03/01/23 03/01/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> human rights. because they have black hair, they don't have green or blue eyes.

amy: the death toll in italy has reached 67 after a boat carrying up to 200 refugees in europe fell apart over the weekend near . at least 16 of the victims were children. we will speak with doctors without borders. then to the student debt crisis. conservative justice on the supreme court appear set to block president biden from eliminating or reducing student loan debt for millions of borrowers. student debt activists rallied outside the supreme court. >> is it just for us to look at the problem of student debt through a racial justice lens? is it just for us to look at the student debt crisis as an

economic problem in this country? amy: plus, we will go to alabama where hundreds of striking miners are returning to work at the warrior met coal company after nearly two years spent on picket lines. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the supreme court heard oral arguments tuesday in two challenges to the biden administration's student debt relief plan, which could give tens of millions of federal borrowers up to $20,000 of relief each. several conservative justices expressed skepticism over the plan, while liberal justice sonia sotomayor blasted the republican states that brought one ofhe lawsuits, arguing 50 million students will suffer if thprogram is rescinded and that the education department should be making decisions about how to handle their debt rather than judges.

activists gathered outside the court. this is maddy clifford of the debt collective. >> the same billionaires who don't want you to have higher wages, that want to bust your unions, that don't want you to have decent and free medical care, that want to dictate what you do with your body, that want more tax cuts for the super rich -- they are the ones that also want you to say -- amy: later in the show, we'll speak with debt collective organizer and writer eleni schirmer. elsewhere in washington, d.c., the senate judiciary committee held a hearing tuesday for the equal rights amendment which would codify gender equality in the constitution. the e.r.a. was passed in 1972 but was never ratified, as conservative opponents have argued the deadline for ratification has passed. the e.r.a. would not only help address persistent inequality in areas like wages, it could also protect abortion rights and the rights of trans and non-binary people.

constitutional and legal experts say congress has the authority to change the ratification timeline. this is lawyer and constitutional scholar kathleen sullivan speaking at yesterday's hearing. >> it is my belief it is the law now and the only thing standing in the way is the congressional deadline which congress set in 1972, altered in 1978, and has the power to change today. amy: tuesday's hearing came as the washington, d.c., circuit court struck down a case which would have compelled the u.s. archivist to publish and certify the equal rights amendment as part of the constitution. in nigeria, bola tinubu of the ruling all progressives congress party was declared the winner of the weekend's presidential election. but his opponents have disputed the results, alleging fraud, while election observers and voters have cited delays, closures, and violence at voting sites.

turnout was less than 30%. tinubu, the former governor of lagos lost to the labour party's peter obi in lagos state. obi had received much of his support from young voters, who saw him as the candidate of change. atiku abubakar of the main opposition party peoples democratic party received the second highest number of votes, according to nigeria's electoral commission. the new president of africa's most populous nation will have to face the ongoing security and violence crisis, as well as double-digit inflation and unprecedented oil theft. iranian authorities say they are investigating after a series of poisonings at girls' schools. the latest such attack struck a school in the city of pardis in tehran province tuesday. nearly 700 school girls have suffered toxic poisonings since november in what authorities have said is an attempt to shut down education for girls and could be linked to the nationwide women's rights

protests in iran that took off in september following the death of 22-year-old mahsa amini in police custody. no students have been killed in the attacks, but many have reported respiratory problems and other health effects. back in the united states, president biden has tapped deputy secretary of labor julie su to be the next labor secretary as former boston mayor marty walsh leaves his post this month. the nomination of su, a civil rights attorney and former head of california's labor department, was welcomed by progressive and pro-labor groups. she would be the first asian american to serve as secretary in biden's cabinet. aimee allison, founder of she the people, said -- "julie su's commitment to ensuring equity and compliance, to her work as a labor expert and attorney fighting for the rights of women workers nationally, makes her the ideal choice to lead the labor department." we will have more on this story later in the broadcast. meanwhile, democrats re-introduced the pro act

tuesday for the third time. the legislation would protect the right to organize and penalize companies who engage in union-busting. this is senator bernie sanders. >> under this ill, it will no longer be cheaper for corporations to break the law than to obey the law. in a time when we are seeing -- here'good news, more and more workers wanting to join unions -- it is an acceptable that over half the workers who vote to form a union don't have a union contract a year aft the union victory. that will change under the pro act. amy: in mississippi, republican governor tate reeves has signed into law a bill that bans gender-affirming health care for transgender youth. the legislation criminalizes providing transition-related care to minors, frees health insurance companies from having to cover gender-affirming care for youth, and blocks public funding for clinics and institutions that offer this type of care.

