04/19/23 04/19/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> you are not going to take any responsibility for the indentured servitude and exportation of children happening on your watch? a moment ago you were crowing about the fact that you treated children so well and yet we find tens of thousands of children who are forced to work as slaves because of your policies, and you turn around and blame a prior administration. amy: the biden administration is

facing growing criticism from republican lawmakers, as well as immigrant rights groups, for its failure to prevent a surge of migrant children as young as 12 working in factories across the united states. we will speak to the pulitzer prize winning "new york times" journalist hannah dreier who has revealed at least five health and human services staff members were pushed out by the biden administration after raising concerns about child safety. then we look at a rare victory in the immigrant rights movement. a judge has just ruled longtime organizer jean montrevil will no longer be at risk of deportation to haiti, ending a decades-long saga. plus, we look at the growing controversy around supreme court justice clarence thomas after propublica revealed thomas had failed to disclose his deep ties to right-wing billionaire harlan crow. thomas vacationed on crow's private yacht and jet and even sold property to crow without disclosing it.

>> supreme court justice is don't just -- [indiscernible] students with student loan debt, welfare recipients, and poor people don't have that luxury and they can't afford to buy the justices. amy: we will look at what happened in 1969 when another supreme court justice, abe fortas, was forced to quit for behavior considered less egregious than thomas'. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. fox news has agreed to pay $787.5 million to to many voting systems in the largest settlement in history. the deal was finalized just

hours after a delaware jury was sworn in and as opening statements were expected to begin. dominion had sought $1.6 billion in damages from fox for promoting lies about its voting machines being rigged against trump in the 2020 election. dominion ceo john poulos called the settlement historic. >> throughout this process, we have sought accountability and believed the evidence brought to light through this case underscores the consequences of spreading lies. truthful reporting in the media is essential to our democracy. amy: fox news is not required to apologize or admit they knowingly lie to their viewers as part of the settlement. it means the network's biggest stars and chair of fox corporation rupert murdoch will not have to take the stand. evidence unveiled during the discovery process revealed host laura ingraham, sean hannity, and tucker carlsen knew the election fraud claims were false. fox still faces other lawsuits

over its pro-trump lies including a $2.7 billion defamaon suit fr another election technology company, smartmatic. dominion has also sued other news networks and high-profile trump associates including rudy giuliani, sidney powell, and mypillow ceo mike lindell. a 24 hour cease-fire in sudan has fallen apart as military airstrikes rain down on the main international airport in the fifth day of fighting today while paramilitary shot at the sudanese. at least 185 people have died so far as the u.n. warned it has created a catastrophe. the civilian population has been increasingly cut off from essentials including power, food, and healthcare. this is a sudanese activist and humanitarian worker who fled the capital khartoum. >> no one can buy their daily needs. military clashes continued during the night so it is not recommended to go out by your

needs. it is dark and dangerous because of fighting parties cannot figure out if you're civilian or militant. i believe this is hell for people in sudan. amy: aid workers continue to face violent attacks with reports of sexual assaults. a doctors without borders compound in nyala, the capital of south darfur, was raided by armed men. residents describe the terror and chaos of war as they grapple with dwindling supplies. >> at one point you will find yourself praying to really be saved in the country to be saved and other times you are to lost in what is happening around you, are your friends going to be ok, her neighbors, even people you don't really know but you see around in the streets, you know? amy: president biden signed an executive order tuesday directing almost all federal agencies to implement new measures to make child care and elder care more affordable and accessible. the order is intended to improve care without congressionally-approved

legislation or extra funding after biden failed to deliver on his pledge of universal pre-k and fully covering child care for low-income families. biden blamed republicans for continuing to push cuts for social programs, including as part of the ongoing dispute over the debt ceiling. senate republicans blocked democrats from temporarily replacing senator dianne feinstein, who is recovering from shingles, on the judiciary committee. the prolonged absence of the 89-year-old feinstein, who is retiring at the end of this term, has stalled the confirmation of biden's judicial nominees and prompted some members of her party to call for her resignation. in tunisia, police arrested opposition leader rached ghannouchi and raided the ennahda party's headquarters in the latest crackdown on critics of president kais saied. saied has been accused of carrying out a legislative coup after he dismissed the government, declared rule by decree, and vowed to rewrite tunisia's constitution in 2021.

