07/15/22 07/15/22 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> you are seeing galaxies that are shining around other galaxies, whose light has been bent. and you are seeing just a small little portion of the universe. amy: this week nasa released the first images from its new flagship james webb space

telescope, revealing an unprecedented view of the cosmos. >> so much of this is going to be just a treasure trove for astronomers when they are able to analyze the details of these pictures. i am really excited about that, what we are going to learn from it. amy: a science friday of sorts. the newest images from space with katie mack, the stephen hawking chair and cosmology and science communication at the rimeter institute for theoretic physics in canada. and we will look at the controversy over naming the telescope after james webb. he led nasa during the apollo moon landings in the 1960's, also played a key role in purging lgbtq+ peoplerom nasa. and before that come the state department and what was known as the lavender scare. >> there is no doubt james webb

was a talented administrator who advocated for the inclusion of science programs, but would webb have wanted this to be named after him was summoning people were objecting? amy: we will speak with astronomer lucianne walkowicz which just released the documentary "behind the name: james webb space telescope." all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. president biden has met with palestinian leader mahmoud abbas and it is really occupied west bank. earlier today come he traveled from israel to the palestinian authority's presidential compound in bethlehem. his motorcade passed billboards and banners protesting your support for u.s. occupation as well as the killing of palestinian-america journalist shireen who shot dead by the

military last may next to the jenin refugee camp. biden claimed u.s. continues to support a two state solution to the israeli-palestinian conflict and defended the u.s. response to the killing of shireen. >> pres. biden: she was an american, an american citizen, proud palestinian. i hope her legacy will inspire more young people to carry on her work in reporting the truth and telling stories that are too often overlooked. the united states will continue to assist on a full and transparent accounting of her death and will continue to stand up for media freedom everywhere in the world. amy: his remarks came after by rejected his request by shireen's family to meet with him during his visit. writing "we would like biden to do what his and previous use of ministers have failed to do when

other american citizens were killed by israel, hold the colors accountable." biden is traveling from visuals airport on a direct flight to saudi arabia where he will meet senior saudi officials including saudi -- including mohammed bin salman. in 2018, the cia concluded mohammed bin salman personally ordered the assassination of jamal khashoggi. the house of representatives has approved $839 billion in new military spending for the coming fiscal year. the national defense authorization act passed on a vote of 329-101 with the support of 180 democrats. lawmakers overwhelmingly voted down an amendment put forward by progressives that would have shaved $100 billion from the pentagon budget. they also defeated an amendment to reverse an additional $37 billion piled on to president biden's record budget request.

meanwhile, all 208 house republicans voted against an amendment to the ndaa calling on the pentagon and federal law enforcement agencies to combat white supremacist and neo-nazi activity among government employees. texas has sued the biden administration over new federal rules ordering physicians and hospitals to provide abortions in cases of medical emergencies even in states where the procedure is banned. texas attorney general ken paxton said in a statement the biden administration is seeking to "transform every emergency room in the country into a walk-in abortion clinic." meanwhile, in indiana, the doctor who recently provided an abortion on a -year-old rape suivor is now under investigation. indiana attorney generalodd rokita announced the probe against dr. caitlin bernard in an interview with fox news' jesse watters wednesday night. >> we are gathering the

information, gathering the evidence as we speak and we are going to fight this to the end, inuding looking at a leon jerk. amy: jesse watters primetime was amg the shows on fox news casting doubt on the 10-year-old child's story. in response to the investigation, dr. caitlin bernard tweeted -- "my heart breaks for all survivors of sexual assault and abuse. i am so sad that our country is failing them when they need us most. doctors must be able to give people the medical care they need, when and where they need it." abortion is still legal in indiana up to 22 weeks into a pregnancy. the abortion performed on the 10-year-old girl was actually a medication abortion. she took several pills. sri lankan president gotabaya rajapaksa has resigned his post in a letter emailed from singapore, saying parliament would meet on saturday to select

a new president. rajapaksa fled sri lanka to the maldives aboard a military jet early wednesday amid massive protests demanding his ouster. his resignation from exile sparked jubilation in the streets of the capital colombo thursday, where protesters continue to demand an end to corruption and nepotism they blame for sri lanka's economic collapse. >> it is a big mistake. amy: in europe, a scorching heat wave fueled by the climate crisis has spawned massive wildfires from portugal and spain to france, croatia, and beyond. temperatures in spain hit 115 degrees fahrenheit this week, nearly breaking a record high set just last year. much of china is experiencing record heat, with triple-digit temperatures affecting hundreds of millions of people.

