>> stop plundering africa's resources as he visits war-torn countries. what impact would his visit have and what future does catholicism have in africa? this is inset story. welcome to the program. the visit to congo comes out of the struggles to contain western

violence. >> the pontiff between rival ethnic groups is taking its toll on civilians. the pope's aims to highlight this, but does he have the answers? >> it's the first time since 1983. this country has logos number of followers, about half of the 100 million people remember. pope francis was due to visit in the middle of last year but had some problems with his knee. the trip was postponed. the initial plan included a stop in eastern congo, escalating conflicts.

they have spoken about the forthcoming election which is due to be held at the end of this year. he says it must be free, faring double. he said it was poisonous greed for the vast mineral wealth which is fueling the conflict. >> the catholic church has significant influence where about half of the population identifies as roman catholic. it's interesting. the church was at central protest, he was forced to renounce a third term. in 2018, they were monitoring the election saying they wanted to ensure credible results. critics accuse them of meddling in politics. in 2020, they met to improve relations and now, the head of the church is there ahead of

elections this coming december. >> for more, i am joined by our guests. he is the correspondent for the tablet. in pennsylvania, a professor of theology. in chicago, a research professor. a warm welcome to all of you on incense story. faith is an important part for those who believe in a spiritual guide. what does the vatican hope to achieve later on in the week? >> faith is important to people

in the democratic republican of congo. the pope is here to remind of the mission of the church. civil war is ongoing. the trip is supported the charges and calling for peace. we will get into the intricacies of all those. limb sure theologians across the world and analysts will be closely watching the visits and

what he has to say will reverberate amongst the catholic church. >> catholicism is going through a delicate process of consultations, and thanks to that, the major issues that are now at the center on women, lgbt catholics. some of this question is divisive. we think a solecism in the western and african world. this is a less visible issue, especially because of the emphasis given by pope rinses to the social economic situation, this is something i believe is

in the background. >> let's begin our guest in chicago. this pope has made his point to highlight the unfairness of the global south and he is focusing a great deal in his addresses to the public. the rc might well be happy about this, generally they will be happy to see the pope there. ask definitely, you can see from the enthusiasm of the people how much this means to our people. it is in the post-covid moment, you remember during covid that many people predicted there would be dead bodies in the streets of africa. many people did not want the pope to go.

continuing stigmatization of africa. the pope is breaking this cycle by believing in the continent of africa. i think our people are so happy that the pope is turning his gaze to this continent that has so much to offer and marginalized and stigmatized in global politics. >> let's get to mossimo in pennsylvania. this visit was well-planned. the recent conflict we have been hearing about has changed the tone of what he is saying. how does this impact the public at large and diaspora? >> i believe the catholic church

has made influence. remember, previous visits happened under the dictatorship. now, the vatican is willing formed, one of the best diplomacy's in the world. this has been modified but was happening in some areas. i do not think this is been a surprise. people are well-informed.

i think this will modify the core message which is what we have heard yesterday. >> civilians, certainly the public will look for guidance. spiritual leaders like the pope do not want to interact and enter your with the politics in the country. this pope is very vocal, you touch a nerve, don't they? he is not backward or forward when it comes to issues with the drc. >> that's right. visiting is both the head of state and leader of the catholic church, the leaders of the country, he addressed them

yesterday in calling for the end of the exploitation of africa. as the leader of the church, talking about emphasizing what the church can do for peace, saying there could be no justification and anyone who is: themselves a christian must lay down their arms. he has that role he could utilize on the visit. of course, he does not have specific policy proposals. he comes as a person of faith and try to change the hearts and minds of people. that is the main resource he has at his disposal. you can see today there is a million people turning out for mass, that is a huge soft power influence and of course the

catholic church has been involved in trying to transition to democracy. in south sudan we will see similar self power to moderate and try and get the leaders to agree to peace. that is how he approached these things. >> this where there is a slight problem, certainly the catholic church. the pontiff is head of state and we have senior bishops and clergy who have been very open and being involved in politics, overseeing elections, making sure their witnesses. pressurizing a former president to relinquish in breaking with tradition of the constitution.

little history. does this create a problem where the pope feels uncomfortable with the way his clergy are behaving? >> on think so. you must understand that pope francis is one of the greatest hopes of our modern time. not simply the bishop. we're talking about the theology of the people. someone who just wants to remain at the level of what they're doing. he emphasizes this aspect.

we had been together. the broken bonds of society. suffering in a country like drc. that's a country that is potentially -- the pope is going to not impose the cries of the people and valorize the agencies of the people, especially ordinary folks, people who are outside. it's about meeting the bishop, he is also meeting young people.

