06/29/22 06/29/22 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> the president got into the vehicle can he thought they were going up to the capitol and what bobby relayed to him -- we don't have the assets to do it, it is not secure, we're going back to the west wing. the president reached up for the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel and mr. engel

said, sir, you need to take a hint of the steering well. back to the west wing. we are not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand and lunged toward bobby engel. amy: cassidy hutchinson accuses donald trump of attacking his own secret service agent on january 6 after he refused to drive trump to the capitol to join the armed mob gathering to block dramatic testimony before the house january 16 committee when she also revealed trump urged security officials to stop using magnetometers to screen for weapons just prior to the violent attack on the capitol

and that chief of staff mark meadows and rudy giuliani both sought pardons after the insurrection. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in explosive testimony, a former white house aide accused donald trump of attacking his own presidential security detail on january 6 after the secret service refused to drive him to the capitol to join the armed mob. the testimony came from cassidy hutchinson, former aide to white house chief of staff mark meadows. speaking to the january 6 house committee, hutchinson described being told what happened inside trump's limo, which is known as the beast. >> the president reached up toward the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering well -- steering wheel.

mr. engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing. we're not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel. and mr. -- when mr. ornato had recounted this story to me, he had motioned towards his clavicles. amy: she revealed trump urged security officials to stop using magnetometers tocreen for weapons at his rally on january 6, just prior to the capitol insurrection. >> i was in the vicinity where i overheard the president say something to the effect of combining care that they have weapons. they're not here to hurt me. take that effing mags away. let my people in. they can march to the capitol from here. let the people in. take the effing mags away. amy: moments later, trump urged supporters to fight like hell at the end otuesday's hearin committee, vice chair lynn cheney presented evidence of possible witness tampering by

allies of trump in an effort to prevent other top trump associates from testifying. mark meadows said january 6 would be really, really bad. hutchinson said meadows and rudy giuliani later sought pardons after the insurrection. at the end of the tuesday hearing, committee vice chair liz cheney presented evidence of possible witness tampering by trump allies. we will have more on cassidy hutchinson's testimony after headlines. in texas, the number of people who died after being confined inside a sweltering tractor-trailer in san antonio has risen to 51. all of the victims are believed to have crossed the u.s.-mexican border seeking refuge. five more died while been taken to local hospitals. the victims include people from -- >> own to express my deepest condolences to the families who died yesterday, 68 it in a

trailer. it is a tremendous disgrace. these unfortunate events have to do with the situation of poverty and desperation of our central american and mexican brothers and sisters. it happens because there is also human trafficking and lack of control at the border between mexico and united states and in the united states. amy: in other news from texas, a state court has temporarily blocked a century-old abortion ban from going into effect. the center for reproductive rights said the decision will allow abortion services in texas to resume at some clinics, at least for now. at a nato summit in madrid, spain, president biden has announced plans to greatly expand the u.s. military presence in europe, including building a permanent headquarters for the u.s. 5th army corps in poland and deploying more troops to romania and the baltic region. biden said this is a part of a broader nato expansion. pres. biden: together our allies, we are going to make sure that nato is ready in all

directions across every demand, land, air, and c. amy: this comes as finland and sweden move closer to joining nato after turkey has lifted its opposition to their membership. nato's summit is expected to focus on russia's invasion of ukraine as well as the growing power of china. for the first time, nato has invited the leaders of japan, south korea, australia, and new zealand to attend a nato summit. voters went to the polls for primaries in colorado, illinois, maryland, new york, oklahoma, and utah on tuesday. runoff elections were also held in mississippi and south carolina. in new york, governor kathy hochul won the democratic primary with new york city public advocate jumaane williams placing second. in illinois, the trump-backed republican congressmember mary miller defeated fellow incumbent rodney davis. miller's election comes just days after she praised the supreme court's ruling overturning roe as a "victory for white life." in colorado, far-right republican congressmember lauren

boebert, who was also endorsed by trump, fended off a challenge from a more moderate republican. on sunday, she spoke at a church in colorado where she criticized the separation of church and state. >> the church is supposed to direct the government. the government is not supposed to direct the church. that is not how our founding fathers intended it. i am tired of the separation of church and state junk that is not in the constitution. it was in a stinking letter and it means nothing like they say it does. amy: in related news, the supreme court ruled monday against a public school district in washington state that suspended a high school football coach who insisted on conducting team prayers on the field after games. in their dissent, the court's three liberal judges warned that the ruling "strikes at the core of our constitutional protections for the religious liberty of students and their parents." meanwhile, the supreme court has reinstated a republican-draw congressional map in louisiana that was found by a lower court to violate the voting rights act

by diluting the political strength of black voters. michigan's supreme court has thrown out charges against former michigan governor rick snyder, his former health director, and seven other former officials for their role in the flint, michigan, water crisis. the court ruled 6-0 that the judge who issued the indictments did not have the authority to do so. colombia's truth commission has estimated over 450,000 people were killed in colombia between 1985 and 2018 during a te when the united states was a y backer of the colombian military and right-wing paramilitarie they targeted leftist groups, social justice leaders, and union members. the truth commission's report denounced the u.s.-funded war on drugs in colombia stating -- "the consequences of this concerted and largely u.s.-driven approach hardening of the conflict in which the civilian population has been the main victim."

