12/01/22 12/01/22 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> during the trial, the government's evidence showed almost immediately following the november 2020 election, defendant stewart rhodes, founder and leader of the oath keepers, began planning to oppose by force the peaceful transfer of power. amy: for the first time in nearly 30 years, federal jury convicted two defendants of

seditious conspiracy, the crime of conspiring to overthrow the u.s. government. we will get an update. it what are democrats trying to pass on it a session of congress before losing their majority in the house? we will speak with amerin prospect edir david dayen. >> democrats have a few options for theame-duck session but the biggest is funding the government sit does not shut down th origina l of cooperation beg done rht now in congres uld be a full year containing resolutions to fund the government at current level, which woulbe the first effective -- at least not an increase in military budget. amy: in new york city, mayor adams announces police will start hospitalizing people with mental illness against their will even if they pose no threat to others. >> a common misunderstanding, if

we cannot provide a voluntary assistance unless the person is violent, suicidal, or presenting a risk of imminent harm. this myth must be put to rest. amy: we will get response with jumaane williams and jawanza williams, who have both called for replacing police with mental health workers when someone is experiencing a mental health crisis. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the house has passed legislation to block a nationwide rail strike by imposing a contract that has been rejected by unions representing the majority of freight rail workers. in addition, the house passed a separate bill by a much narrower margin to give seven days of paid sick leave to railroad workers, but it remains unclear if this provision will pass in

the senate. the vote came two days after president biden pushed congress to prevent the strike. on wednesday, senator bernie sanders slammed railroad carriers for refusing to provide workers any paid sick days while their profits soar. >> do we stand with workers in the rail industry and say, yes, you are right, working conditions are horrendous, we cannot continue a process by which you have zero days sick leave? we stand with workers or do we stand with an industry that is making huge profits, pays its ceos exorbitant salaries and treats its working -- workers with contempt? amy: in other news from capitol hill, house democrats have unanimously elected hakeem jeffries of new york to lead the caucus, making him the first african-american to lead a political party in congress. jeffries, who is 52, will succeed nancy pelosi who led house democrats for two decades. congressmember alexandria

ocasio-cortez said the party could have benefited if the election to lead the party was contested, saying -- "this is the most significant generational change that we have seen in house democrats in several decades. i personally believe that we would benefit from a debate on what that means." while jeffries is a member of the congressional progressive caucus, he has been at odds with some progressives in the house. in 2016, he backed hillary clinton over bernie sanders. last year, he told the atlantic -- "there will never be a moment where i bend the knee to hard-left democratic socialism." on wednesday, democrats also elected katherine clark of massachusetts to serve as whip and pete aguilar of california to serve as chair of the party caucus. meanwhile, house have finally obtained donald trump's tax returns, in and a multiyear court battle. the treasury department released them to the house ways and means

committee wednesday. protests are continuing in china over the country's strictovid restriions. videfrom guangou, a majo manufacting hub, sw police in hmat unifor confronting protesters. russia is poised to expand its 2013 anti-lgbtq law banning so-called gay propaganda. the law seeks to prohibit movies, advertisements, websites, and books featuring same-sex relationships or transgender characters in a positive light. individuals found to be in violation of the law could be fined over $6000. president putin is expected to sign the law which was approved by lawmakers. this is ksenia mikhailova from the russian lgbtq support group "coming out." >> [indiscernible]

and make of israeli authorities arrested the prominent palestinian activist issa amro on monday, days after he posted video showing an israeli soldier throwing an israeli activist to the group and then punching them in the face in the city of hebron in the occupied west bank. before he was released, amro was reportedly beaten at the police station before he was interrogated. his home was also raided. amro is the founder of youth against settlements. on wednesday, the israeli activist miko peled tweeted -- "issa's life is in danger and there must be guarantees to his personal safety." meanwhile, israeli forces have killed another two palestinians during a raid in the jenin refugee camp in the occupied west bank. according to al jazeera, israel has now killedight palestinians over the past three days in the west bank. a u.s. citizen who lives in massachusetts has been arrested on a trip to the united arab emirates and faces possible

