01/12/23 01/12/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> i am so upset according to the news, no one can continue their activities as part of society. women have no place in afghan society is so disappointing. amy: in afghanistan, pressure is growing on the taliban to reverse a ban on women going to college or working with non-governmental organizations.

we will speak with jan egeland of the norwegian refugee council. he is in kabul, where he met with taliban members in an effort to reverse the ban. then we will look at a new investigation into how cia-backed death squads killed hundreds of afghan civilians in nighttime raids. >> it is our commaer who ges us iormation >> we just have the shooting order. amy: we will speak to an afghan reporter who returned to afghanistan to research the murders of her mother and sister nearly 30 years earlier. while there, she stumbled on the cia-back zero units that were conducting the night raids. and we will go to california, where the death toll has risen to 19 as heavy storms and flooding continue to devastate much of the state. >> we are definitely at a point where we can see the devastating

impacts that these first few storms have caused. we know there is more rain on the way, which means we are going to have to continue to prepare. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. russia's defense ministry has appointed a new commander to lead his forces in ukraine and the latest shakeup of russian military command structure in the wake of devastating battlefield losses. the russian army general replaces the current man who will be demoted after just three months as commander. you played key roles in the seizure of crimea in 2014 and help the russian forces in syria, supporting president bashar al-assad. meanwhile, president blow to mayor zelenskyy of ukraine denied claims russian forces led by mercenaries have seized

control of the eastern city of russia claims to have killed about 500 ukrainian soldiers. in washington, d.c., protesters gathered outside the white house wednesday to call on president biden to close the prison at the u.s. naval base in guantánamo bay, cuba. demonstrators wore orange jump suits and black hoods over their heads, marking the 21st anniversary of the reopening of the notorious prison to house hundreds of muslim men and boys who were captured overseas and handed over to the u.s. 35 men remain imprisoned at guantanamo today. in an open letter to president biden wednesday, the aclu, the center for constitutional rights, and over 150 other groups, write -- "the guantánamo detention facility was designed specifically to evade legal constraints, and bush administration officials incubated torture there. guantánamo continues to cause escalating and profound damage to the aging and increasingly

ill men still detained indefinitely there, most without charge and none having received a fair trial." in other news from the nation's capital, members of the group codepink disrupted a brookings institute defense policy talk with congressmember adam smith wednesday to call for a diplomatic end to the ukraine war. >> democrats have to step forward,ave to put the pressure on the biden administration and say we need negotiations, not more wars. >> the real security -- getting people house [indcernle] amy: alabama's republican attorney general said wednesday pregnant people could be criminally prosecuted if they take medication to terminate a pregnancy. his comments came just days

after the u.s. food and drug administration announced retail and mail order pharmacies can now sell the abortion pill mifepristone directly to patients with a prescription. medication abortions account for more than half of all u.s. abortions. on capitol hill, the republican-led house wednesday approved legislation that would require reproductive care providers to work to preserve the life of the infant born after a failed attempt at an abortion, a situation that is exceedingly rare. house republicans also approved a resolution condemning what they called "attacks" on anti-abortion groups and churches. neither piece of legislation is expected to advance in the democratic-controlled senate. here in new york, dozens of republican party officials called publicly wednesday for newly elected congressmember george santos to resign. santos won november's election to represent new york's third congressional district in queens and long island after fabricating large portions of

his résumé and life history. this is nassau county republican committee chairman joseph cairo. >> there is no place in the committee nor should he serve in public service, nor as an elected official. he is not welcome here i republican headquarters for meetings or at any of our events. as i said, he has disgraced the house of representatives and we do not consider him one of our congresspeople. amy: george santos has steadfastly refused to resign. he was confronted by reporters on capitol hill on wednesday. >> will you resign? >> i will not. i will not. amy: republican house speaker kevin mccarthy on wednesday rejected calls that he take action against santos saying voters would have another chance two years from now to elect a new representative. >> you're innocent until proven

