03/07/23 03/07/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> it seems the cost crisis grows most difficult by the day with the war in ukraine accelerating the prices of energy and food. the impact of conflict, hunger and extreme poverty, as result is a perfect storm for perpetuating poverty and injustice. amy: as the u.n. secretary

general blasts wealthy nations for rigging the global economy for their benefit, we will speak to the nobel prize winning economist joe stiglitz about how war, the pandemic, and the climate emergency are causing economic crises across the globe. and as we move in on the 20th anniversary of the u.s. invasion of iraq, we will speak with msnbc host mehdi hassan about his new book "win every argument" and his views on fox news. >> it is hard wn 20% to 30% of the american public has been cocooned off in a bubble where they are fed disinformation by the likes of ingram and hannity and rupert murdoch who said, yeah, my hosts said the big lie. i don't believe it, but according to the reporting, he headed over as that have not yet to jared kushner, big strategy to jared kushner. if any other news organization

-- amy: this as a republican house speaker kevin mccarthy hands over 40,000 hours of january 6 video to fox. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the biden administration is considering a plan to start detaining asylum-seeking families who are apprehended in the u.s.-mexico border after u.s. officials had largely ended the practice over the past two years. the move comes as the u.s. continues to intensify its crackdown on asylum-seekers as it prepares to phase out the contested trump-era title 42 pandemic policy in may. the rule has been used to expel over 2 million migrants without due process at the southern border. silky shah of the detention watch network said on twitter --

"biden confirming his obama 2.0 status with this news. i really hope it's a trial balloon that doesn't go anywhere, but if not they are definitely going to get a fight." last month, the biden administration proposed another policy that would force tens of thousands of asylum seekers to first seek protection in mexico or another country they passed through on their trek to the u.s. harsher immigration policies are forcing asylum seekers to rely on more dangerous methods and routes to reach the united states. in mexico, over 340 migrants from guatemala, honduras, el salvador, and ecuador were found in an abandoned truck in the state of veracruz on sunday. more than 100 unaccompanied migrant children were among the group. in tunisia, authorities have arrested hundreds of sub-saharan african refugees following president kais saied's racist remarks last month, calling for an end to sub-saharan migration as he claimed black migrants were part of a so-called plot to alter tunisia's demographics.

the comments have triggered a wave of violence and hate crimes against african refugees, forcing many of them to seek safety at the u.n.'s international organization for migration building in the capital tunis after facing attacks. the president has faced widespread backlash over his remarks. the rican union postponed a conference scheduled to take place in tunisia this month. meanwhile, the biden administration said it was concerned by the comments as well as the arbitrary arrest of refugees in tunisia. u.s. state department spokesperson ned price addressed the issue monday. >> these remarks are not in keeping with tunisia's long history of generosity and hosting and protecting refugees, asylum-seekers, and migrants. we are disturbed by reports of violence against these very migrants. we urge tunisian authorities to meet her obligations under international law to protect the rights of refugees and asylum-seekers and migrants. amy: south korea has agreed to set up a fund to compensate

victims of forced labor during japan's colonization of korea in the first half of the 20th century. south korea's foreign ministry plans to raise the funds through voluntary contributions by businesses. south korean survivors condemned the agreement as a betrayal by their own government. they've been pushing for the funds to come directly from japanese companies responsible for enslaving koreans, including nippon steel corporation and mitsubishi heavy industries. supporters of the victims rallied against the agreement at a protest in seoul on tuesday. >> we condemn the south korean government. it should have stood up for the japanese government and enged in diplomatic negotiations. >> japan should apologize and compensate. it does not make sense the government proposed it in a shameful way without japan's apology. amy: in washington, president biden celebrated the deal monday as a groundbreaking new chapter of cooperation and partnership between japan and south korea.

