04/17/23 04/17/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> we found out it is not protected in one area, but in the tri-state area. it is happening in other cities around sudan where the armed forces have been in conflict.

amy: nearly civilians have been 100 killed in sudan in heavy fighting between the sudanese military and a rival paramilitary force. could this lead to civil war? we will go to khartoum for the latest. then to a leading ugandan lgbtq activist who is risking his life by traveling to the united states to speak out against a recently passed bill in uganda that criminalizing anyone identifying as lgbtq. >> i would be criminalized. this legislation has derailed the entire livelihood of the lgbtq in uganda. amy: and then, "not too late: changing the climate story from despair to possibility." we will speak to longtime filipino climate campaigner red constantino and the

award-winning writer and activist rebecca solnit. >> the fossil fuel politics that have been so grotesquely corrupt as we have observed the 2010 anniversary of the invasion of iraq by the u.s. government, but also -- you know, we don't just have to change energy systems, we have to change the culture. i think we have to change what we value, how we measure wealth. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. sudan is roiling from a third day of violence that's killed nearly 100 civilians and injured hundreds more since saturday as rival leaders of sudan's military government battle for control of the northeast african nation. there are reports of heavy artillery fire in the capital khartoum, explosions at

khartoum's main airport, and airstrikes on military barracks and bases in cities and regions across sudan. the violence pits two factions of sudan's military establishment against one another. one is led by general abdel fattah al-burhan, who's been the de facto leader of sudan since the overthrow of long-time ruler omar al-bashir in april 2019. the other faction is led by lieutenant general mohamed hamdan, the former commander of the janjaweed militias responsible for murders, rapes and torture in sudan's darfur region. the world food program has halted all operations in sudan after three of its employees were killed and a u.n. humanitarian air service aircraft was damaged at khartoum's main airport. the united nations, african union, in the united states, russia, and china are calling for cease-fire in sudan. the african union's peace and secured to counsel has warned against external interference. the fighting has dashed hopes the survey-led democratically

elected government key demand of protesters who led the mass mobilizations in 2019 that led to the ouster of al-bashir. after headlines, we will go to khartoum for the latest. the u.s. supreme court friday temporarily restored access to the abortion pill mifepristone, but only until wednesday, in order to further review a lower court decision which banned the country's most popular abortion method just one week earlier. meanwhile, "the washington post" reported matthew kacsmaryk, the conservative trump-appointed judge who issued the ban on mifepristone, removed his name as the author of an anti-abortion and anti-trans law review article and did not disclose the article to the senate judiciary committee as he was going through the judicial nomination process. rallies to defend abortion rights took place across united states this weekend. colorado's democratic governor jared polis signed three bills into law protecting access to abortion and gender-affirming

care, upholding what he called colorado's reputation as a beacon of freedom and a beacon of choice. among other things, the measures would shield people who receive, provide or assist in abortions or gender-affirming care from criminal prosecution or lawsuits in other states where they are outlawed. in ukraine, a russian missile attack on a residential neighborhood in the eastern city of sloviansk killed at least 11 people this comes as ukraine friday. says the bloody battles for control of bakhmut has reached unprecedented intensity. in russia, prominent opposition figure vladimir kara-murza has been sentenced to 25 years in prison for treason for condemning vladimir putin's invasion of ukraine. the russian-british former politician helped make the case for western governments to sanction russian officials and said his country was committing war crimes. in a statement last week, kara-murza said -- "i know the day will come when the darkness engulfing our country will clear.