guilty. just because somebody does not like the press you have come does not mean you can overstay with the voter say. the voters made this decision. he has a right to serve. if there's something that rises to the occasion that he did something wrong, then we will do without. amy: house speaker mccarthy also signaled santos remains eligible to serve on house committees. his defense of santos came after he confirmed that three prominent democratic congressmembers -- adam schiff, eric swalwell and ilhan omar -- would be barred from serving on house committees. congresswoman omar said she believes mccarthy singled her out over her religious faith, telling huffpost -- "i do not actually think that he has a reason outside of me being muslim and thinking i should not be." illinois' democratic governor jb pritzker signed legislation this week banning military-style assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. pritzker said on twitter -- "i'm tired of living in a world where a mass shooting needs a

title so you know which one we're referring to." the white house welcomed the news wednesday. >> there president continues to urge other states to join california, new jersey, connecticut, hawaii, maryland, massachusetts, new york, delaware, washington, d.c., and now to ban assault weapons at the state level -- and now illinois to ban assault weapons athe state level. amy: in another win for gun corol advocates, the.s. supreme court left in place for now a new rk law tha restricts guns in many plic places. the law was enacted following a june supreme court ruling that struck down a new york law limiting the carrying of concealehandguns oside the home. in afghanistan, the islamic state claimed responsibility for an explosion that killed at least five people near the foreign ministry wednesday. dozens me were injed. it was theecond majoattack in kul since t start of 2023. after headlines, we'll go to afghantan to spe with the head of the norwegian refugee

council jan egeland. israeli forces shot and killed a palestinian man as he was standing on the roof of his own home in occupied east jerusalem. the killing came during a raid on the qalandiya refugee camp. sameer aslan was 41 years old and a father to eight. he was the third palestinian to be killed by israeli force in under 24 hours following the deaths of 21-year-old ahmed abu jneid and 19-year-old sanad mohammad samasra in the occupied west bank. israel has killed at least seven palestinians since the start of the year, including three children. in peru, the death toll from anti-government demonstrations has risen to 48 following the ouster and arrest of leftist former president pedro castillo last month. health officials said 37 civilians and six police officers were injured wednesday after fresh clashes erupted in the city of cusco. meanwhile, thousands of people in the city of juliaca held a mass funeral procession for 17

people killed monday after security forces opened fire on protesters calling on castillo's successor dina boluarte to resign. among the dead was 17-year-old yamileth aroquipa, a psychology student and volunteer at a shelter for abandoned animals who was fatally shot in the abdomen. her mother spoke to reporters on wednesday. >> the assassin dena, why doesn't she have blood on her face? my young daughter had such a bright future ahead. she wanted to visit many countries. she was a psychologist. amy: in mexico, journalists in the southern state of guerrero rallied wednesday to demand the release of three of their colleagues who were kidnapped in late december. jesus pintor alegre, fernando moreno villegas, and alan garcia aguilar work for the outlet escenario calentano. in aideo posted to social media, two of the journalists can be seen with their hands and feet chained. meanwhile, authorities in mexico city arrested 11 people in

connection with the attempted assassination of prominent television and radio host ciro gomez leyva in a drive-by shooting december 15. in climate news, the united arab emirates has named the ceo of one of the world's biggest oil companies to preside over the cop 28 united nations climate summit when it convenes in dubai later this year. sultan ahmed al jaber heads the abu dhabi national oil company. responding to his appointment, the anti-poverty charity actionaid said -- "this appointment goes beyond putting the fox in charge of the henhouse. the u.n. climate summit is supposed to be a space where the world holds polluters to account, but increasingly it's being hijacked by those with opposing interests." nbc news is reporting aides to president biden have uncovered at least one additional batch of classified documents in a separate, undisclosed location.

this comes after news broke monday that a first batch of classified materials were found in november in an office used by biden after his vice presidency. cnn reported the initial documents contained intelligence related to ukraine, iran, and the u.k. those documents were handed over to the national archives. in sports news, buffalo bills defensive player damar hamlin has been released from the hospital to continue his recovery at home. his release came nine days after he suffered a cardiac arrest on the field and twice had to be resuscitated during a monday night football game against the cincinnati bengals. in recent years, the nfl has faced increased scrutiny over player safety, as more research links the full-contact sport with concussion-related traumatic brain injury and other negative health outcomes. and in labor news from here in new york city, over 7000 nurses at montefiore bronx and mount sinai hospital have returned to

