12/23/22 /23/22 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> we have never had a president of the united states stir up a violent attempt to block the transfer of power. i believe nearly two years later, this is still a time of reflection and reckoning. if we are to survive as a nation of laws and democracies, this

can never happen again. amy: the house january 6 committee has issued its final report, accusing donald trump of a multipart conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election saying he lit the fire for the january 6 insurrection. we will speak to john nichols and professor hakeem jeffern. we can't understd why a b of white americans stormed capitol without understanding perceive threats from white identity and what power. it is the most uncomfortable truth in america. amy: then "the quest to defuse guyana's carbon bomb." the efforts to prevent exxon mobil from drilling off the coast of guyana where or than 11 billion barrels of oil have been discovered. >> stop from transformg guyana

from a carbon sink which removes rbon from the atmosphere and turning guyana into a five gigaton carbon bomb. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the house select committee on the january 6 attack has released its final 845-page report on the insurrection at the capitol and donald trump's attempts to overturn the 2020 election. the report finds trump was the central cause of the violence on january 6 and that he or his inner circle engaged in at least 200 apparent acts aimed at overturning state election results. the january 6 committee is recommending congress consider barring trump and others involved in the insurrection from ever holding public office again, citing the 14th amendment. the committee is also calling for reforms to the electoral

college certification process and expanded efforts by the government to combat far-right and white supremacist groups. we'll have more on the january 6 report after headlines. the senate has approved a $1.7 trillion omnibus spending package, setting up a vote in the house of representatives today ahead of a midnight deadline to avoid a government shutdown. the senate bill contains a record $858 billion in military spending and about $772 billion for non-military programs. it earmarks $45 billion in emergency assistance to ukraine. it does not include a child tax credit expansion democrats say would have sharply reduced child poverty and hunger. and it ends a pandemic provision that led to record medicaid enrollment, meaning millions of people will likely be kicked off the public health insurance program this spring.

over 200 million people across the united states are under a winter weather advisory today, with the national weather service warning of a once-in-a-generation cold weather event ahead of the holiday weekend. parts of the midwest have received more than a foot of snow, with millions facing whiteout conditions and life-threatening wind chill advisories. hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses have lost power. so far, more than 5600 flights have been canceled. nearly 10,000 flights have been delayed. in texas, humatarian gups are preparing for freezing weekend temperatures as a growing number of asylum seekers continue to arrive from the u.s.-mexico border. in el paso, hundreds of asylum seekers have been forced to sleep on the streets as shelters

are at capacity. others are still stuck in mexico after the u.s. supreme court put a temporary hold on terminating the trump-era title 42 pandemic policy, used to block over 2 million people from entering the u.s. to seek asylum. across the border in ciudad juarez, mexico, asylum seekers stood in line in freezing winter temperatures, hoping they would be allowed into the u.s. this is crismary rodriguez, a venezuelan national who journey to the u.s.-mexico border with her family. >> we who have families and want to provide for our children cannot enter the united states. we are at christmas. many are sharing with their families. others like us are far from our families and our children are having a hard time. there is december 24 and you don't know where they are going to sleep. amy: arizona's republican governor doug ducey has reached an agreement with the federal

government to dismantle his illegal, makeshift u.s.-mexico border wall built with double-stacked shipping containers and razor wire. ducey's administration has spent over $80 million on the project since august, which he said was needed to fill in the gaps left by former president trump's incomplete border wall. ducey has until january 4 to remove the barrier, one day before he leaves office. to see our coverage of this story, go to democracynow.org. in afghanistan, a group of women took to the streets of kabul wednesday to protest the taliban's ban on women and girls attending universities. taliban forces arrested five protesters and three journalists. some of the women said they were beaten by security force guards also prevented hundreds of women from entering their colleges a day after the ban was announced. this is maryam, a student at

