01/19/23 01/19/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> there are elected officials in this room today were shot at in this despicable act of political violence. amy: election violence continues at home. in new mexico, republican candidate and election denier has made his first court appearance after being arrested on charges of orchestrating

shootings at the homes of four democratic officials following his election loss. we will speak to one of the officials whose home was shot at as well as the new mexico secretary of state. then we will look at azerbaijan 's blockade of nagorno-karabakh. >> the closure of the corridor is a provocation. its goal is a new military eslationnd there is need to take steps that are desirable those trapped in the military scenario. amy: and me this scientist fired from her job at a federal lab for climate activism. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman.

new research finds human activity has caused temperatures in greenland to rise far beyond levels seen in the 20th century. the study in the journal "nature" found that without immediate action to stop global heating, greenland's melting glaciers will raise sea levels by 20 inches by the end of the century, flooding coastal communities around the world. researchers studying ice cores found the cade spanng 2001 2011 was e warmest for greenland's ice sheet in a thousa years. teeraturesn some parts of greenlannow average 1.5 degrees celsius above pre-industrial levels. the united nations secretary general has condemned fossil fuel executives for deliberately misleading the public about the threat posed by their products. antonio guterres made the remarks in an address to the world economic forum wednesday after a new study found exxon was aware of the link between fossil fuel emissions and global heating as early as the 1970's

but spent decades refuting and obscuring the science in order to make maximum profits. >> some in big oil, the big lie. like the tobacco industry, those responsible must be held to account. today, fossil fuel producers and their enablers -- expand production knowing full well this business model is inconsistent with human survival. amy: the u.n. secretary-general warned that the paris climate agreement's goal of limiting global temperature rise to 1.5 degrees celsius is "nearly going up in smoke." he said without further action, the planet is headed toward a 2.8 degrees celsius increase. later, we will meet the earth scientist who was fired from her job at a federal lab for her climate activism. in ukraine, the russian mercenary firm wagner group is claiming its fighters have captured a strategic village outside of bakhmut.

the city in ukraine's eastern donetsk region has been nearly decimated by weeks of intense fighting. on wednesday, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy appealed to allies to speed the delivery of tanks and other heavy weaponry to ukraine. zelenskyy spoke by video link to government, military, and corporate leaders assembled at the world economic forum in davos, switzerland. >> there is the risk of security -- amy: zelenskyy's call came as u.s. secretary of defense lloyd austin traveled to berlin for talks with his newly-appointed german counterpart. "the washington post" reports german chancellor olaf scholz has agreed to send leopard 2 tanks to ukraine, but only if the united states follows suit. this comes as the biden

administration is set to finalize a military aid package to ukraine with $2.6 billion worth of additional weaponry, including first-time shipments of stryker combat vehicles. "the new york times" has -- retaking crimea, which russia has occupied, even at the risk of escalating the war. the international atomic energy agency says it's placing inspectors at all four of ukraine's nuclear power plants in order to safeguard against a nuclear catastrophe brought on by russia's invasion. on wednesday, iaea director-general rafael grossi toured the chernobyl nuclear power plant again, which russia briefly occupied last year. >> we certainly hope there will not be any further occupation or attack on the plant.

i efforts are aimed at avoiding that. and by having a permanent presence of the iaea, we are taking a very complete step in that direction. amy: the iaea is continuing to call for the establishment of a nuclear protection zone around the russian-occupied zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, which has repeatedly come under fire over the past 11 months of fighting. belarus has put exiled opposition leader sviatlana tsikhanouskaya on trial in absentia for committing treason. in 2020, tsikhanouskaya ran for president against belarus's longtime leader aleksandr lukashenko after her husband sergei was jailed while running for president. sviatlana fled belarus after the election. she denounced the trial as a farce. >> first of all, i am here to say in belarus, there are no honest trials.

