11/10/22 11/10/22 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >>, the press and the pundits are predicting joint red wave, it did not happen. democrats have a strong night. with the best midterm for governor since 1986. amy: the balance of power in

congress is still up for grabs. if republicans do take control of the house, it may be because of new york state where republicans have flipped four house seats. congressmember alexandria ocasio-cortez is calling for the head of the new york state democratic committee to resign. we will get the latest. then we look at what the midterms mean for the movement to reform the criminal justice system. >> among the many surprises coming out of election on november 8 were progressive ossicular victories across the couny showing despite predictions, movement -- major victories for won and a red and purple states, including iva, minneapolis, and texas. amy: and the supreme court heard oral argument wednesday in a case involving the new child welfare act, which was created to prevent family separation in native communities.

the law is overturned, it could have seismic implications for indigenous nations in the united states. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the battle for control of the u.s. congress hangs in the balance two days after midterm elections, when predictions of a red wave of republican victories failed to materialize. three undetermined races will determine whether democrats or republicans hold power in the senate. in arizona incumbent democratic , senator astronaut mark kelly has a significant lead over republican black masters, with nearly a third of ballots yet to be counted. in nevada, trump-supporting republican adam laxalt is leading incumbent democratic senator catherine cortez masto by fewer than 20,000 votes.

most of the 20% of the vote yet -- ballots yet to be counted are mail-in votes from urban areas likely to favor cortez masto. in georgia, newly re-elected republican secretary of state brad raffensperger announced plans for a december 6 runoff in georgia's senate race. incumbent senator rafael warnock received about 30,000 more votes than his republican rival former nfl star herschel walker. but warnock fell just shy of the 50% mark needed to avoid a runoff. in wisconsin, lieutenant governor and democrat mandela barnes has conceded to incumbent senator ron johnson in a closely-fought contest. senator johnson is a climate denier who has downplayed the january 6 capitol riot. just ahead of the insurrection, he and his staff tried to deliver lists of fake electors

to vice president mike pence. here in new york, congressmember sean patrick maloney has conceded to republican state assembly member mike lawler in the race for the newly redrawn 17th congressional district. maloney served as chair of the democratic congressional campaign committee, making it his responsibility to protect democrats' majority in the house. we will talk more about what happened in new york state after the headlines. on wednesday, house republican leader kevin mccarthy declared his candidacy for speaker of the house even though republicans significantly underperformed in the midterms and they have yet to clinch house majority. mccarthy's main rival for house speaker, louisiana congressmember steve scalise, said he would instead run to become republican majority leader. more than 210 republicans who denied the results of the 2020 election or cast doubt on joe

biden's presidential victory won races for congress, governor, secretary of state, or attorney general. one top election denier is arizona gubernatorial candidate kari lake who has refused to say if she would accept defeat at the polls. with 70% of votes counted, democrat katie hobbs holds a razor-thin lead over kari lake. in michigan, where democratic governor gretchen whitmer easily won re-election tuesday, democrats have won back full control of the legislature for the first time since 1983. democrats also won complete control of both legislative chambers and the governor's office in maryland, massachusetts, and minnesota. nebraska voters have approved a ballot measure to incrementally raise the state's minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2026.

in south dakota, voters have approved a ballot measure to expand the state's medicaid program under the affordable care act. the move to bring health insurance to an estimated 45,000 low-income people was opposed by south dakota republicans including governor kristi noem. on wednesday, president joe biden called election day a good day for democracy. he also said he intends to announce early next year whether he will run for a second term as president in 2024. pres. biden: this is a family decision. i think everyone wants me to run but we will have discussions about it. don't feel any hurry one way another to make that judgment , today, tomorrow, whenever. no matter what a predecessor does. amy: iran's parliament has voted overwhelmingly in favor of the death penalty for protesters arrested at anti-government demonstrations.

