>> you are watching al jazeera. kenya's vice president has been declared the winner of the presidential election receiving just over 50% of the vote. >> i am a very proud opinion this evening. the people of kenya have raised the bar of those who seek leadership in our country.

not to serve ethnicities, but to serve our agendas and manifestoes. we do not have the luxury to point fingers. we do not have the luxury to complain. we must close ranks and work together for a functioning democratic prosperous kenya. >> the announcement was delayed because of scuffles in the vote counting center. after four of the seven members refused to endorse the results. it fueled fears of further violence and allegation. it is been 12 months since the taliban took control of afghanistan. millions are left in poverty.

and an israeli soldier has been killed and others wounded during a friendly fire incident that took place in the occupied west bank. forces initially reported they were shot at by palestinian gunmen and stormed in search of the attackers. u.n. says they can support a visit by -- if russia and ukraine agree. the two countries accuse each other of selling the facility. those are the headlines. stay tuned now for inside story. ♪

laura: a global treaty for the high seas. u.n. member states trying to agree a deal to protect fragile ecosystems in international waters. why is it important and what has prevented an agreement until now? this is "inside story." ♪ hello there and welcome to the program. i'm laura kyle. countries have tried for years to reach a global agreement on protecting the high seas, it areas of the world's oceans that fall beyond the jurisdiction of any one nation. each country has exclusive use of its territorial waters which run up to 370 kilometers from the shorelines. they are highlighted in light blue on the map. beyond that in the dark blue are

the high seas international , waters that make up most of our planet's oceans. scientists say existing laws aren't strong enough to protect those areas. the high seas are crucial for supporting marine life as well as absorbing carbon dioxide and heat caused by global warming . u.n. member states are meeting in new york to try to agree on a legally binding treaty. they've been negotiating for the past 10 years. two thirds of the world's ocean is considered international waters. that means all countries have a right to fish, ship, and carry out research in them, but only. -- but only 1.2% of them are protected. this means most of the world's marine life is exposed to growing threats from climate change overfishing and shipping . if c commit to the treaty, 30% of the world's oceans would be considered conservative conservation areas by 2030.

that means that environmental impact assessments will have to be carried out before any commercial activities such as deep sea mining are allowed well -- allowed. at the un oceans conference in june secretary general antonio guterres said some governments were deliberately stalling progress on a tree. >> egoism. we are dealing with the protection of biodiversity in international waters but some people still think that they are powerful enough to think that international waters should be theirs. i think it is important to make everybody understand that international waters are ours of all countries and all peoples in the world. laura: let's bring in our guest. in new york we have jessica battle, senior expert on global ocean policy at the world

wildlife fund. in london, danish mustafa, professor of critical geography at king's college london and also in new york will mccallum head of oceans at greenpeace uk . will is also head of greenpeace's delegation to the u.n. in new york. very warm welcome to all of you. first i think it's important to address the fact that we're talking about half of our planet left currently unprotected. it's an incredible amount. will, why is it so important to change that? will: it's so important to change the status quo because we're seeing that threats to the ocean are only increasing. threats like overfishing, illegal fishing, deep-sea wine -- deep sea mining. all continuing to increase and very little action being done to actually protect the biodiversity out there on the ocean.

all of this depends -- all of us depend on a healthy ocean to regulate the climate and absorb carbon and keep us resilient. there is a risk of food security through political inaction and that's not good enough which is why we are here this week campaigning for a strong treaty. laura: before you talk about that, this is a part of the world not many of us have seen yet. who goes out there and what activity do we see out on the heisey -- on the high seas? >> few people in the world have the capability to undertake deep-sea mining. the u.s. was the only country until the 1990's who could. maybe japan now has developed that. maybe a couple of other countries but the u.s. continues being the largest when it comes to it.

practically the only player. so really when you're talking about regulation of the high seas you're talking about a handful of extremely powerful technologically advanced countries, united states being at the forefront of that so the question of regulating deep sea mining is probably intricately connected to domestic politics within the united states where it becomes politically feasible for an administration to forego an almost exclusive capability that they have to undertake the kind of activity that this treaty is trying to regulate. mozambique or south africa or pakistan or bangladesh would happily sign the treaty because they don't have the capability to go out into the high seas and undertake the mining activities. when it comes to deep-sea fisheries, there are only a

handful of countries that have the factory boats to undertake the deep-sea waters for fishing. united states, canada, norway, iceland, japan, taiwan, korea, and there may be a few others that the other participants are probably mindful of and know of . so again this treaty really is about a handful of countries that can actually do something in the high seas. there was a reference in the clip you ran earlier that there are some countries which think they are powerful enough to not worry about the rest of the world. so let's name them who don't think it belongs to the rest of the world. laura: jessica, let's bring you when. why don't we just make this a domestic issue and hone in on

