06/17/22 06/17/22 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> i would have laid my body across the road before i would have let the vice president overturn the 2020 election on the basis of that historical precedent.

amy: in the third public hearing, the house select committee investigating the january6 insurrection showed how donald trump knew his plan to overturn the 2020 election was illegal but pushed vice president mike pence to do it anyway with backing from attorney john eastman. witnesses testifying on thursday included the retired conservative judge michael luttig. we will bring you highlights of the hearing and we will stay on at the capitol to speak with poor people's campaign leaders liz theoharis and bishop william barber about this saturday's massive moral march on washington. we are not trying to get back to normal. normal is not what we need. transformation is what we need. we already know truth and love and justice win.

our job is to run all the way to the finish line. amy: at first, the u.k. home secretary has approved the extradition of wikileaks founder julian assange to the united states, he faces up to 175 years in prison if convicted of violating the espionage act for publishing classified documents exposing u.s. war crimes in iraq and afghanistan. we'll get an update from julian assange's brother. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. u.k. home secretary priti patel has approved the extradition of wikileaks founder julianssange to the united states. assange faces up to 175 years in prison in the united states if convicted of violating the espionage act for publishing classified documents exposing

u.s. war crimes in iraq and afghanistan. wikileaks said today that assange would appeal today's ruling. his attorney condemned the u.k. for extraditing assange to a country which once considered assassinating him. in statement, wikileaks said -- "it was in priti patel's power to do the right thing. instead she will forever be remembered as an accomplice of the united states in its agenda to turn investigative journalism into a criminal enterprise." jameel jaffer of the knight first amendment institute at columbia university tweeted -- "the assange indictment is a dagger at the throat of press freedom. the biden administration should drop the prosecution, as press freedom groups have repeatedly asked it to do." we will speak with julian assange's brother after headlines. the house select committee investigating the january 6 insurrection has revealed donald

trump knew his plan to overturn the 2020 election was illegal but pushed his vice president mike pence to take part anyway in what the committee has described as an attempted coup. but pence refused to take part after trump asked him to unilaterally reject the electoral college results on january 6. the committee also revealed the architect of trump's plan, the attorney john eastman, also knew the plan was illegal but pushed it anyway. eastman later sought a pardon for himself. witnesses testifying on thursday included michael luttig, a retired judge and one of the most influential right-wing legal experts in the country. he described trump as a clear and present danger to american democracy. judge luttig warned that trump and allies will also attempt to overturn the 2024 election if they lose -- and this time they

may succeed. we will have more on the house hearing later in the show. the senate armed services committee has endorsed an $847 billion military budget. that's $45 billion more than requested by president biden. democratic senator jack reed, the chair of the committee said some of the extra money is needed to replenish weapons sent to ukraine. there is, however, a push in congress by some progressives to shrink the pentagon's budget. earlier this week, democratic representatives barbara lee and mark pocan introduced the people over pentagon act of 2022 which calls for cutting $100 billion from the military budget. in statement, congressmember lee said -- "the amount of money the defense industry convinces congress to spend each year doesn't protect us from real threats like climate change, pandemics, or cyber-attacks.

it only lines contractors' pockets. just imagine for once if we led the world in funding peace and not wars." ukraine has moved a step closer to joining the european union. earlier today, the euroan commsion rommendedkraine, asell as molva, be granted candidate status for eu membership. this comes a day after the presidents of france, germany, italy, and romania traveled to ukraine to meet with ukraine's president volodymyr zeenskyy. earlier today, french president emmanuel macron said he would consider traveling to moscow to negotiate with russia's vladimir putin if certain conditions were met. macron last met with putin two weeks before the invasion. the world trade organization has agreed to temporarily waive some intellectual property rights on covid vaccines but no agreement was reached on lifting patent monopolies on covid treatments

and tests. hundreds of international organizations including oxfam and amnesty international criticized the final deal saying it will make it harder for developing countries to respond to the pandemic. this is nick dearden, director of global justice now. >> what we have got from e world ade organization his mornina support excuse for a waiver. it is nowhat we have been calling for for the last 18 months. we are not happy but there is one tng, iteally is proof the big pharma monopolist system did not help deals with the cover pandemic, did not hel deal with equitably, most important. it drove back inequality. amy: at least 2000 cows have died in recent days in kansas due to excessive heat and humidity. much of the united states has been facing a brutal heatwave this week as more 1800 temperature records have been shattered from california to michigan.