this is ghannouchi speaking just two days before he was detained. >> tunisia, without another party and without political islam, without the left or any of the components, is a civil war project. it is a crime. therefore, those who welcome this coup cannot be democrats. amy: in other news from tunisia, clashes broke out between mourning protesters and police at the funeral of professional soccer player nizar issaoui, who died last week after setting himself on fire in what has been described as a protest against the police state. prior to his death, issaoui decried the police for accusing him of terrorism after a dispute with a fruit vendor over the price of bananas. in syria, saudi arabia's foreign minister met with syrian president bashar al-assad in damascus in the first high-level saudi visit to syria since the start of the civil war in 2011. this comes as syria's arab neighbors are discussing its possible return to the 22-member arab league and other ways of bringing the war-torn nation out of isolation.

meanwhile, qatar and the united arab emirates are moving forward on restoring their countries' ties with plans to re-open embassies more than two years after the uae, saudi arabia, bahrain, and egypt lifted a blockade on qatar. indonesia's military chief denied claims by the west papua national liberation army that it killed a dozen indonesian soldiers this weekend during a failed operation to rescue a new zealand pilot taken hostage by the pro-independence fighters. indonesia says only one soldier was killed, while four others were missing. the attack has raised fears of a massive retaliation by indonesian forces in west papua, where protests for independence have been met by bloody repression by the indonesian army. the european parliament approved major reforms to strengthen and accelerate the eu's climate goals. this includes a plan to charge polluters on europe's carbon for -- carbon market for all of their emissions and adds

shipping emissions to the market. the change is expected to cut emissions by 62% from 2005 levels by 2030. the eu would also start levying high-carbon imports. this is european parliament president roberta metsola. >> these laws put the price on the carbon would reduce and the most polluting industries will have to increase their emission reduction targets. it will also put a price for non-eu producers providing a level playing field so we will not leave our industry at a disadvantage because of external competitors. amy: germany shut down its last three nuclear reactors saturday after decades of debate and organizing by anti-nuclear activists. this is jürgen trittin, a lawmaker from the green party. >> the introduction of this technology was historical mistake. today we remedy this mistake. amy: the long-anticipated move

came as only a partial victory for environmental activists as europe's largest economy has ramped up its coal production to make up for the loss of nuclear power and the energy crisis spurred by the ukraine war. anti-nuclear activists also noted there is still no definite plan for storing all the highly toxic nuclear waste from germany's decommissioned plants, which must be securely stored underground for one million years. here in new york, holtec international, the owner of the decommissioned indian point nuclear facility, said it has paused plans to dump one million gallons of radioactive water into the hudson river. the plan provoked community outrage from residents and environmentalists. tritium, a byproduct of nuclear fission, cannot be filtered out of water and has been linked to cancer. and in more news from new york, environmental groups are blasting democratic governor kathy hochul over her judicial nominee of caitlin halligan to the new york state court of appeals, the state's highest court.

halligan represented chevron as it pursued racketeering charges against the human rights lawyer steven donziger, who successfully sued chevron on behalf of ecuadorian amazonian indigenous people for massively polluting their ancestral land with oil. in a statement, the grassroots group public power new york said -- "it's time for hochul to pick a side: does she stand with corporate polluters or with environmental justice communities here in new york and across the world?" and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in new york, joined by democracy now!'s juan gonzález in chicago. hi, juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: "the new york times" is reporting the biden administration has repeatedly ignored or missed warnings about a surge of migrant children as young as 12 working in factories across the united states. "the times" reports -- "at least five health and human services staff members filed complaints and said they were pushed out after raising

concerns about child safety." one of the hhs staffers, jallyn sualog, told "the new york times" -- "i feel like short of protesting in the streets, i did everything i could to warn them. they just didn't want to hear it." in february, "the times" published blockbuster report about child labor based on accounts by over 100 unaccompanied migrant children, mostly from central america, who described grueling and often dangerous working conditions, including having to use heavy machinery, being subjected to long hours and late-night shifts at facilities that manufacture products for major brands and retailers such as hearthside food solutions, the makers of cheerios, fruit of the loom, whole foods, target, walmart, j.crew, frito-lay and ben & jerry's. others were forced to work as cleaning staff at hotels, at slaughterhouses, construction sites, car factories owned by general motors and ford -- in serious violation of child labor laws. on tuesday, homeland security

