07/01/22 /01/22 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> what the supreme crt did today was to eviscerate the authority ofhe epa to protect our planet, to deal with the four alarm fire that is affecting every single part of the world that we live in.

amy: in another 6-3 decision, the u.s. supreme court has sharply limited the environmental protection agency's power to regulate carbon emissions from power plants. it's a victory for big polluters but a potential disaster for the planet. we will speak to former epa official mustafa ali as ketanji brown jackson is sworn in as the first black female justice. the supreme court also ruled that president biden can end the trump-era remain in mexico program. we will go to san antonio where 53 people seeking refuge in the united states died earlier this week after being confined to sweltering tractor trailer in texas. the deadliest human trafficking tragedy in u.s. story. >> in this case, it is both the attack fm our governor in

texas and the complicity and enabling of the biden administration. amy: plus, we will speak to the dutch physician dr. rebecca gomperts who has dedicated her life to helping expand access to abortion from providing them on ships in international waters to sending abortion pills around the world. we will look at the growing fight in the united states over medical abortion. >> i think this is not a moment anymore to stay within the law. this is the moment to make sure that women have access to safe abortions. despite the law and despite the fact because it is such an unjust law that it is creating so much social inequality and will affect really the most poor women in the country. a make of this as over 180 people are arrested in washington, d.c., protesting the supreme court overturning roe.

all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the supreme court has voted to sharply limit the environmental protection agency's power to regulate carbon emissions from power plants. the courts 6-3 ruling in the case of west virginia v. epa is seen as a major victory for the fossil fuel industry and a result of a decades long attempt to limit the regulation of corporations. liberal justice elena kagan slammed the decision writing for the dissent -- "the court appoints itself, instead of congress or the expert agency, the decisionmaker on climate policy. i cannot think of many things more frightening." joining the majority opinion was trump appointee justice amy coney barrett, whose father helped lead the american petroleum institute for two decades.

we will have more on the supreme court and the climate crisis after headlines. environmental groups have filed a pair of lawsuits seeking to block the biden administration from restarting lease sales for oil and gas wells on public lands in western states. together, the lawsuits seek to protect more than 140,000 acres of public land after president biden called on the u.s. to expand fossil fuel drilling to offset a spike in fuel costs linked to russia's invasion of ukraine. public citizen president robert weissman said -- "selling off more public lands for drilling might help big oil, but it won't lower gas prices and it will worsen climate chaos." in lisbo portugal, hundreds of protesters marched thursday outside the u.n. ocean conference demanding meaningful action to halt pollution, protect marine life, and slow the warming of the earth's seas. the conference brought together some 7000 scientists, activists, and heads of state including

-- greenpeace oceans policy adviser laura meller spoke at a protest outside the talks. >> the ocean destroys are out there depleting the oceans as we speak. amy: back in the united states, the supreme court announced thursday it will hear oral arguments this october in moore v. harper, a case involving gerrymandered congressional maps that were struck down by north carolina's highest court. a supreme court ruling in favor of north carolina republicans could strip state courts of their power to strike down state laws, while expanding the power of gop-controlled state legislatures to control federal elections. the court agreed to hear moore v. harper one day after it ruled 6-to-3 to reinstate a republican-drawn congressional map struck down by a lower court as a racially-motivated violation of the voting rights act.

new york democratic compass member alexandria ocasio-cortez tweeted in response -- "we are witnessing a judicial coup in process. if the president and congress do not restrain the court now, the court is signaling they will come for the presidential election next." the supreme court ruled 5-to-4 thursday that the biden administration may end the trump-era remain in mexico program, formally known as the migrant protection protocols, or mpp. chief justice john roberts wrote in the majority opinion that a lower court had overreached when it found the policy should remain in place after president biden ordered it rescinded last year. since the program's implementation in 2019, some 70,000 asylum seekers were forced to wait in mexico while their cases were resolved in u.s. courts. thousands enrolled in mpp reported being kidnapped, raped, tortured and facing homelessness ile they wted in mico. we'll have more on this sto

later in the broadcast. in san antonio, texas, the alleged driver of the truck where dozens of asylum seekers died after they were trapped in a scorching heat made his first appearance in court homero thursday. zamorano is facing human smuggling charges resulting in the death of 53 people. three others have also been arrested in connection to the tragedy. meanwhile, a number of immigrant justice advocates the border city of el paso, texas, held a vigil to honor the san antonio victims and the thousands of other asylum seekers who've lost their lives trying to reach the united states for refuge. >> our only crime is to have need. we don't come to steal or commit crimes but rather to work, to help our families. each one of these crossings does not represent just one person. there are families, children, and siblings behind all of this. bend each person who just died.