this comes after china recorded its hottest month of june in six decades. on capitol hill, west virginia senator joe manchin told democratic leaders thursday he will not support legislation to combat the climate emergency or any tax increases on the wealthy and large corporations. it's the latest blow by manchin against joe biden's legislative agenda and could spell the death knell for a watered-down version of the build back better package in the senate where democrats hold a razor-thin majority. the youth-led climate justice group the sunrise movement called manchin's decision nothing short of a death sentence. and climate activist bill mckibben tweeted in response -- "manchin has taken more money from the fossil fuel industry than anyone else in d.c. and the return on that investment has been enormous. big oil got its money worth a thousand times over." the international monetary fund is warning the global economy could soon slip into a recession. imf director kristalina

georgieva said this week price shocks from russia's war in ukraine e making it harder for hundreds of millions of people to purchase food, fuel, and other necessities. china's bureau of statistics said today the economy grew by just 0.4% last quarter compared to a year earlier. that's cha's lowest rate of growth since the covid-19 pandemic idled much of its economy in early 2020. in brussels, the europeaunion has asked member states to curb their use of natural gas amid fears that russia might further reduce supplies. the eu says nations that increase their reliance of coal will be exempted from carbon emissions reduction goals. in argentina, tens of thousands of people took to the streets of buenos aires thursday angered by worsening poverty and unemployment. protesters denounced the government of president alberto fernandez over its handling of debt with the international monetary fund that's hampered argentina's economy. >> 15% of the population is

below the poverty line. inflation for food products is at 8%. they have just changed the minister of economy and nothing has changed. amy: mexican president andres manuel lópez obrador has agreed to spend $1.5 billion over the next two years to improve its border enforcement technology in joint efforts with the biden administration to block asylum seekers from arriving to the united states. lópez obrador made the announcement this week during a meeting at the white house with president joe biden, fulfilling demands first made by former president trump who said mexico should pay for the border wall. in related news, three teenagers who were among the 53 asylum seekers who died inside an abandoned sweltering truck in san antonio, texas, last month have been buried. brothers jair and yovani valencia olivares, ages 19 and 16, and their cousin,

-- and their 16-year-old cousin misael olivares were laid to rest thursday in the state of veracruz. this is jair and yovani's mother. >> they wanted to build a house and start a business, not to spend their lives making shoes, because it is tiring work. there are jobs here but they are very poorly paid. things go up in price but wages do not go up. that is why they would to look for a better life. amy: 26 of the victims were from mexico. and mother jones magazine has published leaked audio of president trump's former chief strategist telling his associates that donald trump had a plan to declare victory on election night in 2020 even if he was losing. steve bannon made the remarks just three days before the election. give trum is losing by 10:00, 100 at night, it is going tbe even crazier.

i am recting e attoey geral to st down a ballot placesll 5states its goin to beuts. hes not gog out. biden is winning, trump is going to do some crazy [beep] amy: meanwhile, the intercept reports the u.s. secret service erased messages from january 5 and january 6, 2021 come around the time of the attack on the u.s. capitol by a mob of trump supporters seeking to overturn the election. a government watchdog with the homeland security department said in a letter to lawmakers this week that the erasure took place shortly after oversight officials requested electronic communications from the secret service. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. when we come back, we look at the newest images from nasa's james webb space telescope as well as the controversy over naming the telescope after webb who led nasa head of the apollo moon landings in the 1960's and also played a key role in the

lavender scare. that is the purging of lgbtq+ people from the agency. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. this week nasa released the first images from its new flagship james webb space telescope, the jwst, revealing an unprecedented view of the cosmos from galaxies that formed just a few hundred million years after the big bang to the births of stars in vast nebulas of gas and dust. the telescope is named after james webb, who led nasa during the 1960's in the run-up to the apollo moon landings. earlier this year, nasa administrator bill nelson rejected a petition signed by over 1200 astronomers and astrophysicists, demanding a change to the telescope's name amid new revelations about how webb helped to purge nasa of lgbtq+ workers as part of federal policy. we'll have more on that coming

