01/09/23 01/09/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> i am going to return to brasília now. i will visit three sites that were damaged. be sure this will not be repeated, to discover who finance this and they will have to pay the price under the law. amy: more than 400 people have been arrested in brazil after supporters of former president jair bolsonaro stormed the

brazilian congress, supreme court, and presidential palace in a scene reminiscent of the january 6 insurrection at the u.s. capitol. brazil's new president lula has vowed to investigate and prosecute those took part in what is being called an attempted coup. we will go to brazil for the latest. it would look at joe biden's first tripo the u.s.-mexico border as presiden >> we are really hoping this turnf events [iiscernible] to welcome people with dignity. amy: and harvard university is facing condemnation after rescinding a fellowship to kenneth roth, the farmer had of human rights watch, over the groups criticism of israel's human rights record. we will get the latest. all that and more, coming up.

welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in brazil, supporters of far-right former president jair bolsonaro stormed the congress, supreme court, and presidential palace in the capital brasília sunday. police arrested over 400 of the rioters as they cleared them from the government buildings after they trashed offices, broke windows, destroyed computer equipment. the attack came one week after the inauguration of returning president luiz inácio lula da silva who spoke following the attack. >> all those people who did this will be found and punished. they will realize that democracy guarantees the right of freedom and also demands that people respect the institution's credit to strengthedemocracy. these people, these vandals, what can we say? they are fanatical nazis.

they did what has never been done in this country. amy: bolsonaro supporters have refused to accept his election loss and bolsonaro never formally conceded, instead leaving brazil for florida as some u.s. lawmakers are now calling for him to be extradited. brazil's supreme court ordered all pro-bolsonaro protest camps around the country to be dismantled within 24 hours, for roadblocks to be lifted, and for police to arrest any protesters defying the orders. the court also suspended the governor of brasília as security flaws around the government buildings are investigated. as nations around the world condemned the attack, the day's events drew immediate comparisons to the january 6 capitol insurrection in washington, d.c. we'll go to brazil for the latest after headlines. in el paso, texas, president biden visited the u.s.-mexico border sunday for the first time since taking office two years ago. biden briefly toured a migrant

shelter where he did not meet with any migrants because apparently none were there at the time. the president instead met with border patrol agents, congressmembers, and local officials, including texas republican governor greg abbott, who continues to intensify his anti-immigrant hate speech. abbott handed biden a letter with a list of demands on border enforcement. biden's trip to el paso came just days after announcing another extension of the trump-era title 42 pandemic policy to block haitian, cuban, and nicaraguan migrants apprehended in the southern border from seeking asylum. we'll have more on this story later in the broadcast. california republican kevin mccarthy was elected speaker of the house of representatives in the early hours of saturday morning after a historic 15 rounds of voting. mccarthy was forced to make a flurry of concessions to the hard right faction of the

republican party, which will hold significant power in the new congress. one of the most dramatic moments in the drawn-out process came during the 14th round of voting friday when congressmember matt gaetz refused to vote for mccarthy, instead voting "present," leaving the embattled republican leader one vote short of a victory and prompting an angry congressmember mike rogers of alabama to yell and lunge at gaetz before he was restrained by north carolina congress member richard hudson who put his hand over rogers' map. mccarthy was eventually elected on the 15th ballot with 216 votes to 212 for democratic leader hakeem jeffries. six republicans did not vote for mccarthy, instead casting "present" votes, which was enough to secure mccarthy's victory. after the four-day saga wrapped up, mccarthy credited former president trump with helping him clinch the speakership. >> but i do want to especially thank president trump.