amy: we will have more on the deadliest human trafficking incident in u.s. history in san antonio after the headlines. french authorities have arrested at least 10 suspected smugglers in connection to the drownings of 27 asylum seekers near calais as they attempted to cross the english channel. the tragedy happened last november. one of the victims was seven years old. back at the supreme court, ketanji brown jackson was sworn in thursday as the 116th justice and the first black woman to hold the position in the court's 233-year history. at a noon ceremony, chief justice john roberts administered jackson a constitutional oath. she then took a judicial oath ministered by return justice stephen breyer, whom jackson clerked for after she graduated from harvard law school in 1996. outside the supreme court,

police arrested more than 180 reproductive rights protesters thursday as they peacefully blocked an intersection in a massive show of nonviolent civil disobedience. the protest took place just six days after the court's conservative majority voted to strike down roe v. wade. 6-3 among those detained was reverend william barber, co-chair of the poor people's march, and democratic u.s. congressmember judy chu of california. melanie d'arrigo, a progressive democrat running for congress in long island, new york, said after her arrest -- "i was let go after a couple of hours -- but for millions of people in states where abortion, a critical health procedure, is now criminalized, their arrests will be far longer and far more severe." a court in kentucky has temporarily blocked the state's so-called trigger law abortion ban from taking effect.

lawyers for kentucky's only two abortion providers are reviewing thursday's ruling to determine when the louisville clinics can restart abortion care. in florida, a judge has temporarily blocked a state law banning abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy. lawmakers in florida's republican-led state legislature are reportedly planning to introduce even more restrictive anti-abortion bills. on thursday, president biden called on senate democrats to agree to a carveout filibuster exception to use of the filibuster in order to pass new reproductive rights legislation. pres. biden: i believe we have to codify roe v. wade n the law, and the way to do that is to make sure that congress votes to do that. and if the filibuster gets in the way, like voting rights, it should be provided an exception for this does require an

exception of the filibuster. amy: biden was speaking from the nato summit in madrid. in response, the offices of democratic senators joe manchin of west virginia and kyrsten sinema of arizona said they will not agree to a carveout to the filibuster to codify abortion rights. ukrainian officials say russian missile slammed into a high-rise apartment building and a recreation centein the bck sea port city of odesa overnight, killing at least 19 people and wounding dozens of others. in russia, wnba star brittney grin appeared today bore a court outside moscowhere she ces up to 10 years in prison. brittney griner was detained on february 17 after she was picked up at a russian airport on algationof carrying cannabis oil vape cartridges. her supporters say russia is using her as a political pawn. "the new york times" reports the

kremlin appears interested in a possible prisoner exchange involving griner and viktor boot, an infamous arms trafficker known as the "merchant of death" who was sentenced to 25 years in a u.s. prison in 2012 for conspiracy to commit terrorism. in sudan, government forces shot and killed at least eight people thursday as huge crowds of protesters defied a communications blackout and took to the streets to demand the ouster of a military junta that seized power eight mons ago. and in ecuador, indigenous leaders have reached a deal with the government, ending nearly three weeks of massive protests due to rising food and fuel prices. the deal includes a decrease in fuel costs, sets limits to oil exploration on indigenous land, and prohibits mining on protected areas, national parks, and water sources. the government has been given 90 days to act. indigenous leaders have vowed to push the government to fulfill all demands.