more than 100 million people have been advised to stay indoors due to the excessive heat. europe and much of south asia are also facing record heatwaves this week. ucla climate scientist daniel swain said more extreme heat events will keep occurring if global emissions are not slashed. >> obviously, the long run, the only solution is to bring carbon emissions -- amy: president biden has approved a major disaster declaration for montana after massive floods forced the closing of yellowstone national park. heavy rain storms and melting snowcaps led the yellowstone river to swell by more than two feet over its previous high. the raging waters swept away homes, bridges, and roads. new research shows temperatures in parts of the arctic are warming at a rate seven times faster than the global average. this according to the journal

scientific reports. parts of the arctic are nearly five degrees warmer than a decade ago. the warming is expected to lead to more extreme weather in north america, europe, and asia. in other climate news, a group of environmental organizations have sued the biden administration over the issue of more than 3500 permits to drill for oil and gas on public lands in new mexico and wyoming. the lawsuit says the drilling could result in 600 million metric tons of greenhouse gas emissions. jeremy nichols of the group wildearth guardians said, "the biden administration is literally drilling away the climate." the nation's largest baby formula manufacturer abbott nutrition has been forced to pause operations at its plant in sturgis, michigan, due to massive flooding and after heavy rains overwhelmed the city's drainage system. the plant is expected to stay closed for a few weeks. the plant had just recently reopened after being ordered closed in february due to contamination.

the plant's closure led to a nationwide shortage of baby formula, which still exists in parts of the united states today. israeli forces have shot dead three palestinians and injured 10 others during a raid in the city of jenin in the occupied west bank. al jazeera reports 30 israeli military vehicles took part in the operation. last month, al jazeera reporter shireen abu akleh was shot dead while covering another israeli raid in jenin. earlier this week, "the washington post" became the latest news outlet to conclude she was shot by israeli forces despite israel's initial denial. meanwhile, an israeli politician has sparked outcry after publicly saying he wishes there was a way to get rid of all palestinians. israel's deputy religious affairs minister matan kahana said in a televised speech -- "if there was a button i could press that would take all the arabs and put them on a train to switzerland, i would."

and in news from egypt, the imprisoned egyptian activist alaa abd el-fattah is approaching his 11th week on hunger strike to protest the harsh conditions he is held under at cairo's tora prison. earlier this week, one of alaa's sisters, saana seif, described her brother's dire situation. >> i brother is slowly dying in a prison cell, but he wants to live. heisses his job, misses his son, and on sunday, my sister visited him in prison. when she saw him, she was shocked. she has not been able to eat since. the effect was such she decided to hunger strike in solidarity. she told me, i have to use my bo to show what is happening. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. u.k. home secretary priti patel has approved the extradition of wikileaks founder julian assange

to the united states. assange faces up to 175 years in prison here in the u.s. if convicted of violating the espionage act for publishing classified documents exposing u.s. war crimes in iraq and afghanistan. wikileaks has announced that assange will appeal today's ruling. in a statement, wikileaks said -- "julian did nothing wrong. he has committed no crime and is not a criminal. hes a journalist and a publisher and he is being punished for doing his job." just before we went to air today, assange's spoke. >> extradition order rests on a decision to reverse the initial outcome, decision by the high court to accept assurances that are severely flawed that amnesty international called that decision a travesty. that is what the exhibition order is resting on.

we are going to raise points that have come up since the original extradition hearing back in 2020. crucially, one of the most important developments is the revelation the cia plotted to assassinate julian while he was in the ecuadorian embassy, kidnap him and rendition him and was exploring poisoning him. this is known to the home secretary, but she signed it off anyway. we will be raising it on appeal. amy: that is julian assange's wife and attorney stella morris. we are now going in new york city to gabriel shipton, filmmaker and julian assange's brother. welcome back to democracy now! can you rpond first to the home secretary's ruling? >> this ruling says u.k.

