how will the african unit -- how will the african union manage the continent? ♪ hello and welcome to the program. leaders from 55 african nations are attending the annual summit.

the russian foreign minister toward the continent last week as the involvement in some of the conflicts is increasing.

all this comes is france's influence in west africa is dwindling remarkably burkina faso guinea and mali are lobbying to reinstate their countries to the african union they lost their seats following military coups u.n secretary general antonio guterres is also joining the leaders in the capital addis ababa together with the european council president charles michelle. so what's on the agenda leaders will discuss widespread conflict in the eastern democratic republic of congo and insecurity in mali burkina faso guinea and sudan another major topic will be food security many people are going hungry in several regions with somalia close to famine the group will also debate regional cooperation talks between sudan and ethiopia and libya's stall transition are among top concerns. on a broader level governments will discuss a request for permanent african seats on the united nations security council and the g20 group of major economies. for more on all this i'm joined by our guests and kampala is victor ochen director for african youth initiative network and robot is muhammad alishki senior fellow at the policy center for

the new south a moroccan think tank that focuses on economic and social public policies. and in london is jonathan ofay ansa founder and publisher at africa briefing magazine. a warm welcome to you all and thanks for being with us on inside story. today victor let me start with you today the 2023 african union summit is going to be taking place at a very fraught time for the continent how important is it that this be a productive summit. >> i think the 2023 uh au summit is definitely coming at the point when there's so much uh global interest they do strategic significance of africa given the current uh global situation about the increasing tension between the you know superpowers and all that uh but the question comes what role what will africa play in in terms of this global security piece and all this what would be the most cohesive voice that african union or african blog can come forward and present of course at the end of the day you look at there's been reason for need to consolidate the african position they have always got this ambiguous policies around issues driven by

state political fragility and identity based politics that has been problematic so i hope the african union summit this time will bring uh you know highlights on situations around the continent right now. which year of significance most importantly addressing the need to address the original conflict. >> victor let me follow up with you on a point that you were making there when it comes to the competition between the global superpowers right now and and the role africa is playing because you've had russian foreign minister sergey lavrov you've had the new chinese foreign minister you've had the u.s treasury secretary all have embarked on african tours within the past month russia china the u.s they are all trying to expand their footprints in africa right now so how much geopolitical bargaining power does that give africa at this moment. >> you did mention so well you did mention all those powers look at how united states has gone on to establish very strong strategic infrastructure or for engagement in africa through broad reaching you know uh diplomacy development and security issues and also look at how your opinion has made it a point that they want to

consolidate is a new commitment in the continent china and others but also looking at the uk the russia the india all these are all delivering significant uh you know uh development which are very important economic and security point of view but now you look at how will africa position itself will it reach a point where africa will be forced to join uh different orders or the situation is quite opaque because we need to know everybody's saying let's now look at how do we get our provisional outstanding quite clear in africa and then the force will come what will africa do are they going to be forced to pay excites which you want to go with or they are going to say as a continent we have got our own history we need our own agenda we have our own ambition is to focus and build our you know mainstream political economic and insecurity point of this nature. i think africa should not be a battleground but we should look into howly seek and to secure a partnership that will ever pass strengthen peace and stability in the continent. >> jonathan i saw you nodding along to some of what victory was saying there so i'm going to give you a chance uh to jump in but i also want to ask you um what are the priorities of this summit and and from your vantage point what's expected to

come out of it. >> well i always say that in the past eu summits have come to regarded as a beer you know talk show for you know africa's but the time has come in view of the where the geopolitical um situation you know we find ourselves in today currently. victor mentioned you know the visits by you know the new chinese foreign secretary as well as the u.s ambassador to the unm and the question why you leaders need to access know this interest in africa okay from where i'm sitting i see that all these major powers are caught in africa because africa has something to offer. something that they need right

so this is the time. we have the european union we have the asian countries no they all economic strong economic blocks we have the we set up the africa continental free trade ea okay to facilitate you know increase into african trade and all that yeah but we need to look outside while this uh big big powers are continuous we must know uh what we have what we possess that they need and know how to leverage it to the continent's advantage so to me this uh summit you know should be on the continent talk about climate change and talk about economy how we can leverage our resources to the atmos to our utmost advantage. >> muhammad african leaders are going to advocate for permanent seats for the continent on the u.n security council

they also want to join the g20 what are the chances that that these goals are achievable. >> let me let me begin by saying that africa does not accept any more to be on the menu but want to be in around the table with the other in terms of having a legitimate seat in the security council of the united nations but also having its say whenever the challenges the global challenges are addressed to have it say in and to have its contribution. africa is recorded as my friend said before me by all the principal

