04/18/23 04/18/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> was not fit for a diseased animal. i have photographs and i want you to take a look at this of the cell he was held in. this is inexcusable and deplorable. amy: several top officials at the fulton county jail in georgia have resigned after a

black man held in the jail's psychiatric wing was "eaten alive" by insects and bedbugs in his cell. we will look at the tragic death of 35-year-old lashawn thompson. we will speak to his brother and sister, as well as the family's attorney. in a global tv/radio/news exclusive. then as a new study find poverty is the fourth leading cause of death in the united states, we will speak the pulitzer prize winning writer and professor matthew desmond about his new book "poverty, by america." >> this book trust to answer two big questions, weiser so much poverty in america and what can we do to eliminate it? it argues many of us, those of us that are secure, housed, lucky, we exploit the poor, segregate the poor, and we

support a nation that gives most of the families that need at the least. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. sudan's warring factions said they have agreed to a 24 hour cease-fire after four days of violence pledge the northeast african nation into chaos. a united nations envoy says the civilian death toll in sudan has reached at least 185, with more than 1800 people wounded since fighting between rival wings of the military junta erupted saturday. the true toll is likely far higher, with emergency crews unable to retrieve bodies from the streets of khartoum where tanks, fighter jets, and artillery fire struck densely populated urban areas. in a widely shared social media post, architect and khartoum

resident tagreed abdin said civilians were being killed in monday the crossfire and that the fighting could benefit islamist groups in sudan. >> i only fear is that comeback to power on the back of whoever wins this idiocy. this ridiculous battle that has -- we have nothing to do with this. i don't have a preference. you know, it's like our new normal now. amy: more than a dozen hospitals have been shut down across sudan, some of them after sustaining bomb damage. humanitarian aid groups have suspended their operations. u.s. embassy officials have been sheltering in place after a u.s. diplomatic convoy came under attack monday. meanwhile, the european union ambassador to sudan reports he was assaulted in his residence in khartoum. u.n. secretary-general antónio

guterres strongly condemned the fighting and appealed to the warring factions to cease hostilities and begin a dialogue to resolve the crisis. in kansas city, missouri, a white 84-year-old homeowner was charged with two felonies monday after he shot and critically injured a black teenager who rang his doorbell by mistake. police say the homeowner andrew lester did not exchange words with ralph yarl last thursday before opening fire through a locked glass door with a 32-caliber revolver, hitting the 16-year-old twice, in the head and chest. yarl underwent surgery to remove bullet fragments and was released from the hospital on sunday to recover at home. lester walked free for several days before his arrest. clay county prosecutor zachary thompson announced the charges on monday before taking questions from reporters. >> was there a racial component

to this case? >> is the prosecutor i can tell you there was a racial component to the case. amy: the 16-year-old ralph jarl had simply rung the doorbell of the wrong address to pick up his two younger brothers. a grand jury in akron, ohio, has decided not to bring criminal charges against eight police officers who fatally shot jayland walker, a 25-year-old black man, after a traffic stop last june. body camera video shows the officers chasing walker after he got out of his car and was running away unarmed. an autopsy later revealed walker was struck by 46 police bullets as he fled. lawyers for the walker family say that after officers shot jayland, they handcuffed him before administering first aid. elizabeth paige white is an attorney for the walker family. >> i don't care what he did, but let's be clear.

when jayland was shot, he was running away, he was unarmed. those are two things that we know. and for any state official to stand up there and justify what was done to jayland, shame on you. shame on each and every one of you. what we saw happen this week in the grand jury was a miscarriage of justice. amy: in indianapolis, two police officers have been indicted over the killing of herman whitfield nearly a year ago. whitfield was an award-winning african american piano virtuoso who would have turned last 40 october. last april, his parents called 911 to ask for help as their son experienced a mental health crisis in their home. officers responded with deadly force, pinning herman whitfield to the ground, cuffing him, tasering him, and continuing to press their weight into him even though he was crying out he couldn't breathe. the city of indianapolis and its police department fought for

