10/05/22 10/05/22 [captioning made pble by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! pres. biden: we are going to make sure you get every dollar promised. i am determined to help puerto rico to be better prepared for the future. amy: president biden visited puerto rico monday where hurricane fiona collapsed the island's electrical grid. today he is in florida to meet with survivors of hurricane ian

whface a long recovery amid a crisis that could leave many of them on house. we'll speak with florida state representative michele rayner, who is helping with relief efforts in the hardest hit neighborhoods, and go to san juan. then, mass protests in haiti enter their seventh week to demand the resignation of the u.s.-backed prime minister and condemn rising fuel prices. >> we me here to bywater. amy: we will go to port-au-prince and then back to united states for the trial for stewart rhodes and four other members of the far-right groups oa keepers >> the first couple of days, and bill that rhodes and others began mustmmediately to get organized to try to prevent the

certification of the election results. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy is claiming ukrainian's military has recaptured areas in the kherson, kharkiv, luhansk, and donetsk region as ukraine continues to mount a larger counteroffensive including areas that russia has claimed to have annexed. this comes as the united states has announced a new $625 million military aid package for ukraine including four more himars rocket launchers. russia's ambassador to the united states denounced the u.s. military aid saying moscow perceives it as a "immediate threat to the strategic interests of our country." meanwhile, a number of top ukrainian officials have criticized the world's richest man, elon musk, for floating a

plan to end the war involving -- in a widely read twitter post, moving for crimea to become formally part of russia, for ukraine to remain a neutral country and for the u.n. to supervise a redo of elections in areas annexed by russia. musk posted his plan on twitter on monday, a day after pope francis issued his strongest call yet for russia and ukraine to find a way to end the war. >> my appeal goes above all, to the president of the russian federation, begging to stop this . on the others, pain by the enormous suffering of the ukrainian population following the aggression it has suffered, and appeal to the president of ukraine to be open to serious proposal. amy: that was pope francis on

sunday. on tuesday, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy signed a decree ruling out any talks with russian president vladimir putin. the u.s. supreme court heard oral arguments tuesday in a case that could lead to the further gutting of the voting rights act. some legal analysts say it appears the conservative majority may vote to uphold alabama's racially gerrymandered congressional map while rejecting some of the state's broader legal claims. alabama has defended its new congressional map, describing it is "race neutral," but critics say it was designed to dilute the power of black voters. during oral arguments, justice ketanji brown jackson, the court's first black female justice, questioned alabama's claims and said the framers of the 14th amendment did not intend it to be "race neutral or race blind." >> the entire point of the amendment was to secure rights of the freed former slaves. the legislature who introduced

that amendment said "unless the constitution should restrain them, those states will all, i fear, keep up this discrimination and crested death the hated friedman. that is not a race neutral or race blind idea in terms of remedy. amy: after oral arguments naacp lawyer for the named plaintiff in the case, evan milligan, spoke outside the supreme court. >> any time -- think about race but that in and of itself is unconstitutional. what you would end up with is a lot fewer majority minority districts and even fewer districts where minority voters can elect candidates who are responsive to their needs. amy: in more legal news, former donald trump has filed an emergency request asking the supreme court to intervene in

the dispute over classified government documents the fbi seized from his florida resort mar-a-lago. trump has asked the justices to block a lower court's ruling which allowed the justice department to resume its use of records marked as "classified." in news on the january 6 insurrection, the seditious conspiracy trial of the oath keepers founder stewart rhodes and four other members of the far-right group is continuing in . on tuesday, prosecutors played for the jury an audio recording a meeting held by the oath keepers after the 2020 election where rhodes talked about bringing weapons to washington, d.c., to help donald trump stay in power. in the recording, rhodes is heard saying -- "we're not getting out of this without a fight. there's going to be a fight." rhodes also talked about keeping some members of the group outside of the city who could provide backup support. he is heard saying -- "i do want some oath keepers to stay on the outside and to stay fully armed and prepared to go in if they have to."