will be 1.2 billion consumer population will be 1.2 and in 2015 it will be 2000 to to meet two billion 25 who will be the third region in the demographically the most important and with this increase in demographic consumers africa will have between 700 and 800 consumers from a middle class it's a huge market and it's it will benefit from the the free throwd agreement they can tell another featured agreement but it is also an open market for all the other powers because africa now is open to real partnership it's not

anymore a monopoly of one more the other but it is open to real partnership in which african will set the agenda we'll set the priorities and we'll set the objectives of such leadership. >> jonathan one of the issues that's expected to dominate during this summit is the push by uh west african states of burkina faso guinea and mali to be reinstated to the au after being stripped of their membership following military coups um how large a role do you think this is going to play during the mmit and is that something that could happen could we see them be reinstated. >> i don't see that thing you know at this year's subject because um look i am au eco watch another redemplation or you know have come strongly against

you know any military or any any education that they need to destabilization you know of various countries and therefore they are respective bridges so not but now that's a they've said the road map what kind of money the ecowas has already set a roadmap for them to return to to civilian rule until that i doubt if the au will register them you know into the body >> victor how much are african countries driven by identity politics uh i'm talking about tribalism i'm talking about sectarianism and and how much does all that hamper what the au is able to accomplish in its work.

>> again and again it has also resulted into massive organized criminal activities across and you have seen very serious political mistrust that has continued to define the continent online abroad you find uh you know the next countries being used as the house for the next conflict in the neighboring countries and all this protracted experiences of both domestic and external political disability has been a good result for massachusetts in the region and we have seen that continued propaganda along tribes along ethnicity along religious affiliations has created always a very big deplorable reaction from different countries and it's been really uh difficult and it has

attracted massive migration. we have seen that by by studying your phone that you know after every 10 to 15 years the master closes happen especially in the great lakes region and the region the region has seen numerous and the reason is simply because young people are born into conflict they are told who their enemies are they are told why they are suffering they're told why they are in the refugee camp they're told why they're out of the country by the time they reach 10 to 15 years old they're strong enough and they want to strike back and these are the kind of we have got that generational transfer of trauma of pain of challenges so it has been difficult for us to be able to help the young people young generation transform their trauma they are paying their history into an opportunity for leadership and that's why we have seen there's been that uh ethnicized politics ethnic development ethnic government ethnic progress this is where the problem comes as long as we ain't able to dissect the ethnicity the ethnic ingredient in the african democracy it's always going to be a problem for the continent that's an area that you need to look at. what is that is needed for au to talk openly to talk transparently

about this issue among themselves we are seeing cross-border tension inter-country tension governments are defined by tribalisms and all this kind of thing becomes the ingredient for more conflict. how do we get it is one thing that hey you should focus on >> muhammad from your vantage point um how is the african union doing when it comes to coordinating with regional blocks whether that pertains to security issues or economic issues how is the au doing when it comes to that. >> i think glad that we have to understand the fact that african union is an entire governmental organization so it is about trying to coordinate policies of sovereign states it has nothing to do for example with the european union for which the member state decided to delegate some of their competencies. african union is an intergovernmental organization so it can only be efficient if the member states have the political will to allow the african union to really coordinate between

between themselves. i think that compared to the oau african union managed to structure itself in an architecture dealing with peace and security that is beginning to yield some fruits and some results. of course in any structure you have always the necessity to coordinate. there or maybe sometimes duplication between the regional economic commissions and the african union and there is a need to harmonize the need to really deal with the subsidiarity rule between the african union as such and its economic regional commission. now in in dealing with peace and security peace and security

is a global issue. african union and african member states cannot deal with issues like terrorism like conflicts with like development without the contribution of the international community. one has to acknowledge also that compared to the other regional organization african union has a very comprehensive dealing with peace security development integration health etc etc. so it cannot be compared to emails of efficiency and mandate with other resonance we have to give the benefit of doubt to the african union we have to african union it is on the right path but we have i think to be extremely patient and understanding and enabling the african union to discharge if the

use mandates in peace and security but also in development economic and social development. >> jonathan from your vantage point just how effective is the au there are a lot of critics that say that its standards have been eroded when it comes to member states um do you think that's the case and and there's so many challenges impacting the continent right now are african leaders up to the task. >> like muhammad said um compared to the oau which was you know was referred to as the old men's club you know and then looking at the au today you know and i said earlier that some of us used to see it as a talk show. i believe i see some gradual progress some gradual results you know i see some increasing political world right this is highlighted by the establishment of the uh of the african free content area okay