work, ending a three-day strike after reaching tentative deals with the hospitals on improving staffing ratios. the new york state nurses association union had already won wage increases, but striking nurses at the two hospitals said the ongoing staffing shortages severely impacted patient care. you can see our interview yesterday with one of the striking nurses at democracynow.org. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman, joined by my democracy now! co-host nermeen shaikh. hi, nermeen. nermeen: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: we begin today's show in afghanistan. on wednesday, at least five people died in a suicide bombing near theoreign mintry in bul. more tha40 peoplwere wounded. the islamic state claimed responsibility. meanwhile, pressure is growing on the ruling taliban to reverse bans on men going to college

are working with ngos, non-governmental organizations. in recent weeks, a number of major international aid agencies have suspended operations in afghanistan due to the ban. this could lead to an even greater humanitarian crisis in afghanistan where the united nations estimates more than 28 million afghans, or over 70% of the population, need humanitarian assistance. over 1.1 million children aged under five are acutely malnourished. some afghan women have publicly spoken out against the taliban's policy. bakshi recently spoke but ask to be referred to only as her surname. >> i am so upsetccording to the new decree of taliban's no women can continue their duties as part of this fighting the situation were no place in

afghan society is so disappointing. i urge the international community not to abandon and forget afghan women. afghan women must not be sanctioned anymore. they must not be sent to imprisonment. when you talk about human rights, support them and do not abandon them. i kind the request all women not to lose hope and struggle for the rights that god and society have given to them. amy: we go now to be joined by jan egeland, secretary-general of the independent norwegian refugee council which recently suspended operations in afghanistan like many aid group. jan egeland traveled to kabul this week to meet the taliban to press them to reverse the ban on women working with ngos. welcome back to democracy now! we saw you tweeted recently were not able to make it to kandahar because of the weather or the plane service canceled to meet with the taliban, but you have

been meeting with them in afghanistan, the capital. can you talk about why you feel this is important to talk to them rather than isolate them, and what are your demands? >> i am here because we need to help the same 28 million people in need that the nato countries left behind when they went for the door 1.5 years ago. it is the same women and children, really. but the only way we can serve them, help them, save the lives of them is by using -- this taliban government that is now in charge has now in egypt from their emir that goes way beyond the ngos, by the way, saying women cannot work anymore. stop work immediately.

we neither can or will provide humanitarian aid for males only. it would be fundamentally against their own values of equality between men and women. nermeen: jan, your assessment of how these conversations with taliban leaders have gone so far, what kind of response you have received your demand? >> we met -- i met the minister of economy, who is the minister that transmitted the ban to us. as ngos, we are all registered under that ministry. i met the minister for refugees and repatriation. i was meeting the deputy foreign minister in the foreign ministry

were 24 hours later the bomb exploded that you referred to. all of the taliban leaders told me paradoxically they agree with us, they agree there should be education for women and girls. they agree we should be able to employ female professionals as we need to, but they refer to kandahar as the emir and they have to -- at the same time they were working hard to have another decree that would enable to start working with males only. we say, no, we have to wait until this new decree comes that will enable meals np muscle like -- males and females alike. even for us it is terrible to see so much suffering that we cannot anymore meet in this

country. nermeen: in fact, were told the decision was made by a single taliban leader and that most people who you spoke to taliban members did not agree with this decision. so do you think that makes it more likely that the decision will be reversed if it is coming just from one man? >> it is not any man, it is the emir, the supreme leader. it was so horribly frustrating and yet -- fight for 36 hours. despite the snow storms and ice and snow to get there, but -- we were inside one of the planes when we had to turn back. we don't need to go to kandahar to meet with the council of

islamic scholars -- they were waiting for us. the governor who speaks to the emir, wasn't possible. we will keep pushing. now turkiye and iran who have representations here and in kandahar and we urge anyone to help us with it because we need a reversal of these decisions. amy: jan egeland, can you describe the situation on the ground? i assume you have spoken to a number of women on the ground. all of the aid organizations that have suspended operations right now. what do you think the dimensions of the cemented terry crisis are? >> a unanimous -- the nongovernmental organizations,

aid workers that are now being paralyzed is that the crisis is catastrophic. it is -15 celsius. people have been hungry for months. sanitation is lacking from epidemic disease. at that point, we need to be enabled to do our work so the ban on female education and female workers is fundamental to enable effective work. we also need development money.