absolute lawlessness in our country. so tomorrow's trial will be -- not just is, no? amy: in a remarkable victory for progressive activists, new york's democrat-controlled senate judiciary committee has rejected democratic governor kathy hochul's the top judge in new york state. in an unprecedented move, the committee voted 10-9 to oppose judge the nomination of hector lasalle who is the first latinx judge ever picked to head the new york court of appeals. numerous unions as well as civil rights come immigrant rights, and reproductive rights groups had opposed lasalle's nomination citing what they described as his past anti-labor and anti-abortion rulings. lasalle's backers included house minority leader hakeem jeffries. microsoft announced plans wednesday to lay off 10,000

workers in the largest round of job cuts at the software giant since 2014. this builds on approximately 120,000 job cuts over the past year at high-tech firms, including twitter, meta, salesforce. meanwhile, amazon said wednesday it will lay off 2300 workerin seattle and bellevue, washington -- part of a plan to slash amazon's corporate workforce by 18,000. this comes after the u.s. occupational safety and health administration, osha, cited amazon with failing to protect workers at three warehouses against ergonomic hazards, putting them at risk for musculoskeletal disorders and lower back injuries. a warning to our audience, this next story contains graphic images and descriptions of police violence. in indiana, lawyers for the family of hermann whitfield iii

have released body camera videos from the night whitfield was killed in his parents' home by indianapolis police officers. whitfield was an award-winning piano virtuoso who would have turned 40 years old last october. early on april 25 of last year, whitfield's parents called 911 to ask forelp as their son experienced a mental health crisis. siarmed police officers responded to the call. whfield fami lawyer chard waples says the videos show officers failed to call an ambulance and did not bring in mental health professionals as the family requested and instead responded with deadly force. >> they tased him. they got on top of him. they kept m prone down even though he was praying out he could not breathe. all of this was captured on the bodycam video's, which the police within not let us have. amy:he marion unty coroner's office later dermined the cae of whitfield's death was

homicide. the ty of indianolis and its police department fought for months to block a judge's order that raw videos of whitfield's killing be made public. herman whitfield's mother gladys whitfield said indianapolis police instead released a highly edited and narrated video which did not show the wholstory. >> in my opinion, theolice department has been anything but transparentoncerng the circumstances of our son's killing. in my opinion, has ten every opportunity to skew the facts and present a distorted view of what happened. amy: whitfield's family has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the city of indianapolis and the six officers who responded to the 911 call. in atlanta, georgia, protests against upland police training center known as cops city

escalated wednesday when police said they shot and killed a man who was art of the demonstrations. police said they were conducting a major clearing of protesters who occupied it a wooded area outside the center when they were fired on, claiming they fired back after an officer was wounded by gunfire. hundreds gathered at a vigil wednesday night to mourn the protesters death where they disputed the police account. longtime atlanta activist tweeted -- six protesters were arrested wednesday and charged with domestic terrorism. new zealand prime minister jacinda ardern has announced she will not seek reelection and will step down next month after more than five years in office. >> i know with this job takes and i know i no longer he enough in the tank to do it justice.

it is that simple. amy: prime minister ardern drew international praise for her handing of the covid-19 pandemic after her government stamped out the coronavirus for months until vaccines became widely available. she also drew praise for her compassionate response to a white supremacist massacre in 2019 that killed 51 people at two mosques in the city of christchurch, new zealand. shortly after those attacks, ardern led a campaign to rapidly ban military-style semi-automatic and assault rifles. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman, joined by my co-host nermeen shaikh. hi, nermeen. nermeen: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: we begin today's show in new mexico, whe new details are emerging about a former far

right republican candidate who lost his bid for a seat in the new mexico state house by a landslide this past november but refused to concede his loss and was arrested by a swat team monday for orchestrating shootings at the homes of four democratic officials. police say the suspect solomon peña paid four men to shoot at the homes of two county commissioners and two state legislators. this is albuquerque police acting commander kyle hartsock. >> after the election in november, solomon peña reached out and contracted someone for an amount of cash money to commit at least two of the shootings. they were communicated over phone. within hours, the shooting took place at the lawmakers' home. amy: in the series of attacks, bernalillo county commissioner adriann barboa's home was shot at multiple times on december 4.

on december 8, incoming state house speaker javier martinez's home was shot at. then on december 11, the former bernalillo county commissioner debbie o'malley's home was shot at. finally, on january 3, new mexico state senator linda lopez's home was shot at. no one was hurt but the bullets from a glock pistol did fly through the bedroom of lopez's sleeping 10-year-old daughter. solomon peña is accused of trying to participate in the last shooting himself but his gun jammed. he appeared in court wednesday to face multiple charges, including aggravated battery with a deadly weapon, criminal solicitation, and four counts each of shooting at an occupied dwelling. albuquerque mayor tim keller said the shootings were politically motivated. >> i also know that at the end of the day, this was about a right-wing radical, and election

