♪ tom: violent protests in if he appears in her original. plants integrate local forces into the national army have sparked a backlash. the government says the change is essential for national unity. so why is there such opposition and does it risk instability? this is "inside story." ♪ hello and welcome to the program. i'm tom mcrae.

protests have been held for days in amhara against government. -- against government plans to merge the regions forces into the national army and police. he has yet to recover from the war in its tigray region that ended last year. thousands of people were killed in a conflict marked by widespread human rights abuses. forces from amhara fought against tigrayan rebels alongside the national army. but since their two year war ended, leaders in amhara have accused the government of ignoring violence against ethnic amharas in the neighboring oromiya region. they believe that if amhara's forces are absorbed into army, their communities will be left open to more attacks. we will be talking to our guests about the wider implications of all of this and. just a moment, but first, finton monaghan reports on days of violence and protests against the government's plans. reporter: plans but if's government to unify the national

military and police have sparked a major backlash. protests have been held in the amhara region. many people want to ensure forces there stay under local control. outbreaks of violence have been reported and restrictions imposed in some cities and . >> the ethiopian government insists there will not be any kind of compromise in terms of ending the special forces in which the amhara regions as well as other regions have benefited from in the past. we have said it is against the constitution of the country, and they will fight them and put them under their if european forces as the national force. there doesn't seem to be any -- part them under the ethiopian forces as a national force. there doesn't seem to be any compromise. reporter: the government plan will apply to regions that use their own languages and have their own fighting and law enforcement groups. but many in amhara accused the federal government of ignoring attacks on ethnic amharas living in the neighboring oromiya region. they say losing local control forces will leave them unable to protect themselves. prime minister abiy ahmed says he's determined to see the plan

through, and what he calls "appropriate law enforcement measures" to make it happen. the tensions are growing and many fear confrontation may prove difficult to avoid. finton monaghan, al jazeera. ♪ tom: let's bring in our guests now. in addis ababa is kemal hashi mohamoud, member of the ethiopian parliament. in harrisonburg, virginia, is etana dinka, assistant professor of african history at james madison university. he specializes in political history of ethiopia and africa. also in addis ababa is dessalegn chanie, senior member of the national movement of amhara, the main opposition party in the ethiopian parliament. a warm welcome to all of you. thank you very much to be an inside story today. dessalegn, if i can begin with you, can you just explain how large these protests have come, and i guess the anger that has filled them up to this point?

guest: thank you very much for having me. the protests were very large and they and come past almost every corner of the amhara region. people are demanding the federal government reversed the decision to dismantle the amhara special forces, because currently, the amhara region is faced with a lot of security threats. especially from the grand people's liberation front because over the past few years, there were three rounds of aggressions conducted by the tigrayan people's liberation front on the amhara and afar region. so unless the tplf is disarmed

and its soldiers are demobilized, it creates a security risk and a security threat for the him her region. that is what our people are opposing the decision to dismantle it. because it is untimely. and because there was no appropriate consultation and discussion with the concerned stakeholders. tom: ok. kemal, when the prime minister made this announcement, was there any expectation that there would be a backlash like we've seen over the last five or six days? guest: thanks. in terms of expectations, whenever you implement any plan, there is a chance that things might happen differently. we know there has been a lot of negative reactions in the media, especially people who are out of the division.

they always come against any plan coming from the government. even if the government changes the key to heaven, there are always people outside their who will be against them. but to be honest, in terms of government expectations, i would say this was a long-awaited solution for ethiopia. reintegrating the security forces from ethiopia and especially from the amhara region. we are stronger when you have one strong national army which is going to be under one chain of command. so in terms of expectations, i would say there is a lot of positive expectations. it was a demand from the community. something you do for the sake of the people. positive expectation. i would say that there are

people who think it is a very noble idea, of having a very strong, one army. i think there are more positive expectations. tom: ok. etana, if i can bring you in here, how worried are you? how concerned are you about what you have seen over the last week or so? you have got both sides at the moment, refusing really to take a backward step or compromise in any way. so what happens from here, do you think? guest: it is worrisome. but it is important to look into some of the merits on both sides first, because this conflict goes much beyond what both sides want to say in public, at least at this time. when addis ababa went to war with tigray, under the

leadership of abiy ahmed who built a regional coalition which even goes beyond the border of ethiopia, the regional special unit were key allies in invading or fighting against every trio. when addis ababa wanted to make peace with tigray, at least there were some concessions. amhara forces went deeply angry . and the amhara forces, particularly the national movement rising in the amhara region in recent years are moving very fast and claiming a number of progress. but the problem is the claims coming from the amhara nationalists in the region seems to be unclear in many ways, particularly over the last several months. there have been voices putting claim of power in addis ababa.

