their money by force. >> this is al jazeera and these are your top stories. thousands of armenians are protesting against prime minister nikol pashinyan after more than 100 soldiers were killed in renewed fighting with as a vision, accusing him of betraying the country after he said he would sign a peace deal to ensure security. >> i officially state that no paper has been signed. moreover, no paper is going to be signed. there is no talk about any

paper. this is done for a special purpose, to weaken the resistance of our soldiers at the border. >> funerals have been held in azerbaijan for some of its soldiers. it is the worst violence since the war in two years ago in the nagorno-karabakh region. students prime minister magdalena andersson announced she will resign. she -- her coalition was defected in last week's elections. more eggs have began to file packed the coffin of queen elizabeth second. the queue is five kilometers long. the funeral is the biggest security operation the country has faced. ukraine's president visited an area in the northeast of the country that has been recaptured from russian forces. zelenskyy met soldiers in the city of easel and held a moment of silence for the troops.

the qatar emir is on a visit to doha. the u.s. state of california is suing an online retailer for violating antitrust and competition laws. it is key to preventing customers from selling products at higher prices from their own websites or at rival stores. those are your headlines. "inside story" is coming up next. ♪ imran: nearly 100 soldiers killed in a flare of infighting

between armenia and azerbaijan. russia is urging both sides to respect the truths agreed to two years ago. but can moscow and other regional powers prevent another war? this is "inside story." ♪ hello and welcome to the program. i am imran khan. armenia and azerbeijan-armenia each other for the latest violence along the border. dozens of soldiers from both sides were killed on tuesday. tension between the former soviet republics largely stems from a standoff over the contested nagorno-karabakh region. it is recognized internationally as part of as a vision, but controlled by ethnic armenian forces. the latest fighting happened to the west of the disputed area. armenia has accused its neighbor of sending soldiers across the

border and shelling military positions around several cities, but azerbaijan denies this, saying was responding to a buildup of landmines and weapons. russia said it had brokered a ceasefire, but on wednesday. armenia accused azerbaijan of resuming attacks. >> azerbaijan, not merely violated the cease-fire across borders, but it also targeted armenian positions and also civilian infrastructure inside armenia. it is a clear attack on a sovereign country, a clear attack on a u.n. member state. >> while armenia has been shelling as a beijing military positions for a few weeks now shelling has been , intensified over the last few days and over the same few days , armenia started amassing heavy weaponry and armaments along the border between armenia and azerbaijan. imran: so, who's mediating the conflict? armenia has asked for russia's help, and their foreign

ministers have spoken by phone. russian president vladimir putin and his turkish counterpart worship will discuss the meeting -- turkish counterpart president erdogan will discuss the matter when they meet this week. turkey's foreign minister says armenia should hold provocations and take sincere steps. and the european council president has called for a complete and sustainable cease-fire. as part of the minsk process russia, u.s. and france have , been trying to negotiate a settlement in the region for decades. but the u.s. secretary of state says he's worried about russia's role in the conflict. >> whether russia tries in some fashion to stir the pot to create a distraction from ukraine is something that always concerned about. but if russia can actually use its own influence for good, which is to again, calm the waters, and end the violence, and urge people to engage in good faith on building peace, that would be a positive thing.

♪ imran: let's bring in our guests. in baku, nigar arpadarai, member of azerbaijani parliament. in yerevan vladimir vardanyan, , member of armenian parliament. and in berlin, daria isachenko, who's a researcher at the center for applied turkey studies, which is part of the german institute for international and security affairs. welcome to the program. let's begin in baku first with nigar. the armenians are accusing you of escalating tensions. why are you doing that? guest: thank you very much for having me here today. first of all, armenians are not saying the truth. azerbaijan has chosen a path of peace. azerbaijan is not interested in increasing military tensions at a time when large scale construction works are being done in azerbaijan after the liberating of its territories. you know, there was a there's a very clear path to peace between azerbaijan and armenia. it may sound paradoxical, but