up. but first, we want to turn to the science coming from the jwst, which is already revolutionizing the fields of astronomy and cosmology. dr. katie mack joins us. she's a theoretical astrophysicist and the hawking chair in cosmology and science communication at the perimeter institute for theoretical physics in canada. she is the author of "the end of everything." astra physically speaking. welcome to democracy now! these pictures have been spectacular but so many of us don't know what we are looking at. in very lay terms, if you can expend what was released this week? >> the pictures that were released this week are really some astonishing versions of the range of things this telescope is able to do. it got a deep field looking into the deep cosmos, the farthest

reaches of the cosmos. it got a picture of interacting galaxies, galaxies that are crashing into each other to show how the telescope is able to tease out the details of the gas and dust and stars forming. it gave us images of a couple of nebulae where stars are forming, newborn stars are forming out of the gas and dust and one where the remains of a dying star are sort of blowing up this bubble in space. both of those are also spectacular pictures that we are going to learn a lot from when trying to understand the process of stellar death and birth. amy: can you explain how it is we have gotten these pictures? how the jwst is different from the hubble space telescope, its predecessor? >> it is a lot bigger come up one thing. the mirror is a lot bigger so whereas the hubble space

telescope had a mirror of about 2.5 meters in diameter, this has a mayor of something like 6.5 meters in diameter. so much bigger mirror which means it collects more light and also sees in different kind of light. the hubble would give us pictures a visible light and some infrared light. this is all infrared. it shows longer wavelengths than we can see with our eyes but that allows us to see farther to the universe and allows us to see features of astronomical objects that you really cannot see with ordinary light. it allows you to look through dust and gas to see the stars forming inside these dust clouds , and it allows us to see some of the galaxies that are so far away that their light is taking billions of years to reach us and that means we can see galaxies that were forming in the very, very early universe. that is tremendously exciting. amy: let's turn to the full-color image returned by the first telescope.

and for our radio audience, you can go to our website democracynow.org to view them. i know dr. mack will be descriptive in explaining. on monday, president biden unveiled this unprecedented view of the cosmos known a the "deep field" image showing tusands of galaxies. some 13 billion years old, formed a few hundred million years after the big bang. if you can explain the big bang? but as we see these images, described that first picture. >> the first picture is an image of a cluster of galaxies. that is a bunch of galaxies that are gravitationally bound to each other, orbiting each other. each of these galaxies is a collection of stars and gas and dust like our own milky way galaxy. those are sort of swirling around each other in space. behind that cluster of galaxies,

you can see sort of the background of the distant galaxies far behind that. there's a cluster of galaxies and all around it are these little colored dots and smudges that are very, very distant galaxies. because we are looking so far into the distance, we are looking back in time. light takes time to travel so the further we look, the further back in time we are looking. we are looking at things that are so far away, they're all most at the big bank. the big bang was an event that happened that started the universe. we have good reason to believe the beginning of the universe, the universe was hot and dense and full of plasma and glowing with heat and over time it expanded and that plasma cooled and there was a lot of hydrogen gas and i guess came together and started to form stars and galaxies and so on. we are able to see some of the first galaxies that formed by looking at an image like this looking far into the distance. we see some of the first galaxies.

it is even better because this image has a galaxy cluster in it, it has so much mass, so much matter that it distorts the space it is in. it bends the space and distorts the images of some of those background galaxies. we can see these arcs around the cluster in the center of the image and those are the distorted view of very distant galaxies behind the cluster. we are seeing behind the cluster and it is magnifying and distorting the images of these background galaxies. they gives us an extra boost to be able to see more distant things because of this magnification called gravitational lensing. it is an amazing image with so much in it, with all these very distant galaxies and astronomers are going to spend a long time analyzing each of those galaxies and learning about how those galaxies formed and sort of how this amazing diversity of

galaxies that exist in the universe, how those came to be. amy: another image from the new telescope shows the southern ring nebula. unlike the deep field image, which shows the most distant galaxies er observed, this image is of something much closer to home inside our own milky way galaxy. still incredibly distant at 2000 light-years from earth. again, this is a planetary nebula, a ring of gas and dust surrounding the core of a dying star that can no longer sustain nuclear fusion. tell us what it teaches about the origin of our own solar system and the chemical elements that make us all up and everything around us, not to mention the fate of our sun. >> this is an amazing image because it shows that bubble that is produced when -- when a star is dying, a star like our sun is dying, it blows off