extradition to egypt after he made a video calling on egyptians to protest during the recent u.n. climate summit in sharm el-sheikh. the 46-year-old sherif osman is a former egyptian army officer who has become a vocal critic of egyptian president abdel fattah al sisi. osman was arrested by two plainclothes officers in uae on november 6, two days after he arrived from the united states. the biden administration's attempt to cancel hundreds of billions of dollars in student debt has been dealt another setback. the 5th u.s. circuit court of appeals has rejected a request by the biden administration to put on hold a ruling against the plan by a judge in texas. the issue will likely now go to the supreme court. in a major victory for immigrant rights activists, the federal government has announced it is closing the berks detention center in pennsylvania. groups, including the shut down berks coalition, have organized for years to close the facility

which was once used to imprison families as they sought asylum. most recently, berks was ud as an immigrant women's prison. "the los angeles times" has revealed immigration and customs enforcement accidentally posted detailed personal information online about more than 6000 asylum seekers in the united states. immigrant rights advocates fear the unprecedented data release could jeopardize the lives of many immigrants who came to the u.s. fleeing torture and violence. a group of yale students are suing the ivy league university for discriminating against students with mental health challenges. the lawsuit alleges yale pressures students to take voluntary leaves of absence if they are experiencing significant symptoms of mental health disabilities, while suggesting the students might otherwise be suspended. students who take leave, either voluntarily or involuntary, often lose parts of their tuition and accommodation payments, as well as access to

student health insurance. the founder of the website cryptome.org has written to the u.s. justice department with a strange request. he is asking to be indicted for violating the espionage act. cryptome's founder john young says he should be added as a co-defendant in the prosecution of wikileaks julian assange because he published the same leaked government documents at the center of the u.s. case against assange. well julian assange faces 175 years in u.s. prison if he is extradited and convicted, the u.s. government has never moved to prosecute young who says he published the documents two days prior to wikileaks. earlier this week, "the new york times" and four international papers called on by to drop the charges against assange saying publishing is not a crime. president biden announced new investments for indigenous communities, including $135

million to help 11 tribal communities severely impacted by climate change. three of those communities are planning on relocating altogether. biden spoke wednesday at the white house tribal nations summit. pres. biden: there are tribal communities at risk of being washed away by superstorm's, rising sea levels, and wildfires raging. amy: biden also vowed to protect spirit mountain, or avi kwa ame, in nevada, a sacred site for the fort mojave tribe and others. advocates have been pushing for years to designate the area as a national monument. the justice department is suing jackson, mississippi, over its failure to provide its 160,000, majority-black, residents with safe drinking water. this is attorney general merrick garland. >> communities of color, indigenous communities, and low income communities often bear the brunt these harms.

as we work to fulfill our responsibility to keep the american people safe, to protect civil rights, we will continue to prioritize cases like this one that will have the greatest impact on communities most burdened by environmental harm. amy: on tuesday, the city of jackson and the mississippi health department agreed to federal oversight of its crumbling water system. in august, city officials issued boil water advisories across jackson that lasted nearly seven weeks. in pennsylvania, the fracking company coterra energy has agreed to pay $16.2 million after pleading no contest for polluting the water in and around the community of dimock. coterra, which was previously known as cabot oil and gas, will also pay water bill payments for the impacted residents for the next 75 years. the 2022 right livelihood awards were given out on wednesday at a ceremony in stockholm. the award is widely known as the

alternative nobel prize. winners included the somali activist ilwad elman, who was recognized along with her mother for their work to bring peace in somalia. >> somalia right now is facing the worst drought in the last 40 years. re than a llion people are already displaced. if immediate action is not taken,e are onrink of famine. y: otherinners of e 2022 right lilihood awas included the ukrainian group center for civil liberties led by oleksandra matviichuk, the nezuelan clective cesesola, anthe uganda africa instute for ergy governance. visit democracynow.org to watch the right livelihood awards ceremony. and today marks world aids day. unaids is calling for a renewed push to combat the hiv virus after the world turned its focus to covd-19 and other global crises over recent years. 1.5 million new hiv inctio were recorded in 2021 -- 1

million more than the global target of half a million -- with an eimated death toll of 650,000. unaids also reports dangerous inequalities persist with girls and young women especially at risk. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. for the first time in nearly 30 years, a federal jury has convicted two defendants of seditious conspiracy -- the crime of conspiring to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the government of the united states. jurors in washington, d.c., on tuesday found oath keepers founder stewart rhodes guilty of seditious conspiracy for plotting to keep donald trump in power after the 2020 election, resulting in the deadly january 6 insurrection at the capitol. kelly meggs, who led the florida chapter of the oath keepers, was also convicted of seditious conspiracy.