months to block a judge's order that raw videos of whitfield's killing be made public. last friday, officers steven sanchez and adam ahmad pleaded not guilty to charges of manslaughter, reckless homicide, and battery. they were released on $15,000 bond. a trial for both officers is scheduled to begin in june. police in new mexico have released body camera footage showing how officers shot and killed a farmington resident in his own home on april 5. the video shows officers repeatedly knocking on a door before realizing they had come to the wrong address. seconds later, 52-year-old robert dotson appears at his front door holding what appears to be a handgun. three officers immediately opened fire, killing him. the officers then exchanged gunfire with dotson's wife who

cried out for help. the officers, who have not been publicly attend a fight, had been placed on paid leave pending a state police best occasion. florida is on the verge of joining alabama as the only states in the country where a divided jury can impose the death penalty. florida governor ron desantis is expected to sign legislation this week that would allow defendants to be sentenced to death even if as many as four members of a 12 person jury opposed the decision. momentum for the legislation grew after the parkland school shooter was sentenced to life in prison because the jury's decision on the death penalty was not unanimous. in other florida news, governor desantis is escalating his attacks on disney as part of ongoing dispute that began when the company criticized florida's "don't say gay" law. on monday, desantis threatened to build a prison on state-owned land next to disney world. >> what should we do with this

land? so, you know, ok, people have said, maybe have -- maybe create a state park, maybe trying to do more amusement parks, someone even said maybe you need another state prison. who knows? amy: republican house speaker kevin mccarthy has proposed increasing the debt ceiling for one-year in exchange for sweeping budget cuts that would likely result in less federal money for housing, education, health care, and environment. mccarthy also pushed for tougher work requirements for recipients of snap, the supplemental nutrition assistance program, and to expand domestic mining and fossil fuel production. mccarthy outlined his plan in a speech at the new york stock exchange on wall street. >> before we borrow another dine , we owe it to our children to save money everywhere. our proposal exhibit wasteful washington spending and executive overreach in all forms. amy: the white house slammed

speaker mccarthy's proposal warning it would impose devastating cuts on families and take health care and food assistance away from millions of people. the republican-led house judiciary committee led by jim jordan held a field hearing in new york city where republicans repeatedly attacked manhattan district attorney alvin bragg, claiming the d.a. pushed "pro-crime, anti-victim policies." the hearing came just weeks after bragg filed criminal charges against donald trump. the focus of the hearing was on what republicans described as violent crime in new york even though it's one of the safest large cities in the united states. "the new york daily news" reports the homicide rate in ohio, the home state of committee chair jim jordan, is 73% higher than the homicide rate in manhattan. this is committee chair jim jordan. >> emblematic of a city that has lost its way when

it comes to fighting crime and upholding the law. amy: democratic congressmember jerry nadler blasted jim jordan for holding the hearing in new york and for attacking d.a. alvin bragg. >> the chairman is doing the bidding of donald trump. to intimidate and deter the duly elected district attorney of manhattan from doing the work is constituents elected him to do. i have demanded access to the inner workings of an ongoing criminal case, information to which they know they are not entitled. they have perpetuated the anti-semitic and racist tropes mr. trump has directed at both the prosecutor and the judge in this case. they're using their public offices and the resources of this committee to protect her political patriot donald trump -- they're political patriot donald trump and his abusive use of power. amy: in other congressional news, new york republican george santos has announced he will

seek reelection for congress in 2024 despite growing calls for him to resign over his extensive lies about his background during his successful 2022 campaign. the fbi has arrested two new york residence for allegedly running a covert police station in chinatown. u.s. attorney announced the indictment monday saying the site was operated by china's ministry of public security to target pro-democracy activists and other chinese dissidents in the u.s. >> on at least one occasion, an official with the chinese national police directed one of the defendants, a u.s. citizen who worked at the secret police station, to help locate a pro-democracy activist of chinese descent living in california. in other words, the chinese national police appeared to have been using the station to track a u.s. resident on u.s. soil. amy: china's foreign ministry

does night the charges and accused u.s. of groundless accusations. a russian judge in moscow has denied bail to detain wall street journal reporter who was arrested on espionage charges march 29. during his first court appearance, he was held in a glass metal enclosure and seen smiling at times but marks from his handcuffs could be seen on his wrist. if convicted, he faces 20 years -- up to 20 years in prison. u.s. ambassador to russia recently visited him in his moscow jail, reporting he is in good health and remains strong. and in new jersey, climate activist held a non-violent civil disobedience protest monday at the construction site of a fracked gas expansion project. if completed, the project would expand the flow of methane through kinder morgan's aging tennessee gas pipeline. among those detained by police at monday's protest was paula

