03/02/23 03/02/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> russia attacked ukraine and russia is the country which must take a stepped up and do something so peace comes possible. what is necessary is the withdrawal of troops. amy: as russian and ukrainian forces battle for control of the city of bakhmut, calls are growing for the war to end but deep divisions remain on how

this could happen. a critical meeting of the g20 has ended without consensus on the ukraine war. we will get the latest. then we go to huwara in the occupied west bank. on sunday, hundreds of israeli settlers attacked e village, settin homes and cars on fire and carrying out what's been described as a pogrom, all while the israeli army looked on. >> what we have seen in this house is evidence of how big the crime carried out by the settlers covered and protected by the army is. it is clear this move is supported by a political decision from the israeli government. amy: isra's new finance has called for huwara to be wiped out or erased. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. a critical meeting of foreign ministers from the g20 has ended

in new delhi, india, without any agreement on the ukraine war. the meeting wrapped up after u.s. secretary of state antony blinken and russian foreign minister sergey lavrov spoke briefly in a meeting between u.s. and russian officials in months. their 10 minute conversation came after a russian missile slammed into a high-rise apartment building in the ukrainian city of zaporizhzhia, killing at least four people. meanwhile, ukrainian officials said for the first time they're contemplating a tactical withdrawal from the eastern city of bakhmut, where russian forces have mostly cut off remaining civilians from humanitarian aid. this is ukraine's president volodymyr zelenskyy speaking earlier this week. >> the hardest is still bakhmut and the battles that are essential. i will give you one example. we are holding the staff meeting quite often now, at least twice

a week. the last meeting was on thursday and today, the general reported since the last meeting, about 800 in these have been killed in this direction alone. the intensity of the fighting is only increasing. amy: finland's parliament has voted overwhelmingly to join nato, setting the country up to become the military alliance's 31st member. wednesday's vote came just days after finland began constructing a 120-mile wall topped with razor wire along its 800-mile border with russia. in hungary, the party of far-right prime minister viktor orban said wednesday it will endorse the expansion of nato to include finland and sweden. that leaves turkey as the only nato holdout. turkish president recep tayyip erdogan has rejected sweden's accession to nato after accusing it of harboring dissidents he considers terrorists. sweden and finland had hoped to join nato simultaneously. at least that ishat the united

states government wanted. the biden administration has announced $619 million in high-tech arms sales to taiwan, including new missiles for its f-16 fighter jets. the deal will primarily benefit weapons makers raytheon and lockheed martin. after the sale was announced, taiwan reported china's ai force flewarplanes into air space taiwan considers part of its air defense identification zo. the u.s. air force says it has relieved six officers at a north dakota nuclear missile base after their units failed a it's not clear exactly what lapses prompted the firings. the minot air force base is home to more than two dozen b-52 nuclear-capable bombers, as well as 165 minuteman iii nuclear-tipped intercontinental ballistic missiles. this follows a previous safety

lapse at the base in 2007 when a b-52 bomber flew to louisiana carrying six nuclear-armed cruise missiles without the knowledge of the flight's crew. in israel, police fired tear gas and stun grenades wednesday at thousands of people who have blocked a highway in tel aviv to protest plans by the far right government of benjamin netanyahu to get israel's judiciary. 11 east raley's were hospitalized with injuries. it was the first time during mass protest police used large-scale violence against israeli citizens. and jerusalem, dozens of protesters dressed as handmaids from the novel "the handmaid's tale" rallied outside israel's supreme court wednesday. >> it feels like we could say goodbye to democracy because on one hand the knesset has the ability to pass whatever law they want in on the other hand, the court will not have the ability to stop anything like

that. any court that would hurt whether women for lgbt or any other minority, can pass with no one to stop it. amy: it came as the u.s. state department condemned the comments of israel's finance minister who on wednesday called on israel to erase the palestinian town of hawara. his comments came after jewish settlers burned cars and homes and killed a palestinian man. this is the state department spokesperson ned price. >> irresponsible, they were repugnant, they were disgusting. and just as we condemn palestinian incitement of violence, we condemn these provocative remarks that also amount to incitement of violence. we call on prime minister netanyahu and other senior israeli officials to publicly and clearly reject and disavow these comments.

