02/15/23 02/15/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! pres. biden: if russia invades, that means tanks and troops crossing the border of ukraine again, then there will be no longer a nord stream 2. >> i a in the administration is very gratified to know nord stream 2 is a hunk of metal a

the bottom of the sea. amy: as the first anniversary of russia's invasion of ukraine apoaches, we look at one of the great mysteries of the past year -- who blew up the nord stream pipeline connecting russia to germany. we will speak with legendary pulitzer prize-winning journalist seymour hersh. his latest article is headlined "how america took out the nord stream pipeline." then we go to michigan where vigils were held tuesday night to remember the three michigan state university students killed in yet another mass shooting. >> we are all broken by an all-too-familiar feeling, another place that is supposed to be about community and togetherness shattered by bulletand bloodshed. we know this is a uniquely american problem. amy: since the beginning of this

year, on average, there have been more than one mass shooting a day in united states. we will go to michigan to speak with professor and also talk to a gun control activist who lost his sister in the parkland high school massacre five years ago this week. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. a convoy of u.n. aid trucks passed through a newly re-opened border crossing into northwestern syria tuesday, where some earthquake survivors have been waiting for help for over a week. in turkiye, nine survivors were pulled from the wreckage tuesday as the death toll from last monday's 7.8 magnitude earthquake and aftershocks topped 41,000 across turkiye and syria. the world health organization warned of the risk of waterborne

diseases amid the massive destruction and displacement in both countries. medical workers also report lots of patients with mental health concerns including ptsd. this is a unicef worker in syria. >> thousands of children -- a crisis within a crisis where they continue to face displacement, fear, extreme cold weather. collective shelters -- [indiscernible] amy: the united nations says it needs $5.6 billion to help address the humanitarian crisis in ukraine and to help the millions who fled the country since russia's invasion began almost a year ago. the u.n. estimates nearly 22 million ukrainians depend on humanitarian assistance.

this comes as nato says russia's eastern offensive has begun as moscow aims to capture they strategic city of bakhmut. the ukrainian military ordered aid groups to leave the city earlier this week. kyiv says it has repelled russian attacks on luhansk. meanwhile, the pentagon is seeking to restart a program to place u.s. special operations forces inside ukraine. in other news on the war, a state department-backed report has accused russia of holding at least 6000 ukrainian children at facilities in occupied crimea and russia. state department spokesperson ned price criticized the russia program on tuesday. >> putin seeks to rob ukraine of its future by taking its children. the kremlin systematic efforts to deny and suppress ukraine's identity, history, and culture. amy: an israeli soldier has been

jailed for 10 days after he attacked prominent palestinian activist issa amro as he was being interviewed by new yorker journalist and pulitzer prize winning author lawrence wright. the assault took place in hebron in the occupied west bank. amro spoke after the attack. >> i see there is a huge escalation from the israeli soldiers and settlers toward palestinian and human rights aid. we have real life threats. i feel my life is in danger. what happened, that soldier was wild and he did not care about the presence of a permanent international journalist -- they don't care anymore even about journalists. they feel they are backed up by their own government and system. amy: a twitter video of the attack posted by lawrence wright has gone viral.

israel's far-right national security minister itamar ben-gvir has expressed full support of the israeli soldier attacking the palestinian activist. this comes amid escalating violence against palestinians with israeli soldiers killing another two people, including a teenager, during a raid on the far'a refugee camp in northern occupied west bank tuesday. israel has killed at least 50 palestinians, including 11 children, since the start of the year. the biden administration has withdrawn its nomination of a prominent human rights attorney james cavallaro to serve on the inter-american commission on human rights over the attorney's past comments describing israel as a "apartheid state" and for criticizing house minority leader hakeem jeffries' close ties to aipac, the american israel public affairs committee. cavallaro is co-founder and executive director of the university network for human rights. he has previously served on the

inter-american commission on human rights from 2014 to 2017. writing on twitter, cavallaro decried what he described as "censorship of human rights advocates who denounce apartheid in israel." indian tax officials raided the bbc's offices in new delhi and mumbai for a second day today amid an ongoing firestorm over a new bbc documentary about prime minister narendra modi. modi has banned the film, which in part covers his time as chief minister of gujarat, when he was accused of complicity in the deadly 2002 anti-muslim riots which killed an estimated 1000 people. students have been arrested for showing or attempting to show the film. independence fighters in the indonesian region of papua have taken a pilot from new zealand hostage after he landed his plane on a remote airstrip.