and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in another 6-3 decision, the supreme court has sharply limited the environmental protection agency's power to regulate carbon emissions from power plants. president biden decried the ruling as "another devastating decision that aims to take our country backwards." the court's ruling in the case of west virginia v. epa is seen as a major victory for the fossil fuel industry and a result of a decades long attempt to limit the regulation of corporations. in his majority opinion, chief justice john roberts writes -- "capping carbon dioxide emissions at a level that will force a nationwide transition away from the use of coal to generate electricity may be a sensible 'solution to the crisis

of the day. but it is not plausible that congress gave epa the authority to adopt on its own such a regulatory scheme." liberal justice elena kagan slammed the decision writing -- "whatever else this court may know about, it does not have a clue about how to address climate change. and let's say the obvious. the stakes here are high. yet the court today prevents congressionally authorized agency action to curb power plants' carbon dioxide emissions." justice kagan went on to write -- "the court appoints itself -- instead of congress or the expert agency -- the decisionmaker on climate policy. i cannot think of many things more frightening." on capitol hill, new york congressmember jamal bowman warned the court's ruling will have deadly fects. >> cleaning up therid is the only way to regulate greenhouse

gas emissionfrom the power sector. so let's be ve clear. this is yet anoth vicious wer grab. d if we let tm get away with it, people will die. because of the reaning used of the justices, this ruling could potentially undermine allinds of regulations that are about saving lives and promoting well-being. we cannot, we must not, and we will not let this court stops. the biden administration must declare a climate urgency immediately and use every single power at its disposal. amy: that is congress member jamaal bowman. we are joined now by mustafa ali. he is the former head of the environmental justice program at the environmental protection agency. he is the executive vice president of the national wildlife federation. he is also the ceo and founder of revitalization strategies.

welcome back to democracy now! first respond to t court's ruling. >> this radical core, the decision they came down with, it is dply disappointing. it is also destabilized and it is deadly. my grandmothers has would you know better, do better. the court knew better and decided not to do better. because of that, they put people's lives in danger and have also put in place steps that will accelerate the climate crisis. we have to continue to engage with front-line communities to make sure they're going to have the resource they need to be able to navigate this decision as their lives are literally put in the crosshairs. amy: tell us what the original case, west virginia versus epa is, how this all began. >> it began because of the clean power plant. we need to go back to the clean air act and just share with

everyone that congress stated at that time the -- the environment protection agency has a responsibility to make sure they were addressing the public health and the environment. fast-forward to the clean power plant, which was aptly put in place to be able to minimize the impacts that were happeningrom carbon pollution, to put in place the rules that are necessary to make sure we have a safety net across our country and to be able to lower the carbon emissions. so the case that they brought forward in a number of states who did not want epa to be able to have the ability to do that. and as stated earlier, was driven by the fossil fuel-producing states and those industries where the main drivers. amy: the ruling comes at a time when climate scientists are urging rich nations to significantly cut down greenhouse gas emissions and

divest from fossil fuels. of course, this not only impacts the united states, this decision will reverberate around the world. talk about how it will impact the u.s.'s plan to cut carbon emissions by, what, 50% by the end of the decade, something president biden reference. >> it makes it so much more difficult to achieve the goals of the ipcc. domestically, just to actlly anchor folks with facts, we have between 200000 and 300,000 people who die prematurely from air pollution. a part of it also comes from coal-fired power plants. not only lowering the carbon emissions, but to also have nitrogen oxides, mercury, particulate matter.

we know those things exacerbate asthma. 24 million folks, 7 million kids currently have asthma. all of this makes it difficult. folks who deal with the additional impacts of our most vulnerable community's and lower emissions the warming of our planet and oceans, on a global scale, and also puts us in a very precarious situation because folks look to us for guidance and leadershi we know we have a cop coming up at the end of this year and was again when we enter -- when we begin the development of the international treaty, folks are looking at our country to see we are living up to the wordse are sharing with the rest of the planet. so we have to begin to move forward in much more serious way on climate action. amy: you're talking about the conference of parties, the u.n. summit taking place in egypt. i want to turn to massachusetts democrat senator ed markey responding to the supreme court's ruling. >> became every pollur's ally.

and by undmining the fundamental authority, which the epa has to regulate greenhouse gases, i has harmed every person in our country but it has also undermined america's ability to be a leader internationally. we are going to have a difficulty in telling the re of the world what to do when our own supreme court is tyi the hands of the epa behind its back. it is an absolute tragedy. the on answer ultimately is to repeal the fibuster to expand the supreme court to reclaim the two supreme court seats that were stolen by donald tmp and mitch mcconnell between 2016-2020. amy: that is massachusetts democratic senator ed markey.