our society will open its eyes and shudder when it realizes what crimes were committed in its name." meanwhile, the brazilian president luiz inácio lula da silva said he is working on forming a group of leaders that "prefer to talk about peace rather than war" in hopes of ending the conflict through diplomatic means. >> president putin does not take the initiative to stop. the linsky does not take the initiative to stop. europe and the united states contribute to the continuation of this war. i think we need to sit at a table and say that is enough, let's start talking, because war will never bring any benefit to humanity. amy: president lula, who was speaking from abu dhabi, said he had discussed joint mediation efforts with the united arab emirates, as well as china,

which he visited last week. in china, lula also focused on rebuilding brazil's diplomatic relationship with beijing and agreed to expand cooperation on trade, technology, and other areas. in india, two high-profile politicians were shot and killed on live television saturday while in police custody in the northern city of prayagraj. atiq ahmed, an organized crime leader who also served in india's parliament, was shot in the head, as was his brother ashraf ahmed, a former legislator in uttar pradesh state. at the time of the murders, the brothers were being escorted in handcuffs to a hospital for a medical checkup. the assassins were swiftly arrested by police. >> according to primary information, three men came posing as media personnel and started firing. three people have been arrested and they are being interrogated. the brothers died in this incident. amy: both victims were from india's muslim minority. one of the assassins was recorded chanting a slogan

popularized by hindu nationalists in anti-muslim campaigns. french president emmanuel macron signed into law a hotly contested retirement overhaul, which raises the retirement age from 62 to 64 years and extends the years of work required to receive a full pension to 43 years. the constitutional council on friday ruled in favor of the measure after macron and his party had to ram it through by executive action given its widespread unpopularity, including among lawmakers. protests continue as union leaders seek to ramp up the pressure on macron. >> for three months, there have been extremely important strikes, demonstrations, and our determination is not we can. this will relaunch the mobilization this evening, for the first time since the end of the second world war, unions join all of place to massively demonstrate on may 1 two when the withdrawal of this reform. amy: in japan, members of the g7 vowed to speed up the phase-out

of fossil fuels and the transition to renewable energy, aiming to reach net-zero emissions by 2050. by boosting solar power and offshore wind capacity. but the group of ministers could not collectively agree to a 2030 deadline for phasing out coal, a goal pushed by canada and other members. the group also refused to cut off investments in gas. elsewhere in japan, the foreign ministers of g7 nations are convening for three days of meetings to discuss the ukraine war, china, and north korea. protesters gathered near the station in the resort town of karuizawa as officials arrived sunday. >> the objective of the g7 talks only among developed countries in the first place is questionable. i have doubts about the purpose of them to have a meal together and talk about the opinions of poor countries and the countries that are currently at war. amy: world leaders will meet in hiroshima next month for the official g7 summit.

back in the united states in georgia, over 600 prisoners are being transferred from the fulton county jail after the family of a dead prisoner says he was eaten alive by insects and bedbugs in his cell last year. the family of 35-year-old lashawn thompson, who was being held in the jail's psychiatric wing, is demanding a criminal investigation and that the jail be shut down. the u.s. marked another deadly weekend of gun violence. in the small town of dadeville, alabama, a shooter opened fire in a room of teenagers celebrating at a sweet 16 birthday party, killing four people and injuring 28 others. one of the victims was star student athlete phil dowdell, who was remembered by a coach and teacher at his high school. >> great student athlete. not only did he win -- excuse

me. not only did he win the 100, 200 last year, but he set goals to go -- always had a smile on his face. amy: elsewhere, a shooter opened fire on a crowd of hundreds in a louisville, kentucky park, killing two. this came as louisville is still reeling from the mass shooting at a bank last monday that claimed five lives. a shooting in hawaii left two people dead friday. meanwhile, in kansas city, missouri, a black teenager was shot and hospitalized after accidentally ringing the wrong doorbell while trying to pick up his siblings. and in nashville, a seven-months pregnant woman was rushed to the hospital last week where she had an emergency c-section after she was shot by a walgreens employee who said he suspected her of shoplifting. the employee claimed

self-defense even though he followed her into the store's parking lot where he shot her. in indianapolis, top republican hopefuls for the 2024 presidential nomination joined the three-day annual meeting of the national rifle association over the weekend. headlining the event was donald trump, who received a two-minute standing ovation before declaring himself "the most pro-gun, pro-second amendment president" in u.s. history. pres. trump: with me at 1600 pennsylvania avenue, no one will lay a finger on your firearms. this took place for four years when i was your president. i will also create a new tax credit to reimburse any teacher for the full cost of a concealed carry firearm and training from highly qualified experts. amy: and in new jersey, faculty at the state-run rutgers university have suspended their strike and are returning to

