11/01/22 11/01/22 [captioning ma possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> not just affirmative action under consideration today. it is the trajectory of our future of democracy. amy: the supreme court said to an affirmative action and college admissions. we will hear excerpts from the oral arguments and get response. the new york has agreed to pay a total of $36 million to settle

lawsuits on behalf of two men wrongly convicted and jailed for decades for assassinating malcolm x in 1965. >> know, i did not do it. body ever thought i did it. our people never thought i did it. amy: we will speak to an attorney for the exonerated men and to an independent historian who helped spark the reopening of the case. as israel holds its election, we will speak with jan egeland calling on israel to end its decades long occupation. he will join us from jerusalem after a trip to gaza. >> gaza is waiting for the next hostility. totally unresolved political situation. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and

peace report. i'm amy goodman. the united nations' world food program is warning of the worsening humanitarian catastrophe after vladimir putin said he would halt passage of vital food and ftilizer exrts from ukraine to the rest of the world. program has indirectly prevented 100 lee people falling from to extreme policy. on monday, putin said russia was not abandoning the deal but would temporarily stop participating in it. >> we're not saying we are ending our participation in this deal. we are saying there suspendi and. amy: russia's suspension from the black sea grain initiative triggered a steep rise in food prices that came after russian warships and the port and russian occupied crimea were attacked drones saturday. as russia's military cues the british navy of low enough the

nord stream pipeline in september, cutting off supplies to russian gas to european markets. the united states and south korea have begun massive war games off the korean peninsula. on monday, the two nations opened operation vigilant storm, a five-day joint drill involving hundreds of warplanes and thousands of troops. north korea condemned the war games as "rehearsal for invasion and proof of hostile policies by washington and seoul." this comes as the u.s. says north korea is preparing to carry out its first nuclear weapons test since 2017. elsewhere in the pacific region, china has slammed plans by the united states to deploy six nuclear-capable b-52 bombers to northern australia, warning the move threatens to spark a new arms race. thiss china's foren minist spespersonhao liji. >> such a move by the u.s. and australia escalates mutual tensions, greatly undermines

regional peace and stability, and may trigger an arms race in the region. china urges parties concerned abandoned the zero-sum mentality and your geopolitical -- nero geopolitical mindedness. amy: during nearly five hours of arguments, the supreme court super majority appeared sympathetic to arguments the admissions process while its equal protection clause in the civil rights act. this comes as at least nine states have already chosen to end consideration of race in university missions. we will have more on the supreme court and the fight over affirmative action after headlines. in california, prosecutors have filed federal charges against the man accused of breaking into house speaker nancy pelosi's home and assaulting her husband paul pelosi with a hammer. investigators say 42-year-old david depape told them he planned to take speaker pelosi hostage and intended to break

her kneecaps in order to see her "wheeled into congress" unless she told the truth about "lies told by the democratic party." depape faces up to 30 years in prison on a federal assault charge and up to 20 additional years for attempted kidnapping. he also faces a slew of state charges, including attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon. san francisco district attorney brooke jenkins spoke monday. >> what we also have learned is the defendant brought to the location of the pelo residence a second hammer as well as zip ties, ropes, and a roll of tape. what is clear based on the evidence that we have thus far is that this house and the speaker herself were specifically targets of the defendant. amy: paul pelosi remains in an intensive care in san francisco after surgeons repaid his fractured skull and serious injuries to his hands and right arm. in arizona, republican gubernatorial candidate kari ke drew ughter fm a

friendly crowd monday after she ked about the attack on paul pelosi. lake w speakinat a camign evt in scottsdale. >> it is not impossible to protect our kids at school. they act like it is. nancy pelosi, well, she has protection -- apparently, her house does not have a lot of protection. [applause] amy: donald trump, jr. has also mocked the attack on paul pelosi. on sunday, he retweeted a photo of a pair of underwear and a hammer captioned, "got my paul pelosi halloween costume ready." former president donald trump has asked the supreme court to block the release of his tax returns ahead of a wednesday deadline to turn them over to the house ways and means committee. trump's request for an emergency order came on the first day of opening arguments in a criminal tax fraud trial in new york supreme court, where the trump organization faces charges of paying top executives millions of dollars worth of off-the-books compensation for 15 years.

