>> any reason that could affect any human. tom: gunfire between afghan and pakistani border forces. a major crossing for trade and trav betwe the countries has been closed. what's causing the latest flareup and how will it affect people on both sides of the border? this is inside story. welcome to the program.

the main crossing between afghanistan and pakistan has been closed for days and border forces on each side have exchanged fire. the incident is the latest in a series of flareups between the two countries. afghanistan said it shut the border on sunday after pakistani security officials reportedly prevented afghans seeking medical help from entering. that is after pakistan tightened security at its border crossings. dozens of vehicles carrying travelers and goods are stranded on both sides of the border. traders and businesses are facing mounting losses. in the last few months, the countries have closed the crossing many times and violence has often broken out. pakistan and afghanistan share a border nearly 2000 600 kilometers long with 18 crossing points. the one -- the busiest isn't

nearly 180 kilometers from each country's capital. we have this report from the pakistani capital, islamabad. reporter: being a landlocked country, afghanistan is heavily dependent on trade across the border from pakistan. there are two major crossings -- one that connects kandahar and the other peschel are with an city. this is one of the busiest routes into afghanistan. both countries enjoy considerable trade and both countries are facing economic hardships. the afghan site has accused pakistan of not adhering to the agreement. unconfirmed reports saying an afghan patient was turned back from the border. many afghans come to pakistan to seek medical attention. the afghans are not happy with the way the pakistanis have behaved. the pakistani side once the

border to be reopened. diplomatic efforts are underway but, on monday, there was an exchange of automatic fire which lead to fear among some of the people living close to the border areas to move from their homes temporarily. according to custom officials, 300 trucks are stranded on the -- stranded on the pakistani side, many carrying perishable items. that translates into huge losses were traders on both sides and people will be hoping this issue is resolved in order to reach -- in order to alleviate the hardships of the afghan people and prove beneficial for pakistani traders sending their commodities across the border. tom: we will go to our guests in just a moment. but first let's take a look at the importance of this crossing. it's a vital link of trade between the two countries and

thousands passed through it each week. it's particularly important for afghanistan that uses it to export coal and receive food and other essentials from pakistan. thousands of people use it every day for work and to get medical help and treatment. for decades, torkham has been the main point of entry into pakistan for refugees. relations between the countries have been on edge since the taliban took over afghanistan in august of 2021. for more on this, i'm joined by our guests, the professor of political science at kabul university. in london, the director of development research group, a consultancy focusing on women and youth development in central and south asian countries. and in islamabad, a career diplomat and pakistan's former ambassador to afghanistan. a warm welcome to you all. thank you for being on inside

story. i want to start by trying to figure out what you think happened -- have you been able to pinpoint why the border crossing was closed? guest: this one and of the one that was mentioned, these are the two crossing points -- the -- they are the major links between the two. what happened actually is according to the report, a patient was to be brought to pakistan for treatment and the unwritten agreement between the two sides for quite some time is each patient, one attendant would be allowed without a visa. this i heard according to the official document.

this day, the patient had one attendant with him which was turned down according to the immediate report by pakistan security. so on this, their attention grew between the afghani gentleman on the spot. the senior one in charge from the taliban side immediately close the border. it still is closed. so it flared up in the fighting took place between the two. this issue is not that important but it flared up because the trust deficit between the two sides have gradually increased since the taliban have taken over. between islamabad and kabul, the trust has always been there -- at times it widens and it comes

down. it's roots are deep down. in the early days of the creation of pakistan, but let me leave that there. the tension increases with some things like this because the arrangement has been a problem between the two sides. then -- even though it is recognizing the line but publicly they are hesitant to admit and pakistan considers it an international barrier with afghanistan. tom: obviously the issue goes deeper than over visas. but from the afghanistan point of view, a tele-been appointed commissioner said pakistan has not been abiding by its commitments. what are the commitments and how is this issue being perceived in

afghanistan? guest: since the inception of pakistan, pakistan never support a kabul-based government. they never support big government looking after afghanistan as a sovereign country. pakistan has antigovernment and antistate factors. bc the return of taliban could not satisfy pakistan's wish to have a neighbor on the side which would be assisted in many ways, economical, political and social. the tele-band, once they returned to power, they believed pakistan would stay as a close friend, as a close ally and close supporter. but since the tele-banner back in power, they have been demonized, they have been scrutinized by pakistani