denier someone who did the worst imaginable thing you can do with a political disagreement, which is to turn to violence. amy: authorities say peña actually visited the homes his four targets in the days prior to the attacks and tried to persuade them his election had been rigged. video obtained by the "albuquerque journal" appears to sh peña at a forr residenc of one of ose target, former bealillo cnty commissier debbie'maey. dobell camerfootage shows him aski to speak to her. >> hi, my me is somon peña. can i spk with debbie o'malley ? the public record says she owns this. do you know where she lives? amy: and then he went to the house where she lived. it was that house that was shot at. forore, we are joined by two guests. in santa fe, new mexico, debbie o'malley is the former bernalillo county commissioner in new mexico and was one of the four democratic elected leaders in the state whose house was

attacked in the shootings, allegedly orchestrated by solomon peña. in albuquerque, we are joined by new mexico secretary of state maggie toulouse oliver, who is a democrat. we welcome you both to democracy now! debbie o'malley, let's begin with you. we see this video footage of solomon peña going to property you own, asking for where you live. can you talk about what happened then -- what happened next? you actually spoke to him? that was well before your house was shot at. >> it was right after the resident told them where i lived. that is not unusual. normally, people are very respectful. he did go directly to my house.

there is a video that shows him approaching my gate and there is a clip also where he is waving his arms try to get my attention so i walk over there to talk with him. at is when he tells me that he felt he was cheated out of the election, that he had actually won, that the election was rigged. on and on. i did tell him that does not mean you get votes if you see people and knock on doors. he became very agited. he handed me a stack of papers. not a bi sta. i did scan them after i received them.

on my way back to my home. i could see there were letters stating the same things he told me and he wanted m response, yo know, medially. i did scan the rest of the papers. downloaded from a website clearly. the narrative about voter fraud. nermeen: describe what happened on the night of december 11 when your home was attacked. >> this would be a month later. my husband and i are sleeping. it was in the middle of the night. i think it was close to 2:00 in the morning. we heard this loud banging. i described it as sebody knocking on your door with the fist. we both got up at the same time. we heard more of that sound. we realized it was gunfire.

i did look to see where my gate cam was. the security lights were lighting up. we figured nobody was on the property -- we figured somebody was on the property. my husband discovered the gunshots, the holes in the wall, the bullet holes until the next day. center photograph and sent it to me -- took a photograph and sent it to me. nermeen: what did the police tell you? did they come immediately to your house? >> they checked the area for casings. i met with the detective at th time. it wasn't unusual to have a visit from that individual peña.

they did take that information. i did not hear anything, really. i think that there was mu more focus with senator lopez's house was sh at. i think they realized there was something going on. my husband was very worried about it earlier than that. police got involved and the fbi and others goreally focused and it became a priority for law enforcement here in albuquerque. amy: when state senator linda lopez's home was shot at, her 10-year-old sleeping daughter was nearly hit. she talked about the dust was on her as a result of the bullet flying. in the complaint, and i want to

bring in new mexico secretary of state here, the complaint citing an unnamed source said solomon wanted them to aim lower, these are the people allegedly hired to shoot at the houses, though he apparently was involved with one of them and his gun jammed. solomon wanted them to aim lower and shoot around 8:00 p.m. because occupants would more likely not be laying down. he wanted to hisomeone, new mexico secretary of state maggie toulouse oliver. you run the election apparatus system, as all secretaries of state duke in their states. your house personally was not shot at, though you into hiding last year? talk about what is going on here, this political violence at home. >> thank you for having as on to talk about this important topic. i have been an election

administration in new mexico at the local and how the state level for the last 15 years and the last two years have been unprecedented in terms of the violent political rhetoric that we are all being exposed to as election oicials and now we can see with mr. peña, radicalized pro-trump supporter who not only took threats that he made toward me psonally and otr election officials, but obviously, into action against former commissioner o'malley and her other friends and colleagues. this is the topic i've been talking a lot about but -- that because of the big lie and because of the disinformation that has been spread throu a certain portion of the population so extensively over the last two years, we have now seen individuals like mr. peña,

frankly, somebody who already had a criminal record in the past two might have already been disposed to commit acts of violence, taking that rhetoric as truth and changing from a pattern of verbal or social media-based threats into actions. i am very grateful for law enforcement in our state, for the albuquerque police and the state fbi to have acted so quickly once this pattern of actual violence was established and to take quick action to obtain and arrest those who were involved. but what concerns me is that this may not be where this radicalized behavior based on lies and disinformation ends. nermeen: maggie, as you explain, peña had a criminal record so how is it first of all that he was able to run for political office at all and how did he get access to guns?

