environmental impact of water privatization, on al jazeera. ♪ laura: a decades-long conflict in the region rich with natural resources. millions of people have been killed in the eastern democratic republic of congo, and millions more have been displaced. can this region ever find a lasting peace? this is "inside story." ♪ hello there and welcome to the program. i'm laura kyle.

the eastern democratic republic of congo has been in a state of conflict for more than 20 years. more than 100 fighting groups in the area. 5.6 million people have forced to flee their homes. a united nations security council team has just concluded a 3-day visit to the country. it called for a political solution to end the fighting. dozens of people were killed in the most recent attack by one main group called the allied democratic forces, which is reportedly linked to isil. and fighters from another major armed group, m23, have been taking territory and inching closer to the regional capital goma. we'll get to our guests in just a moment. first, let's take a closer look at this region. resource rich democratic republic of congo is bordered by rwanda and uganda, which are both accused of backing armed groups fighting the congolese government. these are charges they deny. m23 and the allied democratic forces are two of the most prominent armed groups in the area. more than 8000 people have been killed in the last five years,

regional mediation efforts have failed to stop the conflict, and some u.n. troops have also been accused of killing civilians. we will begin our discussion in just a moment. but first, malcolm webb reports from nairobi. reporter: m23 has continued advancing in recent weeks, and it's effectively encircled the provincial capital of goma as its fighters moved through masisi territory. tens of thousands of people have fled, reporting that m23 fighters have rounded up villages and executed them, clearing out entire communities who are now joining the already 800,000 people displaced by this conflict. m23 is widely understood to be backed by neighboring rwanda, although rwanda denies it. to the north, around the city of beni, dozens of civilians have been killed in allied democratic the last week. the allied democratic forces, or

adf is widely blamed, as it has been, for killing thousands of civilians in that area over the last ten years. it is an armed group that originated from neighboring uganda in the 1990's. in the 90's, the ugandan army pushed it into the forests of eastern congo, where it has been based ever since. a recent and ongoing ugandan military operation, ostensibly to pursue and defeat the adf, hasn't stopped the violence against civilians. regional peace efforts so far , have not worked. m23 has not obeyed regional calls for its fighters to withdraw and disarm. it has withdrawn from a couple of small towns, none of them of strategic importance. meanwhile, an east african regional force also hasn't yet made any difference. can you and brandy have sent troops. other countries in the region are supposed to follow, but it's not clear if any of the troop contributing countries have either the political will or the resources to actually fight m23 or even rwanda in congo.

congo is due to hold presidential and parliamentary elections at the end of this year. the conflict in the eastern provinces may prevent polling. meanwhile, congo's opposition says that there are already massive irregularities with the voter registration process. malcolm webb for "inside story." ,♪ laura: let's bring in our guests now. in the eastern congolese city of goma, reagan miviri, conflict analyst at ebuteli, a congolese research institute. in johannesburg, stephanie wolters, a senior research fellow specializing in the great lakes region at the south african institute of international affairs. and in kinshasa, angele dikongue-atangana, the u.n. refugee agency representative in drc. a very warm welcome to all of you. reagan, let's go to you first, you are there in goma. the latest reports are that m23

is advancing on that regional capital city. what's the situation? guest: in goma, there is the fear that m23 can take the city. but this has been ongoing for the last four weeks now. there is this fear, but also there is an economic crisis, because all the gates to the city are closed, at that outside and the west side, and the south side in akivu, and then rwanda. goma looks to be in a place where they don't have a lot of access to goods, and that is affecting the situation in the city. people have a lot of anxiety and fear. and the situation in sakey,

which is very close to goma, there is still ongoing fighting there. people fear for their lives and for their economy. laura: is there the belief in goma that m23 will overrun the city? guest: i am not sure that they have interest in that city, but they are enclosing on the gates around the city. they have put the government in position that they have to negotiate to save the situation in the city, which is one of the biggest cities in eastern congo. laura: tell me what exactly people are fearing. our very -- are they fearing m23 themselves, are they fearing the fighting more so? guest: i think people in other words, when it comes to combating m23, everyone is

