♪ >> this is al jazeera and these are the top stories. turkey has agreed to back finland and sweden in their bid to join nato. they made the agreement at the summit in madrid. theafter russia invaded ukraine, ending decades of neutrality. >> turkey a, finland, and sweden -- turkeiya, finland and sweden have signed a memorandum that addresses turkiya's

concerns including against terrorism. no ally has suffered more brutal attacks than turkey including from pkk. >> cassidy hutchinson said former president donald trump tried to seize the steering wheel of a white house limousine when he was told he would not be taken to the capitol where his supporters were rioting. u.s. authorities opened a criminal investigation after at least 50 migrant were found dead in an abandoned shack in texas. the bodies were discovered in san antonio, 200 50 kilometers-mexico border. president biden described the loss of life as horrifying and heartbreaking. the war in ukraine has dominated the summit of the world's seven richest nations. leaders wedged $4.5 billion to

help fight growing hunger, as the conflict pushes up global food prices. the commitment was made during the final day of the meeting. british socialite ghislaine maxwell has been sentenced to 20 years in prison for helping billionaire jeffrey epstein sexually abuse underage girls. the 60 year old apologized to the victims, saying she hooked sentence would bring them closer. talks between the ecuadorian government and indigenous groups to finish and nationwide if we'll strike have been suspended, following an attack on a military convoy. talks were due to resume on tuesday, but were called off after the attack after one soldier died and 12 others injured. the government accused the strike leaders of terrorism. those are the headlines. the news continues here on al jazeera, after "the big picture." goodbye.

♪ >> france is a country of contrasts. it's reputation for glamour and chic is probably projected to the outside world. but there is also a darker underbelly. [shouting] >> a fractious and fractured friends where the far-right has moved in from the fringes and increasingly set the national agenda, especially when it comes to muslims. paris may look like a celebration of diversity.

the multicultural capital city of the nation that prides itself on the values of liberty, equality, and fraternity. but those values do not hold true for everyone. i am miriam, and in this series, i will take a deeper look at some of the issues dividing france and its people. from the separation between church and state, france's reckoning with its colonial legacy through racism, islamophobia, and the crown on basic freedoms including the right to protest, to me, it feels like a fight over who we are as a nation, and what we really stand for. ♪ >> it sounds almost as if

they're saying some religious attitudes are unacceptable. >> this tendency to only found an echo chamber of our own thoughts has only be made easier . >> i think the misunderstanding of laicite is the biggest problem. the fact that some public figures weaponize it in order to stigmatize a part of the society. >> there is a very deep breakup between the muslims and the non-muslims. between the young people coming from the poor suburbs, and the rest of the society. the rest of the society fears young people and has nothing to say to them. ♪ >> this place is a key site of the french revolution, when laicite became a cornerstone of

the french republic. at the time it was about keeping the catholic church out of state affairs. the term is a french twist on secularism. too many people here, it is a sacred principle guaranteeing the equality of all people before the law. but these days it tends to pop up in debates over french identity, where it rather than being used to guarantee equality, something say it is being used to discriminate, especially against muslims. [chanting] at this grand mosque on the outskirts of paris, the imam leads afternoon prayers. muslim religious leaders have been asked to sign up to a charter of republican values. the so-called imam's charter, as

part of the french state's vision of an islam for france. as the prayer hall empties, i sit down with the imam to get his thoughts on the charter, and what laicite means to him. >> for me, laicite is -- [speaking in french] >> [speaking in french]

>> [speaking in french]

>> [speaking in french] >> there is obviously a battle over the meaning of laicite. the idea being to protect the states from the intrusion of the catholic church historically. some may see it as the neutrality of the state, some argue it is protection from religion, some argue that it is about stigmatizing muslims. why is laicite such a problem here in france? >> the problem lies in the definition of laicite. not laicite itself, a meeting the republic does not want the

religion to gain power on citizens. religion is seen as alienation. and islam is seen as an alienation not because it is islam, but because it is religion. >> the misunderstanding of laicite is a big problem. the fact that some politicians and public figures weaponize it in order to stigmatize a part of the society, saying that they are trying to get rid of the common lows and trying to have exceptional treatment, validating the idea that there is a problem not with laicite, but the problem with muslims. that is a different question and quite problematic. >> you are on the ground with young people. schools themselves have become a political battleground in many ways around the laicite issue. how is the laicite

discussion translating on the ground with young people? >> i believe the real conversation, the one that has to do with power is, do young people believe in the republic? the further away france drifts over its ideal, the harder it is for me to tell them that this republic is for you. for some people in france when they feel like their destiny is not the same as others' it is hard for them to adhere to the vision which is absolutely necessary in which teachers defend. as much as possible. i believe if there is an issue with young people and the way that they see the republic, it is a result of how france is doing as a whole, when it comes to fulfilling its promise. >> many of you will recall that last year president macron had brought about a new bill the so-called separatism bill when the law came about, it was specifically targeting what recall muslim separatism, what president macron referred to as islamist separatism in the bill.

