08/04/ 084/22 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> we need a treaty of nonproliferation of nuclear weapons as much as ever. amy: as the u.n. secretary-general warns of possible nuclear annihilation, we look at the growing threat of nuclear war as tensions escalate

between the united states and two other nuclear powers, russia and china. we will also look at why the head of the u.n. atomic energy agency is warning the situation at ukraine's largest nuclear power went is completely out of control. russia is using it as a shield to attack ukrainian forces. plus, we look at why the american right is embracing hungary's authitarian leader viktor orbán who just met with nald trump and is addressing cpac today, the conservative political action conference. this all comes just days after orbán delivered a racist speech that drew comparisons to the naziz. >> we cannot except talking about races and mixing of res within the jewish community. amy: one orbán longtime aide to orbán, describing his remarks as

pu nazi text worthy of gerbils. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in northern california come the death toll from the mckinney fire has risen to four after authorities found the remains of two more victims wednesday. slow-moving thunderstorms have slowed the spread of the blaze which has consumed 57,000 acres at the rain triggered local flooding and shifted concerns to the threat of mudslides. this comes as the northeastern united states is baking under heat wave that threatens -- that is threatening to top records across the northeast. i know, seven u.s. veterans and

their allies were arrested outside the u.s. capitol as they wednesday protested the military's role in driving the climate crisis. a 2017 study from the pentagon emits more greenhouse gases than many of the world countries, including sweden and portugal. on u.n. secretary-general wednesday, antonio guterres slammed oil and gas company saying they should tax profits after fuel prices were pushed to new highs. guterres's of the largest fossil fuel companies earned nearly $100 billion in profits for the first quarter of this year alone. >> send a clear message to the fossil fuel industry and the financials that is grotesque, punishing the most vulnerable people while destroying our only common, the planet.

amy: on capitol hill, arizona democratic senenator kirsten sinema has signaled she wants changes to a budget reconciliation bill containing many of president biden's legislative priorities on energy, taxes, and health care. in a private call with arizona's chamber of commerce on tuesday, sinema questioned part of the inflation reduction act that would impose a 15% minimum tax on corporations. sinema also questioned a provision to close the carried interest loophole, which taxes private equity and hedge fund managers at lower rates than most u.s. workers. meanwhile, environmentalists are sounding the alarm over billions of dollars in new tax breaks and subsidies that oil and gas companies would receive as part of the compromise deal agreed to last week by senate majority leader chuck schumer and west virginia senator joe manchin. on wednesday, vermont independent senator bernie sanders said he will offer amendments that would strip out a requirement tying new investments in green energy to mandatory lease sales of millions of acres of public

lands to oil and gas companies. >> in my view, if we are going to make our planet healthy and habitable for future generations, we cannot provide billions of dollars in new tax breaks to the very same fossil fuel companies that are currently destroying the planet. amy: the u.s. senate has voted to add finland and sweden to nato in a major expansion of the military alliance and the first since north macedonia joined nato in 2020. wednesday's senate vote was 95 to 1, with only missouri senator josh hawley voting no. all 30 nato members are expected to complete the ratification of finland and sweden by the end of the year. indonesia, australia, and japan have begun joint combat exercises with the united states on the island of sumatra. though the drills are held annually, these are the largest

ever and come just after house speaker nancy pelosi's visit to taiwan, which china condemned as a provocation. earlier today, china's military fired several ballistic missiles into the waters around taiwan as it began large-scale air and naval drills near the self-governing island, which china considers part of its territory. president biden signed an executive order to help patients seeking abortions to travel to states still allow the procedure. he signed the order assent republicans blocked democratic bill to protect abortion care providers from violent threats and attacks. meanwhile, georgia's department of revenue said this week it will allow state residents to claim fetuses and embryos as dependents, a tax deduction work up to $3000. in june, federal pills were upheld a georgia law defining a developing embryo as a person as soon as fetal cardiac cells begin activity, typically around six weeks of pregnancy.