three other insurrectionists -- jessica watkins, kenneth harrelson, and thomas caldwell -- were found guilty of other felonies. attorney general merrick garland praised the verdicts wednesday. >> during the trial, the government's evidence showed almost immediately following the november 2020 election defendant stewart rhodes, the founder and leader of the oath keepers, began planning to oppose by force the peaceful transfer of power. with rhodes, kelly meggs, kenneth harrelson, jessica watkins, and thomas caldwell communicated and plan to travel to washington around january 2021. on january 6, defendants meggs, harrelson, and watkins forcefully breached the u.s. capitol wearing paramilitary gear while defendants rhodes and caldwell remain outside of the

capitol grounds, coordinating activities. last evening, a jury of the defendants peers found each of them guilty of serious felony offenses. as makes clear, the department will work tirelessly to hold accountable those responsible for crimes related to the attack on our democracy on january 6, 2021. amy: that's attorney general merrick garland. the oath keepers verdict could give momentum to cases against other major players behind the push to keep trump in power. for more, we're joined by kristen doerer, managing editor of right wing watch. welcome back to democracy now! talk about the significance of these convictions for could -- for seditious conspiracy. >> this is the first time in about 30 years we have had a guilty verdict when it comes to

seditious conspiracy. it is very notable a win for the justice department and it also sends a message that the legal actions against the government will in unpunished. i would say there are also a number of other oath keepers who are charged with seditious conspiracy you're going to trial next week and members of the proud boys, another far right extreme organization, are also being charged with seditious conspiracy and they go to trial december 12. this sends a message to those who have pled not guilty that they have a tough trial ahead of them and that a jury has already found similar insurrectionists guilty. so it will be interesting to see whether these defendants decide whether they want to cooperate with the federal government and prosecutors or whether they will

continue to plead not guilty. amy: so tell us who oath keepers are and specifically its founder stewart rhodes who is convicted. >> so the oath keepers are far right extremist organization. it is an antigovernment organization fashion as a militia founded in 2009 by stewart rhodes. the organization is extremely conspiratorial. they believe the federal government is out to take away americans freedoms and essentially enslaved americans. and they often -- this is often the pitch they give recruits and they heavily recruit from former law enforcement -- current and former law enforcement and military. amy: tell us more about stewart rhodes' background and also kelly meggs, was also convicted of seditious conspiracy, head of the florida chapter of the oath keepers. >> stewart rhodes is former

military. he also was a big rand paul fan and -- ron paul, i should say. he is also a yale law graduate. he has long been involved in this antigovernment extremist movement and he founded the organization in 2009. it was kind of in reaction to the election of president barack obama. amy: and what was he saying then? >> again, this was, you know, he is a very antigovernment message and this believe that the federal government is being taken over by the so-called deep state and that americans need to, you know, they need to protect their freedoms and their enemy as the federal government.

now, that all changed when trump came into power. they then aligned themselves with trump in the trump administration, and that is what we saw ahead of the capitol insurrection. what we ended up saying was there was this alliance and allegiance that they had toward trump and just wanted to keep trump in power. amy: so if you can talk about encrypted message he sent to his reporters after biden was elected saying, we aren't getting through this without a civil war. and then in his opening statement, the attorney for stewart rhodes said that he and his subordinates had never plan an attack against the government but instead were waiting for trump to invoke the insurrection act explain also what that means. >> first thing i will say is that stewart rhodes has long been obsessed with this idea of civil war.