a chance for peace was created after the 2020 war when the trilateral statement was signed. prior to that, there was a major factor which played against sustainable peace -- the fact of occupation of azerbaijani lands by armenia. as you know, armenian army was holding a large part of azerbaijani territory under its occupation for 30 years. they expelled azerbaijanis from there. they destroyed everything, livelihoods, physical and cultural infrastructure there. but as long as this occupation was sustained, ovi asleep, peace -- obviously, peace was not possible. but the war removed this factor. armenians were pushed back to their borders, but it has already been two years and peace didn't come. you may ask me why it didn't come. trilateral statement ended hostilities. >> i am just going to disturb you there for one second. let's ask vladimir vardanyan in

yerevan. obviously, you've told us why. baku has accused you of lying, armenia, of lying and saying that you have broken the deal. have you? guest: it is very -- that during her speech she is saying that somebody is naturally the truth. it's not the first time we are discussing the issue, because we are members of the parliament and the rest of the council of europe, and i am listening to the same old story. let's start from the very beginning. i would just like to see that we are speaking about respect towards our international obligations. i would like to state very officially that armenia is under attack, and we are considering this attack as an international aggression. this is under article 2.4 of the

u.n. charter. we shouldn't somehow confuse the watchers of this program, because we are not speaking about nagorno-karabakh now, we are talking about sovereign territory. the eastern border of the republic of armenia is under attack. and as our armed forces liberated the territory of nagorno-karabakh, look at the warnings. armenians were pushed back. armenians are liars. armenians provoked. this is a very similar situation to which nancy germany used during the second world war, saying that polish troops are somehow, created a situation of provocation against the nazi soldiers. imran: vladimir, that is a very,

very strong statement. just one second. [crosstalk] imran: finish your thought. guest: you should listen to me. imran: please finish your thought. what is your response to that, nigar? guest: you can say many things, but you and the people watching have to look to the facts. armenia is not a victim, it's occupier. it has a long record of aggression and occupying . azerbaijan has never occupied any land. guest: we are occupying. your troops. your troops. guest: right now armenian soldiers armenian illegal armed , groups are still on the territory of azerbaijan. what are they doing there? prime minister pashinyan has signed a trilateral statement which clearly said that armenian illegal armed groups should be removed from the territory of azerbaijan. we've been waiting for two years.

what are they doing right now on the territory of reservation? is it acceptable for any country, not only azerbaijan, any country in the world that soldiers -- again. again. [crosstalk] imran: ladies and gentlemen. let's bring in. let's bring in -- this is not helpful, we are all shouting over each other. i would like to bring in daria. there was a cease-fire agreed two years ago. the minsk group has been trying to formulate a peace plan for nagorno-karabakh for decades now. all of that has failed. this latest ceasefire agreement has also failed. where is the international community in all of this? has it got any more cards left to play, given what you have just heard? guest: well, i see two key issues that are still there since the war in 2020,

and this is the end result status of nagorno-karabakh, and the second issue is the blocking of transportation links in the gym. the last two years, these two issues have been stumbling blocks in the conflict. and to make it even more complicated, we see the position of other actors involved, like russia and turkey making a difference in this issue. i think it was the hope of turkey and russia that unblocking transportation links can be a step further, but even this did not work. i also see that there is a difference in how to approach the conflict from other parties. for example, i think from the

russian perspective, it has been kind of step-by-step. there is the issue of demarcation of borders, addressing transportation links, and the peace agreement would come last. for turkey, it is very much the same position as azerbaijan, but i think what we have seen from the european union -- [crosstalk] guest: we don't speak about -- imran: vladimir -- guest: sorry, but i should say this. we are not speaking about nagorno-karabakh at this time. we do not need mislead the people who will watch us. we are speaking about proliferation of azerbaijani troops in the territory, in the very depths of the territory of the republic of armenia. ok, there are a lot of countries whose partners are not demarcated.