president biden has accused oil and gas companies of war profiteering after russia's invasion of ukraine led to high energy prices and surging profits for companies like shell and exxonmobil. on monday, biden said the oil industry should pass profits on to consumers and lower the cost of fuel. if not, he said they may soon face a higher tax rate on windfall profits. pres. biden: give me a break. enough is enough. i am a capitalist. i have no problem with corporations trying to get return on their investment and innovation, but this is not remotely what is happening. all companies making profits are not because of something new or innovative, the profits are a windfall of war. amy: robert weismann, president of public citizen, called a windfall profits tax long overdue but said it should not be made dependent on more oil and gas drilling. weismann added -- "more investment in oil drilling will deepen our dependence on fossil fuels when the worsening climate catastrophe demands we speed the transition away from

fossil fuels." the white house says president joe biden will attend the cop27 u.n. climate summit in sharm el-sheikh, egypt, on november 11 as part of a larger overseas trip that will also take him to cambodia and indonesia. biden's trip comes as human rights defenders continue to urge the release of all political prisoners in egypt ahead of the climate summit. among them is human rights activist alaa abd el-fattah, who has been on hunger strike for over 200 days protesting the horrific conditions he faces in an egyptian jail. his sister and human rights advocate mona seif, who herself -- said on social media her brother is stopping his 100-calorie daily intake and will also start a water strike on sunday, which marks the beginning of cop27. that is november 6 was to on facebook, seif wrote -- "this means if no urgent

intervention happened, alaa will die before the end of #cop27. these are the actions of a man who's had enough after nearly 9 years in arbitrary imprisonment." swedish climate activist greta thunberg is not attending cop27, saying she will not attend a greenwashing summit. back in the united states, border patrol agents on monday fired pepper balls at a group of venezuelan migrants who were leading a protest along the el paso, texas-juárez, mexico border after they were denied entry into the u.s. and blocked from seeking asylum. this is yaneiri hernandez, a venezuelan asylum seeker and protester who witnessed the assault. >> they pulled out guns and stard shooting. things should not be like that. we are not animals. we are human beings who want to

go to the united states to work, not to do bad things. we have spent several days you're sleeping like animals. mexicans are the ones who have helped us with food, clothes, shoes, and blankets. amy: earlier this month, the biden administration started expelling venezuelan asylum seekers to mexico under an expansion of the trump-era pandemic policy title 42, which has blocked at least 2 million people from seeking asylum at the u.s.-mexico border, in violation of international law. in news from britain, police from kent are being urged to investigate a sunday attack on a migrant center in the town of dover as an act of terrorism. the man suspected of throwing at least two petrol bombs at the migrant center was found dead shortly after. he reportedly died of suicide. at least two people were injured after a fire broke out at the center, which is used to process asylum seekers who've taken on the dangerous journey to cross the english channel on makeshift boats in the hopes of refuge in the u.k. after the attack, about 700 asylum seekers were moved from dover to the manston detention

center in kent, which advocates say is catastrophically overcrowded. they've since denounced squalid and inhumane conditions at the facility. meanwhile, immigrant justice and human rights advocates continue to denounce hate speech used by far right british officials against asylum seekers and migrants. on monday, british home secretary suella braverman said england was facing an invasion. >> the british people deserve to know which party is serious about stopping the invasion -- amy: in michigan, the former grand rapids police officer who killed patrick lyoya, a 26-year-old congolese refugee, will face trial on second-degree murder charges. video of lyoya's killing showed former officer christopher schurr, a white man, wrestled lyoya to the ground, kicked and hit him, attempted to electrocute him with a taser, and pinned him on his stomach before pulling his pistol and firing a single round into