shortly after -- in early november, he was already calling for the potential use of force to keep trump in power claiming he had been illegally -- claiming falsely that he had been illegally -- had lost the election was going to be illegally removed from office. and so he is very blatantly and out in the open in december, early in december he ended up talking to a rally on the national mall in which he called for bloody war should trump not invoke the insurrection act. so he was both calling for trump to invoke the insurrection act and trying to use that as cover to justify any violent actions that the oath keepers would end up taking. he was calling for the use of the insurrection act from very early on, but there were also, you know, audio recordings and

messages in which it was clearly said that the insurrection act -- calling for the insurrection act would try to be used as cover for any violent actions that the oath keepers ended up taking. amy: earlier this year, report revealed that more than 370 law enforcement professionals appeared to be linked to the oath keepers. the anti-defamation league found the names among some 38,000 sit as members in a leaked ever ship list including police chiefs and sheriffs and more than 80 people who were either running for public office or already serving as elected officials. the significance of this? >> it is very significant. it is also not very surprising. this is because the oath keepers , they often recruit from former and current law enforcement and military.

again, they'd come to these recruits and they say, the only people can protect them from the federal government is law enforcement and military, we need your skills. and that is it. they also want these tactical skills that law enforcement and the military have. it is very concerning. there is also -- the oath keepers also have connections to an antigovernment sheriffs organization that sees the sheriff as the supreme leader of the land and they don't see the federal government -- they believe that sheriffs have more power than the federal government. and so there are a number of sheriffs who also abide by this extremist ideology. it should be concerning. a badge is not a shield to shield you from accountability. and so we have to make sure we are holding people accountable and that our law enforcement are abiding by, you know, the

government and the rules we all follow. i wanted to ask -- go ahead. >> as far as the elected officials, there are a number of people who are members of the oath keepers at the state level and at the local level and this is because often times these individuals do not have as much scrutiny on them, so they are able to hold these membership affiliations. so that is where we see ople like arizona state senator wendy rogers, arizona state representative marks tension claim their members of the oath keepers. amy: i wanted to ask you about donald trump facing growing condemnation from even republicans, or certain ones, for hosting the white supremacist nick fuentes at his mar-a-lago resort in florida last week. he is a holocaust denier,

well-known races. he dined with the president along with the rapper kanye west, who was suspended from twitter last month for making anti-semitic comments. you noted in a tweet, kristen, 57 republican lawmakers were asked if they condemned his dinner and some failed to condemn it. the significance of this? nothing uses like failure because of the number of people that trump endorsed in the election that failed -- you see a number of republican senators like romney and others condemning trump for hosting this dinner. trump has yet to apologize. nick fuentes was a 2017 unite the right rally in charlottesville, virginia. talk about who he is and the meaning of this, the man running for house speaker kevin

mccarthy, interestingly, has yet to fully condemned trump for hosting. >> nick fuentes is a well-documented white nationalist, misogynist, christian nationalist. he is very anti-democratic and has an authoritarian vision for the united states. we can say he is well-documented because right watch has been covering this every single day trying to make sure it is known that nick fuentes is a white nationalist. trump having him at a dinner is very significant, also significant trump spoke fondly of him and said, "i like this guy." it is significant that trump -- hasn't apologize for having dinner with him. there have been a number of republicans who have come forward and announced it. but it has taken too long.

the fact that mike pence took a number of days before he denounced trump for holding this dinner is disappointing. and there are a number of republicans who still have not responded and announced trump for dining with a white nationalist. that should be concerning to all of us. the other thing i will say is that whiteationasts are sin this lk of denciion, the refusal denounc trumpr this dinner co as tacit endorsemt. we he to be very carul. the ino rm, no exce for iteationali, anti-mitism , d it suld be problematic -- we should hold every elected official who has dinner with somebody like that accountable. amy: nick fuentes was at the riot on january 6, though he

said he did not go inside, he were of yuppie badge to trump's speech and addressed supporters outside the capitol during the insurrection according to the southern poverty law center and was subpoenaed by the january 6 committee. kristen doerer, thank you for being with us, managing editor of right wing watch. we will continue to cover these trials. next up, we will look at what the democrats have passed and are trying to pass in the lame-duck session of congress before losing the majority in the house. we will speak with david dayen. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: max richter's "infra 4." this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we look now at what could happen in these final weeks of the current congress, which will be a busy lame duck session as democrats try to pass as many bills as possible before losing their majority in the house and

control of congress is divided. wednesday already saw a major changing of the guard in the house when democrats unanimously elected hakeem jeffries of new york as their new leader, making him the first african-american to lead a political party in congress as he succeeds nancy pelosi, who led house democrats for two decades. amid concerns the supreme court may overturn current same-sex marriage protections, the senate voted tuesday to pass the historic respect for marriage act in a 61-36 vote, which will require the federal government and states to recognize same-sex marriages. on wednesday, the house passed legislation to block a nationwide rail strike by imposing a contract rejected by unions representing the majority of freight rail workers. it also passed a separate bill by a much narrower margin to give seven days of paid sick leave to railroad workers, but it remains unclear if this will