addis ababa itself claims that the amhara forces want to overthrow them using valid methods. for this, it has closed the main highways leading to addis ababa claiming that the amhara forces are sending forces underground to overthrow addis ababa. if you look at these claims, the claim of addis ababa on the other hand is that it wants to restore peace in the country. it wants to disarm every region. but the main intention behind disarming the regional forces, whether it is amhara, oromiya, or other regions, is to consolidate power in addis ababa. tom: dessalegn, what is your response to that? guest: etana, he is stating amhara demands. our people are clearly demanding that also in principle, we

support international, unified defense force, a national unified army. we feel that this is a precursor, and attempt to give back -- for the tigrayan administration. our people are demanding that we should have a security guarantee. we should have a security guarantee so that the tigrayan forces will not attack us if what time. as for the pretoria agreement, it was agreed that the tigrayan fighters would be disarmed and demobilized. but there is no evidence that disarmament has been done or any demobilization. it is a question of disarming and dismantling the amhara special forces. it is like leaving our people without any security arrangement or security mechanism against the tigrayans.

but also within the region, within the amhara region, for example, one town was battled 10 consecutive times. there is no security apparatus that was active in responding. so our demand is clear. it's not to overthrow the government, but should be able to get a security arrangement that can protect our people. tom: the main argument seems to be that it will leave the region exposed to attacks by neighboring areas, including the tplf. wouldn't a more unified national army the able to better defend against those attacks? guest: over the past few years, for example in the past 25 years, the ethiopian national defense force was dominated by the tplf. a majority of the national

leadership was dominated by tplf. during that time, the defense force has never given effective security for our people. the prosperity party also doubled to buy forces. we believe the national security structures are unfairly represented and improperly reformed. it is very difficult for us to consider them as a truly national defense force. so in the short-term, at least, we need to regain amhara special forces who have defended our region from the tplf aggression. but also they have effectively kept -- in the region. tom: kemal, i want to bring you back here. one of the arguments is that the amhara forces have been more effective against the tplf,

rather than the government forces that have been fighting alongside them. what is your respect? that the government forces have been -- what is your response to that, that the government forces have been ineffective in fighting the tplf? guest: thank you. i would like to say something. the whole point of reintegrating the national security forces. [indiscernible] the idea of canceling the special forces in the amhara region. the national army is dominated by oromos. well, let's be clear. the reintegration of the special forces is for ethiopia. let's not say that it is her

amhara only. i'm sure that there are antigovernment people who want to twist this agenda. they have been in the current army -- they don't represent any person. they fight the idea of having a national army which protects the country and the constitution. [indiscernible] i worry because there will not be safety to the american. the government is saying that if they want to be in the national

defense force, let them join. they are already admitting a number of the army. those who will be reintegrated and they are ready to be in the national defense force, they will not be thrown away. so this is very good. when it comes to the last question of the i'm her special forces contributing, they need to contribute in the fight against tplf. the lesson forget that people had to come to the middle of the region, it was all the nations in the country joining together to make sure the tplf goes back to the tigray region and the war ended. so i don't think it is fair to let up your nations and nationalities who fought for the sovereignty of this country against tplf, to say that it was

only that on her forces really -- the amhara forces really who helped the federal government meet tplf. tom: ok. i want to bring etanna back in. prime minister abiy ahmed has said they will not be any type of compromise here. he said he will take appropriate law enforcement measures and vowed to press ahead, and i quote, "even if the price has to be. ." do you think if you. at this point in time, the government, is prepared to turn this exploit into a larger fight? guest: since he came to office in april 2018, prime minister abiy ahmed's drive is largely about centralization and centralization of power, not within his party, but in his own hands. this trend is growing from time to time throughout ethiopian history since the empire was

founded, since it was founded as an empire by the close of the 19th century. despite regime changes, this issue of centralization lingers on in ethiopia and it is a larger part of problems in the country. so the attempt of abiy ahmed to centralize power by undercutting regional forces puts him in confrontation with tigray and leads to major war. it put him in confrontation with oromo forces, and now oromiya is in another round of war. they put him against a number of regional forces including the gambler and benishangul-gumuz. now it is amhara. so the price that abiy ahmed claims, it drags the country to another round of violence. but the point has been made here, even if abiy ahmed's government is not committed to disarm other regional units, there are enough reasons in

place to disarm h amhara forces. amhara forces have been accused by humanitarian organizations for atrocities they committed in take, in oromiya and benishangul and within their own region. it was previously mentioned about the problem in the city of atayi. that problem was caused by amhara forces, including the special unit. amhara regional forces were accused of committing crimes against the -- and the benishangul in the region. [crosstalk] tom: hold on a second, dessalegn. etana, just finish this point, and then we will move on. guest: let me finish this point. so the recent united states annual report on human rights council. amhara regional forces for atrocities that they committed.