lyoya's head at close range. and in brazil, thousands of truckers have blocked roads across brazil in support of jerry after his no defeat to lula and sent his presidential election. bolsonaro has refused to concede defeat, raising fears of political violence. meanwhile there signs of a growing rift within the bolsonaro family. since election, the brazilian first lady anher husband have stopped following each other on instagram. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in new york, joined by democracy now! co-host juan gonzalez in new brunswick, new jersey. hi, juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: the supreme court heard arguments monday in two cases that aim to end race-conscious admissions decisions by colleges

and universities. during nearly five hours o arments, the court's far-right supermajority indicated it is open to ruling that the consideration of race in the admissions process violates the equal protection clause of the constitution and the civil rights act. the two cases involve harvard and the university of north carolina. in both cases, the plaintiffs argued the school's admissions process discriminates against white and asian-american applicants by giving extra preference to black, hispanic, -- latino, and native american applicants. in the harvard case, the plaintiffs argued asian-american applicants faced specific discrimination. this is supreme justice clarence thomas, the only conservative justice of color, questioning the lawyer representing university of north carolina ryan park. >> i did not go to racially diverse schools, but there were educational benefits. i would like you to tell me expressly when the parent since

a kid to college, they don't necessarily send them there to have fun or feel good or anything like that, they send them there to learn physics or chemistry or whatever they are studying. so tell me what the educational benefits are. amy: meanwhile, the supreme court's first black woman justice and newest member ketanji brown jackson recused herself from arguments in the harvard case because of her ties to the university, but she was a prominent voice in the first half of the arguments involving the university of north carolina. she repeatedly asked about the harm in considering race as a factor in admissions to ensure a diverse student body. here she questions attorney patrick strawbridge, who argued on behalf of so-called students for fair admissions, a group founded by the white conservative lawyer ed blum, who has brought multiple cases before the supreme court that challenge race-conscious policy-making as unconstitutional. >> i went to get your reaction

to this hypothetical. the first applicants says, i am from north carolina. my family has been in this area for generations, since before the civil war, and i would like you to know that i will be the fifth generation to graduate from the university of north carolina. i now have that opportunity to do that and given my family background, it is important to me that i get to attend these university. i want to honor my family's legacy by going to this school. the second applicant says, i am from north carolina. i family has been in this area for generations, since before the civil war, but they were slaves and never had a chance to attend this honorable institution. as an african-american, i now have that opportunity and given my family background, it is important to me to attend this university. i want to honor my family's legacy by going to this school.

now as i understand your know race conscious, will these two applicants have a dramatically different opportunity to tell their families story and to have them count. the first applicant would be able to have his family background considered and valued by the institution as part of its consideration whether to admit him while the second one would not be able to because his story is, in many ways, bound up with his race and with the race of his ancestors. so i want to know, based on how your rules likely play out to scenarios like that, why excluding consideration of race in situation in which the applicant is not saying his race has impacted him in a negative way, he just wants to have it honored, just like the other person has their personal background family story honored, why is telling him no not an

equal protection violation? amy: ketanji brown jackson monday. the supreme court's rulings in the two cases are due next year, likely in june. for more, we are joined in washington, d.c., by john yang, president and executive director of asian americans advancing justice, who was one of the speakers for a rally outside the court monday. we are also joined by fatima goss graves, president and ceo of the national women's law center. we welcome you both to democracy now! fatima goss graves, let's begin with you. you were tweeting nonstop yesterday. talk about the significance of the arguments and where you ink the super majority is going right now. >> i have to begin with the fact thiss the fourth time the supreme court has heard what is essentially the same question. and before this year, each time they had come down with true clarity that you could consider race in the context of a