-- if this provision will pass in the senate. democrats also face an uphill battle in passing a long-term government funding deal to keep federal agencies operating. to discuss all of this and more, we're joined by david dayen, executive editor of the american prospect who has been following this closely, his recent piece headlined "reconciliation is available to end debt limit hostage-taking." let's talk about what they did do this week, david. let's first talk about the same-sex marriage, respect for marriage act that was passed by the senate -- many republicans joining with democrats. talk about what was accomplished in this and what was compromised in this. >> as you said, this is a bill that comes out of the dobbs ruling at the supreme court, which was about abortion. but in a footnote, in the conferring opinion, justice clarence thomas said that the same logic could be used to take down the same-sex marriage

ruling that allowed for those marriages to be conducted in the united states. so this bill, as you say, got 12 republicans and it is senate. an earlier version got 47 house republicans to vote for it. it requires if there is a same-sex marriage that is legally performed in one state, it requires other states to accept that marriage. the one thing that it does is it adds a sort of conscience protection that says this does not force any vendor to engage in anything that violates the religious beliefs. there is actually a supreme court case based on the situation in colorado with a graphic designer that is going

to adjudicate this even further and say whether that forcing -- saying that person must create designs for a same-sex wedding violates her first amendment rights. but certainly, this bill will not stand in the way of that. however, it is certainly in advance to codify the protections of obergefell into federal law. amy: yet a powerful speech by tammy baldwin, the first openly lgbtq senator elected. i wanted to play a clip of the wisconsin senator. >> i want to recognize the millions of same-sex and interracial couples who truly made this moment possible by living their true selves and changing the hearts and minds of people around this country.

many of these same-sex and interracial couples are fearful. they are worried the rights, responsibilities, and freedoms that they enjoy through civil marriage could be stripped away. amy: and yet the conservative wyoming republican senator loomis who gave a powerful speech on the floor also supported the respect for marriage act and said she had been vilified and received the norma's amount of hate mail -- enormous amount of hate and the for supporting this act. i wanted to ask you, david, why we don't see the same kind of passage of a sort of roe v. wade law passing the senate? >> we would not get 12 republicans for it in the senate i think is the answer to that question. clearly, there was enough of a coalition built on same-sex marriage to get the necessary support -- that necessary support was probably there

before the election. there was some question as to whether democrats should put that vote in beforehand so that people like ron johnson who is up in a close race where he only won by one point in november, would have had to vote on a pretty controversial position that he held against same-sex marriage, which, you know, he did in this vote this week -- you know, ultimately, they went with going ahead and putting it off until after the election. there isn't a coalition, 60 votes, right now in the u.s. senate on codification of roe. in fact, there isn't 50 votes. joe manchin does not support codifying roe at this time and if they held that vote before the election and he did not support it. amy: can you talk about the vote on the banning of rail workers to strike and the significance

of this? the biden administration loves to tell themselves as the most prolabor administration, now going against the majority of working unionized workers in passing this in the house? >> certainly. the house did pass a second bill that adds 76 days, but that would also need to cross a 60 foot threshold in the senate -- amy: and why would it be a separate bill? we are coming out of this pandemic, that they do not have paid sick leave? >> it is quite distressing that you have essentially on-call all the time scheduling if you are a real worker in the united states. the reason congress is involved in this at all is based on a 1926 law called the railway labor act which allows congress to insert itself into a labor-management situation in

