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unconstitutional. >> as governor of the state of new york, my number one priority is to keep people safe. by the supreme court is setting us backwards in our efforts to protect families and prevent gun violence, and it is particularly painful that this came down at this moment, when we are still dealing with families in pain from mass shootings that have occurred, the loss of life their beloved children and grandchildren. today the supreme court struck down a new york law that limits who can carry concealed weapons. >> the u.s. house select committee is holding its fifth hearing into last year's storming of the capitol building. the committee heard how then-president donald trump made almost daily calls to the justice department with allegations of voter fraud. search-and-rescue operations have ended in some major regions of afghanistan after the country's worst earthquake in 20 years. at least 1500 people have been killed.

the government has made a major appeal for international help. survivors are desperate for food, shelter, and drinking water. iran has dismissed the powerful chief of the revolutionary guard intelligence service. he worked at the office of iran's supreme leader before becoming intelligence chief in 2009. indigenous protesters in ecuador have taken over a cultural center that had been sealed off by security forces for a week. after 11 days of a nationwide strike against government policies and the rising cost of living, the occupation has been celebrated as a victory by protesters. the house of culture has traditionally given shelter to indigenous demonstrators when they come to the capital, by the government had blocked access, as it strives to contain the protests. those are the headlines. the news continues on al jazeera, after "inside story." ♪

hashem: the chinese president warns against expanding military alliances and weaponizing economic sanctions. xi jinping made the comments at a brics summit attended by vladimir putin. but what leverage does this group with emerging economies build on the world stage? this is “inside story.” ♪ hashem: hello and welcome to the program. i am hashem elbarra. the world's top five emerging economies -- brazil, russia, india, china, and south africa are holding their annual summit

virtually for the third time this year due to the pandemic . the brics meeting is taking place against a complex geopolitical backdrop, from the war in ukraine and trade disputes between china and the u.s. to a global economy trying to recover from the fallout of covid-19 pandemic. chinese president xi jinping hosting this year's summit has , criticized the west handling of the ukraine crisis and called for coordination to prevent disruptions to the global economic recovery. translator: it has been proven time and again that sanctions are a boomerang and a double-edged sword to politicize , instrumentalized, and weaponize global economy, and to willfully impose sanctions by taking advantage of one's dominant status in the international financial and monetary systems. it will only end up hurting one own's interests as well as those

of others, and inflict suffering on people around the world. hashem: for vladimir putin it was an opportunity to showcase his allies' support. china, india, and south africa have so far declined to criticize the invasion of ukraine. >> translator: contact between russian business circles and the business community of the brics countries are being activated . for example negotiations are , underway to open indian supermarket chains in russia to increase the share of chinese cars, equipment, and machinery in our market. in turn, the russian presence of the countries of the five is expanding. the volumes of russian oil deliveries to china and india are growing noticeably. corporation in the field of agriculturis develing dynamically. russia exports significant volumes of fertilizers to the brics countries. russian i.t. companies are expanding their activities in india and south africa, and our satellites are already providing tv broadcast to 40 million people in brazil.

hashem: so, what is brics? brazil, russia, india, china, and south africa an association , of the world's five major emerging economies. together, the countries form a powerful economic bloc representing 41 of the world's population. they account for the total value of goods produced and services provided in the world per year , and 16% of the value of global trade. ♪ let's bring in our guests. in beijing, einar tangen is a senior fellow at the taihe institute. in cape town, sanusha naidu is a senior research fellow at the institute for global dialogue, a south african think tank focusing on china and africa. in williamsburg, virginia, nancy snow is a visiting distinguished professor at tsinghua university's schwarzman scholars program. welcome to the program.