>> to the government, public forces, politicaparties, entrepreneurs, churches, educators, and other cision-makers in colombia, we ask you to recognize that drug trafficking penetration in our culture, in the ste, polics, economy, and face it as a nation we must develop investigative tools to face the alliances and involved interests. we must change the war politics that attack those who are the weakest link. the farmers. amy: at least 51 people were killed and over two dozen others injured tuesday in a prison fire that started after prisone set mattresses ablaze to protest conditions inside the dangerously overcrowded facility in the cauca valley. the building is old and reportedly did not have a working fire suppression system. in the philippines, the independent news outlet rappler has been ordered to shut down by the philippines securities and exchange commission. rappler's founder, the nobel peace prize laureate maria ressa

, has vowed to fight the order which comes in the final days of rodrigo duterte's presidency. on thursday, ferdinand marcos, jr., the son of the late filipino dictator, will be inaugurated as president. a warning to our audience, the following headline contains graphic description of sexual abuse. the british socialite ghislaine maxwell has been sentenced to 20 years in prison for helping jeffrey epstein recruit and sexually assault teenage girls. in december, she was convicted on five charges, including sex trafficking of a minor. prior to the sentencing, sarah ransome, a survivor of epstein's abuse, spoke to reporters. >> i spent the last 17 years in my own prison for what she, jeffrey, and all the co-conspirators did to me. i was raped repeatedly. i was raped re-times a day sometimes. i was not the only girl on that island. there was a constant stream of girls in raped over and over and over again. and those are some of the

amy: headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. "bombshell after bombshell" is how public citizen described the dramatic testimony at tuesday's surprise hearing of the house select committee to investigate the january 6 attack on the united states capitol. the star witness, cassidy hutchinson, a longtime close aide of mark meadows, former president trump's white house chief of staff at the time of the insurrection. hutchinson was questioned for about two hours by the republican vice-chair of the committee, liz cheney. clips from her previous testimony to committee were also featured. her deposition testimony. today we bring you extended highlights of the explosive revelations. this is vice chair cheney. >> we will begin today with an exchange that first provided ms. hutchinson edge tangible sense of the ongoing planning for the events of january 6.

on january 2, four days before the attack on our capitol, president trump's lead lawyer mr. giuliani was meeting with white house chief of staff mark meadows and others. ms. hutchinson, do you remember mr. giuliani meeting with mr. meadows on january 2, 2021? >> i do. he met with mr. meadows in the evening of january 2, 2021. >> and we understand that you walked mr. giuliani out of the white house that night, and he talked to you about january 6. what do you remember him saying? >> as mr. giuliani and i were walking to his vehicles that evening, he looked at me and said something to the effect of, cass, are you excited for the 6th? it's going to be a great day. i remember looking at him saying, rudy, could you explain what's happening on the 6th? he had responded something to the effect of, we're going to the capitol. it's going to be great. the president's going to be there. h's going to look powerful. he's -- he's going to be with the members. he's going to be with the senators. talk to the chief about it, talk

to the chief about it. he knows about it. >> and did you go back then up to the west wing andell mr. meadows about your conversation th mr. giuliani? >> i did. after mr. giuliani had lefthe campus that evening, i went back up to our office and i found mr. meadows in his office on the couch. he was scrolling through his phone. i remember leaning against the doorway and saying, i just had an interesting conversation with rudy, mark. it sounds like we're going to go to the capitol. he didn't look up from his phone and said something to the effect of, there's a lot going on, cass, but i don't know. things might get real, real bad on january 6. >> ms. hutchinson, mr. meadows is engaged in litigation with the committee to try to avoid testifying here. what -- what was your reaction when he said to you things might get real, real bad? >> in the days before january 2, i was apprehensive about the 6th.