the case of transportation unions were shutting them down would affect the nation's commerce. that law might have made sense in 1926, but i don't think it makes sense now in 2022. unfortunately, it is the law of the land. yeah, certainly, separating those two pieces of legislation -- now they go to the senate, allows the senate to approve the tentative agreement, reject the additional sickays, and pass that on to the president. this is certainly a kind of no-w situation. nobody wants to see working people who would not be able to get their medicine or not be able to get food suffer as a result. but at the same time, certainly, workers in the rail industry effectively have no recourse when congress can step in and insert the terms of a contract that they rejected. there is one recourse that the

president has, and i hope he takes it. there is in executive order that mandates all federal employees get seven sick days to the workers. it was passed in 2015 under president obama and inexplicably, the president at that time exempted rail the rail industry from that requirement and biden could simply redo that and say the rail industry is not exempted and you need to give these seven sick days to your workers. amy: can he talk about the significance of hakeem jeffries being elected to replace nancy pelosi? not as house speaker at this point because it looks like it will be majority republican house, but the significance, the first african-american to head a rty in congress, also his politics? >> certainly that is notice -- notable, not just because it is the first african-american to

head a political party in the house, but it is a new generation of leadership to combine the three new leaders and that includes both jeffries, christine clark, and -- amy: pete aguilar. >> their combined 93 years younger than the three outgoing in the democratic party. so this is a generational change. on policy, i'm not sure it is very much of a change as jeffries has been outspoken against progressives. he actually put together a pac with maybe the most conservative member of the house of representatives on the democratic side. it is called a team blue pack and it was designed to protect incumbents from progressive primary chaenges. his does she certainly has taken

tons of money from the financial services sector, he is a corporate lawyer, from amazon. there are a number of pieces of donations to jeffries. so on policy, i'm not sure there's going to be a whole lot of change. certainly, in terms of generational change, it is a big move. amy: and the significance of the republicans taking over the house? they have already laid out some of the things they're going to do. they told the january 6 committee they have to preserve their documents, not that they're going to. they will be investigating, the whole issue of immediately and paneling accrued to investigate biden, possibly impeach him, go after his son hunter biden. can you talk about what this means? >> certainly investigations are going to be the major work product of the republican congress. it is going to be benghazi all

day every day. there does not seem to be much even interest in putting together a set ofolicies. however, there are these leverage points that republicans are going to have over the next two years. whether it is when there is a need to find the government or a need to raise the nation's debt limit, which is a caps on spending and borrowing, should say, a caps on borrowing that the government can undertake. those are going to be the moment when legislation and policy changes could happen because republicans are going to hold out on passing those must pass bills unless they get some ideological change that they require. david open about this. just this week, number two in the senate republican leadership

has said we are going to use the debt limit as leverage to try to make changes specifically to entitlement programs. social security and medicare. democrats are kind of sleepwalking through this. they believe they can win that fight later since it would be very unpopular to make changes like cuts to medicare and social security, but if republicans are taking hostage, essentially, the full fth and credit of the u.s. government and saying you have to cut social security in a grand bargain or else we are going to default on the nation's debt, that is something we should take extremely seriously. it is something democrats should make all efforts in this lame-duck session to prevent that possibility from happening. and there is a way to do it using the reconciliation that was used to pass the inflation reduction act with only democrats in the senate. you could use that again to raise the debt limit to such a

number that republins would not have the opportuni to use it as a hostagetaking situation. amy: finally, on mccarthy, is he going to win for house speaker and the battle within the republican party around his speakership? >> he does not have the votes right now. i think he would even acknowledge that. you need 218 votes in order to be elected speaker, and there are several hard right republican members who have said under no circumstances with a vote for marthy. the problem is they don't have an answer as to what they would do in that circumstance. there doesn't seem to be 218 votes for anybody. so if this drags on and there are multiple ballots, you could see eventually mccarthy -- it is really mccarthy versus nobody. you would think eventually mccarthy would win that battle,

although, there could be compromise candidate put forth, someone like steve scalise who is number two in the republican house leadership. amy: or even someone who is not a current congressman. there could even be a donald trump. >> i don't think it will be donald trump, especially after this week. that i somhing that could be done, although, it is fairly unprecedented in recent history. i think mccarthy is busy right now king concessions to the far right so that he can capture those 218 votes. there are a series of house rules that were voted on republicans yesterday that gave them more power -- gave more power to block bills or make sure they have a voice in those bills. and so mccarthy is right now doing this grant search for 218.