kabul university who was turned away from her campus on wednesday. >> went i got close to the university, i saw taliban humvees blocking the dates and the taliban were behaving so badly, telling us "return to your homes. girls have no right to study anymore." the situation has a very bad impact on every female student. amy: dozens of male university professors have resigned to protest the ban, and some male students reportedly refused to take their exams. meanwhe, a new report finds the u.s. unlawfully failed to compensate foreign workers who suffered injuries or death while working for pentagon troops during the u.s. invasion of afghanistan. tens of thousands of foreign workers from countries including nepal and the philippines supported the u.s. military, working as guards, cooks, and construction workers. in ukraine, a russian-installed

local official in the occupied kherson region has been killed in a car bomb explosion. video posted on social media shows the vehicle containing andrey shtepa and one other person engulfed in flames on thursday. russian news sources blamed the blast on "ukrainian saboteurs." elsewhere, the former head of the russian space agency dmitry rogozin said thursday he was injured by shrapnel and required surgery after ukrainian shells hit a hotel where he was staying in donetsk. elsewhere, ukrainian authorities in the eastern city of kramatorsk say russian missiles flattened an empty boarding school. nearby residents say the attack blew out the windows of their apartments. >> i was on the balcony. there was a massive explosion. i could not tell where it came from. dinner was a second strike.

fire and smoke was over it. full of smoke and ashes. power poles were damaged and the power was out. amy: in moscow, president vladimir putin on thursday used the word "war" to describe russia's invasion of ukraine. it is the first time he has strayed from publicly calling the conflict a "special military operation." >> our goal is not the military conflict but on the contrary, to end this war. this is what we are striving for. amy: putin's remarks follow the rest of anti-war russians who've faced fines and up to 10 years in prison for calling the conflict a "war" instead of a "special military operation." the chilean government has announced plans to open an embassy in the israeli-occupied palestinian territories. chile's president gabriel boric

made the announcement wednesday during a ceremony in the capital santiago hosted by the palestinian community. >> we are going to upgrade chile's operation in palestine. an embassy we will open during our term. to give the representation and to make international rights simply be respected. amy: over 300,000 palestinians are estimated to be living in chile, many with roots in the occupied west bank and bethlehem. the video-sharing platform tiktok revealed some of its workers tracked two reporters who cover the company, gaining access to their ip addresses and user data. one journalist was from the "financial times" and the other wrote for "buzzfeed" and now works for forbes. forbes says at least two more of its reporters were targeted for surveillance, which was undertaken as part of an internal investigation into leaks at the company.

bytedance, the chinese parent company of tiktok, says it did not approve the spying tactics and fired the worker who led the effort. this comes as the senate on thursday passed a provision banning tiktok on most u.s. government devices. some lawmakers have been fighting to ban the hugely popular app altogether amid ongoing tensions between washington and beijing, saying it poses a national security and privacy risk. here in new york, republican congress member-elect george santos has broken his silence over a "new york times" investigation that found he misrepresented key parts of his background and finances. on thursday, santos tweeted, "i have my story to tell and it will be told next week." in the latest revelation of santos' apparent fabrications, the jewish outlet "the forward" reports santos lied about his grandparents fleeing anti-jewish

persecution during world war ii. "the forward" reports genealogy websites show santos' maternal grandparents were born in brazil, not ukraine or belgium, as his campaign website stated. on wednesday, incoming house minority leader hakeem jeffries accused santos of hiding from legitimate questions about his résumé. >> at this moment we need answers from george santos. he appears to be a complete and utter fraud. his whole life story, made up. amy: we will talk more about this after headlines. and charlene alexander mitchell, freedom fighter and fierce defender of civil and human rights, has died at 92. mitchell helped lead the fight to free angela davis and other political prisoners. a member of the communist party, charlene mitchell became the first black woman to run for u.s. president in 1968. she passed away last week here in new york city. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report.

i'm amy goodman. the house select committee on the january 6 attack released its final 845-page report late thursday night on the insurrection at the capitol and donald trump's attempt to overturn the 2020 election. the report states -- "the central cause of january 6 was one man, former president donald trump, who many others followed. none of the events of january 6 would have happened without him." the report goes on to state -- "the select committee estimates in the two months between the november election and the january 6 insurrection, president trump or his inner circle engaged in at least 200 apparent acts of public or private outreach, pressure, or condemnation, targeting either state legislators or state or local election administrators, to overturn state election results."