i had heard general plans for a rally. i had heard tentative movements to potentially go to the capitol. but when hearing rudy's take on january 6 and then mark's response, that was the first -- that evening was the first moment that i remember feeling scared and nervous for what could happen on january 6. and i had a deeper concern for what was happening with the planning aspects of it. >> thank you, ms. hutchinson. today, we're going to be focusing primarily on the events of january 5 and 6th at the white house. but to begin and to frame the discussion, i want to talk about a conversation that you had with mr. john ratcliffe, the director of national intelligence. and you had this conversation in december of 2020. mr. ratcliffe was nominated by president trump to oversee u.s.

intelligence -- our u.s. intelligence community. and before his appointnt, mr. ratcliffe was a republican member of congress. as you will see on this clip, director ratcliffe's comments in december of 2020 were prescient. >> my understanding was mr. -- director ratcliffe didn't want much to do with the post-election period. director ratcliffe felt that it wasn't something that the white house should be pursuing. it felt it was dangerous for the president's legacy. he had expressed to me that he was concerned that it could spiral out of control and potentially be dangerous, either for our democracy or the way that things were going for the 6th.

>> when you say it wasn't something the white house should be pursuing, what's the it? >> trying to fight the results of the election, finding missing ballots, pressuring -- filing lawsuits in certain states where there didn't seem to be significant evidence, and reaching out to state legislatures about that. so pretty much the way that the white house was handling the postelection period, he felt that there could be dangerous repercussions in terms of precedent set for elections, for our democracy, for the 6th. you know, he was hoping that we would concede. >> so ms. hutchinson, now we're going to turn to certain information that was available before january 4 and what the

trump administration and the president knew about the potential for violence before january 6. on the screen, you will see an email received by acting deputy attorney general donoghue on january 4 from the national security division of the department of justice. mr. donoghue testified in our hearings last week. the email identifies apparent planning by those coming to washington on january 6 to, "occupy federal buildings" in discussions of "invading the capitol building." here's what mr. donoghue said to us. >> and we knew that if you have tens of thousands of very obsessive people showing up in washington, d.c., that there was potential for violence. >> the u.s. secret service was looking at similar information and watching the planned demonstrations. in fact, their intelligence division sent several emails to white house personnel like deputy chief of staff tony

ornato and the head of the president's protective detail robert engel, including certain materials listing events like those on the screen. the white house continued to receive updates about planned demonstrations, including information regarding the proud boys organizing and planning to attend events on january 6. although ms. hutchinson has no detailed knowledge of any planning involving the proud boys for january 6, she did note this. >> i recall hearing the word "oath keeper" and hearing the word "proud boys" closer to the planning of the january 6 rally when mr. giuliani would be around. >> on january 3, the capitol police issued a special event assessment. in that document, the capitol police noted that the proud boys and other groups planned to be in washington, d.c., on january

six bank and indicated that "unlike previous post-election protests, the targets of the pro-trump supporters are not necessarily the counter-protesters as they were previously, but rather congress itself is the target on the 6th." of course, we all know now that the proud boys showed up on january 6, marched from the washington monument to the capitol that day, and led the riotous mob to invade and occupy our capitol. ms. hutchinson, i want to play you a clip of one of our meetings when you described a call on january 4 that you received from national security advisor robert o'brien on the same topic, potential violence on january 6. >> i received a call from robert o'brien, the national security advisor. he had asked if he could speak with mr. meadows abo potential

violent -- words of violence that he was hearing that were potentially going to happen on the hill on january 6. i had asked if he had connected with tony ornatobecause tony ornato had a conversation with him, with mark, about that topic. robert had said, i'll talk to tony, and then i don't know if robert ever connected with mark about the issue. >> ms. hutchinson, can you describe for us mr. ornato's responsibilities as deputy chief of staff? >> the deputy chief of staff position at the white house for operations is arguably one of the most important positions that somebody can hold. they're in charge of al security protocol for the campus and all presidential protectees, primarily the president and the first family. but anything that requires security for any individual that has presidential protection, so the chief of staff or the

national security advisor, as well as the vice president's team, too, tony would oversee all of that. and he was the conduit for security protocol between white house staff and the united states secret service. >> thank you. and you also described a brief meeting between mr. ornato and mr. meadows on the potential for violence. the meeting was on january 4. they were talking about the potential for violence on january 6. let's listen to a clip of that testimony. >> i remember mr. ornato had talked to him about intelligence reports. i just remember mr. ornato comi in and saying that we had intel reports saying that there could potentially be violence on e 6th. >> you also told us about reports of violence and weapons that the secret service were receiving on the night of january 5 and throughout the day january 6. is that corrt? >> that is correct. >> there are reports that police in washington, d.c., had arrested several people with