who knows what he's going to give away in order to get that power. amy: david dayen, thank you for being with us, executive editor of the american prospect. your book is "monopolized: life in the age of corporate power." coming up next, you're going to look at what is happening here in new york as rights advocates are alarmed the mayor eric adams has announced police will start hospitalizing people with mental illness against their will even if they pose no threat to others. we will get response. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "over and over" by fleetwood mac. fleetwood mac's christine mcvie passed away wednesday at 79. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we end today's show here in new york city, where mayor eric adams alarmed human rights advocates this week with his announcement that police and emergency medical workers will start hospitalizing people who are unhoused against their will even if they pose no threat to others. >> this myth must be put to rest. amy: the new york civil

liberties union responded -- "the mayor's attempt to police away homelessness and sweep individuals out of sight is a page from the failed giuliani playbook. with no real plan for housing, services, or supports, the administration is choosing handcuffs and coercion." for more, we're joined by two guests. jumaane williams is a new york city public advocate who has called for non-police responses to non-criminal emergencies in a plan he submitted to mayor adams to end systemic homelessness. also with us is jawanza williams, director of organizing at vocal-new york which has long called for "caring and compassionate new deal" to address poverty and public health concerns and supported "daniel's law," which would work to replace police officers with mental health workers when someone is experiencing a mental health crisis. named for daniel prude, the african-american man who was killed by police in rochester, new york, as he was naked

outside, they pushed his face into the freezing cold ground, put their knee in his back for a number of minutes. jumaane williams and jawanza williams, welcome to democracy now! start off by responding to mayor adams' plan, plan that i think ties around the country are looking at now. >> first, thank you so much for having me glad to be here with jawanza williams. i know i am in the right space. good to be here. if we know more about people being involuntarily detained by police and we do about the care that they're going to receive, thats a major red flag. we for too long have been overly reliant on law enforcement to do with issues like homelessness and mental health, which are prlem and cannot be ignored because we refuse to invest in what actually needs to deal with

the issues. we put several plans come after. a few weeks ago, how we get address the mental health crisis, making sure that law enforcement are not primarily responsible, certainly not the ones who should be making a desion on whether meone is involuntarily put into hospital or not. many questions have to do wit what happens after, they getting the care they need? and lastly, seems like we are broadening the definition of who this could happen to. so have a lot of questions we will be asking. amy: how did you respond to the plan you put forward as public advocate? >> we are still waiting to hear an actual response. i'm not sure is was a response. we want to make sure the right folks got it. we want to make sure we are giving every opportunity for people to respond.

we have been talking about these issues for a long time. as a matter of fact, the quote we put out two weeks ago was an update to the report from 2019. we have done some good things, but quite frankly, we are going backwards. even the part of the plan -- there are parts that make sense but again, the part we are happy -- there's no discussion about how much funding will go there, how it will be operationalized. amy: talk about the alternative. talk about the plan put forward. we're talking about something like 55,00unhoused people in new york city. >> we put forth two planes that normally we talked about together. housing and homelesess and mental health. when it comes to the mental health 2019 we had more beds

than we do now. before the pandemic, we had more capacity and we were already having issues. we have less capacity, see can imagine how many issues we have now. many people who are chronically homeless in the street, we have to make mention there are many people who are working but can afford a place to live. we have a number of ideas of how to deal with and preserve actual housing that we have now. when it comes to people you are having mental health crisis any care, we laid out a very concrete plan of how we can build out infrastructure so people can get the care and continual care that is needed. that does require finding and investing. unfortunate, we don't get that. but we often get is if we can't do that now, we will send law enforcement to solve the problems. quite frankly, is not fair to law-enforcement officer and

certainly not fair to the person who needs the assistance. amy: the new report that you have put out shows it costs $46,000 more per yr to host a family of three in city shelter than to provide that family with affordable housing. again, from san francisco to los angeles to new york, this issue of warehoused apartments and apartments that are not used in their prices of homelessness in the city. if you can talk about what is th path to using that space? >> we put so much money into sheltering homeless new ykers, and i'm sure it is the same al across the country, en we do actually housi them. there's a lot of frustration. we have been trying to battle what we call zombie hses and