amy: later in the broadcast, we will go to hawara on the occupied west bank as well as tel aviv. the u.s. intelligence community has rejected claims that a foreign power rererewas response for a series of unexplained injuries and illnesses suffered by u.s. officials working overseas. the episodes were dubbed "havana syndrome" after diplomats at the u.s. and canadian embassies in cuba reported dizziness, headaches, and other symptoms in 2016. since then, about 1500 u.s. officials have reported ailments in 90 countries. after a two-year investigation, an assessment by seven u.s. intelligence agencies found no credible evidence that any u.s. adversary possessed a weapon that could explain the ailments, which the report said were likely due to pre-existing conditions, conventional illnesses, and environmental factors. at the white house, press secretary karine jean-pierre said the report's findings did not mean the u.s. would end

medical support for those suffering. >> this does not change the commitment the president has in making sure these families, colleagues in the workforce, get the help and assistance they need and will continue to work through that. amy: in greece, at least 46 people were killed and dozens more were hospitalized after a passenger train collided with a freight train late tuesday in the central city of larissa. it was the worst rail disaster in greek history. on wednesday the prime minister kyriakos mitsotakis accepted the resignation of top transportation officials and said the crash was primarily due to "tragic human error." greece has declared three days of national mourning. meanwhile in athens, police in riot gear fired tear gas at protesters who gathered outside the offices of the private company responsible for maintaining greece's railways.

greece privatized its rail system and other public infrastructure in 2017 as part of an imf bailout amid a debt crisis. new york city has agreed to pay a multi-million dollar settlement to protesters who were aggressively boxed in or "kettled" by nypd officers during the black lives matter demonstrations that swept the country following the police murder of george floyd in 2020. over 300 people who were kettled, then beaten, detained, or arrested new york police at the june 4, 2020 bronx protest will each receive $21,500. it's believed to be the largest class action settlement in a case of mass arrest. about a third of the demonstrators also previously settled with the city in separate claims. a human rights watch investigation said the nypd's conduct that day amounted to "serious violations of international human rights law."

in california, around 80 prisoners at two immigration and customs enforcement facilities have gone on hunger strike for nearly two weeks. they say they are willing to risk their lives to fight against the inhumane conditions they are facing. a group of the hunger strikers from the mesa verde and golden state annex jails sued ice and the private prison corporation geo last week for retaliating against them by cutting off their heat, denying family visits and recreational time, and threatening solitary confinement. this is a stryker speaking anonymously over the phone from the golden state annex. listen closely. >> four walls. [inaudible]

amy: the hunger strike follows a labor strike protesting prisoners' $1-per-day wage for 8-hour shifts. earlier this week, local activists held a solidarity protest at the oakland state building. also this week, demonstrations took place across the country marking 20 years of harm by ice, the department of homeland security, and customs and border protection. ornizers are calling for an end to government fundinfor the agencies, which over the past 20 years have systematically targeted immigrants, muslims, and communities of color using surveillance, detention, torture, military occupation, and inhumane immigration policies. this is dr. maha hilal from the muslim counterpublics lab speaking at wednesday's protest in d.c. >> dhs has surveilled, detained, tortured, and punished communities with draconian

immigration laws. dhs has also targeted black lives matter activists, created and spearheaded a violent extremists program to target communities, tearing families apart, putting people in cages, and executing foreign nationals across the border. amy: a judge has ordered starbucks to reinstate illegally fired employees, reopen closed stores, halt union-busting tactics, and take other reparative measures after ruling starbucks engaged in egregious and widespread misconduct following the establishment of the chain's first unionized store in buffalo, new york. meanwhile, dozens of white-collar starbucks workers have signed an open letter condemning starbucks unionbusting and protesting the company's return-to-office

mandate. the employees say "morale is at an all-time low" and warn "these actions are fracturing trust in starbucks leadership." in illinois, residents and activists from chicago's south side successfully passed two measures in this week's city election, calling for housing protections related to the construction of the new obama presidential center. the 19-acre center will house a public library, playground, community centers, and a museum. but community members in the majority-black south shore say the project has already led to gentrification and displacement. the measure passed tuesday calls for eviction protections and rental assistance, city funding for home repairs and mortgage assistance, development of affordable housing on city-owned lots, and 75% affordable housing on a vacant city-owned lot in nearby woodlawn. groups organizing with the obama community benefits agreement coalition celebrated the overwhelming approval of the non-binding referenda and say they will continue fighting to make sure the city follows through on their demands.