in indiana, republican congressmember jackie walorski and two of members of her staff were killed in a head-on collision on wednesday. the driver of the other vehicle was also pronounced dead at the scene. walorski served on the house ways and means committee, and was seeking reelection to a sixth term in november'midterm elections. she was 58 years old. in guanajuato, mexico, journalist and businessman ernesto mendez was shot and killed tuesday night, along with two other people, after gunmen stormed a liquor store he owned and opened fire. mendez ran the online news source "your voice" and had previously reported threats. he is the 13th media worker to be killed in mexico this year alone. in austin, texas, and host alex jones admitted from the witness stand wednesday the 2012 sandy hook elementary school massacre in newtown connecticut was real. jones admission came at a civil

trial where he faces $150 million defamation lawsuit from families of schoolchildren killed at sandy hook. for years, jones spread conspiracy theories the shooting was a government hoax and the victims families were paid actors, resulting in online harassment and death threats for sandy hook families. the 2012 massacre claimed the lives of 20 schoolchildren and six educators. this week scarlett lewiswhose six-year-old son jesse is among the 20 children killed in the massacre, confronted alex jones from the witness stand. >> i wanted to tell you to your face because i wanted you to know that i am a mother my first and foremost, and i know you are a father. my son existed. still on your show today, you're trying to say i am implying that i am an actress.

amy: this week, lawyers for the sainthood families revealed alex jones attorneys sent them every text message jones sent for the past two years, apparently, by mistake. on wednesday, the capitol insurrection signaled it may subpoena john's messages as it investigates his contacts with planners of the january 6 attack. donald trump has welcomed hungary's president viktor orbán to his golf club in bedminster, new jersey, ahead of the conservative political action conference, or cpac, which opens today in dallas, texas. trump is scheduled to deliver closing remarks on saturday, while orbán is set to speak today. cpac's warm welcome of orbán comes just days after he delivered a speech in romania that drew comparisons to nazi rhetoric. >> there is a world with european peoples are mixed together with those arriving from outside europe. that is a mixed race world. and then there is our world,

where people from within europe mixed with one another. amy: so far, none of the prominent conservatives scheduled to share the stage with orbán at cpac have condemned his racist remarks. that includes far-right tv rsonalities sean hannity and glenn beck, senator ted cruz, and congressmembers lauren boebert, matt gaetz, and jim jordan. we'll have more on this story lar in the broadcast. a top justice department official said wednesday his agency has investigated more than 1000 threats to election workers over the past year. assistant attorney general kenneth polite told the senate judiciary committee on wednesday that the pace of violent threats has increased sharply since former president trump and his backers falsely claimed that the 2020 election was rigged. >> threats to the election community main a public safety issue requiring a national response, regardless of politics. the trauma experienced in this community is profound and unprecedented. amy: the warning came a day after trump-backed candidates

who deny the results of the 2020 election won primary elections in arizona and michigan. the national labor relations board has ordered a unit of striking coal miners in alabama to pay $13.3 million in damages to the warrior met coal company 16 months after they walked off the job to protest huge cuts to their pay, pensions, and healthcare benefits. the nlrb cited the strike's financial toll on warrior met's labor and security costs as well as "lost revenues for unmined coal." in a statement, the united mine workers of america called the nlrb's ruling a slap in the face of workers and said it has no intention of paying the fine. union president cecil roberts said -- "is it now the policy of the federal government that unions be required to pay a company's losses as a consequence of their members exercising their rights as working people? this is outrageous and effectively negates workers' right to strike." in more news from alabama, a subsidiary of hyundai has been

accused of using child labor at a factory that produces parts for the korean automaker. reuters reports that underage workers, in some cases as young as 12, recently worked at a metal stamping plant operated by smart alabama llc, which supplies parts to hyundai's flagship u.s. assembly plant in nearby montgomery. labor advocates are sounding the alarm er a bipartisan house bill that would gut protections for workers in the gig economy. the worker flexibility and choice act would amend the fair labor standards act of 1938 to end minimum wage and overtime protections for workers at companies like doordash, uber, and lyft. the national employment law project warns the bill would "radically erode fundamental worker protections in the united states to the benefit of big corporations, allowing them to require workers to sign away basic rights as a condition of work." the bill is co-sponsored by two house republicans and democratic congressmember henry cuellar of texas.

in may, cuellar defeated progressive primary challenger jessica cisneros by under 300 votes after winning the endorsement of housepeaker nancy pelosi and democratic majority whip james clyburn, who joined cuellarn the campaign trail. and radical activist and long-time member of the catholic worker movement tom cornell died on august 1 at the age of 88. cornell, who blended traditional catholicism with radical activism, used his actions and writings for bringing christian nonviolence and war resistance to the forefront of catholic life. cornell worked closely with catholic worker founder dorothy day and was a co-founder of pax christi usa. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman, joined by my co-host nermeen shaikh. hi, nermeen. nermeen: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world.

