible]
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rwanda has opportunities and systems to be able to support the process. the government has the right to get into any partnership in a country to process asylum-seekers. it does not mean the process has ended. the process will continue. people shouldn't create mountains out of this. anchor: catherine, how concerned are you about the possibility a
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refugee who faces persecution could be refused asylum? >> according to the memorandum of understanding that is the basis for this agreement, we should notice one of the problems. on an international agreement. it's in the form of the memorandum of understanding. in that memorandum of understanding, there were points that mentioned rwanda will be able to send people on words. people who did not receive a positive decision, may be sent back to their countries or to other countries. there is the risk. as i said earlier, there is a
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strong risk that if somebody gets a negative decision in an asylum system which is under construction, that they are sent food. the other question is this part of the agreement that potentially allows them to get some somewhere else, is there a risk that there is another country cooperating with rwanda where they will face other issues? it's not a q question of what or assessment is over wanda. we defer on that. it's about the fact that u.k. has international obligations and responsibilities. it's undermining international refugee law, but international
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law more generally by entering this kind of agreement. it encourages other countries in the rich world to undermine international law and to attempt to circumvent their own obligations. anchor: boris johnson says this will break the criminal model for gangs. is this going to deter migration? people are still risking lives. >> unfortunately, i think it's clear that people are still crossing and the british government has tried a number of policies and none of them have had any effect at all. why should it succeed when any of it fails? there are other ways.
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if the government was so sure there would be people smugglers, why wouldn't they try something else or new? there are other ways to do it that would be more effective and humane. anchor: we have run out of time. thank you so much to all of our guests. thank you for watching. you can see the program any time by visiting our website, and for further discussion go to our facebook page. you can also join the conversation on twitter. our handle is that a.j. inside story. bye for now.
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- hey, i'm valerie june. comin' up on "reel south." - [woman] it became this place at was a safe haven for black famies to bui a comnity - [verie] th histori african-erican town is engfed by iustr - [wom] yove got 1 dustrialacilities and tremendous potential for incidents and releases every day. - [verie] anone man refuses to leave his home and his ancestral community. - [stacey] my relatives are direct descendants of theeople wh unded movill freelave [valerie discer "mosslle" up nexon el south.

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