classrooms today after reaching tentative deals on pay increases, job security, and union representation. these include a 48% raise for adjunct faculty and a 33% pay raise for graduate workers. the first faculty strike in rutgers' 257-year history was organized by three unions representing over 9000 professors, lecturers, graduate assistants, and researchers. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the united nations, the african union, the united states, russia, and china are all calling for a ceasefire in sudan after fighting between the sudanese military and a rival paramilitary force have left at -- nearly 100 civilians dead since saturday. hundreds of civilians have been injured. the actual death toll is believed to be much higher. the heaviest fighting has been in the capital of khartoum around the republican palace, the army headquarters, and the international airport. the fighting has pitted sudan's military led by general abdel

fattah al-burhan against a powerful paramilitary group called the rapid support forces , or rsf, led by lieutenant general mohamed hamdan. general abdel fattah al-burhan has been the de facto leader of sudan since the overthrow of long-time ruler omar al-bashir in april 2019. mohamed hamdan is a former commander of the janjaweed militias, which was responsible for murders, rapes, and torture in sudan's darfur region. the fighting has dashed hopes of a civilian-led democratically-elected government, a key demand of protesters who led the mass mobilizations four years ago that led to al-bashir's ouster. the fighting stems in part from a dispute over how the paramilitary rapid support forces would be integrated into the sudanese military. the deadly clashes have also impacted humanitarian efforts in sudan. in north darfur, three employees of the world food program were killed, forcing the u.n. agency to temporarily halt all

operations in sudan. in addition, a u.n. humanitarian plane was significantly damaged at sudan's airport in khartoum on sunday. we go now to khartoum, where we are joined by the sudanese activist marine alneel. we welcome you back to democracy now! can you explain what is happening in your city and the capital of sudan, in khartoum? >> good morning. as i'm speaking to you from khartoum, we are hearing airstrikes, hearing different kinds of explosions. we are not aware what they are exactly. what we're seeing in the international media, we're talking about the clashes thing around the military and the presidential palace and other military buildings. these buildings are in the middle of this city, very close by to residential areas. they are our neighborhoods, residents living there, and

these clashes are happening in between these buildings. the civilians are caught in the clashes and being affected and the casualties are probably much higher than reported. people are not able to reach medical attention. many have been shot on their way to hospitals and to get medical attention. the streets are not say. the cease-fire announced yesterday had absolutely no manifestation on the ground. the rapid forces, the u.n., all the parties announcing this cease-fire or the truce that were supposed to provide safety for us are not credible. it was shown to us when 4:00 p.m. came, the time for the truce, the explosions were louder, there were many more gun fires that were heard by the residents of khartoum.

people were frantically trying to warn each other to not believe this cease-fire, cannot go out of their houses but to shelter in place. amy: i am so sorry you are speaking to us under such duress. i wanted to play for you sudan's former prime minister urging a cease-fire. >> i speak to you today as our country faces the danger of separation and i say when a bullet is fired from a weapon come in cannot tell the difference between the attacker and those being attacked. the victims are the sudanese people. my first message is to abdel fattah al-burhan and the leaders of the sudanese military and rapid forces. the exchange of fire must stop. everyone will lose and there's no victory when it is on top of the bodies of our people. amy: he's a former prime minister for very brief period of time.