but it doesn't matter, there are some internationally-recognized borders, and azerbaijan recognizes these borders in different documents in universe, in regional. please, do not mislead the people who will watch us. and i would like to request our colleagues from al jazeera to put the map, the armed attacks, to show to the people that we are not discussing nagorno-karabakh. we are discussing now sovereign territory of the republic of armenia. imran: what is your response, is it sovereign territory of armenia nigar? ,guest: yes. i have a really good response, which is very obvious now. that peace should be built on mutual guarantees, right? we are speaking about peace, we are saying that we are ready for peace. first of this guarantees is very simple. when armenia recognizes territorial integrity of azerbaijan, and azerbaijan recognizes territorial integrity of armenia without any tricky disclaimers, you know, just straightforward. simple statement saying that as

armenia recognizes territorial integrity and the internationally-recognized borders of azerbaijan. are they ready to do that? no. we've been speaking for two years about peace deal, but as armenia? can i finish? can i finish? [crosstalk] i am trying to finish my thoughts please. guest: you cannot mute me, sorry. guest: so the statement should be very simple. we recognize each other 's internationally-recognized cities. we do not support separatists, we do not have territorial claims towards each other. we are ready to do that. armenia is not ready to do that. they have always disclaimers. if you ask him, he will have you know very long explanation why this cannot be done. we are ready to do that and you know why it's not. imran: gentlemen, ladies, i will come to you if you just give me a chance to ask this question to daria isachenko. daria, you were talking there

, -- our guest was talking about mutual guarantees, common ground, effectively. is there any common ground that russia, americans and turkey can bring to the table that will result in a peace treaty? guest: my assumption was that the transportation links in the region present some kind of common ground. but nevertheless, it has also been a contested issue, because of how each side sees it differently. but i think starting from this, there can be indeed a common ground, because it is in the interest not only of the parties, the question is on how to do it. but when you look at other actors, there isn't mutual interest in having an economically-developed -- to

economically develop the region. imran: but when we talk about the regional players, we are talking about russia, we're talking about america. when those two countries get round the table, it simply doesn't become about armenia, azerbaijan anymore. ukraine is there, the sanctions are there, and there are many other issues that they need to concentrate on. nagorno-karabakh the issue of , armenia and azerbaijan, simply is not that high on their list, is it? guest: this is indeed so. i don't know if it's a problem or not, but i would still say that this is about armenia and azerbaijan and then it becomes complicated because for some other players in the conflict also play a role. it is not a chance that russia did emerge within the minsk group as a leading player, because the conflict matters to russia much more than it does to the united states, to france or

even to the european union. imran: your president has spoken to vladimir putin, vladimir. vladimir putin is going to speak to president erdogan in samarkand. what would you expect them to be talking about at those meeting? guest: if it is possible to talk about each and every issue, what we are listening from our colleague, that since there is no final peace accord, we are allowed to do what we would like to do. that is not true. the reality is the following -- we should respect the principles of international law, and nobody after the creation of the u.n. charter, is not allowed to use force or use the threat of force to solve the political issue or somehow undermine the international recognized borders. or the sovereignty of other states. but we are listening.

we are saying that since we have no final peace accords, we consider ourselves to be allowed -- imran: that is not the question i asked you. the question i asked you is, what do you expect vladimir putin and erdogan to be talking about this meeting they will have in samarkand. i am going to make the question even blunter. do you think russia is representing your interests? guest: we do believe that each and every civilized state should represent the interest of the country which is under attack. under attack, which is considered as an aggression under international law, which is considered as a crime not only by customary international law but also by the rome statute of international criminal court as well as it is a crime under the azerbaijani criminal court, . imran: what would you expect erdogan to say to vladimir putin? do you think he's representing your case?

guest: it is a very funny thing, a country which has occupied another country, created aggression, expelled azerbaijan from its territory speaking about aggression. regarding the talks and the mediators and other actors, i believe that armenia and azerbaijan should have bilateral negotiations. we've been calling that for many times. just sometime ago, a few months ago, our leaders have met in brussels several times and we have been speaking about a peace deal. but the statement was one thing. the armenian prime minister was coming back and saying completely different things, you know. in brussels when the president of the e.u. counsel was cheering the sessions they were discussing one thing and coming back and saying another thing. bilateral negotiations should be the key. of course, we are open for any

mediator. we work closely with all the countries and we are positive about that. but we suggest a peace deal. we say that we have put our terms on the table which are nothing beside international law, and armenia is avoiding that. why are you avoiding that? why do you not want to sign a peace deal with us? why are you not recognizing our territorial borders? imran: let's start with that. vladimir. why aren't you? guest: i am ready to come to negotiation with you. guest: you did not answer. no explanation why. guest: in a second, i will give you an answer. let's go to sit on the round and negotiate. it is impossible to negotiate if i come with a gun and you are with the dogs. or you come with the gun, with the gun and we are speaking about peace. imran: daria in berlin.

