dictators. ♪ hello again. u.s. president joe biden has called midterm elections a good day for democracy as declared poll results defy the projected so-called red wave. republicans secured smaller margins than predicted but are likely to control the house of representatives. >> the president making very clear his basic message, saying to the american people -- we hear you -- clearly acknowledging that what these

results indicate, as well as a growing impatience among voters with the ongoing political rancor. with this in mind, president biden reached a hand across the aisle, pledging to work with republicans, should they gain control of the house, something results indicate is a possibility. it is a possibility, too, that they could aim control of the senate, which would make it difficult for president biden to put through his agenda in the remaining two years he will be in power if not standing for reelection. >> russia says it is withdrawing troops from a major battleground in southern ukraine. ukrainian forces have in advancing in the kherson region for several weeks now. russia's defense minister has ordered forces to retreat, but the ukrainian government's warning this may be a set of. tech giant meta plans to cut

more than 11,000 jobs. the company hired aggressively during the pandemic, but revenue has been lower than expected. france says it is unacceptable the italian government refused to allow several migrant ships to dock. for ships came to dock in sicily. four were allowed to dock, one is headed to france instead. that's new -- those are the headlines on al jazeera. i will be back after "inside story." stay tuned. ♪ >> should famine be declared in somalia? for months, the united nations and aid agencies have warned of extreme hunger and malnutrition on a catastrophic scale, so what

is preventing an official announcement, and would it make a difference on the ground? this is "inside story." ♪ hello there and welcome to the program. somalia is facing full-blown famine. it is at the country's doorstep. humanitarian agencies have been issuing warnings like that for months. unicef says conditions are worse now than during the last famine back in 2011, but no one has made an official declaration. the numbers, though, are start. the world food program says 7.31 million, nearly half the population, ace acute food insecurity, when lives are likelihoods are in immediate danger because there simply is not enough. 1.5 million children are malnourished.

pressure's invasion of ukraine has made staples such as grains and cooking oil on audible and millions have been displaced. >> i came here on the second of october, and i do not know anyone from this town. two of my children died here, and the surviving ones are hungry. my family does not have anything to eat and i don't have the relatives to help me. >> in the last two weeks, we have come across parents who have lost their children to hunger and drought. the drought is worse than the previous ones. people have reached here from fireplaces, and their problem is that they are new to the area. they do not have relatives to assist them. >> somalia's was -- somalia's president was asked about the drought. here's what he had to say. >> we are in a famine stage right now.

yes, it is a bit difficult, but it is working. there are certain locations of somalia, the risk is very high to announce famine. announcing famine or declaring famine in itself is a difficult situation. it halts development and changes perspective. >> famine is the most severe kind of hunger crisis, but it is also a technical term. the phases of food insecurity are carefully defined and classified within a framework known as the ipc. famine occurs when 20% of households face extreme food shortages, 30% of children suffer from acute malnutrition, and two of every 10,000 people die from starvation, disease, or malnutrition. the declaration is made by governments and the united nations.

with early warning and rapid action, it can be prevented. the last famine declared in somalia was back in 2011. at least 260,000 people died. well, let's now bring in our guest. in mogadishu, we have a research associate of the london school of economics who is also an aide practitioner and humanitarian specialist on somalia. in edmonton, canada, an author who is the executive director of the heritage institute of policy studies. also in mogadishu is the advisor to the mayor of mogadishu. a warm welcome to you all. thank you for joining us. you have been looking broadly at the situation in somalia, and i'm curious about what the situation is on the ground right at this moment. are we experiencing famine conditions in somalia and it just has not officially been declared yet?

>> thank you very much. i want to say hi to the other guests. by the way, we just published a report on this issue. we met everybody basically that matters for are relevant when it comes to this issue of food insecurity in somalia, including international organizations and the somali government and people who are on the front lines. we came to the conclusion at the time, just about three weeks ago, that the data is not there yet to conclude that the technical thresholds, the access, the nutrition level, and the food insecurity are there. what is needed to be done is instead of laying one or two

points here and there, the government and international community must act immediately and call this emergency as an emergency and mobilize local forces. basically, no one is saying people are not dying. people are dying in numbers, so let's not just focus on the technical part of it, and let's do what we can in order to help rescue the people who are facing the problem. we should not be focusing too much on debating the technicalities here. >> we were just describing the criteria there, what you need to deem a situation a famine, and notably, it is based on how many people are dying. i know that has been an issue of contention in the past. how useful is a threshold like that? for many of our viewers, it deals like a very unnatural kind

of distinction. >> thank you very much. i welcome the other guests, and just to follow up, of course, to declare famine is not political, as he put it, but i tend to disagree and say that we are already on the threshold if not even bypassing it because when we describe or when famine has to be declared, the threshold we might need to meet before famine is declared is like, for example, the number of death per 10,000, the level of malnutrition, the level of people who are in ipc five or ipc for -- ipc 4. of course, nationwide, the statistics might not be the same. the level of crisis might not be the same, but still, i talked to

the government, they have declared pockets of famine like what happened in 2011. in one part of the country, we might have a designation which is relatively manageable, but in another part of the country, things might be growing out of hand, and it is very unfortunate that we tend to rush the last minute. of course, the technicalities might be something different, but again, i think we are going past it. we have been cautioned, we have been discussing the same, we have been warning the donors, the government, the international community, and ultimately, -- unfortunately, it is now most of the people are feeling agitated.