and pentagon papers whistleblower daniel ellsberg has announced he has been diagnosed with an operable pancreatic cancer, giving him an estimated three to six months to live. it was 51 years ago that the "new york times" began publishing excerpts of the papers leaked by daniel ellsberg . 7000 pages of top-secret documents outlining the pentagon secret history of u.s. involvement in vietnam is 1940's. the leak exposed years of government lies and would end up helping to end the war in vietnam and the two major victory for press freedom. dan ellsberg reports since his cancer diagnosis, he has done several interviews and webinars on topics include ukraine, nuclear weapons, and first amendment issues. he wrote "i work better under a deadline. it turns out i live better under a deadline." and those are some of the

headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. when we come back, calls are growing for the war in ukraine to end but deep divisions remain on how this could happen. more in a minute. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "somethings wrong" by kate fagan. democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman, joined by my co-host nermeen shaikh. hi, nermeen. nermeen: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: a critical meeting of foreign ministers from the g20 has ended in new delhi, india, without any agreement on the war in ukraine. india's foreign minister said, "we uld not reconcile as various parties held differing views." earlier today, u.s. secretary of state tony blinken spoke briefly with russian foreign minister sergey lavrov. it was their first meeting since russia's invasion of ukraine.

the g20 meeting comes a week after china released a 12-point peace plan to end the war. on wednesday, chinese president xi jinping joined with the belarusian president alexander lukashenko calling for a ceasefire and negotiations. the united states has dismissed china's proposal. on wednesday, blinken said he has seen "zero evidence" that russian president vladimir putin is ready to engage in negotiations. meanwhile, the italian prime minister giorgia meloni has urged the indian prime minister narendra modi to play a central role in facilitating ceasefire negotiations. the g20 meeting comes as intense fighting continues in eastern ukraine where russian forces have almost fully surrounded the city of bakhmut where thousands of ukrainian civilians have been cut off from humanitarian. -- humanitarian aid.

to talk more about the possibility of negotiations to end the fighting, we are joined by two guests. from berlin, we are joined by wolfgang sporrer, a conflict manager and an adjunct professor at the hertie school in berlin. from 2014-2020, he was head of human rights for the osce's special monitoring mission in kyiv. and in london, we are joined by vladislav zubok, professor of international history at the london school of economics. his december article for foreign affairs is headlined "no one would win a long war in ukraine: the west must avoid the mistakes of world war i." he is the author of "collapse. the fall of the soviet union." we welcome you both to democracy now! let's again with professor vladislav zubok. let's take the title of your piece as you talk about "no one

would win a long war in ukraine" and put it in context going back to world war i. can you lay out your argument and what you think needs to be done? >> thank you. it is good to be on your sw. i would call it untimely because the moment my article was published, president zelenskyy declared an u.s. congress his desire for a complete victory. i should say in advance my proposal was not to oppose negotiations. i am very skeptical even more today than back in december that any side are ready for negotiations. my idea was to tap out how would it look after russia had to accept its defeat and how to make it a more palatable solution for some parts of the russian elites that want to switch from this attitude of

aggression, aggression and imperialism, to a diffent, more diplomatic approach to the west. i went through several obvious aspects of possible maps was the first of all, continue to help ukrainto achieve military gain but also indicate on the litical level to ssian elites and russian populace that this war is unwinnable for them and ong with the work continues, it will be greater danger of another collapse, just as what happened to the soviet union 30 years ago. the second part of this map is to offer some possible carrots, trade-offs, to return russia after it accepts defeat and withdraws forces into the era economic, political space. in the political sense, i wrote

we need to offer the return of the genesee to certain individuals -- legitimacy to certain individuals as a trade offer them accepting defeat. in the economic field, there should be some talk about the conditions for removing sanctions. we know from the cold war, and from the histo of worlwar i after germany accepted an armistice, still subject to very humiliating and painful blockade by the allies. there should be some discussion what will russians gain economically if they accept and agree to tal with ukraine on the damage control. and financially, there is an issue of frozen assets and compensation to ukraine. all we hear from some supporters of ukraine and ukrainians themselves is about punishment. we don't hear anything about

tariffs, which is understandable. we are in the midst of a brutal war with russia committing so many atrocities. but without certain carrots, at least adess for the postwar period, we risk the dangerous path after world war i. nermeen: that foreign affairs peace, speaking of you just mentioned the war may be unwinnable for russia, but you begin the foreign affairs piece by site income is by the chair of the joint chiefs of staff mark milley. he said the probability of a complete ukrainian military victory was not hi, nevertheless, he said president biden ukraine to decide whether to negotiate with russia. let's go to his comments. he made these comments in november. >> the military task, militarily kicking the russians physically out of ukraine is a very difficult task.