firearms or ammunition following a separate pro-trump rally in freedom plaza on the evening of january 5. are those some of the reports that you recall hearing about? >> they are. >> of course, the world now knows that the people who attacked the capitol on january 6 had many different types of weapons. when a president speaks, the secret service typically requires those attending to pass through metal detectors known as magnetometers, or mags for short. the select committee has learned that people who willingly entered the enclosed area for president trump's eech were screened so they could attend the rally at the ellipse. theyad weapons and other items that were confiscated -- pepper spray, knives, brass knuckles, tasers, body armor, gas masks, batons, blunt weapons. and those were just from the people who chose to go through the security for the president's event on the ellipse, not the

several thousand members of the crowd who refused to go through the mags and watched from the lawn near the washington monument. the select committee has learned about reports from outside the magnetometers and has obtained police radio transmissions identifying individuals with firearms, including ar-15's, near the ellipse on the morning of january 6. let's listen. >> there's an individual who is in a tree. it's going to be a white male, about six feet tall, thin build, brown cowboy boots. he's got jeans and a blue jean jacket, and underneath the jacket both saw stock of an , ar-15. he's going to be with a group of individuals, about 5 to 8 -- 5 to 8 other individuals. two of the individuals in that group at the base of the tree near the porta-pottys were wearing green fatigues, green

-- olive dress fatigues. about 5'8", 5'9", skinny -- skinny white males, brown cowboy boots. >> they had glock style pistols in their waistband. 8736-- that subject's weapon on his right hip. >> motor one, make sure ppd knows they have an elevated threat in the tree south side of constitution avenue. look for the don't tread on me flag, american flag facesk, cowboy boo, weapon on the right side hip. >> i got three men walking down the street in fatigues. one's carrying a ar-15. copy at 14th and independence. >> ar-15's at 14th and independence. as you saw in those emails, the first report that we showed we now know was sent in the 8:00 hour on january 6. this talked about people in the crowd wearing ballistic helmet and body armor, carrying radio equipment and military grade

backpacks. the second report we showed you on the screen was sent by the secret service in the 11:00 a.m. hour and it addressed reports of a man with a rifle near the ellipse. ms. hutchinson, in prior testimony you described for us a meeting in the white house around 10:00 a.m. in the morning of january 6 involving chief of staff meadows and tony ornato. were you in that meeting? >> i was. >> let's listen to your testimony about that meeting and then we'll have some questions. >> i think the last time we talked you mentioned that some of the weapons that people had at the rally included flagpoles, oversized sticks or flagpoles, bear spray. is there anything else that you recall hearing about that the -- the people who had gathered on the ellipse had? >> i recall tony and i having a conversation with mark probably around 10:00 a.m., 10:15 a.m.

where i remember tony mentioning knives, guns in the form of pistols and rifles, bear spray, body armor, spears, and flagpoles. spears were one item, flagpoles were one item. but then tony had related to me something to the effect of and these effing people are fastening spears onto the ends of flagpoles. >> ms. hutchinson, here's a clip of your testimony regarding mr. meadows' response to learning that the rally attendees were armed that day. >> what was mark's reaction -- mr. meadows' reaction to this list of weapons that people had in the crowd? >> when tony and i went in to talk to mark that morning, mark was sitting on his couch and on his phone which was something typical. and i remember tony just got right into it. he was like, sorry, i just want to let you know and informed him, like, this is how many people we have outside the mags right now. these are the weapons that we're going to have.

it's possible he listed more weapons off that i just don't recall. and gave him a brief but -- and concise explanation, but also fairly thorough. and i remember distinctly mark not looking up from his phone, right? i remember tony finishing his explanation and it taking a few seconds for mark to say his name. because i almost said, mark, did you hear him? and then mark chimed in. it was like, all right, anything else? still looking down at his phone. and tony looked at me and i looked at tony and he -- tony said no, sir. do you have any questions? he's like, what are you hearing? and i looked at tony and i was like, sir he just told you about what was happening down at the rallies. and he was like yeah, yeah. i know. and then he looked up and said , have you talked to the president?

and said yes, sir. , he's aware. he said, right, good. >> he asked tony if tony had informed the president -- >> yes. >> and tony said yes, he had. so ms. hutchinson, is it your understanding that mr. ornato told the president about weapons at the rally on the morning of january 6? >> that's what mr. ornato relayed to me. >> and here's how you characterized mr. meadows' general response when people raised concerns about what could happen on january 6. >> so at the time in the days leading up to the 6th, there were lots of public reports about how things might go bad on the 6th, even the potential for violence. if i'm hearing you correctly, what stands out to you is that mr. meadows did not share those concerns or at least did not act on those concerns. >> did not act on those concerns would be accurate. >> but other people raised them to him, like in this exchange you mentioned that mr. ornato pulled him aside. >> that's correct.