governments and military. for the first time in history of afghanistan, especially in recent history, pakistan bombarded afghanistan. it was considered a severe antistate act by the tele-been in kabul. it created a lot of mistrust between both governments. pakistan domestically is facing political tensions, economic and social. the leadership has not been able to stabilize their own country, so they have been looking for some blaming in the region. they have been having such troubles and problems not only with afghanistan but india,

problems -- very last thing, the transit arguments between pakistan and afghanistan -- the travel arrangement has not been respected by pakistan and once that taliban took power, they raised the issue to be implemented. pakistan will have a transit route through central asia where afghanistan will have a route to take its exports to india which is much respected and has been creating a problem for afghan economically, socially and clinically. tom: obviously this is a big humanitarian issue. who is paying the price on both sides of the border?

who are the real people being affected in their daily lives? guest: thank you very much for this question. just before i go to the humanitarian aspect, i have to remind our audience that this border is on the durham line, which is still contested. most of the afghans, those who live on both sides are not formally recognizing the line. the conversation is reflected in some of these reactions we see, they are somehow supposedly out of the government control. it is obvious that even though afghanistan today has the most pakistani-friendly regime in place, still there are tensions, there are situations like this. let's not forget that within this context, the closure of the border is a political act and it

is like a pressure point by the parties involved. who is paying the price from a humanitarian perspective, it is clear it is the afghans paying the huge price here because the afghans are in a very concerning situation. there is a humanitarian crisis in the country with a majority of the people in need of food, immediate services, and in particular, medical services, which is getting worse due to the imitations afghanistan is facing today. a lot of those patients are in urgent need of care and treatments in pakistani cities and are now the prime affected people. in addition, as was mentioned by your other guests, the livelihoods of those who are

residing locally or regionally in the areas is dependent. people at the local level are losing their jobs. traders from both sides, the pakistani side as well as the afghan side, are also losing a lot when we have like your reporter says, 300 or 500 trucks stuck there. we have seen so many times this happen. it is not the first time, unfortunately. finally, there is this tension out of control of the states who cannot maintain that level of stability there to have it. conclusively, it is the people paying the price like any other conflict, particularly those whose health conditions or livelihood is directly depending on this border being open. tom: obviously this is not just an issue in afghanistan. it is an important trade route for pakistan as well. how much of an appetite is there

for there to keep this border closed or is there any pressure coming from people who need to trade in the area from the pakistani side to open the border as soon as possible? guest: if you will permit me, i will make a comment on what my friend from kabul said. he said -- in fact, let's not create things for ourselves. i will give you a perspective. pakistan applied for membership of the u.n. and on the 30th of september, 1947, all the members of the u.n. working for pakistan became a member except for afghanistan which didn't vote

for pakistan. there was an objection. that objection remained for 20 days. they took it back but the first stone was cast by the afghans, not by the pakistanis. the rest is history. let's avoid the blame game. what i am telling my friend from afghanistan to check with the u.n. if i said a word more than what actual history has been blamed with it. we consider it an established fact. in 1893 when it was not there and part of the indian sub continent.

my friend should check with the u.n. and according to international law, the state inherent. the afghans did refuse to vote for pakistan to become a member, so let's bury it there. come down to the trade activity, that definitely affects both sides. the afghans more because they are dependent on importing goods from afghanistan. though they have access to the neighboring countries also. mostly the focus is on pakistan

for trade and treatment of patients. this event mostly, certainly there are people near the border. they mainly defend -- mainly depend on this trade because in the tribal area, there's hardly anything for people to live on. this is the only source of income of those people. tom: obviously this is a massive social impact. millions of afghans live in pakistan and many commute on a daily basis between the two countries. this ties as much division and history as there is between the two countries. there's a lot in common and there is a brotherhood between these two nations.

what does that do to the people who rely on a daily commute in afghanistan and pakistan? guest: if we look at the historical perspective, we might come up with a lot of detailed evidence and perspectives that has always use the issue as a pressure point. they know afghanistan is landlocked and they use this border as an issue and sheltered all those antistate factors lying on both sides to destabilize and set up afghanistan. that is why the afghan government in kabul was never

able to consider pakistan as a friend. they were sheltered, protected and supported by the pakistan government and pakistan people. once they returned to power, they have been having in their mind at heart all those miseries they went through in the past 20 years of resistance as their leaders were killed, some of their leaders were detained, many of their leaders were sold out to the u.s. mistrust and the trust deficit always between pakistan and afghanistan and much of the blame comes to pakistan. if we consider this as a transit point, way pakistan is not

binding itself to the wto as -- international laws and regulation for transit, why they are not allowing transports to india and why not allowing afghan goods to be transported in its seasonal route to karachi . the very last thing is the blame game has always come from pakistan. what have they done to the development of this area, to the harmony and stability of this area and what have been achieved by them? we know that taliban have been blaming regarding the recent attacks that have been going on since the taliban took power.

