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tv   France 24  LINKTV  January 25, 2023 5:30am-6:01am PST

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they are expected to be worth 20 million dollars. anchor: this is al jazeera and these are the top stories -- germany says it will not stand in the way of poland wants to send high-tech battle tanks to ukraine. kyiv sees the hardware is crucial to its defense. it follows days of pressure on berlin from ukraine's western allies. moscow's foreign minister has accused the west of trying to destroy everything russian. he made the comment after meeting his south african counterpart in victoria. south africa's government has maintained what it is calling a neutral position on the
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conflict. opposition party leaders in tanzania are welcoming a decision by the president to lift a ban on political rallies. the main opposition party held its first public rally in more than six years. the opposition leader has announced plans to return home on wednesday after years in exile. brazil's president has promised to improve ties with argentina which became strained under his predecessor. he's on his first foreign trip since taking office this month. he signed trade agreements with his argentinian counterpart. a former top fbi official who investigated russian oligarchs has been accused of working for one and violating u.s. sanctions. charles mcgonagle has been indicted for helping a russian billionaire who had been sanctioned. he has pleaded not guilty for criminal charges. reporter: this is a very senior
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former fbi officer who retired in 2018. even before he retired, he was carrying out activities which would have appeared to be helping the very person that as head of fbi counterintelligence he was supposed to be investigating. that is a russian oligarch who has been charged with -- he has been charged with assisting the oligarch placed on the restrictions list. anchor: electricity being resorted to large parts of pakistan after a power grid failure. it's the second major breakdown in three months. the headline news continues after inside story. >> there is no channel that covers world news like we do. as a roaming correspondent, i'm constantly on the go, covering topics from politics to conflict to environmental issues.
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the scale of this camp is like nothing you have ever seen. what we want to know is how do these things affect people? we revisit places we stay, even when there are no international headlines. al jazeera really invests in that and that is a privilege as a journalist. >> france's order to withdraw its troops from another african country, this time, burkina faso. what's behind the growing anger from the colonial power and what does it mean for the fight against armed groups in west africa? this is inside story. welcome to the program. burkina faso's military government has given french troops one month to leave the country according to state media. french forces are in the west
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african nation as part of a campaign to drive out fighters leaked -- links to isolate and al qaeda. it's estimated thousands have been killed since 2015 at nearly 3 million displaced by violence claimed on armed groups. demonstrations against the french soldiers presence have been held in the capital. reporter: protesters in burkina faso have been demanding france withdraw its troops from their country. they say the former colonial power has failed to protect them from armed groups. >> if france was our partner, it was supposed to help us fight against terrorism. but since 2016 there has been no change. we think france does not reporter: reporter: deserve our trust. now its military rulers have suspended a security accord with paris. they want french troops to leave with a month. france has been decreasing its
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deployments across the region and officially ended its operation last year. at its height, more than 5000 french troops were states and -- were stationed in the region. 400 french troops remain in burkina faso. molly, their former colony, ordered french troops out last year. some analysts say burkina faso is blaming france for its own failure to deal with an insurgency which left it with two military coups last year. >> france's the scapegoat for that. the french military presence has not prevented the progress of jihadist forces, so there is resentment in the population as there was in molly where some demonstrators were complaining france may be was an accomplice of some of these jihadist groups. reporter: gone as president has accused burkina faso of hiring a private russian army to crush
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armed fighters in the region. molly hired the mercenaries last year. the u.s., u.n. and others -- accuse the group of committing widespread human rights abuses. >> what the governments are saying is they want the ability to choose their security. reporter: violence in the west african nation has killed thousands of people and left 2 million people displaced. these demonstrators are demanding french forces go, but it is not clear how the military plans to reclaim 40% of the country outside its control. adrian: let's discuss all of this with our guests for today's program. we are joined by a policy analyst for development reimagined, and african policy
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consultancy. we are joined by the chair of the african security sector network, and african affairs think tank. and the director of at the africa program. welcome to you all. what has gone wrong in burkina faso's relationship with france and to what extent does it mirror what has happened in molly? -- in mali. guest: with regards to the divisions with france and colonial countries is the fact that there is divergence in approaches to addressing the immediate issue, which is security. in all of the countries, where we are seeing french troops
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withdraw. adrian: what do you mean by serious divergence? guest: you only have to look at the fact that there have been calls on this country -- we know france and western partners are -- have very much condemned these coups. when you look at the coups, the immediate security policy approaches to align with russia. so in the context of the ukraine war, there are serious grievances between the west and russia. it's unthinkable to think france will collaborate with the government. adrian: is burkina faso blaming france for its own failures in ridding the country of these armed groups?