>> ms. hutchinson, we're going to show now an exchange of texts between you and deputy chief of staff ornato. and these text messages were exchanged while you were at the ellipse. in one text you write, but the crowd looks good from this vantage point. as long as we get the shot. he was effing furious. and the text messages also stress that president trump kept mentioning the otr, an off the record movement. we're going to come back and ask you about that in a minute. but could you tell us, first of all, who it is in the text who was furious? >> the he e in that that text i was referring to was the president. >> and why was he furious, miss hutchinson? >> he was furious because he wanted the arena that we had on the ellipse to be maxed out at capacity for all attendees. the advanced team had relayed to him that the mags were free flowing.

everybody who wanted to come in had already come in. but he still was angry about the extra space and wanted more people to come in. >> and did you go to the rally in the presideial motorcade? >> i was there, yes, in the motorcade. >> and were you backstage with the president and other members of his staff and family? >> i was. >> and you told us, ms. hutchinson, about particular comments that you heard while you were in the tent area. >> when we were in the offstage announce area tent behind the stage, he was very concerned about the shot -- meaning the photograph that we would get, because the rally space wasn't full. one of the reasons, which i've previously stated, was because he wanted it to be full and for people to not feel excluded because they had come far to watch him at the rally. and he felt the mags were at fault for not letting everybody in.

but another leading reason and likely the primary reason is because he wanted it full and he was angry that we weren't letting people through the mags with weapons, what the secret service deemed as weapons and are -- are weapons. but when we were in the offstage announce tent, i was part of a conversation -- i was in -- i was in the vicinity of a conversation where i overheard the president say something to the effect of, you know, i don't effing care that they have weapons. they're not here to hurt me. take that effing mags away. let my people in. they can march to the capitol from here. let the people in. take the effing mags away. >> just to be clear, ms. hutchinson, is it your understanding that the president wanted to take the mags away and said that the armed individuals were not there to hurt him? >> that's a fair assessment. >> the issue wasn't with the amount of space available in the official rally area only, but

instead that people did not want to have to go through the mags. let's listen to a portion of what you told us about that. >> in this particular instance, it wasn't the capacity of our space. it was the mags and the people that didn't want to come through. and that's what tony had been trying to relay to him that morning. yoknow, it's not the issues that we encounter on the campaign. we have enough space, sir. they don't want to come in right now. they -- they have weapons that they don't want confiscated by the secret service. and they're fine on the mall. they can see you on the mall and they want to march straight to the capitol from the mall. >> the president apparently wanted all attendees inside the official rally space and repeatedly said, "they're not here to hurt me." and just to be clear, so he was told again in -- in that conversation -- or was he told again in that conversation that people couldn't comehrough the mags because they had weapons?

>> correct. >> and that people -- and his response was to say they can march to the capitol from -- is it fm the ellipse? >> something to the effect of take the effing mags away. they're not here to hurt me. let them in. let my people in. they can march to the capitol after the rallies are over. they can march from -- they can march from the ellipse. take the effing mags away. then they can march to the capitol. >> ms. hutchinson, what we saw when those clips were playing were photos provided by the national archives showing the president in the offstage tent before his speech on the ellipse. you were in some of those photos as well. and i just want to confirm that that is when you heard the president say the people with weapons weren't there to hurt him and that he wanted the secret service to remove the magnetometers. >> that's correct. in the photos that you displayed we were standing towards the front of the tent with the tvs really close to where he would walk out to go on to the stage.

these conversations happened two to three minutes before he took the stage that morning. >> let's reflect on that for a moment. president trump was aware that a number of the individuals in the crowd had weapons and were wearing body armor. and here's what president trump instrued the crowd to do. pres. trump: we're going to walk down, and i'll be there with you. we're going to walk down -- we're going to walk down any one you want. but i think right here. we're going to walk down to the capitol. >> and the crowd as we know did proceed to the capitol. it soon became apparent to the secret service, including the secret service teams in the crowd, along with the white house staff, that security at the capitol would not be sufficient. in ago vice chair of the committee liz cheney questioning cassidy husted -- cassidy hutchinson.

when we come back, cassidy hutchinson accuses donald trump of attacking his own presidential secret service agent january 6 after the agent refused to drive trump to the capitol to join the armed mob gathering outside congress. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we bring you highlights of tuesday surprise hearing about the house select committee to investigate the january 6 attack on the united states capitol. we return to cassidy hutchinson,

former aide to trump's white house chief of staff mark meadows, questioned by republican committee co-chair liz cheney about what happened january 6 when then president trump motorcade left the so-called stop the steal rally where trump had encouraged his armed supporters to march on the capitol. >>'s hutchinson, when he returned to the white house in the motorcade after the president speech, where did you go? >> when i return to the white house, i walked upstairs toward the chief of staff's office and noticed mr. ornato lingering outside the office. he quickly waved me to go into his office just a costs the hall from mine. he shut the door and i noticed bobby engel, who was the head of mr. trump's security detail, sitting in a chair, just looking somewhat discombobulated and a little lost. i looked at tony and he had said, did you f'ing hear what happened in the beast? i said, no, tony, i -- i just got back.