the report is based on an 18-month investigation that included over 1000 interviews. the house committee is urging congress consider barring trump and other individuals involved in the insurrection from holding public office citing the 14th amendment. the january 6 committee is also calling for reforms to the electoral college certification process and expanded efforts by the government to combat far right and white supremacist groups who played a key role in the january 6 insurrection. the report documents how many of the first rioters to enter the capitol on january 6 were members of the proud boys, three percenters, believers of the qanon conspiracy theories, and other white nationalists. the report was issued thursday night, three days after the house select committee voted to refer donald trump to the justice department for criminal prosecution.

to talk more about the january 6 report, we are joined now by john nichols, the nation's national affairs correspondent. in a very cold wisconsin. welcome to democracy now!, john. >> thank you for having me. amy: it is great to have you with us. why don't you start out by responding to the report. it came out last night about 10:00 eastern. but if you can talk about what you have assessed so far. what most surprised you, what is most significant about it. >> it is a significant report, no question. it is very long. it has an immense amount of detail. i think one of the most striking things is the clarity with which this report says what committee chair bennie thompson is saying since the start of the public hearings, and that is this was a coup attempt and that donald trump was at the center of it.

the report comes back to this again and again and again. i think it is clear to the mecca people but now the department of justice that this is not -- [indiscernible] difficult call to make. not complicated issue. that the information that they drew from their witnesses clearly in the report is that the recommendations they have made, which are way late in the report. you have to go through about 680 pages to get to the recommendations as regard to policy. so much of the focus has been on personality. when you get to policy, it is relatively limited. they do talk about the electoral count act reforms which appear to be moving through congress pretty well at this point. they also talk to importantly about amendment 14 section 3 and

that is the section of the constitution which allows someone who participated in or supported in an insurrection to be barred from holding office. i think one of the most striking things in the report is a clear argument that congress should take steps to clarify [indiscernible] amy: we are going to go to break and come back and clear up your audio. john nichols is the nation's national affairs correspondent.'s recent piece for the magazine is headlined "the january 6 committee just put kevin mccarthy in charge of an investigation into kevin mccarthy." ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "room full of mirrors" performed by the pretenders. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we continue to look at the final report put out by the january 6 select committee saying donald trump is responsible for this insurrection, that without him it would not have taken place. john nichols, actions national correspondent. why don't you take it from where you left off? i want to be clear, in madison, wisconsin, is it true it is 31 degrees below zero fahrenheit? >> that is the windchill. i think the actual below zero is -3 to -5. we have 40 mile-per-hour winds. amy: i want to say we were going to have this very important date john nichols in the studio but even the studio said they were simply going to be closed,

everyone is frozen out. john, this late-breaking story of the report, yes, ever late, it was supposed to be a few days before but it did come out last night. i am sure they were desperately trying to get it out or congress ended for this year, not clear what will happen with the change of house from democratic republican leadership. but continue with what you were saying. >> what i was saying is the report focuses primarily on personalities, on donald trump and the other people. but as you get toward the end of the report, i think 689, they have the recommendations. the recommendations are important because it is policies that, out of this that will ultimately protect us from future incidents like january 6,

2021. what they propose is moving to congress. looks like it may happen. they also proposed taking steps that will allow data much more clarity as regard article 14 section 3 of the constitution which says an office holder who supports an insurrection or is giving comfort, participates in an insurrection, can't be barred from office. they want to give clarity to that so that congress can act on that issue in the future. all of this takes us back to the reality that this congress, particularly the senate, failed back in february 2021 in the impeachment process. had donald trump been convicted by the senate, then we would have had clarity on these issues at that point. because i did not happen, now we have a series of recommendations

which in some ways are sufficient that congress does not think the impeachment process probably will ever work so why have another vehicle to bar those who participate in an insurrection. the final thing aimited -- i will mention in regard to recommendations, and disappointment, the committee did not make a clear statement electoral college should be abolished. the electoral college is the root of a lot of these problems. this convoluted mess of a system which has the votes being counted at a certain point and transferred to congress and all that created the real opening for donald trump and his allies to do the things that they did. i think while abolishing the electoral college would be difficult, it is something that clearly, t committee should have recommended. amy: they did not make recommendations but did not go that far, john. can you make what those -- can you tells what the recommendations are?