holistic missions pcess. whats different this time is the dramatic shift in the conversation -- composition of the court. that is what we would into the argument worried the three new justices would join the conservative colleagues despite the fact there is clear precedence to rely on and despite the fact there is a brd case to be made as you heard justice ketanji brown jackson made of not only the ongoing discrimination, but the historical discrimination that these programs and part hope to address. juan: could youalk about specifically the harvard case, what happened at the lower court, the district court level and how this case wound its way up to the supreme cou? >> you have to begin with the fact there is a very

conservative lawyer who has brought these cases named ed bluhm will stop and balaam has made arguments that the affirmative action program at harvard inherently discriminates against the asian-american community. it is really important to understand ed blum is not a student and is not an american himself as one of the things the says outside of the court and participating in this case is asian-american students naming the many benefits they receive from participating in diverse education programs. i will tell you along the way what courts have found relief importantly is two things. one, the admissions program considered race is one of many

factors as part of a program that was holistic. it is part of the background and experiences and interests and talents that people put on display when they are to be admitted into schools. but the second thing i think was really important, both in the harvard and unc case, the court along the way reiterated the initial holding from 20 years ago you had to come again -- grutter for the court said consideration of race as one of many factors to create a diverse student body, that schools have a compelling interest in doing so. so if the court rejects that idea, rejects the idea that race actually is one of many factors

that a court considers in its mission program, we will see dramatic differences in admissions processes. we have states that have had that experiment, and we know it has not only reduced the number of students of color who have attended those schools, but it also has dramatically changed their experience there. it is more isolated, more subject to additional discrimination. so we will have affects not only for the students who are in those classes, but for the generations to come for the workforce, for the community around it, for how people's feeling of belonging endured and their connection to their community. juan: i would like to bring in john yang as well president and , executive director of asian americans advancing justice.

john, the prior supreme court cases have focused on how affirmativ actions to the detriment of white students, but now in this set of cases, also the issue of how allegedly affirmative action effects asian americans. why di fill your organization -- wattage your organization get involved and your perspective on whether or not harvard was indeed discriminating against asian americans? >> thank you for that question. let me pick up on something that fatima mentioned, ed blum, when he lost a case in fisher, he explicitly said, i need to find asian-american plaintiffs. what he did that was we knew he would try to use us as a political wedge, to drive us between other mmunities of color. look, if there was actual discrimination against asian americans at harvard or unc, my

organization would probably sue. but when we looked at the evidence, it was clear to us that asian americans were not in just grenade it against. the policies in place at harvard and unc using crèche -- race conscious omissions,llowing race to be considered benefited asian americans. we were involved in the case on the sidef harvard representing asian-american interners so they could tell their stories in court about how affirmative action, how race conscious admissions helped them and how having a diverse campus at harvard really benefited their educational process. amy: i want to go back to the oral arguments u.s. solicitor monday. general argued it has been key to increasing diversity which then shifts representation in the workforce. she gave this example of "gross disparity" in representation. >> the second category i would

point to is the one i have already referenced, demographic. i think that can be relevant, not a set a quota or identify when there are extreme representation of certain groups, can cause people to wonder whether the path to leadership is open. if i could maybe i could give a commonsense example of that but i would hope would resonate with this court, the court is going to hear from 27 advocates and two are women. even the women today are 50% or more of logical graduates. i think would be reasonable for a woman to look at that and wonder, is that a path open to me to be a supreme court advocate? amy: fatima goss graves, you tweeted about this. talk about your response. talk about the people and their stories. >> i thought the solicitor general's argument was very powerful here. it is not a secret the supreme

court bar is one of the least diverse places. very few women, hardly any women of color, argue before the court in any given term. and when we take a similar example of what you might see and experience in some settings, we talked about how you could have some programs where the student of color or a woman of color in particular might be the only student like them. and that isolation has real-time effects, not only because of the leadership questions the solicitor general named, but also it reminds you that you are -- you might have to buy yourself represent your whole race. there are many benefits from diverse institutions, but the real harm of segregation and