members of the west papua national liberation army have vowed to hold the pilot philip mehrtens until the indonesian government acknowledges papuan independence. the liberation group released photos of the pilot along with a brief video statement from one of the group's commanders. >> we will not release without the freedom of papua and we will continue detaining the pilot so the whole country should open their eyes and acknowledge the freedom of papua. amy: in new zealand, cyclone gabrielle has killed at least four people and left a trail of destruction as it moved away from the country while rescue and recovery efforts continue. hundreds of people were rescued from rooftops due to rising waters. prime minister chris hipkins called gabrielle the worst storm to hit new zealand in the past century. new zealand's climate change minister james shaw delivered a scathing condemnation of

governmental and action on the -- inaction on the climate crisis, which is contributing to more frequent and more devastating weather events. >> i don't think i have felt sad or angry about the lost decades arguing about whether climate change was real or not, whether it was caused by humans or not, whether it was bad or not, whether we should do something about it or not because it is clearly here now. and if we do not act, it will get worse. amy: in the u.k., activists with the group just stop oil delivered an ultimatum to prime minister rishi sunak, warning the british government must stop any new fossil fuel licenses after april 10 or deal with escalating disruption from the youth activists. the climate group is known for its high profile acts of nonviolent direct action and disrupting public spaces such as art museums and roads to bring public awareness to the urgency of the climate crisis. this is activist hannah hunt.

>> instead of responding to the wishes of the british people by implementing policies that throw millions into destitution, while enabling fossil fuel companies to make the largest profit in u.k. history, for the government to win, it will have to defeat the youth of this country. we will put our bodies on the line. amy: as that action was taking place in in u.k., climate activists with extinction rebellion blocked private jet terminals at luton airport, outside london, holding a banner that read "tax frequent flyers." here in new york, dozens of extinction rebellion activists protested in front of citigroup to demand it stop investing in fossil fuel expansion. citi is the world's second largest financier of fossil fuels after jpmorgan chase. brazil's far-right former president jair bolsonaro told "the wall street journal" he

plans to return to brazil in march to lead the opposition and face accusations he incited last month's attack by rabid supporters on government buildings in brasilia. bolsonaro, who never conceded defeat to president luiz inácio lula da silva in last october's election, has been in florida since december. u.s. authorities have arrested four more suspects in connection with the 2021 assassination of haitian president jovenel moise. the four men were arrested in florida and three were charged by the justice department with conspiracy to kidnap or kill outside the united states. one suspect was charged with smuggling ballistic vests. three of the men are u.s. citizens, and the fourth is a permanent resident according to the u.s. attorney's office for the southern district of florida. this is u.s. assistant attorney general matthew olsen. >> according to the complaint,

three of the defendants arrested today operated businesses here in south florida and hope to read benefits from security and construction contracts to be granted by those who they believe pursued power in haiti following the demise of president moise. amy: the biden administration said tuesday it has not uncovered any evidence three identified flying objects shot down over the weekend er north american territory are connected to a chinese, or any other nation's, surveillance program. national security council spokesperson john kirby said the objects could turn out to be related to commercial or research efforts. bloomberg reports the raytheon-produced missiles used by the u.s. to shoot down the objects come at a cost of around $440,000 each. south dakota's republican governor kristi noem signed into law a bill banning surgical and non-surgical gender-affirming treatment for young people starting july 1.