secretary alejandro mayorkas was grilled about the biden administration's response to forced child labor. this is republican senator josh hawley of missouri. >> you're not going to take any responsibility for the indentured servitude and exploitation of children that is happening on your watch? a moment ago you were crowing about the fact you treated children so well and yet we find tens of thousands of children who are forced to work as slaves because of your policies, and you turn around and blame a prior administration. mr. secretary, this is par for the course for you. you do it every time you appear before this committee and before congress. i am sick and tired of it and thousands of children are in physical danger. danger because of what you're doing. you should have resigned long ago. if you cannot change course, should be removed from office. amy: we're joined now by hannah dreier, a pulitzer prize-winning

reporter at "the new york times." her new investigation is headlined "as migrant children were put to work, u.s. ignored warnings." dreier's earlier piece is "alone and exploited, migrant children work brutal jobs across the u.s." hannah dreier, welcome back to democracy now! we had you on for your first blockbuster expose showing children as young as 12 working across the united states. now your reporting the biden administration knew about this, not only knew about this and did not do anything, they actually did do something -- they pushed out those within the administration who were raising alarms. can you talk about what you found? >> it is great to be with you. just as you say, people were punished for bringing this to the attention of their supervisors. people say they were fired, they were demoted.

i spent a year talking to children who came to this country and are working in the most exploitive conditions in factories and slaughterhouses. i found these children in every single state of the country. after that story came out, i began asking how it could have been the biden administration didn't know about this? what i found was actually, they were given evidence, they were given warnings, there was a sign after sign this was happening for two years. the administration did not spring into action until just last month. juan: hannah, i was particularly struck by the information about susan rice, the white house head of domestic policy. and her reaction to the reports that there were problems in terms of how the children were being treated. could you talk about that? because susan rice has been an

every democratic administration over the last 30 years, bill clinton, barack obama, now joe biden. >> susan rice is a usually important figure and she is biden's top point person on immigration. it is not some junior fiber at the white house who maybe got a warning when time and did not get -- susan rice's team was told about this again and again. the kind of evidence are clusters of children found to be working in different parts of the country repeatedly i need very industrial jobs. these are children making car parts. these are children using caustic chemicals and acids at a chicken plan. those messages got to susan rice's level. memos airing concerns about these issues got to susan rice's

level. her team was told, going back to december of 2021, that people were very worried about this. and what the white house has basically said is, well, maybe we saw these signs but we did not put it all together. what the response has been is sort of a lack of curiosity or lack of conscientious thinking to realize if we are seeing kids in all these different places you're doing these jobs, maybe there is a larger trend here, maybe there are thousands of kids out there. juan: they did put it together sufficiently to force out five health and human services staff members. could you talk about some of those staff members and the alarms they raised? >> these are the people who are running the unaccompanied minor program for health and human services. one of the women i spoke with, jallyn sualog, she helped build this program. she started working for the

government in 2010. right when we first started to see these waves of children coming over. she was in charge of this program for years and years, the highest official running the program when biden took over. she says she raised alarms, i'm elsewhere she said something catastrophic is going to happen and pleading for someone to pay attention. when her emails what unanswered, she talked to congress staffers and said again, i am worried about what is happening, these children are in danger. she was pushed out. she was one of five people who i spoke to who filed complaints, who showed me their emails were there saying something really wrong is happening here. they say instead of being listened to, they were demoted and people just did not want to hear the warnings. amy: i want to turn to the white house press secretary who is speaking on tuesday. >> i want to state oh rr is

dedicated -- crackdown on violators and rigorously -- more rigorously prevent sponsors of unaccompanied minors, launching new task force a better shared information. we call on congress to provide the resources this administration has long requested to help crackdown on companies that exploit children for labor. the actions we have taken since february make their we will continue to investigate and hold companies accountable but we also need congress to provide resources we need to enforce and we've been very clear. we have taken actions but we need congress to also give us the resources they need to broaden these actions that they put forward. amy: that is the white house response. if you could respond to that?