so the perspective of addis ababa and international organizations, there are enough reasons to disarm amhara regional units. one dangerous point that usually comes with claims for amhara nationalism, like both guests are putting down it now, is the issue of oromos domination within this government. if you can't do their federal offices today in addis ababa, most of them are already taken over by amhara officials. both in the army and in intelligence. [crosstalk] tom: i will give you a chance to respond. guest: despite the fact that the prime minister and his colleagues never claimed to be oromiya both ideologically or by region. they always claimed that they work for oromo. but amhara nationalists always want to make the addis ababa

government in the image of oromo because they want to mobilize their people against the central government in addis ababa, and this is very dangerous, because it is a conflict against all. it's a dangerous precedent. tom: thank you. i want to let dessalegn. respond. number one, the town of ataye was frequently attacked by the oromo liberation army and its cells that are stationed in the oromo station zone of amhara region. number two, regarding the oromo domination, it is clear that during the tplf's domination 90% , of the major key positions in the eighth european national defense force was controlled by the amharas.

what the oromos are doing right now is repeat the mistakes by tplf. controlling the key positions of the ethiopian national defense forces. but let me come to the most important point. the most important point for us is that the amhara region has a security risk. so that our people are demanding that until the current security risks from the oromo liberation army and the tplf are removed, we don't mind about the dismantling or the incidence of other special forces, but for the amhara people, their special forces have been part and parcel of the key security structure. also, i have to mention the fact that the amhara special forces and other special forces are constitutionally --.

because if you see the ethiopian constitution, article 52, it clearly stipulates the fact that regional governments have the power to organize their own police forces that can be able to provide security for their regions. so, the amhara regional police controls the special forces. it is allowed in the constitution. it is legal. but also the most important rationale is that unless there tplf is disarmed and unless the threat from the lola is neutralized, it is very difficult for our people to disband the amhara special forces. that is why the people are resisting. tom: ok. kemal, i want to bring you back

in. how much instability are you willing to risk over this issue? how much more violence can the country put up with? how much more pressure can the prime minister be under before he can come to the negotiating table? guest: his party, the national party that has all nations, we have oromos, amharas, somalis, all nations in the party. it is led by the party, not by one nation. the man representing the amhara national movement will be one of the few parties that have the name of a nation. in our government system, we don't have a single party that is led by the name of a rumor where the government is led by a party to the system. i'll think it's fair to say that oromo is the nation. [indiscernible]

i would rather be happy if he tells us the number of offices led by the oromo, the legislative body, the cities. there is an almost nearly equal division of power. i don't see any dominance. to the question of how far is the government ready? to be honest, i hope -- i can only tell you how far the government will be ready for my understanding. i cannot actually represent the government. but i would say that the government is ready as far as it has implemented. it is a very noble idea. we have recognized every region in ethiopia. it's not special to the amhara region.

[indiscernible] tom: ok. guest: the government should give a lot of care to the people in the amhara region because there is a lot of issues to what has happened in the past. i share that feeling. tom: sorry to interrupt. we only have a minute or so left. etana, i went to finish with you. how will this be resolved? are things going to get worse from here? guest: thank you. one important point is the role of addis ababa. again. the war in two gray, like i said earlier, -- the war in tigray was caused by the interests in addis ababa, primarily the interests of prime minister abiy

ahmed himself. unless there is a constitutional means in place to limit the power of the prime minister and his growing power from time to time, or even if there is a constitutional means to get him out of office, i don't think this problem is going to be resolved immediately. because, since he came to office, he has been opening conflict after conflict in order to consolidate his power. it is trying to set a dangerous precedent of making this conflict like oromo against amhara. the prime minister himself is trying to make this conflict something of oromo against amhara, which is a very dangerous path. let me say one point before i finish. it is a repeated claim from her nationalists about tigray. tigray has already been

disarmed. there is no threat whatsoever for the amhara region from tigray. the african union is already satisfied about discernment in the tigray region. listen to amhara nationalists, especially your guest here. whatever he talks about is not amhara. it is about territorial claims, territorial integrity in benishangul-gumuz. territorial claims in oromiya. it is a major fuel in the ongoing conflict in ethiopia and that is why it is so problematic to resolve it immediately. lauren: i want to bring in dessalegn for one final word. how would you like to finish this question mark guest: that government should at least stop its decision to dismantle the amhara special forces, and there should be consolidation with the upper special forces members,

consultation with the amhara people, and with the ethiopian regions [indiscernible] . even the tigray, the neighboring benishangul-gumuz, what guarantee can you give for neighboring people being invaded by amhara forces on a daily basis? cros[crosstalk] >> suffering from invasion. violence of amhara forces. claims of america government. what kind of guarantee would you give to people under threat from armed amhara groups within the amhara region and beyond the region? tom: we will have to leave it there. i am really sorry, we have run out of time. we appreciate all of your input. thank you to all three of our guests, kemal hashi mohamoud, etana dinka, and dessalegn chanie. thank you very much for being on "inside story" today. and thank you, too, for watching. you can see the program again anytime by visiting our website, aljazeera.com.

and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook.com/ajinside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. our handle is @ajinsidestory. for me, tom mcrae and the whole team here, bye for now. ♪

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