during opening arguments, assistant u.s. attorney jeffrey nestler said -- "their goal was to stop, by whatever means necessary, the lawful transfer of presidential power, including by taking up arms against the united states government. they concocted a plan for armed rebellion to shatter a bedrock of american democracy." we will have more on the oath keepers later in the broadcast. president biden is heading to florida today to see areas devastated by hurricane ian. the death toll from the storm continues to rise. so far 109 are believed to have been killed. authorities are concerned the storm could lead to a spike in homeless in florida as many residents, especially those living in mobile homes, lost everything in the storm. we will have more on the hurricane in florida and puerto rico after headlines. in labor news, amazon has suspended 50 workers who refused to go back to work after a fire broke out inside a warehouse in

staten island, new york. workers said it was not safe to go back due to smoke and flooding. the suspensions occurred at the only unionized amazon warehouse in the united states. this comes as the amazon labor union is calling on the company to stop stalling and start negotiating with the union. "the new york times" has confirmed the identity of a woman who played a key role in recruiting and tricking a group of 48 venezuelan asylum seekers in texas to board a flight to martha's vineyard in massachusetts as part of a political ploy by florida governor ron desantis. "the times" identified the woman as perla huerta. she is a former combat medic and counterintelligence agent who served in iraq and afghanistan. she was discharged by the army in august. the group lawyers for civil rights has filed a class action civil rights against huerta, desantis, and others involved in the scheme. a fire broke out today at a south force airbase after a south korean missile malfunctioned and ashed during a live-fire drill with the united states.

the incident occurred as tension is escalating in the region. on tuesday, north korea fired a ballistic missile over japan for the first time in five years. in the philippines, a veteran 63-year-old broadcaster was shot dead near his home in suburban manila on tuesday. percival mabasa, who was also known as percy lapid, was a prominent critic of president ferdinand marcos, jr. and his predecessor rodrigo duterte. he is the second filipino journalist to have been murdered since marcos took office on june 30. a six-month ceasefire deal in yemen has expired. the united nations is calling for an extension to the truce, but the u.s.-backed saudi-led coalition and the houthis have yet to support the deal. the u.n. special envoy for yemen hans grundberg urged both sides to avoid a new round of fighting. >> i would urge all sides to

exercise maximum restraint at this particularly sensitive period of time because at this moment of time, any small incident could spark something that could have devastating consequences. amy: a group of 30 palestinian prisoners being held by israel are now in their second week of an open-ended hunger strike to protest administrative detention, the israeli policy of holding palestinians without charge for up to years at a time. the hunger strikers include the frenchalestinian human rights lawyer salah hamouri, who has been held without charge for six months based on secret evidence. in ecuador, at least 15 people died monday in the latest outbreak of violence inside ecuador's overcrowded prison system. on tuesday, relatives gathered outside the prison in latacunga trying to find out if their loved ones were still alive. at least 316 people were killed last year inside ecuador's prison system, which is more than 11% over capacity. and in the united states in

georgia, the son of republican senate candidate hershel walker has publicly denounced his father in a series of social media posts that could shake up one of the most closely watched senate races. herschel walker is in a tight race with democratic senator reverend rafael warnock. the 23-year-old christian walker accused his father of threatening to kill his family and of running his campaign on a series of lies. christian walker spoke out shortly after "the daily beast" reported hershel walker had paid for a girlfriend's abortion in 2009. the anti-choice republican has denied the report despite the existence of physical evidence, including a copy of a check from walker and a receipt from an abortion clinic. on tuesday, christian walker said he could no longer stay silent about his father's actions. >> i stayed silent as the atrocities committed against my mom were downplayed. i stayed silent.