i don't think anybody should doubt his influence. he was with me from the beginning. he was all in. amy: mccarthy's election also meant the house was finally able to swear in lawmakers saturday. they included new york republican george santos, who is being investigated over his finances and for completely fabricating large portions of his resumé and his life history. before taking his oath of office, santos was seen making a hand gesture that many have called out as a white supremacist symbol during the 10th round of voting for house speaker. new york democrat jamaal bowman tweeted -- "we've all been laughing at santos for lying his way to congress. this time it ain't funny. he and every other white supremacist in congress need to be expelled immediately." as house members prepare to vote on a new rules package today, some republicans say they will withhold their vote unless full

details are shared of the concessions made by mccarthy to the far-right lawmakers. some of the known deals include allowing a single republican lawmaker to force a motion to vacate mccarthy's position as speaker and a provision allowing lawmakers to propose amendments to appropriations bills that could defund programs republicans oppose. the rules package would also gut the office of congressional ethics, barring it from hiring new staffers while retroactively imposing term limits on members of its board, which would remove three of four democrats. republicans also plan to eliminate labor unions of congressional staffers after the congressional workers union negotiated its first-ever contract just last month. china lifted nearly all its travel restrictions sunday after three years of relative isolation since the start of the covid pandemic. incoming travelers no longer need to quarantine upon arrival.

china also opened its land and sea borders with hong kong as tens of thousands of people streamed to and from the mainland. >> i am so happy, so excited. i have not seen my parents for many years. my parents are not in good health and i could not go back to see them, even when i had colon cancer. i am happy to go back and see them now. amy: this comes amid a massive coronavirus surge in china since the rollback of its zero-covid policy. the recent spike in deaths of celebrities and public figures has sowed further doubt about the reliability of official covid reports, even as their causes of death have not been confirmed. 40-year-old opera singer chu lanlan and screenwriter ni zhen, who wrote the acclaimed film "raise the red lantern," are among the recently deceased. the u.n. and others have called out beijing for underrepresenting the country's

true covid death toll after it stopped publishing daily data. iran has executed two more men in connection with the ongoing nationwide uprising, sparked by the september death of mahsa amini while in custody of iran's so-called morality police. one of the men was 22-year-old mohammad mehdi karami, an iranian-kurdish karate champion. the other, 39-year-old factory worker sayed mohammad hosseini. there have been four known executions linked to the protest movement, with at least nine other prisoners sentenced the death. on thursday, authorities arrested reporter mehdi beik, who has interviewed the families of death row prisoners. meanwhile, iran released prominent actress taraneh alidoosti last week, star of the oscar-winning film "the salesman." she was detained after voicing support for the protests. in kenya, a prominent lgbtq activist, edwin chiloba, was

found murdered and left in a metal box by a roadside near the town of eldoret. four suspects have been arrested. same-sex intercourse is punishable in kenya by up to 14 years in prison and discrimination against the lgbtq community is still widespread. edwin chiloba's sister spoke out after her brother's body was found. >> he told me this wou be the greatest year for him. i did not know he was going to get killed. i am really shocked. for those people who did it, i pray for justice. he was a boy with dreams. amy: in climate news, a new report finds human activity is causing utah's great salt lake to shrink far faster than previously believed, a without dramatic cuts to water consumption in the american west, the lake could disappear entirely in the next five years. since 2020, the lake has lost 40 billion gallons of water each

year and now holds just 37% of its normal volume. it's currently about 4 degrees fahrenheit warmer than it was in the early 1900's. researchers warn the dry lake bed threatens to expose millions of people to toxic dust that could increase rates of asthma, heart disease, and other ailments. here in new york, over 7000 nurses went on strike early this cash today after failing to reach a new contract agreement with mount sinai hospital and montefiore medical center. nurses are demanding higher wages, a stop to benefit cuts, and for more staff to be hired to treat a growing number of patients. the nurses are also denouncing the inhumane treatment of patients as some have been forced to receive medical care in hospital hallways due to overcrowding. in a statement, the new york state nurses association urged people to continue seeking the care they need, writing -- "we appreciate solidarity from our patients -- but going into the hospital to get the care you need is not crossing our strike line. we are out here so we can provide better patient care to