>> as regard to the electoral count act, the clarity on 14, 3 and a number of other recommendations, amy, within this list for simply making the processes of congress work more effectively as regard to oversight. so they are a solid set of recommendations but not a bold set of recommendations, in my view. amy: they also dealt with a number of issues. for example, they said the joint chiefs of staff general mark milley said why are we allowing the proud boys and the oathkeepers to be there? this was days before the january 6 protest. but he did not get support in what he had to say. you have cassidy hutchinson and her lawyer -- cassidy hutchinson was sent out of work. she was asked to speak before the committee.

her lawyer was given to her by, she put it, trump world. and he told her that she should simply say, "don't recall." she did that apparently the first time around and she testified before the staff several times. she was question. and then came out and said, "i feel like i am lying." the latest news is seven present tino is on leave from his law firm. many legal experts are saying as a message to other lawyers is if you interfere in this way, this is literally witness tampering and that you can go to jail. >> this report is incredibly detailed. it does look at a lot of the issues as regard to the attempt

by former president trump and his allies to thwart this investigation. you can understand why. at the heart of this report and the heart of what the committee is done are recommendations that trump be prosecuted and that his closest allies be prosecuted. i think they knew from the start of this is where the whole process was headed. they wanted to undermine and weaken the process. the report goes into a lot of detail on that. some of that may well turn out to be significant as regard to future prosecutions and future actions by the justice department. but i would counsel, the significant aspect to this that we should be conscious of. this report is really a roadmap. it is a roadmap into regards to what the justice department might do and also a roadmap as to what congress might do. it is not a certainty by any means. there is still a lot of open areas and open questions within

the report that effectively the committee says, well, the department of justice is going to have to go deeper on this. ey're going to have to explore and ask more questions. people should be cautious about simply because this report has been released with this recommendation to the department of justice and to congress, assuming that we are necessarily going to have a true moment of accountability. i keep coming back to this point. the moment of accountability should have been back with impeachment in a february 2021. you and i talked a lot about impeachment for that. i remember i was in madison on january 6 when things occurred. because i had written so much about impeachment, my phone started ringing off the hook. i believed for a few days that it was possible we would have accountability moment as it was intended. instead what we ended up with is

this long, very slow process of trying to find a route to accountability. i would emphasize, we are still not there. amy: talk about kevin mccarthy. >> well, kevin mccarthy is obviously in this report in a significant way. they describe how he sought to thwart the committees work initially and they also talk about how he refused to cooperate with the committee. there has been a recommendation to the house ethics committee that they examine kevin mccarthy 's actions for potential penalties. the problem with that is this report comes so late in the current congress that any action on it will take place in the next congress. the next congress will likely be led by kevin mccarthy. he will that went the five republican members of the ethics committee, one of whom will serve as chair of the committee. so we end up with a situation where kevin mccarthy is

effectively overseeing his own oversight. it is really one of the masses with regards to how the house ethics committee works. amy: we're going to step aside from the january 6 report for a moment to talk about george santos. he is the new congressmember-elect from long island, republican, it would be the first openly gay congressman if he is even telling the truth about that. because so much we do not know about who this man is, including possibly his name. he just put out on twitter "i will have my story to tell. i will tell it next week." this is the latest news that we have come a revelation of santos apparent fabrications, jewish forward reporting santos lied about his grandparents fleeing anti--jewish persecution during the war.

on wednesday, the incoming house minority leader accused --hakeem jefferson iq santos from hiding about legitimate questions on his resume. to be clear, that is the latest revelation of what wasn't true. also what is not true is he said he presided over a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, animal rescue group. the irs says they have no record of that group, friends of pets united. he said he graduated from peru college and the college said they have no record of him. also that he worked at citigroup and goldman sachs and both said they have no record of him there. it is not even clear we know what his real name is, john nichols. and this is the second time he has run. the first time he won. he was also at the january 6 insurrection in washington. >> you are putting a lot on the