>> well, i don't know the answer to the second question. i thinkur members olaw enforcement would be better equipped with that information. but what i can tell you in new mexico, we have a little bit of a disjoinin terms of our laws around candidacy and holding office. so in new mexico, someone who has been convicted of a felony cannot hold a public office. hover, there is no such prohibition for somebody to seek office. so the grand irony of mr. peña's candidacy is that although he could run for office, he could never have actually assumed office had he won the election. as you stated, this was a landslide loss and it was not even close. and so the allegations for election rigging are ludicrous. amy: something like 50

percentage points. but if you could tell us, secretary of state maggie toulouse oliver, why you went into hiding st year. >> following the 2020 general election as i think folks are very aware, there was a tremendous campaign orchestrated by former president trump and his supporters to cast dispersions and out. of course we saw the most visual and violent culmination of that with the january 6's urgency attack on the capitol. however, i and many of my colleagues from around the country who conduct elections on both sides of the aisle, independents, we were subjected to a massive dioxin campaign that ultimately turned out to be castrated by the iranians. it was a website called "enemies of the people." my home along with about 70 other election officials from aroundhe country, photos of

our homes, our home addresses, our personal and private information was posted on this website and they would so far as to create a bitcoin wallet to collect donations for bounties, for those who may commit acts of vience against us. yes, i had to relocate from my home. had a state police protection detail for several weeks until the website was ultimately taken down and until for the security measures could be taken to keep my home safe moving forward. nermeen: debbie o'malley, could you talk about what your concerns are now and what u think needs to happen? >> that question has been asked of me many times now, what needs to happen. if you're talking about security

or how secure our homes so we are not vulnerable, i don't have the answer to that. local offials, people -- i was born in albuquerque. i have been here for generations. -- my family has been for generations. my constituents know who i am. they have seen yet the grocery store. if they need to get a hold of me, they can. that is the life of a local official. have detail follow me everywhere? that is not feasible to have that happen. obviously, my vulnerability level was increasedreatly and i certainly have a higher alert cause of my safety and security, and we are doing what we can there, but, younow, other than that, i don't have the answer. the access to guns -anybody

can get a gun. we see this everywhere. people don't think twice about using it. i don't have the answer for that. amy: we are going to end with new mexico secretary of state maggie toulouse oliver. if you can comment overall on the climate now? you are the chair of the secretaries of state jenna griswold, secretary of state of neighboring colorado, who lobbied to get bodyguards as well. are we seeing this all over the country, not only for secretaries of state who run elections, but local level officials? i mean, what do you feel the country is coming to at this point? do you see this white supremacist violence, far right violence is only increasing at this point? what needs to done? >> that is a good question.

interestingly, i was just doing interviews a couple of months ago talking about how election officials around the country, myself included, were heaving a huge sigh of relief post 2022 election because the threats of violence did seem to significantly lessen over 2020. however, i want at that time, and i obviously have to say now, that we don't think that is over, that particarly as we head into the022 electi, particularly as we have former president trump seeking the nomition once again and of course it is and his supporters who have been the most of your lent in terms virulent terms of making comments about the process. you can see what happens when

you have the heightened rhetoric inflated affirmations. yes, i think we are -- security of election officials now isop of mind. in my state in new mexico, we are going to be looking at legislation to keep public officialsrivate home information, to make it less public. we are also continually seeking more funding and resources for security measures for those of us who run elections. now we are also going to have to look at all of our public officials. new mexico is an accessible place. it is a small place, very community-based. as commissioneo'mall was saying, people are used to knowing where tir elected

officials li and how to get in touch the -- in touch with the post of amy: i want to thank you both for being with us maggie , toulouse oliver, new mexico secretary of state. speaking to us from santa fe, but sicko. and debbie o'malley, former bernalillo county commissioner and her home was shot up by a truck supporter who denies the election results in his own case. he ran for the state legislature. coming up, we will look at azerbaijan. and a climate scientist to his fired for her activism -- who s fired f her actism. stay wh us. ♪♪ [muc break]

amy: "happiness" by blood orange. we turn now to look at the growing crisis in nagorno-karabakh, a region at the center of a decades-long dispute between azerbaijan and armenia in the south caucasus. the area is located inside azerbaijan but is historically armenian territory populated by ethnic armenians. since december 12, the only road linking nagorno-karabakh to armenia has been closed, effectively putting the population under a months-long blockade.