you!" and in florida, the descendants of black people who survived racial violence in the town of rosewood gathered over the weekend to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the massacre. over the course of several days in january 1923, a white mob razed the homes of black families, murdering at least six people, forcing many others to flee. many eyewitnesses said the true death toll was far higher. the violence began after a white woman accused a black man of assault. in 1994, florida lawmakers approved $2 million in compensation for nine survivors and dozens of descendants of the attack. according to the southern poverty law center, they were the only government reparations ever paid to victims of anti-black racial violence in the united states. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we begin today's show in brazil

where thousands of supporters of the former far right president jair bolsonaro stormed the brazilian congress, supreme court, and presidential palace sunday in a scene reminiscent of the january 6 insurrection at the u.s. capitol. the rioters, many dressed in green and yellow, the colors of the brazilian flag, smashed windows, ransacked offices, and even setting fire to a carpet inside the congress building. authorities eventually regained control of the buildings and made over 400 arrests. this all came one week after the inauguration of president luiz inácio lula da silva who defeated bolsonaro in october. bolsonaro has never formally conceded the race. just last week, a few days before lula's inauguration, he fled to florida where he has reportedly met with donald trump at mar-a-lago. over the past two months bolsonaro's supporters have

blockaded highways and set up protest encampments outside military bases and in the capital to protest what they falsely claim was a rigged election. lula, who was not in the capital at the time, condemned sunday's attempt to overthrow his government by what he calls fanatical fascists. >> i'm going to return to brasília now. i'm going to visit the three sites that were damaged. be sure this will not be repeated. to discover who finance this, who paid for their stay, and they will have to pay the price under the law. like true vandals, destroying what they found in front of them, we think there was a lack of security and i want to tell you that. all those people who do this will be found and punished. democracy guarantees the right to freedom of speech but it demands people respect the institutions crated to strengthen democracy. these people, these vandals, what can we say? they are fanatical nazis,

fanatical fascists. they have done what has never been done in this country. amy: jair bolsonaro responded to the attempted coup by writing on twitter, "peaceful demonstrations within the law are part of democracy but invasions of public buildings like we saw today, like the acts done by the left in 2013 and 2017 are not within the rules." we are joined now by two guess. michael fox is a freelance journalist, former editor of nacla and host of the new podcast "brazil on fire." the podcast is a joint project of nacla and the real news network. thiago amparo is a professor of international law and human rights. he is also a columnist for the -- well, you can pronounce it for me so i don't pronounce it wrong, professor. >> the folha de s.paulo. the main newspaper of brazil.

amy: thank you for being with us. professor, let's begin with you. what happened in brasília, the capital of brazil, yesterday? >> thank you for having me. what happened yesterday was something unprecedented in our history. what happened was the invasion of the presidential palace, the house of congress, and also the fourthloor. what happened was a massive invaon of those buildings, physical destruction of the buildings, of the whole floor of the supreme court was destroyed. this began days before that over the weekend, several buses -- join the protesters that were camping outside the headquarters

of the army in brasília. where there for many months. but since saturday and friday, several people joined the protest and joined the invaders. and then it became -- roughly from a protest to a massive invasion. that is what happened in brazil yesterday. amy: you have said this is far bigger than the u.s. january 6 insurrection. explain. >> there are several parallels because of the day and one fact checking agency yesterday said even the hashtag people were using was inspired by the january 6 in the united states. so there are parallels but on the other hand, this was much

bigger. if it was the united states, it would be like people were invading not only the capitol, and congress, but also the white house and also the fourth floor and weaving it all destroyed. -- and leaving it all destroyed. secondly, in the united states they were trying to prevent the certification of the election of joe biden. in brazil, lula was already certified and is already the president of brazil. so what is the goal of the invaders? what they were trying to do was -- overthrow the power of the president, lula. the goal they had and also the