mississippi is at least the fifth state in the united states to ban health care for trans youth. in just the past month, utah and south dakota enacted trans healthcare bans and the oklahoma house just passed a similar measure. two other bans in alabama and arkansas are currently being challenged in federal court. in arkansas, the legislature has also voted to advance a bill that criminalizes trans adults for using public restrooms when children are present. in tennessee, republican governor bill lee is facing backlash after a high school photo of him dressed in drag went viral just days after he said he plans to sign a bill that criminalizes drag performances. the measure bans drag shows from being performed in public or in front of children. nationwide, at least 14 bills have been introduced, including in arizona, texas, and tennessee, targeting drag shows, with performers and supporters saying these measures have worsened harassment and threats from far-right groups.

several drag story time events for kids at libraries and other public places have been targeted by right-wing groups, including armed protesters. some 30 million people across the united states are seeing a portion of their federal food assistance taken away today. the supplemental nutrition assistance program, or snap, had increased benefits as part of the emergency response to the covid-19 pandemic. some households could lose hundreds of dollars each month even as families continue to face increased food prices and analysts warn the cuts will bring millions to a hunger cliff. congressmember pramila jayapal said -- "it's unacceptable. poverty and hunger are policy choices. it's time we step up and do more." and in chicago, mayor lori lightfoot conceded tuesday eving after losing her bid for re-election. an april 4 runoff will pit paul vallas, the former

superintendent of chicago public schools who is backed by the fraternal order of police, and progressive brandon johnson, a cook county commissioner and organizer for the chicago teachers union. this is paul vallas speaking to supporters last night. >> we will have a safe chicago. we will make chicago the safest city in america. amy: he received about 34% of the vote. brandon johnson placed second with just over 20%. on tuesday night, johnson criticized vallas' record. >> he is backed by the same forces who have done nothing as crime has paralyzed our city. he is backed by the same supporters who have failed to enforce the consent decree even after laquan mcdonald was killed. amy: chicago mayor lori lightfoot placed third in tuesday's race. four years ago, she became the first black woman and openly gay chicago mayor but she came under

intense criticism during her term, including for her handling of the pandemic, racial justice protests, the chicago teachers' strike, crime levels, and skyrocketing property taxes. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i am amy goodman in new york joined in chicago by democracy now! co-host juan gonzalez. hi, juan. juan: welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: you are in chicago where this race took place yesterday for the mayor of chicago. a lot of firsts. you had lori lightfoot the first african-american woman mayor of chicago, the first openly lgbtq mayor of chicago, and now she becomes the first incumbent mayor to go down in something like 40 years. can you talk about the vallas

versus johnson runoff and the significance of what took place? juan: lori was deeply unpopular, as you mtioned, first term was less than stellar i think most voters felt. this is shaping up now, the runoff is shaping up to be a sort of classic battle between progressives on the one hand and centrists and conservative forces on the other. paul vallas is a former ceo -- he had a stint as superintendent of the philadelphia public schools as well as in new orleans after hurricane katrina. he is a big backer of charter schools. obviously, that is a major issue that the chicago teachers union from which wright and johnson emerges is deeply opposed to. he also has significant backing from real estate and business

leaders. his issue or some people say his main three issues were crime, crime, and crime. he promised -- he is promising more police officers on the streets. he touted last night in his election night beach that not only is his wife a police but one of his sons is a police officer and another is a firefighter. he clearly is seeking the more conservative votes not only amongst centrist democrats but among those who consider themselves republicans in chicago. brandon johnson on the other hand was strongly backed by several key labor unions, not only his own local the chicago teachers union and the working families party, but yeah megan federation of teachers -- the parent union port and lots of money as well as did the service