your response to what he says? then specifically as you talk about asthma, you are -- you are the environmental justice head of it, the program at the epa, which goes to the issue of the disproportionately impacted communities of color in this country, but you look more globally at the world and who is most affected when the u.s. is historically the largest polluter in the world. >> senator markey was exactly right. leadership matters. we saw in the past administration there was no leadership. in this administration, president biden put forth a number of initiatives where he is trying to not only get his arms around the, crisis, but also create opportunities for us to create new jobs and make sure we are strengthening communities. when we look in a global context on the impact happening, when we look at the wildfires and the hurricanes and the floods that

are not only happening in our country and the extreme heat events, we understand they disproportionately impact communities of color and lower wealth communities both in our country and across the planet. we know black folks die at twice the rate when dealing with extreme heat. and because of the lack of investments for decades when we look at the floods happening, it is our most vulnerable communities who continue to get hit first and worst from the floods, from the hurricanes, and a number of other events tied to the climate crisis. in this moment, we have the opportunity to not only show leadership to make sure $550 billion the senate had the opportunity to move forward on that will help us to address the climate crisis, to rebuild communities, and make sure we're protecting the lives of everyone in our country but there will be ripple effects also across the planet because as we make advances in this country, others will be able to take advantage of those. we have a responsibility in this

moment not only to act, but to show real leadership and show humanity in this moment. amy: the question is supreme court decision? 14 states haveued the biden administration tend a pause on new oil and gas leasing on federal lands. can you put this in the context of the supreme court decision? >> when the supreme court said this does ash sent this decision down, it is motivated those who have not been supporters. let's be clear, the majority of the reason folks are not being supportive in those states is because they are placing profit over people. we have to raise our voices. we should be engaging with o senators and folks on the house de of the equation. should also be engaging with those in the statehouse to make sure they know what our expectations are, so they know we want them to protect our future and our most vulnerable communities. and we have to make sure folks

are also dedicating the resources that other less developed countries will need to also be able to navigate this. all of this is literally at our fingertips. the resources exist and they are there on capitol hill to be able to help the president and others to be able to move forward and to address these cases that are coming up through the various states. amy: we want to thank you for being with us, mustafa ali, former head of the environmental justice program at the environmental protection agency. just to be clear, environmental groups have filed a pair of lawsuits seeking to block the biden administration from restarting lease sales for oil and gas wells on public lands. coming up, the supreme court ruled president biden can end the trump era remain in mexico program. we will go to san antonio where 53 people seeking refuge died earlier this week in the

deadliest human trafficking incident in u.s. history. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "barrio y diaspora" by mexican rap artist audrey funk. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the supreme court sided with the biden administration on thursday saying the president has the power to end the trump-era remain in mexico program, formally known as the migrant protection protocols, or mpp. the ruling was 5-4 with chief justice roberts and brett kavanaugh joining the court's three liberal justices in the majority. in his majority opinion, roberts wrote a lower court had overreached when it blocked biden from to rescind it last -- from rescinding the program last year. since the program's implementation in 2019, some 70,000 asylum seekers were forced to wait in mexico while their cases were resolved in u.s. courts. thousands enrolled in mpp

reported being kidnapped, raped, tortured, or left without shelter while they waited in mexico. the ruling comes just days after 53 people seeking refuge in the united states died after being confined in a sweltering tractor trailer in san antonio, texas. four people have been arrested related to the tragedy, including the alleged driver of the truck. we go now to san antonio where we are joined by claudia muñoz, co-executive director of grassroots leadership, an organization dedicated to ending mass incarceration, deportation, criminalization, and prison profiteering. she recently wrote an op-ed for truthout headlined "u.s. immigration policy is to blame for the horrific mass death in san antonio." welcome to democracy now! if you could start, claudia, five talking about the supreme court decision and then how it relates to the horror that has

been exposed in san anton where you are. >> thank you for having me today. i think in terms of the decision, it is a welcome decision for us. it has to go back to the lower court that initially made the decision. then we still have other programs such as title 42 that have a similar impact on migration and people's lives. i think for us, what we are saying is all of the policies at the end of the day force people into violent pathws emigration because as long as we have these policies that are really based on control and exclusion, people will be turned away. with both ted a 42 still existing -- title 42 still existing, it is great mpp will seemingly be done away with soon, but title 42 is funded for another six months by congress --