rowe given, a longtime environmentalist and peace activist. >> governor murphy, you promised -- you promised in our mental. you promised clean air, clean water. and what do you do? you allow this lousy compressor station to be built, the pipelines. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. when we come back, a democracy now! exclusive. we go to atlanta were top officials at the fulton county jail have resigned and its growing outrage over the death of a man held in the jail's psychiatric wing. lashawn thompson's family said he was eaten alive by insects and bedbugs in his cell. we will be joined by the lawyer and the sister and brother of the dead man. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: odetta performing "sometimes i feel like a motherless child." this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in new york, joined by democracy now!'s juan gonzález in chicago. hi, juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of oulisteners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: we begin today's show in atlanta, georgia, where over 600 prisoners are being transferred from the fulton county jail after the family of a black prisoner said he was "eaten alive" by insects and bedbugs in his cell there last year. the family of 35-year-old lashawn thompson, who was being held in the jail's psychiatric wing, is demanding a criminal investigation and that the jail be shut down. on monday, several of the jail's executive staff resigned,

including the chief jailer, assistant chief jailer, and members of the criminal investigative division. fulton county sheriff pat labat said in a statement, "it's clear to me that it's time, past time, to clean house." in an earlier statement, the sheriff said -- "it is fair to say this is one of the many cases that illustrate the desperate need for expanded and better mental health services." this thursday, the family and community members will rally outside the jail as awareness about the conditions there and this case grow. photos shared with democracy now! by the lawyer for lashawn thompson show filthy conditions in what is believed to thompson's cell where he was found dead on september 19 last year. the fulton county medical examiner's autopsy report said thompson's cell was in

"extremely poor condition with insect infection and other filthiness around him" and had a "severe bedbug infestation." the county's autopsy noted, "the body is infested with an enormous number of small insects that are 2 mm in length." thompson's cause of death is listed as undetermined. perhaps most shocking is a graphic image the family released that shows thompson's face at the time of his death. his family has asked that the world see it, with a warning to our viewers, we are showing it briefly now. lashawn thompson's death came after he had been held for three months on a misdemeanor charge and was put in the jail's psychiatric wing after officials determined he was mentally ill. the corrections officer who

wrote the incident report about his death noted "i've communicated with mental health staff about the living conditions of inmate thompson on previous dates." for more we're joined in a global tv, radio, podcast broadcast exclusive by three guests. in atlanta, michael harper is a lawyer representing the lashawn thompson family. in florida, we are joined by lashawn's sister shenita thompson and lashawn's brother brad mccrae is in montgomery, alabama. we welcome all of you to democracy now! brad, i want to start with you. you are lashawn's brother. we really weighed whether to show that photograph that your family wants the world to see of your brothers had. i am wondering if you can talk about why you felt it was critical that the world see it. >> first off, i want to say good

morning and thank you for having me on. as far as the photo, my personal feelings and emotion about the photos was emmett till. i thought about emmett till. it broke my heart to see those photos. we wanted the world to see it so the world could feel it and the world could wake up and see what is going on out here and get behind it and make a change. make a change. we want the world to wake up and make a change. juan: i would like to ask shenita thompson, the sister of lashawn thompson, when you first heard of what had happened to her brother and your reaction when you realized the condition he was in? >> when i first found out what happened to my brother, it broke my heart. just to see the conditions he was in and especially the photos

to see the bugs on his face, his eyes, his nose -- it really, really broke my heart to see him like that. juan: also, i would like to ask brad mccrae, that fact that sheriff of fulton county is now saying he vows to clean house. what is your reaction to the actions of law enforcement subsequent to her brother's death? >> well, i want to thank the sheriff for trying to clean house and into everything that he feels like he could do. i wish it was done earlier. i wish it would have been done so my brother might still be here, but i want to thank the