in place international union, health care division. this is basically key labor unions were backing brandon johnson as well as progressives and he was emphasizing that you fight crime as well by investing in communities and alternatives for young people. it is shaping up to be a classic progressive versus conservative battle. the problem is that vallas did get 34% of the vote, so brandon johnson is going to have to be able to get backing from a lot of the others who lost, including congressman chua garcia who came in forthwith 14%. what lightfoot and her supporters are going t do will be critical. it will be a tough race between now and april 4 to see which vision of urban governance wins out. amy: do you see this as a message to the country to democrats? this is a battle within the

democratic party. the police union versus the teachers union in chicago. juan: it is because chicago is such an important city in the nation, but we have been seeing this now play out in a lot of urban races are a wing of the democratic party finds itself to some degree more in sync with some views of some independents and conservatives around, once again, putting the emphasis on fighting crime rather than trying to deal with the conditions that give rise to crime and with the social safety nets of urban cities. so we're going to see this play out over and over again. chicago could be a well -- could be a bellwether as to how this will develop in the future. amy: we will continue to follow this, the runoff election i april 4. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and

peace report. we turn now to the death toll in italy reaching 67 after a boat carrying up to 200 people seeking refuge in europe fell apart over the weekend near the italian city of crotone. the 16 of the victims were sick -- were children. about 80 survivors were pulled to safety after they were found in the water clinging to pieces of the ship which had departed the turkish city a few days earlier. some of the survivors are children who lost their whole families in the shipwreck also of rescuers said many of the passengers were from afghanistan. others came from iran, syria, and somalia. on tuesday, some relatives of the victims went to identify the bodies of their loved ones. >> police show us pictures and say, is this your family?

we give the answer yes or no. >> you recognize them? >> yes. >> what did you think when you saw them? >> [indiscernible] >> ok. amy: another relative of the victims questioned why moore was not on to say the passengers on the boat. >> they don't rescue the people. they tell us always human rights because they have black hair or they don't have green or blue eyes, that -- i don't know.

telling about human rights. because they have black eyes or black hair they weren't human. amy: since 2014, almost 26,000 people have died or gone missing in mediterranean -- many governments have responded by criminalizing rescue efforts by humanitarian groups. just days before the shipwreck off the coast of italy, the italian government of the far right leader georgia maloney approved a new law making it harder for humanitarian aid, rescue vessels to carry out their missions. doctors without borders, msf, said the rescue ship was detained by italian authorities just last week as part of the new measures, blocking it from going to sea to save lives. we go now to brussels to speak with caroline willemen, deputy

head of mission for search and rescue with médecins sans frontieres, doctors without borders. welcome to democracy now! this horror at sea and your ship basically confiscated, detained by the italian government -- explain everything that took place. >> indies and extremely -- it is an extremely cynical situation and i can only follow the words that person was speaking earlier of where do we see our right to speak about human rights. on trsy evening, our ship was informed by thetalian authorities that we wi be detained for a period of 20 days . we will not be able to carry out our lifesaving work, which is indeed a result of this new legislation that was put in place by the italian authorities

. and the detention is only part of already the way the legislation is reducing our capacity to carry out rescues. we are now also forced to return to port as soon as after one rescue, which means we can rescue much less people every time that we go out to rescue people. so just to give you an idea, before ts legislation, we used to rescue an average -- wheeze to do more than four rescues and rescue over 280 people each time and now we arellowed to do ly one rescue which might be 50 to 100 people. the question is, where are those people who are not rescued by us? indeed, our works being blocked while unfortunately these horrendous tragedies are happening. i want to make clear as well there is a lot more media attention in this case because the tragedy happened so close to

italy, but this is something that happens quite regularly, closer to the libyan coast for example, and very often that news will not even reach western media. juan: could you talk about the anti-refugee and antimmigration- anti-immigrant policies being enforced by eu nations like italy, especially given the fact that right now many of the same european countries are opening their doors to refugees from the war in ukraine and yet they are shutting the doors to refugees to the global south? >>xactly. i think what we have seen in the past year in terms of the welcoming of refugees fleeing ukraine, which is exacy what we should be doing to be clear and that is exactly the welcome that buddy -- anybody fleeing