>> hold on -- how does the government view this? is there famine in parts of somalia right now? >> thanks for having me. i'm happy to be part of this. i agree, i think there are pockets of food insecurity across the country. one death is too many, but i think there is a broader emphasis on time spent on technically declaring famine rather than being proactive and really engaging to address the issues of food security across the country. i do think the government has a right to not declare famine at this point in time. the numbers are simply not there, though we are seeing a large number of people in very difficult circumstances and even some death in parts of the country. what i would really recommend in terms of someone who works for

the government, which has one of the largest wooden securities is that we as a government and international partners who have already raised hundreds of millions of dollars actually ramp up efforts and target areas where there is a threat of famine. when the president took office back in may, the government appointed and envoy for the humanitarian crisis happening across the country. that envoy has successfully lobbied and been internationally embraced to respond to prevent famine, so i think the efforts of having a blanket declaration of famine is futile. it is not necessary. at this point, the numbers are not there, but what we are encouraging is to be more clear about how the international community in partnership with

the government is going to effectively prevent famine conditions from materializing. >> we will get to funding in a minute. i want to dig into that as well, but you just said a declaration of famine would be futile. i know a lot of people in aid agencies and the government are wary of the so-called password -- f-word because it does have specific and locations. what does a declaration of famine actually do? >> let me put it this way -- there is a committee that is asked to look at this, and they have the data now with their hand, and i'm told they will release that report on monday, tuesday of this week, so basically, we will know if we have the data or not and what that means. if the data is there, the government cannot say much. they have to declare the famine, and that means a lot.

by the way, if i government is not willing -- if a government is not willing or capable of protecting its people, it says a lot. what the somali government can do is if the data is there, if the committee concluded that the threshold has been reached, it has to announce the famine, and it has to lead the process, and that actually will boost its image internationally, will make them more responsible rather than just insisting on technicalities here and there. when it comes to declaring or not declaring, i hope that is clarified with this. >> i'm sorry, i want to ask all of you about this. it is my understanding that united nations agencies and the government have some leeway and latitude in terms of deciding on declaring a famine. i know you have been working --

with lots of people, you work on these famine review committees. in your mind, how much struct is the government have to decide on declaring a famine, because there have to be some political consensus, to. >> the last 30 years, the somali data was not in the hand of the government. it was in the hands of the international community. most of this data, not only did on the ground -- not only data on the ground, but subject to analysis and lots of things have to be factored in. but having said that, the government in the last 10 to five years has been building on its capacity in terms of getting access to such data and trying to understand how to make available the best information.

i agree that it is the responsibility of the government to protect this population from such a crisis, but it is very unfortunate that people started dying of the crisis as early as may, june, july. the data just accumulated, and it is a process. it is not one event. it is a process. the government has been following this, and the unfortunate part of it is the will of the government is so low that it is giving more strength to political bickering here and there while people are suffering. >> hold on. i'm going to let you come in to respond because we just heard the president speak, and he described a risk.

i'm sorry, but we will come back to you because i want to give an opportunity to respond to what you have just said. the president describing this risk in some areas to declare famine. what does he actually mean by that? >> one thing i want to comment on, the government's will to declare. i think the government is willing to take care of its citizens and be responsive to what's going on on the ground. we have had a contentious relationship with the united nations in terms of the numbers it collects in somalia. in recent years, there have been inflated numbers as the government strengthens its ability to function like a government, and the business of declaring famine or drought and all of that is being questioned on matters of technicality. i think the international community resorts to stating that the government is not willing or is busy with political bickering. i think that is a false

narrative that the government is neglecting its duties but really being cautious around what this means. at the moment right now, the numbers are not there. there are places in the country where, yes, food insecurity is and we do need to respond, but does that mean a blanket famine needs to be declared? i don't think so. my question is -- why are we not seeing increased response in the pockets of areas where we can actually target and improve conditions? as far as what the statement of the president has said, it is yes, there is the risk of famine. this is why we need to continue advocating to increase resources and activities -- >> i'm sorry, that's not what the president said. the president said declaring famine in specific areas was risky. i think a lot of people watching

would assume that a declaration of famine means more attention and more aid, so what's the downside? >> there is a risk of declaring famine, which means it interferes with somalia's development and projected agenda for the next four years. that does not mean that the government does not recognize the urgency. there is an entire envoy that has been at the request of the international community appointed. massive money has been collected. why are we not see more engagements on the ground and using the funds that have already been allocated rather than continuously looking to ramp up attention where we are not actually meeting the demand? >> i know you want to come in. you have not had a chance to speak recently. share your thoughts. >> can i just say quickly that when it comes to the f-word or the famine word, most of the