north korea's government has warned the united states against shooting down any of its missile s. kim yo jong, the sister of north korean leader kim jong un, said any such interception would be viewed as a declaration of war. her warning came a day after the u.s. flew a nuclear-capable b-52 bomber over the korean peninsula in a joint drill with sout korean warplanes. meanwhile, japan's space agency failed in its debut attempt to launch its new h3 rocket to orbit on tuesday after the vehicle's second-stage engine failed to ignite. the malfunction destroyed a land observation satellite that was designed to help detect north korean ballistic missile launches. u.s. house speaker kevin mccarthy is planning to meet taiwan's president in the coming weeks when she visits california. "the financial times" reports tsai ing-wen convincedccarthy to meet her on u.s. soil rather than in taipei to avoid an aggressive chinese military response. in beijing, china's new foreign

minister qin gang condemned the u.s. stance over taiwan tuesday in his first news conference since taking office. >> the chinese people have every right to ask why does u.s. talk at length about respecting sovereignty and territorial integrity in ukraine while disrespecting china's sovereignty and territorial integrity on the taiwan question. why does the u.s. asked china not to provide weapons to russia while it keeps selling arms to taiwan? amy: does remarks came as the chinese president xi jinping directly accused united states of suppressing china's development what is described as unusually blunt review of u.s. policy. xi said "western countries led by the u.s. have implemented all round containment encirclement and suppression against us, bringing unprecedented severe challenges to our countries development." ukraine's military leaders have called off plans to retreat from

the eastern city of bakhmut and are requesting reinforcements amid some of the heaviest fighting since russia invaded over one year ago. military analysts say that while both sides are suffering heavy casualties, russian conscripts and wagner group mercenaries are dying at a faster rate. this week, the u.s. think tank the center for strategic and international studies estimated russian deaths in ukraine have surpassed all its war fatalities since world war ii combined with as many as 250,000 dead and wounded in the first year of the russian invasion of ukraine. a court in belarus has convicted opposition leader sviatlana tsikhanouskaya to charges of treason, setting certain -- sitting sir -- sentencing her to 15 yearsn prison. in 2020, tsikhanouskaya ran for president against belarus's longtime leader alexander lukashenko after her husband sergei was jailed while running for president. she fled belarus to exile in neighboring lithuania after the election. in haiti, the humanitarian aid group doctors without borders is

considering suspending its operations as the island nation faces worsening gang violence and political instability. locals are also facing deepening food insecurity and hunger, while medicine and other resources are extremely hard to access due to the turmoil. human rights advocates have documented severe abuses including sexual violence and hundreds of killings. a new report by the u.n. says weapons are being smuggled from the united states and ending up in the streets of haiti. fighting has intensified between the control of territory, forcing families to flee their homes. >> i was sleeping on the street. i came back this morning and i see things are still the same. >> are you goingo leave the house? >> i have no place to go. i have no place to go. amy: the biden administration is

considering a plan to vaccinate millns of chickens against avian inuenza. the plan ces amid thworst outbreak othe viral sease in u.s. htorywhich hakilled tens of millions of domesticated chickensturkeys, a ducks, along with countless wild birds. it's been blamed for thounds ofea lion dehs in perund has sickened and killed dozens of other species, raising fears it could lead to community spread among humans. in georgia, prosecutors have charged 23 forest defenders with domestic terrorism charges after their arrests late sunday at a festival near the site of cop city, a massive police training facility being built in the weelaunee forest. on monday, atlanta interfaith clergy members joined activists calling on mayor andre dickens and other city officials to cancel the $90 million cop city project. >> to ignore the cries at the residence, the city of atlanta moves to destroy the nation's

largest urban forest and replace it with the largest militarized police training facility in north america. and may i add in the face of the violent rate that took place last night as ci residents gathered in solidarity to defend this forest. that is an example of the militarization that we are calling out. amy: in ohio, norfolk southern has agreed to a limited plan to relocate residents of east palestine affected by the february 3 rail disaster, which caused a massive release of vinyl chloride and other toxic chemicals. cal activis with the group river valley organizing called the move an important first victory but said in a statement -- "bottom line, this is not enough. a one mile radius for relocation doesn't reflect the facts on the ground that this chemical disaster has had a far reaching impact. we need to stop letting norfolk southern put their profits ahead of the people of our community."