particularly, talk about who is responsible for what. we saw this dramatic confrontation between senator holly and all had her mayorkas, head of homeland security. talk about what homeland security is responsible for. he was particularly angry that mayorkas was blaming the trump administration for separating children, what homeland security's response, which age ages is responsible for, and more about these whistleblowers who made clear time and again what was happening and we are not just lost -- not listen to but were pushed out one after another after another. >> in fairness to the biden administration, they have taken rapid action after our first story came out a month ago. the department of labor is ramping up the way they're going to try to go after these companies that exploit my great children. health and human services has taken some steps.

what has been so shocking to me is these steps were not taken earlier. one dynamic that people often point out is a lot of this came in response to the crisis at the border were children were coming in and record numbers when biden took office. a lot of them were languishing in customs and border protection jails because there wasn't enough room in the shelter system to take them in. it was wall-to-wall coverage of children sleeping on the floor, children on those tin blankets, and the admit was getting slammed on wire these kids leg washing in jails, i thought you're going to take care of them? there was all this pressure to move those kids out quickly because it was so visible when they were ending up sleeping on the floors, sleeping in terrible conditions. what happened after that with these kids working was much less visible. nobody is going to go and have a

big newsreel about children who are working in poultry because you cannot get in there. it was a trade-off between is very visible crisis in this hidden crisis where kids are working these terrible jobs and often languishing in bondage. that is part of the dynamic that happens again and again. the agencies that are responsible are the department of labor and health and human services. mayorkas has been getting questioned about this. i think as a proxy for the biden administration. but the agency that is in charge of migrant heaven is health and human services. not like the regular immigration system, children go to this different agency that is supposed to be a child welfare agency. it is health and human services that has been responsible for leasing -- protecting them from

trafficking and ex-wife tatian. juan: that is what i wanted to ask you about, the role of health and human services because obviously, we can understand the pressure the biden administration was under to get children out of the detention facilities but then the responsibility had to fall on the agency that kept seeing one or another individual repeatedly offering to sponsor children, to monitor and check up who -- what these sponsors rexall he doing with the children. so wouldn't that fall largely on health and human services? >> yes, that is health and human services. these staffers who had to try to connect chilled of was sponsors tell me to them it often felt were sides even during child separation under trump. the people who work in this agency are mostly democrats, mostly in the work because they believe migrant children are

important and want to watch out for them. they said they felt this huge pressure to send the kids to have her come people who had already sponsored multiple children. i spoke with one of these workers in texas who said just in two weeks of doing this job for health and human services, she found six cases were children were being sent to children who said they were intending to put the children to work or who had already sponsored other kids who were not the relatives. he flagged the case is one 14 euros was being sent to a nonrelative inside, i worry about this kid, i think this kid is being trafficked, i think this kid will have to pay off some kind of debt. as far as we could tell, nothing happened. i caught up with that kid two years later ensure enough he was put to work, had to drop out of middle school, had to pay his own rent, pay off thousands of dollars in debt and he was completely on his own even though his case had been flagged by a whistleblower. amy: hanna, we just have 30

seconds. what were you most shocked by underreporting the second exposé? >> i could not believe this wasn't flagged earlier. with something this widespread, thousands and thousands of children, you want to believe people at the highest level of government are going to pay attention when they are shown the worst kind of child exploitation. amy: hannah dreier, pulitzer prize-winning reporter at "the new york times." we will link to your new investigation "as migrant children were put to work, u.s. ignored warnings." and your previous peace "alone , and exploited, migrant children work brutal jobs across the u.s." coming up a rare victory in the immigrant rights movement, as a judge rules on temp organizer jean montrevil will no longer be at risk to haiti, ending a decades long saga. stay with us.

back in 30 seconds. ♪♪ [music break] amy: "les amazones" by thomas bangalter. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. in a democracy now! broadcast exclusive, we turn now to a rare victory in immigration court

that unfolded here in new york yesterday in a case we have followed for more than a decade. on tuesday, an immigration judge ruled that jean montrevil, a haitian immigrant and longtime activist, will no longer face deportation after he had been targeted for his activism for years by immigration and customs enforcement. under president trump, jean was deported to haiti in 2018. he was given a second chance in 2021 when virgina governor ralph northam granted him a pardon for two drug convictions that were 30 years old, which ice had used as a pretext to deport him. this gave jean the opportunity to seek to reopen his case and regain his legal immigration status. in a rare move, he was allowed to return to the united states on a 90-day special parole, but the threat of deportation continued to hang over his head until yesterday, when the decades-long saga came to a