gornment agrees that a journalist, a publisher can be taken from the u.k., extradited from the u.ksolely f doing their job. this is a huge -- usually dangerous precedent being set in the u. for journalists and publishers there. this just goes to ow this is a once-in-lifetime fight for press freedom. it is ching closer -- this i coming to e u.s. the u.k. once julian extradited. th rolled against julian in favor of the u.s. doj to extradite julian. i think people can no longer rely on the u.k. government or the u.k. judiciary to protect journalism, that people in the usa need to stand up for press

freedoms and fight this case. amy: a group of more than 300 doctors from around the world are calling on patel to block the extradition. she chose not to. saying he suffered a mini stroke last october, his overall health is continuing to deteriorate they write, extradition of a person of such compromised health moreover is medically and ethically unacceptable. can you talk about his condition and will you appeal? >> yes, that's right, julian had a mini stroke at the end of october. he has been detained in the u.k. one way or another for the last 12 years. if you can imagine what that is like, julian as not se a blade of grass in years. he haseen in a maximum-security prison f the last tee years, this endless snake and c is been put through. he is not a viont criminal.

he is not convicted of any crime. he is an innocent man being held in prison slow -- solely at the request of the u.s. d. this is wearing him down. he has been worn down over these years. thu.n. special repertoire found he was suffering the effects of psychological torture. it is so sad to see the julian i know from years ago and the julian that i have seen -- amy: the significance of what it was that he released in 2010? and has continued to release information over the years, even when he was, what, in political exile in the ecuadorian consulate in london. >> yes, that's right. so he has published evidence of war crimes torturi and

guantanamo bay, government corruption, even the collateral murder video that is world famous. the publisher that is being pushed and the situation is not a criminal. none of these pele that have committed these crimes there's much evidence for come it is the publisher in the situation that is receiving the punishment. "the new yk times" and "the washgton post", "the guardian" they publish similar information and none of them are facing the punishment that julian is. we are going to appeal this ruling by priti patel and apply the hh court in the u.k. and then the european board of human rights. are going to fight this but with this ruling, it is saying u.k. government, they want to move this forward and extradite julian to the usa. amy: finally, gabriel, the issue

of the united states assuring britain if it extradite's julian , he would be able to serve any sentence imposed on him by a u.s. court in australia. what does this mean? especially given the new administration in australia, the new prime minter? >> well, that is a tree obligation available to everyone who is convicted in the usa. it sorta means nothing because by the time julian gets extraded to the usa, the court proceedings will be at least two years. if he appeals to the supreme court, looking at an eig to 10 year process. if you add that onto the 12 years he has already been detained, that is 20 years that julian has had no freedom whatsoever. three of those years in a maximum-security prison. amy: but it is interesting what the new australian prime

minister has had in the past. can you tell u >> in oppotion,e has said enough is enough in regard to julian being kept in prison he said, i don't see what purpose it served julian by keeping julian in prison. that was before the election. after he was elected as prime minister, he stood by those statements and he said foreign policy -- not all foreign policy is conducted with a bullrn. that is a very significant departure from previous government statements where they said this is a matter for the u.k. courts, julian is receiving assistance now. he has signaled this is a foreign policy issue and by saying it is not foreign policy conducted with a bullhorn, it suggests there are some negotiations happening behind closed doors. julian is very popular i

australia. there was a poll in decembernd 70% -- 71% of those polled agreed with the statement that julian should be brought home. the new prime minister has to represent the will of the people in australia. overwhelmingly, people in australia what this to come to a close most of amy: thank you for being with us, gabriel shipton, film maker and julian assange's brother. next up, highlights from thursday's hearing on the house select committee on the january6 insurrection. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

y: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we turn now to the third public hearing of the house select committee investigating the january 6 insurrection. on thursday, committee members revealed in detail how donald trump knew his plan to overturn the 2020 election was illegal but pushed his vice president mike pence to take part in what the committee has described as an attempted coup. but pence refused to take part after trump asked him to unilaterally reject the electoral college results on january 6. the committee also revealed the architect of trump's plan, the attorney john eastman, also knew the plan was illegal but pushed