bloo blaming m23 for the situat. the narrative that exists is that it is a war of aggression by rwanda and m23. and then one of the solutions to make sure that the congolese army is winning this fight. people are not really accepting these negotiation talks, as well as the government has been saying that they will not negotiate. they ask for some prerequisites like withdrawal, that m23 should withdraw from all of the controlled areas and have a cease fire, but since then everything is failing. the cease-fire has failed.

and in the coming days, i am not sure that m23 will withdraw from other areas. it is still a challenge in the crisis is still going on. laura: will certainly look more at these failed efforts to stop the fighting a little later in the program. angele, i want to focus on gomer -- on goma in this particular area. it is a city of one million people. the gates are closed to the city, the roads are being cut off. what's your concern for the people there? guest: unhcr is concerned by the tone of the conflict. this conflict which has resumed for the past year, nearing the 28th of march when there was a fierce resumption of conflict, there have been more than

800,000 newly displaced persons. these are persons who are literally destitute. they are living nowhere. they lack basic needs, including drinkable water, food, shelter, everything. and they are truly at risk of their life because some of them are staying near the highways, risking to be killed by the cars that are in traffic, and exposed to the natural elements. these are made up mostly by women and children who are completely living, not living a normal life, with no dignity, no safety at all. this is just a situation that has been ongoing for too long. we need it to cease.

our goal is that inasmuch as we would like to continue to assist these persons with basic shelter and basic amenities every day, we literally actually do not have access to most of them due to ongoing conflict. laura: that is what i especially wanted to ask, angele, we are hearing that aid agencies are already overwhelmed by the numbers of people who are needing aid. many of these agencies operate out of goma, as original capital. if the roads are blocked to and from goma, how can they then access anybody? guest: precisely what i was saying, we already are not able to access the people by road because it has literally been, all the zones have been grabbed, especially the neutral zone's.

and even we were still accessing them by air until not too long ago. also, the u.n. helicopter was fired at, thankfully, with little damage, but indeed that also signaled another step of the conflict whereby the helicopters of the humanitarians are no longer spared. so we are reaching really a turning point whereby we called to the security council, who was just here last week, to say, we need humanity to resolve for lasting peace, to prevail in goma, in eastern diasi, in the southern region, because that is really what would be beneficial for humanity. laura: stephanie, it seems like a dire situation is about to get very much worse.

why is m23 advancing at a time when the congolese army has just been boosted by east african forces? you've got kenyan troops specifically brought in to fight m23 rebels and yet don't seem to have made any difference? guest: one of the things we have seen this time around and remember the last m23 crisis was just as bad, in 2012, what the u.n. has acknowledged is that m23 is stronger than it's ever been before. we have the head of the u.n. peacekeeping mission in the drc saying that it is almost operating like a conventional army. the support that is being provided by rwanda is substantial. we have known for many years that the congolese army itself is a very weak army. it's facing, of course, a number of different armed groups and newly deployed kenyan forces are the newly deployed kenyan forces are only one of the troop -contributing countries. i think it is unrealistic to expect them to push back the m23 on their own.

of course, they are working with the u.n. and with the force intervention brigade. but one of the criticisms of the kenyan forces and of the east african community forces that they are in fact creating buffer zones between the congolese army and m23, which are effectively allowing the m23 to continue to gain territory. laura: that is very interesting. let's take a step back from this for a moment and look at who m23 are. as you said, they were around in 2012, but they were disarmed 10 years ago. why have they resurfaced? why have they come back so strong? guest: i think the real reason is why has rwanda chosen to reactivate m23? m23 is a group of congolese fighters. they themselves will say that this is a domestic agenda, that they are not backed by rwanda and that there are aspects of the peace agreement that were