close. in a courtroom packed with supporters, the judge told jean, "i want you to know i see the good in you, too." for more, jean montrevil joins us himself, alongside alina das, part of his legal team for jean montrevli and co-director of the immigrant rights clinic at nyu school of law. we welcome you both back to democracy now! jean, we spoke to you in port-au-prince when you were deported to haiti. now as you sit in a new york studio, can you describe what this victory feels like? what it meant to you yesterday? what ashley happened in that courtroom? oaks good morning. thank you. it was huge for me. i was so happy. the feeling of knowing i no longer face deportation and now have an opportunity to sit here with my children. this could have always been me

sitting with my kids. i love my kids, my kids love me. the judge sent a message, you can't silence someone just because they are speaking against the government. i am so happy. we were so happy yesterday. my team met nyu, they did an excellent job. my kids were there. my supporters. we were so happy. unbelievable feeling. juan: could you talk about how important it was for the people to be there in the courtroom to show support, to demonstrate to the judge? how this is part of the strategy of groups like families for freedom and your work in the past with the new sanctuary coalition? >> yes. it was extremely important.

the judge even mentioned that in his decision, how much support that i had in the courtroom. even called at one of my previous supporters who was in the courtroom, and the judge explained the letter moved the judge about me. family for freedom was there. my ex-wife was there. my kids. i had people from other churches there. and the support from the community was largely important. we had two rooms full of people. i think the judge recognized that, how important it was for me to have all of these people who loved me and supported me for the past 20 years. it was a huge victory. i like to thank my legal team

from nyu, alina das and her staff. they did an excellent job. i'm so grateful. amy: jean, let me ask alina das. i think we last had you on when you are about to give birth but you are right there standing with jean. in 2021, jean is allowed back in the united states. he was deported for his immigrant rights activism under trump. there are a couple of threads of legal cases here involving jean. can you lay out these cases? it is amazing it is your students who argued the case yesterday. >> absolutely. thank you, amy. certainly, i know i speak for the entire nyu immigrants rights team, including yolanda and

gabriella who represented jean at the hearing yesterday. we are so honored to be standing in solidarity with him and his incredible family in the church. you are right, there's been so much that has been poured into jean's case. we have been inspired by his incredible voice, leadership through families for freedom and the new sanctuary movement in new york city. it has helped thousands of immigrants. it was an honor for us to step in where we could. when jean was deported in 2018, it was part of a widespread pattern of retaliation by immigrant and customs enforcement against immigrant rights activists. they were targeted, they were silenced through their detention, and some were deported. we knew this was wrong. we joined jean and his church and family and community to file a lawsuit to sue the government, to say it is simply not right against his first amendment rights and due process rights under the constitution to silence him for his activism

with retaliatory deportation. we litigated that for many, many months. thankfully, after president biden came into office, ice was willing to settle the case. returning jean to the united states. i'm trying to write one of many wrongs we have seen under -- across different ministrations. it is thrilling for us to be able to see after the 30-year fight that jean has led that he is been searching for this one fair day in court that we were finally able to be there. we know because jean has taught us that there are many more people who also pays retaliation, pays retaliation to this day, and we hope this is the first of many such victories. juan: could you talk about the role of the drug war and several ministrations now using the criminal legal system the legal

system to deport people from the united states, especially black immigrants and people from the caribbean? >> absolutely. anti-blackness is a core part of the foundations of immigration law will stop there is a very specific reason that immigration law uses the criminal legal system to funnel people into deportation. it basically doubles the unfairness of both assistance. the war on drugs in the 1980's in 1980's particular were wound we saw people facing the harshest penalties like jean for involvement in drug offenses. also than facing the harshest penalties of mandatory detention, mandatory deportation without even being able to explain her case. jean tried to present all of his factors, all of the reasons why he should be able to stay in

this country with his family. but it took him 30 years. a tremendous about of community mobilization. it was the community that make sure this happened. that is part of the legacy of the war on drugs. i think jean's son who testified yesterday said it best when he said this is a double punishment. it is an heavenly unfair for him to have suffered this much, his family to have suffered this much because of the war on drugs after he has already been harshly punished under that system. amy: can you talk about the role of the virginia governor ralph northam in pardoning jean, the significance of that? >> well, jean and i talked about this yesterday at the hearing. jean was in haiti when governor northam gave him the pardon. it was an incredible moment for jean. i think it is a recognition of the importance of second