scale of what happened yesterday, i would say is even bigger than what happened january 6 in the united states. amy: and the significance of bolsonaro not being there, though there called -- having fled or you could say float out of the country, a few days before lula's inauguration instead of showing the peaceful transfer of power, he flew to orlando and apparently has since met with trump stock is known as the trump of the tropics. >> yeah. part of the strategy. during the whole presidency, not just the election cycle, bolsonaro spread fake news about the electoral system and said -- it was very clear [indiscernible]

it was clear to the last days of his presidency, he was not [indiscernible] after the election results, he went silent. a few days before, traditional -- mandate usually january 1 of the new president's office. he went before to the united states and stayed there. one thing that happened yesterday, responsible first of the security --

during the process yesterday, invasion yesteay, he was in the united states as well on vacation. he is very clear that bolsonaro was -- not saying he lost election, for many years [indiscernible] thank news. were clearly motivated by his record -- trying to fight against fake news during the election cycle. amy: i'm looking at a piece in the daily beast, michael fox, that quotes steve bannon, president trump's advisor, who wrote sunday, "brazilian freedom fighters" is what he called those that are supporting bolsonaro and have laid siege to the congress, to the supreme

court, to the presidential palace in resilient. can you talk about who is supporting theseioters in the united states? >> the connection between bolsonaro, trump, far right trump supporters, and steve bannon. the connection between steve bannon and the bolnaro family runs back to even before bolsonaro won back in 2018 first got in contact with steve bannon. supposedly helping bolsonaro on the campaign trail in 2018. and while bolsonaro is the head of steve bannon's national far right group to try to foment what is happening in brazil right now, across latin america. we saw this after the first and second round of the elections. steve bannon came out just the day after and talking about fraud, electoral machines, spewing the same information in a big conference in the u.s. talking about how bolsonaro was

going to win if it were not for the fraud. absolutely, steve bannon and his network have been absolutely backing bolsonaro and trying to foment exactly what we saw today. and the connections between january 6, january 8, it is so symbolic. amy: you also have one of the january 6 right organizers allie alexander lauding the insurrectionists in brazil, writing on donald trump truth social plat from. so what do people like steve bannon and alexander support bolsonaro and the activists who are destroying parts of the presidential palace, the capitol, the supreme court? what does it matter? how much power do they have? >> it matters, amy, because it is not just steve bannon.

he is part of this much larger far right network and people arcs sharing experiences -- people are sharing experiences and this is what y need to do, this is how we will make it happen. this is a copycat situation. he had january 6 -- they're trying to export this around the world. he is trump of the tropics because he embraced everything that trump is and was. he pushed fascist ideology, lies. basically everything that trump was trying to stir his people up, conspiracy theories. bolsonaro was doing the same thing. talking about the parallels between the u.s. and brazil runs so deep. the same idea of this culture war into brazil, of course it happen automatically -- the evangelical movement. i talk a lot about this in my podcast brazil on fire and these deep connections and how these are being exported are brought

on purpose and embraced by bolsonaro in a far right imagery. what is concerning here and a great difference between january 6 and the situation january 8 is the role of the military and the power of the military historically in brazil, the imagery of the dictatorship -- not long ago brazil had to dictatorship and only in 1985, many people in the streets just yesterday they looked back to that as a time of great wealth. they enjoyed the dictatorship. they fought dictatorship, which is something bolsonaro has bought since he came into office. the role these players are playing that trump and steve bannon and his allies are playing in the united states and the great impact this can have a broad. amy: professor, if you can talk about what you see is now going to happen? you have the supreme court

saying all the bolsonaro encampments have to be taken down within 24 hours, which at the time of this broadcast is just a few hours from now. what about the role of the military and lula calling out the military to deal with these protesters? >> i think the main challenge here is there are exclusive challenges because the army officials -- and just for the viewers to understand, for the past month, there are a lot of people camping outside the headquarters of the army in brazil asking for military intervention and things like this. so these people were outside the army and the army was resisting any kind of forceful way of removing people from those camps . the camps are military areas

that should not have gatherings of civilians outside of those areas. so there is a challenge because army officials are resisting any kind of intervention by the police and by the authorities in those areas. so just yesterday after the decision of the supreme court, in the middle of the chaos, they decided he camps should be taken down. the first reaction of the army in resilient was not allow the people to enter the area. to do their job, which was to remove people from outside of the camps. a lot of invaders that were in the capitol, that were attacking the building, they went back to the camps and they were allowed to stay in the camps. so there was tension between police come the security forces, and army officials.