layers of gas, blows off the atmosphere in these layers and kind of creates this bubble of gas and dust around it. that is what we see in this image. we see with this telescope, we can see the double star system. one of the stars is dying and the other is still burning and this telescope is so powerful, it is able to distinguish the two stars in the center. it is a beautiful view, as you say, the future of our sun because our sun is a star that is going to blow off its outer layers, -- it is called a planetary nebula. it has nothing to do with planets but it is a historical thing called that. our sun, when it eventually dies, will blowout these layers and sort of illuminate sort of pocket of the universe. the nice thing about these images is because we have this infrared information, we have many different sort of

frequencies of light we can look at, we can really examine what thatat gas is made of and learnd about what the atmosphere of the star was when it blew out those lars and learn how it has been moving around and what that process was like as it was dying. so it is a really rich. . image amy: what about, well, one of the most beautiful of the first images of this new telescope has been dubbed the cosmic cliffs, the carina nebula, a gigantic cloud of gas and dust several thousand light years away in our own milky way galaxy. the hubble space telescope made this nebula famous a generation ago. now the new telescope imaging it with unprecedented clarity using the infrared part of the spectrum, showing it contains hundreds of previously hidden stars. can you talk about this and our own sun born in a stellar nursery like the ones we're seeing in this image?

>> yeah, this really is an amazing image. it is one that i think has emotionally affected a lot of people because you are seeing a stellar nursery. you are seeing these clouds of gas and dust where stars form of, to do before the early universe was a bunch of hydrogen and stars started to form. in the present take universe, stars also form may be in clouds of gas and dust in things called nebulae. this is a starforming nebula. you can see in this image, there is a sort of area of a bunch of gas with the sort of tendrils of gas and dust and above that entity picture is a kind of blue glow. there are some really bright stars above that are irradiating the gas below and carving out these cliffs, the sort of features in that gas. the amazing thing about what we see with the jwst is that we can

actually see through that gas and dust and we can see the baby stars being born. we can essentially watch the formation of stars because we have so many stars and it is picture, such a large image with so much in it so many individual stars being born, summoning -- so many pockets of gas that we can watch the progress of stars forming. it really does tell us something about how our star formed in a cloud of gas and dust in the same kind of way. it may not have looked exactly like this, but it was the same kind of process where there was the cloud of gas and dust and came together and gravity pulling together and is sort of ignited. we can watch that process by looking at this picture. amy: dr. mack, we just have 20 seconds before we go to our next guest. i want to ask you, could this telescope show us the first -- be the first scientific instrument to detect life

elsewhere in the universe? >> that is a great question. we're not sure about one of the things it can do and another thing i did not get chance to talk about is it can take the spectra of exoplanet atmospheres, it can look at the gas in the atmosphere, the planets around other stars, and there's a chance it might find signatures consistent with life and in the atmospheres of other stars. we have to stay tuned. it is not entirely clear how well we will be able to know what kind of gases life makes, but we can tell the atmospheres of other planets might have in them. we sell one example of an exoplanet atmosphere this first -- it is a very exciting process. amy: dr. katie mack my they give are being with us hawking chair in cosmology and , science communication at the perimeter institute for theoretical physics in canada. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the release of the first images

from nasa's new flagship james webb space telescope this week revealed an unprecedented view of the cosmos at the same time it brought attention to the controversy of the naming after james webb, who led nasa ahead of apollo moon landings in the 1960's. he also played a key role in purging lgbtq+ people from nasa and what was known as the lavender scare. before that at the state department all he was second in command under president truman. for more we're joined by lucianne walkowicz who led a petition to read and the telescope. cofounder of the just space a lens which made a new documentary about the telescope which we are going to be featuring today. in these first minutes before we play the part of this documentary, lucianne walkowicz, your response to the new images of space nasa released and why you made the film to push for renaming the jwst telescope?

>> the images are incredibly striking, absolutely beautiful, and it will teach us so much about the universe. i wish i could feel unreserved excited out them. unfortunately, the way nasa has dug in its heels about naming the telescope after james webb has really cast a pall over that for me personally and i know a lot of other queer astronomers as well. i thought this was one of the times to release this documentary in part because i think we in the astronomy community have gone through number of different methods to try and help nasa see sense on this issue. i personally was a member of the astrophysics advisor committee for nasa for many years until i resigned over this issue last fall. as part of that committee, we

requested there be an investigation and a report which has never been released. i thought as part of our producer and editor who pitched this idea to us, we really thought laying out the case would be available information about the historical record and also showing its continuation into how queer astronomers are treated now in astronomy, what the important thing to do in connection with the release of these images. amy: you are involved with this amazing documentary we are about to preview, at least a good chunk of it. lucianne walkowicz astronomer, studied the ethics of space exploration, what of four astronomers who created a community petition that called on nasa to not name the telescope the james webb space telescope because they feel he perpetuated homophobia at the state department and nasa. stay tuned.

