04/24/23 04/24/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> cease-fire before anything out. what is happening on the ground is these people are the ones leading the efforts that could have been expected from a government we had come a government that is is treated -- government that is interested in the people. rescuing people that are trapped

. amy: at least 420 people have been killed in sudan and thousands have been wounded as fighting continues between rival military factions. as fears of a civil war grow, we -- united states has evacuated the embassy staff in sudan and many other countries have as well. we will get the latest. plus, we look at the u.s. supreme court's decision to protect access to the abortion pill -- at least for now. >> the supreme court stated that would have limited the key abortion drug mifespristone nationwide. it is important understand. not just in the states, but increasingly as their pushes for national limits or even bansn abortion. amy:e will ao speak jan egeland the norgian refee

cocil abousudan bualso abouhonduraswhere heust de a tri he icalling the ternatiol communy to do mo to helphe regiowhere one inhree peoe are in urgent need of aid. >> we are now at the outskirts in hundreds and this is a population that is suffering from all sorts of calamities. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. fighting continues in sudan, where the u.n. reports over 420 deaths since april 15. the u.s. and other nations moved quickly to evacuate diplomats as a sudanese military and paramilitary rapid support forces failed to adhere to announced cease-fires and fears out of a full-blown civil war. in the western darfur region,

doctors say they are overwhelmed treating gun victims, including many children. in the capital khartoum, some residents remain trapped with dwindling supplies of food, water, and power as sudan experiences a near-total collapse of internet and phone service. many others decided to flee for other parts of sudan. >> when i fled, i left with the clothes only, without money as i kept them at home. i did not bring close or backpack, nothing. if you can find a way out, do it. if you think you are safe by staying at your home, you are not. amy: we will get the latest on the sudan conflict after headlines. the u.s. supreme court halted a ban and other restrictions on the abortion medication mifepristone friday, keeping the nation's most popular abortion method available for now as an appeal of the nationwide ban on the pill plays out. the ban was issued earlier this

month by the trump-appointed, right-wing texas judge matthew kaczmarek who ruled the fda's 23-year-old approval of the drug was invalid. justices samuel alito and clarence thomas were the only justices to issue a public dissent in friday's ruling. the case is still likely to end up in front of the supreme court after making its way through a lower appeals court, leading to mounting calls to restructure the nation's highest court. on friday, new york congressmember alexandria ocasio-cortez tweeted -- "the court has devolved into a highly politicized entity that is rapidly delegitimizing. open discussion of checking the court's abuse of power and defying kacsmaryk possibly contributed to pause/consideration." aoc and others had called on the federal government to defy the texas judge's order.

arguments in the challenge to the mifespristone ban are scheduled for may 17. former peruvian president alejandro toledo has been extradited from the u.s. to peru where he faces charges of corruption and money laundering while in office from 2001 to 2006. toledo is accused of receiving millions of dollars in bribes from brazilian construction conglomerate odebrecht in exchange for public work contracts. toledo was taken into custody last week and arrived to lima yesterday. he's denied the accusations. in kenya, authorities have exhumed the bodies of 47 followers of a christian cult who apparently starved themselves to death. investigators say pastor paul mackenzie nthenge convinced members of the good news international church they would go to heaven if they stopped eating. police say they've rescued over

a dozen members of the cult from starvation only to have them continue to refuse food. most of the bodies exhumed so far were of women and children. burkina faso's military government is bling fighte affiliated with al qaeda and the islamic state groufor an atck on thursday that kied 60 civians near the border with mali. survivors id more th 100 peop on motorcles and piup trucksrrived in eir villag dressed in military uniforms before targeting dozens of men and young people for death. conflict in burkina faso has killed tens of thousands of people and displaced about 2 million since 2015. in mexico, thousands of asylum seekers are marching from the southern state of chiapas to mexico city protesting abuse and demanding immigration jails be shut down. this comes nearly a month after the deadly fire at an immigrant gel at the u.s.-mexico border. this is an asylum seeker from honduras. >> were protesting the 40 deaths