amy: title 42 is the trump pandemic policy of just citing the pandemic as a reason to keep people out of the united states. >> yes. absolutely. as long as this exclusionary policy exists, people will find other ways to migrate that are most more violent and deadly, which is what happened in san antonio on monday. amy: i want to go to a clip of an lgbtq+ asylum seeker from honduras who was placed in the remain in mexico program. there were forced to wait in the border city tami goodlette of matamoros -- matamoros for two and half years. this is what they said. >> i slept by the river under some tense and saw how narc ghost or murderers, people of that sort, -- they would go and find women to rape them, children stop i saw

people dying. when you don't pay kidnapper or so-called rent, what happens is they pour acid on you will stop so if i'm escaping from a country where i will be killed and they send me to another country where i will also be killed for any reason, they are not helping us. amy: that is video from families belong together, gloria from honduras. claudia muñoz, the court says you can end mpp, but how will the biden administratiodo it? >> well, we are not sure. we are still waiting to see the exact way. the decision has to go back to the lower court and then another decision has to be made. for us, seeing all this debt around us, we are asking that some bold action is taken so we can prevent more death from happening which i will say every

single migration-related death is preventable by policy that actually focuses on -- we are hoping whatever is decided by the administration is based on those values and not exclusion and control. amy: let's talk about how u.s. policy relates to the horror of human smuggling that we have seen unfold outside san antonio. at this point, 53 migrants dead and at the back of a sweltering tractor-trailer truck. we believe at least four children and about 12 others are in hospital. the horror we have heard reports of it is just sort of leaking out right now that steak seasoning was put over people to disguise the smell. i want to turn to the mother of

23-year-old alejandro andino and 18-year-old fernando redondo caballero, two honduran asylum seekers who were among the dead in the san antonio tragedy. >> if it was as in other countries where we can ask for a law or organization to fight for the youth's future, is that possible? no. but if i had to demand something, please, honduras government, fight for this country's youth. karen caballero's daughter-in-law margie tamara was also among the victims. talk about what you understand took and how this relates to u.s. policy, claudia. >> we know this is not a strategy that just happened. this was done to these human beings by the borders and those in power who uphold them and fund them every single year.

we know it is preventable. we know as long as people are being turned away, they will find other paths, particularly in texas migration has been extremely violent, has been made to be extremely violent by state policy and really by the complicity and enabling of the biden administration, stopping all of the states that are taking immigration into their own hands. with the idea the policies will keep people away, it is not going to happen, particularly the conditions this mother is mentioning, global conditions are worsening. state, local, and federal policies in place, then people will continue to die which we called preventable deaths. this should not be happening. what happen in texas and other places is absolutely devastating. these people, all of them should be here. there are groups asking that

pieces are provided -- visa are provided to the families and protection is provided to the families. amy: can you talk about the anti-immigrant texas policy such as operation lodestar? there also contribute into asylum-seekers dying. it is amazing. operation lodestar, the full militarization of the southern u.s. border, they were part of the group in uvalde who did not move in to save the 19 children, fourth-graders, and their two parents, even as they stood in the hallway. yet operation loan star, the militarization is massive. explain what it means for migrts. in march of last year, governor abbott and a group of 25 other governors around the country

organize themselves, what they called an effort to secure the southern border. this operation is a 4 billion-dollar operation which effectively deploys even more law enfororcement than -- they're using an emergency orde to create an enhanced trespassing charge. they charged over 3000 people. some were in a state prison that were cleared out. up to a year. there are so many constitutional violations in terms of conditions, bail. i can't even begin to fully cover it. what is happening the federal government has completely let texas get away with it. amy: before we go, i want to quickly ask you about the efforts that are being made right now, immigrant rights activists manning to protect the

survivors of this human smuggling tragedy from portation. do you know how they will be protected, if they will be granted -- allowed to be in this country? >> what we know is dhs, department of homeland security, took over the investigation which raises red flags for what will happen to the survivors and to the families of those whose lives were taken away. i know groups are asking for the federal government and local governments to certify new visa, trafficking visa, ensure that people are not deported who are cooperating with the investigation but also the families of those whose lives were taken away. all efforts are being made to protect those lives as well as efforts to prevent this from happening ever again. amy: claudia, thank you for being with us co-executive , director of grassroots