signed in 2013 that have not been met. they also have concerns about the congolese tutsi community. but the reality is that m23 is strong and it was reactivated in 2021 viral warning rwanda because of regional development. you had uganda and drc agreeing on a road construction project that reached down towards the rwanda border. this was considered a threat by rwanda. we also had the entry into the drc shortly thereafter in march 2022 drc into the east african of the drc into the east african community, a community that rwanda has been part of for many years, and we also had the deployment to eastern congo. of ugandan troops as part of an operation to go after the allied democratic forces. so a number of regional development that, in many people's views, threatened rwanda's hegemonic standing in the region. and rwanda has responded by by essentially supporting the m23 and relaunching this offensive which is now closing on to 18 months. stephanie: very interesting

indeed. reagan, when we talk about this eastern africa enforce coming in , not only talking about canyon, we talked about ugandan forces, angolan forces now saying they're going to come in, south sudan forces, burundian forces. it's an awful lot of countries coming into this region. what do you think of that? what are people in goma think of all these other nationalities coming in to join this fight? guest: i think at the beginning there was some hope. but that hope has disappeared, because now we know that the original force is not here to fight, and they made that clear, that they are not here to fight against m23, well that is what the congolese government is asking for. it is the reason why that you can see even diplomatic initiatives are failing, because

everyone is asking for something that the other one cannot give. the congolese government is asking for the regional forces to come and fight on their side against m23 and against rwanda. and kenya is not ready to do that. burundi is not ready to do that. uganda is not ready to do that. so, that has made this initiative to be something that will not have any result. because if they are here to just administrate the buffer zones, it means that will be helping m23. that is what people think here in goma. the solution is a bit difficult to get as people ask for different things. and right now, when we saw this delegation from the u.n., they asked exactly that the

government should think about negotiating with m23. well, the government is not ready for that. also, we are in an electoral process. the government is not ready for that, as a big part of the population is against any negotiation with m23. we did some research here in drc, and more than 70% of congolese don't think that it is a good idea to have this negotiation, because this has been going on for so long, and m23 has been partly involved in different peace talks and this did not resolve the situation,

and did not prevent the current situation from happening again. laura: so many failed peace initiatives in the past. angele, the real tragedy here is that this is a region that is so rich in natural resources, resources that the people there should be benefiting from. guest: yes, indeed. a total paradox. i say this has been going on for two long. decades of unrest, of m aiming, of killing. it is believed that 10 million to 12 million persons have perished in this long conflict and senseless violence. more than -- around 5.8 million persons are displaced. literally not living in normal life. for us, we call for a stop.

how many more killed and more maimed and more displaced would the humanity wait for before it can signal the end to this senseless violence? laura: angele, can i just asking a question, you have mentioned humanity a number of times now. who are you actually referring to when you say "humanity" i refer to congo itself, i refer to the neighbors, i refer to the security council, the international community as it was just here and precisely its role is to foresee or to preserve international peace and security. the conflict here, we know it is very complex. it's all about the country itself, the stakeholders inside, the stakeholders around eight, and the stakeholders further afield. so that is why i call

"humanity," because i believe that for this country to possibly find a solution, it takes about a global resolution starting with the country itself, the neighbors, and those further, notably the security council. laura: let's talk about the security council. they have just been to visit the region and they called for global resolution. but no one is willing to sit down. what are your thoughts on that? guest: gary different actors who should be involved in the political solution. from my perspective, i think what we need is a dialogue at a regional level. we need dialogue between uganda, rwanda, burundi and the drc, the four core great lakes countries who have been part of the conflict the last three decades. you have seen persistent interference by the neighbors in eastern congo for variety of reasons -- economic, political, to some extent security.