for people who are not understanding this conflict and what happened after al-bashir was thrown out and air pulled 2019, go back in time and explain how what we're seeing today is unfolding. >> 2019, popular -- ousted president al-bashir. immediately, the military took over and the political powers at the time immediately ended negotiations with the military, causing a lot of frustration among the people who had given their lives to the revolution. negotiations did not meet our demands. we wanted an exit when it comes to the military and wanted an

immediate transition of power to civilian government. however, the negotiations are what let as to this moment and we hear statement such as what we just heard from the farmer prime minister. this is a transitional government that empowered the sudanese armed forces and empowers the rapid support forces. this is what led us to a situation of full-blown conflict. amy: so on sunday, sudan's fighting factions agreed to a three hour humanitarian cause from for clock to 7:00 in the afternoon. to that actually happen? that is simply an indication of what could happen. talk about the different countries that are now weighing in, if that matters. >> the truce did not manifest on the ground at all.

there was continuous airstrikes and gunshots and explosions being heard. we did not think was credible. we did not think it was going to happen. they proved us right, that they are not serious about this truce the same way they're not serious of the well-being of the sudanese people. as for the 4:00 -- the regimes backing the armed forces, which has switched sides for the time being, backed by russia, back to bite you jumped -- backed by egypt, united states, united arab emirates. [indiscernible]

as long as the support is happening, they are now continuing -- we are living under airstrikes come under attack. what matters right now is a cease-fire on the ground. it does not matter if we're talking about whether they are going back to negotiations. i think there's a lot of talk in the media and focus on the framework agreement -- when we hear that on the news, it seems like our lives are irrelevant. what are we focusing on an agreement that led us to the war when what should be the priority is a cease-fire, opening safe routes for people to be able to flee the active conflict zones. what is on paper right now does not matter when we have people under fire. amy: what led to the latest

outbreak of violence? a lot of attacks on military installations, but they are throughout khartoum, so that of course course threatens many civilians. explain who these two forces are. >> the sudanese armed forces and the rapid support forces, also known as the janjaweed. further legitimized by the transitional government. for the sudanese people, what matters is -- this is an accumulation of what has happened during the transitional government starting from the negotiations. accumulation of allowing these forces to remain in power, to remain having arms, and to remain an entity when the people

have been on the ground chanting -- amy: the revolt against al-bashir was largely led by women. so what are you demanding happens right now? >> the demands of all the sudanese people is a cease-fire, opening safe routes, and most importantly, a lesson that we cannot continue to allow the sudanese armed forces to be in the political scene. they need to remove their barricades. we cannot continue to make little of the lives of the sudanese people and the residents of sudan. amy: how is civilian power

achieved in sudan right now, military leader? >> right now, we need a cease-fire before anything else. what is happening on the ground is the sudanese people are the ones leading efforts that could have been expected from a government we had come a government that is interested in the well-being of the people. the civilians are the ones who are rescuing people who are trapped in risky zones. they are the ones -- we are the ones who are creating makeshift wave of receiving and delivering medical attention. we are using our own personal vehicles to transport the injured and those in need of medical attention. we are the ones who are coordinating the effort of how to cope with the situation, how to cope with the power outages, with the water cuts.

it is civilians who have returned to work during this time just for such emergencies such as the water cuts and power outages. we are not receiving any help from the government. we are not receiving statements to clarify what is happening. we are not receiving any help from u.n. entities or international communities. we are on our own helping ourselves and absolutely not paying attention to the statements of the government because they have been proved to be absolutely not credible. amy: marine alneel, we thank you so much for taking this time to speak to us, sudanese activist currently in the city of khartoum. please, stay safe. we will continue to follow the story. next up, we go to a leading ugandan lgbtq activist who risked his life by traveling to

the united states to speak out against a recently passed bill in uganda that criminalizes anyone identifying as lgbtq. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we turn now to uganda where

lawmakers recently passed a sweeping new measure that makes it a crime identify as lgbtq and even allow for the death sentence in certain cases. the bill declares all same-sex conduct as nonconsensual, makes it a crime to "promote homosexuality" and forces all residents in uganda, including family members and doctors, to report anyone who is in a same-sex relationship. you got passed the bill that is now awaiting the signature of uganda's president. last week i spoke to one of the lgbtq activists in uganda, frank mugisha. he was visiting washington, d.c. i asked him to talk about the new legislation. >> the legislation being passed by our parliament that is pending signature of the president is one of the most extreme legislations, anti-gay legislations to be passed in

