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tv   France 24  LINKTV  November 3, 2022 5:30am-6:00am PDT

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addressed. >> these are our top stories. benjamin netanyahu is set to return to power with a slim majority. he is israel's longest-serving prime minister. the current prime minister says he will wait for the final results. >> we will carry on for the next two days until the last envelope has been open. we will have to wait with patience even if we do not have patience, for the final results to come in. i have come in this evening to
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thank you from the bottom of my heart. we have achieved an unbelievable result. close to one million israeli citizens voted. >> results outgoing president has spoken publicly since the first time since his election defeat on sunday. he did not appear to concede, but said he would follow the constitution. truck drivers have staged protests. the supreme court has ordered police to clear the roads. in denmark, the prime minister's social democrats have won the most seats in tuesday's election. they are said to retain majority in parliament. it comes as energy prices soar and danes face the highest cost of living in more than 40 years. india's prime minister has visited the site of a bridge collapsed that killed more than 140 people in his home state. he met survivors who are in hospital.
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the man accused of attacking the husband of nancy pelosi has pleaded not guilty. he was charged with attempting to murder paul pelosi by beating him with a hammer. the 82-year-old is recovering from surgery. twitter's new owner has hinted at charging users a fee for having a verified account. elon musk bought twitter for $44 billion, says a new subscription service could cost eight dollars a month. those are your headlines. will be back with mourners after inside story. -- more news after inside story. ♪ >> the democratic republic of
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congo has expelled the rwandan ambassador, accused of supporting rebels in the east. fighting has displaced thousands of people, so why is it difficult to end the conflict? is it time for a new approach? this is inside story. ♪ hello and welcome to the program. relations between the democratic republic of congo and rwanda have hit a new low. the congolese government has expelled the rwandan ambassador, long accused him of supporting a rebel group in a north province in the east. fighting between rebels and congolese army has intensified with fighters capturing two towns last week. the united nations has urged, 23 to disarm unconditionally.
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a u.n. report found evidence of rwanda's military supporting the rebels, but the regatta -- the government has denied the accusations. the conflict has distaste -- displaced 40,000 people in one week. >> it was 1:00 in the morning when we heard gunshots, we fled because the situation was so bad. >> the fighters were raining bullets on our village. we had to escape to stay alive. >> we want to the authorities to find us somewhere to live. we have nothing to eat. here we are with the children on the road. >> the conflict has triggered protests in an eastern city. people denounce the president of rwanda and uganda which is also accused of supporting rebels, and some called for russia's help saying years of western intervention have failed.
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>> we need putin here because we are disappointed with the united states. for 60 years, we have been with the u.s.. >> we are suffering more. we have one country that supports them, rwanda. >> the march 23 movement is known as the congolese revolutionary army, a rebel group based in the eastern areas of the democratic republic of congo. they say the aim is to fight enemy groups who fled rwanda after the 1994 genocide. the rebels merged with the congolese army after a 2009
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peace deal, but in 2012, they said the agreement has not been upheld and broke away. more than 120 rebel groups operate in the region. let's bring in our guests. in the rwandan capital, a lawyer in political analyst. in london, the president of the congolese exiled government, and in the netherlands, a researcher on conflict, peace and justice in the african great lakes region. warm welcome to my guests. can i confess to you in the netherlands, to get a neutral view, what we have seen with demonstrations against rwanda by people in the congolese city, why are demonstrations different? >> i'm not quite sure.