to demand the closure of the migration institute, two tim and president obrador paid attention to us because ours is a good cause. to demand removal of the migration director because he's migrant centers are the concentration camps and bunkers of this century. amy: the majority of victims of the fire were indigenous people from guatemala. last week, about two dozen makeshift tents at a migrant camp in matamoros, across the border from texas, were set ablaze after being doused with gasoline. asylum seekers stuck in mexico due to harsh u.s. immigration policies have long denounced human rights violations, including torture, at the hands of organized crime and mexican authorities. mississippi's republican governor tate reeves signed legislation friday expanding the state's control over law enforcement in the black-majority capital city of jackson. the legislation, approved by mississippi's majority-white republican-led state legislature, grants the capitol

police greater authority over much of jackson without being accountable to local leaders or residents. it creates a separate court system for jackson composed of judges appointed directly by white state officials. a lawsuit filed by the naacp seeking to block the law from taking effect warns it will create separate and unequal policing. in atlanta, georgia, rasheeda williams, also known as koko da doll, the star of the award-winning documentary "kokomo city" on the lives of a group of black trans sex workers, was fatally shot last week. the 35-year-old is the latest victim in a wave of violent attacks against trans women in atlanta. following the april 11 order of ashley burton and a shooting in january that left another trans woman in critical condition. in maryland, transgender woman is suing the state's department of corrections after she was improperly held in a jail for men where she was sexually assaulted and denied medical

treatment. according to the federal lawsuit, chelsea gilliam, who is black, was then transferred to another facility and placed in solitary confinement for three months. she was in custody from december 2021 to may 2022 and says she continues to suffer from anxiety and depression. president biden is expected to announce his bid for reelection as early as tuesday, which will mark four years since he announced his candidacy for the 2020 presidential election. he is reportedly -- has reportedly tapped julie chávez rodriguez to run his 2024 campaign. chávez rodriguez was biden's deputy campaign manager in 2020 and is currently the director of the white house office of intergovernmental affairs. she is the granddaughter of labor leader césar chávez and labor activist helen fabela chávez. president biden signed an executive order establishing an office of environmental justice within the white house. biden unveiled his plan at a

ceremony in the rose garden friday. pres. biden: and brownell justice, woven directly -- and by mental justice, woven directly to how we work with tribal and territory governments. this directs the federal agencies to address gaps in science and technology. for example, there's a lot we still don't know about the quality of people's wastewater where the air they are breathing. amy: amy: environmental groups welcomed the announcement but cautioned that biden remains a major supporter of fossil fuels, having approved drilling projects on federal land faster than trump did during his first two years in office. the center for biological diversity said in a statement -- "if the president wants to distinguish himself from oily republicans, let's see him reverse the willow project, stop approving massive gulf drilling and gas exports, and phase down public lands drilling." the united nations warns in a new report that record levels of heat-trapping greenhouse gases led to planetary-scale changes on land, at sea, and in the

atmosphere last year. the world meteorological organization's state of the global climate report released on earth day found the years 2015-2022 were the eight warmest on record despite the cooling impact of la niña over much of that period. antarctic sea ice fell to its lowest extent on record, glaciers retreated at an accelerating pace, and ocean heat content reached a new record high last year. the wmo warns sea level rise due to human activity is set to continue for millennia. the environmental protection agency is preparing to announce limits on greenhouse gas emissions from power plants in a bid to cut one of the main sources of u.s. air pollution by 2040. the new rules reportedly would force power plants to capture carbon dioxide emissions from their smokestacks or use other methods to eliminate nearly all carbon dioxide emissions by 2040. and activists around the world

marked earth day saturday with marches and other actions drawing attention to the climate crisis. in the u.k., extinction rebellion, greenpeace, and other groups organized four days of protests under the banner of the "the big one," which included a massive rally and a die-in outside london's parliament. this is an air quality researcher and climate activist speaking from one of this weekend's actions. >> we are in one of the busiest streets of london. the air pollution created from this and the agriculture is creating a spring haze over london. this comes from meat and dairy and fossil fuels. the government are not taking those things into account and try to reduce either of those things. instead, they're trying to get over 100 new oil and gas licenses which is incompatible with a 1.5 degree warming world. amy: smaller rallies took place across the united states. in washington, d.c., activists marched to the white house to demand an end to the nation's reliance on fossil fuels. elsewhere, the german group last generation climate organized a