government's in the region don't like it? they have in pressuring the international community not to use it, and it is not just somalia and south sudan. they simply do not like it because of what it commentates -- because of what it connotate s. when we talk to somali officials, their main concerns, there are three concerns. one is the data. they might lose the coordination capacity of the whole area, and the third is that the relief, the money test for development might be reversed or rerouted to relief, so these were the concerns expressed to us. all of them are not founded. i think the government can be critiqued in this area by coming more forcefully, at least even

if it is not declaring famine, the president needs to come out and say the level of emergency here. the small vein that has just started might even complicate or at -- add to the deficit. also, a lot of the food is just sitting in the ports in mogadishu. what the president needs to do is use these forces to distribute food. by the way, just to go back to 1991 with the international community, particularly the united states, had to send thousands of people to distribute food, now it is really criminal in a sense to have so many people, so much

food available just a few hundred kilometers away, not being distributed timely. of course, there's all kinds of security problems. i think this is leadership that the government needs to show. >> a lot of this is about reputation and the perception of what the government is doing. let me ask you -- you are sitting in mogadishu -- how do somalians on the street feel about it? is there consensus amongst the public that more needs to be done? >> well, i think the issue of the government now saying that if we declare famine -- for example, the resources delegated might be diverted to humanitarian aid. i think when people are in crisis, the first thing the government should ask -- i really disagree with my colleagues, but the first thing the government should have thought of his stopping

development and saving people's lives. i think that should be the priority for a reasonable government. the other thing is that yes, people are seeing that people are dying because of the drought. the government is there. of course there are challenges. there's the security challenge, the access challenge, resource mobilization challenge, and all these challenges, and people talk about what is happening, that people are dying of hunger, dying of thirst, and, yes, the government is not capable of reaching it, but when it is -- when it declares famine, it is calling for other people to come and assist. the two things that do not marry here, is the government capacity in terms of responding to the crisis, even if it is in partnership with international actors, is limited for now, but

if it declares famine, more resources, more human capital and the like will come in in terms of responding to the crisis. now if the government says we cannot declare famine in pockets of the country, for example, that happened in 2011. that happened in 1992. why is it that when there was no government, that happened, and the response made by the somalis themselves, the international community saved their life? why is it now we have an effective government that is sitting on the decision -- i cannot understand that. >> hold on, i think this is a good time to bring you in here. hold on, in 2011 -- he was just saying there -- obviously, literally, a quarter of a million people died in somalia

in 2011. i was there myself watching it unfold. i was on the ground reporting, and i recall that when famine was declared, literally more than half of those deaths had already taken place. my question then to you is why wait? you have a saying that emergency relief needs to be prioritized over long-term development. you yourself mentioned there's enough resources there that i understand only -- what? 43% of the humanitarian response plan for this year has actually been funneled? >> i was here in 2011, and i saw the massive death that has been happening. luckily, this is not the case now. i think there is a misrepresentation of the severity of where we are today. i think there needs to be more focused on preventative measures

rather than focusing on technicalities on where somalia is today. i am in mogadishu. i agree with him when he says why are we not distributing what we already have? nearly 500,000 people are extremely food insecure nearly 10, 20 kilometers from where i am. we need to be extremely clear about what the intentions are with the declaration of mn. at the moment, we do not meet the criteria, but i do have colleagues pushing the declaration. to me, the international standards to actually increase and fund raise, i think that is not what the government wants. the government has done what it needs to do. the president they be ramping up the rhetoric on delivery or the nation releasing what is already there? i think there is a watch and

wait phenomenon going on right now, and i push it back to international partners who hold the largest person on somalia when it comes to humanitarian aid. they need to start activating the system and releasing funds that have been declared. the united states alone gave nearly $1 billion to somalia on humanitarian response. we are not seeing that level of response on the ground. i really do caution our partners on throwing accusations that the government is not responding. i think the government is responding. that is what the crisis calls for, but i really think we are sort of sidestepping the issue, which is why are we not acting now in terms of responding to the crisis? >> everyone is calling for as much action as possible and as soon as possible. i'm afraid we will have to leave your discussion today there. thank you, though, to our guest

s, and thank you, too, for watching. you can see this program again by visiting our website and for further discussion, do go to our facebook page. you can also join the conversation on twitter. for me and the whole team, goodbye for now. ♪

man: at the beginning of, um, of 2020, i had an exhibition at the university museum of contemporary art in mexi city, and it was an introspective exhibition called "customatism," and that exhibition had been prepared for years. i mean, had 30 years of work, if not more, probably, like, 40 years of work, and it was supposed to come to the museum of contemporary art in san diego, but then, all of a sudden, we had this pandemic. woman on tv: china has identified the cause of a mysterious new virus. man on tv: we now have a name for the disease-- covid-19. man 2 on tv: you must stay at home. president trump: we're asking