and in minneapolis, environmental justice advocates are appealing to minnesota's state legislature and supreme court for relief after city councilors voted 7-6 to demolish a warehouse on a former superfund site in south minneapolis. the residence of the east phillips neighborhood and surrounding communities fear the demolition of the site would stir up toxic chemicals from a site known as the arsenic triangle and a proposed turning the bill into an indoor urban farm and community business hub. last month over 100 police swarmed the site and arrested eight activists who had occupied the space to prevent the demolition. this is a resident of the nearby complex which is home to many native americans. >> the way i found out about the site is i had lost my oldest son who is 16 to a heart condition he was not born with. my best friend lost a child at an early age of 20 after her second child to heart disease she was not born with.

we start learning about how toxic the air is in our community, and so we wanted to create a green space with green jobs and green training and it was going to be at this site right here but the city threatened eminent domain. what they want to do is break down, demolish this building which is encapsulated arsenic. everything they want to bring in will create a lot more toxic pollution for our already over toxic community. amy: and those are some of the headlines, this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. when we come back, we'll speak to with nobel prize winning economist joe stiglitz about how war, the pandemic, and the climate emergency are causing economic crises across the globe. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report.

i'm amy goodman in new york joined by democracy now! co-host juan gonzález in chicago. hi, juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: well, it has been nearly three years since much of the world shut down as covid 19 rapidly spread across the globe. and it is just over a year since russia invaded ukraine. these two events -- the pandemic and the war -- have reshaped the global economy. some have seen their wealth soar but billions have suffered. earlier this week, u.n. secretary general antonio guterres addressed the opening of the summit of least developed countries in doha, qatar. >> using the cost of living crisis grows most difficult by the day with the war in ukraine accelerating the rising prices

of energy and food. the impact of conflict, the extreme poverty, and the result is a perfect storm for perpetuating poverty and injustice. must end this storm. weust recognize it will require massive an sustainable investment. and least developed countries require and deserve massive financial and economic support. for your countries, progress sustainable goals start with ending hunger is about more than lines on a chart. it is a matter of life and death. and it is unacceptable if you are held back by processes and decisions that are made far beyond your borders. amy: to talk more about the state of the global economy, we

are joined by thnobel prize-winning economist joseph stiglitz. he is a columbia university professor, former chair of the council of economic advisers. professor stiglitz is also currently the chief economist of the roosevelt institute. we welcome you back to democracy now! it is great to have you with us. these are very, very difficult times. let's follow up on what the u.n. secretary-general has talked about, the crisis in the world today as we look at the international economic crisis soaring inflation, devalued currencies, nations across the globe confronting catastrophic debt crisis. can you talk about the situion globally? >> you described it. what concerns me right now is all this is being made worse by monetary policies. the federal reserve raising interest rates.

when the problem is not excess aggregate demand, the problem is a supply-side interruption caused by the very forces you described -- the war and the pandemic. let me be frank, raising interest rates designed to slow the economy down, increase unemployment, is going to be not right policy for addressing the inflation that we face. amy: you're talking about jay powell, the federal reserve chair who will be addressing congress or speaking to, question by congress today and tomorrow. you are a fierce critic. >> that's right. i think they misdiagnosed the problem. and because of the misdiagnosis, the solution is not only the wrong solution, it is a solution that may make things worse. raising interest rates to the

level of zero from where they were to normal level was the right move. we needed to normalize interest rates. but continuing to raise interest rates as having the effect of leading to exchange-rate evaluations, will worsen the mobile debt crisis, countries already over debt will find it even more difficult to pay back stop but even coming back to the united states, one major source of inflation is housing and increasing interest rates, inducing a reduction in investment in housing, making the problem even worse. when we have all of the supply-side interruptions, we

need more investment. his response is to have less investment. juan: joe stiglitz, for those people who are not versed in economics, why are higher interest rates so detrimental, especially to the global south? clearly, there is going to be a flight of investment capital from other portions of the world into u.s. treasuries and the impact this has on the debt of the countries of the global south as well as their own monetary value -- value of their own money. >> when the money leaves these other countries and goes into the united states and into the dollar, it increases the value of the dollar, decreases the value of your own crency. the problem is e money they borrowed overwhelmingly is denominated in dollars. so what they earn abroad, what