many of the attackers, many of the unstable factors are still coming from the side. -- coming from that side. from the pakistani taliban shelters. the blame game is always there but you should not forget that since 1893 they have not signed an agreement with afghanistan. it was a buffer zone and afghanistan at that time was a buffer state between the imperialist anglo and afghan government. tom: i want to move away from the history for a moment. you touched on this a little earlier and i want you to expand on it. many afghans travel to pakistan for medical treatment. can you explain how big an issue that is and what is happening to them now and our lives being put

at risk with this border closure? guest: precisely. as you are well aware and i'm sure the two guests on the program as well, unfortunately, due to the long years of conflict and due to the current taliban authorities bans on education, there is a massive shortage of medical services, particularly at the more advanced level of medical diagnosis and treatment for people in afghanistan. afghans are left with no other option's but to rely on their immediate neighbors. in the past, india was a significant destination, but because of the visa restrictions on travels, no longer people can go to india. everyone is back to using this option of saving a life and taking the person who is out. if we look around our networks of people, everyone on average

has been to pakistan once or twice at least for medical treatment. it is quite significant. what is really bothering, as he was saying in his comments, how this immediate issue was triggered because something was agreed between afghanistan and pakistan in the recent months, which was because there is no visa now issued in an easy way, there are black-market visas with 1000, 1200 or so dollars you have to pay, you can get a pakistani visa. but for the medical reasons, because of the pressure from the people, the pakistani government and taliban have made an agreement that it should be another procedure to allow the patients with one attendant to cross the border for medical treatment. i know my own relatives living in eastern afghanistan who used this two weeks ago. a husband and wife, very ill

with one son got to the border and returned back to afghanistan. if something like this exists as a brotherhood we were talking about, why is it immediately stopped? that obviously creates tension and we are talking about a very unstable situation. people are in deep economic crisis, and these things trigger something that has originated in history. we cannot pack history or fold it in a folder somewhere. this is something that affects people's lives. pakistan did not exist in the time the durham was created. historical discussions were made before me but a realization, because of that contestation that exists, people don't recognize this and when there are changes in the policies, whether geopolitics or pressure points as mentioned before or any other reasons, could be random reasons, it triggers an

immediate reaction of the people and hence results in the tensions we are seeing today. tom: i want to finish with you very briefly. as a former ambassador, how does this get resolved quickly and peacefully to get the border reopen for everyone that desperately needs to use it as a trade and supply route? guest: give me just a moment to comment on why this triggers so very often with the taliban particularly. for they taliban coming into power, the restrictions were there but they were not so stringent during karzai as they are now. now the taliban is taking it very seriously. we are your friends. they should be a little more lenient than making it difficult.

there is a real bone of contention. it's links go very deep in the history. tom: just quickly, how do we move on from that? guest: i'd just want to mention it. the most important element is both the government in islamabad and kabul should accept and regret the past mistakes. i'm not going into the detail. both have committed. they should forgive and forget and regret and then move on. until and unless it is addressed, these things will keep cropping up and straining relations, whatever effort we may make. something will happen and will again shatter the development. there are good pages in our history but again, this thing comes up and the development

between the two pushes to the back and the tension or the trust deficit increases. so for that to address, we have to go into the history and the two governments have to come up with this idea that we regret and this is in the past and we move like two independent, sovereign states, hand in hand and resolve issues of our people. tom: let's hope that for everyone's sake that that is something the governments can come to a resolution as soon as possible. thank you so much. thank you for being here on inside story and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, al jazeera.com. for further discussion, go to our facebook page. you can also join the conversation on twitter.

our handle is at a.j. inside story. from me, tom mcrae, and the whole team here, goodbye for now.

■x■x

>> how many people are interested in a backpacking trip? we're talking about real adventure. this stuff changes who youre. >> just taking it all in, also mind, power trick i think. >> getting to the top, i felt like ias on top of the world. >> when i get back home, i'm gonna be totally changed. >> real talk, we go! [ambient music] - [announcer]: major funding for reel south was provided by: etv endowment, the national endowment for the arts, center for asian-american media,