it anyway and later sought a pardon for himself. witnesses testifying live on thursday included michael luttig, a retired judge and one of the most influential right-wing legal experts. >> in short, if i had been advising the vice president of the united states on january 6, and even if then vice president jefferson and even then vice president john adams, and even then vice president richard nixon had done exactly what the

president of the united states wanted his vice president to do, i would have laid my body across the road before i would have let the vice president overturn the 2020 election on the basis of that historical precedent. amy: the retired judge described trump as a clear and present danger to american democracy and warned trump and allies will also attempt to overturn the 2024 election if they lose, saying this time they may succeed. we're going to go now back to the beginning, to the opening statements at the hearing by pete aguilar, democratic

california. at first, the vice chair of the committee liz cheney, the republican of wyoming. >> let me take just a few minutes today to put the topic of our hearing in broader context. in our last hearing, we heard unequivocal testimony that president trump was told his election fraud allegations were complete nonsense. we heard this from members of the trump campaign. we heard this from president trump's campaign lawyers. we heard this from president trump's former attorney general, bill barr. we heard this from president trump's former acting attorney general jeff rosen. and we heard this from president trump's former acting deputy attorney general richard donoghue. we heard from members of president trump's white house staff as well. today we're focusing on president trump's relentless effort to pressure mike pence to refuse to count electoral votes on january 6. here again is how the former vice president phrased it in a speech before the federalist

society, a group of conservative lawyers. vice pre pence: i heard this week that president trump said i had the right to overturn the election. but president trump is wrong. i had no right to overturn the election. the presidency belongs to the american people and the american people alone. and frankly, there is no idea more un-american than the notion that any one person could choose the american president. >> what the president wanted the vice president to do was not just wrong, it was illegal and unconstitutional. we will hear many details in today's hearing, but please consider these two points. first, president trump was told repeatedly that mike pence lacked the constitutional and legal authority to do what president trump was demanding he do. this is testimony from marc short, the vice president's

chief of sta, who served in the trump administration in multiple positions over four years. >> but just to pick up on that, mr. short, is it -- was it your impressi that the vice president had directly conveyed his position on these issues to the president, not just to the world through a dear colleague letter, but directly to president trump. and he'd been consistent in conveying his position to the president? >> very consistent. >> but president trump plotted with a lawyer named john eastman to pressure pence to do so anyway. as the federal court has explained, "based on the evidence, the court finds that it is more likely than not that president trump and dr. eastman dishonestly conspired to obstruct the joint session of congress on january 6, 2021." what exactly did president trump know? when exactly did president trump

know that it would be illegal for mike pence to refuse to count electoral votes? here is one sample of testimony given by one of the witnesses before us today, the vice president's general counsel. >> did john eastman ever admit, as fars you know, in front of the president that his proposal would violate the electoral count act? >> i believe he did on the 4th. >> that was january 4, two days before the attack on congress. a second point, please listen to testimony today about all of the ways that president trump attempted to pressure vice president pence, including donald trump's tweet at 2:24 pm condemning vice president mike pence, when president trump already knew a violent riot was underway at the capitol.

in future hearings, you will hear from witnesses who were present inside the white house, who were present inside the west wing, on that day. but today we focus on the earnest efforts of mike pence, who was determined to abide by his oath of office. as vice president pence prepared a statement on january 5 and 6th, explaining that he could not illegally refuse to count electoral votes, he said this to his staff. >> and the vice president said this may be the most important thing i ever sign, and so -- >> this meaning the statement? >> the statement, and he really wanted to make sure that it was just so. >> you will hear today that president trump's white house counsel believed that the vice president did exactly the right thing on january 6, as did others in the white house, as did fox news host sean hannity. vice president pence understood that his oath of office was more important than his loyalty to

donald trump. he did his duty. president trump unequivocally did not. thank you, mr. chairman. i yield back. >> without objection, i recognized the gentleman from california, mr. aguilar, for an opening statement. >> thank you, mr. chairman. today we intend to show the american people that january 6 was not an isolated incident. in the weeks culminating before, it was illegal scheme and deception. we've already learned that president trump knew he lost the 2020 election. shortly after, he began to look for a way to circumvent our country's most fundamental civic tradition, the peaceful transfer of power. the president latched on to a dangerous theory and would not that go because he was convinced it would keep him in office.