they earn at home is worth less relative to what they owe to their creditors. so it makes it harder and harder for them to pay. making it still worse is not only is the value of their currency lower, the interest rate they have to pay are higher. and making it still worse, the intent of this is to have a global economic slowdown. and so these countries that depend vitally on exports will find they can sell less, the value of what they are -- of their economy goes down, they are payingigher interest rates. the imf, the world banhave warnedbout a debt crisis, and what the federal reserve is doing now is making risk of a much worse mobile debt crisis.

countries that are poor will get even poorer. juan: i wanted to ask you about another impact of the war and ukraine that is not often talked about. for decades now, we have had proponents of neoliberalism claim free trade is the key to the world economic development. as you are mentioning, supply chain issues during covid as well as the war in ukraine have suddenly exposed the flaws of assuming that you have a world economic system where you can get goods from any part of the world just in time -- what is the future of the free trade not given the rising not only the pandemic but the impact of the ukraine war on the world? >> you put your finger on a major problem, of the kind of

economic system that we have developed in the last 40 years, what you call the new liberal system. it was shortsighted. we saw that in 2008. the global financial crisis caused by shortsighted banks, focusing on exploiting work, americans, predatory lending, excessive risk-taking. but part of this pattern of shortsightedness was saying, if i can get oil, gas come a few pennies cheaper, i will do it regardless of the risk. i wrote in my book in 2006 that europe is becoming so dependent on russian gas, it was foolish. it was shortsighted. putin was not a reliable source of energy. and unfortunately, that

prediction turned out all too true, leading to the energy crisis we faced in europe in the aftermath of the russian invasion of ukraine. so i think we have learned markets are shortsighd. they just-in-time inventory production system made our economy very unresilient. so the economic consequences of the pandemic were amplified by this fundamental mistake in the market economy. we always pointed out markets don't price carbon. that is the reason they engage an excessive pollution. but they also don't price risk. we are now rethinking the nature of the global economic system.

ironically, this is going on even on the part of those say republicans who supported free trade. the bipartisan bills on ira -- inflation reduction act and the chips act both ignored basic rules of the wto in trying to get preference to american firms and trying to resuscitate american production. they may be good policies, but they contravene international trading norms. so we are going to have to redefine the global international order. juan: i also want to ask you about the impact of the rising tensions between china and the united states for the world economy and especially for the poorer sectors of our planet.

we have seen the statement by president xi jinping recently climbing the united states is seeking to encircle and contain china. even more extraordinaire was a statement issued by the chinese foreign ministry just last week. it was an extraordinarily critical overview of how china sees the role of the united states and the world, claiming it is the greatest source of violence and instability in the world -- both militarily and economically. i am wondering what your senses of the potential impact that a lot of people who were claiming that we have got to get tougher on china, what the implications are for the economy given how much china has become the manufacturing center of the planet? >> first let me say, my first concern is that there are a

number of global problems that we need to work together. we have to address global warming. we are just getting over the pandemic. most epimiologists believe there is likely to be another pandemic. we don't know when but certainly when it occurs it will need high levels of global cooperation. so this heightened rhetoric of both sides has diminished our ability to cooperate in areas where we have to cooperate. of course, we have to be vocal in our criticism of the do munition of what china did to democracy in hong kong, what it is doing with the uighurs. i think we have to be frank about that. at the same time, i think we have to be very targeted in our

response. make it difficult -- it has made it difficult for us to undertake the cooperative actions that we need. at the same time, not only do we have to be blunt about the violations of human rights, democracy, we have to carve out some of the policies that have had devastating effects. china has lent money to many countries without appropriately assessing the returns of that money. sometimes there are allegations of corruption. but when countries have had problems, there is been a