amy: this is democracy now! i'm amy goodman. we are going to turn to the documentary released this week called "behind the name: james webb space telescope." we are featuring most of it for you today. >> left off from a tropical rain forest to the edge of time itself. >> launched in december 2021, nasa's newest space observatory is set to open a new chapter in astronomy. thousands of people across 14 countries worked together to get this massive complex spacecraft assembled and placed 1.5 million kilometers from earth where tennis court size cools the telescope and operates 18 goldplated mayor segments to

reflect the faint glow of heat emanating from objects throughout the universe. these infrared wavelengths will reveal chemical signatures in the atmospheres of exoplanets. stars forming behind clouds of gas and dust. the earliest galaxies shortly after the big bank. it is an on sparring mission, but does the name invoke the same spirit of scientific exploration and sheer humidity is the telescope itself? >> we are not waging the cold war. >> one sma step for man. one giant leap -- >> after the hubble space telescope named for astronomer edwin hubble, nasa continue to name most of his face telescopes after scientists. typically,

these missions would start with the technical name in korean and around the time it was launched. >> i've heard a rationale for that, like in case of a lunch failure, families often did not want to be associated with a failed space telescope. so often they rename the telescope after a commissioning of the telescope. >> five months after the launch in 1991, it was renamed after arthur holly compton. renamed this one after john rossi three months after it launched in 1995. in 1998, nasa announced a public contest rename the advanced x-ray facility most of zoning's omission haskell student was in honor of indian-american nobel laureate. the shuttle infrared telescope facility was first renamed the space infrared telescope facility and then after another public contest, renamed the

spencer after it launched in 2003. in 2008, a contest rename the gammaray large area space telescope. it resulted in the observatory being renamed after henrique tw monthsfter lauh. jw tooa diffent path. it was before construction even began that nasa announced the next generation space telescope would be renamed in honor of james webb. rather than going through any formal naming process, nasa administrator decided on the name himself. >> our mandate in broad terms is to ponder the future. to push the envelope. to do what has never been done before. >> it took many and the community by surprise. partners on a project apparently were not consulted and scientists wondered, who? one good person to ask who is audra well. expert on the role of science during the cold war. james webb who is usually

referred to as jim webb is most famous for being the director of nasa during the apollo years. he previously had been the under secretary of state under truman, second in command job at the stat department, and director of euro of the budget. he wasn't so much an engineer or any kind of space scientist, but a seasoned bureaucrat who knew a lot about the workings of government. >> he is now bringing all of his remarkable skills of leadership and management to the service of our nation in this most urgent program in space. it is with particular pleasure i present the honorable james e webb. [applause] >> nasa says they're honoring james webb not just r his adership during apollo, but also for pushing to have a balanced program with a focus on science. amy: this is james webb telling president john kennedy whole thrust of the agency is a lunar

program and the rest can wait about six or nine nths. the people going to furnish a brainwork have got some doubts about it. president kennedy responds, doubts about what, with this program? webb says, whether landing on them it is what you call the high-spirited was to president kennedy says, what you think? what did they think is the has priority? webb says, to understand the environment. >> by the end of the 19' if we are honoring webb's leadership, look at the broad things in government while he was in charge. >> at the state depament, jim webb pioneered the idea you could use science as a tool for foreign relations. separately, he also requested the study and implemented the findings of something called project troy, which really set the groundwork for the u.s. psychological program throughout the cold war. with a broad definition of psychological wfare as

basically anything short of life will as were economic warfare. >> as a weapon of war, psycholocal warfare is an anomaly. it is as old as were itself but the u.s. -- integral part of combat. >> the group had been formed on how to and jim -- unjam the reader broadst but this took a much broader interpretation of that mission. thinking about everything from how the u.s. couldxplo stalin's death to how you could use battles for prestige, say scientific prestige, to the hearts and minds around the world. >> the space race and apollo program where a big part of the cold war. >> the thing to understand about how jim webb's all the apollo project is on the one hand, yes, this was a scientific project,

technological spectacle. for jim webb, the point of the apollo program was always to demonstrate the benefits of so-called american way of life to the rest of the world. the apollo program was part of the cold war contest to win the allegiance, particularly of leaders in newly independent countries, to convince them the wathe leaders did things in the united states and the way the government worked in the united states was preferable to that of the soviet union. >> the cold war was closely interwoven into many of the activities webb was involved in at the state department and nasa. another major aspect of that was the systematic purging of suspected gay employees known today as a lavender scare. > two republican congressman claim russia keeps the names of -- >> homosexual has been higher -- >> homosexuals and others --