africa. this legislation would compare andy person -- compel any person who knows in lgbtq percent to report them to the authorities. if i talk to my priest, my priest has to report me to the authorities. any person who seeks treatment from a health practitioner would have to report them to authorities. this law further would criminalize any landlord provides housing of an lgbtq person. this law would outlaw the work i am doing of speaking out for lgbtq persons but also criminalize anything i post on my social media that advocates or promotes the human rights of lgbtq persons.

this interview that i'm having now, if i had it in uganda, the studio, the entity, myself would be criminalized. this legislation -- of an lgbtq person in uganda. amy: where does the death penalty fit into this, frank mugisha? >> first of all, it is important to note that the initial text of the bill did not have the death penalty. to show you how extreme the members of the ugandan parliament are, the death penalty was introduced during the debate. the death penalty would criminalize any persons engaged in sexual acts with a minor or if someone is in authority, but

let us not confuse the death penalty for only punishing people -- pedophiles, those who abuse children. the death penalty would criminalize any person who is a serial offender. it means any person who breaks the law more than once would be criminalized. if a landlord rents out there premises to person it was known or perceived to be lgbtq and they are convicted under this law more than once, they are a serial offender. if any lgbtq person who is living their life in uganda breaks the law more than once, speaking out, that would be defined as -- lgbtq, that would

be two consenting adults, as long as you're convicted more than once, then you become a serial offender and you could be executed. amy: what about two young people, two minors? >> that is interesting. this law, the ugandan parliament is saying is to protect children. this law would criminalize young queer persons, young lgbtq persons. i'm saying young lgbtq persons who are under the age of 18, to three years in prison if they identify as lgbtq. previously, we have seen young people, if they identify as lgbtq, they will be suspended or expelled from school. right now this law proposes that they should go to prison for three years.

and three years in uganda for a child, that is the maximum penalty under the children's act. amy: now, already there is a ban on gay sex. is that right, frank? >> there is a law that criminalizes same-sex acts to life in prison. most of the african countries have the same laws that were unfortunately introduced by the british. amy: where is all of this coming from? talk about the trajectory of this increasing targeting of -- oppression of the lgbtq community in uganda. >> the oppression we are seeing now in uganda is not ugandan at all. the hatred, the radicalization of the ugandan population is a

fearful stuff the ugandan society has always lived with homosexual persons, with lgbtq persons in societies. they were never killed. they were never arrested. the homophobia and transphobia we are seeing towards queer and trans persons in uganda is from the west. it is mostly from extreme american evangelicals. just last week, we had a market evangelicals in uganda attending a conference that was titled -- but the agenda for this conference was anti-gay and anti-gender. in fact, some of the african members of parliament who

attended this conference are trying to introduce similar legislation in other countries. for example, can you post of a member of parliament who attended this conference in uganda that was heavily supported by an american evangelicals is now trying to introduce a similar legislation in kenya. we are seeing these anti-gay propaganda and anti-gay legislation moving around africa. ghana already has one. we are worried about other countries that could introduce similar legislations. amy: "the washington post" recently ran a post. i want to read from the article. it says in 2020, london-based open democracy found that more

than 20 american religious organizations advocated against lgbtq rights, save abortion, access to cultures section and copperheads of sex education, had spent at least $54 million furthering their agendas in africa since 2007. close to half that figure was spent in a conservative predominantly christian uganda alone. that is the peace from "the washington post." frank, can you talk about this? and specifically about the u.s. evangelical pastor scott lively who told the ugandan parliament that homosexuality is a western-imported disease? >> scott lively is an american evangelical pastor. i'm sure many people in america -- but in uganda, he is famous. when he first traveled to uganda