reluctance to restructure debt. sri lanka has become the poster child. if a debt crisis that has been anticipated turns out to be real, there will have to be debt restructuring but thewill have to be comprehensive, including china and the private sector of the west. the private sector from the west is often engaged also in reckless lending and occasionally corrupt practices. so i don't want to put my finger in one direction, this is a global problem. there will have to be debt restructurings ande have to have ways of making sure money th is led to these countries are linked for productive purposes, not for enriching the lender for geopolitical reasons. amy: you the author, joe

stiglitz, of "the $3 trillion war." we are seeing war right now taking place in ukraine. the u.s. morning china not to send -- that there is a redline if they said weapons to russia. interestingly, almost the same day the biden, the secretary of state lincoln announced $600 million of u.s. weapons would be going to taiwan. can you talk about this and also how the war compares in dealing with conflict and the economy around the world, what it does? >> first, obviously, some of the asymmetry you point out doesn't make things better, it makes things worse. that i find it a little difficult for -- to understand

how we could have such blinkers on what we do, suggested by what you said. the second thing that -- a teacher at harvard with the book with me and we have been discussing how many of the lessons of the iraq and afghanistan war have not been learned. one of the points we made is how expensive that war was. we estimated at the time tree telling dollars -- we trillion dollars. probably more like five cholla dollars would be -- obably more like $5 trillion would be a bottom-linestimate. the american people were never taken in, told this is what it was going to cost. the accounting systems used by the government, by the department of defense, are

designed to obscure the true cost. there are special budgets -- not even congress fully discusses the entire comprehensive costs of these wars. and while i strongly support backing ukraine and resisting the russian invasion, i think it is important as a matter of public policy that we have greater transparency and greater accountability and we look for lawn on the cost as well as full on on the cost as well as the reasons for this war. juan: i wanted to ask you one of the key points i think you make often about income inequality, the growing income inequality in the world is that it is not a result of market forces but actually a result of concrete policies adopted by political

leaders. i wondering -- i am wondering as we head into more decisions have to be made by congress in terms of its policies on the economy, what do you see as the key issues that have to be addressed that will not only lessen income inequality here but around the world? >> you put it well. i have often written inequality poverty is a matter of choice. not the people themselves, but of our policy frameworks that lead to the levels of inequality. a wonderful example of that was the ability of the biden administration by the acts it took in responding to the pandemic to reduce childhood poverty buying estimated 40%, 50% in one year. we could have done it at any time in the past.

we could have adopted the policies which had enormous effect on child poverty. the reason i talk so strongly about child party, children growing up in party are not going to be learning, not going be as productive citizens. what we do today affects our economy, our society in the future. what worries me right now, for instance, is that a special emergency food that was given during the pandemic has just end ed this month -- last month in february. the result of that is millions of children who were moved out of poverty by that emergency food assistance are now being moved back into poverty. amy: you're talking about stepped on the supplemental nutrition assistance program. >> that's right.

it is estimated 4.2 main people above the poverty line in 2021 depended on those emergency assistance of snap and the effective that was to reduce poverty five 10% and childho poverty by 1 in those states that had that assistance. we ought to be recognizing we are now making another set of choices seemingly to increase poverty. a set of actions i find unconscionable. athe same time, we were talking a little bit earlier about the federal reserve increasing interest rates, slowing the economy.

it all sounds of technical. let's make it clear about what the fed is trying to do. it wants to increase unemployment. that seems like just a number, but increasing unemployment means millions of people will have no jobs. millions of people will move into poverty. millions of people's lives will be broken. education will be interrupted. it is particularly going to affect certain subgroups within our population. for instance, when the fed seemingly says, we are trying to target increase unemployment to a number like 5% -- can you believe it, the government saying we want there to be more unemployment? what that means for minorities is they are going to have unemployment rates twice that.

and for use minority, four times that. that means the federal reserve was there to be an unemployment rate oaccess of 20% for these groups. they should call on the government to do everything they can to improve the safety net, improve training programs for those going out of work. i ve not hrd a peep, not a word sing these increases in interest rates have toe accompanied by these measures if we are not going to increase the inequalities in our society, not going to increase the numbers of people in our society in poverty. amy: the same time, of student loan forgiveness being challenged by the supreme court. >> that's right. again, some people saying, it will have enormous neck or economic effects.