slow march through berlin, causing gridlock in parts of the city. the same group, known for its acts of disruption, shut down dozens of traffic junctions in berlin today by gluing their hands to the streets, including the middle of a major highway. in activist said "we're bringing the city to a standstill so the government moves." in france, thousands of people in the southern tarn region marched to protest a proposed new highway and built a cement brick wall in the middle of a national road to oppose the project. locals say the highway would increase pollution and threatens the area's biodiversity. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we begin today's show looking at the crisis in sudan where fighting between rival military factions has killed at least 420 people and injured close to

4000. over the weekend, u.s. special forces flew into evacuate embassy staff and many other nations evacuated diplomats as well as their citizens as fear grows the fighting could lead to a civil war in africa's third largest country by size. the sudanese military and the paramilitary rapid support forces have been fighting each other since april 15. the fighting has dashed hopes of a return of civilian rule in sudan. cnn is reporting the russian mercenary group wagner has backed the rsf by providing by -- by providing surface-to-air missiles. the head of the wagner group has denied cnn's report. he did offer to act as a mediator. in sudan's capital khartoum, many residents remain trapped with dwindling supplies of food, water, and power as sudan experiences a near-total collapse of internet and phone

service. the world food program is warning the fighting could plunge millions more into hunger in sudan. this is a nigerian student stranded in khartoum. >> there is no electricity. i was having a little water left with me. i cannot -- for two days, i can't shower. there is no water to drink. there is no food. you cannot go out to the street to buy food. there is nothing you can buy. even the cash is not there. amy: doctors without borders recently reported up to 70% of the hospitals in khartoum and neighboring states are not able to function. this is esraa abou shama, a doctor at sudan's health ministry. >> most of the big and specialized hospitals are out of service and not offering any

services of examination or treatments because they have been targeted with shelling. and some of them because of the shortage of doctors, also because of the electricity and water outages. amy: we are joined now by two guests, khalid mustafa medani is an associate professor of political science and islamic studies, and chair of the african studies program at mcgill university. he is joining us from montréal. thank you for being with us. we hope to also have a guest in khartoum but it looks like there is almost a complete internet as well as cellular service shut down in sudan, so we have not been able to reach them. professor, can you describe the situation? we have been talking about it being near a civil war. is it in the midst of the civil war right now? >> i would not it as a civil war because that would suggest you have essentially a collection of

people, a group of people fighting another. this is essentially a power struggle between general abdel fattah al-burhan and the head of the paramilitary militia. unfortunately, the civilians are held hostage. it is not so much a civil war but essentially a fight to the death between two generals who have been partners and allies in the past. the consequences for the capital city that houses approximately 8 million to 10 many people is unsent -- unprecedented in terms of the catastrophe. not only their over 500 people that have perished, that is probably clearly an underestimation, but the humanitarian consequences -- basically, the infrastructure has collapsed. it is not just the supplies of food are not there but also people are trying to flee the

city and most cannot. thousands are fleeing northwards toward egypt or the red sea. in the east, there are clashes in door for -- darfur. this is president it and the kinds of violence at the capitol city has witnessed. i would categorize it less as a civil war and basically a conflict between two generals who are just basically trying to take over political control of the country. amy: explain what prompted the latest conflict. give us a brief history of sudan. >> absolutely. i think for your viewers, it is important understand these two generals had conspired and were partners in upending the very fragile coalition government in october 2021 that had been set up after the historic revolution