leadership and we will link to your piece in truthout "u.s. immigration policy is to blame for the horrific mass death in san antonio." coming up, we speak to a dutch doctor who has been providing abortion medication. back in 20 seconds. ♪♪ [music break] amy: "so we won't forget" by khruangbin. this is democracy now! i'm amy goodman. protests are continuing acro the country over the supreme court's overturning of roe v. wade. on thursday, police arrested more than protesters outside the 180 supreme court as they peacefully blocked an intersection in a massive show of nonviolent civil disobedience.

we end today's show looking at how demand for abortion pills is surging in the united states following the ruling. but access to medication abortion is coming under attack by anti-abortion politicians. earlier this week, i spoke with dr. rebecca gomperts, a dutch doctor who for years has defied abortion bans and restrictions around the world, prescribing abortion pills from overseas through her europe-based organizations women on web and aid access. s's also the founder of women on waves, which set sail around the world to provide safe abortion services in international waters off the coast of countries where abortion is illegal and delivered abortion pills across borders using drones or robots. i asked dr. gomperts to explain what medication abortion is. >> medication abortion is a treatment which uses two types of medicine. it is basically inducing a miscarriage. one drug is blocking the hormone

necessary to keep the pregnancy intact. 24 hours later, this medicine does not have much side effects, nothing much happens. but 24 hours, they get four of the other tablets and this is causing the contractions of the womb so the pregnancy is being expelled. thprocess is similar to miscarriage. it is extremely safe. safer than many over-the-counter painkillers available and safer than viagra. amy: now if we can go back and you can talk about your response to the supreme court decision making -- well, gutting roe v. wade after half a century. >> i already initiated aid access which is an austrian organization, inhe response of need in the unitedtates. we found there were already many

women in the u.s. that have real problems to access abortion services locally because clinics charged -- a charge. many people are living in poverty and could not afford the fees asked by the clinics. but also to travel to large distances. we published a lot of research about this together with texas university. when we started, we did not foresee this what happened but since the supreme court -- the draft league, may, we saw an incredible surge in requests from all over the united states. i now work with nine u.s. providers that are providing prescriptions for the states where they are licensed. there are 19 states where there working in which filled by a pharmacy from the united states.

i do the other states where i provide prescription and in t medicines armailed from india. so we can serve all of the states in united states. amy: how much do the drugs cost? >> there is a sliding scale. for services i prescribe, we are asking around 95 euros, which is about $100. the other providers, because the medicines are a bit more expensive in t u.s., are asking 150 dollars. but women that cannot afford that amount, the is a sliding scale. so everybody will be helped. amy: so you have people at the south dakota governor saying she's going to try to stop these pills. the health and human services secretary becerra and merrick garland have made the point, the attorney, that the fda has

approved these drugs. so how can your mailing of these pills be stopped? and telemedicine appointments overall? >> so, i think -- what i think is happening now, what a lot of the states are doing, republican states where where abortion is being banned, it is a bullying tactic to scare people. the united states is also known for its judicial injustice, where many people once you are being prosecuted or an attempt is being made, it is really hard to fight back. so it will scare off many people, this kind of language. aid access cannot be stopped. i am not based in the united states. i am practicing according to austrian law and ethical

guidelines in my own conscience. the other doctors i work with, they are not working inside -- it doesn't affect them. i think what is the problem with what is being stat is -- so these regulaons, they n be applied to people within the states where theseans are being imposed, but with the other supreme court decisions which are actually also -- might even reduce the authority of some of the federal agents, we don't know where it is going to head. amy: it might surprise many in the u.s. to learn that already more than half the abortions in the united states are these dedication abortions --

medication abortions. can you talk about side effects or what people should be concerned about? >> i think it is important to understand the consequence of covid. with covid, telemedicine has become mainstream medical care overall, not just abortion but many of the medical services are delivered now by telemedicine. the telemedical abortion services which can only be done with abortion pills, it is extremely safe. it is the same as a miscarriage and actually safer than a miscarriage because people can plan it. you can plan to be your a first aid center when you take -- when the woman takes the pills. the side effects are bleeding and cramping and sometimes women can have a little bit of nausea or diarrhea. the complications are extremely rare but i will mention them.