[indiscernible] it affected me because -- he has four kids, four different women. he was out having sex with other women. does he care about family values? lie after lie after lie. he gets on twitter and lies about it. ok, i am done. done. everything has been a lie. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. i am in new york joined by democracy now! co-host juan gonzález in new brunswick, new jersey. hi, juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: president biden is visiting survivors of hurricane ian in florida day and surveying damage from the catery 4 storm that devastated parts of the

florida's gulf coast. the hurricane's death toll has topped 109, with 105 of those deaths in florida, making it the state's deadliest hurricane in decades. search and rescue crews are warning they're likely to uncover more bodies in the coming days. at least 55 of the deaths were in florida's lee county. republican florida governor ron desantis dismissed questions during a news conference monday about why officials there did not mandate evacuations until the day before the storm hit. >> go ahead, ma'am. ok, ok, ok. stop. stop. this has been dealt with. lee county has explained what they did. they went through that. of course you're going to review everything we do in these storms. that is the way it works. amy: desantis meets with president biden today as many residents face a long recovery amidst a housing crisis that could lee many of them unhoused, especially those who have low or fixed incomes.

for more we go to st. petersburg, florida to speak with florida state representative michele rayner. she has been on the ground helping with relief efforts in the hardest hit neighborhoods in fort myers, which is in lee county, including harlem heights and dunbar. welcome to democracy now! it is great to have you with us. if you can talk about this whole story, the attack on the officials for not calling for evacuation earlier, but the whole issue of who gets hit hardest, who is it hardest to evacuate, for example, the poor, people who don't have access to vehicles, etc., and then what happens after the storm, who is affected most? give us a lay of the land. >> it is so good to be with you. this is a dream come true i love democracy now! and the work you do. to the question at hand, so i

have been black in for the dutch florida for 41 years. i have family in fort myers, and the done by area, and harlem heights. when thinking about evacuating, there is a privilege in being able to evacuate. not everyone has the means or the ability to be able to evacuate. that is number one stop -- that is number one. as we are looking at the response of lee county, we knew there was a hurricane coming but initially they thought it was going to hit my district and it turned. once again, telling folks to evacuate, especially in harlem heights and dunbar, there is a privilege at is there. secondly, after we are in this post hurricane response, the concerning matter is who is getting what type of relief? as i have been making calls about this, there has to be an intentional focus on our working

milies, on our farmworkers -- there's a large population of farmworkers do in southwest florida. also parts of these communities border of dunbar lives under the poverty line. but we knew there was going to be a disparity or an equitable response because of what has been going on pre-hurricane ian. juan: representative, could you talk about the housing crunch that exists in florida already before the hurricane in terms of affordable housing? reports of skyrocketing rent in many parts of florida. how do you see the numbers of people that are now homeless, how the state is going to be able to marshal and the federal government resources to be able to assist those who have no homes? >> juan, quite frankly,

floridians cannot afford florida. we have a housing crisis as you stated. there are ways to fix this housing crisis, but a republican-led to ship in the governor's mansn and legislure have chosen not to. we try to address the property housing crisis which was not addressed. it aided the insurance companies. with thinking about folks who are working families and folks trying to make sure they can rebuild their lives, number one, is there housing going to be the same or better as what they lost? are they going to be able to afford said housing? number three, are the insurance companies, they actually going to be ethical in their dealings with the people on the ground? we alrea see they have a crisis in our housing market,

live a crisis in our rental markets convey crisis in our property insurance market, and this storm has now exacerbated the crisis that we are at. and we are at catastrophic levels. my hope is female will come in and immediately start working with the most -- femwill come in and neatly start working with the most marginalized community's and making sure they can recover. juan: i wanted to ask about your governor and his stance on issues such as climate change. if i'm not mistaken, in the aftermath of superstorm sandy, he opposed federal aid tnew jersey and new york for the federal government after that catarophe. now he is being forced to basically ask washington for assistance, isn't he? >> yeah. the governor, he and other members of his party speak out