isolation that could come from the decision that overturns grut ter, it really is startling. juan: john yang, as mentioned previously, this is the fourth time in 20 years the supreme court has tackled this issue. obviously, there was the university of michigan case. why has affirmative action been so contentious and been brought up to the highest court of the land so often in recent decades? >> at the end of the day, think people are so uncomfortable, certain people are uncomfortable with the fact we're still grappling with race issues in the united states. let's be clear. it has only been about 60 uses the civil rights act past. so for people to suggest we write a post racial society,

that we could somehow be race blind i think is being naïve. there are those that want to bring up these cases because they want to enforce this noon that we should not look at race, that race should not matter. but we know it matters. everyday life, we know it matters. admissions to colleges, certainly the notion that students should be able to talk about their race, their ethnicity, what that meant to their upbringing and the challenges they faced, as well as the legacies they are trying to honor should be important to that process. one of the things we find very disturbing is it race conscious admissions are not allowed in colleges, it would be silencing a large group of students, students of color, in terms of talking about their own experiences. that is what we think these cases matter. that is what we want to drive home to the courts. amy: i want to thank you both for being with us, john yang, president and executive director of asian americans advancing

justice. fatima goss graves, president and ceo of the national women's law center. both speaking to us from washington, d.c. coming up, as israel holds its fifth national election in less than four years, we speak to jan egeland, calling not israel to end its decades long occupation. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "american dream" by willie jones. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. israel is holding its fifth national election today in less than four years. the election could result in former prime minister benjamin netanyahu returning to power even though he is currently on trial on corruption charges. the election comes at a time of an increasingly deadly israeli crackdown on the occupied west bank. the israeli military has been

carrying out near nightly raids. at least 125 palestinians have been killed in the west bank so far this year, including dozens of children. meanwhile, amnesty international is calling on the international criminal court to investigate israel for committing possible war crimes in gaza during its deadly assault in august. we go now to jan egeland, secretary general of the norwegian refugee council. he is joining us from jerusalem. you just returned from gaza. can you talk about the conclusion of your trip and about the occupied territories and west bank in gaza? >> i have been back now to israel, the west bank in gaza where i have traveled for 45 years. i must say it is one of the bleakest visit in part because there was no peace process at all. there was no reconciliation between the two neighbors.

and there's more secular violence against palestinians civilians. there were more of our aid programs that are being demolished. i don't think people outside of this region understand we now have 65 years of occupation. 15 years on the siege of gaza, where chilean of them, half of them young people, and open-air prisons. they cannot leave. they cannot enter at will. they have no real life perspectives. more and more violence. juan: i would ask you about the

demolition you mention. there have been 700 structures demolished by the israeli authorities justin shane wary of this year, in the past 10 months, even though -- authorities since january of this year, in the past 10 months, even though the come donation of israel's attempt to seize more and mor land of the palestinians -- serves as no consequence to continue following that condemnation. >> you're absolutely right. hundreds and hundreds of structures from houses, homes, really, are leveled. many of them swedish, german, --. vulnerable people can embed ones, single mothers, etc. with the occupying force ais they are just doing city

restructuring and so on. what you see is more and more settlements, illegal settlements. which means in violation of international law, transfer your own population to colonize other land in the population that lived there is being transferred. they are met with -- 70 years old. occupied east jerusalem. she has been living in the same house and she was born. -- since she was born. today in her backyard, there is a tent set up by the extremist right-wing politicians.