we witnessed firsthand what happened when the president of the united states weaponized this theory. the capitol was overrun, police officers lost their lives. the vice president was taken to a secure location because his safety was in jeopardy. let's take a look at the effect of donald trump's words and actions. i want to warn our audience come the video contains explicit content. pres. trump: mike pence is going to have to come through for us. and if he doesn't, that will be -- a sad day for our country. and mike pence, i hope you're going to stand up for the good of our constitution and for the good of our country. and if you're not, i'm going to be very disappointed in you, i will tell you right now. >> i'm telling you what, i'm hearing that pence -- hearing the pence just caved. no. is that true? i didn't hear it. i'm hear -- i'm hearing reports that pence caved. no way. i'm telling you, if pence caved,

we're going to drag -- through the streets. you -- politicians are going to get -- drug through the streets. >> i guess the hope is that there's such a show of force here that pence will decide to -- >> bring him out. >> bring out pence. >> bring him o. >> bring out pen. >> bring him out. >> hang mike pence. hang mike pence. hang mike pence. hang mike pence. hang mike pence. >> how did we get to this point? how did we get to the point where president trump's most radical supporters led a violent attack on the capitol and threatened to hang president trump's own vice president? you'll hear from witnesses that donald trump pressured mike pence to adopt a legally and morally bankrupt idea that the vice president could choose who the next president can be.

you'll hear about how the vice president, the white house counsel, and others told donald trump that the vice president had no such authority. but president trump not listen. you'll hear how vice president pence withstood an onslaught of pressure from president trump both publicly and privately, a pressure campaign that built to a fever pitch with a heated phone call on january 6. you will also hear the president knew there was a violent mob when he tweeted at 2:24 p.m. that the vice president did not have the "courage to do what needed to be done." let me be clear, vice president pence did the right thing that day. he stayed true to his oath to protect and defendhe constitution. amy: that was january 6 committee member pete aguilar's opening statement. following liz cheney and the

chair of the house of the january 6 collect committee bennie thompson, mississippi democrat. congress member aguilar went on to question greg jacob, the top white house lawyer for former vice president mike pence. this was life questioning during the hearing. this is congressman aguilar. close testimony has made clear what the target of the rioters higher was, vice president mike pence. they breached the capital at 2:13 p.m. >> go. go. go. go. >> now let's take a look at what was going on at the white house

at this time. we received testimony that the president's chief of staff mark meadows was notified of the violence of the capitol by 2:00 p.m. and likely earlier. the testimony further establishes that mr. meadows quickly informed the president and that he did so before the president issued his 2:24 p.m. tweet criticizing vice president for not having "courage to do what needed to be done." here is what the rioters thought. >> nothing but a traitor, and he deserves to burn witthe rest of 'em. so this -- so this all escalated after pence -- what -- what happened? did pee -- pence, yeah. pence didn't do what we wanted. >> pence voted against trump. >> ok. and that's when all this started? >> that's when we marched on the capitol. we've been shot at with rubber bullets, tear gas. >> we just heard that mike pence is not going to reject any fraudulent electoral votes. >> boo.

>> you're a traitor. >> that's right. you've heard it here first. mike pence has betrayed the united states of america. >> boo. >> -- you, mike pence. >> mike pence has betrayed this president and he has betrayed the people of the united states and we will never, ever forget. >> it's real simple. pence betrayed us, which apparently everybody knew he was going to and the president mentioned it like five times when he talked. you can go back and watch the president's video. >> this is our capitol. let's be respectful to it. there is 4 million people coming in. so there's a lot of control -- >> it's only a matter of time. justice is coming.