it is not going to happen in the next couple of weeks unless the russian army completely collapses, which is unlikely. so in terms of ability, the probability of a ukrainian military victory defined as kicking the russians out of all of ukraine to include what they define or what they claim is crimea, the probability of that happening anytime soon is not high. the russian military is really hurting bad. you want to negotiated time when your opponent is at weakness. it is possible, maybe to be a political solution. nermeen: those were comments of general mark milley made in november. your response to what he said and especially the comment he made about negotiating from a position of strength, how do you assess the situation now? and what prospects do you see grainy talks between russia and

ukraine? >> we have three months when other side made any breakthrough after the spectacular liberation of territory by the ukrainian army. we have more and more that begun to talk about a stalemate, which is what was the starting point at my piece inovember. i am not a military expert and war is highly volatile. i think ukrainians disagree with mark milley. even forcing russians ou of crimea, they have a secret plan, they have various ielligence for that which i'm not aware of -- we may have surprises. but what i want to stress, mark milley is a good authority because he went through several wars where you achieve military goals but you don't achieve

political goals. the war i iraq and afghanistan ow that. in a sense, to add his argument about theefine military defeat, complete defeat of russia is unlikely, i would add a political factor. as long as putin and his entourage contues to view ts or as a war about heritage and a war of defeat or defeat of ukraine or defeat of russia which equals in his mind to the demise of russia -- until then we have an intractable political dilemma that there is no political culture play to this, no alternative the west offers putin. there were a few words by biden that this was not against the russian people. iteeds to be more loud and pronounced andore specific i

would say so that parts of the populace and russian elites would see, wait a minute, it is not about the dilemma whether we win or perish, it is a senseless war and we have to end it soon. the west must come up with something more politically specific to address russian insecurity and concern. which is not easy. the third parof my article is about selling peace. so many people accuse me of appeasing putin, blamed me for offering -- which w not my intention. my intention was to avoid the aftermath of the war which would be dangerous both for russia with nuclear weapons in russia and for it neighbors and for the architecture of european peace in general. nermeen: wolfgang sporrer, you were involved in the minsk talks

from the outset. could you talk a little -- give us a background of this war you were involved with as i said from 2014 with the russian annexation of crimea as a member of the osce's special monitoring mission. >> well, the talks that took place in minsk where there to implement the so-called package of nations that was concluded in march of 2015. this in essence meant there were security provisions and there were political provisions. political provisions were in essence about giving more rights to the people living beyond so-called contact land. where is the political provisions were about also

transforming the state of ukraine, for making it into a more decentralized society, is sarah the security provisions were in essence about a cease-fire. and both parts of the provisions -- the russian federation really never showed a big interest in fulfilling the sacred provisions of the minsk agreements and ukraine never really felt a big intention. in my opinion, to fulfill the political provisions of the minsk agreement. however, i think it is a mistake to believe that the minsk agreements, just because they did not lead to full implementation, were actually complete failure because they were not. this is where we can learn potentially some things for the situation today. the minsk agreements did not solve the russian-ukrainian conflict.

they did not. but they did bring about certain humanitarian positive steps. they brought about temporary cease-fires. they brought about disengagement zones around the humanitarian facilities. they brought about the reconstruction of critical infrastructure. so they brought about humanitarian steps. they did a second thing. they kept a minimum of trust between the sides, between the russians and -- the russian federation and ukraine because they were simply meeting every two weeks. they had a real possibility to voice their concerns, to talk to each other officially but also to talk to each other outside of the official settings -- which is something that brings a minimum of trust. and therefore, my proposal was