>> the consequences that -- [talking over each other] >> the lavender scare was closely tied to the red scare, princi drummed up by joseph mccarthy and others the commonest were hiding in the u.s. government. in february 1950, mccarthy claimed over 200, as were working for the state department. close even if they're only one in the state department, that would be one communist too many. >> during webb's staff meeting of gore 13, they discussed defending the security against mccarthy's accusations. in an effort to do so, later that day, deputy undersecretary

john here boys for the congressional committee the state department had already been actively working to remove security threats from their employment roster. none of them were climbing us but of the 202 people they fired over their previous two years, 91 were suspected to be homosexuals. as stated in his during david johnson's book on the lavender scare, rather than see the revelation as evidence of an effective system, many interpreted it as proof the state department, perhaps the entire government, was infiltrated with sexual perverts. senator clyde hughley was tacit with investigating the situation. he told his chief counsel -- >> i don't want any public hearings at all on this matter. i want it as low-key as possible. do it thoroughly, investigated from hell to breakfast, but we will not have any hearings that mccarthy can make big headlines out of. >> he asked jim webb how his committee could work together with the executive branch on the investigation.

on june 22 during one of webb's meetings with truman, they discussed the request. >> i informed the president senator who he had wished to find out how his community and executive rage could work together on the homosexual investigation and he advised me to say to the senator he was sure we can find a proper basis for cooperation. he approved a suggestion mr. murphy and mr. spit guard and i see senator oey to discuss the problems involving this cooperation. >> to prepare with the meeting, the secretary of state sent james webb a package of information on june 24. this included suggestions on how the senate committee should conduct its investigation and how the state department should work with them, as well as the background paper on the problem of homosexuals and sex perverts in the department of state. this was quite literally a state-sponsored manifesto of homophobia, describing

homosexuals as emotionally unstable and repugnant to the morals of america society. it also gives background information. the government had no rules against employment of homosexuals and it wasn't until just recently that anyone really considered it a problem. in 1947, john purifoy took it upon himself to start ordering tooth investigations into the state department's employees to seek out possible homosexuals. by 1950, there were two full-time security staff members devoted to these investigations, which involved inquiries at all places of employment, residences, and habitats. they tried to determine if any friends or associates were homosexual and place employees under surveillance to determine if they were visiting any known homosexual places. suspected employees were interviewed by the investigator and the chief of the division of departmental personnel or foreign service personnel. if they came to the conclusion

the employee was homosexual, they were promptly fired. at the time there was no actual rule against homosexuals being employed in the government. the argument for firing and thinking that were repugnant was -- >> most homosexuals are weak, unstable, who are susceptible to the wanton designs of others. >> the state department considered homosexuals a security risk and according to executive order 9830 five signed by president truman in 1947, agencies were responsible for ensuring just loyal employees were not retained. in the next paragraph, though, admits -- >> we have no evidence these designs of others have caused a breach of security of the department. >> throughout the lavender scare, no one ever had evidence of the u.s. government employee in bckmailed into giving a foreign powers state secrets due to their sexual orientation. but that did not stop the state department from devoting

considerable resources to subjecting its eloyees to surveillance of the most personal aspect of their lives. equipped with this information, jim webb met with senator hoey on june 28 along with two others , advisers to president truman. according to the account, webb gave the senator that paper wrote the manifesto of the state department's homophobic viewpoints and justifications for firing homosexual employees. they discussed whether any part of the senate hearing should be public. hoey and another said maybe they got the medical testimony should be public and the rest in executive session, but jim webb wasn't sure, and they all agreed they would think about it some more. as far as we know from easily accessible information, that was the extent of webb's direct involvement with the senate hearings. according to the suggestive process written by carlisle, he himself would serve as the department spokesperson on the senate investigation while webb and secretary dean atchison