he is the one who will be elected today under the religious zionism. he brings in secular youth from illegal settlements in the west bank. footage from cameras at these settlers beating up palestinians. fatima, seven years old, she was bleeding. her two sons came. the mafia, the violence [indiscernible] her sons were arrested because they were defending fatima in her own house. the kind of and justice. juan: you mentioned the conditions in gaza. for those who are not familiar with life of the 2 million

inhabitants of gaza, could you talk about some of the worst atrocities occurring there? >> gaza, of course, is the kind of place where there are not israeli soldiers anymore. they were withdrawn. i gaza is under siege. the border is shut and you have to go through an enormous set of barriers, checkpoints controlled by israel to be able to enter. there is one where trucks can come and go. those places are often shut down. that is what we say there is a siege. [indiscernible]

the israeli navy will be resting them. they cannot go by air to this area. they are controlling the air. open-air prisons. gaza, 2 million inhabitants, two thirds of the municipality of my hometown -- amy: jan egeland, this year, 100 20 palestinians have been killed so far, making it the deadliest year since 2015. for the first two weeks of october alone, six palestinian children killed, bringing the death toll of children, those under the age of 18 to 28 this year. can you talk about whether you see this changing with this election that is about to

happen, but most importantly, how this will end, what is the norwegian refugee council lling for? >> it may change to be worse by the election day. -- all parties against -- in favor of illegal settlements, colonization of occupied lands and the displacement of palestinian families. i think it could get worse, but i am not giving up. there has been a group of european ambassadors here in jerusalem. i think in europe there is great support for helping palestinians in their hour of greatest need.

on the palestinian side, the political leadership are split. they are incoherent. there divided between the west bank and help by the palestinian authority and gaza where hamas --on the palestinian side, it is weak. the stronger side is israel. there's one force that can really convince israel to do what is an interest, mainly to make peace with their neighbors, and that is the united states with the united states is nowhere to be seen. amy: when president biden met with the israeli president at the white house last week, during public remarks, neither of them mentioned the palestinians yet israel receives -- is one of the highest recipients of military aid in the world from the united states, receiving billions of dollars.

your message to president biden, jan egeland, what this means? >> my message to the biden administration is perhaps even reinforced by my message to the u.s. congress. if your friends of -- i'm afraid of israel. i have known many israeli prime ministers, i studied at university there. if the united states would be a friend of israel, tell them to not undermine their own security by enraging the palestinian yout by humiliating them, grabbing their land, making it impossible for them to have livelihoods in places like gaza, and killing children five times more frequently than the total

number of fatalities on the israeli side of all ages, military and civilian. you can't make it up the kind of injustice before our eyes here. that is not in israel's interest. juan: jan egeland, last month your organization there norwegian refugee counciwas awarded the hilton humanitarian prize, consider the world's largest annual award for nonprofit. congratulations, first of all. there are more people on the move, refugees, from their home countries across the world than ever before. what do you see as some of the areas that are deservinthe attention when it comes to refugees that are not getting the kind of attention among the media and citizens of the advanced industrial countries? >> indeed, we have broken that

ceiling that i did not believe we would break. i hoped we would never break in our lifetime, which is well over 100 million people now displaced by violence and conflict in the world. you go back 10 years, it was 45 million. now it is 110 million. the ukraine war alone has displaced 14 million. half of them, refugees. half in europe, have basically displaced within ukraine. ukraine is a horrific war. i'm going there on my third visit after this. ukraine is getting a lot of attention. the world is getting a lot of -- they're getting a lot of our assistance and resources. in the shadow of that war, because where i am now in the west bank, it got much worse on

the ho of africa, somalia, where we will have famine -- we have not had a famine now for decades. we will probably have an epic famine. it has gotten worse in syria. yemen, both sides in the congo. so i am nervous, really for the world turning inwards post the u.s. is becoming more inward looking, more nationalistic. and we are in a way, there norwegian council and our colleagues, alone in the confines where there are more people in need than ever. amy: jan egeland, thank you for being with us, secretary general of the norwegian refugee council, speaking to us today from jerusalem. next up, new york ha agreed to pay to settle lawsuits on behalf $36 million of two men who were

wrongly convicted and jailed for decades for assassinating malcolm x. we will speak to an attorney as well as an independent historian who helped break open this case. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "resolution" by john coltrane. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. new york city and new york state have agreed to pay a total of $36 million to settle lawsuits on behalf of two men who were wrongly convicted and jailed for decades for assassinating malcolm x in 1965. last year, a judge tossed out convictions against muhammad aziz and khalil islam after finding serious miscarriages of justice. an investigation by the manhattan d.a.'s office and the innocence project found that prosecutors, the fbi, and the new york police department omitted key evidenceround the