sometimes the pills don't work in 1% of the cases, but in you can repeat the doses and then you have another 99% chance it will work. sometimes they abortion is not completend what happens then is women can experience too much bleeding. one of the things that people can do in order to treat that or prevent it is take extra dose of one of the drugs, the second drug. because a second drug is causing thcontractions which will then empty the womb and the bleeding will stop as well. the other publication is an infection, which is even more rare and only happens when there is already a pre-existing infection. what we say is there are a few symptoms women have to wat out for, which is bleeding -- which is more than filling of two maxi pads or when people have a fever for more than 24 degrees. in that case, they would need to look for medical care in order to check whether they need any follow-up care or not.

the pills are safe to use until 12 weeks of pregnancy. it is supported by the wealth -- health and is until 12 weeks. it shows it is effective and safe to use up until 16 to 17 weeks. what is important is if people want to use it even later in pregnancy, that they are near our first aid facilities so if there is a complication, they can be treated because it is very similar to miscarriage. they don't have to say they have an abortion, they can say they had a miscarriage and there's no way any doctor or other health care provider will find out they used the medication. of course, there is concerns people might be put under pressure to confess that they did the abortion themselves and that they might be criminalized. and so sometimes the states are overstepping their boundaries.

this happened in texas when a woman was actually arrested after taking abortiodrugs. but in the u.s., women are not criminal when they induce their own abortions early in pregnancy. there is another organization called if, when, and how who is a real -- will support women with legal assistance if they were to face any legal problems. amy: your reaction to this news that instagram and facebook are removing posts offering abortion pills, dr. gomperts? >> well, we have been censored off and on by facebook and instagram and google and many of the other for more than 10 years. so this is one of the main problems. abortion pills is a solution for a large part of the people living in thunited states. but theroblem is, they will need to have to find the services that can be provided to them.

and google plays an important role and algorithms, they make it hard to find services that are available on top of the censorship that is there. and this is really unfortunate and really difficult to find it because these cpanies, they are not transparent. nobody knows where to complain when this is happening. so there has to be a lot of public pressure put on them i think to make sure instead of censoring it, they will promote these kinds of posts. one of the problems you said, people now will take advantage so there might be people who say they are offering medication abortion and they are not providing it and they're just collecng money. that is y these bans are so harmful because it is really making people vulnerable to abuse and misuse.

and of course, it will really discriminate against women that are in the most vulnerable circumstances that for example don't speaking was well, that are illiterate, they don't know how to navigate the internet or how to find reliable information. what we also see happening now already is that the fear is tremendous. when we started aid access, we asked women they would be willing to speak with the press about their experience anwhy they were seeking online care. there were many people willing to speak with the press and now see nobody wants to speak with the press anymore because everybody is scared. amy: dr. rebecca gomperts, what motivated you to found women on waves? >> i am a medical doctor and have always been invested in women's health. at a time i was with greenpeace and environmental organizations.

when i was on the ship, this is how the conversation led to abortion services being illegal in countries that i was visiting with greenpeace. so this is how the idea came about and that was the stt of my work, which is more than 20 years now. amy: what exactly this movement is? i mean, it started with a boat. >> yes, it started with a boat. [laughter] amy: talk about what you did. >> basically, if you have a ship that is registered in the netherlands and it is dutch law that applies in international law where abortion is illegal. we took the boat, to countries like ireland, portugal, morocco, mexico, guatemala, and some others where we went into the harbor with a ship, take women on border and in the harbor, dimly sale outside territorial waters, so about 1.5 hours, could receive the abortion pills and then we sail back and at the

miscarriage at home. this is a way to call attention to the inequality that exists in between the different countries but also the consequences of illegal abortion. this is how women on waves started. amy: you have dealt with countries around the world where abortion is illegal. it is much rarer where abortion is legal as it was in the united states for there to be this kind of regression back to in certain parts of the country make abortion access and legal. are you -- axis illegal. are you concerned about women, though at this point it is insistent women themselves will go to jail, as you pointed out in texas, an example of a woman who went to the hospital for a miscarriage talking to the doctors, talking about maybe having taken this pill, and she was directly arrested in south