medical providers who violate the law could face civil suits or lose their licenses. south dakota is the sixth state to enact such a law. tennessee could be next as republican lawmakers advanced a similar bill monday. the aclu and others have vowed to challenge it. the aclu's chase strangio wrote -- "by shifting from 'safety' to 'privacy,' the rhetoric fueling anti-trans bills placed the 'problem' squarely on the body and existence of trans people. it was not something we did but just who we are and how we look that was the problem." and california democratic senator dianne feinstein announced she will not seek reelection in 2024. the move was widely expected by the 89-year-old feinstein, who was first elected as u.s. senator in 1992 and is the oldest sitting member of congress. she is also the longest-serving woman senator, as well as the

first woman to chair the senate judiciary committee. she was the first woman mayor of san francisco. two california congressmembers, katie porter and adam schiff, already announced they would run for the open seat, with nancy pelosi throwing her support behind schiff. congressmember barbara lee has reportedly shared with colleagues she will also launch a bid for the seat. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. coming up, pulitzer prize prize-winning journalist seymour hersh. he will talk about his latest article "how america took out the nord stream pipeline." stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman, joined by my cohost juan goález in chicago. hi, juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: we begin today's with the legendary pulitzer prize prize-winning journalist seymour hersh. in 1970, he won the pulitzer prize for his reporting on the my lai massacre when the u.s. slaughtered more than 500 vietnamese women, children, and old men on march 16, 1968. his reporting and "the new york times" on cia spying on anti-war activists during the vietnam war era helped lead to the formation of the church committee, which led to major reforms of the intelligence community.

in 2004, he exposed the abu ghraib prisoner abuse scandal in iraq. well, last week he published another bombshell report on his new substack page. the piece was headlined "how america took out the nord stream pipeline." it looks at one of the great mysteries of the past year -- who was behind the bombing of the nord stream pipelines, which were built to carry natural gas from russia to europe. the pipelines were severely damaged last september in a series of underwater explosions in the baltic sea. in his new piece, sy hersh cites an unnamed source who says the sabotage was carried out by the u.s. navy, which planted remotely triggered explosives during nato exercises last september. hersh reports the biden administration began planning

the act of sabotage in december 2021, two months before russia's invasion of ukraine. on february 7, 2022, president biden held joint new conference with german ancellorlaf scholz a biden brought up the future of the rd stream pipeline. pres. biden: invades, that means tanks and troops crossing the border of ukraine again, then there will be no longer a nord stream 2. we will bring an end to it. >> how you do that? exactly, since the project and control of the project in germany -- pres. biden: i promise you we will be able to do it. amy: "i promise you we will be able to do it." sy hersh reports u.s. navy divers planted remotely

triggered explosives on the pipelines in june while nato was conducting military exercises in the area. he reports the divers were all members of the navy and not members of an american special operations command, whose covert operations must be reported to congress. then on september 25, 20, a norwegian surveillance plane dropped a sonar buoy which triggered the c4 explosives that had been placed on the pipeline. soon after the explosion, the united states strongly suggested russia was behind blowing up its own pipeline. this is national security advisor jake sullivan responding to a question at a white house press briefing. >> the president called the nord stream pipeline attack "a deliberate act of sabotage" and said "now the russians are pumping out misinformation and lies about it." does the u.s. now believe that russia was likely responsible

for this act of sabotage? >> first, russia has done what it frequently does when it is responsible for something, which is to make accusations it was someone else who did it. we have seen this repeatedly. the president was clear there is more work to do on the investigation before the united states government is prepared to make an attribution in this case. amy: in the following months, there have been few public disclosures about the pipeline explosion. in december, "the new york times" reported russia had begun expensive repairs on the pipelines, a move which has raised questions about western claims that ssia had bombed its own pipelines. meanwhile, some biden officials have publicly praised the fact that the pipeline was blown up. this is under secretary of state for political affairs victoria nuland speaking during a recent senate foreign relations committee hearing. >> i am, and i think the administration, is very gratified to know nord stream 2 is now a hunk of metal at the bottom of the sea. amy: we are joined now by