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you have anti-rwanda sentiments. we had some in early june. for the last couple of years, we had strong demonstrations. all of those were linked to armed activities, we have activities opposing m23 with allegations over wanda supporting m23. in 2009, 2012. these are not very different. i look at this as another horrific cycle of violence with different consequences. >> let's go to london. if it is such another cycle of violence, how bad is the situation in the east of congo
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to the people you are talking to right now? >> thank you so much. this is a necessary question. it's a difficult time for us congolese people. we welcome her wanda -- rwanda, and are willing to go back to find a peaceful place to stay. we welcome the generation of them. what is happening now, the rwanda's government is using the british army, using those people to kill citizens in congo. speaking now, more than 40,000 people have been displaced from their house, they're going to neighbor countries. young people can't go to school. we see criminal movements, small groups of people calling themselves m23, and the rwanda
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government fully supports the army. they have been killing ordinary congolese people. i believe british people and the people around the globe know the rwanda is using power given by british for them to be member of the commonwealth to kill civilians, and -- >> let me stop you there in the lower -- allow our guest to common. you have heard what our guest in london has said, this is inspired and supported by the british. how do you respond? >> that is speculation. this type of rhetoric is what is fueling demonstrations that you mentioned earlier. also, when this gentleman says
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they're welcoming rwandan refugees, he is being disingenuous. m23 are not rwandans. they congolese. they live on this land for more than four centuries. they are older than congo itself as a country. these groups are not rwandans. they may speak rwandan, they may look like rwandans, but when it was divided, they found themselves as part othe congolese country. they are not rwandans. they speak in rwandan, they are congolese. this is saying we welcome refugees, they were there as early as any indigenous group in that eastern part of the doc. they are fighting today because the community has struggled to
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be accepted by the likes of my colleague who is -- that is why families have led and live in refugee camps, and rwanda, and uganda, for three decades. three decades for demanding to come home. fight so they can compel the government to negotiate and allow communities to return home. >> i'm going to go back to felix. obviously, the conversation and what is going on is multilayered. it's about ethnicity, geography. language, culture. certainly in this part of the world. we will talk about that a little bit later in the program. let me bring it up to speed in terms of the 2009 peace deal. it failed in 2012. what do you think the underlying issues there as to why the
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groups could find the peace deal, but then it all fell apart? why? >> if i was to pick one word in terms of the cycle of violence and conflict repeating, i would not talk about one word being enforcement. you have dialogue between the government and armed groups, many armed groups. last week, the u.n. issued a report in provinces, it's important to keep that in mind. m23 was among the lowers. according to that report, which
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is not justify anything, but is an important point to keep in mind. march 23 talks about the messick issues. -- domestic issues. the government has had meetings. their arguments made, but enforcing them, partially or never at all. partly political will. the troubles in congo for any government bears responsibility to protect citizens. the issues of cooperation around the global community, international community, regional countries, depending on the politics of the moment, there have always been witnesses
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in enforcing any given arguments. because of that, there tends to be renewed violence, belligerency, diverse armed groups. many of the issues have remained of the last three decades. >> obviously, the drc upon stress government order the rwandan ambassador to leave. rwanda is stated as saying they regret it. do they really regret it? is there any room for maneuver in terms of talking, or our reports authored by the u.n. a sticking point in any starting point for conversation? >> it's a crucial point. the people in the east of my country have been victim of atrocities. it's a shame that somebody tried to manipulate a story in international media by fabricating things that are not
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correct. when congo had independence, there were 352 tribes organized. rwanda has been a stable country. you cannot deny that. we have a group over one these who do not want to go back. people who call themselves liberation -- they are not willing to go back. we have them in the country. it's a story where rwanda has been manipulating the international community. it's a very -- [indiscernible] very serious allegation. this is al jazeera. millions of people are listening. >> you have your point of view, so does our guest in london.
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let me bring in -- let's bring in our rwandan guests. >> do not interrupt me. it's a serious comment on international television about misleading people, you do not have evidence of that. you have to go back to the history. we welcome rwandans as refugees. they have been a stable nation for years. you are getting yourself. -- kidding yourself. in congo, we welcome you. we accepted you. that is a safe haven. you are using this as an excuse. you have the support from the united kingdom. the u.k. has been in the center for providing support. you are using this -- >> you mentioned the british angle before. let's bring in our guest.
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you have had enough of a say for a moment. want to bring in our guest to respond. rwanda husband is ingenuous. -- rwanda has been disingenuous. the army tweeted he has held discussions. he wants to discuss the ongoing rise intentions, the escalating tensions he says. what should we read into the conversation between the secretary-general and the president? >> as you can see, my colleague is trying to sanitize fdl r. it's true they are a group in congo, we have been pointing out that the drc government and army is working alongside this group, as you can see from my colleague, they believe this is a legitimate group.
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this group is on the u.n. list as a terror organization, everyone's list. some are being tried in international courts. this is a group of people, remnants of people who committed genocide in rwanda. they fled to drc, and continue to attack communities. for my colleague's statement, they are committed to working with them. this is the primary quarrel rwanda has with the drc. using the support of the drc -- rwanda keeps asking the drc to stop collaborating with fdlr as a genocidal organization. >> our guest in london -- >> you are telling congo what to do. you have the audacity to say this. that's a very serious
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allegation. people who are seeking protection in our country. you speak as an international community, to our lawyer. you have the density in the international community to devalue another nation by imposing what you want them to do. that is a serious allegation. this people do not want to go back to your country because you are targeting them, killing them. rwanda has a track record of killing those people. we welcome you. we accepted you. how many years congolese people have to be killed because we are helping you? you have been given enough support from the united kingdom and commonwealth. the value of the commonwealth is not to have countries killing other people, we are going british people to listen to this. they are supporting the war criminal country, including yourself.