sheriff for what he is trying to do. he is trying to make it right on his behalf, but we have a long way to go. i hope to keep going forward. amy: i want to point out, brad, for our listeners, you are wearing a t-shirt that says "in loving memory" and there's a beautiful picture of your brother lashawn on your shirt. were you -- and i also want to ask shenita -- if you are both in communication with him, if you are able -- if you are able to talk to him when he was in the jail? did he talk to you about the infestation, the conditions of the jail? >> i brother had previously said -- we did not even know he was in jail. amy: so the horror of this. a report found at least 10

people died at the fulton county jail last year and said "the fulton county gel has been understaffed and mismanaged for decades leading to multiple lawsuits and dissent decrease but the problems have been particularly acute in recent months as fulton county sheriff labat has failed to maintain even existing staff. on september 22, he stated he lost more staff than he was able to hire and as of october 10, there were at least 155 staff vacancies." the a cell you has ordered a report on how to quickly depopulate the jail that said "fulton county jail failure to cover people's ability to pay when setting bail is a significant factor in a number of people held in jail and found at least 12% of the people were held there due to inability to pay bail meaning a wealthier individual with the same charges and bail amount would be released. some were held for over two years. which brings us to michael harper come the attorney for

lashawn's family. michael, can you talk about why we're just learning about this case now? and the significance, the impact it has had, removing 600 prisoners? talk about what you understand happened step how lashawn was in that mental health unit of the jail, if you can call it that, what the autopsy means, the photographs that you have that are so horrific. >> good morning. let me start with the photographs. there was some talk from the sheriff about the authenticity of those photographs and where they came from. those horrific photographs came directly from the fulton county medical examiner's jail get investigation it was provided to the family from the county medical office. they are the exact photos of the cell that lashawn thompson was housed in when he died.

they are horrible. but what happened here, as you noted, the jail new lashawn thompson had into health issues in june 2022. they put him in a psychiatric wing of the jail and neglected him. he was there for three months. there are reports in the incident report from the death that the officers were aware that he was declining, he was in a filthy cell, they complained to their superiors and nothing happened. he was there until he died and his body was found infested with those horrible ted budd bytes and lice and insects. it is beyond tragic what happened to him. he is mentally ill. he was not able, we believe, to contact his family. he was unable to speak for himself. they held him there. it was their responsibility to make sure he was safe and make

sure his cell was clean. remember, lashawn thompson was a pretrial detainee. he had not been convicted of a crime. he was being held there until he got his day in court. they had an obligation to make sure he was safe. the new information about the sheriff cleaning house and moving inmates, that is a wonderful thing to happen but lashawn thompson died in september of last year. the sheriff was well aware of this case then. we believe the measures he is taken now are solely based on the international outrage of lashawn thompson's death. we appreciate any change to keep inmates safe, but it should have happened before lashawn thompson died and certainly after he died before the media attention. juan: michael harper, you have represented others who died in the same facility, including

william barnett, a man charged with stealing a lawnmower. and also antonio may in 2018 who was beaten to death by six detention officers. talk about these two related cases and what it indicates about how law enforcement has been dealing with this jail now for years. >> there is certainly a systemic issue of abuse and neglect at the fulton county jail here in atlanta. antonio may's case was horrific. this is a man who also went into the jail with mental health issues. they were well aware. he was in a holding cell. he first came in to be processed come he began removing his clothing and he allegedly would not put his clothing back on when instructed to by the detention officers. for that small infraction, the

dark team, the specialized team at the jail, direct action response team, went into his holding cell, tased him nine times in a minute and a half, beat him, put him in a restraint chair, took him to a shower area to wash the pepper spray off his face, and his heart went out. they literally watched him tied down to a restraint chair. the evidence showed not just the restraints on the chair, but they used additional restraints against jail policy. and while he was restrained in that manner, his heart went out in front of them and a died -- and he died in front of them in restraints. william barnett, another tragic case, went to the jail on a misdemeanor. the jail was aware he had a chemical imbalance. he and low protested -- he had

low potassium. they sent him to the hospital. when he came back to the jail, the instructions from the hospital was for the jail to monitor william barnett, check his potassium level to make sure he did not decline. they did nothing. they never gave him more potassium, never monitor him, and he was found unresponsive, went into cardiac arrest in his cell and died. these are inexcusable, horrific deaths. let me also say this about this sheriff wanting a new job. we applaud that and we agree, but these cases are about neglect. a new jail is not going to stop neglectful detention officers for not -- for not caring for those who are least served. amy: we want to and what the family of sean.