according to news accounts, azerbaijan has at times cut off electricity, gas, and internet access to the region. armenia's prime minister nikol pashinyan has denounced the blockade. >> the closure of the lachin corridors a provocation. its goal is a new military escalation and the's no nee to take steps that are desirable to those with a military scenario. the aim of this provocation and escalation is to hide the obvious need for a political and official dialogue and to remove this issue from the agenda. amy: on wednesday, the russian foreign minister sergei lavrov said russia is ready to send troops to the armenia-azerbaijan border. in 2020, russia brokered a ceasefire between the two nations. to talk more about the crisis, we are joined by the writer and photojournalist roubina margossian. she is the managing editor of the independent news site evn

report in armenia. she reported from nagorno-karabakh during the 2020 war. she is joining us from yerevan, armenia's capital. thank you for being with us. can you lay out the latest develop of elements and why this is so significant for the world to understand what is happening? >> thank you for having me. thank you for having this subject why this is significant. the latest development is like most 40 days that 120,000 people in nagorno-karabakh -- gas has been cut of, internet has been cut off electricity -- they are trying to save electricity. there is not medicine, ther is e

not enough food. the number oinstitutions are working from home because there is not enough heating and they're trying to save on that as well. children are not going to school. it is a humanitarian crisis on the verge of becoming a man-made catastrophe. this is what is happening because the population of nagorno-karabakh is located and ready -- 40 days. there is no solution in sight. nermeen: there was a peace agreement brokered by russia in 2020. why was this violated now? how do you understand how this happened? >> the 2020 cease-fire agreement brokered by russia, basically put the lachin corridor, the only lifeline, connection with

armenia, put the lachin corridor under authority of russia. here again, we have this issue as to -- they are allowing this to happen at this point. why is this happening? well, we can go into a little bit of what is happening with russia in the region and ukraine. while russia is losing a lot of its influence in the region and -- not russia is not opposed to allowing azerbaijan using war strategy such as this one, which is the lifeline to basically eventually pressure armenia to actual peace deal and concession into what the azerbaijan president calls --

[indiscernible] ethnic cleansing. this is not the first incident. issues are persistent every once in a while. [indiscernible] collectively punish the population of azerbaijan and russia is allowing it. it is also a kind of punishment and pressure on armenia nermeen: nermeen:. could you explain some background this crisis has been ongoing for almost 30 years, this disputed territory. explain how were borders

determined? if one looks at the map, azerbaijan comes on either side of armenia and then we have nagorno-karabakh as the armenians and you have been referring to as -- explain how this happened and what the affects of this have been in the region. >> the affects of this region have been considerable. the conflict is something that has been escalated and can basically become a full-fledged conflict any moment. this gives powers like russia a lot of leverage over countries in the region, especially armenia. it is been a frozen conflict for 30 years but it goes way back. traditionally, armenian.

soviet policy athe time, given to the republic of azerbaijan -- [indiscernible] it was not a full part of azerbaijan. however, as the soviet constitution back that allowed people to vote and decide which republic they wanted to join within the union. so i must at the end of the soviet union, the population of nagorno-karabakh took a vote and decided to join armenia. however, the soviet union did not accept the votes and the conflict has been ongoing ever since. so self-determination under the soviet rule was not respected and then with the follow the soviet union, conflict.

it is important to know this has always been at some point 100% armenian populated area during the soviet time it was majority armenian populated area. historically, there is no contesting if it is ethnically armenian or not. 120,000 people are under land or not. that is the history of the conflict, which escalated into full-fledged war in 2020 when azerbaijan attacked. so we are dealing with a worker situation. amy: can you talk about the significance of sergey lavrov saying russia is ready to send in troops to the armenian-azerbaijan border and what you feel would lead to some kind of resolution to the

standoff right now? >> well, -- they could have sent troops and failed to do. they had to do it and kind of -- narrative. played a little bit of both sides even though armenia was there secure to partner as a member of the organization. any incursion to the sovereign territory of one nation -- that would be in this case between on the border between armenia and azerbaijan and was not the secret organization has

no responsibility or nothing to do with lachin the corridor because that is not part of the recognize territory -- the sovereign republic of armenia nor azerbaijan. nermeen: you mentioned the collective security treaty organization, which consists of six states that became members following the dissolution of the soviet union. of course azerbaijan is not a member. could you talk about whether both sides view russia as a neutral broker given its historic support and alliance with armenia? >> could you repeat the last part i lost you. nermeen: is russia considered a neutral broker given its historic alliance with armenia?