einar, when the chinese lead talks during the talks about the need to boost multilateral cooperation and ask the brics to condemn or to reject what he described as a cold war mentality and bloc confrontation , was he sending a message to the biden admistration? >> i think it is more than just biden. i think he's sending a message to the world that right now there are so many issues and problems out there that talking about ideology at a time when the world needs a blueprint -- we're looking at long-term global warming. short-term, we have inflation. we have wars and we're about to experience probably a global recession. it's going to drive developing countries into the ground. you've seen that already with sri lanka. it's necessary for there to be, as i said, an adult in the room. he is in essence asking the

brics to be the leaders given that there's been a default from the developed world. hashem: this summit is held against the backdrop of extraordinary geopolitical landscape. now, the general assumption was basically that the brics is an organization trying to chart its own path independently from the influence of key players, the russians on one hand, the americans on the other. but there is a feeling that brics is moving more towards supporting russia? guest: good day. i think that sense that you get that russia will be a key actor and try and influence and strategically push the brics towards some kind of overall support, i mean, you get the sense that on the one hand, the perception that is being driven in terms of thglobal narrative that the other brics countries will have to show support to russia because russia is a member of the brics and therefore the's this kind of

overall overarching support for one of its members. but i think what is also important to bear in mind is that the brics countries realize , particularly china, india, south africa, and brazil, how much the effect of what is happening, in terms of where the global political arena is and the kind of implications that we see as mentioned in terms of economic security and the kind of recession we are heading to in the global economymakes it very difficult to say that we're only going to support one country in this. i think all of the countries in the brics realize how important it is to try and stalize this global political arena and the fact that the global development agenda a the overall global economic architecture is in a tailspin and is very fragile and unstable at the moment. hashem: on the other hand, the americans widely believe that against the backdrop of the strained relations between the

u.s. and china, the chinese are likely to use the bloc of brics to further advance their own political agenda at the expense of the geopolitical interests of the united states of america. guest: right. and greetings from williamsburg, virginia on the campus of william and mary where i'm presently attending a conference on china's global influence. i think that multilateral dialogue, whether it is happening in the brics or it's happening with the quad, if it is going on, -- we have got so many global issues. i would agree with the speaker first that this really shouldn't be a new cold war. it's an interesting phenomenon though to have india's participation, because weeks ago , i was being interviewed about the quad meeting in tokyo, where i lived most of the time. and india is playing more of this mediator role.

it's not alone either there are many countries that don't really want to choose sides that want to work with all global players , including the great powers and don't really want to get into these ideological divides. i think there is a lot of pessimism about what we can do together on the global commons. i don't share that pessimistic outlook, but i think there is that feeling now with the rise of a global recession, with a lot of human suffering that , peop really are qutioning the leadship. are we goi to see a peaceful resolutionn ukraine? are we going to be able to come together as a global humanity of people beyond just nation states and power politics? hashem: since this is all about optics, if you look at the event

itself and the way it is viewed, this is putin's first meeting with heads of key and major economies since the start of the war in ukraine. and for many, the west in particular, this is a platform for putting to tell the international community that isolation sanctions are backfiring since i have the backing of some of the key international players. guest: well, i don't think he does have the backing. you will note that the speeches that followed avoided the issue of russia. it was only xi jinping who pointed out that it was by the ukraine situation was avoidable if they had not backed russia into a corner and making in essence russia feel that they had had to fight other than that , everyone kind of steered clear. so this idea that they are supporting russia or that they're going to support the u.s. is nonsense.

each of these nations is looking for their own daylight. i mean, brazil, talking about, you know, look, they're open to any kind of economic cooperation. dia talk about poverty. south africa talked about poverty. india talked about the event itself. i mean, at this juncture, it should not be about whose side you're on. the world is in crisis. i mean the number-one issue even in developed cntriess yes people have a right to , question their leaders. right now, with inflationary pressure due to a shortage of oil and food, you know, they are pumping up the rates. the fed is pumping up the rates. that is likely to produce one barrel of oil or one basket of wheat. so it seems kind of odd that they are continuing to fight the last war, and not gaining traction.