[indiscernible] there are a lot of things that should also pertain to the west that went out the door 1.5 years ago. nermeen: are you the only leader of an international ngo that is in conversation, who is on a conversation with the taliban? our other organizations who also suspended operations there attempting to speak to the taliban? you said turkiye, iran, and qatar are there placing pressure on the taliban. are there other countries during the same? >> when qatar goes with the united emirates -- there are a lot of countries that are telling them there's nothing in islamic education against female

work. we also have obeyed the traditional rules. chaperones, the separation of men and women workers. yes, the islamic countries and help us. i think the u.s. and norway and others who still have direct and indirect contact with the taliban, intensify their diplomacy. feeling alone as a humanitarian. working the same millions of women and children, so important for the nato countries 1.5 years ago and many more will come from --

but we need help from others. nermeen: jan, there is this massive humanitarian crisis that we have covered extensively on the program, including with you which is worsening, but there is also -- of course you were there yesterday in kabul, as you said, you had meetings at the foreign office itself which is where the suicide attack happened. could you describe the scene on the ground and also what you are hearing about the levels of violence in afghanistan? >> there are these attacks. it is bad and seems to be building. there is also tension within the taliban. many people who would like to have a moderate line -- extremist mind has undertaken these edicts. a lot of tension.

again, i find it strange that are not diplomats from more countries, including western countries, here. it is an important place and it is a place where millions are suffering. amy: i want to ask about the refugee situation because you met with afghanistan's ministry of refugees and repatriation. can you talk about prioritizing refugees and what is happening to them as they face discrimination in the u.s. and other countries, even those that work with u.s. forces while they were there in afghanistan trying to escape and reports that pakistan is sending back hundreds of afghan refugees and tens of thousands attempt to fully -- to flee? >> the crisis -- the harder it is to escape the crisis.

it is difficult to reach any of the neighboring countries. the neighboring countries have returned people. and the nato countries that employed so many here are not even willing to take any of them. i get a lot of whatsapp messages from former employees, from nato countries saying, we are not really evacuated. but of course the solution to afghanistan's problems is -- we need to be enabled to do fully our work and that means the taliban needs to change the tactics but we also need the resources and an enabling

environment. it is still very difficult to get even aid money to the country because the banks -- sanctions that have largely been lifted for afghanistan but are still difficult. amy: jan egeland, thank you for being with us secretary general , of the norwegian refugee council. joining us from kabul where he met with several taliban officials. next up, we look at a new investigation into how cia-backed death squads killed hundreds of afghan civilians in nighttime rates and the push for accountability. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. deadly night raids based on fault intelligence and then covered up i classified were

loophole. this is the focus of a major new investigation by reporter lynzy billing into cia-backed afghan forces called zero units which left a trail of civilian deaths across afghanistan but have yet to be held accountable after the u.s. ended its two-decade-long occupation. lynzy billing initially returned to afghanistan to find out more about the deaths of her own mother and sister nearly 30 years earlier, but started to focus on the zero units night raids she first heard eyewitness testimony. over the next four years, she visits the sites of more than 30 raids in afghanistan and interviewed hundreds of people, including survivors and families of victims. she also spoke to soldiers inside the zero units who were the men tasked with killing their own compatriots on u.s. orders. in this clip from a forthcoming documentary, two of them

describe their work in 2019 and afghanistan's province near the forward operationsase. to prote their safet their rds are spoken b acts. >> i aa memberf ghanist's zero unit in the east of the country. intellince comein, the id is concted. is our mmander who ves us inrmion. >> we just have the shooting order. amy: two soldiers with the so called units in afghanistan describing their work to reporter lynzy billing and her new expose for propublica "the night raids."

she's an investigative reporter stop born in afghanistan, she is a british journalist. we welcome you to democracy now! can you talk about, layout the findings of your peace, who these zero units are and you're going they're not exactly to investigate this story but actually your own family and what happened to them. >> thank you for having me. this story really started in early 2019 when i went back to afghanistan to look into my past and what happened my family. it was in the east of the country where i met a distant relative and i was investigating the death of my mother that happened decades earlier. i met a woman and she was a

widow and she was in her 50's and she was by herself. she was telling me this story of the night raid that had killed her two only children. after meeting her and seeing -- she was at a complete loss of what to do. she really kind of turned to me to help her try to understand what happened. after hearing her story, i felt this huge responsibility to look into who was conducting these operations in remote and rural areas of afghanistan. that is when i kind of stumbled across the zero units, which are squadrons of afghan special forces who were trained and funded and equipped by the cia