of both sides of their mouth. we saw members of the republican delegation, congressional delegation of florida vote against their own interest and their own constituents just this week about supplying eight to florida. they are more concerned about sticking it to joe biden and actually making sure they can take care of their people. right now desantis finds himself in that position. he is trying to figure out a way to keep sticking it to joe biden while simultaneously having his hand out. you can't do both of them. once again, this is why i was saying, we public servants. when we are elected, where public servants but there are some folks more concerned about being public than they are about being a servant. amy: let me ask you still on governor desantis but another issue, and that is the issue of migrants. we all know about what he did defending -- sending government

money to fly it is well of asylum-seekers from texas to florida to martha's vineyard and now there are number of immigrants in -- asylum-seekers in new york who have been shown flyers that there is paid work in florida, headed back down. "the new york post" was reporting this. what do you say to them, representative michele rayner, and being told they will get money if they go to florida? >> i don't know what to say, amy. one, it is heartbreaking that basically are governor kidnapped them. let's just call this thing what it is. under false pretenses. i am a criminal defense attorney. by any other standard come he would be facing prosecution for what he did. number two, while i understand folks need to work, they're trying to make sure they can

stay here in the united states because the conditions from where they are from our so dangerous, i -- i don't know if florida is the best place for them because we have a governor that has proven to be dangerous to people who do not look like him, to people who do not love like him, to people who are not at the same party, and the people who don't have the same wealth income that he has. so while i would wcome folks and say, please come, please work, please help us, and also be able to have money to send back to your families, florida is a little bit dangerous for folks who don't align with ron desantis. amy: let me ask you quickly, representative michele rayner, you're the first black openly lgbtq woman in the florida legislature.

next october is national coming out day. you're planning to lead a town hall meeting in the aftermath of the passage hb1557 don't say gay bill. can you talk about the impact it has had an our people continuing activism around this in the midst of this storm? >> it has had significant impact. it has had signifint impact on teachers. there have been teachers who have quit the education profession. we have had folks who are nervous of what they can say to parents. one school district right above my counter, they had teachers take off the safe space stickers. you have parents were concerned about their children safety. you have students who a reporting an uptick in bullying due to them being a member of

the lgbtq community. people are continuing their advocacy around this work because here's what we know to be true. if this legislature stays the same come if ron desantis wins a second term in the governor's mansion, these type of bills aren't going to just stop it don't say gay. we will see the bills we have seen in texas, criminalizing parents for trying to allow theirhildren to have gender affirming care and pushing the limit of what can be done. so we know right now with don't say gay, we have to continue sounding the alarm knowing this is a slippery slope as to what can happen, not only toward lgbtq youth, but also black and brown folks, working people, and working families. amy: representative michele rayner, thank you for being with us, democratic state representative. she has been on the ground and the hardest hit neighborhoods in

fort myers, including harlem heights and dunbar helping with relief efforts. a shout out to the community radio station wmnf who we turn to as the storm was hitting, serving the community in tampa and st. petersburg. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. president biden's visit to florida comes after he visited puerto rico on monday, two weeks after hurricane fiona collapsed the island's electrical grid with high winds, storm surge, and heavy flooding. biden pledged disaster relief as he spoke from the port of ponce on puerto rico's southern coast, which faced significant storm damage. pres. biden: we are going to make sure you get every single dollar promised. i am determined to help puerto rico built faster than in the past and stronger and better prepared for the future. we know the climate crisis and work stream whether or going to continue to hit this island and hit the united states overall.

as we rebuild, we have to ensure we build it to last, particularly focused on the power grid. amy: president biden speaking in ponce where one gonzalez was born. president biden's trip to puerto rico came five years to the day after then-president donald trump tossed paper towels to survivors of hurricane maria when he visited puerto rico after the category 5 storm plunged much of the island into darkness for nearly a year. for more, we go to san juan to speak with carla minet, executive director of the center for investigative journalism in puerto rico. carla, welcome back to democracy now! explain the extent of the damage. this is now to ask -- clearly, biden could not go to florida without going to puerto rico, which is still bearing their bright of the previous storm. >> yes. there was extensive damage, particularly because of the flooding in the south part of the island.