table here. all of it points to a really significant issue with this representative-elect. first off, this is a big deal because republican majority in the house of representatives is so narrow, so small that if santos -- decides not to take his seat, is in some way forced not to take a seat or whatever, that would office the require a lot of congress by action, then you reduce the republican majority. it is a big deal toward the governance of the country in the coming term. but in regards to santos, the thing that is important here, immense amount of focus on the man and his difficulties with the truth. what is troublesome to me is this story is being told now. this is someone who has run for congress twice. who has run for congress and been elected in the biggest

media center in the world. new york city and surrounding new york city where you have all sorts of media outlets and yet he was not properly vetted. it really speaks to the collapse of political journalism in the 21st century. there's a lot of coverage to washington but there is too little coverage of what is happening down at the congressional district level and in our communities across the country. in my view, it is a collapse of journalism story. amy: the latest was annexed was a in "the new york times" of man he ran against him said he was continually raising issues on the campaign trail. john nichols, the nation's national affairs correspondent, speaking to us from an extremely cold madison, wisconsin. we will link to your piece "the january 6 committee just put kevin mccarthy in charge of an investigation into kevin mccarthy." this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we continue to look at the new

january 6 report which details how white supremacist groups played a key role in the insurrection but the report says little about the role of racism and it would happen. in fact, the word "racism" appears only once in the report. the committee chair bennie thompson writes in his introduction -- "i believe most americans will turn their backs on those enemies of democracy. but some will rally to the side of the election deniers, and when i think about who some of those people are, it troubles me deep inside. white supremacists. violent extremists. groups that subscribe to racism, anti-semitism, and violent conspiracy theories. those who would march through the halls of the capitol waving the confederate battle flag." to talk more about the january 6 report, we are joined by hakeem jefferson, an assistant professor at stanford university and a faculty affiliate there with the center for comparative study in race and ethnicity and

the center for democracy, development and the rule of law. we welcome you to democracy now! it is great to have you with this, professor jefferson. talk about what you feel has not been adequately addressed here when it comes to donald trump's leading the insurrection and the insurrection in south. >> thank you so much for having me, amy. it is an honor to be here. i wrote my initial piece about january 6 the day of the insurrection and i wrote that piece because i worried so much that what would get lost in the shuffle come as we talked about the spectacular event, was the role of race and racism. it is striking the image of vinny thompson as the chair of the january 6 committee, a southern black man leading the charge to investigate the insurrection. and it is not surprising that it is in his opening remarks of the

report that we see the word "racism" emerge. we see him telling the story about an insurrection that has far deeper roots and simply the fact that donald trump wanted to hold on to power. what i worried would get lost and at the shuffle and what i think enough people have not attended to is how much the insurrection reflects the deep resentment and this sort of long-standing reason that so many white americans have when they worry and are anxious about what they perceive to be a precarious hold on power. put simply, those who storm the capitol come as i wrote the day of the insurrection, they did not come merely in defense of donald trump, they came in defense of white supremacy and white americans question

freehold on power and a hold on power that is not in competition with other racial groups. amy: professor jefferson, we're speaking to you actually in sumter, south carolina. bennie thompson represents mississippi, the committee chair. if you can talk more about who these groups are -- i just ask john nichols about the chair of the joint chiefs of staff mark milley saying he was saying, why are these guys, the proud boys, why are the oathkeepers, why are they even allowed to be there? also, there was word that many people were armed. if you could comment on this? >> yeah, these are far right extremist groups. the proud boys, sort of outwardly say they are not a white supremacist group.

they have engaged, however, in activities that align with white supremacists and white nationalists ideologies. these are groups that hold a kind of mental, positional masculinity. they wield the kind of conservatism and traditionalism that hold up the mantle of western values. these are groups -- you don't need a phd to understand their ideologies. these are groups that are really ok with the kind of racial hierarchy in this country, what to sustain a kind of hierarchy where white men are empowered. and donald trump embodies the values of these groups. you will recall he said "stand down and stand by" to thes groups. he made no secret of his at least tacit aegiance with the