what happened? tony proceeded to tell me that when the president got in the beast, he was under the impression from mr. meadows that the off the record movement to the capitol was still possible and likely to happen, but that bobby had more information. so once the president had gotten into the vehicle with bobby, he thought that they were going up tohe capitol. and when bobby had relayed to him we're not, we don't have the assets to do it, it's not secure, we're going back to the west wing, the president had a very strong, a very angry response to that. tony described him as being irate. the president said something to the effect of i'm the effing president, take me up to the capitol now. to which bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the west wing.

the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. mr. engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing. we're not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel. and when mr. ornato had recounted this story to me, he had motioned towards his clavicles. >> and was mr. engel in the room as mr. ornato told you this story? >> he was. >> did mr. engel correct or disagree with any part of this story from mr. ornato? >> mr. engel did not correct or disagree with any part of the story. >> did mr. engel or mr. ornato ever after that tell you that what mr. ornato had just said was untrue? >> neither mr. ornato nor mr. engel told me ever that it was untrue.

>> and despite this altercation, this physical altercation during the ride back to the white house, president trump still demanded to go to the capitol. here's what kayleigh mcenany, the white house press secretary at the time, wrote in her personal notes and told the committee about president trump's desire to go to the capitol after returning to the white house. >> when you wrote potus wanted to walk to the capitol, was that based solely on what the president said during his speech or anything that he or anybody else said afterwards? so to the best of my >>so to the best of my recollection, i believe when we got back to the white house he said he wanted to physically walk with the marchers. and according to my notes, he then said, you'd be fine with just writing --riding the beast

, but so that's my recollection. he wanted to be a part of the march in some fashion. >> all right. and just for the record, the piece refers to the presidential limousine? >> yes. >> president trump did not go to the capitol that day. we understand that he blamed mark meadows for that. >> so prior to leaving the rally site when he got off the stage and everybody was making the movement back to the motorcade, i had overheard mr. meadows say to him then, as i had prior to mr. trump taking the stage that morning, that he was still working on getting an off-the-record movement to the capitol. so when mr. trump took the stage, he was under the impression by mr. meadows that it was still possible. so when he got off the stage, i had relayed to mr. meadows that i had another conversation with tony. the movement was still not possible. mr. meadows said, ok. and then as they proceeded to go to the motorcade and mr. meadows had reiterated, we're going to work on it, sir.

talk to bobby. bobby has more information. mark got into his vehicle, to my understanding. trump got into the beast. and after we had all arrived back at the white house later in the day, it had been relayed to me via mark that the president wasn't happy that bobby didn't pull it off for him and that mark didn't work hard enough to get the movement on the books. >> the physical altercation that ms. hutchinson described in the presidential vehicle was not the first time that the president had become very angry about issues relating to the election. on december 1, 2020, attorney general barr said in an interview that the department of justice had not found evidence of widespread election fraud sufficient to change the outcome of the election. ms. hutchinson, how did the president react to hearing that news? >> around the time that i

understand the ap article went live, i remember hearing noise coming from down the hallway. so i poked my head out of the office. i saw the valet walking towards our office. he had said, get the chief down to the dining room. the president wants him. so mark went down to the dining room, came back to the office a few minutes later. after mark had returned, i left the office and went down to the dining room and i noticed that the door was propped open and the valet was inside the dining room changing the tablecloth off of the dining room table. he motioned for me to come in and then pointed towards the front of the room near the fireplace mantel and the tv, where i first noticed there was catsup dripping down the wall and there was a shattered porcelain plate on the floor. the valet had articulated that the president was extremely angry at the attorney general's ap interview and had thrown his

lunch against the wall, which was causing him to have to clean up. so i grabbed a towel and started wiping the catsup off of the wall to help the valet out. and he said something to the effect of, he's really ticked off about this. i woulstay clear of him for right now. he's really, really ticked off about this right now. >> and ms. hutchinson, was this the only instance that you are aware of where the president threw dishes? >> it's not. >> and are there other instances in the dining room that you recall where he expressed his anger? >> there were several times throughout my tenure with the chief of staff that i was aware of him either throwing dishes or flipping the tablecloth to let all the contents of the table go onto the floor and likely break or go everywhere.