amy: the head of the international atomic energy agency this morning the situation at ukraine's largest nuclear plant zaporizhzhia is "completely out of control." in an interview with the associated press, he said tuesday "every principle of nuclear safety has been violated at the plant. what is at stake is extremely serious and extremely grave and dangerous. in recent weeks, the russian military as plate heavy artillery, batteries, and link anti-personal landmines at the plant. ukrainian officials say russia is using the nuclear plant as a base rates artillery, and annoying ukraine cannot attack a nuclear power plant without risking a nuclear disaster. zaporizhzhia is the largest nuclear plant in europe. we begin today show with shaun burnie, senior nuclear specialist with greenpeace who hast just returned from ukraine. he was conducting an investigation at chernobyl.

russian forces occupied chernobyl from month immediately after the invasion of ukraine began in february. shaun burnie, welcome back to democracy now! can you talk about the situation and zaporizhzhia and what you found at chernobyl? >> the situation at zaporizhzhia is unusual for greenpeace to agree with atomic energy agency but mr. grossi is right. the occupation began on the fourth of march and since then, hundreds of russian forces, as well as statemployees of the russian nuclear state company, have been on the site. that is bad enough. the fighting around the plant if anything is more serious in terms of what is actually going on at the site itself because nuclear power plants are dependent upon reliable off-site power. already we saw in march and april the loss of so-called grid connections.

these are incredibly important because nuclear plants also require -- to maintain operations, maintain the facility's cooling pumps, for example, that pump water to the reactors and keep the reality there's -- reactors relatively say. what we saw with the loss of grid, number of grid lines, the reason for that was because of fighting. 50 kilometers, 60 collars, 80 kilometers from the site. even if nothing happens at the site itself, the plans are vulnerab to external attack in the context of a war zone. nermeen: you have said the situation is extremely high risk in zaporizhzhia, but you've also suggested the role of the atomic energy agency is highly political. could you explain why? >> it is a complicated situation.

nuclear plants and a russian militaryontrol with russian -- the iaea and mr. grossi have been try to get access for a number of months. the problem is, if you as the iaea go to zaporizhzhia, are you getting the approval of the russian state, the russian government to access a new facility in another country that actually still is a sovereign nation for which the zaporizhzhia plant still belongs? there's a lot of behind-the-scenes tension in terms of whether the russian state has anyight to say to the iaea, yes, you can come visit us. the politics are complicated. it is not clear to us what safety rules the iaea would play. we have ukrainian nuclear employees working on the site and russian military and russian state nuclear agency people. what role does the iaea play in that? it has a safeguard

function which is to ensure nuclear material is not diverted for military purposes but there is no evidence that any nuclear material on the zaporizhzhia would be diverted by the ukrainian government. the russians, they've got so many nuclear weapons and nuclear material in their own country, they don't need to divert from zaporizhzhia. so it is not really clear what is going on with regds to the iaea's ambitions to go there. in part, it is driven by mr. grossi's personal ambition. he seems to want to be seen as the savior of everything. the situation is a lot more serious than it individual ego of any one particular individual. nermeen: we will turn on a second-tier report, the greenpeace report, the investigation into the chernobyl plant, which russian forces occupied during their invasion for over a month in the early days, but could you talk about

what your concer are with respect to zaporizhzhia, people sank you could actually come if the plant is damaged, the situation could be worse that what happened at turn double? >> clearly, it is an intolerable situation that employees are occupied ukraine's nuclear power plant at zaporizhzhia. for the workers, their families whose job it is to try to maintain the safe operation of the reactors, that is carly an outrageous situation and must be terminated and ended as soon as possible. the only way that can happen is for the russians to withdraw immediately. that is not going to happen. what sort of scenarios are the most sever the loss of cooling functiono the reactor cores. there are the out of six that are currently operating. that would be a major problem. we know the generators that provide emergency power at zaporizhzhia have long-standing problems, not particularly

reliable. the battery power is extremely limited. so loss of power is really the most severe issue that concerns us. also at the site, there are thousands of tons of spent fuel, the highly radioactive material th comes out of the reactors. much of that is in dry stores which are of less concern but the material in the pools from the swimming pools inside the reactor buildings, they need to be constantly cooled. whicheans in the zaporizhzhia site yet benchmark to be ever released by chernobyl in a war zone where the personnel are under direct military threat at all times. so the ability to respond to any event, particularly more severe event like loss of cooling, is extremely compromised. at that point, looking at potential massive releases of radioactive material, potentially greater than chernobyl. that is the reality of having a