there is a challenge on the ground there. it also -- one thing the supreme court is trying to do now is to see who pays for it so they can follow the money in terms of -- who paid for the buses? the supreme court decision, who financed this. there is a question not only of removing people from the military areas to not allow the chemist to happen again for security reasons, but also -- encampments to happen again particular reasons, but also responsibility people on the ground. more than 100 people were arrested yesterday. but also people who financed and coordinated these types of

events. lawmakers calling -- there is a lot of discussion of what will happen with the camps but also who financed it and corrugated this kind of event. amy: michael fox, do you think the military could side against lula? >> i don't think the military is going to side against lula. there are sectors of the military that like bolsonaro, would like to stay in connection with bolsonaro. but the military would lose so much clout. 40 years since the end of the dictatorship and they just don't want to go down that road. amy: i want to thank you both for being with us. michael fox is a freelance journalist with the podcast "brazil on fire." and professor thiago amparo professor of international law , and human rights at fundação getulio vargas.

speaking to us from some follow. -- sao paulo. next up, we look at president biden's first trip to the u.s.-mexico border as president. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. president biden is in mexico city for the north american leaders' summit with mexican president andrés manuel lópez obrador and canadian prime minister justin trudeau.

this comes after he announced thursday the united states will start to block migrantfrom haiti, nicaragua, venezuela, and cuba from applying for asylum if they're apprehended crossing the u.s.-mexico border. the move is an expansion of the contested trump-era title 42 pandemic policy set to be reviewed by the u.s. supreme court. after the announcement, agents on friday expelled dozens of venezuelan migrants to ciudad juarez, in mexico, across from the u.s. city of el paso. this is venezuelan migrant jonatan tovar. >> it does not matter where they do porting. i will return because i want the well-being of my children, for them to be able to study and have the education i never had. i want the president of the united states to give me opportunities here. amy: before biden went to mexico, he visited el paso, which is one of the country's busiest border crossings. and his first visit to the

border since taking office two years ago, ahead of his arrival, border agents and police arrested migrants sleeping outside the sacred heart catholic church shelter. state troopers have patrolled el paso's streets since the city issued a disaster declaration last month to address hundreds of asylum seekers and refugees needing assistance. during biden's four-hour visit to el paso, he visited a border crossing and walked along a metal border fence, stopped by the el paso county migrant services center but reportedly did not meet with any migrants. for more, we are joined by two guests. guerline jozef, executive director of haitian bridge alliance, an immigrant-advocacy organization that provides humanitarian assistance to haitians and other black immigrants from the caribbean and africa. and in el paso, we are joined by fernando garcia, executive director of the el-paso, texas-based border network for human rights. we welcome you both back to democracy now!

fernando, let's begin with you. can you describe this first time visit of president joe biden to the border since he came into office, who he met with, and significantly, who he did not meet with? >> hi, amy. good morning. there's a big level of disappointment in the el paso region, not only to communities but ngo's, not because it was a short visit -- i think the visit lasted less than three hours -- but also the context with which it happened. there is an announcement -- he is expanding title 42 to nicaragua, cuba, and haitians,

along with venezuela. he did not meet with any of the impacted communities. they are eager to have a solution. hundreds of families are waiting for some kind of answers for a process of asylum or refuge. that didot happen. so i think there is a level of frustration, outrage by the fact the president promised a different approach to immigration and enforcement and now he is using trump strategies to keep expelling people. nobody is happy here in el paso. and you make of the administration said even though he was in this refugee relief center, there did not happen to be any refugees there at the time. talk about the crisis at the

border right now and his emphasis, which he said he was going to emphasize before, on law enforcement as opposed to the kind of work that you do helping people and meeting -- well, did you meet with president biden? >> we did not. not that many people got to meet with the president. i think he did exactly the opposite of what we were expecting. we were expecting for him to come to el paso where he was welcome, we expected him to meet with community organizations, with families. there were families, refugees in downtown el paso exposed to freezing conditions right now. they are living in a very harsh environment.