the vote follows reports of widespread human rights abuses directed at an estimated 15,000 protesters held in iranian jails. one female protester in her 20's told the bbc she witnessed physical and psychological torture, saying she could hear the sound of screams as prison guards beat young men in a cell next to hers. massive protests erupted across iran in september after the death of a 22-year-old kurdish woman in police custody. mahsa amini had been arrested for allegedly wearing her hijab improperly. on wednesday, one of iran's best-known actors taraneh alidoosti posted an image of herself on social media without a hijab in violation of iranian law which requires women to cover their hair. she held a sign reading, "woman, life, freedom" in kurdish. russian military leaders say they've ordered troops to

withdraw from the city of kherson, the lone regional capital seized by russia after its invasion in february. on wednesday, state media broadcast a televised briefing between russia's defense minister and the commander of russian forces in ukraine sergei surovikin. >> having come principally assessed the situation, i propose we take up defensive positions along the left bank of th river. i understand this is a difficult decision and the same time we will say, most important, the lives of our troops anthe overall combat effectiveness of the troops. amy: the loss of kherson would be the latest in a series of battlefield defeats for russia as ukrainian forces continue to claw back territory. but officials in kyiv cautioned russia could be trying to lure ukrainian forces into a trap. in room moscow, from unofficial

say russia may -- forces say russia may withdraw from a turkish and u.n.-brokered deal that has allowed for limited exports of fertilizers and grain from ukraine's black sea ports. on wednesday, a foreign ministry spokesperson said russia might allow the deal to expire on november 19 unless western powers lift sanctions on russian agricultural exports. russia has faced international condemnation for exacerbating a global food crisis at a time when the u.n. warns a record 345 million people fe acute food insecurity. hurricane nicole made landfall on florida's east coast early this morning before weakening to a tropical storm. nicole cut power to at least 82,000 homes and businesses and brought about coastal flooding, strong winds, and storm surges. it's only the fourth ever recorded november hurricane to hit the mainland united states. global heating is creating far-reaching and worseng crises in every part of the u.s.

according to a draft of a major upcoming report by the national climate assessment. the report finds the united states has warmed 68% faster thanarth as a whole over the past half century. a drastic and urgent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions is the only way to slow down the climate-driven disasters from drought, excessive heat, and extreme weather events. the report also says the worsening climate catastrophe will drive more forced migration, create public health crises and incree morbidity and mortaly, and further threateniodiversity. the authors note that if the world can reach zero or net zero emissions, warming will stop, curbing some of the worst effects of climate change. the u.s. would need to reduce issions by over 6% every year to meet the biden administration's goal of net-zero by 2050. in news from the u.n. climate conference in sharm el-sheikh, the group global witness found

the number of delegates linked to the fossil fuel industry is 25% higher than at last year's cop meeting. that's more than 600 people, higher than the combined number of delegates from the 10 countries most impacted by the climate crisis. on wednesday, activists staged a number of protests at cop27. youth activist lucky abeng of the pan african climate justice alliance demanded rich counties pay poor nations for loss and damage caused by climate disasters, like recent floods in nigeria that killed more than 600 people while displacing over a million. >> want us to take the agenda very servers. we had come for less than 4% of the global greenhouse emissions. amy: british-egyptian political

prisoner alaa abdel fattah is now on the fifth straight day of a mplete hger and water strike as his family and supporters continue to press for his release and proof hes stilalive. earlier today, prison officers informed the family "medical intervention was taken," though no further details about his condition are known. this is his mother professor leila soueif speaking wednesday from outside the jail where alaa has been held come about 60 miles north of cairo. . >> up until yesterday, a good believe he was fine -- i could believe he was fe. but noafter four days without any intake. political price of his death will be hi for the regime and he has already achieved tt with a scandal that has happened. amy: we have this report, a tweet from his sister mona who

has said -- let's see if i can find it. your lawyer has been granted permission to visit alaa and imprisoned, but she wrote "unbelievable. at the prison they're trying to prevent them from the visit." meanwhile, a complaint has been filed against alaa's sister sanaa soueif, accusing her of conspiring with foreign agencies and "spreading false news." the case has not yet been accepted by the public precutor, but it puts sanaa at ri of detentn while she is in egypt for cop27. she has already served more than three years in an egyptian prison. in britain, activists with just stop oil brought parts of the nation's busiest highway to a standstill for a fourth straight day to demand the u.k. government stop all new oil and gas projects. protesters climbed on highway sign overpasses, forcing police

to shut down traffic. dozens were arrested, including youth activist louise harris. >> thousands of the people will in the u.k. died because of the climate crisis, the heat. [indiscernible] this is an act of self-defense. we need you to join us in order for this to work. her men to take action and listen. -- for our government to take action and listen. amy: and elsewhere in the u.k., police arrested a 23-year-old activist for pelting eggs at king charles and camilla during a visit to york to protest the destruction wrought by the british monarchy.