brad, you are in montgomery in a studio in alabama, historic place where rosa parks led the montgomery bus boycott. you are not far from brian stevenson's lynching museum. shenita, i what to begin with your description of your brother. you are in winter haven, florida. isn't that where lashawn grew up? can you talk about lashawn and also was he able to get help for his schizophrenia? >> yes he gripped in winter haven, florida. he went to winterhaven high school. he loved music. he loved listening to his headphones. he loved music and stuff. get help for his mental health? yes, he was but you know mental

health is hard. it is just hard. amy: brad, how do you want us to remember your brother lashawn? >> yes, ma'am. i what the world to remember him as i do come as a loving person, a playful person. he loved music. he loved to cook. i what the world to remember him as their cousin, their brother, their uncle or whatever the case may be because it could happen to their families just like it happened two hours. amy: michael harper, there's going to be a major protest outside the fulton gel on thursday. can you talk about what you are demanding and if you have filed suit on behalf of lashawn? >> we have not filed any civil suit yet. right now you're just trying to raise awareness and bring

attention to this horrific case. the rally will be to call for a criminal investigation into the death of lashawn thompson. it is fine to clean house and to make changes, but someone needs to be held responsible for the horrible neglect that lashawn thompson underwent. we want a criminal investigation into this case. we will also demand the jail is closed down in the fulton county builds a new jail. we are calling the department of justice in washington to launch a civil rights vest occasion into the jail as well. there will be other community leaders, naacp of georgia, a lot of community leaders. this is our jail and fulton county and we have to make change. amy: we want to thank you all so much for being with us. michael harper, the lawyer for lashawn thompson's family. and lashawn thompson's family, sister shenita thompson speaking

to us from winterhaven, florida, and his brother brad, speaking to us from montgomery, alabama. our condolences to you both. next up, as a new study finds poverty is the fourth leading cause of death in the united states, we speak to the pulitzer prize-winning writer matthew desmond, his new book "poverty, by america." stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "say a little prayer" by gregg brown. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. republican house speaker kevin mccarthy has proposed increasing the debt ceiling for a year in exchange for sweeping budget cuts that would likely result in less federal money for housing,

education, health care, and the environment. mccarthy also pushed for tougher work requirements for recipients of snap, the supplemental nutrition assistance program. and to expand domestic mining and fossil fuel production. mccarthy outlined his plan in a speech at the new york stock exchange on wall street. >> for we borrow another dime, we owe it to our children to save money everywhere. our proposal will examine wasteful washington spending and executive overreach in all forms. and because the white house slammed speaker mccarthy's proposal warning it would impose devastating cuts on families and take health care and food assistance away from millions of people. this comes as a new study in the journal of the american medical association published on monday found poverty is the fourth leading cause of death in the

united states -- just behind heart disease, cancer, and smoking. the study linked 183,000 deaths in the united states in 2019 directly to poverty. that's an average 500 deaths from poverty every day. well, today, we the spend the rest of the hour looking at how there can be so much poverty in the richest country in the world. we are joined by matthew desmond, author of the new book "poverty, by america." it's matthew desmond's first book since he won the pulitzer prize for his groundbreaking 2013 book "evicted: poverty and profit in the american city." evicted, something he knew well as his family was evicted. matthew desmond is a sociologist at princeton university where he is the director of the eviction lab.

professor desmond, matthew, thank you so much for joining us. this book is a bombshell. it is epic. the title of your book "poverty, by america" doesn't talk about how is it possible the richest country in the world can have so much poverty, but you say that it is because of its wealth there are so many poor. lay out the scope of the problem and why you took this on. >> because there is so much poverty in this land of dollars. if you look at the official poverty line, 38 million of us are living below it. that means if the american port founded a country, it would be bigger than australia. the poverty line is incredibly low. one entry folks in america live in homes bringing in $55,000 or less. many artificially poor, but what you call it?