>> although the president's chief of staff mark meadows has refused to testify before this committee, mr. meadows' aide ben williamson and white house deputy press secretary sarah matthews testified that mr. meadows went to the dining room near the oval office to tell the president about the violence at the capitol before the president's 2:24 p.m. tweet. our investigation found that immediately after the president's to 24 time p.m. tweet come the crowds outside the capital and inside the capital surged. the crowds inside were able to overwhelm the law enforcement presence in the vice president was quickly evacuated from his ceremonial senate office to a secure location within the capitol complex. >> by 2:24 p.m., the secret service had moved vice president pence from the senate chamber to

his office across the hall. >> the noise from the rioters became audible, at which point we recognized that maybe they had gotten into the building. >> then president trump tweeted "mike pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our country and our constitution, giving states a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. usa demands the truth." >> bring out pence. >> it was clear that it was escalating and escalating quickly. >> hang mike pence. hang mike pence. >> so then when that tweet -- the mike pence tweet was sent out, i remember us saying that that was the last thing that needed to be tweeted at that moment. the situation was already bad, and so it felt like he was pouring gasoline on the fire by tweeting that. >> 30 seconds later, rioters already inside the capitol opened the east rotunda door

just dowthe hall. and just 30 seconds after that , rioters breached the crypt one floor below the vice president. >> the secret service couldn't control the situation and do their job of keeping him safe. >> at 2:26 p.m., secret service rushed vice president pence down the stairs. >> i think they had been trying to figure out whether they had a clear route to get us to where there -- it was that they wanted to move us to. >> we moved pretty quickly down the stairs and through various hallways and tunnels to the secure location. upon arriving there, there was further discussion as to whether or not we were going to leave the capitol complex or stay where we were. vice president pence and his team ultimately were led to a secure location where they stayed for the next four and a half hours, barely missing rioters a few feet away. >> approximately 40 feet. that's all there was. 40 feet between the vice president and the mob.

mr. jacob, you were there. seeing that for the first time. does it surprise you to see how close the mob was to the evacuation route that you took? the -- 40 feet is the distance from me to you roughly. >> i could hear the din of the rioters in the building while we moved, but i don't think i was aware that they were as close as that. >> make no mistake about the fact that the vice president's life was in danger. a recent court filing by the department of justice explains that a confidential informant from the proud boys told the fbi that the proud boys would have killed mike pence if given a chance. this witness, whom the fbi affidavit refers to as w1, stated that other members of the group talked about things they did that day and they said that anyone they got their hands on they would have killed including nancy pelosi.

proud boys said that they would have killed mike pence if given a chance. amy: that his democratic congress member pete aguilar. also during thursday's hearing, trump white house lawyer eric herschmann described in recorded testimony his call with john eastman, the lawyer advising former president trump on the plan to overturn the 2020 election. the call took place on january 7, the day after that deadly insurrection. >> the day after, eastman i remember why -- he called me -- or he texted me or called me, wanted to talk with me, and he said he couldn't reach others. and he started to ask me about something dealing with georgia and preserving something potentially for appeal.

and i said to him, are you out of your f-ing mind? i said i only want to hear two words coming out of your mouth for now on, orderly transition. i said i don't want to hear any other f-ing words coming out of your mouth no matter what other than orderly transition. repeat those wordso me. >> what did he say? >> eventually he said, orderly transition. i said, good, john. now i'm going to give you the best free legal advice you're ever getting in your life. get a great f-ing criminal defense lawyer. you're going to need it. and then i hung up on him. amy: this is congressman aguilar. >> in fact, just a few days later, dr. eastman emailed rudy giuliani and requested that he be included on a list of potential recipients of a presidential pardon. dr. eaman's email stated,

"i've decided that i should be on the pardon list if that is still in the works." dr. eastman did not receive his presidential pardon. so let's see what dr. eastman did as a result when he was deposed by this committee. >> i assert my fifth amendment right against being compelled to be a witness against myself. >> did the trump legal team ask you to prepare a memorandum regarding the vice president's role in the counting of electoral votes at the joint session of congress on january 6, 2021? >> dr. eastman, did you advise the president of the united states that the vice president could reject electors from seven states and declare that the president had been reelected? >> fifth. >> dr. eastman, the first sentence of the memo starts off by saying seven states have transmitted dual slates electors to t president of the senate.