and because of the huge problem that we have been having with the electrical grid which clearly has not been addressed since hurricane maria. the official number from the government is 10% -- 20% of the population is still having problems with electricity. but lots of people and communities are saying they are not getting power back, so there is no car account about that number right now. juan: carla, i wanted to ask you when this hurricane hit puerto rico, it was just a category 1 storm, not with the power of maria or irma or some of these others. how is it possible the entire

grid, once again, of the island went down and what has been the role of the private company that the u.s. government forced puerto rico to take on replacing the publicly owned utility that existed back in the days of -- before maria? >> yes, basically, the electric grid has not been repaired. basically, less than 3% of the of the structure money that was awarded after hurricane maria has been used for infrastructure five years after maria. devastation of the generation part of the electricity company has been a huge problem. there is a lot of problems that

have arisen from that. and this company, luma energy, has been reported th has a lot of conflict of interest i puerto rico, hiring its own partners for different tasks to rebuild the grid and are not being done correctly. i guess there was a perfect storm in terms of the electric grid. no money from maria has been used. a new privatization company not from puerto rico and doesn't have the amount of employees it needs to respond to an emergency like this one. they don't even know the ground here in puerto rico. so all of those things together are a big problem, especially for people in the rural areas

and for electricity-dependent populations, people who need medical machines to live, a big poor relation in puerto rico -- a big population import rico. juan: it is been six years since the financial control board was put in place by congress, made predictions about how the economy of the island and the government budget will be fixed, but for most of this time the ceo of the control board, the ukrainian-american who executed puerto rico after being the finance minister -- people forget this -- in ukraine. she took over the finances of ukraine and then she came to puerto rico. she resigned in april. is there any change in the policies of the premise aboard since she left? >> no.

none that i have learned from since she left. no appointment has been made. there is no list of people that has been public being considered for the position. the control board has kept its austerity policies from then on. and also lack of transparency policies. as a matter of fact, yesterday the u.s. supreme court, you know, said they would take a case that -- in which we are asking for public documents from six years ago. so they're going to hear the

case the next months to see if the control board has to deliver the documents that they have exchanged with the government of puerto rico, which is what we have been asking for. so there transparency policy is in the same place. amy: carla minet, thank you for speaking to us. mass protests in haiti approach the third month domain the resignation of the u.s.-backed prime minister condemning rising fuel prices. we will go to port-au-prince. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "ogou" by the haitian music collective lakou mizik and joseph ray. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. mass protests in haiti are -- have entered their third month to demand the resignation of the u.s.-backed prime minister ariel henry and to condemn rising fuel prices.

police fired tear gas on monday at thousands of protesters marching in the streets of the capital port-au-prince. >> the conditions are unemployment, hunger, misery, and corruption in our society. if the prime minister solves insecurity and hunger, if he manages to solve the gang problems in the country, if you can manage the crisis, there will be no problem with starting classes. if he has no answer to these questions, he must leave power and hand it to the right person. amy: one of haiti's most powerful gangs has blockaded a key fuel depot since september 12 and many gas stations are closed. the gas shortage has shut down public transit and closed some hospitals. this comes as haitian authorities have announced eight people have died from cholera, the first cholera deaths in haiti in three years. a cholera outbreak a decade ago killed over 10,000 people in haiti.

for more, we go to port-au-prince, haiti, to speak with vélina élysée charlier, a haitian activist and a member of the nou pap dòmi collective. it means we are watching or we never sleep. welcome to democracy now! it is great to have you with us. can you talk about what is happening on the ground? you ve described this as a civil war. >> tha you for having me. it is always a pleasure. thank you for the opportunity to be talking about what is happening in haiti. at the moment, it is similar to a war situation in haiti. many of the major cities and even smaller cities are on complete lockdown. [inaudib] amy: we are seeing if we -- we

are going to try to get her back. we are talking to velina elysee charlier. the situation in haiti is absolute crisis. continue with what you were saying. >> one of the reasons i am breaking off because we are in fuel shortage for the past three weeks and even longer than that will stop it has been ree years since fuel and haiti. every few months we go through shortage. this is one of the worst we have seen. access to fuel the psalmist impossible. it gets to the point -- [indiscernible] we have a cholera outbreak.