there is an incredible amount of unnecessary scarcity in this land of abundance. this book is about why and about how we can finally abolish it. juan: if you could summarize some of the main reasons why, especially given how other wealthy countries don't have nearly the level of poverty that the united states does? >> it is an point. our child poverty rate is double that of south korea, germany -- many of our peer nations. in a nutshell, there is so much poverty in america, not in spite of are well but because of it, some lives are made small so that others may grow. many of us, those of us who have found some privilege and prosperity in america, we contribute to this. we consume the cheap goods and services the working poor produce. we benefit when the stock market

goes up because labor costs are pushed down. many of us get tax perks from the government, which is an enormous part of government spending. we protect those tax breaks which starves anti-poverty programs. we continue to be segregationists in america, building walls around affluent neighborhoods and concentrating poverty. many of us are connected to the problem and the solution. juan: we often hear conservatives in the united states talk about the welfare state. you make the point our country actually is subsidizing the affluent. give some specifics about how that happens. >> every year we spent about $1.8 trillion on tax breaks. that is about double what we spend on the military. it is a colossal sum. many of us who receive those tax breaks have a hard time seeing those as the same thing is food

stamps or housing assistance. at both housing assistance and the mortgage interest adduction, they cost the government money, both put money in a family's pocket, and they both increase the deficit. if you add up to the tax perks going to families and all that means tested programs, the poorest families come the social insurance programs -- basically everything the government does for its people, you learn every year families in the bottom 20% of the income distribution receive about 25,000 delishia from the government but every year families in the top 20% of income distribution, the richest families, receive about $36,000 from the government. that is lobster 40% difference. that is crazy to me. our country does a much better job helping folks that have plenty already then it does eliminate and fighting poverty. amy: this is an absolutely critical figured that you are saying, matthew desmond, because so often argument about --

against helping the poor, why should they get free money when no one else does? you're pointing out, actually, it is the opposite. wealthier people get more money from the government downpourer people do. i would like you to continue on that point and talk about why and fact already in this country there are millions of dollars available to people who are in the lowest economic bracket that they can't or don't take advantage of. explain what are the obstacles in the way. >> one obstacle is we do a very bad job connecting families to programs that they need and deserve. sometimes we literally don't spend the money on fighting poverty. if you look at a program like the to assistance come the needy families program, this is cash welfare. for every dollar budgeted, only $.22 ends up in the family's pocket. what is going on here?

states have a lot of discretion about how to spend the money and they spend it in creative ways. some states use the dollars for marriage and initiatives, things that have nothing to do with alleviating poverty. many states don't even spend the money. last time i checked, tennessee was on $700 million of unspent welfare dollars. this is one way that money doesn't reach the families that need it the most. another way is many families are just leaving a lot of money on the table. one in five folks that are poorly paid workers that could receive something called earned income tax credit, they don't take it. most elderly americans i could receive food stamps tote take it. if you add that up, you learn every year over $140 billion of unspent aid is left on the

table. this is not a picture of welfare dependency. this is welfare avoidance. we as a nation need to do a much better job connecting families to those programs. juan: what did the crisis of the pandemic teach us about the ability of government to make significant didn't in poverty -- dent in poverty and that of course was the worst of the pandemic was over, we have seen now i take of those policies. >> exactly. there are two resounding lessons from the pandemic tecumseh poverty alleviation. one, organizing for social movements pushed for bold relief for the government and they won. that relief came. the second big lesson is that relief makes the world of difference. during the pandemic, we rolled out something called extended child tax credit which is basically a subsidy to low and moderate income families with kids. that simple program cut child

poverty by 46% in six months in six months. it was the most historic thing we have done to fight party since the war on poverty increased. another thing we did was we rolled up emergency rental really. we helped renters that had fallen behind because they lost their jobs during the pandemic. that initiative made evictions fall to record lows. we have never seen evictions this low on record. they stayed low for months and months and months even after the federal moratorium on evictions was lifted. these programs were transformative. you are right, juan, they are expiring. frankly, i want to live in a country where commas should've been terrified of taking those benefits away. i want to live in a country were more of us said, no, i want this to be the new normal.