of 2019 where millions of sudanese took to the streets not only in the capital of khartoum, but rather country, that overthrew 30 years of an islamist authoritarian dictatorship under the rule of the former president. after that revolution, there was a coalition government that was supposed to oversee the country to transition toward the civilian democracy and actions that will consolidate that most october 2021, both of these generals, the one with the head of the army and his deputy who is now the head of the militia, decided basically to wage a coot to abend that -- upend that transition to democracy. protests continued following that. forcing and compelling these two generals to actually get back to the table with civilian

politicians. what was called a framework agreement and the auspices of the international community, the actors from the international community included the united states, the united kingdom, saudi arabia, the united arab emirates. that framework agreement was supposed to restart and revitalize this transition to a civilian democracy. but there were three essential contentious issues that really have sparked this particular conflict. one of them had to do it the issue of accountability. that is transitional justice, accountability on both the generals because on the one hand , one have been accused of violence in the darfur region, putting down the insurgency. and al-burhan. both repressed the activists on the street in june 2019, both of

them and their forces essentially killed over 100 activists that have been in -- trying to energize this revolution. another issue was the dismantling of the economic empire that have been built by the former regime oversee now by al-burhan and dismantling the vast wealth that hemeti had amassed the smuggling of wagon corporation and sending mercenaries to the war in yemen. these were two essential kind of contentious issues. the one that really sparked this conflict was the issue over integrating the paramilitary militia into the standing army. that is really where the dispute emerged leading to this horrible conflict. on the one hand, general al-burhan had wanted the paramilitary militia to be integrated within the course of two years.

very quick integration. after which he could consolidate his rule over the military establishment. on the one hand -- on the other hand, hemeti wanted this to happen over the course of 10 years. essentially, rejecting integrating his paramilitary forces into the national standing army. it is at that point that the calculated they had to actually defeat the rival. quickly, they had the pill look -- paramilitary began mobilizing even more forces in khartoum and throughout the neighborhoods and also attacking an airport and ordered sedan. that mobilization is what led al-burhan to utilize the forces of the national army to try to eliminate his rival, essentially both of them now are in a battle to the death.

the political and economic ambitions held hostage of these two generals. it is not a war, it is the kind of result of this kind of greed for power and their interest in maintaining their vast economic assets and empire both built in the course of the previous regime. america you see this could become -- amy: you see this could be a proxy war? you have hemeti in moscow on the day russia invaded ukraine. you talk about him getting support for the rsf forces from the wagoner group, the russian group. then you have the united states there clearing out its embassy, 16,000 so they're posted saudi arabia and italy clearing their staff will stop talk about the

significance of this. is this also a fight of resources as you mentioned, gold? >> absolutely. there is no question there's a very good chance it would devolve into a proxy war because these two generals had already been utilized as proxies by certain powers. in the case of hemeti, no question the wagner corporation whether mercenaries had helped in amassing gold and smuggled not only to russia eventually but the majority of it to the united arab emirates. that is very important. he also served in the past as a mercenary, being sent to yemen at the behest in support of yemen, saudi arabia and the united arab emirates in that war . another important aspect of hemeti, he has close links with the libyan national army that

also supported him. hemeti had sent soldiers from his paramilitary militia to libya to fight under the leader in that war in 2019. many of them have returned, however. with respect to hemeti. with respect to al-burhan, his links to egypt are strong. he is opposed to democratic solution in sudan but also deeply concerned about egypt's interest with respect to the nile waters. i want to emphasize in this context, the strategic location of sudan. i think many people are unaware how important it is located. not only borders the red sea and the indian ocean, which is so important -- russia, historically, has wanted to have a naval base there. they had been working an agreement to do so. that is of great concern to the

united states and saudi arabia and the united arab emirates, so there is a scramble for control over the strategic location of the port of sudan in the red sea. sudan also shares the nile waters with egypt and ethiopia. those two countries come as you know, have been in conflict over the establishment of the open renaissance dam. egypt in particular has been concern. south sudan, for those who may not be aware, does have a great deal of oil exports to china but that oil has to go through pipeline in sudan. that becomes really important. the strategic location of sudan is the main reason there is a great danger of this conflict not only destabilizing sudan, which it has in the capital city and the country, but the entire region has a different actors understand and they are very quickly that their own strategic

