- what's your problem? what's your solution? inhich wor do we wna live yond theovid-19 rus cris? that is the question of this special series kamp sotions. ofessor chard wiinson has ne extenve reseah the impt of inequali on sociy. we wannknow how wean make ciety worketter for all, richa wiinson halots to ll us. weome to kamp solutis. you' been rearching e impact of inuality isociety d on indidua well-bei for manyears.

and th your fe, ofessor te picke you' writtenwo books about ur finngs. whatave you arned? - well, at we di walook at e scale of ince differces between ch and pr in rh develod countrs. and thene relateit toll sortsf outcom li levels violenc measuredy homici rates and fe expecncy anthe proption of popution in ison, teenage rth rate all sortof thinglike tha we hadorked on heth inequities anwhat's cled the cial determants of alth. dical ca is not e most imptant determinant life pectancy, much morimportan e things like how ri or poor you are, ur cial cla, your ecation or howtressfulour life s been imany rescts. those e reallyowerful terminants ohealth.

- e of thenteresti conclusis in youbook, "the ier levelwhich al fers to ur earli work, "the spit level"s that me econom growth doesn'seem to ad better ll-being alth andappiness in fac there iresearch at sugges that in wtern socties, we havet made a real prress in fac there iresearch since th1970s prably. m have hahigher incomeevels, g per capa but we kin lost th progres versusncreasinlevels of sess in siety, environmtal gradatio and thin like th. so, hodo you expla thathe econoc growth that we' all see be string for acally doe't serves? - i thinit's versimple. i meanin a poosociet rising material andards are real importa. buas we gemore and moref everytng,

itakes lesand lessifferenc and that basical at you s, so iyou lookt fe expecncy against p per cata inifferentountries of t world, countri get ricr, e fe expecncy goes up d up andp and th when yoget towardthe richountries starts level o and 's then rizontal d so couries can get ch, muchicher and yet e life eectancy ist affect by that life eectancy nds to re buunrelateto what' ppening gnp perapita. least tt's beenrue over theast genetion or since e 1970s t, of course, more rectly, thenited steslife expectan has cead to ris and itooks as if some th is to dwith iquality,

've had big ri what e sometis referr tos the dehs of spair. drug alcoholsuicide, thingsike that and sothere's limit tohat mateal staards cadoor you and it not simy health you looat measus of happess and ll-being lifeatisfactn, they have tt same spe. so, f to get certain leveof wealtin a socty, tting rier stilloesn't make much difference. - where d weo wron i mean, ifou go by tse statiics, ateast, th researc seems tsuggest at ov the pas50 years weidn't rely make mh progre and so wt's wron th our picies? - economic gwth is wt transford the re quality of o lives htoricall from the9th centy

the mide of lascentur but won't gon impving everytng forev. you cahave enoh food, u can ha enough rs, you can ve enougwhatev is and it is rlly... as iaid thataving mo d more oeverythi makes le and lesdifference. - we a, of coue, at an intesting mont in history, if therever was mont in oulifetime r radicachange, that momenwill be w cause wee bacally in lockdow and ether weike it onot, we'rfaced wi the oppounity toethink, ybe reornize d restruure. so, if wwere to try do that fr your pepective,hat would do diffently? how wod we chae the cose? - e power the resear we'veone which hanow been reicated my, many tis

is tt it sws that fe fothe vastajority e populaon can be better withreater eality, we canive nger, the le mental lness, lesstress, ls violen, ronger cmunityife, gher socl mobili. i sotimes ma aoke at the pense ofmericans show theraph of sial mobity in ratioto inequity. d, of cose, americanalways tnk th they ha the highessocial mility, e very mile sociy, ere's thamerican dream anyone c become esident and so o buactuallyif amerins want to livthe ameran dream they'ldo much tter to goo countrs like dmark

that h much hier social mility. soinstead being the landf opportity, in way, it the lanof the greatest inequalities of opportuty. enids staroff, the are mo differees in ter of clas and rents inmend so on your fher's inme matte mu more tohere yound up inociety ithe us and ny oth socties. and think th surpris a lot ofesearche but 's been plicated on difrent datsets d it's n well esblished. that's ainteresting pot because the more traditiol europe societi where certaifamily structes have en in ple for nturies ther than dades as ited stas often, you woulexpect tt ese fami favors and ings likthat wou continueo play a rol - thamerican story was out gettg away from t class disions o europe a britainnd so on

e landed artocracy d so on. and r a whil with of coursthe impoant, ve importa excepti of raci ethnic fference ited stas was a re flu ciety than eopean on but at ceased to be ue. and it lks as if ry impor part of the elanationf why, ishe incomdifferens betweerich andoor have gro so wide we all become more worried about how we are seen d judged. what y think ome, i thk when y respecte and you look u me or when youook downn me and ose kindof anxietie status xieties seemo be muchigher in allncome grps in more equal soeties. we all become more twitchy about how we're seen and judged