that is wrong. we have looked at the numbers. it is very cle the effect on inflation is nil. aggregate demand is very, very low. the reason is obvious. these are lifetime debts. just because much -- you can't squeeze water out a stone. but even for those who will be paying back, their annual paymentsre relatively low when there are so many not willing or able to borrow to get there debt s to offset the debt reduction. so the reality is that all this going on in the courts will have the effect of putting that chain of debt around the neck of

millions of americans, affecting how these young people start their lives, whether they can get married, buy a house, or eveny a car. impeding their ability to search for a job better matched to their abilities. so in that sense, it is pretty clear when you have that kind of debt change around the neck of young americans, it actually hurts national productivity. juan: joseph stiglitz, i wanted to ask if at the recent announcement by colombia's minister of finance to convene the first ever ministerial summit for the latin american and caribbean or tax summit for the latin american and caribbean region. do you have any hope this will help put an d to the abuse of tax havens and tax evasion by some of these, especially some

of the countries in the caribbean that are notorious for hiding money? >> i think his measure is very welcome. in response -- the response i think has been very positive. it is only one step but it is important step. another important step was the e.u.'s agreent to go ahead with corporate minimum tax tha makes it more difficult for these tax havens to try to attract corporations or at least to pretend their profits are generated in these tax havens so it is an important step, but a lot more is going to have to be done. the global proposal to have a global minimum tax was too weak.

it was only 15%. it should be 25%. there was a worry the effect of that agreement will be actually to lower tax rates in some countries because many countries have a corporate tax rate that exceeds the 15%. so i worried the minimum will actually wind up being the maximum and more corporations will not be paying their fair share of taxes. amy: we have to leave it there but we thank you so much for being with us. joseph stiglitz is a nobel prize-winning economist, columbia university professor and former chair of the council of economic advisers. currently the chief economist of the roosevelt institute. among his many books. coming up on this 20th anniversary of the u.s. invasion of iraq, we will speak with medhi hasan, the broadcaster,

msnbc host, now author of "win every argument." stay with us. ♪♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report.

i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. fox news host tucker carlson kicked off his first installment of analyzing footage from the deadly january 6 capitol insurrection that was shared with him by republican house speaker kevin mccarthy exclusively by playing cherry-picked clips on his top-rated show monday night. >> they were peaceful, orderly and meek. these were not insurrectionists, they were sightseers. footage from inside the capitol overturns the story you have heard about january 6. protesters in neat little lines. they give each other tours outside the speaker's office, take cheerful selfies and smile. they're not just trying to capitol, they revere it. they are there because they believed the election was stolen from them. they believe in the system. amy: tker carlson claimed the house january 6 committee withheld evidence about the attack on the capitol by trump supporters and said of the rioters -- "they were right.

in retrospect, it is clear the 2020 election was a grave betrayal of american democracy." this comes as trump addressed the conservative political action conference, or cpac, saturday night as he campaigns for the 2024 republican presidential nomination while facing multiple criminal investigations. pres. trump: in 2016 i declared i am your voice. today i add, i am your warrior. i am your justice. and for those who have been wronged and betrayed, i ayour retribution. i am your retribution. amy: "i am your retribution" trump said. other speakers peddling trump's big lie of election fraud got top billing at cpac, where they addressed half-filled rooms while calling trump the former and future president. for more, we are joined by mehdi hasan, journalist and author, host of weekly shows on msnbc and peacock. his new book is titled "win

every argument: the art of debating, persuading, and public speaking." congratulations on your book. no argument there. >> thank you. amy: your take on president trump and the kc is making for 2024? >> you played that clip of trump. that is pure unadulterated fascism. i know people even on the left don't like to use that word but a candidate who was previously incited in armed insurrection, when he stands up on stage and says you put me back in office and i will be your retribution, that is straight out of the authoritarian playbook. he is not hidi. he is saying it in the open. we know what is on offer from trump for 2024. we know this country is in line for were he to get back in.