interests and the conflicts with their rivals may actually be undermined if's stability completely -- sudan's stability completely -- amy: al-burhan made his first public remarks since the fighting broke out. >> there remains hope we are with our great people and we will overcome this tribulation and emerge from it unified strongly coherent and our slogan will only get stronger, what army/one people. amy: in his speech, he claimed sudan's military is committed to a transition to civilian rule, even though he led the coup 18 months ago that toppled sudan's civilian prime minister abdalla hamdok. if you can talk about that and then we will talk about, well, she said, this isn't a civil war it is they a war between two militaries and what is happening to the people, including your own family. >> absolutely. absolutely.

what that signaling both of them it is not only al-burhan but even more so hemeti have insisted there fighting for democracy. there fighting for democracy and return sedan to that path toward a transition, toward a civilian democracy. that of course is simply on their part propaganda to the international community, but even more importantly i would like to visayas the reason they also are stating on both their parts is because of the sheer resilience of the sudanese population. and in the unanimity, continue despite what is going on, to insist the sudan future must be predicated on a transition to a full civilian government. the reason they're both making these statements is not only to gesture to the international community and generate support -- after all, the international community had committed themselves until recently, until

this conflict emerged, to oversee and help support sudan toward a transition to a civilian democracy. but neither of these generals -- this is why i'm not calling it a civil war despite the severity of the conflict. neither of them have the can to chew and see -- constituency among the sudanese. on one hand, hemeti is relying almost inclusively on mercenaries he has paid out of the smuggling of gold and his vast wealth and utilizing them as mercenaries on the other hand, al-burhan is really the had not so much of the armed forces at the top brass at the armed forces that are in sudan refer to as the remnant of the former islamist regime of the national congress party. on the part of al-burhan, his only constituency is a very limited group of people who are fighting as much as they can in this case at the cost of the sudanese people in order to

retain the vast wealth of the deep state that the islamist authoritarian regime has built. that is the only constituency they have. that is very important and explains the lack of popularity with respect to al-burhan on the part of the sudanese population. on the other hand, hemeti does not only have the constituency among the silly population but at the moment he is using his malicious in street battles where he is using this population essentially as human shields because of this kind of strategy he needs to utilize absent having a kind of strategic weapons, including airplanes or fighter jets. he has to resort and is resorting to these street battles in order to generate military victory in the capital of khartoum. it is very import to understand those have narrow constituencies. amy: in a moment we will be joined by jan egeland to talk about the humanitarian

activities in the area of nongovernmental organizations and what they're able to do in sudan. but i want to ask about your own family. you are trying to get your mother out? are you able to reach her? >> thank you for asking. like the thousands of sudanese, she is hopefully on the road from khartoum. it is not only my mother but my aunts and uncles and cousins. they have taken several buses. like all sudanese, live relatives throughout the capital city not just one neighborhood. unfortunately, medication is very patchy and that is why your guest was not able to make it. it is of great concern for all sudanese. it is a very long and arduous trip. there are checkpoints. the decision to leave is really based on basically the evaporation of any other kind of option. no one wants to leave their home but it is not just about the

shelling. it is also about azure news reporting demonstrated, people need to be aware that people are completely running out of water and food and also there are no medicines. there is no choice except to leave the capital city and find refuge elsewhere. it is absolutely understandable the international community and foreign countries have evacuated their citizens and essential staff and hopefully they will evacuate sudanese citizens from their country. at the same time, this is signaling navigation of the responsibility not only to the transitioning sudan to a democracy but the depth of the humanitarian crisis will not be addressed, international community will not have the will to actually intervene. i think that is the most crucial at the moment. i think they can. there are many pressure points

they can apply. i would even argue because of the actors that have supported these generals that selective sanctions -- and says something even congress has been deliberating upon -- targeted sanctions toward them. i believe sincerely if it is concerted effort on the part of the international community can work. importantly, very important to emphasize neighboring countries have to be encouraged to maintain their open borders and to be supported in that. it is a great burden countries no matter how generous they may be to take fleeing, displaced persons and refugees, but that can be alleviated by jan egeland and others and the united nations has been done before in what we call complex humanitarian emergencies. i believe that is really important to emphasize.