to somehow try to get to proper negotiations, to real political negotiations over a cease-fire in the current conflict via first really small steps. that means why can't russia and ukraine not find a forum, an internationally mediated forum where they will talk about exactly humanitarian protection zones, about disengagement around the atomic power plant in zaporizhzhia, about small potential cease-fire or the beginning of school, for the harvest, for the throwing of the fields? this would bring about the exact same advantages, namely humanitarian advantages and every life saved is a big step in the right direction. secondly, the ground to be prepared to establish some kind

of little small trust which has been completely lost by now both by -- by both sides. and thirdly, such a forum, where the sides would meet and be in position to interact on a permanent basis with neutral mediation but with other countries such as the west, it would probably also have a ds will tour effect -- the escalatory effect. this would likely have the effect of preventing escalation that might otherwise take place. this is what we can maybe take from the failed minsk negotiations forward into some kind of segue into negotiations, how they could start now. amy: wolfgang sporrer, take that a step farther.

what countries do you see mediating that negotiation? today you have the image of lavrov and blinken shaking hands but at the same time, you have the u.s. increasing tension with china, sending over $600 million in weapons to taiwan. you have putin and xi jinping's alliance. where do you see this happening? >> the location is i think of secondary importance. i can see istanbul. let us not forget it is where right now russia and ukraine and officials are sitting together on a daily basis, negotiating in the context of the black sea european initiative. another location i think would be -- istanbul would be a good

location. another question, who could play the role of mediator? i hear on many occasions that people think about personalities like the brazilian president lula. we just heard in your news that potentially the indian prime minister modi. i am a little skeptical of this as i would not be surprised if either ukraine or russia actually rejects -- would reject these countries as a mediator because they do not actually -- they would probably not assign that amount of impartiality to these countries. it is my guess at the moment. however, i think organizations such as the united nations or the osce would be ideally suited

because they are kind of neutral by definition. that means the u.n. or osce could basically give the role of mediator to an imminent personality that enjoys the trust by both russia and ukraine. and such personalities do still exist. so the second, this would be under the auspices of the united nations or the osce taking place in istanbul or a comparable city with ukraine and russia as the main participants -- which is important, particularly for the de-escalatory unction of the city with the west, the united states, european union, china, india, and turkey as observers

of this process. they are to facilitate when they can. they are to work with their allies when they can and when needed. now, the question is, why should the sides to the conflict -- at this point in time, he ready to engage in something like this? let me just underline, participating in such negotiations, that does not cost the sides anything. it does not mean a change in the position in the field, it does not mean giving up any type of political for military position that you have held so far. so this would be a negotiation that could be entered into at zero cost for the sides but with potentially great benefit, but also should be entered into with no preconditions. i think it would be the duty of the west on the one side and of china and india on the other

side to convince both russia and ukraine to inform them constructively that participation in such negotiations would be deemed as highly welcome. nermeen: professor, if you could respond to what our guest wolfgang sporrer said and also talk -- another article that you wrote in the spectator last year just days after the invasion headlined "the post-soviet routes of the war in ukraine" in which you talk about the significance of the crimea khrushchev in 1954 handed over crimea to ukraine, the soviet republic, and affect said that crimea is the principal or one of the principal obstacles to russia and ukraine speaking at the moment. >>ou raised two important points. i read with great interest what

dr. sporrer wrote about the importance of talks. i am all in favor of this idea for sort of a dry run of talks of the future. plenty of experience during the cold war, for instance talks on pows and mias were taking place during the koreawar between the sides and the war still lasted in a stalemate for a couple of years if not more. and then finally -- eisenhower was elected and aew political establishment emerged. the talking points, futile talks, suddenlyecame a vehicle for signing an armistice. so the very existence of this venue or i would say practice where the sides meet and talk is really important to prepare for the future. i would be very skeptical about involving multilateral

organizations or organizions like osce forne simple reason. in the russian eyes, most of the members of the oyster eer members of nato. and also tkey is very important but turkey is also never of nato. what is important i think that only of credibility and impartiali, but also power. previous negotiations that led to some kind of sutions, not saying those solutions were good or bad, just solutions to military conflicts likend of the korean war and mentioned, the end of the indochina work, even paris talks that ended the second indochina war between the united states and what vietnam, they involved several parties but not multilateral organizations. r me, i don't have that experience that wolfgang sporrer