nuclear power plant in a war zone. amy: on the issue of chernobyl, talk more extensively about what you found in your report that says the damage at chernobyl, as you said, so much worse than we understood. >> for a number of months, we've been in discussionith the ukrainian government and had the opportunity -- a unique opportunity to conduct a survey radiation survey and meet with scientists whose responsibility is to manage and oversee this enormous exclusion zone aroun the nuclear plantrom 1986, still highly complex, highly radioactive, with many, many problems. the russians occupied favored 24, left on march 30. the report seemed to be confused. we went there to listen and hear from the scientists who experienced the occupation. these are laboratories that are

fulfilling vital safety work on radiation moving to the environment. this is an ongoing disaster site. we clearly saw the russian military had damage, damaged or destroyed parts of the operatory, stolen databases, removed hard drives. we also went into the area which they managed and were only able to go to one very small specific area because, unfortunately, the russian military have also decided to place landmines throughout the territory. some of it organized, some of it is chaotic stop tripwires, anti-personnel minds. the impact on the site is whose job it is to monitor activity within the chernobyl and provide warnings to firefighters from all of that has been compromised by the russian military occupation. what we found was that raoactivity levels, particularly one area whether russian military were, yes, it

was high but if you move only 500 meters away, it was many, many times higher. the idea this is a sittion under control that the radiation levels are normal -- which is what the iaea mr. grossi communicated in april -- is clearly not true. the situation is in collaterally -- incrediblyomplex. saying things are normal, it does not give any information whatsoever. we have severe doubts about the accuracy about what the iaea was trying to communicate in april. this is an ongoing crisis at the chernobyl site. the workers come the scientists need as much help as possible. it has international significance. amy: zia mian, i want to bring --shaun burnie, i want to bring in in dr. ira helfand immediate

past president of the international physicians for the prevention of nuclear war, recipient of the 1985 nobel peace prize. co-founder and past president of physicians for social responsibility and serves on the international steering group of the international campaign to abolish nuclear weapon, which won the nobel peace prize in 2017. as you listen to this report, shaun burnie just back from ukraine, about that what is happening at zaporizhzhia where the russians are basing themselves there so the ukrainians cannot attack because that would create a nuclear catastrophe, and his findings at chernobyl, your response? the situation is worrisome and it underlines what shaun is saying, the fact that these reactors are not designed to function in a war zone. it calls into question the entire nlear power globally because we just can't afford to run the risk of this

catastrophic accident happening with the enormous applications from that. tens of thousands of people were exposed to doses of radiation from chernobyl that led to them developing cancer and dying. the exact number is hard to come by but the estimates are in at least tens of thousands if not higher. we cannot afford to continue to operate these nuclear reactors given those kinds of risks. amy: we want to thank shaun burnie shaun burnie for being with us. of greenpeace who is just back right now from ukraine where he investigated what took place at chernobyl and is talking about the situation at zaporizhzhia. we will link to your greenpeace report investigation inside the chernobyl exclusion zone. dr. ira helfand, stay with us as we talk further about the threat

of nuclear war. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "eve of destruction" by barry mcguire. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. the united nations secretary-general antónio guterres warned this week that humanity is "one miscalculation away from nuclear annihilation." he made the comments at the opening of a major u.n. gathering in new york to review

the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. the meeting comes at a time when tensions are escalating between the united states and two other nuclear powers, russia and china. this is part of antónio guterres's remarks. >> the cloud that started following the end of the cold war are gathering once more. we have been extraordinarily lucky so far but luck is not a strategy, nor is it a shield of geopolitical tensions pulling over into nuclear conflicts. today humidity is just one misunderstanding or miscalculation away from nuclear annihilation. we need the treaty of nonproliferation of nuclear weapons as much as ever. that is why this review conference is so important. it is no opportunity to hammer out the measures that will help avoid certain disasters and to put humanity on a new path toward a world freof nuclear weapons. amy: during his speech, u.n.