you agree with critics who say the bill is just the latest example of singling out muslims for special treatment? >> absolutely. and there are people who grew up in segregated neighborhoods, may be the republic failed to integrate them, and then they had to organize differently. often what we believe is separatism is a way to self organize in order to try to compensate for the failures of the state, because they saw that the state was targeting them and stopping them from trying to be members of the society. >> the bill itself was aimed at targeting the idea that there was kind of extremism. separatism as a form of extremism. of course, france has been the target of terrorist attacks, there is no way of ignoring the fact that has happened here. but what is confusing for

perhaps many people internationally is the bill suggesting, you know, stopping women wearing full-length swimsuits at the pool and or stopping women wearing head scarves accompanying their children on school outings or what is the connection between this and separatism as it is thought of, as trying to combat the type of terrorism that france has been a victim of? >> i think we have to be reminded of the context. the context is what you said, in terrorist attacks. incredibly violent, against the french people. it is not separatism. the word is islamism. separatism law has not banned anything. the headscarf, you are free to wear it anywhere in france. it controls more the mosque. and i think it is better. for whom? the muslims. specifically the funding of the mosques. it tries to prevent the spreading of islamist

ideology. i think it is important to separate the debate and the reality of the law, because the reality of the law protects the muslim. and does not treat differently the muslims and the rest of the french believers. reporter: i believe maybe you are an optimist. [laughs] when i read the separatism go, it was not just about reinforcing and fighting against terrorism, because we have legal apparatus to fight terrorism. it is directly targeting the freedom of association and you have a lot of different muslim associations, which have been targeted and dissolved because of this law, and even before, because of the previous security law. you also have the freedom of religion which has been targeted , with shutdowns of different mosques. you have a lot of private religious schools were shut

down, muslim coffee shops, allegedly restaurants. i can only guess. even the trees, shops or actually closed down. i don't believe terrorists were hiding in butchery's, coffee shops and restaurants. but if you implement that way of thinking, of an old society, that can be very scary for muslims and for all religious people, actually. >> it be the net has been cast a little wide, hasn't it, hakeem? >> yeah,, probably. there is a player in the field which is absent and which should be in, the french muslim community. because the french are looking for the muslims. after the terrorist attacks, they said, ok, where are you guys? are you with us, or are you with them? >> is that the choice?

>> and one of the key problem is that we haven't seen the muslims and still now, we don't see the muslims on the ground, in the mosques, on the social networks to spread another interpretation of islam. so it is very, very important that the french muslims take their responsibility. they aren't guilty, but they are responsible. we need this kind of promotion, this new islam, this modern islam. >> i just want to talk about the idea that the wider muslim community is responsible for pushing back against extremism, terrorism. i wonder whether that is the responsibility of the wider muslim community, and what role, i suppose, this idea of the modern islam plays within that? >> i think it is the perfect situation in which we should just go back to the law. the law is the relationship

between churches and states, meaning that churches don't have the right to mingle, to interfere in civil matters, in civil affairs. but there is also the opposite of it, meaning that the state does not have the right to decide religious matters. we also assume that there is, like recall in sociology, negative solidarity, meaning that if any muslim somewhere in the world does something wrong, we should be responsible and feel uncomfortable for this person. that is an individual. he or she has their own reasons for acting and we should not be, as muslims or as women or as men, feeling responsible for that. for instance, the different terrorists were men. do you try to put some distance and take responsibility, saying that there is an issue with toxic m masculinity that we should talk about?

where does it end? >> from the outside looking in, it is almost as if the conversation in france is that laicite is a barrage to terrorism. is that how you are experiencing it in the school context, do you have students that you are concerned about their tendencies, about how conservative they are, and you think, if i just teach them more about laicite, they will become a good republican citizens? is that the thinking here people who kill one another and to be between 15 to 25. we have an issue with young people. there is also a far-right terrorist tendency that's been happening around europe. there is all this. you ask me, it's laicite enough to address the issue of extreme violence? no, it is not. what i do believe is when i hear people tell me that muslims have a right to a private education and that's because the public system is failing as it runs on