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you do not see the value of protecting. congolese people deserve a better life. you cannot use these excuses to kill congolese. you fabricated m23. >> let me bring in felix. >> you have a track record. >> obviously, you are hearing both sides, felix, it's very polarized. each side, whether they are pro-congo or provo on the -- probe rwanda have their own point of view. the cycle of violence that the u.n. has tried to mediate. how difficult is the issue now if the international community are not coming to the aid of the civilians that are actually the victims in all of this on those border areas? >> it is very difficult. keep in mind, it's difficult --
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discussions about security. keep in mind, the less conversation -- less conversation again is that you and presence in the drc. you have one of the biggest presences, globally speaking in eastern drc. that has been very difficult to find a solution because the issues are multilayered, and many require some kind of large investment by diverse actors at different layers. -- levels. there is a need for different things. keep in mind, we are talking about the security in the north, but that part of the country -- lease violations by several dozens of armed groups which are
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still very much active. all of those armed groups, including m23 should be a priority for every actor and partners. in rwanda, there has been a roadmap for overseas and military solutions. all of those should be taken seriously, pertaining to solutions. you never have a solution when there is one single issue. there issues that have been around for the last 30 plus years. that needs to be addressed at the local level. also, there are regional issues. keep in mind, as we are speaking there are forces cooperating with the congolese government and forces operating. all of this is a factor you need
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to keep in mind in looking at the solution. bringing back lasting peace. >> there are many elements and many issues. let's talk about the demonstrations we have seen over the weekend. the approach to international mediation. let's take the conversation in a different direction. as you say, you are not happy with the british. french have left in parts of molly and chad because of relationships with sub-saharan africa. we saw in demonstrations over the weekend, the call for russia to get involved by some members of the public on the street. if you're not happy with western powers and the u.n., is there a role for russia? >> that is not what i think. people in the congo have no
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choice. you have to finish this more. if they stop promoting rwanda, and the british stop supporting rwanda, giving them arms and supporting them as a member of the commonwealth, that would be the end of the war. we do 90 russia. -- we do not need russia. one million people have been killed because they are supporting rwanda. i'm very sorry. we have to recognize this. rwanda has been in the center of killing congolese and supporting m23. there is evidence for that. if he never came across that, i would be more than happy to send that. we have to make it clear, there is a future strategy for peace, our president has tried his best
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to find a peaceful way forward for this war. it has never been a consideration because rwanda is still using british influence. >> let me give the final word -- you have had your say. please. it's a very heated subject. i want to ask you whether international mediation is required to try and solve the problems between the two countries, because obviously, they need to start talking to each other, regardless of what is going on. it is obvious he very heated. it's displacing thousands of people in the region. the two governments need to talk to each other, don't they, face-to-face? >> no country, a problem between two countries or within
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countries is not solved by foreign interference. we have a menace to pull made of several -- minutes to pull made of several countries, they have not solved the problem. britain, france, u.n.. the problems of the drc and solutions within the drc. the demands are simple. m23 means march 23, 2009. it says all congolese speaking rwanda in refugee camps must come home peacefully. all soldiers of m23 must mobilize and be integrated into the congolese army. the rwandan speaking communities that are actually congolese citizens must be accepted and
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not discriminated against. there has been a lot of political movements. the drc is scapegoating rwanda, scapegoating the u.k. and everyone. remember. what my colleague was trying to say is the following. when you see reports of human rights violations, m23 is the least violent. the most violent group today is the congolese army, followed by fdlr made of genocide perpetrators that are working hand-in-hand with the congolese army. if the congolese government except you can speak in rwanda, look rwanda, and be congolese because when the country was divided, it was arbitrarily without considering where people come from, and until the drc understands that, there will be conflict.
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if they scapegoat rwanda in the u.k. and u.s., u.n., so on -- >> we have to leave it. this is a conversation that is going to go on for a very long time. we cannot solve it in half an hour. i appreciate all of my guests for joining us. thank you. thank you as well. you can see the program again anytime by visiting our website, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. facebook page -- facebook.com/insidestory. for me and the entire team, thank you very much for your time and company. ♪
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robert f. kennedy: racial injustice and poverty, ignorancand concn foworld peace d chicaganlos angeles, as during thatime,and the i spokto goverr barnett probably 25 times. yoasked for e fact - [announcer]: major funding for reel south was provided by: etv endowment, the national endowment for the arts, center for asian-american media,

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