>> and ms. hutchinson, attorney general barr described to the committee the president's angry reaction when he finally met with president trump. let's listen. >> and i said, look, i -- i know that you're dissatisfied with me and i'm glad to offer my resignation. and he pounded the table very hard and everyone sort of jumped and he said, accepted. amy: the last voice was william barr. we will have more in 30 seconds. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we bring you highlights from the dramatic testimony of tuesday surprise hearing of the house select committee to investigate the january 6 attack on the united states capitol, star witness cassidy hutchinson described how her then boss white house chief of staff part reacted to the rioters strong the capitol on january 6. she was questioned by his cheney. >> not long after the rioters broke into the capital, you described what happened with white house counsel pat cipollone he. >> no more than a minute later, i see pat cipollone barreling down the hall to our office and rushed in and looked at me and

said, is mark in his office? and i said, yes. he just looked at me and started shaking his head and went over -- opened mark's office door, stood there with the door propped open and said something to -- mark is still sitting on his phone. i remember like glancing and he's still sitting on his phone. and i remember pat saying to him something to the effect of, the rioters have gotten to the capitol, mark. we need to go down and see the president now. and mark looked up at him and said, he doesn't want to do anything, pat. and pat said something to the effect of -- and very clearly had said this to mark -- something to the effect of, mark, something needs to be done or people are going to die and the blood is going to be on your effing hands. this is getting out of control. i'm going down there. and at that point, mark set up from his couch, both of his phones in his hand. he had his glasses on still. he walked out with pat. he put both of this phones on my

desk and said, let me know if jim calls. and they walked out and went down to the dining room. >> a few minutes later, representative jordan called back. >> a couple minutes later, so likely around between 2:15, 2:25 -- i know the tweet went out at 2:24. i don't remember if i was there when the tweet went out or if it happened right afterwards, but jim had called. i answered the phone, said, one second. he knew it was -- i guess he knew it was -- and i introduced myself, but i -- i don't remember if he called my cell phone or if he had called one of mark's. but i answered the phone and said, one sec, mark's on the phone. i'm going to go hand the phone to him and he said, ok. so i went down. i asked the valet if mark was in the dining room. the valet said, yes. i opened the door -- the dining room, briefly stepped in to get mark's attention.

i showed him the phone, like flipped the phone his way so he could see it said jim jordan. he had stepped to where i was standing there holding the door open, took the phone, talking to jim with the door still propped open, so i took a few steps back. so i probably was two feet from mark. he was standing in the doorway going into the oval office dining room. they had a brief conversation. and in the crossfires -- you know, i heard briefly, like, what they were talking about, but in the background i had heard conversations in the oval dining room at that point talking about the hang mike pence chants. >> that cl ended, ms. hutchinson, with you recalling that you heard the president, mr. meadows, and the white house counsel discussing the hang mike pence chants and then you described for us what happened next. >> it wasn't until mark hung up the phone, handed it back to me.

i went back to my desk a couple of minutes later. him and pat came back, possibly eric herschmann, too. i'm pretty sure eric herschmann was there, but i'm -- i'm confident it was pat that was there. i remember pat saying something to the effect of, mark, we need to do something more. they're literally calling for the vice president to be effing hung. and mark had responded something to the effect of, you heard him, pat. he thinks mike deserves it. he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong, to which pat said something, this is effing crazy, we need to be doing something more. briefly stepped into mark's office, and when mark had said something -- when mark had said something to the effect of he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. knowing what i had heard briefly

in the dining room, coupled with pat discussing the hanging mike pence chants in the lobby of our office, and then mark's response, i understood "they're" to be the rioters in the capitol that were chanting for the vice president to be hung. >> let me pause here on this point. as rioters chanted "hangike pence," the president of the united states, donald trump, said that "mike deserves it," and that those rioters were not doing anything wrong. this is a sentiment that he has expressed at other tes as well. in an interview with abc news correspondent jonathan karl, president trump was asked about the supporters chantg hang mike pence last year. instead of condemning them, the former president defended them. >> saying "hang mike pence." pres. trump: because it's -- it's common sense, jon.