[indiscernible] amy: juan, if you could ask the next question. i think she can hear you. i think she is back. juan: i wanted to ask you, you have said haiti has become a gangster state. could you elaborate on that? these gangs that have developed, especially in recent years, today reflect internal battles among the elite of haiti or what is the source and the funding of these gangs? >> haiti became a gangster state, unlivable place. the gangs we are seeing are very close -- using the gangs to control the population, to

terrorize the population, and y to kill any will the population -- protest against what is happening. they also use the gangs so they can change the narrative. for example, there asking -- [indiscernible] amy: as we fix the audio with velina elysee charlier, it is just too important to let her go with this point, let's go to another protester in the streets of port-au-prince. >> i'm on the streets for four reasons. we are here because of misery, because of the hunger we endure. second, ariel henry cannot rule the country. third, we are in charge of the streets. it is up to us to decide when classes begin again. ariel does not have dignity to open the school. we will open the schools and ariel mostly. amy: that is a protester in the streets. velina elysee charlier, if you

could continue with what you were saying and also talk about the prime minister. he was implicated, i believe, in the assassination of the previous prime minister moise just over a year ago. >> yeah. continuing by send the gangsters -- it was made possible with help [indiscernible] amy: if you could start again. again, we have lost you. we will give this one more try. it is really difficult. start again with what you were saying. >> so there is the gang coalition. the gangs are used by the powers sohey can control the people. it is their way of governance.

still the united states of america is in full support of the prime minister. none of the international community, including the u.s., have said they will stop the prime minister. it is business as usual as if everything was perfect in haiti. we believe if it was not the united states support of henry, we in civil society -- continue the dialogue. [indiscernible] amy: it looks like we get you 30 seconds at a time. juan, next question? juan: i wanted to ask about the role of united nations and there was this whole issue of

thousands of tons of food that was reportedly lost following repeated attacks on warehouses of the u.n. food program? >> well, in haiti, we do not have a good relationship with the u.n. when you say u.n. and haiti, the person that comes to mind is cholera. 10,000 people died from the cholera. first it was a battle for them to recognize there was cholera in haiti and then we had to fight for fuel. [indiscernible] a dentition to that, the u.s. also has a reputation -- [indiscernible] and because she was just talking

about the color i outbreak that the last several years ago after maria was brought in by the u.n. peacekeepers, sadly, and the 10,000 patients died. your pot does your final point as we lose you every couple of seconds? >> we are in a war-like situation. patients are dying. -- haitians are dying. there is a mafia in this country. [indiscernible] amy: velina elysee charlier, thank you for being with us haitian activist and a member of , the nou pap dòmi collective.

speaking to us from port-au-prince. we hope to get her on in the coming weeks on a less troubled line in these troubled times. next up, back in the u.s., the seditious conspiracy trial for oath keepers founder stewart rhodes and four others. we will get an update. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "coal miner's daughter" by the pioneering country music star loretta lynn. she died tuesday at the age of 90 at r home in tennessee. she was a coal miner's daughter. her father died at black lung. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. as we turn to the seditious conspiracy trial of the oath keepers founder stewart rhodes and four other members of the far-right groups underway in

washington, d.c. on tuesday, prosecutors played for the jury an audio recording of a meeting held by the oath keepers after the 2020 election where rhodes talked about bringing weapons to washington, d.c., to help donald trump stay in power. in the recording, rhodes is heard saying, "we're not getting out of this without a fight. there's going to be a fight." rhodes also talked about keeping some members of the group outside of the city who could provide backup support. he is heard saying -- "i do want some oath keepers to stay on the outside and to stay fully armed and prepared to go in if they have to." during opening arguments, assistant u.s. attorney jeffrey nestler said -- "their goal was to stop, by whatever means necessary, the lawful transfer of presidential power, including by taking up arms against the united states government. they concocted a plan for armed rebellion to shatter a bedrock of american democracy."