ideologies that these groups practice. when january 6 comes, it is no surprise leading theharge -- and i mean that literally, leing the charge -to obstru democracy or members of these groups who had planned for some time and reddit groups and other dark places of the internet had planned the insurrection, had talked about violence and talked about killing nancy pelosi and mike pence if he did not do his duty that day as they saw fit. so these are groups who had long held ideologies of the insurrection led the charge and who if not for luck that we had that day would have carried out i think even more violence in service of protecting and defending donald trump's legacy but also holding up the mantle of white supremacy and white

nationalism. amy: you talk about bennie thompson being chair of the select committee that is trying to hold president trump to account. bennie thompson of mississippi, who often requotes the late great john lewis talking about good trouble versus donald trump. >> amy, it is such a visual -- a striking visual to see and what is one of the most powerful committees that the congreshas ever had, this southern black man who speaks with southern drawl, who can talk about racism not merely because he studied it but because he lived it in the american south. and to have him lead this committee where race and racism were at the four is only because we were forced to engage with the real power and politics of

bennie thompson and imposing soft-spoken black and who i think will go down in the history books as having led a committee that did really important work. i am, as you noted, currently in sumter, south carolina come a place that has its own racial history. i think bennie thompson brought that history within the history of race and racism and the american south to his duties as chair of this committee. as i noted earlier, it is not striking the one time -- it is not surprising, i should say, the one time that racism is mentioned in the report is by bennie thompson. a person who saw, i think, donald trump for exactly who he is, a political elite, showered and a privilege, showered in sense of entitlement

, and showered in a sense of whiteness and white supremacy, since that people like him should wield power in this country. and i don't think that was lost on bennithompson and i think that comes throu rather clearly in those rarks you shared with us from his opening comments in the report. amy: you are a professor. how do you want this historical moment to be remembered and to be taught and what you want to come out of this with now the house committee referring criminal charges against donald trump to the justice department? >> i think the desire reflect on this moment and what i told my students and as i have written elsewhere is that we would be missing something really important if what we left this moment with was just a sense of this really spectacular event

happened on january 6. that it was something unique that happened that day. instead, i think what we should take from this moment is something that i wrote with victor ray at 538 which is the moments of progress in this country are often met with moments of backlash. backlash, white backlash in particular, is a racial reckoning too, as victor and i wrote. i think what i want people to leave this moment inking about is, what are those other instances of racial backlash that we have experiencedn this country or are experiencing in this country? republican attacks on the right to vote, a racial backlash. the kind of racial violence that we have seen in corners across the country. that is a racial backlash, too. the sort of daily workings against democracy, particularly

those advanced i the republican party. we should see those and had the same vein we see the spectacular attacks on january 6. this is a racial backlash. this is about a racial ordering in a racial hierarchy. it is about power. it is about the maintenance of group status. it is about the defense of whiteness. and that has a long line in american history that comes in spectacular form on january 6, that manifests and more maintain andrew kony and ways every day -- draconian ways in american life was of that is a moment that should not be lost on any of us. amy: hakeem jefferson, thank you for being with us, an assistant professor at stanford university and a faculty affiliate there with the center for comparative studin race and ethnicity and the center for democracy, development and the rule of law. speaking to us from sumter, south carolina. coming up, the "the january 6

committee just put kevin mccarthy in charge of an investigation into kevin mccarthy." we will look at efforts to prevent exxon mobil from drilling off the shore of guyana were more than 11 billion barrels of oil have been discovered. back in 30 seconds. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "burning" by yeah yeah yeahs. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we end today's show looking at the "quest to defuse guyana's carbon bomb." that's the title of a new piece in "wired magazine" by investigative journalist antonia juhasz which details an effort to block exxonmobil from drilling off the shore of guyana, where more than 11 billion barrels of oil have been discovered. guyana is a coastal nation on the north atlantic coast of south america. it shares a border with venezuela, brazil, and suriname. critics of the plan say the drilling could be a disaster for guyana and the world as the climate emergency intensifies.