>> evidently, no, given the recent developments. russia has historically brokered -- as far as comfort resolution goes, russia has proven to be re after self interest rather than peace in the region. amy: we want to thank you so much for joining us, roubina margossian, writer and a photojournalist. managing editor of the independent news site evn report in armenia. she has been reporting from nagorno-karabakh. she joined us from yerevan, armenia's capital. next up, meet the earth scientist who was fired from her job at a federal lab for her climate activism. stay with us.

amy: "the world is falling down" by dear nora. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. tens of thousands have climate activists and protested against the controversial expansion of the german coal mine. police evicted climate activists who occupied the deserted town for months to prevent the area from being mined for lignite, highly polluting type of coal. police used tear gas, water cannons by batons to clear the encamped. at least 20 protesters were injured. greta thunberg join the protest and was detained twice. >> the fact that all of you are here is hope. only a part of a much larger global movement, and movement for climate and social justice and racial justice. what happened here does not stay

here. germany is one of the biggest polluters in the world, has enormous responsibility. the changes will not come for the people in a power, from for operations, from the so-called leaders. no, the real leaders are the people sitting in tree houses and those who have been defending, for example, for years now. the carbon is still in the ground. we are still here. as long as the carbon is in the ground, this struggle is not over. amy: this comes as the united nations secretary general has condemned fossil fuel executives for deliberately sleeting the public about the threat posed by their products after new study found exxon was aware of the link between fossil fuel emissions and global heating as early as the 70's and even before but spent decades

refuting and obscuring the science in order to make maximum profits. he warned that pairs climate agreements goal of limiting global temperature rise to 1.5 degrees celsius is "nearly going up in smoke." without further action, headed to a two point a degree celsius increase. -- 2.8 degrees celsius increase. it was a dramatic scene when scientist and climate activist rose abramoff joined fellow nasa scientist peter kalmus to disrupt a meeting in december of the world's biggest meeting of scientists who study earth and space -- the american geophysical union. the nonviolent protest was meant as a call to action to address the climate crisis. rose abramoff and kalmus went up on stage and unfurled a banner that read, "out of the lab and into the streets."

amy: this was not rose abramoff's first protest. she had previously chained herself to a white house gate and to a fence at charlotte douglas international airport as part of a series of global protests coordinated by a group called scientist rebellion to raise awareness of how luxury air travel contributes to the climate crisis. until earlier this month, rose abramoff worked as an earth scientist at the oak ridge national laboratory in tennessee. but in a "new york times" opinion piece this month, she announced, "i'm a scientist who spoke up about climate change. my employer fired me." her employer, the u.s.

government. she joins us now for more from knoxville, tennessee. welcome to democracy now! dr. abramoff, it is great to have you with us. can you talk about the action you engaged in and your response to your firing? >> sure, amy. thank you. like you said, i was attending the largest annual gathering of earth scientists in december of last year in chicago where i presented work on the fx have climate and land use change come on carbon cycling, and peter, my friend who was holding the banner and climate scientist, was presenting on relevant studies. after we finished our professional obligations, we made our plea to action. we were quickly escorted off the stage but organizers. we were expelled from the conference.

most troubling to me, our work was removed from the conference program, which we have presente earlier this week as if it had never been presented. then of course as you described, a few weeks later, i was fired by my employer citing this incident. nermeen: how did they explain that? what were you guilty of in participating in this action? >> there were two explanations that were given to me on this very short piece of paper that was my termination letter. one was that i violated the business code of conduct. which contains a lot of things and they did not specify what exactly i violated, but there is language about maintaining the credibility and reputation of the laboratory. there is language about not misusing government funds, which is also separately cited as the second reason in the letter. because i was doing this, i was unfurling the spanner on a work trip. nermeen: talk about the group

scientist rebellion. what kinds of actions today engage in? >> scientist rebellion is an international group of scientists who are concerned about climate change and believe the mandate of scientistss, especially earth scientist, needs to expand so we typically engage in some nonviolent civil disobedience to demonstrate to people the severity of the climate crisis. part of our work is speaking up so people understand the carbon budget, how much time we have left, and another part is advocating for what we think are obvious policy solutions. obvious policy implications of our research. things like ending fossil fuel extraction subsidies, facilitating a green transition, luxury travel such as private jets and yachts come and adding progressive taxes.