-- [crosstalk] imran: one second. let's bring in daria here. this idea of bilateral talks, both of the guests have mentioned it so far. we are very far away from bilateral talks, but can we get there with russian, american, turkish intervention? guest: well, i honestly don't know. but i do see russia and turkey playing a central role just for the mere fact that they are there on the ground. they do have a special relationship. for example, russia and armenia, even though they have become strained, not least due to the russian stance in the war in 2020, turkey and azerbaijan also have a special relationship. i think this matters. but ultimately, you cannot,

irrespective of who plays mediator, i think it is essential that it is up to both parties to come to a consensus. and i think the key issue here is really security, because, as we have seen in this discussion, this still is the major issue. so i think the answer could be some kind of peacekeeping force. i don't know how realistic. but i do see the consensus between the parties themselves, between armenia and azerbaijan are central here as well. imran: you are both members of parliament both in baku and in yerevan. vladimir, you've said that you're willing to have bilateral talks. nigar, you've said that you are willing to have bilateral talks. why don't you put pressures on your governments to actually make that happen? let's begin with vladimir first. why don't you put pressure on your government to make those bilateral talks happen?

guest: we are in negotiations for more than two years. we have started the process up in november 9. we actually announced the era of peace and we worked towards the establishment of normal, friendly relations between our neighbors. it is strange that negotiations have continued all this period, but it is very complicated to negotiate when you are negotiating and your counterpart said, ok, you don't agree, i will bring another artillery, another drones. i will try to infiltrate another part of your territory. but you should continue to negotiate. we are ready to negotiate. we would be ready to negotiate, because negotiations are part of international law. negotiation is part of the civilized world. bubut what we have -- is it

possible negotiating with a beast who tried to eat you? we are ready to sit and negotiate. we're here, and to start negotiation, we should festival all -- we should first of all stop all military activities. otherwise -- imran: sorry, vladimir. we are running out of time. we want to put your point to nigar in baku. negotiations have been taking place, but there have been accusations by armenia that they're at the point of the gun, that you are actually using violence during these negotiations. are you? is this your tactic? guest: as i said, look at the facts. they are internationally-recognized borders azerbaijan and armenia ,, and there is a long record of armenia breaking and violating our territorial integrity. this is the fact. it is not something that he is saying or i am saying. he said stop military

activities. this is a very good point. so this is the reason why i am asking why armenia didn't fully remove it's illegal armed force from territories of azerbaijan? we are also seeing stop military activities. remove your illegal forces from the territory of azerbaijan. let's have a seat at the table & a peace deal. we want a region where corporation will be. where prosperity will be. imran: sorry, we are running out of time. daria, given everything you have heard, this idea that there can be international mediation within this actual conflict itself that seems to be so far from actually happening, is the international community a problem here? surely something needs to , change. they've been trying the same tactics now for a while. guest: i do see that this constellation that we have now in the international arena, it complicates it even more. because now we have this

confrontation between russia and the west. i would still say that the minsk group has been not very successful. you have russia, france, and u.s. so it is not only up to the international community to solve this, but given the situation as it is now, it also becomes complicated because there, you would have this kind of import of issues, bilateral issues between russia and the u.s., or russia and france, or russia and the e.u., which would have an impact also on the conflict in the south caucasus. imran: i want to thank all our guests -- nigar arpadarai in yerevan, vladimir vardanyan and daria isachenko in berlin. and i want to thank you, too, for watching as well. you can see the program again anytime by visiting our website aljazeera.com. and for further discussion go to our facebook page, that's facebook.com/ajinsidestory. and you can also join the

conversation on twitter. our handle is at @ajinsidestory. from me, imran khan and the whole team here, bye for now. ♪

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