today, guyana is considered to be a carbon sink thanks to its dense rain forests and low emissions. but if exxon has its way, guyana could soon become what's known as a carbon bomb. we are joined by two guests. melinda janki is a guyanese environmental lawyer based in georgetown, guyana. she helped draft many of guyana's national environmental laws, including the environment protection act. she filed a landmark lawsuit against exxon and the guyanese government in may 2021 to stop the offshore oil drilling. we are also joined by longtime award-winning investigative journalist antonia juhasz, author of "the quest to defuse guyana's carbon bomb." antonia, talk about why you felt this was so important to bring to the world. >> thank you, amy, thank you for having me. good morning to melinda janki in georgetown. this is such a critically

important case, landmark lawsuit that melinda has launched against exxon's operations in guyana. these are brain operations. exxon started producing them and 2019 making guyana one of the few countries in the world when the rest of the world or much of the world is trying to get off the fossil fuels, guyana is one of the few countries entering a new into the fossil fuel era in a big way. if exxon has any say in a. exxon was to produce one million barrels of oil a day offshore guyana and that would make guyana a single largest source of daily oil production anywhere in the world. 2030 is also the year that much of coastal guyana, georgetown where melinda is joining us from and where the coastal area where 90% of the population lives, is expected to be underwater because of the unchecked advance of the climate crisis. what melinda has done, and she

will talk about it, is launch an historic climate and human rights lawsuit to stop those operations i'm hopefully to try to stop them before they advanced to far. as you say, become one of the world's leading potential carbon bombs. operations that are capable of releasing so many emissions that they are disasters of a gigaton emissions to the global climate and to guyana itself. these operations are also critically important to exxon. it is hard to overstate how important they are to exxon. which is also why this lawsuit is so important to be coming from the global south, 70% of climate lawsuits are from the u.s., 90% from the global north. have a country that is experiencing some of the worst impacts of climate change about to become one of the largest energy producers also launched this historic lawsuit that could become a precedent to stop those

operations come is so important that i wanted to help bring the story to a broader audience. amy: let's go to melinda janki, the guyanese international environmental lawyer based in georgetown, guyana. you have drafted many of guyana 's national environment a laws, including the environment protection act of 1996. now you are suing guyana and exxon mobil. talk about why you launched this suit last year, what it means currently that guyana is a carbon sink, and what this would do to your country. >> thank you very much. it is an honor to be on your program. warm greetings to you and your audience around thworld. this lawit was launched last year essentially to challenge the fossil fuel buildout offshore guyana. we argue it is unconstitutional because it violates th

constitutional rights to a healthy environment. this is a very differe sort of case because we are treating climate change as a symptom. we're going right to the heart of the problem. we are saying fossil fuels produce greenhouse gas and greenhouse gas pollutions the problethat is causi climate change, ring sea levelshich will have a devastating impact on the cital city georgetown and fossil fuel, the greenhouse gas -- pollution is also making the ocean more acid. we are a coastal nation. we are already seeing an impact. we once had a very viable shrimp industry. now when you go into the shops, you are buying shrimp from places like vietnam. we argue what is happening here is destroying the right to a

healthy environment. amy: in the environmental protection act that you pushed to establish, the concept of natural capital. what does that mn, melinda? >> it is very simple. traditionally, economists treat the natural world as if it has no value. say for example, standing forest is considered to be worthless. but if you cut it down and turn it into logs, that economists will tell you now you have something that has value. natural capital does the exact opposite. it says the forest has a value in itself most of course, this makes sense. we can't live without the natural world. i lobbied very hard sometime ago for a change to e constituon, which is in there in article 36, which actually states preserving clean air, fertile soil, pure water, and the rich diversity of planes and

animals and ecosystems. that is what the welbeing of the nation depends . d that is critical because at the end of the day, we're not going to eat oil, we're not going to drink oil. our survival as people -- our survival as a species depends on the natural world. and that is one of the reasons that it has to be taken into account and it has to have the value as a pushback against this crazy mentality that the tural world has no value until you convert it to numbers in a spreadsheet. amy: so that guarantee, the right to a healthy environment for present and future generations, you have pushed for in the constitution. it is in the constitution, it is enshrined there. so what has been guyana's response to the lawsuit, not to