none of the eggs hit the royal pair. the young activist continued to protest as police restrained him on the ground. >> [indiscernible] amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman, joined by my democracy now! co-host nermeen shaikh. hi, nermeen. nermeen: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: the balance of power in congress remains in play two days after the midterm elections. control of the u.s. senate rests in the hands of three states -- nevada, arizona, and georgia. if the democrats win two of the states, they will keep control of the senate.

meanwhile, republicans have not yet won enough house seats to regain the majority. there are still over 30 house races not yet decided. on wednesday, president biden held a news conference at the white house about the midterm results. pres. biden: while the press in the pundits are protecting a giant red wave, it did not have been posted democrats had a strong night. we lost fewer seats in the house of representatives than any democratic president first midterm election in the last four years and with the best midterm for governors since 1986. amy: many analysts say if democrats lose control of the house, it may largely be because of new york state where republicans have flipped four congressional seats. democratic congressmember sean patrick maloney suffered one of the most shocking losses tuesday. maloney is the chair of the powerful democratic congressional campaign committee. according to the cook political report, maloney is the first sitting house campaign committee

chair to lose a race in 30 years. meanwhile, in the new york governor's race, democrat kathy hochul defeated republican-backed lee zeldin but by just over five percentage points. two years ago, joe biden beat donald trump in new york by 22 percentage points. on wednesday, new york congressmember alexandria ocasio-cortez called for the resignation of jay jacobs, the chair of the new york state democratic committee. to look more at happened in new york and what it could mean for the country, we are joined by two guests. sochie nnaemeka and zohran mamdani. zohran mamdani, i went to begin with you. if you can help to explain what took place in new york. it wasn't just random that

democrats lost four major house seats, which could determine the balance of the house of representatives. if you can talk about why alexandria ocasio-cortez, yourself as well, have demanded the resignation of the head of the democratic party of new york and what this has to do with the ballot initiative and redistricting in new york. one of the most byzantine states for rules around elections and voting. >> i think on tuesday what we saw was an illustration of how broken our state party machinery is and that is across the entirety of the state. last november, we had a ballot measure which if passed would have ensured we could've had a more favorable map for democratic congressional races going into this election. and that ballot measure was opposed by the state republican to the tune of $3 million,

entire statewide tour. meanwhile, the democratic party headed by jay jacobs spent zero dollars on supporting that ballot measure. as is no surprise because the disparity in spending and effort, that ballot measure lost. the loss of that measure was then used as a pretext in the court cases that occurred afterwards to ensure we had state drawn maps, maps which were far more favorable to republicans and maybe part of the reason we do not hold the house. so all of that from november until this moment right here has illustrated our state party simply is not up to the job come the state party chairman jay jacobs is not the man to lead it or the person, rather, he is instead are more focused on defeating the left then defeating the right. he spent $7,500 to beat one of my colleagues who was running for reelection in a primary, which is $7,500 more than he ever spent on passing that

referendum which could have ensured joe biden would have had control over the entirety of congress to pass a democratic agenda over the next two years. nermeen: could you explain when you say what happened last november with the ballot measure, explain why it is so important, redistricting and state drawn maps. >> every 10 years the senses, the state has to redistrict all of the districts and at local to congressional level. there was a ballot measure that stated if the independent redistricting commission, commission that have been crated by governor, which had the same number of democrats and republicans, if that commission could not agree on a set of maps, then a civil majority of the legislature would suffice in creating new maps. as we know when you create a commission with the same number of democrats and republicans, with the stakes as high as redistricting, there is a low likelihood of them agreeing on any one set of maps.