it's common sense that you're supposed to protect -- how can you -- if you know a vote is fraudulent, right, how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to congress? >> president trump's view that the rioters were not doing anything wrong and that "mike deserved it" helps us to understand why the president did not ask the rioters to leave the capitol for multiple hours. in fact, he put this tweet out at 2:24 p.m. ms. hutchinson, do you recall seeing this tweet in which the president said the vice president did not have the courage to do what needed to be done? >> i do. >> ms. hutchinson, what was your reaction when you saw this tweet? >> as a staffer that worked to always represent the

administration to the best of my ability and to showcase the good things that he had done for the country, i remember feeling frustrated and disappointed, and really it felt personal. i was really sad. as an american, i was disgusted. it was unpatriotic. it was unamerican. we were watching the capitol building get defaced over a lie, amy: she goes on to talk about donald trump's response to the insurrection. she is question by the house committee vice chair l cheney. >> inside the white house the president's advisors, including members of his family, wanted him to deliver a speech. pat philbin prepared the first draft of what would be the president's remarks on national

healing. delivered via pre-taped video on when he arrived at the white january 7. house on the 7th, mr. philbin believed that more needed to be said. so he sat down and started writing. he shared the draft with pat cipollone, who also believed the president neededo say more. mr. cipollone agreed with the content as did eric herschmann, who reviewed the draft. the committee has learned that the president did not agree with the substance as drafted and resisted giving a speech at all. ms. hutchinson, do you recall discussions about the president's speech on january 7? >> i do. >> let's listen, ms. hutchison, to what you told us about that and about the process of crafting those remarks. >> i learned from a conversation with mark and overhearing between him and white house counsel and eric herschmann as well that trump didn't necessarily think he needed to

do anything more on the 7th than what he had already done on the 6th. when he was convinced to put out a video on the 7th, he -- i understand that he had a lot of opinions about what the context of that announcement were to entail. i had original drafts of the speech where, you know, there were- several lines didn't make it in tre about prosecuting the rioters or calling them violent. he didn't want that in there. he wanted to put in there that he wanted to potentially pardon them. and this is just with the increased emphasis of his mindset at the time, which was he didn't think that they did anything wrong. he -- the people who did something wrong that day or the person who did something wrong that day was mike pence by not standing with him. amy: cassidy hutchinson

described how mark meadows and trump attorney rudy giuliani later sought pardons for the insurrection. this is liz cheney. >> did rudy giuliani ever suggest that he was interested in receiving a presidential pardon related to january 6? >> he did. >> ms. hutchinson, did white house chief of staff mark meadows ever indicate that he was interested in receiving a presidential pardon related to january 6? >> mr. meadows did seek that pardon. yes, ma'am. amy: in her closing statement tuesday, house january 6 committee vice chair liz cheney suggested witnesses trump allies have been intimidating committee witnesses. >> our nation is preserved by those who abide by their oath to ouronstitution. our nation is preserved by those who know the fundamental difference between right and wrong. and i want all americans to know that what ms. hutchinson has done today is not easy.

the easy course is to hide from the spotlight, to refuse to come forward, to attempt to downplay or deny what happened. that brings me to a different topic. while our committee has seen many witnesses, including many republicans, testify fully and forthrightly, this has not been true of every witness. and we have received evidence of one particular practice that raises significant concern. our committee commonly asks witnesses connected to mr. trump's administration or campaign whether they've been contacted by any of their former colleagues or anyone else who attempted to influence or impact their testimony. without identifying any of the individuals involved, let me ow you a couple of samples of answers we received to this question. first, here is how one witness described phone calls from

people interested in that witness' testimony. "what they said to me is as long as i continue to be a team player, they know i'm on the right team. i'm doing the right thing. i'm protecting who i need to protect, you know, i'll continue to stay in good graces in trump world." "and they have reminded me a couple of times that trump does read transcripts. and just keep that in mind as i proceed through my interviews with the committee." here's another sample in a different context. this is a call received by one of our witnesses. "a person let me know you have your deposition tomorrow. he wants me to let you know he's thinking about you. he knows you're loyal and you're going to do the right thing when you go in for your deposition." i think most americans know that

attempting to influence witnesses to testify untruthfully presents very serious concerns. amy: we end with general mike flynn who supported trump's efforts to overturn the election. during tuesday's hearing, the house committee aired excerpts of its video deposition with flynn who repeatedly refused to answer questions from hou committee vice chair liz cheney. >> you believe the violence on january 6 was justified morally? >> i take the fif. >> do believe the olence on january 6 was justified legally? >> fifth. >> general flynn, do you believe in a peaceful transition of power in the united states of america? >> the fifth. amy: "the fifth" so said president trump's former national security advisor general mike flynn in videotaped testimony. he was answering the questions

of committee vice chair commerce member liz cheney. if you want to see the full surprise hearing yesterday that lasted about two hours with cassidy hutchinson with various deposition testimony like mike flynn, go to democracynow.org. ñcñcñcñc

welcome, i am catherine kobayashi in new york. the man controlling the central bank has one eye on inflation as he tries to navigate a soft landing. the federal reserve chair said there was no guarantee. he says the clock is running to bring high prices down. he joined some of the