pulitzer prize winning journalist seymour hersh to talk more about his new piece "how america took out the nord stream pipeline." while the white house has described hersh's reporting as "complete fiction," calls are growing for an independent probe into the explosion. sy hersh, welcome back to democracy now! if you can flesh out what it is you found in your report and what first tipped you off, albeit there were a lot of public comments, including the polish government right after the bombing saying, thank you, america. lay it out for us. >> i think reporting can be described as a friend of mine did, what i did was deconstruct the obvious. you have to hear with the president said. but of course there were more planes i'm writing about and they include -there was a

committee set up, jake sullan is directly involved. it was the national security advisor and. they set up a team to look at how to put pressure on the russian government to back off. i'm getting a bounce in my ear. can you hear me? amy: hear you perfectly. >> that's great. anyway, so there was -- i'm writing about the normal things you do. they set up a committee to think of options. russia was clearly going to go. the threat the president had yet to make had not been made and this is before new year's day of the or before 2021. the usual cia, state department, you name it, they met in a

secret office building across the street from the white house. e option was, do you want us to do something kinetic or something not kinetic? not kinetic woul be more sanctions and somethinginetic would be taking out the pipeline. as had been thought about. an answer came pretty quickly. i would guess victoria nuland's statement came before the president, came late january of last year. that stement think the committee involved, a lot of assistance to people in the intelligence and operations community concluded you could do it. i think that led to the comments whic made e people on the insi go ha crazy because it was supped to be completely covert. at that point, it was described as a classified operation.

so they began thr planning. they went to a great ally of ours, one of the iginal signers of the949 nato treaty -- i think 19 nations were involved then. rway is a great ally. i write about this isome detail in the article. hundreds of millions, probably more, operating facities. 1400 mile border along the atlantic coast. it goes from oslo all the way up north into the russian border about the arctic circle. we put a lot of facilities up north. radar that cost a fortune to monitor the russian nuclear sites and literary sites -- military. also great at doing -- that is

what we did. we did a plan with them. we had to clear it with sweden and denmark. i will leave it to them to decide if they accepted these exercises inhe baltic sea f the hell it. so f i have t seen mh from either of them. i do my story on substack. i would not even think -- i am embarrassed to say this wonderful years i had at "the new york times," i was not even thinking of a story like this for "the new york times." i just did my reporting. the miners came from a very -- facility and a small town in florida. the miningommunity and the navy is very secret.

they just do their business. they don't talk. they practiced it. as you said, there's a major exercise every summer. the americas sixth fleet which control also has the operational rights in the baltic sea must of the baltic sea is a huge place. the pipelines, nord stream 1 that came alive in 2011 and nord stream 2 was done but the germans -- 750 miles. they go straight from russia, loaded with all kinds of gas -- in siberia, enormous reserves -- directly into germany. nord stream 1 was a god stream for the german economy and western europe. -- godsend for the german economy and western europe. they were able to resell gas at a profit without russia objecting. the german economy is huge

booming. the cars we know about. germany has the largest chemical company in the world. everybody right now has hell to pay. it is very cold. there is a lot of anger. juan: i wanted to ask you, in terms of the lack -- it ways seemed to me when the claims we potentially russia had sabotaged its own pipeline that it was ludicrous to think that would be so, that they would invest so much money in pipelines and then bomb them themselves. i am interested in the lack of press attention since the sabotage occurred, and also t lack of congressional attention. i thinkack to the cia's mining of the harbors back in the early 1980's under the reagan administration when the

conservative republican head of the senate intelligence committee. goldwater objected and raised concerns this was a covert operation where congress was not notified, and then of course, congress cut off aid to the contras as a result. there was an international court of justice ruling against the united states. but in this case, this kind of sabotage, the media seems not to be at all interested in finding out what happened here as you have an congress -- there is no one in congress that has been raising questions. >> you listen to the newscast that we just heard as the show en. i think the world has taken a very bizarre turn. it doesn't matter what i think. no questioaire has been a polarizati of the press. we're now on two sis, right, left, democrat, republican, however you describe it. you watch fox news, watcmsnbc.