they are visible in a church called sacred heart in downtown el paso. they are in the streets. so the president -- he would see all of these situations, the humanitarian crisis at the border. i think they wanted to ignore it or did not care about those families in downtown el paso. i think the president failed in the opportunity to connect with the border residents and migrants. was this just a photo op, check mark on the checklist that he already visited the border? i don't think this was a special help -- amy: what would you have told him if you had met with him, fernando garcia? >> the first thing is, please, president, you're not as we believe you're not a racist, or

not into. don't use title 42. to expand it. you were against it. you criticized it before. now you expanded it. now you expelled thousands and thousands of people to mexico where there is a lot of violence. the people that are already across the border, give them an opportunity for a process. you have left them in limbo. there are a lot of families come a lot of children. they don't have a place to go. they are suffering a policy that you are embracing. third, very important to understand, we need welcome for structure at the border. whatever we're doing on the ground, ngos, churches, it is not enough. it is not sustainable. not only this administration,

but previous administration's, broke it so they need to fix it. amy: guerline jozef i want to bring guerline jozef into this conversation -- i want to bring guerline jozef into this conversation. i want to ask about this program they said they expanded in the last few days calling at the humanitarian parole program, saying they would accept up to 30,000 migrants from cuba, haiti, nicaragua, venezuela, but was not talked about as much is they are expelling up to 30,000 migrants a month who cross without applying. can you talk about what exactly this means? >> good morning. thank you so much for having me again. honestly, [indiscernible] the program that is supposed to be welcoming about 30,000 people

from the countries you mentioned. but in reality, there is a lot of confusion because at the same time --t is for theto return 30,000 people from the country back to mexico. they tried to seek asylum. th tried outside of the paramete. we see the extension of tie 42 that we've been fighting very hard for tm to get so now we have where they said, ok, we're going to allow 30,000 people but at the same time what that policy does is closes other avenues for people to come and seek asylum. amy: we are having a little trouble with your sound. but i what to ask, you're in mexico city right now. can you talk about -- not in

mexico city, but you spent a lot of time there and you have been looking at the effects of the policy, particularly on haitians. you're one of the only bl ack-led organizations that deals with black refugees, specifically haitians, so can you talk about those that are left behind in mexico and what happento the >> right now if they are in mexico from one of those four countries and try to enter the united states outside othat progra you wilbe barred from entering. you will be returned to mexico and barred from participating -- what the president said is to wait and stay where you are. threaly is, if you have a woman who's in a country fleeing

cuba, venezuela, nicaragua -- they have absolutely no way to get protection. what is required for them, they have to have a passport. in addition to a passport, they have to have a person in the united states who agrees to sponsor them. the realy is, this would close off the most vulnerable people. [indiscernible] they would be barred from participating in getting any type of protection. amy: guerline jozef, thank you for being with us, executive director of haitian bridge alliance.

and thank you to fernando garcia. fernando, i have one last question. yes, president biden is now meeting with amlo, the mexican president and the canadian prime minister had north american leaders conference right now in mexico city. what do you think mexico needs to do and what the united states should be partnering with mexico around right now? >> i am very sure mexico does not have immigration enforcement work of the united states. this idea that we're going to have 30,000 refugees, migrants sent to mexico every month in the midst of this violence -- you have heard the violence in sin a lower even mexico city. -- senna loa lower, even mexico city. i think mexico should stand their ground and say we're not going to do anything that