persecution deserves -- i mean, i don't even want to mention what iight want to believe humanity we have left to see people, to welcome people but also according to international law it is not soly humanirian imperative. what we have seen over the past year also shows it is not a matter of it not being possible, it is a matter of lack of political will because the open doors policy come again so rightly applied to people fleeing ukraine, has not been applied to people fleeing from other countries. it has been several years in italy, amongst other countries in europe, indeed the work of ngo's has been made more difficult in previous years there has been criminalization of individuals working for

ngo's. you have had to face discriminatory practices. in itself, no -- we are a medical organization. we suppo medical quarantine measures when they make sense but you have to ask yourself questions when measures are being applied much more strictly for search-and-rescue ngo's than for others. so the what we see now as well in this new gestation that has come out, it targets only ngo's doing search and rescue work. keep in mind, the vast majority people who arrived in italy either managed to arrive autonomously or they are rescued by the time coast guard the legislation targets only ngo's. that is where we have the point of being allowed to only do one rescue. we are assigned ports that are

hundreds of kilometers away from the area where we would normally disembark people so this is adding several days to our journey with survivors on board but also if we want to return to the search-and-rescue area to do our work, it takes as -- we lose time i think is the correct way of saying it. because every day we are not in the area where we normally d rescues, people risk to lose their lives. these people also risk to be intercepted by libyan coast guards, which to this day are still supported by the european union, by the italian government. a people intercepted by them will be returned to libya, returned to detention centers, will be abused, extorted. they are essentially returned to the hell they are trying to flee. juan: i wanted to ask you in terms of those refugees who do make it to europe alive, what

kind of conditions do they face in countries like italy or belgium where you're from? you have also worked in refugee camps in greece. can you talk about th conditions they face? >> it has been a few years now that i was working in greece, but ihink we have seen a very similar -- it is all part of a wider european deterrence policy. basically try to deter people from approaching europe. i woed in a cap for asylum-seekers on the island oflesbos. at its peak, there were 20,000 people. you can't imagine how over crowded it was. insufficient water and sanitation, insufficient space. athis very day as a belgian citizen, i know a few kilometers

away from my door there are several asylum-seekers who have a right to access reception centers by the government are sleeping in freezing temperatures on the streets and have been for about six months at this point. indeed, what we see happening in italy is unfortunately part of a wider policy at european level that has been going on for many years. amy: i remember when we went to calay, the largest refugee camp and i think all of europe at the time called the jungle by the people inside, it looked like the countries that people were from where a map of the countries the united states had bombed from afghanistan to iraq to syria. can you talk about who on this

ship, who died? >> so the information that we have so far is afghanistan is for sure a country that comes forward. iran is a country that comes out. then there are a few different nationalities that have been named. i have heard some all u mentioned as well, pakistan -- somalia mention as well, pakistan. this is in line with the people i have met on board of our rescue ship we were coming out of libya despite the geographical location of libya, and people also coming out of syria. we met people from afghanistan, pakistan. the same thing when we were on the island of lesbos last time i was there, the people arriving were majority from afghanistan. nigeria.

people fleeing conflict. the people who come through libya, also came across a group of people who have moved toward libya beuse theyon't have any economic opportunities in their own country so they look for work in libya but then they get trapped in the horrendous cycle of exploitation, basically, forced labor. and that is what eventually shes them leave libya where the only way outs taking the sea. let it be clear, people don't understand very well how dangerous it is which only goes to say how dangerous the places are that they are fleeing. the cliché that always comes back, there is a reason why it is a cliché because it is so true. people would not put their children on a boat if the sea did not seem safer option than