if you read "the new york times," you're not goingo get -- the conservatives have been after "the new york times" so there is polarization going on. at this time you a democratic president that has done some good stuff domestically, but i can tell you i am not understanding the total commitment to ukraine. obviously, i have access to a lotf people who see things. i have been doing this, writing about covert activities for i don't know, 300 years. anyway, the bottom line is the stories i have been getting about the war, particularly beginning in fall where it gets interesting and pretty dire, i think the end is just a question of time. right now it is a question of having more people zelenskyy wants toill of his own peopl itill be over. what happens is the planas to put the bomb -- i can't answer your philosophical question

about why congress i't doin anything anymore. congress is pretty much polarized. there is any enormous continuing of hatred of all things putin and this country, which is foreign policy disagreements are one thing but it is very personal here and it is not useful. i don't think there's any chance putin wants to take over europe. he wts to have ukraine tamed but no interted -i may be in the minority. anyway, what happens is there was an exercise in june and it was supposed to -- the bombs were put in there under the cover of a nato exercise. there were a lot of different countries running around with divers and blowing up things. it was an exercise -- whoever in the cia or the other agencies that thought this up should get

-- it was pretty ingenious. the divers went down and did what they were trained to do. c4, bombs enough to blow up buildings in washington and maybe some in new york. anyw, they did their job. the president at the last minute hesitated because he was afraid blowing it up right after the exercise would p the finger at us. then he wanted permission to do -- it caused -- pple are sophisticated in the intelligence services. the bottom line is, this made sense of them blowing up a pipeline -- it is actually owned by a division [indiscernible]

49% of nord stream 1 are owned by four businesses in europe. they saw the threat as being valid. if you wanted to do it during an exercise, well, ok. but in september, they got the word -- they fixed it so they could and then i don't know what they ought but i don't think they thought in late septber he would blow up the main pipeline nord stream 2, wch is a new one that h been just built. it had gas in it. 750 miles of methane gas were sitting in it. it had been sanctioned by the german government. when he did that, here is what biden did and i think the ultimateoint of the story and whso many people, even the intelligence committee, are very troubled by it. what he did is he said, i am in a big war with ukraine and it is not looking good and i want to make sure i get german and west

eupean support and i know winter is coming and if it is going to be bad, i don't want the germans to say, we have to check out because you're getting -- we will be massacred with no cheap fuel and our economy will go bkers. we're going to check out and open the gas line. which they could do. so they took away that option. what that had done, you know, america has been talking about ever since nd stream 1 ce onlinen 2011 and there were years before when it was being built, this goes back to the bush-cheneyears, and as you know, i did a lot of reporti for "new yorker" on those people. anay, at that time, they began talking about the teat of gas, the threat of cheap energy for europe was already seen as a threat to make europe the more

willing to trade with russia. we always wanted to isolate russia. this has been a theme of the last decade. juan: can i ask you also, there are several people -- obviously, have gotten criticism at times for many of your exposés, but there are some people who are saying this particular exposé does not have a whole lot of documentation that it essentially relies on one source -- one internal source, anonymous source of yours. how do you respond to those criticisms that this is a much less documented than previous exposés of yours? >> i will get to that. let me finish my point because it is a very important thought. the fear was europe would walk away from the war. now what he has dones he has told europe, your second rate.

i think the consequences of this with europeans are going to be horrific. cut into the notion they can depend tallyn america even in a crisis. i think it will nato, which i always thought would be supremeluseless. european countries are going -- i know people who are paying five times as much now for electricity, paying three or four times more for gas. very expensive. colder now because of climate change, if you want to believe it or not. the consequences politically for us are enormous. i think the reason biden and the people in the whiteouse deny the story and continue to deny it and get accepted -- [indiscernible] i think the consequences politically looking at even potential some countries walking out of nato.