chances, the importance of redemption. it is a value our justice system has often forgotten. that was a rare moment of victory, something jean and the entire team fought for for many years. it is important to recognize people at all levels of government have a responsibility to exercise their power, to make sure we can find justice where people like jean who have been through so many years of injustice, there's so much that people can do if they're willing to exercise that power for good. juan: jean, now that you finally have gotten this 30-year saga behind you, what are your expectations or hopes for what you expect to do in the future? >> well, i am 54 years old. i am about to start a new life. my family, my sons -- just to be

able to be with my kids. my son josias is in college. my daughter has a husband. i have a sophomore in high school. i want to see my kids' progress and be alongside them. make sure they stay out of trouble. and be a responsible human being. these case -- this case has always been about the separation of families. i did not like the fact there's ago the government used to separate families. now my kids and myself, we do have a bright future ahead of us. i am planning to work with them, to continue to support them. amy: do you see citizenship on

the horizon? >> i'm sorry? amy: do you see citizenship on the horizon? >> well, i think so. last night i got home and i was thinking about it because this has been a question in my mind for seven years, jean, why are you fighting to stay in this country knowing the risks and all they have done to me in what to become a citizen? last night i thought about it, but, you know, i do like the biden administration. right now haiti is in turmoil. it has gotten worse since i left just over a year ago. just in general, joe biden finally recognized that and give the haitians an opportunity to come over here. if you have someone here that

can apply to support you financially, then get approved to come over here and apply for political asylum. mia, myself, to answer your question, i would like to settle myself and this country. i have been here for almost 40 years. this is the only country i know. i don't want to think about going back to haiti, so i probably will have my citizenship -- i have to apply and hopefully i will receive it. amy: jean montrevil, longtime haitian immigrant activist who -- welcome home. alina das, part of his legal team for jean montrevli and co-director of the immigrant rights clinic at nyu school of law. thank you so much for being with us. coming up, the growing controversy around supreme court justice clarence thomas. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "cat's in the cradle" by harry chapin. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. we look now at the growing calls for supreme court justice clarence thomas to step down or be impeached. a second propublica report on his relationship with megadonor harlan crow has revealed in 2014, thomas and his family sold a house and two vacant lots in savannah, georgia, for around $130,000 to crow but never disclosed the sale which appears to be in violation of the 1978 ethics in government act. cnn reports thomas' mother lives in the home owned by kroger it-free but report of the responsible for paying the property taxes and insurance. on sunday, the washington post reported thomas has for years played rental income from nebraska real estate firm that

shut down in 2006. it is also been reported that in 2009, croquet $500,000 to conservative lobbying group founded by thomas park to be what ginni thomas. cnn reports justice commas intends to -- thomas intends to amend, detailing unreported luxury trips harlan crow lavished on thomas over two decades in apparent violation of the law requiring justices and other federal officials to disclose most gifts. thomas frequently vacationed at crow's resort in new york where a painting on the wall depicts clarence thomas sitting with four other men, including harlan crow and leonard leo of the federalist society. thomas never reported any of the free trips as gifts. in addition to being a minute -- major benefactor for thomas and the gop, crow is an avid collector of nazi memorabilia and has a signed copy of mein

kampf, signed by hitler, paintings by hitler, and a garden filled with statues of 20th century did taters. for more, we're joined by justin elliott, reporter for propublica. the follow-up report is headlined "billionaire harlan crow bought property from clarence thomas. the justice didn't disclose the deal." welcome back. your initial report has unleashed an avalanche of reporting and investigations and calls for clearance thomas to be impeached or to step down. he says he's going to amend his disclosure forms. can you talk about the latest findings. >> for both -- harlan thomas and crow put out we are very close friends, these are family trips, use the word hospitality.