and publicly held meetings with politicians, ugandan government officials, he told ugandans homosexuality as a western agenda that needs to be fought. he introduced western language that was not ugandan. he introduced language of homosexuals promote homosexuality. he introduced language like homosexuals recruit children into homosexuality. he introduced language homosexuality is a western agenda. this was not ugandan language. this was language that was introduced to ugandans by americans, such as scott lively. we work together with our partners to hold scott lively accountable. in fact, we went to court and

for the first time a judge in massachusetts said persecution of lgbtq persons could amount to crimes against humanity. and for us, we exposed the hatred that scott lively was exporting to uganda. amy: frank mugisha, in 2011, your friend david kato, who is really considered the father of uganda's gay-rights movement, was bludgeoned to death. can you talk about the kind of physical violence people face and if the situation has improved at all? and even though it is over a decade later, my deepest condolences. >> thank you so much. it was very painful but also worrying for many of us when david, my colleague david kato, was murdered. david was murdered at his house. so that petrified me and many

people were worried and scared for their own personal lives but also the safety of the community. right after that, a few years later, the situation improved for the lgbtq community but most recently, we have seen the situation get worse. many lgbtq persons in uganda have been violated. many lgbtq persons in uganda are getting arrested. in prison, blackmail and extortion -- right now what we are seeing is not only on lgbtq persons from law enforcement, but we are seeing harassment from ordinary ugandans. we are worried if this legislation is signed, we will see -- we are seeing

communities, for instance, raiding schools were perceived lgbtq persons work. we are saying events getting raided. we are people getting arrested for getting undressed -- the situation has gotten worse in the past year and recent months. amy: you are here in the united states now lobbying, educating people about what is happening in your country and uganda and your continent africa. i wanted to get your impression of what is happening here. according to the aclu, there have been 419 anti-lgbtq laws introduced in the united states just in this year alone. what message does this send to politicians in uganda and africa? >> first of all, to see the

issue of homophobia, transphobia , the backlash the lgbtq community is facing, it is a global problem. africa should not be seen as the only homophobic place but homophobia is happening increasingly around the world now. the signal that this anti-gay legislation that is being introduced in the united states is not good because most and some of the text that we are seeing in some of the legislation, for example in uganda and other places in africa, similar to text of the legislation being introduced here. but for african politicians, this is good for them. they are using that and saying,

if in developed countries homosexuality is not accepted -- and i've seen videos of misinformation around quoting some of the political leaders saying they don't support homosexuality. so politicians in africa will use anything homophobic and transphobia to try and justify what they're doing. amy: that is frank mugisha, one of the leading lgbtq activists in uganda, executive director of sexual minorities uganda. uganda's parliament passed the anti-lgbtq measure in march by near unanimous vote. the bill is what in the signature of uganda's president. visit democracynow.org to see the full interview with frank mugisha. next up, "not too late: changing the climate story from despair to possibility." stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: the legendary pianist died

on sunday the age of 92. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we look now at the push to address the climate crisis as environment ministers with the g7, group of richest countries seven just finished a meeting of a g7 leaders' summit in hiroshima next month. this is japan's environment minister. >> russia's invasion of ukraine has had a significant negative impact on the global environment and energy issues we are working on. in the cooperation of the g7 that leads the international community is heightening again. amy: ministers agreed to drastically expand offshore wind power by 2030 and accelerate the phase-out of fossil fuels. but they failed to set a timeline to phase out coal-fired power plants, which are seen as key to reaching critical carbon emissions goals set by the paris climate accord.

this comes as a recent study finds current commitments by countries to wind down the use of coal-fired power are likely not enough to meet key targets to stop the planet from warming three degrees celsius by the end of the century unless far more coal plants shut down in the next five years. for more we're joined by two people. writer and activist rebecca solnit come his latest project is a book she co-edited titled "not too late: changing the climate story from despair to possibility." we're also joined by the longtime filipino climate activist were not to red constantino, who has an essay and the book -- in the book about the role he and others played in the paris accord. he's debiting chair of the expert advisory group of the climate vulnerable forum. we welcome you both to democracy now!