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guest: i definitely think there is a need to have a historical sense of the current situation. in burkina faso, there is a tradition of protection of sovereignty which is coming from the late leader and the president last year. he was reluctant to any presence significant on the ground. it is important to know also that -- which is made of special forces from france has been active much more outside of tina faso. what is happening today is there
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has been a growing tendency on the streets as well as the public opinion at large to be very critical toward the french -african policy. it is important not to consider only -- it is the estimate of the russian president. adrian: why the dissatisfaction with the presence of the french troops? there's an accusation france has been complicit with those it's meant to be fighting. how much credence do you give to those allegations? guest: absolutely. in fact what happened is what was meant to fight terrorism and neutralize it has been completely failing from this and
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there has been a lot of surprise in the eyes of africans and i cannot understand the reason why such a modern and technological army with lots of armament has been unable to cope with jihadi uncertainties -- jihadi insurgencies. the growing trouble in public opinion and lots of terrorists imprisoned in france in western africa. this kind of terrorist has met a lot of success. and african organizations as well as more broadly in the population allows -- at large.
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adrian: let's put the point to alex in london. was france up to doing the job in the first place given the limited number of troops and put on the ground? it's not the u.s. -- it does not have the resources to deploy thousands and thousands of troops. guest: the context is from francophone west africa, there has been growing ambivalence about the relationship with france. this is nothing new. i saw it 20 years ago when i was working in the ivory coast. the insecurity there was partly a response to the idea of neocolonialism, that france was to entwined in the politics of those countries. that's the context of what france has been dealing with.
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intervention particularly in mali was supported by africans and relatively successful, but you are absolutely right that the operation that took place did not deliver the security others across the region were hoping for. that's the key to it has happened in burkina faso with authorities there saying the french special forces have a month to leave. they have not improved security. security is deteriorating. the big question is what will replace it? adrian: this was a region france once dominated. it has been gradually losing influence in recent years. why is that? how will paris deal with that in the long term?
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will it turn its back on the region? guest: president macron law -- i don't/a reconfiguration of the french security posture in west africa. it is a lot more focused on the coastal states, countries like the iv -- like the ivory coast. it looks at how it can complement other initiatives driven by african nations themselves. it includes both mali and burkina faso. that is what france is now looking at, how it can multilateral eyes through african partners in these initiatives to provide security. what is very clear is the coastal states are very worried
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about contagion into their own territories of jihadist groups related to al qaeda or isil and there have been attacks now in the north. the guineans are worried about contagion from burkina faso. adrian: let's pick up on that point -- what does the removal of troops mean for the security situation across the region given they have gone from mali also? guest: there is an immediate impact in the sense that to a large extent, burkina faso and the military in niger and mali would have to step up. but let's be serious. these armies do not have the capacity. they don't have the competence
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to deal with these problems. it does not mean they cannot view such capacities but from the onset, there's a lot of problems. also bear in mind, the 5000 troops the french had there, there are over 15,000 in the u.s. peacekeeping force helping these countries. it has not been able to deliver on the objectives, so there is a real problem. 20,000 forces -- the -- it's a huge loss but that is why it is important to stress the new security from russia is not
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going to address this problem. russia cannot provide the skill of military support needed. i'd don't see how it is possible for military contractors to work with the army that is fully equipped to -- it would need urgency -- i think it's going to be very challenging. it will cost, to poetic costs and financial costs, that is why there needs to be more thinking with regards to the choices of these partnerships. adrian: how much of a humiliation is this for france? will the withdrawal of french troops from working a faso and -- from burkina faso and mali,
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will it create a security vacuum in the region? guest: i think as just explained by my colleague, we cannot consider france has made any difference on the ground, nor any other international partner, which is also the case of russian private security company wagoner as we can see in mali, there have been attacks very close, only 50 kilometers from the capital. i'm not sure from a rational point of view that there -- we have to remember the special forces were only around 400 people.