where they are fleeing. i have been in afghanistan myself. at some point, start seeing the whole range of the places that people leave to the places people arrive and the horrendous welcome that they receive are the lack of welcome they received. amy: caroline, what are you calling for? when is your ship geo barents being released? go broader than that. >> we should be released in 15 days. obviously, we should be released now. every single day we are not there people might die, people might be returned to libya. we need state led search-and-rescue. most of all, if anything was shown by the drama and senate, we need safe legal routes for people to reach europe alive at the very least. america caroline willemen, thank you for being with us, deputy head of mission for search and rescue with médecins sans frontieres, doctors without

borders. speaking to us from brussels. next up, we go to the oral arguments tuesday in two cases challenging biden's student debt forgiveness program. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "black gold" by chicago's own charles stepney. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. the supreme court heard oral arguments tuesday in two challenges to the biden administration's student debt relief plan, which could give tens of millions of federal borrowers up to $20,000 of relief each. outside the court, activists rallied. >> these lawsuits are bogus. literally backed by right wing billionaires. look at us, rich people. receiving government subsidies. does the government work for them or for us?

that is my question. if you ask me now what it feels like to be 120 thousand dollars in student loan debt, i say it feels like solidarity. it feels like power. if one person owns the bank, that is not one person's problem. but when a million people oh the bank, that is the bank's problem. amy: supporters of student debt relief were joined by independent senator bernie sanders who called education a human right and said public colleges and universities should be tuition-free. >> in america, you should not have to pay -- faced financial ruin because you want a damn education. amy: inside the supreme court, several conservative justices expressed skepticism over the biden's student debt relief plan, while liberal justice sonia sotomayor blasted the republican states who brought one of the suits. >> 50 million students who are

-- who will benefit from this, today will struggle. many of them don't have assets sufficient to bail them out after the pandemic. they don't have friends or families or others who can help them make these payments. the evidence is clear that many of them will have to default. their financial situation will be even worse because once you default, the hardship on you is exponentially greater. you can't get credit. you're going to pay higher prices for things. they are going to continue to suffer from this pandemic in a way that the general population doesn't. and what you are saying is now we are going to give judges the right to decide how much aid to give them. amy: that's justice sonia sotomayor on tuesday. before we're joined by our next

guest, i want to play a clip from a video produced by a more perfect union about a group funding the lawsuits against student debt relief called the jobs creator's network. >> the se billioires and corporatnshat d't nt you to have gher wes, thatant bk your uon, that don't wantou to he decent and ee medil care, at want diate wh you do wi your dy, that wt more x cutso the supeich, ty're the ones that also nt you t say -- amy: for more on all of this, we are joined by eleni schirmer, who organizes with the debt collective and is a writer and postdoctoral fellow at concordia university's social justice centre in montréal. her new piece in "the new yorker" is headlined "how the government cancelled betty ann's debts" and follows up on her piece last summer "the aging student debtors of america: in an era of declining wages and

rising debt, americans are not aging out of their student loans -- they are aging into them." welcome to democracy now! why don't you start off by laying out the arguments in the cases before the supreme court yesterday and the questions that were asked by the supreme court justices. >> thank you for having me. i just want to start by saying we should not take for granted the fact five years ago, 10 years ago the fact that calling for student debt cancellation was widely ludicrous. yesterday we saw the solicitor general representing the department of justice in the biden administration arguing tooth and you for the right for these loans to be canceled and the necessity for these loans to be canceled. that is the fig picture framing of what happened yesterday that we even got to this point is fundamental testament to the strength of the movement.

yesterday the supreme court they were hearing two cases. why was brought by six republican attorney general's who were suing the biden administration because of the claim entities and their state will lose money if student debts become canceled. the other one was brought by two plaintiffs from texas who are suing the program because they believed they wer either excluded from tting relief or not getting the full amount of relief. so instead of petioning to expand and increase the debt relief program, they were suing to halt the whole thing. juan: could you talk about this issue that you wrote about in "the new yorker" pc aging student debtors of america," you highlight the fact there is a

growing demographic of student demo -- student debtors, those over the age of 60? >> as someone who is working in the student debt space, i am familiar with the understanding of debt as a poverty tax. the people who have the least money end up paying the most. this is how debt functions but it was really a revelation for me when i understood the fastest-growing demographic of student debtors are old people. it really sort of shed light on the absolute policy failure of student debt. that want to take on a loan, it becomes increasingly harder and harder to get out of it. one of the people that i was lucky enough to listen to her story was a 91-year-old woman named betty ann who worked as a schoolteacher in harlem for decades and at age 55 decided to go back to school.