those are just examples, examples of some of the campaigns we have participated in advocating for loss and damage, for example, at the conference of parties that occurred in egypt. amy: dr. rose abramoff, why did you risk your job and did you realize you are doing that? talk about your philosophy around being an earth scientis -- scientist and engaging in earth activism. some say that should be your responsibility as an earth scientist. >> recent events have brought up a lot of these fundamental questions about what the mandate of our scientists, especially those who study climate change, r. most scientists every flavor were originally trained by our institutions to be carefully policy neutral in all of our communications, both with each other, our institutions, and the press. and leave any political

commentary, however obvious it may be, to basically everyone else. i find it is really -- that is interesting to me that we sort of allow the fossil fuel industry, economist, politicians, celebrities, random people on the internet, the youth that are leading the movement, everyone has a stake and a right to comment on these climate policies except those of us who have subject matter expertise in the area. that seems like an odd policy to me and i take issue with that. nermeen: could you also talk about some of your concerns now about where the climate debate is going? a number of people have criticized the decision by the united arab emirates which is hosting the next round of u.n. climate talks. they have appointed the ceo of one of the world's biggest oil companies to preside over the talks. your response?

>> i think this is just another example of thway in which the fossil fuel industry has essentially captured every aspect of our politics. they are heading what is the -- it is supposed to be the climate mitigation conference. it is also troubling there is so much either tacit or explicit support from our leadership. there is a lot of friendly rhetoric from the fossil fuel industry that they believe in the green transition and they're planning to be carbon neutral by 2050, but i am an earth scientist and i would rather look at the numbers. one example, the abu dhabi oil company is still planning to increase their production of crude oil to 5 million barrels per day on the same time uab maintains they're going to be carbon neutral by 2050. i don't see how those two things are going to happen at the same time. everything else i have seen more generally in terms of plans for

production and expansion from the fossil fuel industry, across the world, leads me to believe this friendly rhetoric, this we are going to transition, and i can't think of a better way to say this, it is total bs. the study referenced last week published in the journal science confirms using yet another line of evidence that exxon mobil knew about climate change very accurately since at least the 1970's unlikely earlier than that. we know about the misinformation campaigns they have been leading and obscuring, essentially bringing to a halt any significant policy action since those decades. if as a society we're going to be successful in making a near transition away from fossil fuels, we have to remove the power and also the funding of the fossil fuel industry. their power, legitimacy, and funding. i think that is the only way we going to dismantle it,

essentially, successfully. amy: we're speaking at a time when greenland is the hottest it has been in 1000 years. these massive protests in germany where among many others greta thunberg, the famous swedish climate activist, has been detained twice and said climate protection is not a crime. we are talking about and oil coming to being head of the u.n. cop and biden's climate envoy, former senator john kerry, hailing him as a great leader of the cop, endorsing that decision. and under the biden administration, you have been fired. can you appeal since you work at a federal lab for them to rehire you? what message do you have for the that mitten? -- the biden administration? >> i'm not sure i can appeal

mostly because i work in the state of tennessee which does not have many appointed rights. ut, the sub -- defense contractor which manages oak ridge national laboratory, employs people at will. which essentially means i can be fired for any reason. they did not need to have given me a reason. but i do have appeals to make so my very first action when i chain myself to the white house gate was an appeal to the president to declare a climate emergency. there has bn some passage of policies since then, but nowhe near what we need in order to maintain the habitability of our planet, to stay below the safer level of warming 1.5 degrees celsius which we expect to reach, at least temporarily come this decade. amy: what are your plans now? >> i am planning to continue with research and activism and i hope to mobilize many more scientists and everyone else to

the cause. amy: maybe should be the next climate envoy of the united states. to rose abramoff, recently fired from the oak ridge national laboratory after urging other scientists to take action on climate change. we will lead to her "new york times" op-ed "i'm a scientist who spoke up about climate change. my employer ñl [♪♪]