has, i am a hiorian, but for me to ideal accommodation would be ukraine and the u.s. on one side and russia and china on the other. on crimea, of course we have a bone of contention between the two sides. but let me say it became much worse now becauserom the russian perspective, if putin loses crimea, that would mean the end of his claim on catherine the great and all the russian rates. huge humiliation. even the blowup -- it would be a huge blow to him. exactly for this reason, the ukrainians realize this is an achilles' heel. for ukraine, crimea is no longer only from which russia could

deliver another attack, but also an opportunity as khrushchev used to say about his partners to grab putin by theballs. sorry for the expression. if they managed to ease the russian forces -- the russian navy and destroy the black sea navy, that was the intolerable elation for tin, which from the ukrainian perspective would kill all the birds they want to kill, not only remove the russians from the ukrainian territory, but to topple the autocratic regime of putin. amy: we want to thank you both for being with us. they're so much to discuss and we will continue to do so. professor vladislav zubok, professor of international history at the london school of economics. and wolfgang sporrer is a conflict manager and an adjunct professor at the hertie school in berlin, germany stop we will

link to all of your pieces at democracynow.org. next up, we go to tel aviv and hawara in the occupied west bank. on sunday, hundreds of israeli settlers attacked the village and what has been described as a pogrom while the israeli army looked on. israeli finance minister has called for hawara to be wiped out. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. a top israeli official has called for the palestinian village of hawara to be wiped out or erased just days after hundreds of israeli settlers attacked the city, setting cars and homes on fire and killing a palestinian man who had just returned from turkey where he was helping with relief efforts

after the earthquakes. israel's far right finance minister bezalel smotrich made the shocking comments on wednesday. >> hawara needs to be wiped out. amy: the prime minister visited hawara to meet with families who survived the violent attack. clips what we have seen in this house is evidence of how big the crime carried out by the settlers, covered and protected by the army, is. it is clear this move supported by a political decision from the israeli government, therefore, three sides are partners in his crime and government, which takes a political decision, the army who is protecting, and the settlers who are implementing. this is what we saw here. amy: the israeli human rights group b'tselem accused of

backing a pogrom saying -- wednesday, the israeli commander admitted what happened in hawara was a pogm. >> the incident was a pogrom carried out by outlaws. we were prepared as we prepare for every terror attack. there is a phenomena that s taken to intersections to throw stones and block paltinian roads in the area. i d't think the collective punishment helps to combat terrorism. on the contrary, i think it might even cause terrorism. amy: this settler attack in hawara again hours after palestinian gunmen shot dead two these really brothers from a nearby settlement.

meanwhile, the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu's government continues to face mass protest from israelis opposed to the plan to overhaul the legal system. on wednesday, israeli police fired water cannons and stun grenades are protesters taking part in a so-called day of disruption as thousands protested in tel aviv. we're joined now by two guests. gideon levy is an award-winning israeli journalist and author. he's a columnist for the newspaper ha'aretz and a member of its editorial board. his latest piece is headlined "israeli settlers' hawara pogrom was a preview of sabra and chatila 2." gideon levy also the author of the book "the punishment of gaza." saddam omar is a resident of huwara who has witnessed the attacks by israeli settlers. let's begin there. can you talk about what happened on sunday? where were you in hawara? describe where hawara is in the

occupied west bank. >> first of all, good morning to you and to everybody. i want to -- let me remind everyone that this tragedy started not on sunday. this started more than 106 years and are suffering is going on since that time. actually, israel, as you know, occupied west bank and the gaza strip. since that time, they violated internationalaw by moving hundreds of thousands of jewish-only squatters io the palestinian occupied land. at this point, palestinians have been assisting the occupiers.

for hawara and what happened sunday night, it was not the first time and it was not only for killing two israelis in hawara. a few days before when the israeli army did a massacre, they killed 11 people, including two old men in their late 70's and two children. this terrorism led by the israeli army is a continuous action since 1967 and before that time. the campaign that happen in hawara on sunday night was

protected land recognized by the israeli army. those squatters helped protect it, organize the settlers to do what they did. the army prevented any citizen to defend himself and you saw what happened to a man who simply came back from turkey helping people there after the catastrophe of the earthquake. a few days later, those squatters, settlers attacked him . he was trying to defend his

wife, mother, sisters, children. they prevented him and killed him in cold blood. the army now in control by bezalel smotrich and gideon -- this sucke this accident -- thassacre, this accident happened in hawara supposed to making the settlers to take control of the whole west bank. the israeli occupation army is complicit in terrorism committed by the israeli government against palestinian civilians.