and we have the au peace and security council. look you talk about the ethiopian degree will that ended um late last year i mean the the mediation was made it facilitated byellow candidates but but au okay without any question nations explained they h the hanbut it was very frustrated by by a juventus so i see you know a gradual you know um reserve you know coming up i see the postcard was increasing but at the other day look we are the mercy of restaurant forces okay. eu is look the au headquarters itself was donated by china built a doctor by china okay um some members cannot even you know pay member security pay their dues on time okay and even now they user is relying on again external funding you

know for ace operations okay so the common proverb is who he who plays the per you kn called the tune. sontil african leaders are able to get their act together you know increase their result you know and there'll be more talk than action but so far so far i believe that that the world is there and if things are put right and then we can go you know further than we are >> victor of course one of the biggest concerns when it comes to africa right now is uh is hunger and so it's expected that you know one of the biggest subjects of discussion uh during this summit is going to be the worsening hunger in several regions somalia is on the verge of famine that's just one

example. what are some of the concrete steps that can be taken to help this situation to to to help improve this situation to combat this. >> about the anger let's actually pick from the horn of africa i think two major issues to to address would be one to address the question of migration the question movement people are moving from one part to another and they're unable to produce at all. and if au really wishes to address the causes of all these multiple crises i think it's important that we need to address the question of what makes people to move. what are the reasons why people are moving from one place to another and able to produce stuff. of course the natural disasters their element of natural resources the drought we have diseases we have you know floods

we have also most importantly inequality in the governance system that makes it very difficult for people to progress and of course the most important thing is also the climate change issues religion is experiencing very difficult times you mentioned somalia you mentioned ethiopia look at kenya we're seeing uh you know the the animals are drying to death and i think also i think it's very important to know that with the weather pattern and already which is causing a massive food shortages in the region and severe impact on social infrastructure we need to be able to how do we navigate the question of climate crisis with the intent address climate crisis we focus on food security with focus on domestic livelihood. it comes down to policies there's so much we need to invest there's so much that we can do and we must do as a continent in order to be able to avert the looming anger crisis otherwise we are going to be ongoing in this kind of we have massive opportunity the democrat demographic power the young people we have so much energy of young people and to me the energy is the right energy for progress.

but how are we using it. how are we using the energy of those young people we are forcing them to move away we are forcing them to leave their communities which they're supposed to state. we're seeing a massive rural urban migration people are moving away from where they can produce to where they can come and stay in the slums in the suburbs of the cities and urban settings. if we come it will be a challenge to our government to look at to address the question of how can you attract people to the productive sectors of our society in this case it's agriculture that's also how can you create an environment for young people to thrive make agriculture rewarding make living in the rural communities where productivity takes place rewarding. but if development infrastructure stops at the nation's capital we are not able to encounter the prospect for massive looming anger so the opportunity lies within our countries but it comes down to policies i think also let's be honest our african government should commit to going away from politics of poverty where you keep people poor for easy

manipulation and easy control. let's see how can we develop our young people progress and want to stay home and want to contribute to the national development. >> muhammad um i want to ask you about peacekeeping missions when it comes to peacekeeping missions how difficult have they been for the au to finance. is there progress being made when it comes to contributing to funding of peacemaking and peace support operations on the continent. >> if you allow me uh because you you said what what african countries can do concretely in terms of dealing with food insecurity let me just take one minute and then i will address the issue of the peace i just would like to say that the anger or food insecurity at the crossroad of climate change

productivity of agriculture and conflict resolutions. they also concrete initiative that has been taken for example by morocco with 14 or 15 other african countries in terms of promoting the productivity of the agriculture in these countries by using fertilizer by analyzing the the nature of soil and i think we we have managed to be successful with some countries for example like like kenya like ethiopia like nigeria like for dubai and others in which this combination between the two in in the framework of soft corporations is yielding some very promising results. now let me move to the peacekeeping i said earlier that

peace and security is is a global issue. it concerns all the international community not of the only the africans the fact that most of the peacekeeping operations are in africa doesn't mean that africa has by itself to deal with with the with the issue. it is something that africa is trying to do with the means that are available but uh for for the present and let's say for the near future i think that the african union and the its economic regional commission still needs support in logistics in training and in financing for the time being about 75 of the budget is coming from the outside of the african countries. and the implementation of two

percent that was adopted after the report of president kagami on the reform of the financing of the peacekeeping operations by the african union is something that can enable the africa to be more involved financially in dealing with its conflict. yet it is a responsibility of the international community and it is a responsibility of the international community especially now that conflicts are mixed with the the challenge of terrorism and violence. >> all right well we have run out of times we're going to have to leave our discussion there thanks so much to all of our guests. thank you two for watching you can see the program again anytime by visiting our website al jazeera.com and for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook.com forward slash aj inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at aj inside story

bye for now.

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