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i think what is important today is to realize a need to develop a defensive approach to these questions, including in terms of political perspective to what is happening and it is an approach deadlocked by niger which is working with french troops having close relations with russia and turkey in terms of armament but also trying to develop dialogues with terrorist groups, including islamic state and groups related to adrian: al qaeda. adrian:-- adrian: let's turn our attention to russian mercenaries on the ground. i'm going to throw a bunch of questions that you hear. who is paying them and why? what is their mandate? what is their legal status?
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are they any better at bringing peace and security to the region than the french? guest: the russians have been invited in by mali. they were enumerated through access to mineral resources. as the allegation the president of ghana has made about the involvement of wagoner if it is confirmed in working a faso and elsewhere. they are increasingly looking as if wagner is an auxiliary force for the russian operation. the majority is deployed in the occupied territories of ukraine, but there is presence in africa.
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the track record of wagner has not been good by any means. they failed abysmally in late 2019. they have provided a praetorian guard situation of security for the presidency in the central african republic. as both of your other speakers have alluded to, they have. provided improved security in mali and i'm doubtful they are going to be able to do it in burkina faso. what we will see is further fragmentation in both mali and burkina faso of the military junta's. at the end of the day, the drivers are about improved security. it is clear to me as your previous speaker said, the solution isn't military companies but finding dialogue
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and internal settlements. what you have here are basically regimes based around capital cities which have increasingly got disenfranchised with the rest of their countries and therein lies the big problem. mali and burkina faso particularly have delegitimized administrations that are in control of the capital cities and having great faculty providing security beyond them. adrian: why is russia seen as a better partner in the region and france? what is in it for russia? what is its strategy in the region? guest: i think russia definitely is applying military diplomacy in its bid to build a relationship with african countries. we have to look at its current ventures in africa in the context of its own global
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standard and we know trying to reconnect with allies and of course this is part of its effort and he wants to speak -- that's his second visit in nine months. there's a lot of focus on the region. the countries in question, i think it is clear one of the regions why the juntas prefer russia is the fact that russia has backed regime security. that regime security has to be understood as a very small solution to a very large problem. this country has way more than security problems. adrian: therein lies the rub.
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the regime security -- inviting mercenaries to provide security, that is the un's job. what are the implications for the u.n. and its peacekeepers on the ground there? adrian: i'm not sure if that is a situation we can see in the central african republic where wagner's troops are protecting the government. in mali, you cannot see troops or contractors from wagner in the capital. they are mainly deployed in the central part of the country and so as regards to relations with
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the u.n. in the central african republic, there has been a kind of collaboration initially but it is not the case in mali. in burkina faso come you don't have any deployment but what is happening in mali and is likely to happen in burkina faso is the role of malicious which have been growing in terms of importance and we can see in central mali wagner trips together with the military and cooperating with local militias. one of the options deadlocked by the military government in burkina faso is to support and strengthen those kinds of forces. we could see a new kind of agreement between troops from russia and the local militia.
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adrian: sorry to cut you off but time is against us. we have not talked about the groups operating on the ground. why are these armed groups so focused on this region and why isn't that u.s. interested in chasing them out like it did in iraq and syria? guest: the u.s. has been involved and it trained up militaries in the region, a number of whom have stage coups. adrian: but not to the extent it has in iraq and syria. guest: no, not to that extent. it also has a footprint in niger. there is a drone facility there. but the main point is the united states thought it could subcontract the majority of responsibility for chasing jihadist groups to european partners, seeing this as abroad.
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that's france and other states like spain, italy and others. and washington is disappointed france is on the back foot, that is my understanding of the way washington is looking at this and they still provide intelligence to france and other western countries. adrian: many thanks indeed to all of you. thanks for being with us on inside story. thank you for watching. you can see the program again at any time by going to the website at al jazeera.com. for further discussion, join us on facebook.com. and the conversation will continue on twitter. from me and the team in doha, thanks for being with us.
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