if y like. - so, fr your perspeive, fr what yove learn during a your rearch, why uld you y that eality or should y more equalit ismportantetween pple? - almo all therobls that more coon at t bottom the soci ladder, gher rat of violce, more obesy, more en birth more peoplin priso all the proble get wse wh there a bigger differces betwn us. ople areess like to kw their ighbors in aore unual soety, if you ke less blic spited, lessnterestein the common gd if you like. and u can denstrate all th with stistics that a collect by all sts of inteational ganizatis. and so wt we arg,

at wreally sw is at the qlity of fe is bettefor all us in thesmore equ societi. wh i say f all of , ofourse,nequalit has s biggeseffects the lea well-ofbut if and ongst thbetter o, peopleike you d i, we mighlive a ltle bit nger ife had thsame job me incom same edation but lid in a morequal socty. we'd be ss likelto become vtims of olence, our ds mightecome le involvedn drugs d so, seriouy involv in drug inhat y, we aldo bette - need grter equaty for alkinds of soal contions as wee talkedbout. but u also aue that we neegreater uality to aieve theery suainable societwe need become get morin line,f yolike, wi the plat. cayou talkbout tha - the wawe most mmonly try d show o self woh

is thrgh consurism and actuly, you e at as inuality, as the iome diffences win in socties, peop borrow re, i thk to keep with ea other. so, can gi a good accot of myself byf i've g glassesith the rit fashioframes whateveit is. anthateeds intan intiable kd of conmption, our consumptn is mpetitiobetween . and i think said rlier, status aiety gs up not ly among the poo but ev amongsthe ch with equality d, of cose, the g obstac toustaability is conmerism

and we he to reaze at the eiest way ofontrolli it, of makinus feel happiewith ourncomes is tough greer equality. but ere are rveys or opinio of busiss leade aski them abt what pority th attach enroental agements. they tnk they' ss impornt in onequal soeties, presably all envinmental ings, at'sor so the governnt another pele to woy about, i ju get on d run myusiness. but th people e less lely toave thosrts of aitudes in a morequal soety. - you' not jusa research i sugge beuse togeer with ur wife, you arted a undation toupport t very wo in society at you wte about , you research bu you so want change, would be corre? - i s giving lecture londoon thesehings

and suppose i want people know at acadec eviden busomebodyame up tme afterrds and id, "is yone campaigng on thi" ani'd ver thout campaigning. w, we seup what now call the equity trt inially wi money fm a largquaker fndation. i suose if y're a rearcher w has the. if youike the re privige of cing acro really importt connecons that an't ve well knn, you feelt's yourob to ma them beer known it cfers a kd of responbility on yo i y say th we didn diover these relatiohips, thfirst pele to sh statistil relatiships betwn greateinequali and worshealth and re vlence, ty publhed pape in the 70s. my fir one came t in the 10s

t now the are sily hureds of pers. and people have always known since fore the ench revutio thatnequalitis divise and socily corrove and th's simpl whathe data ows. - a few nths agothe worlwent inta lockdo becae of a csis that ve few peoe saw comi. whatid you tnk in tes of youwork on uality and thneed for equaly? wh is the opportity? - peop become re sociae streetsnd villas and tos alover brita, wee learned thnames ofuite a few peopl whlive locly and w didn't know them before. en we gout to ha a lk to exercise, people sp and ta to eachther in a wayhey didn before. d what'sappening is wre all bei put the samboat togher whh is actlly what grear equali does.

anso theffects a very liky effes of greer equalit d you casee it inerms of at peopl e lookinfor afteards. the va majorit of the populatn, someing likewo thds of e populaon and go opion polls say th they thk we wilbe kinder siety aft this, theylso thinwe'll be a morequal soety. and ople havbeen horrifieby the da onhe highedeath ras ongst etic minoriti from cod. i warather sprised tt... mo people re surpred causalmost all cses of deh have tt same ptern re commoamongst or mirities and so on

t i thinthe reacon shs peoplehink wehouldn'tolerate , we should dsomethinabout it this is show called kp soluti. so, wanna tk about thsolution we knothat morequality is goofor all us but hodo we gethere? one thg you mentionein your oks is theoncept o omic demracy. can yotalk abo that? - ye in term of how y reduce e inco difrences betwn rich and poo mosteople thk that i simp a matteof highetaxes anmore genous benets. i think that's part of it, i thk we've t to stopeople hidingheir money aw in tahavens d we've t to stop t avoidan. bua much me fundamenl approa is to reduce income differences before tax. e biggest reasonor rise in equality is runay incom at the p.