the few powerful countries? why does it have to involve the whole world? jessica: because the united nations law of the sea treaty which is the one under which this treaty is being negotiated actually has 165 parties. it's a global treaty and the high seas belong to everyone so we cannot allow just a few countries to exploit these areas that have so many benefits for so many people and so many countries' economies as well. so that it is very, very important that almost all these countries become if not all become parties members too this treaty when it's finalized so that everybody is covered by it and all activities are covered by it. we believe, and this is also

what guterres said, the secretary general of the united nations in in the clip in the beginning, that the ocean beyond national jurisdiction is really the last tragedy of the commons . there are those who exploit it to the benefit of them but the detriment of all of us and our children's futures. so even though it's a few countries today that have the ability to go out and what they do is that they subsidize for example their high seas fishing fleets tremendously, it's very expensive to operate on the high seas, and they catch too much fish, they destroy important habitat, living space for marine creatures and they also catch a , lot of important species. large whales, for example. so yes it is just a few

countries who have activity but it is in all of our interest and responsibility. laura: we know countries like australia, new zealand, blocs like the eu are in favor of this treaty. what about america and japan. are they on board with it? will: most countries are in favor of a treaty but the question is how strong it will be. greenpeace, environmental campaigners, for us the success of this treaty and its strengths will be determined on whether or not it has the power to protect areas of the high seas, can it actually put areas of the high seas off limits to some of these destructive industries we've been mentioning. if it can come up we would consider it a strong treaty. it remains to be seen how hard the eu in particular are willing to push for this. we're really worried at the

moment entering into these negotiations in quite a tense place, wondering how far will countries that have previously been supported be willing to compromise. because we desperately need a strong treaty that can actually deliver ocean protection. the uk government for example along with many others has been traveling around the world campaigning for at least 30% of the world's oceans to be protected by 2030. that's what scientists say is needed to restore fish populations keep our oceans more resilient to climate change. that target is impossible without a strong treaty. so urgency is what we need to see in negotiations. laura: so urgency and willingness. and we need to know how to protect the oceans. we're talking about places that are very inhospitable, that are

very inaccessible. how do we police the high seas? >> to get back to my earlier point, very few countries in the world have the capability to enforce. the same countries that have the capability to go out there and undertake deep sea mining or subsidize their deep sea fishing fleets are the ones who also have the capability to actually police those. so the perpetrators are also the ones we are asking to police their behavior. so you can get your treaty and if the united states doesn't sign it it does it's not worth the paper it is written on. it's like climate change. it is more political traction in the eu and in the u.s. to some extent. it is in the public eye but high seas is something that that's very far away from the public's consciousness. few people go out there and get

excited about it. that is the paradoxical problem on your hands. so the you and can do what it wants. 164 country sign it and the u.s. doesn't, you have a treaty, so what? the main country who can do something about it or is the problem doesn't sign it so end of discussion. that's like saying let's have a climate change tree but not having china or the u.s.. it becomes meaningless. laura: jessica, what is your response? you can get everyone to sign it but will the u.s. be willing to police itself? and what is the response to that. jessica: i don't think we should focus too much on the u.s. because there not part of the law of the sea convention but still behave according to the law of the sea convention.

i think what is really important here is as we heard that the states who are parties to this treaty are obliged to also make sure that the vessels they flag, all activities on the high seas are taking place on vessels take place from boats and they have flags and the flag state is responsible for the behavior of the vessels and need to police this so we are hoping the treaty would foster better collaboration between flag state. let's not forget other treaties such as the conventional

-- convention of migratory species that was set up to protect animals that that migrate across jurisdictions so from the high seas to national -- to international waters, etc. and we have a lot of fish species and turtles, etc. that is one of those that they that this the flag states also have to make sure are followed and what we're hoping with this treaty is to establish this strong collaborative mechanism and also a sense of duty to report what is going on, how are they doing when they're implementing the treaty. so if there is a protected area established under the treaty that the flag of the vessels that they flag in such a way that does not break the law. laura: it will run against powerful interests like deep sea mining.