murder of malcolm x. muhammad aziz spent two decades in prison before being released on parole. he was interviewed by abc earlier th year. >> people knew you we one of the men for killing malcolm. where there threats because of that? >> to me? no. the people knew i did not do it. nobody ever thought i did it. just white people. our people never thought i did it. amy: the other man exonerated was khalil islam. he died more than a decade ago in 2009, but his family filed suit on his behalf. the settlement comes two years after netflix released a documentary titled "who killed malcolm x?" which raised new questions about the assassination. is is th tiler. >> we e criminized becse are bla people in erica.

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somebody would take care of him. >> the fbi suld havenown. >> why wouldn't someone want to get to the bottom of this? >> ty shoulde investating that aassination >> i'm not going to stop until i get justice. >> the official count of who killed malcolm x, it is not true. amy: the trailer to the 2020 netflix documentary series, "who killed malcolm x?" that last voice was abdur-rahman muhammad, who joins us now. independent scholar, historian, journalist, writer, and activist. widely regarded as one of the most respected authorities on the life and legacy of malcolm x. we are also joined by david shanis, a civil rights and wrongful conviction lawyer. he represented muhammad aziz and the family of khalil islam. who were exonerated this year and just settle for $36 million. david shanis, how did this negotiation take place? what was it knowledged?

>> thank you for having me. first of all, the first autumn was with the state of new york that happened a few months ago. the recent news was the settlement with the city of new york, which happened just last week. fortunately, and this is the exception not the norm, both of those entities wanted to come to the table immediately. they were both serious about trying to resolve these cases. it was important to resolve them quickly, as you know, this case had a 50 year injustice that lingered and lingered and lingered. so for the government to resolve these cases immediately was essential. juan: david, in terms of the size of the settlement -- how was that reached by new york city? there was always, obviously, the questions about to what degree the new york city police department was aware of the

assassination, the infamous they had an undercover agent who is part of the secret he deil. so what degree did the responsibilities of new york city, not just in terms of the convictions of the men, but the role of the w york city police department and malcolm's death come into play? >> great question. there are a lot of questions about who was responsible for this injustice. the fbi, of course, who hit a mountain of information that would have exonerated these men. but the new york city police department's hands were just as dirty. they had an undercover police officer in the ballroom who witnessed the assassination could have corroborated. the trial testimony of one who tried to exonerate these men and said they have nothing to do with it, i don't know these men. but the nypd sat on that information for decades. amy: i want to go to another

clip to introduce our next guest om the dumentary "whkilled lcolm x? >> inhe960's, t bigge counterintellince operion anthe fbi's histy. >> blackeople evewhere toy arset upith e hyprisy. isomethinis not de, i'm afraidou wl have a raal explosn. a raal exploon is me dead than antomic explosion. >> the direcr of the f was dehly raid of soone like malcolx. >> malco iseing surilled, llowed, s phone is tapd. >> iyou lo at the investigatnit is wh he becomes public fure f the ti of islam th theuru startsoreo --

> you em to beissatisfd withverythin >> i'm lling you the neg wil takethe stepnecessy to fend theelves. s >> cou it haveeen e fbi formantsere actily invoed in malco' murde almostertainlyo. >> sommembers the nion of lam became tls, they were the puppets. puppeteers in charge of that whole situation. amy: and the next clip, our guest abdur-rahman muhammad describes footage of the scene outside the audubon ballroom after t 1965 asssination of malcm x. >> t coron red theause of dea to t shotg pellet it wasothe -- e causof