and were joined on their operations by america special operations. at times, depending on the operation, cia advisors. use were -- these were counterterrorism operations. first taliban and then can later years isk. i started hearing more and more reports of people -- from people who had lost loved ones in these operations and started to realize while sometimes they were successfully targeting americans, there were also getting it wrong. nermeen: what did you learn about why -- when the units were established, how many units there were, how many afghans and american special forces were

members of these units, and then explain why you chose to focus on one of them, zero 2. >> there were four known zero squadrons and they are based regionally across the country. as you said, i focused on 02, which was in the east. they were based in jalalabad. there also neighboring provinces. i started to focus on 02 because there were more more reports i kept hearing of civilian casualties and watched operations. it was just a huge number coming from them. and also because i was there initially and i just felt like there were provinces that at that time when this all started

in early 2019, they were not being reached by a lot of media reporters. they were in really and accessible areas. it was really a hot spot these operations. when it started, they're going up nearly every night. it was really tracking these operations in real time. and that is why i really felt like i needed to speak with soldiers inside the 02. i wanted to understand from them why they were going on these operations on u.s. orders and why they were targeting their own countrymen, how did they feel when they went wrong? these were huge operations. these are 18 men on a night raid

of which 10 to 12 americans were also joining, they were telling me. huge convoys. they had access to air power as well, u.s. airpower. they were so active in naarhar and everyone knew who the zero units were. they knew what they were, they knew -- they were greatly feared. and yet they did not know was behind them, who was compiling the intelligence, who was still the that she was building these targeting packages and sending them out -- who was building these targeting packages and sending them out. you were really left without answers to what was happening on the operations. nermeen: you actually managed to speak to these -- we played a clip earlier of two men.

how did you get them to speak to you, first of all, and what was especially striking to you about what they said in her conversations with them? -- said in your conversations with them? >> i think was probably about six months after looking for soldiers inside 02 to talk to that i first met these two men. at first they were hesitant to talk to me. they did not quite understand why i wanted to talk to them. i guess over time, they began to trust me and that i did want to hear their perspective on what they were doing and also their backgrounds played a big role into why they joined these operations initially. and they really kind of started

opening up over time. there was a lot of pain and guilt with what they were seeing and also confusion as to the role within the structure of the zero units. nominally, intelligence agencies but were under the umbrella of the cia program as well. they really i think initially -- i remember one specific meeting where they told me that one operation that had killed civilians and that had not resulted in finding the target they were looking for in that operation. and the frustration from their part where they were not the ones who could talk about it and there were not writing up the action reports. they were not sure if anyone was even going to find out about the silly and skilled entities

operations -- about the civilians killed in these operations. it was out of their hands. amy: lynzy, you spoke to a man named spin gr who says he was shot three times when he was 12 years old by two soldiers outside their base in jalalabad. >> spin ghar --i met him just as last year. actually, by coincidence. this was the u.s. had now left afghanistan and so much had changed over the course of this investigation. and very quickly for everyone. but he was really -- he really stuck with me because when i met him, he had been shot, as you say, three times outside his home, which is right next to the base in jalalabad.

the military base. he had been encouraged to file papers for compensation or compensation claim. for his injuries, being treated at the base in jalalabad and also bagram airbase. he filed these papers. he received a letter back. it was written in english and he did not speak english or read english. it declined to give him compensation for his injuries and he had been waiting so long to hear it he was going to get this compensation for what happened on that occasion. and he really stuck with me because this is long after the u.s. had left. there are still people and afghanistan who -- in afghanistan who are waiting to hear back on promises of compensation and have been

encouraged to pursue. this operation happen him when he was 12 stop although on the form, who was written that he was 14. he felt this telling symbol for me as to what really was left behind. amy: i want to ask you about who is behind these zero units, particularly why, for example, that these raids are conducted by the cia and not the military, what kind of loophole and lack of reporting investigation or accountability that leads to? >> it is a very murky area. as you say, they are not u.s. military counterterrorism operations.