secretary-general also announced plans to visit hiroshima, japan. 77 years ago on august 6, 1945, the united states dropped the world's first atomic bomb on the japanese city, killing an estimated 140,000 people. two days later, the united states dropped another atomic bomb on nagasaki where at least 74,000 people died. to talk more abouthe threat of nuclear war, we are joined by two guests. zia mian is a physicist, nuclear expert, and disarmament activist. co-director of the program on science and global security at princeton university. co-author of "unmaking the bomb: a fissile material approach to nuclear disarmament and nonproliferation." dr. ira helfand, immediate past president of the international physicians for the prevention of nuclear war, recipient of the 1985 nobel peace prize. also cofounder and past president of physicians for social responsibility and serves on the international steering

group of the international campaign to abolish nuclear weapon, which won the nobel peace prize in 2017. his new piece in the hill is headlined "are russia and nato trying to wreck the npt?" dr. ira helfand, explain. >> well, there been multiple threats byussia and some by nato these nuclear weapons and at the context of the war in ukraine. this is a totally unaccountable situation. in response, our group organized a statement with 17 other nobel peace laureates demaing russia and nato make explicit pledge at would not use nuclear weapons under any circumstances in the context of this war. they refused to do that. now the're coming to the npt meetgemanding that the countries which don't have nuclear weapons continue to refraifrom aaining them whe they themselves wi not

echo promise not to blow up the world this week. it is in assure nearly critical situation. it is the kind of hitter which is put the npt at risk, great powers try to blame the treaty on prohibition of nuclear weapons, try to identify that as a source of risk to the nonproliferation treaty because 121 countries around the world have come together and said they will honor their obligations under the npt and not own nuclear weapons but the real threat to the npt comes from the five -- nato members who are obliged under the npt to enter into good faith negotiations to eliminate the nuclear arsenals and steadfastly refused for the last 50 years plus to honor that obligation. that is the problem we are facing.

the behavior of nato and russia and ukraine conflict has underlined this total failure of the permanent members of the security council to uphold their part of the bargain inherent in the nonproliferation treaty. nermeen: dr. zia mian, could you comment on your concerns about what is going on at the zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, which is the largest in europe in one of the largest in the world? >> the zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, as shaun burnie mentioned earlier and ira observed, nuclear plants were never designed, intended, or imagined to be in war zones. they are dangerous enough en in peace times given the history of nuclear accidents, complex technologies, institutional and human failures that we have seen throughout the history of all

complex technologies. but what we have seen for more than 40 years now are attacks on nuclear power plants. it is worth remembering, 40 years ago israel attacked the nuclear reactor in iraq, the first attack on a nuclear reactor by another state. during the iran-iraq war, reactors were attacked. one in israel was also attacked. no see nuclear reactors being attacked by cyber attacks also. what we have to ask is not so much the details of specific reactor in zaporizhzhia and the war in ukraine, but the fact of can we feel safe in a world where these incredibly dangerous technologies coexist in a system where we can barely manage ordinary technologies, never mind technologies with catastrophic failures. but one thing which -- target not just cities and people, but

also other kinds of industrial facilities, including nuclear reactors. so one of the things to keep in mind is india and pakistan long have lived with the threat of attacks on each other's nuclear facilities and in 1988, they agreed a treaty between them to not attack each other' nuclear facilities because i fears of the consequences of such attacks. this maybe the kind of thing that other states should also pick up on and asked the question, until we can shut down all nuclear facility safely and make sure these problems can't recur in the future, at least we should have an agreement not to attack them. nermeen: you worked with your colleagues at princeton earlier this year on a simulation looking at what might happen in the event of an escalation, how conventional war between the u.s. and russia could turn into a nuclear one. could you talk about that simulation and what you found?

>> several years ago, the princeton program tried to think about how to understand what would be the consequences of current u.s., nato, russian nuclear war plans as far as we could understand them. so after thinking through what those war plans involved using publicly open sources and what we know about the number and locations of u.s. and russian nuclear weapons, the targets, we actually tried to than go through step-by-step what would have been in conventional war, which escalated first with use of one nuclear weapon on the about a field to than retaliation to than escalation to a second stage of a larger use of nuclear weapons by both sides, then the all-out nuclear war and the consequences that would follow. it found within a matter of a few hours, there would be the

better part of 100 million casualties. the s. strategic command accepts publicly that all of their nuclear war exercises, on record, all of their nlear war exercises end in all-out global thermal nuclear war. so the war plans they have always end up with the end of the world. that is what we were trying to explore and trying to explain. amy: zia mian, during the nuclear in liberation treaty review conference, france, u.k., and u.s. issued a statement saying -- "nuclear weapons, for as long as they exist, should serve defensive purposes, deter aggression, prevent war. we condemn those who would threat to use or use nuclear war for intimidation, and blackmail. your response? >> this is basically the u.s.,