hashem: at the same time, since we are talking about this geopolitical order, the west has been helping to put more sanctions on the russia to pressure the russian leader into political concessions. now, when they see that the chinese and the indians are particularly trying to tap into this void by buying oil and gas at a cheap rate from the russians, this is somehow seen as a pushback against the sanctions by filling the coffers of the russian budget. guest: the point here is that you are trying to push countries into a particular kind of optics and narrative and a particular trajectory. i think the question is, everybody is looking out for themselves. i completely agree with the first speaker that everybody is worried about what the impact on

the ground is in terms of the fact that sri lanka was mentioned, but i want to bring it back to africa. just look at the impact this is having on african economies, and africa's access to food, value chains and commodity prices. this interest rate approach and trying to beat inflation through increasing interest rates and austerity measures is not working out. i think the challenge right now is the sensation that you have got to use sanctions in the vertical way. in the region i live in, south africa, we saw what sanctions did to zimbabwe. what sanctions have done to ordinary people's lives in zimbabwe, they were being held and being punished for what their political leaders did, not what they weren't able to do. they took t country into crisis because of their lack of governance. i think this is something you have to really think about in terms of the fact that, are you really going to be challenging

russia, or are you basically creating a deeper crisis of people's livelihoods that's going to become even more undesirable and we're going to see a situation become untenable ? ? hashem: nancy, with a combined population of more than 3 billion people and a combined gdp of more than 22.3 trillion dollars, this is a massive political and economic leverage. do you think the brics is trying to present itself as an alternative to the g7 or could potentially be one of those blah, blah, blah -- one of those bloc that is trying to mediate between the west of russia, the rest of the third world? guest: it is a little too soon to tell. i think it is clear now that we have got to come up with other resolutions of problems. sanctions will only go so far. there is going to be a lot of compassion

fatigue, forward if the russia invasion of ukraine is seen as going on for years. people are really getting hurt across the globe, and poorer countries and poorer people are getting hurt the most. japan has been very involved in africa as has china. japan is going forward with the tokyo international conference on african development cannot meeting in tunisia at the end of august. they were not just be talking about vaccine diplomacy, they will talk about these international issues, these geopolitical realities. and they are very troublesome. weighing on all of us. so whether or not the brics is positioning itself as an alternative to g7 doesn't really matter to me. i would like to see more peace and resolution and a stronger economy and sustainability. and the players involved, you know, if they are going to look

at that, again, global commons issues, climate change, sustainability and food insecurity now, then i am all for it. and we need more of these multilateral dialogues, as i said earlier, not less. hashem: since it was established in 2009, you really don't get a sense that brics has managed to achieve an a lasting legacy in terms of the pledges and the promises made initially. was it mainly because of the absence of cohesion between the key members? i will give you an example, when you look at india and china, both members of brics, they have been having very difficult moments in recent history. guest: absolutely. and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight. the issue right now is, i think all three of us agree that this

is a situation where you need life flight. this is not about an ideology. this is not where someone sends you a potential device where you are drowning, this is life or death. long-term climate change. we have seen the devastating effects. it is adding to the food chain woes. india is having a hard time. they thought they could export wheat. not it is clear they might have to import and prices will go up globally. same thing happen in the united states, the wheat harvest got very mushy towards the end after a very dry season. these types of insecurities are really important. i cannot eat. i cannot live. i do not have energy, i cannot up at my economy. i mean, these are the things that have to be dealt with now , not ideology. china has simply said, look, we

have a blueprint that has worked in terms of covid, in terms of our economy. it is not about ideology. it is time to get realistic. what this group is doing is trying to fill the vacuum -- i don't know that they will be able to do it unless they get a larger group there and convene more cohesive. i think they can do some things in terms of infrastructure. it is actually better to have -- not better, less costly to have alternative energy than coal, but you have to make the initial investment. right now it could come out of brics because of the banks. they have the methods and money to do what they do, as opposed to the west. biden had three summits. we are still trying to figure out what of these frameworks are going to adapt to. so far, nothing. hashem: to move forward, you need to be at least able to have

a shared vision. i mentioned india and china for the simple reason that in 2020, they were on the verge of a major military confrontation, there was violence on the border between the two countries. and there is a prevailing sentiment among the indians that the chinese will always use platforms such as brics to further advance their own political -- geopolitical clout. do you see the indians open to the very notion of expanding brics for the sole reason of diluting the impact of the chinese? guest: i mean, the issue of what china has done in innovating the brics plus, and now including some very important and strategic countries from the global south and in particular , argentina, including nigeria, senegal, egypt, i think that raises questions in terms cohesiveness we talked about. the fact that the more you have a membership that is able to