it is very possible, hopefully, even though most foreigners have evacuated their citizens, this does not signal abdicating responsibility for sudan. i would argue it is not only humanitarian, for those in the different capitals in neighboring countries, regional blocks, but also further in the united states -- this is a country whose stability is crucial to the stability of the horn of africa, the red sea, indian ocean, so he'll region, throughout north africa. there largest country in the continent. i think that is something that must be kind of highlighted and reiterated to the international community. amy: khalid mustafa medani, we want to thank you so much for being with us. you mentioned jan. we also have him on the line with us from washington. he is just back from honduras but is also dealing with what is

happening in sudan as we look at how virtually all humanitarian work has been paralyzed in sudan. the norwegian refugee council says the "worst-case scenario is unfolding" because they are unable to provide assistance amid such heavy fighting. we are joined by the nrc's secretary general jan egeland. if you can lay the humanitarian situation right now in sudan that you and other ngos are facing? if you could start again? i did not hear the beginning of what you said. i'm not sure if anyone else is hearing, but i am not hearing you. i think you are muted. we will try -- we are going -- i think we can hear you now.

we can't so we're going to go to break and then we will come back and fix this issue. i wish the issue in sudan could be fixed as easily. khalid mustafa medani, thank you for being with us, sudanese scholar, chair of the african studies program at mcgill university. speaking to us from montréal. we will be back in a moment. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "ya sudan" by sinkane. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we continue on sudan, virtually all humanitarian work paralyzed as these militaries fight each other and the siblings are in the crossfire. the norwegian refugee council saying it is the worst case scenario that is unfolding because they are unable to provide assistance amid such heavy fighting. hopefully, we have on the line with us right now the secretary-general of the norwegian refugee council jan egeland. if you can lay out, we are hoping we have your sound right now, lay out the humanitarian situation in sudan?

we don't have you. i am sorry to say. we don't hear you. we were hoping we could get you on the phone. it looks like we were not able to do that. we're going to see if we can get you on by the end of the show but we are going to move on to another top story in the united it's right now and hopefully get back to jan egeland at the end of the broadcast. we are now turning to the u.s. supreme court decision that closely watched decision for the supreme court friday halted a ban and other restrictions on the abortion medication mifespristone on friday, keeping the nation's most popular abortion method available for now as an appeal of the nationwide ban on the pill plays out. the ban was issued earlier this month by the trump-appointed, right-wing judge matthew kacsmaryk of texas, who ruled

the fda's 23-year-old approval of the drug was invalid. justices samuel alito and clarence thomas were the only ones to dissent in the ruling. the case is still likely to end up in front of the supreme court after making its way through a lower appeals court. this has led to mounting calls to restructure the nation's highest court. on friday, new york congressmember alexandria ocasio-cortez tweeted -- "the court has devolved into a highly politicized entity that is rapidly delegitimizing. open discussion of checking the court's abuse of power and defying kacsmaryk possibly contributed to pause/consideration." aoc and others had called on the federal government to defy the texas judge's order. arguments in the challenge to the mifespristone ban are scheduled for may 17.

for more, we are joined by mary ziegler, the martin luther king professor of law at the university of california, davis. author of six books, including "roe: the history of a national obsession" and "dollars for life: the anti-abortion movement and the fall of the republican establishment." her new piece for the atlantic is headlined "the justices pass on an abortion-pill ban. until they hear a better case." welcome back to democracy now! explain what you mean. talk about the significance of the supreme court ruling on friday. >> the significance on the ground is hard to underestimate because this means that people will have access to this pill mifespristone on the same terms they did before this litigation began. but we don't want to read too much into it. this is what is considered a shadow docket ruling, meaning there was no oral argument, meaning we don't really know why the majority of the justices did