she wanted a different angle on the problems she was sing around her. she decided to go to law school in the 1980's. she was one of the first black women to attend new york university law school. to do this, she had to borrow about $2000 in the mid-1980's. when i spoke to her in 2022, she owed more than $300,000 in debt. she is one of thousands of people who have paid, made years and years and years of payments only to find their balances continue to grow, that the administrative errors on the department of education has put her in worse case, and that -- when i spoke to her, she was preparing to die with those loans. and 91, it is hard to understand how she will come up with $300,000. it is all too common as we talk to people who unfortunately believe the only way out of

debt is by doffins. amy: and her grandson jeremy blood? >> it an intergenerational problem. betty has debt in her grandson has debt. he is one of the millions of people who applied for leave under president biden's proposed program to cancel $10,000 to $20,000 per debtor, relief will stop he, along with millions come is waiting to find out what is going to happen, if he is going to be able to have enough money to begin to make other plans with his life, to start a family, to invest in a house, to save for retirement. these are the kinds of questions that rest on this policy. what will people be able to do with the rest of their lives. juan: when you mentioned biden's announcement last year, you

raised a point that the administration made a mistake in not having an application to apply for debt relief ready at the time they made the announcement. could you talk about that? >> right. probably the first mistake was, from my point of view and my colleagues' point of view, was needing an application to begin with. there were proposals floated prior to biden -- four debt to be automatically and universally limited. -- eliminated. this was not the path that president biden took. weeks before the biden announcement, every group representing civil society, labor unions, naacp, attorney generals were pushing the biden administration to cancel this debt automatically and

universally and the biden administration, for unclear reasons, chose not to take that path. they wanted to implement the relief with means testing to make sure the right debtors were getting relief stop and by right, thewere trying to peg it at a certain income threshold. if you make 125,000 dollars or less, you're eligible for $10,000 to 20,000 of us really. this was the program they announced at the end of august. also for unclear reasons, upon announcing this program, they did not have an application ready to go for people to fill out. it took almost six weeks for the application to become ready. they rolled it out on a friday afternoon. in the news world, that is a bad time to rule out anything, friday afternoon. within hours, millions had applied. what's more, they were from some of the poorest places in the

cotry. the new analysis of those who applied for relief, the average per capita income of the person who apply for relief is less than $35,000. so there is this sort of national -- this notion debt relief is for the wealthy. most apply were making under 35,000 does. back to the delay, and between the weeks of announcing and rolling out the application, that was a fatal six weeks stop in that time, half a dozen right wing lawsuits challenged the program. play the game strategically and they were able to find plaintiffs that were going to advance the claims to hold the whole program -- help program and found sympathetic republican trump appointed judges who are willing to hear what a lot of

legal experts considered to be laughable claims to bring a suit. in the will terms, is called to have standing. that is how it got to this moment right now. amy: i want to go to chief justice john roberts during the oral arguments for the department of education versus mira brown. >> since we're dealing in the case with individuals borrowers or would be borrowers, i think would be appropriate to consider some of the fairness arguments. you have two situations, two kids come out of high school and can't afford go to college. one takes a loan and the other says i'm going to try my hand at setting up a lawn care service and he takes out a bank loan for that. at the end of four years, we know statistically that the person with the college degree is going to do significantly

financially better over the course of life than the person without. then along comes the government and tells that person, you don't have to pay your loan. nobody is telling the person who's trying to set up a lawn service business that he doesn't have to pay as loan. he still does, even though his tax dollars are going to support the forgiveness of a loan for the college graduate who is not going to make a whole lot more of him over the course of his lifetime. in a car chief justice john roberts. the federal government has forgiven loans for lawn care companies and many other types of companies. according to federal records, a company in connecticut had a $358,760 loan forgiven for money received through the ppp and that is only one example. if you could address this? an overall, i mean, you people object to the g.i. bill were so