come together in terms of what is here and now and how to deal with it, will be important. for india, as i would like to think for south africa, they are still mulling over the issue of what this expansion will mean for them. for example, in the context of africa, if you look at south africa as the only as the only african voice and the member in the brics as well as in the g20 , there is a discussion happening about whether that should be expanded to increase more of the african voice in terms of the leverage and the engagement. but it is a question again not to see it only in the context of what impact that has on the fact that some countries may not want it because they want to preserve their membership within the brics. but i think right now it is about collaboration and cooperation. if you look at the document that the chinese had put out for this year's brics summit and it talks about the kind of fostering of engagements and the kind of ushering of a new development agenda or paradigm, i think the challenge is you cannot be

exclusive anymore, you have got to be seen to be inclusive. that is key to where you want to be as the brics. hashem: nancy, if we set aside the differences the political differences between the key players of the brics and you look at the most persisting issues, particularly the fallout of the war in ukraine, high inflation, the grain supplies which have been disrupted which are widely seen as potential triggers of a prolonged recession in the future, could this extraordinary geopolitical moment be the time when brics has to reinvent itself to be able to move forward and to adapt to these new realities? guest: well, i just want to piggyback on what she was just saying. i think there's a lot of promise and opportunity here and because there are a lot more countries that really want a seat around the table. they want to have their representative point of view. they are thinking beyond just national interest.

they are thinking regionally, globally. that is a positive aspect. that's the thing about crisis. we are clearly in a global crisis on so many levels and that's when you step up and you have a reckoning. so i am feeling more optimistic, even though my heart sinks over all of the human suffering. but we have got to come together. i like what i am hearing about getting beyond ideology. we are all human beings sitting on this panel talking to you and the more that we can have these common interests, these shared interests and values, all the better. because these problems are just going to become more chronic if we engage in too much of an ideological warfare. hashem: i wish the world was free of ideology. however, i have to keep asking those questions because this is the reality on the ground. when you look at china and the u.s., they must be on a

collision course, because america has made it quite clear that as far as their strategy is concerned, they see china as the biggest threat to stability and to american interests in the near future. could this be something that could undermine the chances for brics to thrive and stay together? guest: no. quite the opposite. and what we've witnessed is a multi-polarity in action. i mean, the united states is not calling the shots. president biden had a meeting with bolsonaro, he is going to have a meeting with mbs. these are people he called names before, people who questioned his presidency, in bolsonaro's case. it is almost unheard of. in the past u.s. presidents , didn't swallow their pride and go around. they would in essence dictate things or move things around or threaten you with the imf or world bank or something like that.

no, the more that the u.s., in the mind of the global south and central asia asked erratically, is talking about ideology when people need food, that is going to actually push up their desire to have any entity. including brics, step forward with some sort of plan. i agree. we are at a crisis, and talking about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin is not going to feed one person. [laughter] hashem: to end on a very positive note, brics, could it stand in the future as somehow a savior, stepping in providing food to the world? guest: i think we have got to move away from this idea that there's going to be one group that is going to save the world. it's about the multi-polarity, at the multilateral, and how you look at the brics, there is a consistency in the theme in the narrative. it's always about strengthening the multilateral. it's about strengthening the u.n.

it's about strengthening the wto. so i think we got to be careful in assuming that the brics is going to be the savior. i think the brics is going to be evolving and when it evolves, it's going to have different iterations. and that's going to be key to the stabilization of this global arena which is currently in a very vulnerable context right now. hashem: i wish we had time to continue our conversation, but unfortunately we're running out of time. in the meantime, sanusha naidu, nancy snow, and einar tangen, i really appreciate your insight. thank you very much. and thank you for watching. you can see the program again anytime by visiting our website aljazeera.com. for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook.com/ajinsidestory. you can also join the conversation on twitter. our handle is at @ajinsidestory. for me, hashem ahelbarra, and the entire team here in doha, bye for now. ♪

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