that iwhat he thks. it is less important for him t keep the war going he is not going to win -- to answer the source question. i have been doing this so long, i'm not bothered by the fact government -- the newspaper hasn't written a word about it. that is where we are. that is what people -- don't have to worry about censorship. but i don't talk about sources. i am lky. i had 20 or 30 or 40 years people decide not only are faithful to what they're doing but are not afraid to be critical of it. that is the kind of urce -- reporters, you know, dream about. i've had people like that forever. d i still do. there's been a lot of

criticisms. i will get your point about criticisms. one is the open source people, their people who monitor air traffic and boat traffic and all that and her two or three different groups that produced statement say none of the things they see tracks with my story. if you are in the intelligence committee -- we are working closely with the norwegians on this, who have increase the production of oil to europe by doub. it has gone up at least double, maybe even more, 2.5 times more without the pipeline. but the first thing you look at is how to take care of open-source people, make them think what happens isn't happening. that is obvious to me but not to them. amy: i want to go to what ned price set at the state department.

he was questioned about your reporting last week >> i'm sure you are aware of seymour hersh's article "how america took out the nord stream pipeline." secretary state new lynn saying -- two think the u.s. government denial of involvement is edible? >> i absolutely do and i repeat it here >> have you or anyone here at the state department been in communication with german ambassadors or other allies on this matter? >> on the matter of nord stream 2? >> on the latest allegations, which give -- it is anonymous

source -- >> it would not be -- it would not be typical for us to engage allies and partners on something that is utter incomplete nonsense and should be rejected out of hand anyone who looking at it through an objective lens. >> one more aspect. one of the allegations that hirsch makes is it was taken off the cia in order to prevent involvement oversight as a covert operation. did you read the piece? >> i am for all your with it. >> one of its allegations as it was taken off -- close rather than let this propaganda be aired in the briefing room, let's -- let me say it is a final misunderstanding of oversight in our u.s. congress. beyond getting his facts entirely wrong, as he has before and very high ways, it is a fundamental misunderstanding to suggest our intelligence community is not subject to

oversight. anyone who writes that, in what writes anything like that -- >> it was taken off the cia and put under military in order -- >> our military is also subject to rigorous oversight. amy: so that is ned price being questioned by sam husseini in the state department press briefing room. sy hersh, can you respond? you wrote an interesting follow-up today on substack called "crap on the wall." you are actually quoting the white house when the bizarre effort came from defense department of donald rumsfeld you right, two decades ago, secretary rumsfeld and vice president cheney discarded the rule of law and common decency in their efforts to stop. muslim terrorism. i was running for the new yorker . the white house responded to an

article i published about the cia secret operations i inside ran by calling another example of hersh throwing crap on the wall to see what sticks. under barack obama, say a senior national security advisor responded seymour hersh is a known fabricator, adding the new yorker could publish that response to any future hersh story without further checking. your response to all of this? >> my mother who came here as an immigrant, loved america more than anyone, she would've said, you shouldave washed his mouth out th soap. what can i say? sometimes different versions of a story cause problems. the reason i went into the

soliloquy about what is going to happen possibly in nato in europe- and europe, we would rather keep our war going -- you can say cold and i think will cause some countries to say, we are out of here. what do we need nato for an american support? but in a crisis, they take away our ability to keep our people warm. the green party done well in germany. e chances -- i think will lead to widespread conservative movement politically. one thing we did after world war ii, rebuilt political society. i think it could lead -- it won't go as far as italy. could lead to conservative victories, subsequent legislations. europe has always had no natural resources.

they have always had to rely on others. russian gas. if we were to stop that off, we do it at a political cost. the point i am making, i'm still going to do more reporting on this. there are still things i need to write about later. this is probably --nd if you of some of the people who did it, one of the dumbest things american government has done in yes and we have had four years of trump. in the long run, don't understand why more newspapers, good newspapers like "the times," -- i still read it. i don't believe everything they say about ukraine, but they have wonderful reporters. if we got rid of 90% of the editors of the world, we would be much better off. i don't care what they say. if i did, i would weep because some of this stuff is so dumb. it is just so dumb. the biden administration putting