many people -- few people object to the g.i. bill. it was considered a very good thing, supported by the federal government. is it that over time the color, the complexion of the borrowers has changed and that is why there are questions being asked right now? >> i think that is a really important question. i don't think it is a massive coincidence same session the supreme court is hearing the case is about student debt relief, they will also potentially bring an end to race conscious admissions and affirmative action admissions. the question of who will be able to go to college and what financial burdens will follow them is really central to the supreme court's session right now. as to the issue of fairness, i

found this to be a humorous part of the exchange yesterday. the claims around what is fair. it would be fair if college was free for everybody so we did not have to try to pit one struggling worker against another struggling worker and who is making the better gamble of how to make their way to health insurance, to a job that will provide health insurance, a job that might provide sick time if they get ill. these are questions for people decide to go to college, they're not -- this is not a get rich quick scheme, it is to figure out how can i contribute to society? how can i provide for myself? what is going to be my path to have a meaningful wage that gives me a little bit of job protection? right now the decline of the labor movement, the erosion of labor rights, has basically routed that path through higher education.

we could have a very different situation for how people could get access to dignified wages, to secure jobs that provided health insurance, pensions, benefits. this is not the economy we are living under. this is -- if we route those kinds of social welfare provisions -- i am in canada right now and you don't need to go to college to get health care here in canada. there could be other arrangements on the table. that is not what we are working with. juan: we just have about 30 seconds, i want to ask you one other question. the reference of chief justice roberts in that clip we just played to getting a college education, graduating from a four-year college. do we have any data on the percentage of these loans that are basically -- these fly-by-night for-profit schools, everything from beautician programs promising the students

a career that never panned out or they never graduated from college, what percentage of the loans are represented by those kinds of outcomes? >> a vast majority of the people who have student debt never graduated from their programs. i think that is an important thing to consider. the fairness question that justice roberts is pointing out implies people are making a lot of money off their degree. we know that is not true. a lot of people are not even able to enter the program perhaps because the cost of tuition is so high for the debt loads are so high they have to take on other jobs to be able to pay for education to begin with. i think the point here, what is fair is for the government, who has the power to create these loans to begin with, has the power to cancel them if they so choose to, which is the basis of

president biden's really program. amy: ♪♪ [music break] , writer and postdoctoral fellow at concordia university's social justice centre in montréal. willing to your peace and "the new yorker" "how the government cancelled betty ann's debts" and follows up on her piece last summer on "the aging student dentures of america." striking miners returning to work after nearly two years. back in less than 30 seconds. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. we end today's show in alabama, where hundreds of striking miners are set to return to work thursday at the warrior met coal company after nearly two years on the picket line. the president of the united mine workers of america sent a letter to warrior met granting an unconditional offer to return to work as the two parties continue to negotiate a new contract. for more on the end of the longest strike in the history of alabama, a so-called "right-to-work" state with powerful anti-union laws, we are joined in birmingham by kim kelly, independent labor journalist who has covered the warrior met strike since it began. her new piece for the nation is headlined "why the warrior met strike is ending."

she is also author of the book "fight like hell: the untold history of american labor." welcome to democracy now! explain what is happening tomorrow and the significance of this longest strike in alabama history. >> thank you so much for having the and spotlighting workers' struggles. after 23 months, the coal miners are headed back to work start march 2 is the return to work date that president cecil roberts gay. it will be a long process. the company -- i acquired document from the company that expressed some of the conditions for the workers to return. they need to get physicals and drug tests and undergo safety training. it won't happen at once. the process has begun. this is a messy end to a long and grueling and difficult labor conflict here outside birmingham

alabama. these miners went on strike april 2021 and voted out a tentative agreement reached a few days later. i believe that was april 8 or ninth. they have been on strike ever since. it is been a slog. these miners have held the line. they have been supported by their families, local communities. alabama is a right to work state. this is not a union-friendly area. the local judiciary has made it incredibly difficult for them to hold their pickets and continue the strike. local law enforcement has made it clear they are not on the workers' side. after 23 months, the decision was made i leadership that they had to try a new tactic. the company has not been budging. the company has been profiting even with the skillet to -- skeleton crew of scabs.