would be kept informed of all significant developments and available for behind the scenes activities when necessary. with the generally homophobic society, most members of the blic and congress were all too ready to believe the source of positions touted in the memo to jim webb most of the majority of other government agencies also agreed, but not all of them. for example, the acting director of the federal mediation and conciliation service told the committee -- >> it is possible according to our understanding of the opinion on the subject, for homosexual to lead a normal, well-adjusted life. we do not consider such a person necessarily constitutes a bad security risk. >> after the senate subcommittee investigation, the report stated homosexuals should be fired for two reasons. first, there generally suitable for subsecond, they constitute security risks. the state department's actions and report tckinget suspected homosexual employees

to spread widely across the federal government and initiate decades of homophobic policies. president eisenhower signed executive order 10 450 and 1953 explicitly added sexual perversion as a reason for an individual being unsuitable for government employment. by the time jim webb became nasa administrator in 1961, some of the media and congressional attention to the lavender scare had died down but many agencies were still regularly targeting queer employees. on october 22 1963, nasa budget analyst clifford norton was driving his car your lafayette square. two police officers from the moral squad saw him pick up a man, drive around the block come and pick him up, and drop them off the same spot. the officers followed both men where they arrested the two of them in the parking lot and took them to the morals office to issue a traffic violation for speeding.

the police interrogated both men r two hours about their to it is in sexual activities. meanwhile, the moral squad called over the nasa security chief who arrived at 3:00 a.m. and watched the last part of the police interrogation is norton continued to deny the homosexual accusations. in the security chief brought clifford norton over to nasa headquarters where he and a colleague interrogated norton until 6:00 a.m. through these hours of late-night interrogations, norton conceded he sometimes experienced home sexual desires when drinking but continued to deny he was a homosexual. after the interrogation, clifford norton's supervisor said he believed that norton was a competent employee doing very good work and asked personnel officers whether there was any way to avoid firing norton because he did not think this is a real secretive problem to worry about. the personnel officers told his supervisor that it was custom within the agency to fire anyone involved in homosexual conduct. thgh norton was fired due to

possessing traits of character and personality that rendered him unsuitable for further government employment. custom within the agency implies nasa fight others as well. there isn't any usually accessible information on how many suspected homosexual and people nasa targeted and fired. the only reason we know about clifford norton is because he fought back. norton called up frank kaman who was known for evocation for government employees who were dismissed or their sexuality. in fact, frank was an astronomer who the american astronomical society celebrated for its leadership in the gay rights movement. >> he was trained at harvard to be an astronomer, witch and worked for the u.s. army with his astronomy degree and fired. he was so outrag by th, that he turned it into a lifelong act

of getting these laws changed. >> this is that a time when people in my profession had been in heart, then all of human history and i cannot get a job specifically because of sexuality. i'm not alone. i know many people who have had careers ruined, lives destroyed for no other reason. these are people with great offer to society. prejudice against them. >> he corn the term gaze -- if it is good and inherited a good thing for us to be out, then it cannot be secured he risk because that was always the argument. >> he helped gather facts on the case and referred clifford norton to an attorney with the aclu. after a prolonged legal battle, the u.s. circuit court of appeals ruled in 1969 that federal employees could not be fired solely on the grounds of being homosexual. homosexuality was justified dismissal only if it surely affected the employees --

demonstrably affected the employees job. slowly turn the tide on institutional homophobia. government discrimination against queer people continued for years. >> should someone be able to serve their country if they say they are homosexual? >> the state department in 2017 a public partial apology for the lavender scare but nasa and other agencies never apologized for their participation. as far as we know, no effort was made to compensate the victims or their family members. in 2002 when administrator sean o'keefe renamed the next generation space telescope after james webb, a lot of this information was not widely known. though astronomers were confused by the unilateral decision to name the telescope after a former administrator, many were just happy to project had high-level support and funding. in the mid-2010's a few started to raise questions about what

webb's role was in the lavender scare. >> i think it must've been around 2015 or so when i was still on the executive committee , the committee on the status of sexual orientation and gender minorities in astronomy. i was the founding member of the committee. a blog entry came our way that raised questions about james webb's purchase of patient in the lavender scarend there was some discussion about how we as a committee should respond to that. essentially, the attitude particularly from the more senior members, was this ship has sailed and there wasn't really anything we can do about it. at that point, i kind of dropped it as a thing i could change. i decided it was something i could at least talk openly about. >> in early 2021, four astronomers launched a petition to change the name of the telescope. >> we decided that prior to the telescope's launch, we wod