we knew it was going to come to the legislature. if this referendum had been passed, it would have ensured the legislature had a clear mandate from new yorkers to redraw those maps. the lead -- the referendum did not pass in the legislature drew its own maps and then the republicans sued those maps in court in the highest court, the judges specifically appointed by andrew cuomo, sided with republicans and used this referendum as part of the justification for why those new maps had to be thrown out. as a consequence, they ordered a special master, a total of an individual who drew new maps for the state of new york, to draw these maps and many of these it'd of being far more favorable to republicans than the ones that would have been passed have we passed that referendum. amy: then you have people like carolyn maloney, these congressional stalwarts, the og, old guard, versus jerrold nadler. they had been colleagues for decades in the house.

i want to go to aoc's tweet. "new york state dem party leadership, which was gutted under cuomo, stuffed with lobbyists, works to boost gop, and failed to pass a basic state ballot measure to protect new york redistricting, must be accountable. i called for jay jacob's resignation a year ago and i still hold that position. let's put this question to sochie nnaemeka, the director of the new york working families party. that is a line on the ballot. you could vote for, for example, if you wanted to vote for governor hochul again, could vote on the democratic nine or you could vote for her on the working families line. sochie nnaemeka, if you can address what aoc is pointing to, the legacy of andrew cuomo and big money, donors, and lobbyists who still control the democratic party of new york.

>> good morning. series of failures and failed strategies at the state level the result in an election that does not have to be disclosed. the civil member talks about the origin story of cuomo's failed districting -- lead to low participation general election. [indiscernible] ultimately, the top of the ticket is not performing at a high level, it is impossible at the down ballot level. republicans taking seats across long island, upstate new york.

there a failed strategy. it is a crisis of democracy. unless you are engaging, recruiting, actually speaking to young voters, voters of color, to voters in the city, you are leaving it to the consultants of the airves. that is a field strategy and how the democratic party really has to rethink kind of party they want to lead. nermeen: what about the victory for the working family party outside of nework state? >> we did see in many states looking at pennsylvania, summer lee who held onto her seat despite the influx, the negative ads, the intense dark money that was spent against her. we saw that money also be used in the primary. you see that a new york state as a reference to the collusion between establishment democts and dark money to sh out progssives and the general

election -- going to win in illinois races. there is an energy across the united states. unfortunately, in new york state, democrats do not follow the same playbook that talk about big initiatives, pardons of fences on marijuana, student debt initiatives. we need big, bold ids. we just of this relentls republican fear mongering. amy: we will be joined by delia ramirez, the congressman-elect from illinois. she is the first latina congresswoman to represent illinois. on that issue of the working party line, how many more votes did you get this time and what does that mean? so what if you vote for a democrat on the democratic party

line or on the working families line? what kind of power does that give you? >> progressives across the state really stepped up to defeat the far right. we knew what was on the line. we knew the state of extremists ke lee zeldin. what we are telling voters is you can work to defeat the far right -- from the visn of new york state you want. [indiscernible] telling workers, particular and people, immigrants, those who the democratic already are maybe not chasing their votes, if you want universal health care in new york, and oversoul childcare, if you believe we should make the wealthy pay their fair share with ao in texas, vote on the working family parties line. alexandria ocasio-cortez saying that that democrats need working people to deliver on those big initiatives. otherwise the democratic already is beholden to corporate

interests, to big donors, to consultants. and we have to use our party line to deliver that mandate. we had over 280,000 or so new yorkers who chose to vote on the working families line to deliver that clear message that is basically the margin of difference between kathy hochul and lee zeldin in this election. we know -- we expect our partners to deliver a real working peoples's agenda, january. nermeen: can you talk about what you think is likely to happen? and also the base of support for jay jacobs who you come as we mentioned, congressmember alexandria ocasio-cortez are calling to resign. >> to be clear, the constituency of calls for resignation has

grown to the extent a number of my colleagues have been calling for that for many months and some have joined recently, thinking of state senators and assembly members. the list goes on and on. so many people have seen in terms of division that we have the democratic party, a party that reflects the state it is supposed to lead, there is this disconnect. the disconnect oils down to the leadership of one person, jay jacobs, who last year compared the democratic nominee for the buffalo mayors race to the head of a kkk. and faced no consequences in doing so, continue to keep his position. what yesterday has shown us is what sochie was saying. we can only get so far telling people vote to defeat lee zeldin. we need to have an affirmative