it is a do or die point. as president roberts mentioned in the letter he sent, the only people being harmed right now are the miners and their families. union has changed tactic and the strike is no longer happening but the fight continues and they will keep fighting this at the bargaining table. overly, we will see some movement because these miners really need a break. juan: could you talk about the company's use of replacement workers and the impact that had in their ability to persevere against the union in this case? >> salute leave. one of the reasons warrior met coal has remained productive is it launched an extensive effort to recruit replacement workers, scabs, from other states. we have seen billboards as far away as tennessee, kentucky's

and we will give you benefits and bonuses. people working the mines right now who are replacement workers are making $2000 month bonuses that the workers whose jobs rightfully are were never making. it is our problem because these workers don't have the experience and the knowledge that the union miners have. some of these folks are new to mining. they were nine months, your post some folks on strike had been working for 20, 30 years. that makes a difference. the company's been able to exploit the fact workers need to pay the bills. call mining is a complicated industry. people have come down from other states and essentially taken these alabama workers jobs, crossed the picket line, helped to break strike. amy:arrior met reported large profits due to the mines running

the skyrocketing price of coal. can you talk about not only this and what that means, but also what it means to be in alabama? famously anti-labor state and what this signifies for the country right now? >> so much of this is sheer bad luck. the miners walked out april 1. in june 2021, coal prices skyrocketed. i believe they quadrupled. those prices have held. so throughout the entire strike or even other workers have been out, they headed running a skeleton crew, the owners have been able to profit for because of those coal prices. the market is not something workers can control. it is been a huge issue, a huge reason why theconomic impact has not been felt away the union and workers wanted it to be. the fact we are in alabama -- which i must say is a state with

a strong labor movement and incredibly rich work history. it is a right to work state which weakens the movement. law enforcement has been clear about who's side they're on in this conflict. they have turned a blind eye to violence on the picket line. alabama south, there's something that happens a lot when we talk about the deep south. alabama and mississippi and louisiana. there is an impulse for folks to write them off, ok, we're not going to be able to pull anything off here anyway. there's no point. but there are so many people that have been fighting for centuries whether we're talking about decades ago or sharecroppers for the amazon workers down the street in bessemer two years ago that launched the first ever to unionize and amazon warehouse in this country, there is a labor movement here. there are workers here but they

need support. they need better laws and politicians and officials to support them. this shows what happens when workers are abandoned by the people that are supposed to advocate for them and supposed to protect them. they are hung out to dry on left at the mercy of a wall street enter capital company that sees nothing but dollar signs when it looks at them. juan: we only have about a minute left but i would ask about the lack of support either focusing on the strike by the national media for national politicians, especially given the fact the biden administration claims to be so prolabor, there were no major political figures coming to alabama to walk the picket line or focus on the strike. >> the workers here have felt abandoned. basically, the issue with this strike is these are group a multi-lay show, blue-collar -- multiracial, blue-collar workers in alabama. the republicans know their union

so they don't care about them and democrat see them as a lost cause because many are conservative, politically conservative group of workers so they think it is not worth their time. but they are. this should have been the biggest labor story for the last two years and it wasn't. the partisan nonsense that dictates whose story gets covered and whose doesn't. amy: moving away from coal and how workers are included in that discussion? >> that is a big question for 20 seconds. one thing i want to mention about these workers specifically, the coal is used to make steel. if we went to a green economy tomorrow, these workers would still be heading down into the pits and that met coal and still be shipped overseas to industrialized countries. it is complicated but the thing i want to impress blisters with his we need to look after workers even if we don't like the jobs they're doing.

solidarity needs solidarity. we need to work this out together as we move forward because we can't afford to leave people behind. amy: kim kelly, thank you for being with us, independent labor journalist. we will link to your piece in the nation "why the warrior met strike is ending."

hello and welcome to transect i'm catherine kobayashi in new york. some ukrainians felt at the start of winter that they might not make it through. they feared russian forces would weaponized energy. a suspicion that came to pass. now they are welcoming what they consider to be the first day of spring.