, that is where i respectfully disagree. we need a shared experience. something that makes a nation, a nation. over the past 10, 15 years this , tendency to only find an echo chamber of our own thoughts has only been made easier. that is a huge issue. and of course it has a consequence when it comes to the real people see religion. >> i want to talk about this charter of imams, because for people outside of france they're looking at the charter of imams , and they are saying, france is this country that is about secularism, secularism is a state staying out of religious affairs -- but then suddenly, it is the same state creating a charter for muslim religious leaders to sign up to. how to use clear that? >> it doesn't make sense. practically speaking, it is a joke. and the charter has been forgotten by all the actors. inside the charter, there was a word against foreign influences and against islamist

organizations. and who signed the charter for foreign-based organizations and islamist organizations? it didn't make any sense. >> do you think it sends a message to the wider population? because presumably, it was only imams that had to sign it, there was no similar charter for priests or pastors or rabbis. desert sand its own separatism or separatist message? >> absolutely, it is one of the examples in which you can see that the state doesn't respect the boundaries. within the charter, i believe it is article 9 there was something about, not being able to talk about state racism. i think it is really interesting. why in the charter of islam should we speak about the right or not to speak about a problem with structural racism? with systemic racism? there is something very political in the charter.

>> but what is confusing in listening to the debate is i think that laicite is, or secularism in general, is almost supposed to be this tool that allows all these different religious communities to co-exist without interfering with the state and the state doesn't interfere with them . that is the point of secularism, isn't it? >> yeah, but we have to remind the security context. for the government, for the french politicians from the writer from the left, he has to deal with security. he has to reassure the rest of french society. and there is an issue with certain french muslims. . a lot of terrorist attacks have formed by french muslims. the confusion is made by them. that is why i call the french muslim to say, "not in my name." like in the u.k. i think it is very important. >> it is interesting that we don't tend to do that with any other group.

i would love to see every time there is an attack on the mosque , all the right wing organizations in society saying "we don't approve of this." there is actually a lot of silence around the number of the attacks -- >> muslims will be shot or far-right activist, the policy will change. >> ok, when he say that, you say that they are french and they are muslims. but they are french muslims, and they were shot. >> yeah. they had to pay the price of blood and to pay the price of be dignity, saying that they are not the same as the terrorists. >> and it did nothing to improve their situation. >>. >> i don't agree, there are a lot of muslims who actually said, "not in my name." i do not have to work about saying that, "not in my name." >> about the relationship

between the wider inequalities and the conversation on laicite, we are talking about a country in which people of muslim origin are, already less likely to be employed, more likely to live in poor neighborhoods, and less likely to good health care. is laicite functioning as an equalizer in schools, or functioning as a proxy that reinforces some of that stigmatization? >> secularism is absolutely a necessity, and it does help. it helps insofar as we understand it. we can have a long conversation on how to address extreme violence, for instance, or separatism, by saying, here's what you shouldn't do, here's what you cannot be. once you have said -- here is what you don't get to be or you don't get to be, now we need to have a conversation with young people especially on, here is what you can become. not just say "you can't do that or be that."

but help draw the face of someone they could aspire to be. this is where we fail as teachers. . the national education does it best. but as a society, we failed to do that. >> laicite, is it functioning as a tool that adds to pre-existing inequalities reinforcing them or an equalizing tool in modern france? >> france is a western country with the highest level of intermarriage between french people and specifically muslim people. so we are facing a french paradox. very open. very close. in the middle of the paradox is the idea of universalism. if you are like us, we will be open to you. if you are not like us, we will be against you. you know, the french restricted the conception of universalism.

but if you are like us, we will marry you. so laicite is also a way to be more open. >> i believe muslims can marry other muslims and still be integrated. and french people can be open and not marry a muslim, and that will be ok, too,. it is obvious that they are political and social reasons for what is happening right now and the conflict -- i don't know how to call it -- the tension in france. if you are poor in france, it takes six generations -- not one, not three, serrations to get out of poverty. it is a lot. especially if you consider that because of historical reasons, to immigrations, muslims are members of this disadvantaged class and if we don't have public policies addressing that , i believe in 10 years will have exactly the same debate. it is a no go to me. ♪

>> what's very apparent here in france is that everyone agrees that laicite is a really important part of the french tradition. that much is not in question. what is in question is the substance of that term, how it is being used. clearly for some, protection from the state's intrusion into the private sphere. but ironically for others, it does exactly the opposite. what seems to be at stake is a struggle over what it means to be french and who gets to define it. ♪ >> [speaking in french]>> [shouting] >> [speaking in french] >> it is very confusing when you grew up here and you don't have

this sense of belonging, and also that society keeps telling you that you don't belong. ♪ ñcñcñcñc?

>> how many people are interested in a backpacking trip? we're talking about real adventure. this stuff changes who youre. >> just taking it all in, also mind, power trick i think. >> getting to the top, i felt like ias on top of the world. >> when i get back home, i'm gonna be totally changed. >> real talk, we go! [ambient music] - [announcer]: major funding for reel south was provided by: etv endowment, the national endowment for the arts, center for asian-american media,