is that statement in this memo true? >> fifth. >> did president trump authorized you to discuss publicly your january 4, 2021 conversation with him? >> fifth. >> are -- so, is it your position that you can discuss in the media direct conversations you had with the president of the united states, but you will not discuss those same conversations with this committee? >> fifth. >> dr. eastman plead the fifth a -- 100 times. amy: that is highlights from the third public hearing of the u.s. house select committee to investigate the january6th attack on the united states capitol. the fourth hearing is set for tuesday at 1:00 p.m. eastern and we will be livestreaming that at democracynow.org. coming up next, i major march on washington this weekend, the

poor people's march. we will be speaking with the reverend dr. liz theoharis and bishop william barber. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "blazing arrow" by blackalicious. this weekend marks the one year anniversary of the passing of rapper gift of gab. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as the united states experiences its worst inflation in decades with skyrocketing food, gas, and energy prices, we and today show and washington, d.c., with the moral march on washington saturday. the demonstration is being led by low income people and workers demanding access to stable housing, health care, living wages, gun control, and reproductive and voting rights. for more, we're joined in washington, d.c., by bishop dr.

william barber, co-chair of the poor people's campaign and president of repairers of the breach. we also hope to speak with dr. liz theoharis, cochair of the poor people's campaign. vision barber, welcome back to democracy now! if you can talk about what you're doing in washington as inside the capitol, there is this epic historic hearing around the previous president's attempted coup, the man who would not let go of power that was forced to in the end. i'm wondering if you can contrast what we saw there with what you're doing this weekend? >> thank you, amy. we are not insurrection, we're the resurrection. the resurrection of thousands of every race and creed and color and kind who are coming nonviolently to washington,

d.c., from all across this great land to say the 140 million poor and low income in this country, 43% of this nation, 52% of the children, 68% -- 60% of black people, 33% of white people, 68 percent of latinos and so forth and so on, 87 million people who are uninsured or underinsured, 30 2 million people that get at every morning a work jobs that do not pay a living wage, less than $15 an hour, we won't be silent or unseen anymore. the time has come for us to have a third reconstruction. we had one in the 1800s, the 1960's, and we need one now. that is about power, policy, a framework in this country because to have this level of poverty that is not talked about come and unheard, is morally

indefensible, constitutionally inconsistent, politically consistent, and economically insane. the poor people are coming to say not only do we need a moral reset and low-wage workers are saying it, we represent 32% of the electorate and 45% of the electorate in battleground states. it is time for that power to mobilize itself and every election throughout this country. when we look at what you see in the hearings, have to ask the question, why are trump and his team fighting to hold onto power? why would mcconnell and then impeach him when they had a chance? i believe, amy, and we believe this isn't just about personality but policy. we are witnessing a crisis of democracy. because some of the people who did not go along with trump and

did not go along with eastman's scheme, still took the time to see if it was right. and if there was a way they could do it. they still voted 9% of the time for trump's policies of extremism and still believe in a political policy coup d'état to suppress the vote, to rob the government of its resources by giving tax cuts to the wealthiest and the corporate interests that disempowers the government doing the things it needs to do, police are left out and workers and women. there still the group that one step a political coup d'état and take women's rights to their own body. they are still the group that wants to block living wages, block health care, block addressing climate change, block police violence. and all of these policies produce policy murder. we found out just this week that the denial of unersal health

care during covid, for instance, has cost 330,000 lives. we found out because of trump and his allies policies in the beginning of covid, poor people died at the rate of two to five times higher than anyone else in this country. we are the contrast. what he's on january 6, the insurrection. what you see on saturday is the resurrection. resurrection of people coming together, moral march. we are, people to join us at third and pennsylvania 9:30 a.m. saturday morning. amy: liz theoharis is with us, director and dr. liz theoharis who was core chair of -- co-chair of the poor people's campaign. also the executive director of the kairos center at union theological seminar. liz, welcome back to democracy now! if you could talk about the

significance of this march and this coming at a time where a yale study just came out saying something like 338 thousand people who died of covid-19 during the pandemic in the united states, one third of the people, died unnecessarily, could have been saved if the u.s. had medicare for all. can you talk about how health care is a basic right is one of the tenets of what people are calling for in washington? >> thank you, amy. it is great to be fact. as mr. barber said and you referenced, this study came out this week that says one third of the people who did not have health care would not have died from the pandemic -- what we in the poor people's campaign have been putting out and we did a study with jeffrey sachs and folks over at colombia university that showed between two and five times the number of