vision. the working families party has laid out with that vision could look like another democratic party needs to do so as well. when i think about that company particularly about two issues. housing and the climate crisis. more than 75% of new yorkers across the state are concerned about rising rent and more than 67% believe we need to pass good cause eviction as a means by which to keep those rents under control. two days ago when i was at the polls, i was talking about housing because in my neighborhood, the red has skyrocketed. in manhattan, the median rent is over $4000. an increase from 30% from last year to this year. these are the issues the state needs to deliver on when we get back to albany in january. we need to pass the housing act voucher program because then we could have done something we can point to would we conduct of voters and say, we see the rising costs in your life and we are taking action on doing so.

the second issue is the climate crisis. more than 60% of new yorkers on tuesday voted for the environmental bond act. 68% voted for the state to spend more than $4.2 billion on remedying the causes of climate change on a wide variety of issues. that shows there is a constituency broader that either party that once the state to take action on the climate crisis. when we get back to alden he, we have to heed that call, pass the bill renewable energy act, to ensure we have it cleaner energy plan taking advantage of the reflation -- inflation reduction act that was passed recently. amy: ♪♪ [music break] , thank you for being with us new york state assembly member. ,and sochie nnaemeka, director of the new york working families party. coming up, we look at what the midterms mean for the movement to reform the colonel justice system. a lot was made of the republican

framing of the issues in this election, particularly around crime. but when it came to who was elected, it is interesting to see the trend to a more progressive criminal justice solution. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "poor moon" by canned heat. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. as we continue our coverage of the midterm races, we turn now to look at what the results mean for the movement to reform the criminal justice system. progressive prosecutors won several key races, including in counties in texas, iowa, and minnesota, despite republican candidates across the country campaigning with a focus on crime and public safety. we go now to san francisco where we are joined by lara bazelon. she is a professor at the university of san francisco school of law.

the author of the book "rectify: the por of restorative justice after wrongful conviction." she is also the former head of thinnocence commission inside the san francisco da's office which was set up by chesa boudin, who was recalled in a controversial vote in june. professor, why don't you start off by talking about these victories and losses across the country. not a lot of the corporate media is paying attention to that right now. >> they are not and it is surprising because there was a prediction that progressive prosecutors were going to lose d the progressive prosecutor movement itself was in deep trouble, and that is not at all the story coming out of this election. in fact, quite surprisingly, the progressive candidates won across the board and a purple and blue but also red states. there were some resounding victories in unexpected places like oklahoma city, iowa, and a

number of counties in texas. nermeen: can you talk about this controversial recall of chesa boudin? >> yes. i think chesa boudin's recall was seen as a harbinger for what was in store for other progressive prosecutors. i think the real story is it was an outlier and i'll tell you why. i think the population of san francisco is unique. while we are thought of as this extremely liberal over-the-top city, it is in many ways a very traditional, liberal bastion with some very well entrenched pretty centrist moderate roots and it has very, very small minority population. what we're are seeing in a lot of these restrictions from marion county, indiana, to hays county, texas, to places like philadelphia and chicago is that cities with large minority populations -- talking about the populations that are most

directly impacted by crime -- the people who live there, they want a different solution, they want to progressive prosecutor. we not that -- we know that not only because they continue to let new progressive prosecutors, but they are reelecting the people they put in office four years ago. it is interesting with respect to chesa boudin, introduced the as the former of the innocen commission, even though we have a new da, this was a progressive idea that a more modernist, centrist d.a. is continuing to embrace and she has kept our commission intact. but there are certain ideas that even though voters may be rejected the overall person in a chesa boudin, they very much wanted to keep certain kinds of reforms, including the reform i am lucky enough to head up. amy: we have seen a lot of rick jenkins, this emphasis d.a., but -- the san francisco d.a., because of the hammer attack on the heart attack on the house

speaker's husband paul pelosi. we now know based on exposés in the san francisco papers, she was paid to lead the campaign to unseat chesa boudin. how has that changed the office in other ways in terms of the kind of criminal justice reform that chesa boudin was pushing forward? >> the office has moved very much rightward since brooke jenkins took over as interim head. she was appointed by our mayor. d i think yesterday she declared victory over her more progressive challenger. you are right that there have been a number of questions swirling around the administration. there was the question whether she was actually being paid at the time she said she was a volunteer for the recall. there is the question of emails she sent to her official account about a case that was a very high-profile case when chesa