what they did. of course it is early in litigation. i think most of us are correct to assume this does not bode well for the antiabortion groups that are the plaintiffs in this suit. seven of the justices sided with the fda, and that is a preview of what they think of the merits of the case. but that does not mean the supreme court is generally any less hostile to abortion or any less conservative then was the case before. most likely, in these this was a lousy case, there were real questions about whether these plaintiffs have standing to sue. they brought this case 23 years after the fda approved mifespristone, so there were questions about whether it was a timely lawsuit. it may just be no matter how conservative the justices are, they thought this case was procedurally so flawed that we cannot sign off on it. but there are lots of surprisingly antiabortion lawsuits in the pipeline because antiabortion lawyers understand how conservative the supreme court is right now. amy: if you can explain, you had

alito and clarence thomas dissenting. explain what that meant and what it signifies. you have the supreme court that is completely bogged down otherwise as well. and the serious questions being asked about clarence thomas and if you think that weighed in and separate from the levels of corruption, not reporting financial support from this billionaire donor -- not separate from the story because he deeply tied to litter leo who was key to getting kacsmaryk seated as a trump appointee, a judge in amarillo, texas. >> the dissent was bad news in the sense that we don't know why thomas dissented. he just dissented. he did not explain.

alito did so essentially to say not that he thought the plaintiffs had standing to sue, not that he thought the fda did not have authority to approve mifespristone, not to allude to this comstock act but basically to say i don't think the fda is going to suffer any harm here because i don't think the fda would basically enforce any order against mifespristone anyway because the fda thinks mifespristone is safe and effective. essentially the fda will use its discretion to ignore anything we say or the fda will be somehow kind of lawless -- which was a weird thing to write. again, bad news for the plaintiffs because even justice alito was not taking the time to express any kind of sympathy for any of the plaintiffs arguments about mifespristone itself. in terms of whether clarence thomas ongoing scandal had anything to do with this, i would be a little skeptical of that. it may be some of the justices who are now can heard often the ones holding deciding votes like brett kavanaugh and amy coney

barrett, maybe there are concerns with the court as an institution and the perceived legitimacy of the court. but i think there are some signs a lot of the justices on this court are not concerned with the court's legitimacy, don't see themselves as stewards of the institution. i certain think that is true of thomas, sorta presented himself in very populist terms as sort of an outsider who opposed institutions, not some like chief justice john roberts who for all the very conservative -- although his conservative does seem concerned about perceptions of the court. some members of the conservative majority don't seem to share those concerns. it would surprise me if someone like neil gorsuch who joined the opinion staying the fifth circuit's ruling, if he was concerned about what is going on with fans thomas i think it may be more within the conservative legal community, there are a lot of sort of arguments of people like leonard leo have cultivated

and those include those about staining. and these plaintiffs i think don't had standing. i don't know if this broader shift in the court or broader concern about the legitimacy of the court that might slow down some of the really revolutionary changes the court is making in jurisprudence across the board, not just when it comes to abortion. amy: do you think the supreme court is aware of the effect it is having, for example, even on the elections to come and how deeply unpopular these decisions around abortion are that across the political spectrum, the vast majority of americans were against antiabortion ban? >> it is hard to say. i think they are aware, absolutely. these are intelligent people. the russian is more, do they care? there are different ways you could review the rule of the deeply conservative justice. he could see yourself as a partisan soldier so you could

see your role as being to facilitate part in terms of the republican party is invested in or not. you can see your role as being faithful to some kind of ideology or interpretive set of commitments that have nothing to do the gop or nothing to do with the people who nominated you. and i think at least some of the justices -- and this was clear in justice alito's case with dobbs -- says people raising the idea this opinion will damage our legitimacy and, one, i don't know if that is true, but more importantly, if it is true, we should not care about that. the court's legitimacy is the public perception of the court is not our job. i think there are number of conservative justices who feel that way when they're doing things that are unpopular. that is really none of anyone else's concern. of course that puts the court in some tension with republican leadership because republican leadership once to be able to