rebecca solnit, what gives you hope at this dire time when the planet is reeling from global heating? why do you say "not too late" ? >> a lot of people have given up or think we're supposed to give up because there is nothing we can do. there's so much we can do in this moment and doing it matters for the next 10,000 years of life on earth. we are in the decade of decision . the scientist at the ipcc, the organizers of policy people know what we need to do. when we put this book together, we wanted to build and essentially an on-ramp to activism and engagement, a recognition that we have the solution, and also address the emotional impact. because it is devastating and

deeply wrong but one of our axioms we settled on was despair is an emotion we respect but it is not an analysis. so we bring analysis, emotional support, credible stories like red's of how the ants move elephants in paris. an encouragement for people to participate in deciding the future. there's a real sense, particularly in the united states, the future has already been decided. people in this country loved certainty but so much of it is what we are doing and the present decided now. we wanted to address emotional side of things. and we wanted to encourage full per dissipation, which is what will bring us the best -- i'm sorry, which is what will bring this the best case scenario and steer us away from the worst-case scenarios. amy: renato constantino, also

known as red, your essay in this book "not too late" to say the least is deeply inspiring. we have covered so many u.n. climate summits, beginning each year it seems there is another storm in the philippines. you wrote this piece "how the ants moved the elephants in paris," talking about the 2015 paris climate accord. there are projections that say will be passed 1.5 degrees by 2030. in your essay, any considered 1.5% -- 1.5 degrees unachievable not because of science but because of politics. the representatives of a leading -- of leading ngos view that with disdain and some even lobbied it supporting vulnerable country governments climbing

this was in order to not harm global consensus. and yet talk about the story of 2015 paris agreement and how you and other activists succeeded in setting a limit, whether or not it is being respected. >> thank you first of all for having me on the program. yes, completely it was with great happiness that i accepted the invitation to contribute to this book because we believe very strongly, very deeply that it is not only not too late but it is also urgent that we turn the narratives and stories about the climate crisis into one of possibility rather than the very luxury that no one can afford, especially vulnerable people. despair.

it is too expensive because your counsel to lean back in launchers, thinking doom is around the corner rather than understand we are already facing collapse. at the same time as refacing resurgence, again, new waves of anger and hope and celebration that we can turn things around and that when people start working with one another in small countries, band with other small countries, the ants really can with elephants. paris, of course, was about 1.5. there are scientific projections that we may breach this rush holt by 2030. but there also a lot of scientific studies that continue to come out saying that we might reach it, we might also be able to rein back down. there would be a lot of hard

work ahead but hard work, difficulty, does not mean as others have said, does not mean inevitable. it means it is possible and we must chase it. just like in paris. 1.5 was considered romantic, ultimately doomed target. and the small nations and other social movements have said this is not a game. our boundaries are not found by the politics of those who refuse to let go of their own economic status and lifestyles. our politics is bound by what our conception is of survival. that will always drive in insurgency across talks. while they may get bogged down, there so many instances in the past that show the status quo can be overturned and will be overturned if we only bite down

on her mouthpiece so to speak and fight the good fight. without any guarantees, except that we will fight harder and stronger and smarter as we become wiser and as we grow in terms of the public's participation. amy: while you are in washington, d.c., from the philippines dealing with the imf, and international monetary fund? >> the imf is a critical institution. the institution's need to play a far more relevant role because they were set up ostensibly to manage a global crisis. they have neglected climate change for so long and still think the solutions today are reforms that might actually

perpetuate the same order. however, things are really changing rapidly because they see the proposals from the past will not work simply because it is a reinvention of tools and measures that have brought this crisis in the first place. they're confirming the fact that the world economy needs to transform rapidly but also that the big countries, especially the rich countries, need to play fair, stop cheating, and to start taking action in a far greater way even as the responsibility lies beyond simple domestic emissions reductions. they also need to play a bigger role in terms of allowing vulnerable countries to transition faster and achieve per spirit he. survival is not enough. we need to thrive as well. the imf certainly has a role to