this terrorist attack against the residence of hawara, prepared by the occupation army and militia. we all heard what bezalel smotrich said, hawara must be wiped out. it is not a new thing. the previous militias of those settlers already wiped out more than 500 villages and towns of palestine when the occupied lands of 1948 and 1967. hundreds of thousands of palestinians were evicted from their houses and homes to the west bank, jordan, egypt,

lebanon, syria, iraq, and worldwide. the extent of israel is a threat to palestinians, to the region, into the whole world. this is what i believe. nermeen: gideon levy, could you talk about what happened in hawara and also the massive increase in settler violence since this far right government camento power? >> we should not stop with this violent government because the last year was the so-called moderate government was not any better. there were almost 200 palestinians killed this year, more than any other year in the last 50 years. so we could not put all the blame on this government. i came to hawara on the morning

after. hawara was practically under a curfew. what i saw there, i saw very few times in 35 years of covering occupation. it really looked like a town after a pogrom. there is no other way to describe it. quite horrified people and shocked people sitting in their homes, afraid to get out. all the shops closed. only traffic, if you would believe it, amy, the only traffic that was allowed was obviously the settlers who came back to see what they had done the night before and what they did not complete. they did it in a very brutal way, as they always do. don't forget, there were 400 settlers in hara the night before according to the army, which means there might have

been even more. and nobody stopped them. maybe this is the core issue, the fact that nobody stopped the raid of 400 settlers on an innocent village. nermeen: saddam, could you describe what the situation is in hawara today? you said immediately after the massacre, a curfew was imposed. what is the situation now? >> it is a total closure. shops, markets are totally closed. nobody is allowed to open their shop or supermarket or whatever it is. if you try to open your shop, you will be arrested immediately. yesterday, a citizen called omar

had been arrested for trying to open his shop. according to what we witnessed, the occupation army did not take as yours to block the settlers path to hawara nor did it stop them from systematically attacking palestinians and their property. no did it carry outppropriate -- they claim to have arrested but until now, we saw nothing. the occupation army sought to let the army vent their anger. the occupation department of israel did not take any action to arrest the settlers and instead bezalel smotrich

publicly supported the settlers by saying words like " hawara should be wiped out." the israeli settlers took advantage by inflicting millions of dollars of damage on the town of hawara by destroying everything in sight. there was not a specific target, rather it was whatever was in their line of sight. trees, cars, shops, homes, livestock, markets, supermarkets -- whatever they saw, they destroyed. they were being guarded by the israeli army who trailed behind them a few meters for protection. hundreds of the residents were injured from the barbaric -- they lit homes on fire while people were still inside. they used tear gas.

they threw stones. they used iron rods. amy: i want to -- >> yes, please. amy: i want to bring gideon levy back into this because we are seeing massive protests in the streets of tel aviv with stun grenades and water cannons, but they're not protesting what is happening in hawara, there protesting the benjamin netanyahu's attempt to gut the israeli judiciary. are these protes morphing into what happened in hawara or are they two complete issues for israeli? >> not two complete different issues at all. the problem is, they want to keep an eye closed and not to see the occupation as part of the problem of the israeli

democratic regime or nondemocratic regime. this is really outrageous because it is not that they don't feel with hawara, they do anything possible to break away from dealing with hawara with all of those issues which are part and parcel of israel's regime. therefore, cannot participate by all means, protest over democracy for the jews in the state of israel. anyone who really looks for equality and democracy cannot participate in this protest, as impressive as it is, as powerful as it is. but we have to remember, there are concerns only about themselves, only about democratic regime for the jews in israel, not anyone else that lives between the jordan river

and the mediterranean. nermeen: we just have a minute. set them, what do you think the international community should be doing? how can the palestinians be suprted now given this massive onslaught of violence? >> i want to addomething, you n only describe it as an ethnic cleansing that is the proper description for what h happened. but for the international community, we need them to interfere and bring peace and stability to the middle east. not united states. the united states of america is a party to the conflict. the united states of america is part of is conflict. it is not a reree. the usa is not the judge, the

proper judge for this conflict. amy: sadam, we have. >>. >> five seconds united states of america providing the occupiers with support. they have to stop and international community should interfere to protect civilians -- on america

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