mention exxon mobil? you have sued them both. >> so the government's response has en to say roughly that the constitution does provide sustainable development and guyana has a right tdevelop and they have inted out that guyana has been a mini school, very tiny contributor to climate change. the case is originally against the attorney general, the representative of e state. were saying the state is violating a right to a healthy enronment. that is the basis of the case. the judge, ding exxon mobil to the case, and exxon's approach is to say that the ma testimony should be struck out because in that testimony by dr., one of the litigants, he sets out the ampex a greenhouse gas pollution on the

environmen so climate change, rising sea level, warmer ocean, etc. al of these things, which i'm sure the audience is extremely family or with. exxon mobisays these things are not facts but matters of scientific opinion and that since dr. thomas is not a scientific expert, he cannot make those statements and they have applied to strike out his testimony. we have responded by filing an affidavit saying the impacts the fossil fuels, the impact of greenhouse gas pollution is so well-known that it is no longer capable of being disputed. amy: and can you talk about the world bank? the involvement of the world bank in guyana in the pruction of fossil fuels, melinda janki? >> yes. the world bank has been very strongly in favor of guyana

converting -- true producing fossil fuels. the world bank in fact in the 1980's was behind the legislation that established the petroleum legislation. the world bank has lent money to guyana to geteady for fossil fu production. the arrangement between the world nk and guyana w illegal because it was made with someone who was not the finance minister at the time because the government had lost undercover's motion, sohere were no ministers. nevertheless, the world bank went ahead and signed the agreements and advanced the money. the world bank project with ferral knowledge -- with the full knowlge of the world make hard lawyers that represent exxon mobil to alter guyana's laws including the world bank

wanted to smantle the terminal protection act. they said it was out of date. this is legislation which requires -- requires companies to state the impact of their action on all aspects of the environment, including the climate, the atmosphere, and the ocean. how eth can the world bank have anyredibility this is out of date and it was done at a time when we know that the fossil fuel industry was lying about the impacts on climate change these provisionsere put into thlegislation in 1996. yes, they were drafted by me. the result of that is all of the companies in guyana, all oil companies and in particular exxon mobil, have to say what i the impa of their scope one, scope to come and scope three emisons and that perhaps is what the world bank is upset about. the world bank is offering --

also encouraginguyana to do gas and take gas and convert guyana to gas instead renewable ergy. we have a serious problem at the moment because exxon mobil is flingillions of cubic feet. they say it is because they argue -- the equipment. the guyana gernment is oposing to take that gas and use ifor energy. and because this is not financially viable, the guyana government is hoping that the u.s. bank will lend the mon to enable them to do it and all of this is been done, of course, with the encouragement of the world bank andt is cometely contrary to the world bank's own policy, contrary to thearis agreement which says financing fls should be aligned with the paris agreements in keeping the tempature below 1.5, and we

would argue that it is also incompatible with national law r the guyana government to do this on manyifferent realms. not simply the violation of the right to a healthy environment. amy: let me ask antonia juhasz, could guyana cope with a massive oil spill at the one triggered by the bp deepwater horizon in the gulf of mexico? you wrote the book "like tide: the devastating impact of the gulf will still." it is so interesting to be talking to you both about this now as the people of the united states, to say the least, are experiencing what is being called a climate bomb, a once-in-a-generation cold -- level of cold and snow that has not been experienced here in a long time. >> while melinda wrote incredibly good environmental provisions into guyana's laws

and constitution, guyana does not have anything close to the capacity to regulate and oversee deepwater highlight technical offshore drilling. the united states did not have the capacity to do it. we have the worst offshore oil spill and guyana deafly does not have the capacity to do it. we hope and pray nothing at that scale happens. if it does, the devastation would be extreme, just as it was off the u.s. gulf coast. it adding to what melinda said, one of the many important things validity it was put into place the right to a healthy environment, guarantee for correct and future generations. amy: three seconds. >> and how the world has the opportunity to implement that right and what exxon really does not want is for us to regulate and hold them to account for all of their emissions from the production to consumption of emissions and that is her

biggest fear with this case is that that is what they will be held to. we can all support melinda in hoping that outcome comes to pass. amy: we want to thank you both for being with us. we will continue to follow this story. investigative journalist antonia juhasz and melinda janki. xxxxxúó>ñz■0