play here in terms of debt relief and ensuring there is a universal surveillance of the transition risks and physical climate risks that every economy is facing today in order to trigger a revaluation of access from fossil fuels to infrastructure to investment strategies to build resilience. the entire economics and ways of measuring development will have to be changed in a comprehensive way. we have to keep moving knowing when we do the inches, leaps in terms of miles become possible as well. amy: rebecca solnit, say climate deniers are not really the main problem. of course, it seems like there are many more in the united

states and other places. so talk about what is the problem and a framework for change. >> the good news is there has been a lot of surveys recently that show globally and nationally in the u.s. the majority of the people take climate very seriously, they want to see action, they want to see action, etc. the problem we face isn't really an environment a problem, it is not a problem of physics. we have the solutions. it is a political problem. we need civil society and a climate movement to become more powerful than the vested interest, the stagnation of the status quo to push for the swift transition that is not impossible but will be difficult, will require kind of radical shift in our priorities, huge investment on profound transformation ultimately for the better. and so it is really not about

the minority of climate deniers. people in this country think we need to be evangelists and convert our enemies. what we really need to do is rally our friends. if we can get enough participation -- and we learned this from history, from the civil rights movement, the women's suffrage movement, etc. we need a critical moment to overcome those vested interests, that stagnation, that in comprehensive by the gerund talk was he that runs this country and to do what needs to be done. as someone i keep saying difficult is not possible, we put this together partly because we are nice ladies and we don't want people to feel worse than they should about the situation but also as a kind of enlistment manual and a toolkit to send people into action to understand what we can do, how to do it, respect and admire the people

doing it already, so many of whom are in this book are extraordinary voices, and to do this thing because as i said before, this is a decade of decision and we need as many people as possible and engaged as fully as possible, constructively. amy: when you look at something like biden signing off on the willow project in northern alaska and yet also pushing solar and wind and being seen as a major climate change president, how do reconcile these two? >> there are two things worth saying about that. one is it feels like obama is all of the above and i feel like it is talking -- 70 sang, i am drinking strychnine but also carry dues and the carriages is not going to undo the strychnine. you have to stop drinking the poison. you have to stop the fossil fuel expansion. we already have more fossil fuel sites being exploited than the

climate can tolerate. the other thing about it, last night i was with antonio you hostile who i know has been on the show often, contributor to this book and longtime friend of mine. despite will come the fossil fuel industry is essentially in decline. it is weak and fragile in many ways. we can defeat it. it again, we have to be more powerful than the status quo. that is entirely possible but it does require profound engagement, expansion of what has been a growing climate movement, growing intersectionality, growing strategy, growing intelligence about what the m pressure points are. so i don't read justice and other organizations have filed lawsuits against willow. it is not guaranteed to happen but we also need administrations that don't even try to do that to say, yeah, this was in the pipeline, the permits were in

place but we are going to do a 180 and cancel things like that. we need to be on emergency footing rather than business as usual. they did not feel the pressure to disrupt it. we need to be that pressure to disrupt. amy: we just have 30 seconds, but what do you hope to accomplish with this book that yuko edited? >> i wanted to get everyone including newcomers and young people encouragement to look at the possibilities to know there is a lot we can do come to know the future is not yet written. we are writing with what we do or fail to do in the present and to do everything they can. amy: rebecca solnit, thank you for being with us, co-editor with thelma young lutunatabua. the new book, "not too late: changing the climate story from despair to possibility." also thank you to renato "red"

constantino, longtime filipino climate activist with an essay featured in the book. that does it for our show. democracy now! is currently accepting applications for a digital fellow. learn more and apply at democracynow.org. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

[crowd clapping] crowd: nina, nina! nina, nina! nina, nina! nina! eric campbell: nina baginskaya is a 74-year-old great-grandmother who's become the icon of a revolution. maria pugachjova: i've never been scared since the 9th of