france, and u.k. saying our new weapons are good, yours are bad. even though as we all know the u.s. and u.k. and france make nuclear threats. it is called nuclear deterrence. the very preference of nuclear is military coercion, intidation, and blackmail. it is just when we do it, we call it deterrence. when they do it, you call it what it is, which is coercion, intimidation, and blackmail. daniel ellsberg, bless him, pointed this out in 1950's and a famous lecture saying nuclear weapons fundamentally, except during times of active war, are instruments of the threat of nuclear war, they are intended to be instruments of coercion, intimidation, and blackmail. so all i think we need to do is accept the fact that forhe firs time these three weapons states have recognized at least the facts that nuclear weapons

are about coercion, intimidation, and blackmail. it is just the rest of us understand this applies to everybody stick their weapons. nermeen: earlier this year, you attended the siena conference of the treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons. talk about the significance of that treaty, why it was formed to begin with, and what the substance of the discussion were. >> the treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons is the first international treaty that pans nuclear weapons absolutely and unconditionally and also is the first and only treaty that bans the use -- even the threat of use of new glare weapons. if we had actually had the treat on the prohibition of nuclear weapons enforced with the u.s. and russia and so on involved, there would have been no question of the threat of use of nuclear weapons by anybody. the origins of this treaty go

back to the beginning of the nuclear age. this was the first decision ever made by the united nations in 1946, before anything else, they said we need a plan for the elimination of nuclear weapons. what this treaty does, which entered into force in 2021, was to basically fulfill that first goal of the united nations. we now have an international legal instrument that pans nuclear weapons and the use and the threat of use of their weapons. in vienna, the countries that came together as members of this treaty, actually made a statement specifically talking about the threat and use of nuclear weapons as we see it today. they said this threat and use of nuclear weapons, including by russia and anyone under any circumstances, is a violation of international law, violation of the u.n. charter, and should be condemned explicitly and implicitly and respective of the

circumstances. you could not ask for a clear statement against the threat of nuclear weapons. unlike the kind of statement we saw you asked about from france come u.k. come in the u.s., which says our nuclear threats are ok, everybody else's threats are bad. amy: finally, dr. health and, the u.n. secretary-general heads to hiroshima for the 77th anniversary of the u.s. dropping the first atomic bomb in the world on her russia august 6, 1944 -- hiroshima august 6, 90 four, following by the second bomb on nagasaki in 1945. if you could comment on his comments saying we are closer to nuclear annihilation than er? he will be meeting with hiroshima bomb survivors and young activists. and also what you think is happening with the increased tensions with ukraine, russia, and china are -- now bringing

finland and sweden into nato, are escalating tensions? >> i think the tensions are escalating and we are closer to nuclear war then we have ever be. we need to recognize that. the song you played earlier in the show. that is the problem. we don't believe it's because it is such horrible reality that we're confronting, but we better start believing because it is true. fortunately, we have to understand this is not a future that needs to be. there is nothing that makes the destruction inevitable. it is not as though we are dealing with some force of nature that we have no control over. we know how to take these weapons apart and we need to do that. here in the united states, we launched a national campaign to try to force the united states government to change its nuclear

policy in a fundamental way, to recognize that nuclear weapons do not make the world secure. they are the greatest threat to security and need to be eliminated. to get the united states to play the role it should come initiating negotiations with other nuclear armed states, specific agreement so it will come to eliminate their weapons so they will neither a legations under article six under the treaty and meet their obligations with the new treaty on the prohibition of googler weapons. at the current session at the npt in new york, i think it is incredibly important than non-new their weapons states hold the security council accountable and demand nato and russia issued a statement pledging they will not use new their weapons in the context of the war in ukraine. they go beyond that and demand all five members of the security council's permanent members began now the negotiations to

eliminate the nuclear weapons as they have promised to do for years and they bring in the other nuclear armed states into that process. that can happen. this is not some fantasy. it is what needs to happen if we are going to survive. power steam to sit down and recognize the fact policies they are pursuing are going to lead to the end of the world that we know. they are playing this game of chicken, this game of king of the mountain. they don't seem to understand while there may be a winner, the person who is upsetting will be in as sheep of civilization -- ash heap of what is left o civilization. to do with the threat, the clinic isis community with the