let's not rule o -- people say, he can't win. of course he can. this is america. he has won before. for me it is chilling rhetoric and not something i take lightly. he is created in army of enemies and congress. his people at kevin mccarthy still covering for him, providing that footage to tucker carlsen who then lies about it on air. tucker carlsen himself who says, i don't believe in the big lie but then goes on tv and says he does. the trump enablers never cease to amaze me, amy. juan: i wanted to ask you in terms of this issue of authoritarianism, i don't know if you saw there was a piece by chris hedges, the former "new york times reporter" where he calls the crowd in the january 6 protes-- insurrection deplorable but at the same time,

he claims he believes that there is spent excessive government crackdown on them to the point that many people are being sentenced to long sentences for what are essentially minor crimes. he lays out the case that this is actually creating more divisions and in the country than necessary. i don't know if you have seen the piece. >> i have not seen it. i think anyone -- it is a very simple thought experiment. if the hundreds of people who attacked the capitol injured more than 140 officers, threaten the lives of members of congressave been black, if that had been a crowd of muslims, i can assure you and chris hedges the sentences would be far longer and ere would be no political support as there is from o political party of the "political prisoners."

they are not. i don't agree they have been treated in an excessive way. now, has serving and overfocus on the foot soldiers? on the ringleaders? that i agree with. has the department of justice in our judicial and legal system on only after the people who are ransacking the capitol and going after memberof congress and assaulting police officers? yes. at the expense of the people in charge, has. i am amazed we are more than two years at an donald trump is running for president. ink about how the rest of the world sees it. a president who lost an election refused to leave office, claimed he had not lost, incited in armed election, then left office and carried on inciting more insurrection is now running for office again and pulling pretty well. what would we save we saw that in another country? our judicial system clearly cannot handle a republican party

that is effectively pro-insurrection. anyone who says these people have been dealt with excessively needs to will the term "white privilege." juan: you have also been very vocal and followed the restrictions of voting rights all across the country. your sense of the impact this is going to have on our next election? >> i think we don't know is the honest answer. we had the midterms. thankfully, voters in key swing states rejected election deniers the secretary of state positions in places like michigan and arizona and georgia. they rejected gubernatorial candidate's who are election deniers. kari lake still not stepping she lost. that was a good sign out of the midterms. let's not be complacent. the threat to democracy is not

over. republicans controlling the house of representatives, we don't know whether they will in january 2025. it is likely they will. they control it currently. that is a real problem. i don't see house of representatives led by kevin mccarthy and marjorie taylor greene -- i think there are not election deniers and voter suppression laws to cause problems. look at flida where the majority of floridians voted in 2018 to restore voting rights to former felons, disproportionately black former felons, and ron desantis is on a crusade at the political and judicial levels to reverse that. the republicans are not sleeping on this. they are not relaxing on this. they are taking every possible measure to restrict the vote and young people from voting, people of color from voting because they know they can't win

otherwise. seven of the last 11 elections, republicans on the popular vote. amy: on the anniversary of bloody sunday which happened just two weeks after the assassination of malcolm x. i want to turn to your book "win every argument: the art of debating, persuading, and public speaking." i what to refer to a moment that you talk about where you're interviewing in october 2020 john bolton who was the bush white house national security advisor. he was promoting his memoir "the room where it happened" and he came on your show. this is what happened. >> hundreds of thousands of iraqis died, there is torture, millions of refugees, and i did follow from the decision by geor w. bush, did cheney, and

others in the administration like yourself to invade iraq . justo go back to my question you did not answer, did those deaths never weigh on your conscience? >> i did answer and i will answer it again since you did not seem to listen to . the fact was aft the overthrow of saddam hussein, a number of decisions could have been made in different ways. >> with respect, or not the pundit on fox news. you are in government. i don't remember you quitting in objection to the occupation. that occupation produced thousands of dead, tortured refugees, richard clark called it war crimes. kofi annan called it illegal. people have tried to do citizens arrest on you. do you ever where you have t face a court for the war crimes that happened back then?