ese peop are paying tmselves ny llions odollars, hundredsf times re th the avege perso workg in the company inhe pt, strger ade unionspowerfulabor mement, social docratic rties, ifou like,he strenhs are what call th cotervaili voice, mo peoplwith an ea th there's anoth way e wod can wo. i think e way no ishrough r systems of emploe ownersp comnies, legislatn for employeeepresention companyoards, united stes and itain doesn't ve any legislation likehat but out halfhe memberountries of the eopean unn do have th kind legistion. in germa, it's vy strong apparely, abou half theeople

on t remunerion commtees deciding payn the larg compani haveo be empyee represtatives nofinanciaelite parachut in. and i think at is thway of getng great equaly moreeeply emdded int the fabr of our ciety. anin a wayit can't easi be undo. 's emploes who cate the weal most fuamentall anyet theyaven't beenharing iit. - i geyour poi t how wod that wk inhat gig onomy thats emerng so fa now wheruber drirs are not atll repsented in theoards of the coorations theye basicay workinfo so, how uld we dit there - we rlly haveo deal wh ese zeroours conacts. it not theight way treat han being treang peopl mply aresource

and i think th part that is economic demracy. think th one of e efcts of t lockdow d the regnition at there e some oupations th are esstial, peop deliving, ople worng in shs, obously heth servi people, the shelstackersn our surmarketsnd so on sudden seeing ese very badltreated,ow-paid ople asssentialorkers, it'shanging ings. anthere's funny hat that's deloped ibritain. everthursdayight at eig o'clock eryone ces out o their hoes and ty cl d th're clapping the essential worker paicularlyhe heth servi workers

anthe inteet is awh with prosals of at we do afr we comout of ts crisis anquite rongly rresent are oposals do someing aboupollingllow pay d bad treaent in tse jobs. - is univers basic iome partf your ias of economicemocracy - well, i'm t an ecomist but ineasinglyit seemso me need too in thadirectio partly bause, ofourse, people lking at e devepment ofutomatio w technogies ando on sugges that peaps half more th half oujobs are vulnerab to autotion

and ucial future we-being oour sociies is howe handlehat. is it ju gonna cate ormous umploymen for large pa of t labor fce anhuge weah for thpeople who nomilly own is tomated chnology or aree going have some wayf sharinout at is pruced aomatically? and i dohink unersal bac income is a verimportan rt of th... the soluon to th problem - in thend of yo last bo, u write at we ca on achievehe goal of great equalitif rge numbs of peoe commit tthat. now,t the ti that you wre the bo, there s no cris. so, at meanthere was a logil recommdation but day, sudnly there'that cris and lae groupsf peopleave comeogether. inact, they're a togethe

so, is this th ment thawe need? - do thinkhat comi out this cod crisis maybe a al turni point. there arbig swings, ternatiol eologicaswings, i meanthe 19s s a radil dede, the 1980saw a grth ofort ofree rket funmentalis neolibal econocs wi reagan d thatch and it'shere tt we stoed the real big creases inequaly. and thatas 40 years agnow, ese chans don't st haen in oncountry. the 0s was rical evewhere. 1848 revutions hpened inifferentontinent all at time o. , i do tnk that'really impoant, allhese chaes,

the swings in ternatnal ideogy, econom ideolog rhaps prcipay and i uldn't b at all sprised. i hopeery much that ts crisis wi have be the igger touch a swg. - riard, to nclude, a betterorld posble? - , i have ablutely ndoubt. i thinsometimeit would beuite har to cree a wot one. when i s that only 9% of thpopulati wanted treturn t everytng beings it was before therisis, i ought th that's indition of e vast mority, 91% ofhe populion didn wanto returno that siety. it an indition that we n do betr ani ink we wl do betr.

- thanyou ry much. - ank you. - more eality inociety isheaper a healter itlso leadto a happr and clner worl thats the meage of decad of resech by pfessor rhard wilnson. yes, we e in arisis and weave a biopportuny make mar progss roll. is w kamp sotions, sy ll and s you nextime. - [moderator] kamp solutions is presented by the world business academy on behalf of just capital. the covid-19 corporate response tracker of just capita isracking e best prtices oforporatis servg the nes of the employe and ofhe mmunitiethey ser this ti of natial crisi see how the best of america's largest employers

are treang stakelders amidhe coronirus cris at justcapital.com.

■x■xç■ç■ç■ñçñqñqñqñqññññ#ñ#wwñ?í host: welcome to "global 3000." amoving for change -- women in saudi arabia are gaining new rights and freedoms. slimming the waste -- a young woman in nigeria is determined to shrink the mountains of trash. and life in chaos -- lebanon's poverty levels are rising, and with that, people's desperation. ♪