ned price -- he had a career in intelligence. i know people that know him personally. he is a fine guy. he is told what to say. and he said it. juan: -- >> let me say this. yet to go back to tony blinken. after the bombing in september, he made a speech in which he made a gratuitous statement and said, one good thing no more will russia be able to weaponize gas. the notion of russia weaponizing gas for western europe and diminish our power or authority for economic ability, control over western europe, has been theme of this country for two decades. it is not a new theme. oil scarcity -- russian oil

always scares the hell -- juan: the norwegian government has claimed one of the ships that you mentioned in your article that was involved in the planning of this or preparation of this was not present at the time of these exercises. what do you make of norway's denial? >> let me tell you something about nicaragua if you don't know. one of the things that happen in nicaragua, the cia -- thrilled, excited. there were speeches. even in the worst of times. they would go in little motorboats off the beaches and shoot and have contest -- they would just shoot and know there were casualties. they would have a lot of fun bragging about it.

that is the kind of stuff you get when you have a covert operatio the norwegian government -- i'm sorry. i dropped something. not only did that ship hav-- was in the operation, it also had a compression chamber flown in by the cia. the divers had 260 feet, that is a level. the norwegians found the lowest level, the shallowest part of the baltic sea, which is near denmark. they we practice there. they had to. for the divers, 260 feet deep. the pipeline covered by concrete shields. serious job to blow them up. 260 without a compression

chamber, they would have to go up every 90 feet. it is amazing to me, their breathing oxygen, nitrogen, and helium. that is amazing to me. they have to go up -- now they could just pop up to the surface. the ship was there. they did not have to stay there. they could go and the guys could jump off. there was no long recovery. at a certain time they would come up. the time was fixed. you don't drop explosives like that and -- you have a timer to giveivers time to get to the top. on that ship there was a decompression chamber that have been flown in by the cia. this was a brilliant operation.

because they got away with it. at that point, the purpose was to make the threat credible. but then you hav the president and the undersecretary state within a week orwo of getting word that it is credible, we can do it, stop loving about it -- that was disillusioning to the people. i can't talk about. you could say it is not true, i inveed it. look, i watch my mail, my gil and i see more than i want, i've seen more messages from around the world, different countries streaming in. i haveeen something. by the way, substack -- i did not know about substack. it is an amazing platform. they had more than a million hi on it within a day.

the messages i got from people saying,e mied the kind of reporting that you and others have done. we don't see it anymore. i'm not talking aboutour show, amy. i guarantee that. amy: seymour hersh, thank you for being with us, pulitzer prize winning journalist. we will link to your new piece on substack "how america took out the nord stream pipeline." coming up, we go to mission where visuals were held tuesday night to remember the three slain michigan state students killed in yet another mass shooting. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. the michigan state university community is grieving after a mass shooting on campus monday night when a gunman killed three students and severely wounded five more. the name of the slain msu students have been released -- arielle anderson, alexandria verner, and brian fraser. according to the gun violence archive, this was the 67tmass

shooting in the united states this year. on average, more than one mass shooting day in this country. since the beginning of january. this comes as democratic michigan governor and others responded to the shooting by calling for more gun control laws. president biden also called for more gun control, calling for an assault weapons ban as he mourned those killed at msu and marked the fifth anniversary of the 2018 parkman has gone massacre which 17 people were killed on valentine's day. for more, we are joined in detroit by dr. mona hanna-attisha, michigan state university college of human medicine professor and director of the pediatric public health initiative. she is a flint-based pediatrician and also the author of "what the eyes don't see: a story of crisis, resistance, and hope in an amerin city." and with this in washington, d.c. robert schentrup, who's , sister carmen was killed in the parkland mass shooting five years ago this week. he is a gun violence prevention advocate and a co-founder of the

brady youth initiative "team enough." we welcome you both to democracy now! dr. mona, this is your university. you have your governor witmer saying this is uniquely american problem. talk about the fallout and what you're calling for. >> this happened in our backyard, and i think we hear about this every day in the news and we don't expect it to happen where we work, live, where we go to school. 8:00 p.m., i got a text, phone call, i naloxone another michigan state faculty students and staff that said run, hide, fight. to get a message like that is surreal. this is not how we should be raising our children, not how we protect our children. there are so much we can do. 70 great gun-control legislation that we need to put into place.