>> obviously, he is just said he wants to bring peace to a region that is so traumatized but this is a listed approach, not just the drc. around 40% are catholics. has the vatican missed it by not involving through on that itinerary? proxies that are fighting east of the country. >> that's true, and something some members of the kohler g -- clergy had spoken about openly. when the pope travels and does his job and a trip abroad, this

is on the one side the message of peace, justice, reconciliation and speaking truth to power. the other element is diplomacy. the pope travels as a religious leader, but also as the head of state. all these elements are carefully considered when these features are drafted. one final thing. it's important to pay attention

to what the pope does not say. these are silences that are usually picked up by licenses. we should not expect this line from a boat who in one country against the neighboring country, especially when there are intra-catholic issues. this is something that has not been missed. 's prophecy and diplomacy at the same time. >> it is a delicate balance, isn't it. he knows with the problems are. diamonds, gold. international players. add to the mix the insurgency across the border skirmish that's ongoing for decades.

why does he start trying to reconcile these disparate groups? >> it's a complicated situation. what i have been struck by is not held back in identifying the problems and injustices, he does not name names, but there are outside interests who are fueling conflict to create, desire to control, economic colonialism. he is able to speak out clearly. he is able to lay out, he is

able to keep diplomatic channels open but is unable to condemn individuals. the president and his speech, the pope named rwanda as fueling the conflict. the pope responded i sang -- responded by saying there is a forgotten genocide. there are ways to make points without laying out individuals. >> let's talk about the fact that the pope and congolese president have a different plan. the pope is in town, the president knows, those were his words. it will get a lot of airtime globally. how much pressure does that put

on groups? they are watching very carefully once happening and what is being said. >> there is enormous pressure. going back to what was said, the pope has invited the bishops. he is meeting with these bishops , because as you know, the catholic church in africa is a well-connected, well audited oiled machine. there is movement because interest is majority catholic. there is a norms pressure being

brought by the catholic bishop of congo. the current president is feeling the pressure. like every other politician, is trying to use that logic. i think pope francis is focused on what he thinks and seizes the problem. that's consistent with his message, a political leader must take responsibility. congo is suffering not because of the past, but present. the two presidents must come to the dialog table.

that's the tradition, they have to do this for the sake of our people that are dying every day because of this conflict. >>, undertake. >> i just wanted to mention that there is pressure, but as a sideshow, this is happening in italy and europe. there has been coverage with the pope in italy, dictators lamenting that the new pope is devoting too much attention to

africa and has forgotten europe. this is interesting because this shows how disruptive pope francis has been for the catholic culture of white men in europe. these pressures are very evident , there are other pressures behind the scenes, he is seen as to attentive. . >> introducing you say disruptive. that feeds into my next question. the pope says hands-off the democratic republic of congo. stop choking africa. in terms of the disruptive elements, he's basically

highlighting the developed countries. countries that have used these resources to build up their own financial health and that focuses uncomfortable. >> absolutely. france has had a radical social message, and part of that message is the pope wants the church to go to the periphery and take the message of the gospel out the way from the traditional heartland of catholic power and go out to those countries which are suffering to speak prophetically and truth to power. it is striking being here when you compare the reception the pope has gotten, when he is

saying and talking about some things in recent weeks, disgruntled former officials lamenting the vatican. seemed that another planet you look at the work the church is doing health care, you think that this is where the church is now, today, and the church of the future. majority of the population in congo are under 24. this is the future of catholicism. we are witnessing a shift in the power balance in places such as democratic republic of congo and south sudan. >> quick questions here. the catholic church is becoming more relevant to a younger

population. the pope thinks the future is in africa. let's the question about the divide between young people in the faith and older? >> there is a huge divide. africa has entered the digital world. the challenge today is whether applicants can take advantage of the pope, giving africa a voice. then, for people that have been held in the sold form of catholicism. there are many african bishops who are very comfortable celebrating mass in latin. the one to restore imaginary

glory in africa. even in congo, there are new churches emerging. these are new churches. many young people are leaving the traditional eurocentric tradition, not only of catholicism but the mainline churches and finding homes in the pencil coastal and evangelical groups in africa. i think there is a great divide in pope francis is trying to break the divide by creating the freedom to really speak our own voices.

>> thank you very much. final word, what the true legacy of this trip will be. >> it's important. the future is global catholicism and it will look significantly different from the eurocentric charge. >> we will see what the legacy will be. to love my guest, peggy. just to all of my guests, thank you. >> see the program any time by visiting our website, for further discussion, go to our facebook page. join the conversation on twitter

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