because they fall under the cia, they don't fall under the usual u.s. law that would apply to the military or title x. and you a special operation forces soldiers joining these operations also don't fall under the same u.s. laws because these are now covert action operations, title 50. so there is this completely loophole into them not receiving the same oversight and scrutiny that u.s. military operations would. nermeen: lynzy, talk about -- you also spoke to a u.s. army ranger who told you, who conceded that these night raids had terrible effects, so he said there were preferable to airstrikes saying you go on night raids, make more enemies, then you got to go on more night raids so the more enemies you

now have to kill. you spoke to him. you also spoke of the historical -- the use by the u.s. of night raids. what did you understand about why americans, u.s. military and cia, use this particular method and have for decades? >> yeah, they have been using it for decades, using the night raid strategy since 1967 when they were doing these operations against the viet cong in south vietnam. and iraq, which they claimed as having major successes targeting insurgencies and militants. and yet that is not the result that we see in a reporting and that is not the result that came

out afterwards, this repeatedly used strategy that has failed time and time again. and that has not had a full account -- a full accounting of it or what the fallout from these operations is. amy: finally, what you feel, speaking to 70 people, their attitude toward united states with the number of deaths that -- so many people, their attitude toward united states with the number of deaths? >> this is the legacy that americans left behind in afghanistan that many people i spoke to feel that these operations had actually had the reverse -- were counterproductive and turned families against the u.s.

it is the same -- if the same strategy is used in a complex and new wars without somebody the king at the tactics and saying, we are having failures of intelligence, then you will see a blowback the same as you have in afghanistan which is the way that people view the u.s. precisely because of witnessing years of these operations. nermeen: lynzy, you conclude your piece by saying in the end, "i got closure for my own personal story from the unlikeliest source." explain what you found out what happened to your mother and your sister and why you say that you were provided with disclosure. >> i did not get all the answers i was looking for with what happened to my family, but i do

feel and i think that is really in part something we see and afghanistan in general, which is one families loss and tragedy is replaced by another and it gets covered up. what happened to my family was so long ago now and what happened with the families -- over the last few years, recent conflict, i think the reason i felt some level of closure is because although he had not target my family and he had not killed them, it was an understanding from him over time and throughout regular meetings and conversations over time, this understanding that he had of what the real human cost of these operations was and how

everyone was affected from the families and survivors to the soldiers conducting these operations also. so there was something about him reaching that understanding that helped me feel -- loosened something in me to feel a little bit of closure saying that kind of remorse of what he had done -- seeing that kind of remorse of what he had done. amy: lynzy billing, thank you for being with us, investigative journalist who has been reporting on afghanistan since 2019. we will link to your piece in propublica headlined "the night raids." we go now to california where the death toll has risen to 19 as heavy storms and flooding continue to devastate much of the state. we will speak with a ucla climate scientist. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "beck's bolero" by jeff beck.

he died tuesday at the age of 78. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. in california, at least 19 people have died after storms continue to batter the region leading to widespread flooding, mudslides, and power outages. thousands of residents have been ordered to evacuate in some areas, including parts of santa barbara and monterrey county. 5 million in california remain under a flood watch. the national weather service says large portions of central california have received over half their annual normal precipitation in just the past two weeks and more rain is coming. santa cruz county supervisor zach friend has described the storms as a "a once-in-a-generational challenging event." the national guard has joint and the effort to find a five-year-old boy named kyle who was swept away by the floodwaters monday will stop meteorologists say california

has been hit with what's known as an atmospheric river of rain which have unleashed unrelenting storms. meanwhile, media matters reports national tv news is largely ignoring the link between climate change and the deluge devastating california. thgroulooked a60 segmes that aed on naonal tv ws neorks beten decemr 31 and january 4. only one mentioned climate change. to talk more about the storms in california, we are joined by daniel swain, a climate scientist at ucla and author of "weather west, the california weather blog." he is also a research fellow at the national center for atmospheric research and at the nature conservancy. daniel, welcome back to democracy now! can you talk about what is happening in california right now and how it links to climate change? >> thank you for having me. you mentioned in the introduction, california has

been expensing a multiweek period of very heavy precipitation, really a sequence of strong storm events, some of which have been what are known as atmospheric rivers, which are these corridors of highly conctrat wateraporoving ickly throh the atsphere. so california s been expensing it for multie weeksut the t rest of multiple storms over the past several weeks has been to produce pretty significant flooding impacts in certain parts of california that have unfortunately turned deadly nermeen: nermeen:. could you talk about the way in which these storms, these extreme weather events are being interpreted and how it is possible to look at them without looking at human induced climate change? >> i think what is clear from a climate science perspective at this point is that all weather