we subsequently learned unreported there was a direct business, real estate deal between the two men so actual money flowing from harlan crow to clarence thomas. what we found is around a decade ago, crow bought a house and two vacant lots that were owned by clarence thomas and some of his relatives down in savannah, georgia. as you mentioned, the house that crow bought his after the hobbs where -- houseware thomas' elderly mother lives which puts crow in the extremely unusual position of being the landlord to the mother of a sitting supreme court justice although it is not clear if landlord is the right term because seen in has reported that crow is not charging her rent. they are all kinds of exceedingly unusual financial entanglements between this billionaire political donor and the supreme court justice. juan: justin, what about this

claim they have been longtime friends? what we able to find out about how thomas and harlan crow first met and how their friendship developed? >> i think they are friends, but it turns out that, at least according to crow, they met back in the mid-1990's after thomas was on the court. they weren't college roommates or something like that. apparently, met at a conservative political conference and crow gave an interview to "the dallas morning news" recently in which you said they first met when crow offered thomas a private jet ride on crow's jet from washington, d.c., to dallas and apparently they hit it off on the jet. that is what we know about how it started. juan: from the start, thomas was

accepting in essence undisclosed gives from crow. >> yeah, i personally have never been on a private jet that i've learned a lot about them and crow's current jet, global 5000, if you were to charter one of these you would be paying $15,000 per hour, per flight hour. these are extraordinarily expensive flights. obviously, not exactly a normal situation to offer somebody you just met a private jet ride. again, clarence thomas was a supreme court justice at the time so i think that probably goes along way to explaining why this happened. amy: can you talk about ginni thomas, clarence thomas's wife? the connection here in the financial connections with harlan crow? they getting more than $500,000 lobbying group?

>> one of the really intriguing financial connections here between crow and the thomas family is related to ginni thomas. he came out around a dozen years ago that ginni thomas was running a small tea party group, nonprofit, clinical organization . it came out that none other than harlan crow was pretty much the sole funder of that group that was paying ginni thomas' salary, which i believe was on the order of 200,000 dozier. essentially you that pastor organization, crow's money was ending up in the pocket of the thomas household. following that reporting around a dozen years ago, was another -- a previous round of questions about this but -- and we don't really know what has happened since then.

partly thanks to the supreme court, as you know, the whole regime of disclosure, of political spending and getting into groups has early fallen apart and there is anonymous dark money flowing all over the place so it makes it very difficult as a reporter to figure out where money is flowing and from new. but we're still reporting on all this. juan: justice thomas claimed that crow had no business before the supreme court. for those who do not know -- of our audience who do not know crow, who is he and what would be his interest in being able to have this friendship with thomas? >> crow is a real estate billionaire who was born into a very successful dallas real estate family. it is true crow has not had -- he has not been a litigant in a case for the supreme court. it turns out the supreme court does not take that many cases every year.

a few people and companies that have a case at the court. but the court regularly takes up matters that affect the real estate industry, the real estate trade groups that harlan crow helps fund is involved in some of those cases. but i think the larger issue is that crow has a whole set of ideological interests related to the court. he is a funder of a number of groups that specifically push conservative legal theory groups like the federalist society, is on the board of a number of think tanks like the emergent enterprise institute that work on a range of issues but among them, issues related to the supreme court, advancing legal theories. it raises the question and we don't really know the answer at this point of whether crow and his other friends who he is bringing on some of these trips

with justice thomas r having any influence on the justice. even shifting a supreme court justice's thinking a little on an issue is that it -- you could have enormous consequences for basically all of us. amy: justin elliott, i want to thank you for being with us, reporter for propublica. we will link to your reports. for more on the calls for supreme court justice clarence thomas to step down or be impeached in light of the recent revelations, we're going to look at a historical reference when 54 years ago, supreme court justice was forced to quit for behavior arguably less egregious than thomas'. that is the headline of an op-ed by adam cohen, lawyer, journalist, former member of "the new york times" editorial board, and author of "supreme inequality: the supreme court's 50-year battle for a more unjust america."

you write that justice abe fortas departure from the court in 1960 not is both a blueprint for how lawmakers could respond today and a benchmark of how far we have fallen. can you lay out this history? >> sure. it is the most on point parallel have historically. one thing important to note is what abe fortas did anyways is much less bad than what thomas did. the amount of money was much smaller. he took $20,000. as mentioned, clarence thomas, the amount of island hopping and free plane rides over a 20 year period is staggering, probably well into the billions. the dollar that was different but also fortas gave the money back, which is something clarence thomas has not done. give a much smaller scandal in many ways. what is striking is the bipartisan response was in 1969.