future pandemics we will experience, and they need to cooperate. they need to work together or else done of us will survive. amy: dr. ira helfand, thank you for being with us, immediate past president of the inrnational physicians for the prevention of nuclear war, recipient of the 1985 nobel peace prize. we will link to your piece in the hill, "are russia and nato trying to wreck the npt?" thank you to zia mian, co-director of the program on science and global security at princeton university. coming up, we look at why the american right is embracing hungary's authoritarian leader viktor orbán, who is addressing cpac today, the conservative political action conference which is taking place in dallas, texas. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "as the world turns" by jessica pratt. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. donald trump has welcomed hungary's president viktor orbán

to his golclub in bedminster, new jersey, ahead of the conservative political action conference, or cpac, which opens today in dallas, texas. trump is delivering closing remarks saturday. orbán is speaking today. cpac's warm welcome of orbán comes just days after he delivered a racist speech in romania criticizing what he called race mixing in other european countries. >> there's a world in which european peoples are mixed together with those arriving outside europe. that is a mixed race world. and then there is our world where people from within europe mix with one another. amy: orbán's comments sparked outcry even from within his government. one longtime aide resigned describing orbán's remarks as a "pure nazi worthy of goebbels." budapest's chief rabbi zoltan

radnoti also criticized orbán's remarks. >> we cannot accept in any way the kind of communications that includes talking about racists and mixing of races within the jewish community. this invokes painful mems. amy: so far, none of the prominent conservatives scheduled to share the stage with victor orbán at cpac have condemned his racist remarks. that includes far-right tv personalities sean hannity and glenn beck, senator ted cruz, and congressmembers lauren boebert, matt gaetz, and jim jordan. to talk more about hungary and the american right's embrace of -- obsession with viktor orbán, we are joined by kim lane scheppele. she is a professor of sociology and international affairs at princeton university. she specializes in the rise and fall of constitutional government, focusing on hungary. we will talk about hungary and

here right through to the insurrection, professor, but start with orbán's speech today and his significance. >> orbán's speech is one paragraph out of the speech that went on for an hour. it was not as prominent in the speech is e inteational press attention, but still, it was a shocker for hungarians because for the first time, he used language that had not been heard since the 1930's and 40's. he used a word that was the word that referred to jews at that time. it is no wonder you're getting this reaction from one of his advisors who quit who was one of his few advisers that was jewish, as well as from the rabbi you quoted from from hungary. i might say it will taste something abouto's orbán --'s hungry, orbán wrote this letter, we have known each other forever, you know i'm not a

racist. within a few days she said,, yes, i know you're not a racist and she offered back. it will tell you something about orbán's hungry that criticism never lasts long and he manages to squelch it quite quickly. he is a dictator, which is an additional problem i guess in addition to his racism. amy: what counts is what he is doing in terms of, i mean, accounts a lot in hungary of course, but the fact the american right, cpac, has invited him today to give this major speech on the opening day. >> exactly. i think one of the reasons why orbán use that language in hungry is he knew he was coming to cpac. he will understand a lot of trump's base loves dog whistle or even not-so-subtle racism. orbán will understand perfectly well what supremacists form a big trunk of trump's base. i think orbán was playing is

much to the american audience as to the hungarian audience when he gave that speech. if you've been following orbán since he came back to power in 2010 and has been in power continuously since that time because he has rigged the election so no one else can win them, it turns out he's been saying these kinds of things about mixing races for a long time. he is dog whistle anti-semitism. one of his political campaigns he was demonizing with a lot of language that was clearly anti-semitic. he is the guy who stood up against the wave of migration from syria and iraq and other places, making references to a kind of another islamic invasion of europe. soone of this is really new. the thing that was new is the use of that particular language, and that means cpac could not be rprised that orbán is going to come and dog whistle white nationalism. nermeen: professor, you said a little bit now about his record

and the fact he has been in power for over 15 years, 12 of them consecutively since 2010. why do you think accounts for his appeal as you pointed out, he is a lawyer, he has appeal far beyond hungary. as you said come the elections are rigged in hungry so the fact he remained in power is not an indication of how much support he has. but why is he supported or why have people abroad also expressed an interest in ham, foremost, trump? >> well, trump loves winners and orbán is a winner of every election has been engineering. especially for the american right, kind of irresistible combination of culture war issues. now we see racism, white nationalism. but inhe past, y've seen he has railed against gender studies and gender fluidity.