events are evolving in a changed climate. that is the reality of the world we live in today. the question is, to what extent is climate change influencing certain kinds of events, not whether it is in the first place. it is a question of how much. in this case, we know their primary link between climate change and extreme precipitation events is through a fairly basic fundamental principle of atmospheric thermodynamics. it really comes down to the fact the atmosphere has a much higher capacity to hold water vapor when it is warmer. an increase in the water vapor holding capacity of the atmosphere is exponential even for a linear or a criminal warming. this is a pretty profound effect because it races the ceiling on how intense precipitation can become by about 4% degrees fahrenheit or 7% centigrade of

global warming. today we are at about 1.2 degrees or so centigrade of global warming were at the point perhaps 10% to 15% of the intensity at any given precipitation event on average can probably be treated to global warming. of course that number is going to vary from event to event and region to region, but a ballpark estimate that the increase in extreme pursue petition events can have really large effects are ready. nermeen: could you explain one of the things that seem surprising about what is happening in california is that it is a state that is suffered from massive drought over the last several years. so how do these things go together. on one hand drought come on the other hand this extraordinary level of rain? >> first of all there is a bit of a silver lining here which is that with all of this rain the

severity of the california drought is decreasing with each passing week. of course course in the long run, they don't simply counterbalance each other. extreme dry and moving extremely wet, there are many reasons of why it is not an equal and opposite response. but in this world, there's an expectation that climate change will bring about an increase of what i like to term precipitation whiplash. this notion the variability from season to season and year-to-year of precipitation in california is already high at background but it is getting higher and the warming climate. in other words, even greater swings between extremely wet and extremely dry conditions and vice versa. our own work suggests human caused climate change is amplifying that affect. that is really leading to some significant challenges because as you might imagine, the way

coping with extreme on both ends of the spectrum are different that if you're just getting drier or wetter. if you have bowed to deal with, it is definitely more complicated. amy: daniel swain, what you expect california's weather to look like in the future and is it a harbinger for the rest of the country? >> california certainly has a climate that is distinct from the rest of the united states. it is known as a mediterranean climate, similar to the climate of the mediterranean itself and other similar zones around the world. what is happening there is a little different than what we might expect to see elsewhere. i think there are some generalities that we can reasonably assume, which is that it is getting warmer and temperatures are rising. we are seeing on average the freezing levels during winter that are creeping up the mountainside -- although this winter has brought a fairly exceptional snowpack.

so things are getting warmer and we are seeing both more extreme precipitation events on the one hand, which is essentially halfling everywhere -- happening everywhere, but more drout as well. not everywhere but it is happening in many places. i think the things people are surprised happening in california, the increase in extreme precipitation events, that is something perhaps less surprising other places because they see even larger increas. you think about the eastern have of the united states for example and the increases in extreme rainfall events and flash flood events the past few decades has been considerable more dramatic. even though california is a place more recently accustomed to drought and water scarcity and wildfire, all of which are also increasing in california and at the warming climate, don't get me wrong, it is a place that also needs to be dealing with the opposite extreme. the extreme precipitation and

potential for increase in the risk of severe flooding. our own work published summer 2022 suggest climate change has already doubled the risk of a widespread severe flood event in california. i think that comes much as a surprise to folks were more accustomed to dealing with the opposite problem in recent years. nermeen: daniel, if you could talk about what you're anticipating in the next days in california? >> in the short-term, we are expecting at least for the next five to seven days this very active and rainy pattern will continue so there will likely be some amount of further flooding with another strong storm due in on saturday. there is some relief on the horizon, about eight or nine days out, looks like the pattern will relent and things will dry out and give california a much-needed chance -- for rivers to receipt and folks to dig out of snow banks. but there may be some additional flooding an additional

landslides and things like that over the next week. it may get worse before things get better but hopefully there is an end in sight. amy: daniel swain, thank you for being with us climate scientist , at ucla and author of weather west, the california weather blog. he is also a fellow at the national center for atmospheric research in boulder, colorado. it is a renowned climate research center that was almost burned to the ground by a climate-fueled wildfire. that does it for our show. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

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