amy: professor matthew desmond, just talked about evictions. you won the pulitzer prize for your book "evicted." talk about your personal express and what eviction means. >> i grew up in a little town in northern arizona, a railroad town. money was tight. when my dad lost a job as a minister, we lost our home and i helped my parents move into a small rental unit. i think that experience worked its way inside of me, probably provoked me to study evictions later on in life. i moved to milwaukee into a mobile home park and a rooming house in inner-city milwaukee and followed families getting evicted. what i saw was eviction causes tremendous loss. families lose their homes but they also lose their staff. kids lose their school -- they lose their stuff. kids lose their school. many landlords see that and say,

no thanks. we push those families into worse housing and push those families into high crime neighborhoods. eviction causes job loss. if any of you listening or watching today have been evicted, you know why that is. it is such a consuming, stressful event. it can cause you to lose your footing in the labor market. there is the eviction mark on your mental health. when you add that up, i think we have to conclude evictions, which used to be rare this country, which used to draw crowds, evictions are not just a condition of poverty, they are making things worse. they are leaving a deep and jagged scar on the next generation. juan: i 1 -- get the political impacts of this debate, donald trump -- i wanted to ask you about the political impacts of this debate. donald trump talking about the wider appeal.

places like west virginia, kentucky, mississippi. i am wondering your sense of this account about why trump appeals to poor white americans. >> i think it is hard to answer that question without recognizing the racial element of the appeal. when trump started his presidential run, famously, he was disparaging mexicans and immigrants. there is very little evidence immigrants dragged down wages or arc intruding to poverty in america -- or are contriving to poverty in america but it has a deep residence with a lot of americans who are white and struggling economic areas. there is a connection on the ground that i think is often overlooked in the politics wch is on basic issues of economic fairness and justice, there is a lot less polarization than we often see in washington.

most americans what a higher minimum wage. most americans think the rich are not paying their fair share of taxes. most americans, democrat and republican, believe that poverty is caused by unfair circumstances. the electeds are very polarized, but on the ground i think there are a lot of americans that want more opportunity, less poverty, and they what less inequality on both sides of the aisle. amy: professor desmond, i wanted to ask you about your comment that many well-off americans "are unwitting enemies of the poor." this goes to the issue of solutions. explain how. >> so if we just look at tax breaks, for example. many of us who are homeowners who receive something called a mortgage interested action, we deduct every year at tax time.

if you look at that deduction and you look at everything that homeowner subsidies amount to, in 2020 when we as a nation spit $193 billion on those benefits and only $53 billion on home assistance to the needy. it is a victim balance. most of those property owner deductions went to families with six-figure incomes. we also have to face the fact most white americans today are homeowners. they benefit from one of the sweetest cutouts in the tax code the most black and latinx families are not because of the -- it is really hard to think of social policy that does a better job of amplifying racial and economic inequalities than that system does. many of us are protected in those tax breaks. this book is a call to reevaluate our values. it is not a call for redistribution i don't think,

but rebalancing our safety net. i want a country that does a lot more to fight poverty than it does to guard fortunes. juan: could you talk about the changing nature of work in the job market over the years and how that has affected definitions or how people see themselves as poor or not? you said your grandparents had careers but this generation has gigs. how does that relate to poverty? >> it does you part of the story. after world war ii, the job market really delivered for many americans for decades. in the 1970's, one in three of us for long to a union. worker pay was climbing. wages increased by 2% every year. if you had a job for ford, you worked for ford and you could advance and you got benefits and

pride. but as workers started to lose power, as unions started to be destroyed and dismantled, our jobs got a lot worse. if you look at the real pay, the inflation-adjusted wages for men without college degrees today, it is lower than it was 50 years ago. benefits have gone away. many of us who were working for google or -- those companies don't sign our checks. we are independent contractors without a lot of benefits and without a lot of room for advancement. the deterioration of the american job means that the government has to do more to fight poverty. when the war on poverty was launched, the job market was strong and was a one-two punch. government investments along with the job market that was delivering. that massively cut poverty in america post of today, the job market is not pulling its weight

and this is one of the reasons we don't just a deeper investments, we need different ones. one of those investments is finding ways to empower more american workers. amy: you have called for poverty abolition. this goes right to your previous point. lay out the ways poverty can be abolished. again, that point you made earlier that the pandemic taught us so much, for example, having cutting and have child poverty within six months? and then the u.s. congress votes to do away with that program, throwing millions more children into poverty? >> right, exactly. a study came out a few years ago that showed the top 1% cut if they paid the taxes they owed, not paid more, just what they owed, we as a nation could raise an additional $175 billion. that is more than enough money to reestablish that child tax