fortas ended up resigning from the court not because republicans were out to get him -- he was a liberal democrat -- because altar mondello demanded he resign. -- but because walter mondale did made he resign. he was afraid he would be impeached by a democratic congress. what is striking also is this is at a time when there was a republican president, nixon, said democrats were doing this even though they knew they might "lose the seat" with a liberal replaced by conservative, but these democrats were so concerned about the integrity of the court and they kept saying, what matters is the public have faith in the court. we are not seeing that at all today. republicans coming out in favor of thomas because of the integrity of the court? we don't have that bipartisanship anymore. juan: could you talk about how the media has responded to this case, fox news filling the void

by locating an expert to declare the story about justice thomas is politics, plain and simple? >> the media, the conservative media defending clarence thomas, found an expert who doesn't see much like an expert, to say it is not a big deal. also, where are the voices of chief justice roberts, for example? we saw last year when there were leaks of that abortion ruling a year ago, chief justice mealy launched an investigation, have to get to the bottom. why is he not saying that now? why is that a much bigger deal there were leaks of an abortion ruling, which conservatives were upset about, compared to clarence thomas ignoring ethics rules for years apparently? where is the chief justice? we are not hearing from them at all. juan: why has the supreme court

been able to get by for so long with essentially no ethics requirements? >> that is exactly it. it is the least accountable part of government we have. there is a judicial code of ethics that is quite i would not say strong but a reasonable code, but it does not apply to the supreme court. it applies to lower court judges. why doesn't it apply to the supreme court? why don't we have come as i said, investigations internally? even the liberal justices could be talking out now. if they think clarence thomas is breaking the law, i think they have a duty to say something. there is no one holding them accountable. the body that would be doing it is impeachment but right now the house is in the control of republicans so they are not doing anything. there have been calls from the senate for an investigation, maybe that will happen. but this is a broken system and many people are using this clarence thomas scandal to say

we have gone too long without any actual ethics code that applies to the justices. congress should pass why now. amy: adam, wrote a book about the supreme court called "supreme inequality: the supreme court's 50-year battle for a more unjust america." can you relate the ethics scandal that clarence thomas is facing today to the theme of your book? >> it is a great point, amy. what i argue in the book is we think of the supreme court as being a force for equality and fairness. but if you look back to the last 50 years after nixon packed the court with conservatives, it has been a force for protecting rich people for increasing inequality. in areas like campaign where they obstruct out these often good laws that congress passed try to regulate the amount of

money from rich people going into politics, education with a world in favor inequality of funding, and on and on -- that is been the theme. we have had a court for 50 years that is been fighting for rich people over poor people. that is only gotten worse in the last few years. it is worse than it has ever been. this is strongly related because think about when you have corruption, financial corruption, when you have justices taking free trips for 20 years --propublica referred to it as island hopping -- who is giving that? that is being given by billionaires, people like crow. welfare was -- welfare recipients cannot afford to give the justices these luxuries. student debt holders, right now before the supreme court, you are not able -- you don't have a yacht to take clarence thomas on so this is yet another way in which the balance is tipped in favor of the powerful and

wealthy. when we talk about their friendship as justin was saying, a friendship between crow and thomas that was made after thomas became a justice so you have to wonder about that, but you also have to wonder if clarence thomas started out ruling in favor of poor people, welfare recipients, took liberal positions, would he continue to get these luxury vacations? i would say not. one of the reasons he is getting them is because, i would argue, it seems crow likes what he's doing on the court. this is a way to put a big thumb in the scale -- on the scale. it is ideologically corrupt. amy: adam, harlan crow for all of his power within the republican party, we learned he has this nazi collection, swastika and bus linens, a signed copy of "mein kampf." hitler embracing

mega-millionaire, if not billionaire, your thoughts on this? close i mean, i was the kind he has said he is interested in historical artifacts and he is not in any way a nazi. look, i want to accept that but on the other hand, i just know it would creep the out so much to have hitler's signature in my home. beyond that, i would not go out and buy it. these are really the facts and something so for about that what is the draw? we will have to take him at his word, but it gives me the willies come honestly. aim can we will leave it there. adam cohen, lawyer, journalist, former member of "the new york times goes with editorial board. we will link to your "new york times" essay "54 years ago, a supreme court justice was forced to quit for behavior arguably less egregious than thomas's." also author of "supreme inequality: the supreme court's 50-year battle for a more unjust america."

that does it for our show. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

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