when he rewrote the constitution of hungary in 2011, the constitution says fetal life is protected from the moment of conception. he has been on every single culture or issue for theast seven years that also has been the program of the american right. so the culture wars are really orbán's specialization to whip up hysteria post the thing is, these culture war issues in hungary disguise the fact underneath the surface orbán has been changing the laws of the country so that gradually he has shut down all of the independent institutions that might tell him no. in fact, since the covid epidemic started, he has been governing by decree. he wakes up one morning, issues a decree and that is law. essentially, hungary is a dictatorship in which he has rigged the election laws, rigged almost all of the other laws, and i think with the american right sees in him is the use of culture wars as a kind of cover

for creeping autocracy. you see it because the republicans are right now engaged in campaign a very orbán -like campaign by changing laws in the u.s. estate so that the republicans are going to win no matter who wins the popular vote. that is the kind of thing orbán did in hungary. some of the specific tacti the republicans are using here extly mirror what orbán did in hungary. cover the racism and stay for the autocracy. i think that is what is in it for cpac. nermeen: you called him the "ultimate 21st century dictator." he himself refers to himself as a christian democrat. can you explain what the significance of this is and how it fits into the european tradition of christian democracy? i mean, most recently, terman chancellor angela merkel came

from the christian democratic party. >> let me start with christian democracy. orbán's political party is associated european level with the european people's party which is the christian democratic party in europe that cancel mark a's party w -- angela merkel's party was also volved in. because it was in that european party, those people, includi especially angela merkel, have acquiesced in orbán's rise to power because they saw him as an ally. christian democracy is this incredibly useful cover for orbán because it gave him protection bause other christian democratic leaders for a long time thought he was one of them because of his public rhetoric. orbán, like tru, he has t support of evangelicals and

conservative christians without ever setting foot in church. in orbán' first couple of years in power, he presided over taking the number of registered religious organizations in hungary -- churches and synagogues and mosques, etc. -- there were 350 of those and in the first year he cut them down to 32. by removing the tax-exempt status from the others, he literally pushed hundreds of mostly small evangelical christian john nominations out of the country. you can decide for yourself what that looks like christian democracy. on the question of dictatorship and the 21st century dictator, i think when we look at dictatorships, we have i mind hitler's and stan. they come with big ideology and repressed their populations. modern human rights movement grew out of a list of the horrible things that were done under those dictatorships. so what is a 20 for centu

dictorship? it governs in a different kind of way. first of all, the mass human rights violations we saw in the 20th century are not orbán's stock and trade. if anything, he exert economic pressure against his opponents and in a world that habeen made for capitalism, economic interests are not protected by rights. so if u lose your job, if your business goes under, if you are deni social welfare benefits, if there is unemployment insurance, you cannot claim any of thosehings as a matter of rights b you can certainly feel pressure the government controlsll of those thingsnd keeps you line with these kinds of economic pressures. orbánas kind of analyze these 20th century dictatorshipsnd stepped into all of the plas that still allowim to exercise thismmense pressure on the people that he itrying to control witht ever stepping over the line of violating human rights.

so that makes him a very different kind of dictator. amy: professor, last year? carlsen took a show to hungary. i said it was sean hannity but it was carlsen. her tucker carlsen repeatedly praised orbán 's immigration policies. >> that is exactly why democrats become hysterical when you mentioned the obvious successes that are on display here in hungary on the immigration question. they don't want you to know there is an option to the chaos and filth and crime growing all around us. we don't have to live like that anymore. actually, we could have a functioning country. amy: if you can comment on this and the whole white nationalist trend in the united states? some of the people actually modeling themselves on -- as orbán followers. >> exactly on immigration you see the sharpest parallels between orbán and trump. if you know what trump did

thas stop immigration, first built a wall. viktor oán firstuilt a fence. then trump pushes the people seekinasylum back across the border to wait in this kind of limbo before they could get into the country. orbán set up these things he called transit zones, which were a kind of limbo as people awaited entry. the similarities between trump and orbán are so extreme, there was even a point about six month before the u.s. started doing it when orbán started separating parents and children. they did not lose trac of which parents were connected to white kids as happen here, b they decided they had no human rits obligations to feed the parents but they did have an international obligation feed the children. amy: 10 seconds. >> took the ildren, fed them, brought them back to e parent so kids could not share food. all of that was done trump-copied. amy: professor kim lane scheppele, professor of

sociology and international affairs at princeton university. specializing in the rise and fall of constitutional government, focusing on hungary. we will do part two and post it online at democracynow.org. [captioning made possible by democracy ñcñcñcñc cwñçñqñqñqñ3ñe