credit. that is enough money to double our investment in affordable housing and still have money left over. that is basically enough money to list everyone under the official poverty line above the line. we have the resources. we know how to do it. when we are met with this kind of question about how could we afford this, how can we afford to cut child party in have her make sure every family in america has a decent, affordable home? i feel like those questions are sinful and dishonest. the interest staring us in the face. we could afford it if the richest among us took less from the government come if we designed a welfare state to do less to subsidize affluence and more to eradicate poverty. how do we get there? we deeper investments in the issue, which is funded by tax credit enforcement. we could go deeper. we need different programs, programs that attack the exportation of the poor in

deliver market and housing market, especially. finally, our walls have to go. we have to end aggregation in america and strive for broad open prosperity. this sounds like a policy discussion but also a personal commitment. it is not just about voting the right way or signing up to join a social movement. it is about ways we need to interrogate our everyday lives and commit ourselves to divesting from poverty in our consumer choices, neighborhood choices, and all the little boys would go about our lives that unwittingly contribute to this issue. juan: you mentioned the housing market and affordable housing. the reality is that for most americans, their main source of wealth is whatever equity they have in a home they have purchased and pay a mortgage on over the years. but increasingly, we have seen these private equity firms come

in, especially after the housing crash of 2008, and buy up all this housing. so now we have this unusual situation of private equity having an enormous say over affordability in housing in the united states. what can be done about that? >> one thing that can be done is for us to get serious about expanding homeownership opportunity for first-time home owners and working families. last year, 27% of homes sold in america or for under 100 thousand dollars. affordable homes. only 23% of those were financed with a mortgage. the rest were bought up and cashed by landlords. what is going on? the thing that is happening is many banks just are not interested in the small dollar urges. it is not because they are riskier, they're just less profitable. if i am a bank, i have an

incentive to give you mortgage on a $5 million home but not really interested in finding that $75,000 home list this is where the government can step in and help ensure those kind of work it is in a different way to incentivize low income families have the opportunity to step into homeownership. i remember meeting a woman in cleveland a few years ago and she was renting a four bedroom home for $950 a month. she bought that home under conventional mortgage standards, her mortgage payment and standard would be about $570 a month. that is real money. i think that is one way we could step in and make sure those homes go to people and not just private equity. and matthew desmond, you talk about labor unions promoting worker empowerment, which ultimately works to fight

poverty. you say also that poverty is so expensive. you have this beautiful quote of james baldwin come anyone who has ever struggled with poverty as how extremely expensive it is to be poor." put those two together. >> if you look at the financial exploits of the poor, you find every year over draftees pull about $11 billion a year in fees, only 9% of bank customers paid most of those fees. who are those 9%? the poor made to pay for their poverty. if you add that up to the one point $6 billion in check-cashing fees and i was $11 billion in payday loan fees, you learn every single day $61 million in fees are pulled from the pockets of the poor. so when baldwin wrote that, he cannot even imagine these receipts. this is one way we need to address poverty. poverty isn't just the lack of

income, it is the lack of choice. we need to extend the choices folks have in terms of where to work and live and how to access money in credit. amy: the issue of unions fighting poverty? >> unions have an incredibly impressive track record in striving for worker empowerment. the problem in america today is organizing workplace is incredibly difficult. let's make it easier. one idea in the book is something called sectorial bargaining, which is a pretty wonky day but the idea is simple. and started organizing one starbucks and the starbucks or another starbucks, what if everyone in food and beverage in america took a vote and if that cleared 50%, 60%, it would activate the secretary of labor who would form a bargaining panel made up of worker and business representatives could come to an agreement for unions or protective rights that would protect all folks in that industry. every single barista, starbucks.

i think unions and worker power is essential to ending poverty in america. amy: matthew desmond, thank you for being with this and for your book "poverty, by america." [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

♪ ♪ hello and welcome back to nhk "newsline." i'm takao minori in new york. ukrainian president volodymr zelenskyy believes a counteroffensive could turn the tide of the war in his country. russian president vladimir putin wants to determine when that push might come. the two have made rival visits with their troops to shore up morale. zelenskyy headed to a place some have described as post-apocalyptic. he met with soldiers in the city