exploratory licenses have been released. how much concern does this raise for you? people will want to explore the deep-sea as land resources run out and we work to develop renewable energy, we are already finding minerals under the sea that contribute to it. how does this argument play out? will: on deep sea mining, there is no need for it. the big tech companies and car companies who need the minerals are looking at alternative materials. deep sea mining is being pushed forward by a tiny number of companies who want to find the new frontier to exploit. so it is a concern that it is even talked about seriously but really i think the other obstacles this treaty faces and

so how optimistic i am, no one said deciding the fate of half of our planet was going to be a simple task. it's wrought with complexity and difficulty but it's also this most enormous opportunity and i have a lot of hope going into the next two weeks because the science is so clear that when you protect the oceans properly, when you when you put areas off limits to human activities, when you limit the more destructive industries out there, it has this remarkable ability to bounce back and restore life at a scale you do not see on land. the idea that protecting it will reap the rewards i hope will drive some governments to push the most ambitious treaty they can. laura: i love your optimism and want to share it but negotiations have been going on for 10 years. what makes you think this is the

year it will be agreed? will: some very powerful countries in the room are saying this will be the year. the eu is coming out saying we have to see a treaty. other negotiation groups like the pacific small island groups and the year. ultimately governments don't want to be sending delegations to new york year in year out to debate the future of half our planet. they want results. but it is very disappointing not to see ministers from most countries here. that would really send the signal this is a political priority. so if in the first few days we're seeing these talks are replicating the same cumbersome bureaucratic processes as before then absolutely we're going to be writing to ministers around the world saying, you have to get here now. you'd have to make your voice heard now. it is not easy. 165 countries agreeining on anything is not easy. but we believe we have all laid

the groundwork for years and governments are ready to agree that they want this. laura: will you find it is watered grant -- watered down? greenpeace university of new york released a study in 2019 on how oceans could be protected by 2030. the areas in orange show the high seas that are protected now and as we said earlier it's about 1%. and this is what 30% would look like. that's the amount were focusing on. they say it is possible to safeguard a full spectrum of marine life without disrupting fishing and commercial activities. the 30% was brought down from 50%. 30%, is that possible at this stage of the game? >> i am no technical expert on fisheries and i cannot argue

with 30% or 25% or what is a good number for it. and i am not against the treaty, it would be wonderful if it happens and i hope the optimism is well-placed. but my view, it was just mentioned that flagged ships are the countries that flag the ship are responsible for the behavior of those vessels. the reality is a vast majority of the high seas fishing fleets are actually flagged by liberia and panama and these small countries out there which are basically flags of convenience, liberia is not going to go out there and the police a fishing trawler in the pacific and modify its behavior. the other important point that has just been raised is that the law of the sea is not subscribed

to by the united states. there is your answer. countries that have the capability to actually have high seas fishing trawlers fishing fleets, the countries that have deep sea mining may very well be a very minor part of the picture at the moment, in the future what happens, i don't know. those are problems of the major countries and i think i can understand why hawaii colleagues are hesitant to name names or focus on one country or another but that will not change the reality of the incredible power a few countries have to create a problem and control it. and without those, no one said that senegal is a problem, no one said that south africa is a problem.

with the high seas, there is a small cast of characters and unless we focus on those -- laura: let's let others jump in. will: it is a small number of countries creating the problems but also a small number feeling the impacts. we have to help those countries that might not have the diplomatic power as a single entity by creating these treaties that deliver a common good. so while it might not be some individual countries creating problems, perhaps the u.s. won't ratify the treaty but countries like spain, who have one of the largest high seas fishing fleets who have been lobbying the european union for a weaker position on fisheries, they will be bound by it and they will stick to it. same goes for france who has a large international tuna fleet.

and huge trading blocs like the european union can in fact through trade agreements keep other countries to the confines of these treaties, to the rules of the treaties. so whether or not a country ratifies it there are other mechanisms. jessica: thank you for that. i think we also have to remember that the treaty is not being negotiated in isolation. there are other treaties and other agreements that governments have signed onto because they understand we half of failing planet and we have to do something about how we treat it. there are sustainable development goals. they are not legally binding but they are an aspiration of the international community to make sure that all states either reduce the consumption because they consume too much or are able to partake in a sustainable

development in sustainably stewarding the resources we have to our disposal without further deteriorating the marine and the natural environment at large so i think we must remember that . these are commitments that these countries have also signed up to and we have to hold them accountable, which is why we need to make sure as will was saying that there's more political will, more political attention to this treaty at this time. laura: jessica, they've got a deadline at the end of this year to reach an agreement on this treaty. what happens if it is not reached? jessica: they would have to have another negotiation session. it's not an impossibility but during this time the ocean continues to deteriorate so we do not want a whole slew of more sessions and we would like them to conclude this treaty at this

time. but if there are a few small issues still to resolve then yes another session might be needed . but the ocean cannot wait. laura: we have to leave it there for the moment. we will be watching the next few days this convention very closely. thanks very much for taking the time to join us jessica battle , danish mustafa, and will mccallum. and thank you too for watching. you can see the program again anytime by visiting our website. that's aljazeera.com. and for further discussion do go to our facebook page. that's facebook.com/ajinsidestory. you can also join the conversation on twitter. we are @ajinsidestory. from me, laura kyle, and the whole team here, bye for now.

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