create a petition that would essentially allow the astronomical community to coalesce around having this change of name. >> is the start of the petition and attempt to bring more astroners to say, y, is this a thing we want to touch base about before the telescope gets launched we start collecting data with that? let's check in and see what is going on here. >> it was heartening to see over 1800 people signed the petition. these are folks from as early career ahigh school to major senior pis, people inside and outside academia, including 1 of the signaries are people who have applied for jwst, so people are getting ready, people excited for the signs are included as those who signed the petition. >> internally, nasa started in informal investigation into james webb's role in the lavender scare, led by the jwst program scientist and nasa historian.

they were having trouble accessing records because the national archives and the truman library were closed to researchers due to covid. after a few months, they got a contract set up for an independent history to do research once the archives opened up. in the meantime, the independent historian started reading through more readily accessible material and came across the clifford norton case. this story and noted that a custom within the agency sounds pretty bad and nasa under the direction of web is able to set its own rules who should be removed and for what reasons. members of both the astrophysics advisory committee and the american national societies committee for sexual orientation and gender minorities asked nasa for updates on the investigation and information on nasa's process for reconsidering the name. nasa gave those committees the same information they were giving to reporters and

the public. over the summer, one of the entrance in the history department also started looking into information on james webb and in early september wrote a lengthy email full of information and sources. they wrote, webb played a leadership position in the lavender scare is undeniable. dylan thing left up to historical debate in this matter is whether or not his heart was in it. was webb emotionally invested in the persecution of lgbtq people? either way, one thing is clear, he still did those things. and those thing served a key role in a bigger thing, anything that as has been pointed out, led many to suicide. the nasa historian said there was a lot of good information in the interns right up that he would include in his final report. and while the independent historian still had not been able to access the archives which were said to open in october. but on september 27, a one sentence statement from nasa administrator bill nelson wasn't

to six reporters. "we have found no evidence at this time that weren't changing the name of the james webb space telescope." there's no report released and no details on the investigation. and a lot of people were upset about nasa's lack of transparency. many astronors feel changing the name of the telescope would be a way for nasa to start to reckon with his past and help reinforce the values nasa wants to carry into the future. >> i think would help send a message at nasa in its current era does not tolerate the same sort of intolerance present in the 1950's through 1970's. we will do our best to -- we want people historically persuted because the made our agency stronger. >> four astronomers are using the telescope, knowing their kind of invigoting the lacy

of somebody who very clearly did not support them, i think it is particularly heavy burden to ask queer astronomers staff to carry that burden. it kind of sins are pretty clear message about who is considere important or relevant. >> this isn't james webb on trial. this is, what should we name the telescope? i don't think anyone starting from a clean sheet looking at a list of names, coming up with the vesting would have james webb anywhere near the top of that list. >> i relies people's legacies are often complicated but having a telescope named after you is not something that everybody just gets. >> i'm not quitsure where this particular case is so insistent on james webb. it feels a bit strange. they're just so many choices. even if james webb was a great guy, i don't see a strong reason we need to stick to this. >> one suggestion for a

different name for the observatory could be the harriet tubman space telescope. >> when we are talking about sending something that represents humanity into space, we should be thinking about sending the best of humanity into space and something that represents our very best. haiet tuan is an exemplar who we can be as a species a as individuals in terms of a commitme to what is right and doing what is right, commitment to justice and commitment to being actilyngaged in the struggle. and to liberation. >> the criticisms i sometimes heard were, oh, well, harriet tubman was not an astronomer and. well, neither was james webb. alsothe question of who is an astronomer, ke, let's think about why was it harriet tubman astronomer even though she observed the night sky and used stars for celestial navigation

and the service of something that could not have been greater, right, people's freedom? to me, that makes her an astronomer. >> with the name, see a lot more hope and happiness. there's a lot more positive characteristics that come with the name such as harriet tubman space telescope then james webb. and it gives a lot of people who have traditionally been excluded essence of belonging, i would say. amy: "behind the name: james webb space telescope." we will link to the full film on our website democracynow.org. the film features the historian audra wolf, ralph danner, astronomers jenna prescott weinstein and lucianne walkowicz , who spoke with earlier about the petition they helped launch for nasa to change the james

webb based telescope's name, which has gathered 1800 signatures and counting. that does it for our show. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]