michigan is now gerrymandered. the democrats are in control of the state legislature for the first time in 40 years. i think we will see gun control legislation -- not enough but in important start. juan: dr.ona, could you talk about why gun vience is now such a pubc health crisis, especially with children and what steps are taken to prevent this kind of violence? >> the number one killer of children is guns. it exceeds motor vehicle accidents, cancer, it exceeds anything i treat in my clinic. the number one killer of children is guns. we have more guns than people in this country. it is impacting our children in so many ways. any mass shooting triggers trauma for our children. i have two little kids. when they have drills, they come

home on edge. it is a community level trauma. we have to treat it like a public health crisis that it is and we have to put to place the evidence-based tools to prevent these crises. we know what we can do. we can limit the use of them, the purchase of them. that ground checks and red flag laws and there are things that we do every day as clinicians in terms of injury prevention can also limit access, but we cannot do this alone. we need policies. we need child safety policies. we need assault weapons bans and more policy tools to protect children to address this epidemic of gun violence. once again, the number one killer of children. amy: i want to bring robert schentrup into this conversation. his sister carmen, killed in parkland at the high school five years ago on valentine's day yesterday. you are now with the brady youth

initiativeteam enough." each time the mass shooting happens, which are so frequent, i think about what all of you go through, those who have lived through, those who have been injured in the past massacres like your sister who was killed. if you can respond to what took place this week and what you're doing right now, how the law jam will be broken around gun control. there are people who are mentally ill all over the world, and it is not just mentally ill people, we're talking about a whole group of people who are angry, they are overwhelmingly almost all men, but they don't have automatic weapons or pistols. instead of punching someone, they can kill 17 people in one fell swoop. >> thank you for having me on. as you mentionthe events of

this week are emblematic of the epidemic of gun violence. from my personal experience, growing up in parkland, going to marjory stoneman douglas high school, having my two sisters go there and having my sister carmen killed in the parkland shooting, my story is all too familiar to american tragedy. we have seen in the five years since parkland, which we commemorated last evening here in the district, we really wanted to highlight the types of gun violence that happens every single day. over 110 people are shot and killed every day in america. that number is going up. the incidence like parkland, like the tragedy that happened at michigan state a couple of days ago, like the tragedy at northern illinois university over 15 years ago february 14, these are things that continue to happen and young people bear

the brunt of this issue. as we just heard from the doctor earlier, young people for the first time -- deleting death's gun violence for the first time. this is something that is an issue that we have done nothing about for decades up until this year the federal level. it is an issue that keeps compounding and getting moore's. -- getting worse. i want to highlight the story of a survivor from the michigan state university shooting was also a survivor of sandy hook. young people now experience gun violence multiple times throughout our lives. this is something -- if yes like we cannot escape it. it is something that is so common that these doors are only going to continue to happen. unless we do something. how do we break this logjam? we just saw this summer for the first time in nearly 30 years,

legislation passed to reduce gun violence. that is really important. up until pretty much when it happens, a lot of the conversation was, oh, this is normal, what are we going to do, and the consensus was, change at the federal level was something that should happen but probably wasn't going to. and we sell within a couple of weeks, that changed. the reason it changed was there was public pressure, people were being outspoken, and there was a push to hold politicians accountable because we know this issue of gun violence is preventable. we see our pure nations do not have this problem. it is only the u.s. that we have easy access to firearms and oversaturation in our communities where we really see this issue processed. amy: we have five seconds. do you think the answer is in assault weapons ban? >> we do.

at brady united, we support a slate of coverings of solutions to prevent gun violence. you can read it online. amy: thanks for being with us, robert schentrup of brady youth initiative "team enough."

♪ hello and welcome to nhk "newsline." i'm catherine kobayashi in new york. ukrainian soldiers have fired