warehousing houses, or people are keeping off the market. we do try a lot to me sure there is rezoning happening in the city, that we are should put affordable housing in those units but right now, it inventions are being held up by the governor -- evictions are being held up by the govnor visibly says if you want to convict someone, you should get a good reason to do so. we get such pushback. that alone stems this tide of evictions, increased homelessness going on. also additional support for people who need rental assistance because the type of support that people get now doesn't match the market. new york city is now the most expensive place to rent. but we're not doing anything to

stem those tides. people who make the most money and donate the most money are setting the rules that are in personally making it worse. amy: your report also finds a majority of those in shelters are men, women, and families of color. the largest share, black, who have come from historically redline neighborhoods "that this city has neglected with its education, environment health, and housing dollars." i wanted to bring in jawanza williams without finding and the kind of work you do at vocal-new york. and i also want to ask you about the new rules that are banning photos and videos from within the new york city shelter system. >> first of all, thank you so much for having me. i deeply appreciate being on the air with jumaane williams. i think the first thing i have to say is vocal-new york filled power -- build an economy and

democracy in new york city that works for all of us and organize unions made up of people or drugs impacted by these issues who are politically active in responding. a lot of the perspective i'm holding today is about coming from the leadership the people directly in these union structures. i think the idea that we have to -- policies banning photography inside shelters is no surprise to me. i think the mayor and the administration have a public -- catastrophe unfolding for them politically. this is not good optics for the administration. hiding people experiencing homelessness, preventing people from taking photographs inside shelters will not prevent the truth from coming out. one of the things i really want to put forward in this conversation and i deeply appreciate the number of things

the public advocate is talking about is that we need to be using crisis and language like mental health complexity. we don't want to individualize all of the phenomena, but thinking about the structura political cultural framework situation that is exacerbating this issue like mass homelessness, problematic drug policy that is criminalizing people. what we need to see happen is the city of new york, that our mayor is actually responding to the structural phenomena investigating these things so we can actually use our limited resources in a more targeted way that makes sense. i colleague of mine said to me yesterday, the moment something is coercive, compassion is out the door. we have to hold that complexity and also the public advocate minted decimation people need until assistance. we need a section eight style

housing voucher for new york state that would go to people experiencing homelessness, people that are struggling to pay rent, people who are uncumented. so if we can pass this bill, we can make sure thousands, tens of thousands of people are able to be safely housed. that would require large amount of work. amy: the new york city department of education released a report last month that nearly 104,000 public school students were unhoused in 2021. that includes living in shelters, in cars, kids doubled with family members, or just on the streets. they don't include migrant children who have just been arriving in new york city. what is mayor adams doing about this? >> payment, that is a good question. i'm not totally sure. he is sweeping and camas, talking about voluntarily arresting people to put them

into supposed treatment with no real meaningful plan, no pathway, no, since infrastructure for stabilization, no promise for supportive housing, no -- really the smoke and mirrors trick he is been doing throughout the year, especially when it came to safe haven, low threshold beds. he created, rooted settings in the middle -- he created copper get settings in the middle of a pandemic. i've not heard anything about the children across the city that 100,000 plus children, 5000 not sheltered at all, expressing -- that is part and parcel to the problem. it is affecting democracy in the united states itself. when i think about the fact we did not hear anything about the 104,000 children that were unsheltered in 2021, during any

kind of midterm conversations in the state of new york, no meaningful contention with this issue. i think it is part and parcel to why we have these crises occurring like the mental health crisis and like the homelessness crisis. one thing i want to uplift when we are thinking about the long-term future of this city and its people, what story are we telling the 100 thousand children that are experiencing homelessness right now because many of them are aware they are homeless that we are scapegoating people for every violent thing that happens in the city? that we are not moving and loving and caring and compassionate ways? that we're not trying to problem solve at the root and instead we are using these narratives and these frameworks that produce vigilantes -- think about the number of people experiencing homelessness that have been killed in the last couple of years, the last three years in chinatown, across our city. amy: five seconds. we want to thank you both for

being with us. jawanza williams is the director of organizing at vocal-new york. and jumaane williams, new york city public advocate. that does it for our show. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

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