boudin was first under attack. there are continuing to be these questions. i think it will be really interesting to see what happens in the next two years. another thing san francisco did was we changed our d.a. elections to match presidential elections so she will be up in 2024 with joe biden and many federal elected officials. that will be a big turnout election but also there will be more data. the truth ofhe matter is in places like san francisco where we did oust a progressive, we will have a lot of data in a couple of years from now in terms of how the more moderate centrists are doing and how people are feeling. and if the story does not really change, that i'm not sure how effective that recall stories going to be overall. you can see voters turning in a different direction. we're not going to know for a little while. amy: in new york, democratic governor kathy hochul has defeated her trump-backed

challenger lee zeldin. >> i don't think that's blessed with 1.2 main dollars worth of crystal meth that you should just be instantly released on cashless spell. kathy hochul supports cashless bail. she was bragging about it. she chose to champion to defend movement and architect of cashless bail that guy who got arrested and had to resign, that was her first big decision to make him lieutenant governor. we need to repeal cashless bail. raise the age and less is more. we need to make our streets safe again. amy: we saw the issue of crime raced across the country. people are concerned about crime across the political spectrum but the question is how to deal with that. i want to go from new york, i mean, zeldin did this in a very typical way, to places like minnesota, specifically neapolis, talking about defund the police.

the issue of the police force in minneapolis george floyd was killed was so central. in minnesota, the former chief offender will become the county attorney. and even to keith ellison who was just reelected as minnesota's state attorney general. >> minnesota's remarkable story. it was kind of ground zero for the campaign "defund the police" he would think the rhetoric in new york which was deployed at maximum volume is at stake but also local races and in minneapolis and minnesota would have been extremely effective. in fact, it was not at all. you are right, mary moriarty, she had a much more tough on crime challenger. she is a lifelong public defender. she was the chief public defender in minneapolis and hennepin county. if anybody would have, i think, been doomed to fail under the

tough on crime narrative, it would've been her. in fact, it was not even close. keith ellison, under a lot of pressure, strong challenger, people predicting he might lose his reelection to attorney general and in fact he won. so those reforms will stay in place. i think what that tells you, this experiment with criminal justice reform, this understanding we can't incarcerate our way to safety, that the kind of cruelty that some of these punishments are exerting on people to no good effect and the other additional problems like wrongful conviction or just criminalizing poverty so rich people are dangerous can buy their way out and poor people have to stay inside, there are a lot of voters who realized that of these policies are humane, just, or effective and the progressive narrative, far from being dead, is very much alive. amy: lara bazelon, thank you for being with us and ask you for

your final comments, what gives you hope across the country? and what message do you have for democrats who were caught flat-footed on this issue of crime but now the framing of this issue, who is winning with what solutions, how that can be amplified? >> i think progressives should take heart. i don't think running away and didn't terrified of being soft on crime level is either necessary or effective. i think the progressives need to embrace who they are, which is there going to treat people humanely, work on alternative solutions, bring the hammer down when appropriate but they're not going to treat every single problem like a nail that needs to be hammered as viciously and violently as possible because we just know it does not work. i would tell progressive prosecutors really to embrace your platform, to stand or who you are, and to talk about your victories whether it is going after a serial violent predator

or doing things like restorative justice to help people who really deserve and would benefit from another kind of option. to me the message really is that be who you are because the community's most affected by crime see that you generally believe the tough on, approached doesn't work, which if they know, they will respond to positively even in the most unlikely places like iowa and texas and oklahoma and then in purple states like minnesota. amy: lara bazelon, professor at the university of san francisco school of law, her book is "rectify: the power of restorative justice after wrongful conviction." she is chair of the innocence project inside the emphasis go das office. -- san francisco's d.a. office. next up, if this law is overturned, it could have seismic implications for

indigenous nations in the united states. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "boujee natives" by snot nose rez kids. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. we end today's show looking at the subprime court which heard oral arguments on wednesday in case focused on the indian child welfare act, 1978 law created to prevent from the separation in native communities. this case centers on the navajo girl known as babyo who is being raised by white couple sea to overturn indian child welfare act. our next guest says the court's ruling could have potentially seismic implications for indigenous nations in the u.s. we are joined by rebecca nagle, a cherokee writer and award-winning journalist. her piece in the nation is headlined "the story of baby o -- and the case that could gut native sovereignty."