poor people from poor communities diedrom the pandemic than richer communities and richer people. again, this is because of the underlying issues of health inequality, poverty, of low wages. when we gather on pennsylvania avenue on saturday and we hear the voices, the stories, but also the solutions coming out of poor and low income people's experience and lives, we will surely hear about the need for health care. as mr. barber said, we need health care to be connected to people's bodies not to their jobs. and how is it in this rich nation that spends more money on health care than any other nation with a comparable economy still has the kind of poor health outcome, still has 87 million people who before the pandemic were uninsured or underinsured?

and even more, tens of thousands, who have lost their health care coverage in the worst public health crisis in generations? this does not have to be. it actually -- we could spend less on health care and lead healthier lives and everyone could have universal coverage. we need to expand medicaid but we also need to implement a single-payer universal health care system. this will lift society from the bottom. so this and the cry and demand for a living ge jobs, for adequate housing, for immigration reform, for protecting this democracy. they are all connected. we see the interconnections, the intersections of the denial of health care, the structural environment, the militarizion of our communities, and their problems -- the poverty and the wages that are infecting almt

half of the population and, therefore, bringinthis impoveshed democracy to real crisis. amy: you have also said declaring war is a declaration of war on the poor. explain. >> that actually comes from dr. king and many who have come before, but dr. king when he comes out against the vietnam war those years ago said war in all its form is a war on the poor and it is cruel manipulation of the poor. we are sing this today. we don't have a draft but we have a poverty draft. 22 veterans commit suicide every day this country because of the moral costs of war. our military budget, $.53 of every discretionary dollar goes to the military. we can't even spend $.15 on health care and living wage jobs and investments in our children

and anti-poverty programs combined. this disproportionately impacts poor people. that is poor people in the u.s. and poor people across the world. as dr. king said, of poor people come together from this rich nation to go and killoor people across the world. and we are seeing this across the world in this moment as well. amy: bishop barber, this is pride month and there have been serious attacks or attempted attacks from court elaine to the bay area. you had patriot front in idaho, small army stop by police before they attacked a pride march. can you talk about the far right and the white supremacists using christianity to justify what they are doing? >> i don't call them right.

i don't use the term far right or far left. i think those terms are problematic. the one thing the poor people's campaign is thing we need to have a moral conversation about right versus wrong, constitutional versus unconstitutional. that is part of our problem. the reality is that is heresy. it is using religion to justify violence against gay people come against women, against the poor, against any segment o community when you use it to suppress the vote, when you use religion to block living wages and health care. it is exactly wrong. one of the reasons is wron from mor and religious standpoint is because those become the policies of death. it costs lives when you deny health care. when you attack the lgbtq community's come you cost lives. when you allow guns, people to walk around with ak-47s, you

cost lives. when you block living wages of people moving about -- out of poverty, we knew even before covid hit, poor people were dying at a rate of 700 people a day, nearly 30 people in our per day, 250,000 a year from the effects of poverty. that is contrary to the biblical call to life, contrary the call of the ancient prophets. it is contrary to the call of jesus that was supposedly about life and good news to the poor. it is contrary to the declaration of independence that we are supposedly about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and contrary to the constitution for the promised of equal protection under the law. what we're saying is on saturday, we're having black people, white people, why people, gay people, straight

people, republicans, democrats, veterans, nonveterans. it is not a march and a rally but an assembly for people to come and talk, poor people to talk for themselves. where the resurrection and out the insurrection. amy: we want to thank you both for being with us. bishop dr. william barber and dr. liz theoharis, cochairs of the poor people's campaign, holding a mass poor people's assembly and moral march on washington on saturday. liz, i want to congratulate your sister jean theoharis, the rebellious life of mrs. rosa parks based on her best-selling book by the same title just premiered last night at the tribeca film festival, directed by our former democracynow! producer as well as joanna hamilton. it is fantastic, not to be missed by anyone. that does it for our show.

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