violates international human rights, basic rights. the loss they're breaking right now. amy: i want to thank you, fernando garcia, speaking to us from el paso, texas, where president biden visited yesterday for the first time as president, going to the southern border. tomorrow we will talk about his meeting in mexico. we thank you both for being with us. next up, harvard university's kennedy school of government facing outcry after resending a fellowship to ken roth, a former head of human rights watch, over human rights watch's criticism of the human rights record. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: spalding is leaving harvard

sang "sadly, what i aspire to cultivate and activate organize learning spaces is not yet aligned with harvard's priorities." this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. harvard's kennedy school of government is facing growing outcry for rescinding a fellowship for the former head of human rights watchenneth roth over his criticism and the group's criticism of israel's human rights record. ken roth is one of the most recognized human rights defenders in the world. he headed human rights watch from 1993 to 2022. in 2021, human rights watch made headlines when it published a major report accusing israel of committing crimes against humanity, including apartheid. in june, agreed to take fellowship inside harvard's kennedy school. but several weeks later, he

learned harvard kennedy school dean had vetoed a fellowship. roth was told it was because he criticized israel. the american civil liberties union has called harvard's decision to resend the fellowship to ken roth "profoundly troubling." penn america has also criticized it sang in a statement, "withholding rossford is a patient and human rights program due to his own staunch critiques of human rights abuses by governments worldwide raises serious questions about the credibility of the harvard program itself, they said. kenneth roth joins us from geneva, switzerland. welcome back to democracy now! talk about what is happened, what you understand why it is you are not at harvard enjoying this fellowship. >> as you just said, it is

because i and human rights watch criticized israel. the human right center of the kennedy school wanted -- called me up as soon as i announced i would be leaving human rights watch and made -- i'm working on a book and this will be a logical place for me to try to do that. we thought that was the end of the story. the dean's approval of my flesh would be a perfunctory matter. i was shocked [indiscernible] i spoke to the dean in july and he asked me, do you have any enemies? i thought it was a weird question. i have a lot of enemies. i mentioned to him the chinese government and the russian government have both personally sanctioned me, the rwandan government and saudi government hate me. i said, yes, israel.

that was the end of an hour. two weeks later, i learned to a very respected professor at the kennedy school that the dean had told her it was my criticism of israel that was the deathknell for my fellowship. amy: and human rights watch for close to, what, 30 years. talk about human rights watch's stand on israel, how it compares to amnesty international -- also did a big report on israel as an apartheid state -- but also your reports on saudi arabia and other countries in the middle east. >> well, human rights watch applies the exact same standards to israel as we do to 100 other countries that we regularly monitor. that is to say we insist on scrupulous, factual objectivity and then we apply those facts

under international human rights and humanitarian law. so the exact same process we use with everybody else. because there is an israeli -palestinian conflict, as a matter of principle, we scrutinize the other players and in that conflict. so we report critically on the palestinian authority, hamas, and hezbollah and what we do every other conflict around the world. there's really no difference. the big difference is there are group of organized supporters of the israeli government often masquerading behind civic groups with very neutral sounding names who attack anybody who criticizes israel. human rights watch any person, we tend to be at the forefront of their attacks -- and me personally, we tend to be at the forefront of their attacks. i don't think that was going on directly with the kennedy school dean, but he easily could have

rather material. since the announcement come the same groups have been saying, oh, human rights watch is bias. we hold israel to the same standards as everybody else. they want no criticism of israel . they want us to exempt israel. no credible human rights group could possibly do that. amy: who do you believe is behind the pressure for you, for example, not to be a fellow at the kennedy school? do you believe it is donors to harvard, and what kind of role do they play their? >> i am not hearing you. amy: can you hear me now? do you believe donors to harvard played a role in your rejection as a fellow? >> you are coming back. hello? amy: do you believe your role as a fellow -- do you believe that