welcome back to democracy now! why don't you lay out the story and then what the supreme court heard yesterday. >> thank you so much for having me. so baby o when she was born, she was left and hospital under nevada safe haven law. she went to live with a white couple who live outside of reno, nevada. they thought given the circumstances, they would be able to adopt her. at the child's father was identified and it became clear she was eligible for citizenship in a federally recognized tribe in texas in the case -- couple were told they would not be able to adopt the child, that her placement within would be temporary. instead of accepting the child would go to blood relatives, they decided to fight. they hired lawyers. they asked the child's grandmother to renounce her tribal membership.

they got in touch with relatives who were considering fostering and adopting the child and had conversations with them to try to talk them out of considering that. in the buy system with social workers who do not understand how it worked and -- they got a lot of help. the tribe gentrified family members that were -- identified family members that were available for fostering the child. the social workers in nevada weren't calling those family members most of the tribe had to get a judge to order them to call the family members. when the social workers did call family, they tried to talk to family out of fostering the child. eventually, the county pulled out a really weird threat that they were going to place the child back with her birth mother on paper that she would continue to live with the white couple so the case went to settlement. the couple were able to adopt

baby o. that was a little while about the lawsuit -- wild about the lawsuit is the couple are still plaintiffs. the u.s. supreme court heard their case along with their co-plaintiffs yesterday. even though they were able to win custody and adopt baby o over that child's blood relatives, they still claim that they faced racial discrimination that they faced racial discrimination and violated their constitutional rights. not because the adoption did not happen but because it was supposedly made harder. nermeen: can you explain for we go to a clip from the hearing, explain what the indian child welfare act that was passed in 1978, what rights did that act great to indigenous chilen. >> when it was passed in 1978,

25 to 35% of all eight of children have been removed from their families. there were some native communities that at that time did not have kids. it was extreme. icwa works to keep the child connected to their family, connected to their tribe. it gives native parents extra rights requires active efforts. there has to be a judge present. it allows tribes to intervene in the case for children who are on tribal land, those cases take place in trouble court. it does a lot of different things to try and prevent family separation and a native community's, which throughout u.s. history there has been times where it has been systemic. amy: i would like to turn to an exchange between justice kavanaugh and deputy solicitor

general edwin kneedler during wednesday's hearing. this clip begins with kavanaugh. >> to get to the heart of my concerns about this, you would agree i think, tell me if you disagree, that congress could not give a preference for white families, for white children for black families for black children's, for latino families for latino children, for asian children for asian families. do you agree with that? >> yes. that is truly based on race. >> and this is different because ? >> because it has to do with indian tribes. amy: rebecca nagle, can you explain what this is about? >> [indiscernible] amy: sorry, we are having a little trouble with your audio. why don't you start again. >> can you hear me? amy: you are breaking up. while you fix this, i will go to

a second clip. these are comments of supreme court justice neil gorsuch during wednesday's hearing. we're going right now to justice neil gorsuch. we were hoping that we had justice neil gorsuch, but let's see if we have rebecca nagle up. rebecca? now we can hear you. go ahead. >> native americans are sovereign indigenous nations and our citizens have a unique political status within u.s. law. a lot of people think of native americans as a racial group but that is not actually how the law works. the way the law works is we are a political group.