for more we are joined by arie perliger, professor and director of security studies at the university of massachusetts lowell. author of the book "american zealots: inside right-wing domestic terrorism." welcome to democracy now!, professor. if you can talk about the significance of thiseditious conspiracy trial of the oath keeper >> good morning. thank you for inviting me. i think one of the maj objectives is toxpose this militant organizations and groups that are really trying to undermine american democracy. i think the trial provides in detail a lot of specific -- try to mobilize the poor, how they were trying to really engage in actual plans to disrupt the transfer of power. we are talking about substantial

groups. e of the more concerning those groups is their ability to recruit substantial numbers of military personnel, tiveut formereterans, as well as members of law enforcement. juan: professor, i'm wondering if you can talk about how the oath keepers are distinct from the other either what supremacist or right-wing nationalist groups that have arisen. can you tell usbout their history and what makes them distinctive, particularly dangerous? >> i think what is distinguished the oath keepers is the focusing on the recruitment of law enforcement and military personnel. this provides them unique advantages. first of all, providing them more litimacy and at the eyes of the general public. it allows them to present

themselves as actual patriotic parts of the american public. and also to gain a lot of did missy because they -- legitimacy because they represent pple who sacrifice e nationfor the country, people who risk their lives are the nation. that is one element, theact that aows them to gain legitimacy and public support. the second advantage it provides them is access to operational knowledge, access to individuals who have experience in operations. it provides strong legitimacy as well as accesso a lot of operational and adjustable resources -- adjustable resources that many other groups do not have. since her foundation 2008, 2009,

-- in the initial phases of the organization, represent as more as a benevolent patriotic organization focused on protecting rights rather than some kind of conspiratorial, antigovernme organization. especially after the election of president trump, we see this ongoing gradual adoption of conspiracy theory, more militant and extremist views, as well as a more significant collaboration with other organizations and groups on the far right. amy: i want to ask about stewart rhodes, trained at yale, speaking on alex jones show. this is november 10, 2020, just after the election, almost two months before january 6. >> we have been already stationed outside the sea as a

nuclear option in case the attempt to remove the president illegally, we will step in and stop it. we have goodman on the ground already. we are sorting out and we will there. we will be on the inside and outside of d.c. and prepared to go in. amy: that is stewart rhodes. if you can tell us more about him, the man who founded the oath keepers, where he is standing in this seditious conspiracy trial. he founded the group after biden 's election. he wrote an encrypted message "we are not getting through this without a civil war." >> i think it is important to understand why it is so crucial for them, basically,o maintain trump at the center of the political landscape, why they were s insistent on keeping

trump in power. president trump provided them access to the political discourse. a lot of their sentiment, a lot of their our lead -- a lot of their ideas are able to penetrate the mainstre political discourse through trump and his administratio in many ways, satrump as a platform, as a tool that allow them to gain access into the government and to enhance their legitimacy. for years, there were -- when trump was elected, finally they were able to gain access to a much large audnce, much larger public, and to gain support from some elements within the government. for them, losing this was something they were not even willing to consider. for them it was a disaster situation, losing this. for them although it was clear, they believed they had significant support, significant

that will support them in their efforts to prevent -- anyone who is listeninto the discord, the language of those oups pri to january 6, new this is something that was very likely to happen. they would talk openly about their intention to use actual violence and resistance in order to prevent the transition power. just listen to the discourse of the group. juan: could you talk about the relationship between the oath keepers, if any, and other right-wing extremist groups, skinheads or the kkk or the militias, 3 percenters. yep documented thousands over the past few years by these groups in the united states.