texas. this becoming ineasingly common. then if you could talk about it is unusual that u.s. a doctor could give not medical advice, but advice to people in this country, what it means to make abortion accessible and legal once again in the united states. >> so i want to add something to what is also something that is really concerning. what is happening when abortion is made illegal is you also see the doctors are really reluctant to provide medical care to women that need it in pregnancy. for example, when they present with a miscarriage later in pregnancy or with an eptiopic pregnancy because they are afraid they will be charged under the abortion laws. there is only a few countries where abortion has become more restrictive, one is poland.

poland, abortion was legal until 1993. when it became illegal after that, what we saw is the stigma and the fear was so big that you could hardly find any medical professions willing topeak in favor of legalizing again and it has become worse. to reverse this decision will take another generation of activists who work really hard. the supremcourt judges are going to be there for 20, 30 years. so it will take another 20, 30 is before this might even be reversed again, this decision. the impact is immediate. the impact is immediate concerning the taboo, the shame, the fear, and, i mean, it is already visible that it is immediately happening in the u.s. were all the clinics in the states that implement the

trigger law, they shut down. even if you look at the reaction of the government, i mean, everybody is talking about how to stay within the law. i think this is not the moment anymore to stay within the law. this is the moment to make sure women have access to safe abortions. despite the law and despite the fact because it is such an unjust law that is creating so much social inequality and will affect really the most poor women in the country. amy: finally, this point you raised about what actually happens now, in the end, it is not so much that women won't be able to get abortion -- although, in many cases, partularly for poorer women it is increasingly difficult to travel from one place to another and it is not clear that if someone helps someone travel, even getting on a bus, the bus

driver could be "aiding and abetting." the law is completely vague right now. >> yes. amy: that women will get abortions as they did before 1973 when roe v. wade legalized it around the country, but it will be unsafe. united states in 2022 goes back to back alley abortions. >> well, i medical abortions by yourself is not unsafe. let me just say that straight. but i know -- that is also something we know from the emails we received with aid access, that people will try to do other things to end a pregnancy if they don't find help. so we have had emails from people that have put things in their vagina and try to put things in their womb to induce an abortion or jumping upstairs

or -- that is unsafe and a but he should do that. that is really dangerous. we also know if people cannot find help readily or easy, then they will resort to these methods. and the people that are still forced to continue their unwanted pregnancies, the other reality is united states has extremely bad maternal health care the maternity mortality is four times as high as in europe. we will also see women that are going to die while they are forced to carry the pregnancy to term because of the really bad maternity care given. amy: dr. gomperts, can you talk about what your plans are for the future? >> there are different strategies we have to follow. one is that women get access to abortion pills now but you also have to look at the long-term strategy. what we developing now is working on making the abortion

pill available as a once a week contraceptive and morning-after pill so that you are blurring the line between and to conception or contraception and what an abortion is. this would be really a medicine that can be on demand that women ca use how the want on their own terms, either as a contraceptive or as a morning-after pill. why we think it is important is because this way you can make it available as a contraceptive which will be much less elated and possibly even over-the-counter in the future. it does not have the same side effects as the hormonal oral contraceptives that many women don't want to use anymore because of the side effects. amy: why can you just use one of the two pills? >> because the second pill is working to postpone or block ovulation and it has an effect

on the endometrium itself. this pill alone, if you use it every week but in a lower dose, which is 50 milligrams, then it prevents pregnancy from happening. it also prevents permissive from happening when it is used around sex, so i some running after pill. amy: why hasn't this been done before? >> because it is not patented anymore so the form cynical companies are not interested in doing the research -- pharmaceutical companies are not interested in doing the research. pharmaceutical companies are scared to invest in something that think that might not be successful to register as a contraceptive. the medicine is also very effective against in dimitrios is. it is very potent medicine for women. because of pharmaceutical companies are not interested, that is why we took it up because it is like when we started telemedical abortion 20 years ago when everybody set it won't succeed, it isn't going to work, we think this is going to be the future to make this

medicine available on all the different indications that exist. amy: the dutch doctor rebecca gomperts, founder of women on waves and women on web. tune into our july 4 special