deatwas ruleto be the saweoff shgun. >> theres archililm of t scene tside th ballroo rig after essasnation. engag in brutal war- bc th scule betwe the poce a the crowd that is trngo be dn, jus >> thenly assaination to confess d there is n stanng at thedge of e crd whlooks a t like willm brennan, who according to some, fired the stshat killed malcolm. he is feigning like he is part of the brawl. in that kindf misdirection,e step bacand you see him lk ross. calmly, osing his coat, and he

just walksway. that is how he got away. william bradley ith man whpulledut that shotgun and took the life malcolm x, then i can prove it, i want to confront him face--face. amy: that is abdur-rahman muhammad, independent scholar, historian, journalist, writer, and activist. he is joining us right now. $36 million has been awarded to these two men who served decades ale, and khalil islam, whowho is died over 10 years ago, was never vindicated in his lifetime to the public. and then you are describing who in fact did kill malcolm x. talk about your response to what has now taken place and are

the people involved, are any still alive? >> to my knowledge, no, they are all deceased. amy: including j edgar hoover. >> including j edgar hoover. i tend to believe that is why we have been able to get this far in terms of whatever kind of justice we have been able to attain is because it is so far along in the history that most of these personalities are long since deceased. juan: abdur-rahman muhammad, clearly, the head of the nation of islam is still around and he famously i think it was in 2000 and an interview claimed he did not order the assassination of malcolm x admitted he created the climate in which the assassination took place. i am wondering your sense of to

what degree the actual perpetrators are intellectual authors of this crime were ever held to justice? >> let me set the record straight here. he did not -- he did quite a bit more than that. he was at the mosque that we documented was the epicenter of the murder plot against malcolm x. he preached there that afternoon, the very afternoon that malcolm was delivering her was sa to deliver his talk at the audubon ballroom. what he knows and what we can prove that he knows, you know, those are two different things. but he diduite bit morthan create the climate. he w, as we say, he was in the next of the plot. amy: were you able to confront him, abdur-rahman muhammad?

>> are producers reached out to him and he declined to participate in their project in any way. viscerally so. amy: what do you think is most important for the world to understand right now? because clearly, malcolm x was a world leader. he was a human rights leader. and what took place the role of the fbi in this. >> we should understand that malcolm's legacy looms larger today than it did even in his own lifetime. part of the reason why it has taken so much time to attain some measure of justice in this case is because at the time of his assassination, the general public essentially took the position of the government. his own people were after him

anthey finally got him. case closed. there weren't too many peoe identifying with his wrongly accused brothers. he was not treated in the same way as dr. king was and he was not accorded t sameespe. a claim, i should say, that dr. king was able to garner. so his case just faded tblack but now his star looms large on thinternatioltage and he is rarded as an icon and hero and a great revolutionary. so for that reason, we learned that in the passage of time, the true measure of a man is revealed. juan: we only have about a minute left, but this $36 million settlement comes on top of $20 million that new york state agreed to pay.

we can see the fbi, the federal government, new york city police, but why -- what was the culpability of the state in this? >> go ahead, dave. >> just to clarify that, the total between the city and state is $36 million. $26 million from the city and $10 million from the state that came previously. the reason the state paid is because new york state is one of a few states and the country that has a law that compensates people who are wrongfully convicted and imprisoned. that is, germ movement my partners at the innocence project and others to get similar laws passed in the rest of the country. amy: we want to thank you both for being with us. david shanis, civil rights and wrongful conviction lawyer who represented muhammad aziz and the family of khalil islam. abdur-rahman muhammad thank you toabdur-rahman muhammad, independent scholar, jealous,

activist who helped make open this case, did not let it go for decades. that does it for our show. democracy now! is currently accepting applications for a video news production fellowship and a people and culture manager. learn more and apply at democracynow.org. [captioning made possible by ço

hello and welcome to nhk "newsline." i'm catherine kobayashi in new york. world leaders are scrambling to save an agreement that would deliver food to those who need it most. they're urging russian president vladimir putin to resume grain shipments out of ports on the black sea. the russians say ukrainian forces broke the terms of the deal by sending