>> the overl piercing much more in the last few years -- e overlap, we are seeing much more in the last for years. we can talk about january 6. i think because of all of those groups, we have seen the benefits of keeping trump in power, [indiscernible] we have to be honest, there is a spillover of a lot of the rhetoric of the white supremacy groups into what -- antigovernment groups such as the boogaloo movement, the oath keepers. we definitely see very strong sometimes racist, definitely this kind of language penetrate and become more and more present in the language of those

antigovernment groups. that initially were very careful not to be perceived as part of the white supremacist movement. but eventually, especially the last for years, we do see this overlap. there is overlap [indiscernible] amy: i want to ask about oath keeper thomas caldwell come also on trial in a retired u.s. navy intelligence officer from virginia. when authorities searched his home, they found he kept a death list that included the name of a georgia election official and their family member. yet caldwell has denied any violent intentions. this is fox news tucker carlson interviewing thomas caldwell. >> so this indictment -- you're pushing 70% or one how to percent -- or one had a percent. this indictment paints you as the commander of a crack commando unit.

where you plan -- what kinof heavy apons do you think that refers to? were you planning to do that? >> i have no idea and, no, i was not, tucker. i was a navy guy. maybe guys know about water but it like aircraft carriers. blue water navy here. this other stuff, i don't know anything about. didn't have any role in planning any of it. it is just more hooey. amy: that is thomas caldwell. he along with four others are on trial for seditious conspiracy. if you can rpond to what he says come his connection to the military, and other oath keepers and how connected to police and military they are? >> so it is difficult to say. we do know the oath keepers have significant penetration into

police oanizations, police agencies, law forcement agencies. it is really difficult and other multiple efforts to do more research and collect mor data -- i will say in terms of the ecific effort and attem to engage the assassination of political figures. sothing fairly new -- ttics adopted by groups. for most of the time in general it was not aiming to assassinate or focus on specific political figures must've killing political leaders was never really part of their arsenal of tactic. something that has changed in the last four or five years, we've seen plots to kidnap and assassinate the michigan governor. it seems the personal nature or

-- political discourse really drives more and more groups of the far right to focus on specific figures and try to target them or try to target [indiscernible] even during january 6, a lot of the language of the protesters spoke on specific figures such as nancy pelosi and others. this is something we need to look into, this growing focus on attacking specific political leaders. what we see right now, the case you just presented, see [indiscernible] focusing on political figures, rival political figures come and see them as legitimate targets. juan: we only have about a minute left, but a lot of this has happened in the open, which we should be thankful r because it is easier to trace, whether is social media or

their committed case is through texts and other means. you have expressed concern about these militias and cells and networks going underground, which would make it lot harder to be able to identify them and ferr them out. >> yes, i think we have a tendency to focus on the more visible gups. oath keepers and three presenters. dozens of local organizations that -- promoting such ideology and many of those groups and especially considering their recent development, more frustrated, angry, more open and they may resort to more violent operations. i don't think we need to see

january 6 as the representation of future threats or future action, i actually think january 6 is something that is easy to counter. i think law enforcement are now capable to prevent another january 6. they will be able to that. the main challenge is looking at all of those original local associations that may decide to engage in their ownctions and own activities. local law enforcement has less resources, less active intelligence. those are more vulnerable. local politicians are my main concern [indiscernible] amy: arie perliger, thank you for being with us professor and , dictor oserity studies at the university of massachusetts lowell. thor of "american zealots: inside right-wing domestic terrorism." that does it for our show.

i will be speaking tonight at penn state harrisburg at 7:00. tomorrow, i will be speaking at brown university at 4:00. you can check our website at democracynow.org for details. we have two fulloñéñéñéñéñéñéñéñ

(sophie fouron) i have to walk really slowly, but i can actually get really close to them. right there, royal penguins. we are between argentina and antarctica, in a windswept country: the falkland islands or the malouines, or the malvinas, depending on where you come from. you might remember