>> of course not because what you're saying is completely ludicrous and those who made those kinds of criticisms are not reflecting what actually happened. amy: that is medhi hasan questioning the former bush national security advisor john bolton. i wanted to read a little paragraph from the guardian talking about you. r those who criticized the news media as to what, to christian, to complacent, too pompous, too prone to herd mentality and too deferential to authority, medhi hasan's come along in the nick of time, a british-born muslim of any dissent, muckraker, unabashed toward democracy. talk about this in the context of the argument you are making in "win every argument," what it means to go on bended need to power. >> thank you for having me on.

john bolton was the truck national security advisor. -- trump national security visor. the bolton interview is a good example of what the guardian nicely said about me which is right interviewed in 2020 and i was amazed no one had asked him a direct question was, how do you sleep at night? we can argue the rights and wrongs of the iraq war. no one has asked about his moral responsibility to everything that went down. when i asked him about it, he ran from it. he try to separate the occupation from the war. i feel like it has -- these are questions people have. they are legitimate questions. too many interviews in america

have been too deferential and my view to people in power whether they are republican or democrat or whatever it is. i come from the british media culture. the british media has its own deference to people in power but in terms of tv interviews as a culture of much more outspoken and much more combative inteiews and i try to bring that with into the u.s. media on my show on msnbc and on peacock and to try and give -- used twork at al jazeera english and the motto was give voice to the voiceless. i do an interview, i'm trying to think what questions and audience member would never get a chance to sit down with john bolton, what would they ask? i try to get an answer. that is an important point to make in the book. if someone is gas letting you and trying to steamroll you with nonsense, don't budge. do not move onto to the next question. do not allow them to distract and afflict. stick to your topic. juan: speaking of people in power, i would like to ask about

joe biden. unlike many on the left of the spectrum in america, have a kinder assessment of his role as president so far even though you are skeptical and did not initially support his candidacy. i am wondering if you could talk about that assessment? >> i'm going to push back and say -- a lot of lefties admit are surprisingly positively surprised by what biden has achieved. you can take bernie sanders at the top of that list, members of the squad. obviously, he is not as left-wing as we would like but more than we imagine. i thought he would not win the primaries. i worried whether he would be able to beat trump. he proved me wrong twice. i thought he would be a classically centrist neoliberal president and for the third time he surprised me. you look at what he has achieved

for the americanescue plan, one of the biggest poverty reduction acts in modern memory. the inflation reduction act and the record spending on climate change. not enough but more than his predecessors. he has done far more than barack obama and bill clinton. i think it is fair to say he has achieved more legislatively than any president going back to lbj, maybe back to fdr. now, has he done enough on immigration? not at all. i'm not a fan of his recent immigration moves, some of the stuff he did on covid, his israel-palestine policy. d ended the longest war in american history and did it add great political and personal cost. joe biden's polls took a nosedive when he pulled out of afghanistan with the entire beltway media, dz political establishment saying don't do it, this is a mistake. you have to give credit where credit is due now.

manual criticize -- manual criticize him. but of the big picture, whether we like it or not, he is the most centerleft president of our lifetime. amy: you had senator peter welch on your show this weekend who is supporting bernie sanders' call about the age of israel. you called what is happening a pogrom. >> that was an israeli general who used that word. many are starting to talk of the same debate. we cannot just give billions of dollars to israel every year when they carry out massive human rights abuses. we keep saying shared values and that is what we support israel. these are not shared values and i'm glad democrats are slowly starting to speak up. let's see if the rest of them do. amy: medhi hasan, thank you for

being with us, journalist and author, host of shows on msnbc and peacock. is -- his new book is "win every argument: the art of debating, persuading, and public speaking." [captioning made possible by democracy now!] ñtñf?o■ñ■#■#■#■■o;o;ó7ó7

welcome to nhk newsline. markets are reacting sharply to new testimony by the u.s. federal reserve chair. jerome powell