the brunt of the suffering that is happening is happening in the eastern congo. it is civilians in the eastern drc who are living the consequences of these regional tensions, of these regional rivalries and of these unresolved political issues. we need to have a dialogue at a political level. we also need rwanda at some point to acknowledge that it is working with m23. crisis is becoming worse. we saw this weekend the un security council recognizing for the first time as a body, rwanda's role in supporting m23. that is certainly a step in the right direction, we have seen bilateral actors do that in the past. but what we have not seen is any kind of mention of unitive or coercive efforts or measures that might lead rwanda to actually withdraw support from m23, which is something that we did have in 2012 and certainly contributed to resolving that question. so we have two different issues here -- we have the acute crisis

right now with m23, and then we have the long-standing drivers of conflict in the great lakes region, which means that for the last 30 years, eastern congo has the scene of the ongoing conflict. laura: and the pressure from rwanda can come from the international community at large. reagan, president tshisikedi is sitting 2000 miles away from the violence. how engaged is he? how much of a priority is this for him to sort out? guest: we can say that right now the main priority is how does this work out on the ground? i think that politically, yes, every politician is thinking about the war in north li kivu, but the strategies so far are not working. there is this state which is still going on -- there is still

a state of siege which is still going on in north kivu, but it did not bear fruit. there results of the cooperation between the army and uganda that have no result in all the other regional forces coming in, without a lot of results. the government is doing statements on the involvement of rwanda, which is factual, but beyond that, there are things that need to be done by the congolese government. everyone should have their own responsibilities. the international community, as we said, should have responsibility. the original stakeholders -- yes, we have had fruitful regional dialogue, i second that and it is really important -- but also the congolese

government should try to resolve the problems of the army. stephanie: i just want to move on for the moment because we are running out of time and there is an area have not talked about, and that is the more than 100 armed groups fighting in this region. one that correspondent malcolm webb mentioned. the allied democratic forces. we saw recently very brutal attacks by them. stephanie, how have they become so strong and why are they operating in this region? guest: they have been there for many, many years. they were there even before the war that overthrew mobutu. but largely they became a threat to the population in the area around butambu in the last 10 years. there are many different theories about why and how the adf have become so strong. we don't know as much about that movement as we need to know. we do know that they declared allegiance with isil and that isil has provided them with some

support, but not very much. fundamentally, they are able to live off of informal taxation networks, smuggling and economic activities in areas that they control. and certainly, that would seem to be there objective. it's not necessarily conquering territory, but controlling the area that they are currently in. uganda has argued that they are a threat to the ugandan government. i think potentially that that is an exaggerated assertion because the adf really has not been able to launch any attack on a ugandan territory for 10 years. we did see some bombings late last year. we don't know to what extent really that adf was operationally involved in that. but certainly prior to that and still today, the adf is a greater threat to congolese citizens again than they are to ugandan citizens. and we have seen this joint operation between the congolese army and the ugandan army, which , as reagan said, has not yet borne much fruit. stephanie: santana, --

angele, the norwegian refugee council again and again ranked drc as the world's most under -addressed refugee crisis. would you agree with that? guest: yes, especially with regards to internationally displaced persons. we have close to 6 million persons who are internally displaced. and we do have about one million congolese who have sought asylum in neighboring countries. their dream is to go back to their areas of origin and at long last, possibly live a normal life. this might only become possible once the -- has been silenced, once peace, lasting peace would have prevailed. that is why we call and they call, on behalf of all of the suffering and displaced persons, for lasting peace to prevail. it is more than time that the

world, the stakeholders would agree that this is what is needed in the best interest of everyone, including the suffering souls out there, and indeed, the stakeholders. laura: ok. on that note, we will leave it there. many thanks to our guests, reagan miviri, stephanie wolters, and angele dikongue-atangana. and thank you, too, very much for watching. you can see the program again, anytime, by visiting our website, aljazeera.com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook.com/ajinside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. our handle is @ajinsidestory. from me, laura kyle, and the whole team here in doha, it's bye, for now. ♪ ♪owñl■x■x yo,

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