certain laws apply to me because i am a citizen of cherokee nation. that unique political status goes back to the treaty relationship between my tribe and the u.s. federal government. there is an entire section of u.s. code with laws that literally go back to the foundi of the republic that treat tribes and tribal citizens differently. i can access health care at a clinic that on serves tribe and tribal citizens. tribes can operate casinos and he states or non-native casino developers can't. land rights, water rights. if we're just a racial group, what racial group in the u.s. has its own environmental regulations, its own police force, its own criminal and civil codes? so the fear is that it is like pulling a string on a loose sweater. it can unravel and every thing

else will come with it. nermeen: could you explain in your piece in the nation, the "the story of baby o -- and the case that could gut native sovereignty." you explain there have been any attempts to overturn icwa and also explain who is behind these efforts, why has that been a concerted attempt to overturn this act? >> absolutely. i think unfortunately it is a story that media has really missed. places like "the new york times" have reported this case originated as a custody dispute but it is actually part of a coordinated litigation campaign to strike icwa down that has been led by the corporate law firm gibson dunn by a very small cadre of organizations, the

goldwater institute is really leading the front that in our investigation we found money from the bradley foundation, a right-wing family foundation, was behind her efforts. and a small group of private adoption attorneys and organizations representing private adoption industry it is pretty extraordinary when you look at the difference in hammond people are fighting this law and how many people support the law. there is texas coming out saying icwa is about law and then on the other side you have 23 states. it shows where we are in our democracy that when something is not popular, you could not get congress to overturn icwa, have enough resources and money to the courts to the same end. amy: talk about what this means for the future of native americans and for this issue of sovereignty, how the story of baby o, as you point outcome, is

so much bigger and why these right wing foundations and funders are so concerned about taking this act down. >> absolutely. i think we can see what their interests are by their actions. the corporate law firm gibson dunn and the party who brought this case brackeen filed a lawsuit last january making the exact same legal argument that they're making in brackeen but instead of representing foster parents that could not adopt native kids, there representing a non-native casino company that could not do the type of gaming that tribes can do. and the harm in that lawsuit is much more straightforward than the brackeen case. it is money. what is at stake for tribes is making a hard to -- it is basically everything. it is tribal sovereignty.

interviewing tribal leaders yesterday, a very heavy day at the supreme court for tribal leaders. because not only are our children on the line, but the legal foundation, the legal structure that defends the rights of indigenous nations in the united states is literally at stake. nermeen: one of the points that justice alito made which was extremely controversial, he said indian tribes were often fighting each other before the europeans arrived. your response to that? >> it is really sad but when we take our issues to federal court as indigenous nations, we're not only dealing with justices who literally don't understand federal indian law and don't have one understanding of how the letter of the law works, but they have so many racist stereotypes in their mind about

native people that those stereotypes come out during oral arguments. the idea that all indigenous nations were just at war with each other before europeans came is oiously not true obviously very racist. but we've seen it before. when this case was heard in the fifth circuit, a judge that was searching for hypothetical told of racist stereotypes that all native americans are drunks. it is just shocking but i think it shows how much ignorance and racism new system that we think is supposed to be about interpreting the law and interpreting precedent. so that is something that continued to be a big barrier for our native rights. amy: i just want to play what nermeen was referring to a supreme court justice alito at wednesday's hearing. >> before the arrival of europeans, their tribes were at

war with each other often and they were separated by an entire continent. amy: now the comments of neil gorsuch. >> sorry to interrupt, but this what i think take a huge bite out of title 25 of the u.s. code which regulates the federal government's relationship with tribal members. there are health care provisions that congress promises to native americans off reservation. that does not seem to fall in any of your buckets. congress has permitted tribes to exercise power over iran middle relations that have indirect effects off reservation. that would seem to go, too. we have laws that promise native americans access to sacred sites off reservation and religious

liberties off reservation. that would seem to go. i'm not even sure maybe the liquor sales, precedence, but i don't know. there would be a lie that would be -- we would be busy for the next many years striking things down. amy: that is justice gorsuch, rebecca. if you can explain wt he assange and finally as those arguments -- what he is saying come and finally those arguments, what you think the decision will be? >> justice gorsuch was pointing out what a lot of people -- legal scholars have been saying is the supreme court strikes down icwa on the grounds the plaintiffs are asking, it would have implications for other laws governing the rights of indigenous nations in this country. i think, unfortunately, it is very likely this court will strike icwa down. i think we have a lot of justices on the court who either don't understand federal indian law or are not interested in

upholding it. i would just say if people are talking about how radical the supreme court is -- joint amy: five seconds. >> they need to be looking at this case specially. amy: icwa is the indian child welfare act. rebecca nagle,

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