cut its own path when it comes to abortion. and not be pushed into defending things like nationwide bans from the 19th century that the courts are bringing to the fore. i think we are going to continue to see that at least from the fifth circuit as they continue to look at this case in may. it may well be the supreme products that up as well. i don't know. i don't know if the supreme court cares about its effect on elections were not stop my guess is no. amy: professor, where the access to the abortion pill, the majority of americans guess the majority of people who use -- get abortions, use the abortion pill, is access right now? >> right now it is the same before the litigation began. if you are in a blue state that has no restrictions or bans on abortion, can get access to the

abortion by telehealth up to 10 weeks. if you're in a state that criminalizes abortion, this outcome is not change that. you're not able to get access to the pill in your state. you have to travel to a different state and/or you something like aid access. so nothing is changed at the national level. but i think the suit -- and i think the references to the comstock act make clear people who are in progressive states can't be complacent in the sense of assuming access to abortion will be determined by the state governments because this is one of a series of suits that are trying to take the question out of the hands of voters and lawmakers in progressive states. amy: want to thank you, mary ziegler, for being with us martin luther king professor of , law at the university of california, davis. we will link to your new piece

for the atlantic headlined "the justices pass on an abortion-pill ban. until they hear a better case." we're going to go to break. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: amy: "i know the end" by phoebe bridges. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we end today's show with jan egeland, jusback fro hondas, butefore weo to nduras w want to talk about what ihappeninin san. you arthe seetary-general of the norwegian refugee council. can you talk about the level of humanitarian support, if there is any, in sudan right now as these militaries fight each other and kill civilians in the crossfire? >> at the moment, amy, is hardly any humanitarian work in large parts of sudan, which was a place in deep humanitarian crisis before this senseless intra-military battle that has engulfed nearly all of the cities and nearly all of the regions. however, i think the story is too much now, let's affect what

all the diplomats, let's evacuate all of the internationals. what will be the role of the wagner group and so on. i think the real story is many of the sudanese are now in freefall and those who are worse off are the millions of internally displaced people and the refugees come and that is why we and all of rp organizations are now planning to help resume work as soon there is a pause in the fighting. amy: there's been a cease-fire put in place, what attempted cease-fire but the militaries don't honor it. are you dealing with these leaders, the military leaders of the country? >> i have reached out to those u.n. envoys who have contact with them. we will also use whatever contacts we can via countries who deal with them because we

need to get to them. that this war -- it is really a war now -- will be impossible to stop if it last for much longer. still have an opportunity to have a real cease-fire. if they lose complete control over the fighters, as they are in some areas, this will be a nightmare beyond belief. amy: we're going to switch gears down from sudan to hondura where u just rurnedrom. if you c talk abt the situatioon the ground, wt you e conceed with most, and e call bu.s.enats w sent a letter to the biden administration calling for the president to continue to protect salvadoreans and hondurans with temporary protected status, or tps. connect all of these issues. >> that is very important,

really. it is important to realize that in your neighborhood, there are war, like -- war-like conditions. at crisscrossed many of the countries. i was in honduras in recent days. thousands and thousands of families in the middle of the crossfire between armed groups, drug cartels, heavily aed gas -- theseeople arin the same sittion as th sudese, if youik the ukrnians or the syrians that get much moref the atntion. the rean peoplere movin north ithere is no security r thein centr ameca. ere is n hope r a beer future. so what we cano as

organizations onhe ground with resources om northmerica b alsorom europe and so on is provide humanitarian protection, education, livelihoods so there is hope for a better future there. at the same time as, of course, north america needs to honor the legitimate asylum applications for protection of people from their own neighborhood. amy: can you explain why humanitarian funding for honduras and guatemala and el salvador has been reduced to some of the lowest globally during this crisis and the effect this has -- particularly talk -- [no audio]

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♪ [singing in cantonese] [singing in cantonese] bill birtles: it was the pro-democracy movement's anthem of hope. that somehow, the will of millions of hong kongers would prevail over the might of beijing. ♪♪♪ [singing in cantonese] [singing in cantonese]