donors' roles to harvard are a factor in your denial, the rescinding of your fellowship? >> i have no direct evidence of that but i think it is the only possible expo nation. the dean, i don't zinke personally cares but as it was shown in the nation, the kennedy school has a few big donors who are big supporters of israel. i think the real fear here is he consulted with them or feared what they would say, but he allowed their censorship. apparently, he apparently allowed donors to violate the principle of academic freedom. and this is a very serious problem. it is not just a problem for me

personally. this is not impeding my career in a significant way. first of all, younger academics who don't have the visibility that i do who are going to take from this lesson in you touch israel, if you criticized israel , that could be a career-killing mood. you'll get canceled. that is a disastrous signal to send. at the other big issue is if there is any to touche and the world come academic institution that could resist this kind of donor pressure, it is harvard. harvard is the richest university in the world. harvard should be saying we as a matter of principle will not accept contributions from donors who insist on violating academic freedom. they are not making that statement. right now they are lying low and leaving us to have to surmise it was the kind of donor pressure that led to this cancellation of my fellowship an undermine academic freedom. i hope harvard takes this as an

opportunity to clarify that donor preferences never will be allowed to violet academic freedom. but their silence so far says the opposite. amy: there was an interesting op-ed in the new york times in august headlined of a good has the fight against anti-semitism lost its way?" he said -- talk about who these jewish organizations are. do you think they had anything to do with what happened to you? in your own background, your family in relation to the holocaust. >> first of all, me personally, am jewish. my father grew up in nazi

germany and fled in july 1938 to the united states. i grew up hearing hitler stories. it is sort of what i brought from that experience. the accusation i am anti-semitic is ridiculous. but there is april effort to redefine anti-semitism. essentially, criticism of israel . they say, oh, you're demonizing israel. human rights advocacy is about demonizing abusive governments. when human rights watch reports on abuses and publicizes them, we are trying to demonize governments around the world. that is what we do. that is how we pressure governments into changing. to say we're demonizing israel therefore we are into somatic, it is basically saying, don't criticize -- anti-semitic, it is basically saying don't criticize israel. anti-semitism is a real vibrant threat but if it is dumb down

any criticism of israel, people are going to stop getting outraged about anti-semitism and think this is just the abuse of israel government or supporters trying to defend israel. that would be a shame for the effort to combat anti-semitism. amy: can you talk about who is behind the bell percent are in the role that it has played in shaping the discourse or trying to limit criticism of israel? >> michael in the nation talks about it which i think is the biggest part of the kennedy school. it is many, many fellowships. i was just denied. i am including an israeli general was given one last year. it is still the national security types. medical wonders where these national security types were behind the fee to my fellowship. personally, i don't think that was it. human rights watch deals with

security types all around the world. they recognize us as respected institution, fact-based, principle. they may not like our criticisms but we are accepted. the idea they would do with us every day in washington and brussels but suddenly vito my fellowship at harvard, i don't think that is -- there are some donors behind the bell percenter and i think that is probably the more likely explanation. not that they existed but the dean elmendorf feared they might object to my appointment. god knows why. frank lima count -- frantic, my cutter parts had prior fellowships there and no one cared. but suddenly ultrasensitive to the possibility he might be criticized for pointing me because israel is among the 100 governments thai human rights watch criticized. this is something in other

places as well. amy: this is significant now given israel now has perhaps the most far right government and its history. we have about 30 seconds, if you could respond. >> what i worry about is this new netanyahu government, which has clearly had to placate the far right in order to secure power, is going to be more repressive than even the israeli government under him had previously been. the apartheid treatment of the palestinians i fear is only going to get worse. amy: where do you end up, kenneth roth? >> well, i am writing my book this year. i took a fellowship at the university of pennsylvania and currently am looking at a few possibilities to begin a professorship starting in september. i will probably decide that soon. i'm going to continue writing about human rights, speaking about human rights, and being

part of the cause, just no longer formally of human rights watch. amy: kenneth roth is the former long-time executive director of human rights watch. that does it for our show. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!] o;o;ó7ó7kxq#qqqcccwgcg/g'■

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