amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> after three trials, we have secured the convictions of leaders of both the proud boys and the oath keepers for seditious conspiracy. weekly conspiring to oppose by force the lawful transfer of presidential power. amy: four members of the far-right proud boys including

the group's leader enrique tarrio have been convicted of seditious conspiracy for their role in the jan. 6 insurrection. they face decades in prison. we will get the latest. then to the ray-ban battery trial for donald trump. on thursday, lawyers for writer e. jean carroll and donald trump rested their cases. >> the cross-examination has drawn on all sorts of myths and misperceptions about how victims behave. we will see if the jury is able to discard some of that and judge credibility based on the evidence. amy: and then freedom to learn. protests were held across the country this week against right-wing efforts to ban books and antiracism education from schools. in florida, 14 members of the dream defenders were arrested for staging a peaceful sit in inside the office of republican governor ron desantis. >> we are going to be here until

ron desantis comes back to his office to meet with the people of florida who have been directly affected by his nonsense and hate. and his pandering and his petty b.s. amy: we will speak with a dream defender as well as professor kimberly crenshaw. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. fighting in sudan's capital khartoum intensified thursday as the sudanese army battled the rapid support forces paramilitary group for strategic locations. the u.n.'s top human attorney official martin griffiths arrived in port sudan where he called on combatants to allow the distribution of critically needed relief shipments to millions of civilians trapped by the fighting. >> we need air lifts, supplies.

importantly, six trucks which were going to darfur were rejected despite the assurances of security. it is a volatile environment. amy: the un says the violence has forced 100,000 civilians to flee their homes, with critical shortages of food, water, medicine, and electricity. in washington, d.c., president biden signed an executive order thursday authorizing sanctions against sudanese leaders. the order came as the u.s. director of national intelligence avril haines told a senate panel sudan's conflict is likely to be protracted, as both sides believe that they can win militarily, and have few incentives to come to the negotiating table. in ukraine, the head of the wagner group says he will pull the russian mercenary forces under his control out of the besieged city of bakhmut next week, may 10, after he blasted russia's military of failing to provide enough ammunition. he stayed in a statement that

the remaining troops would withdraw to logistics camps to "lick our wounds." meanwhile, the kremlin has accused the united states of involvement in what it said was a drone attack on wednesday aimed at the official residence of russian president vladimir putin. the white house dismissed the allegations as ludicrous. a jury in washington has convicted four members of the far-right group proud boys of seditious conspiracy and other felonies for their role in the january 6 capital insurrection and for attempting to keep donald trump in power after he lost the 2020 election. the proud boys verdict is seen as a major victory for the justice department. during two previous trials, six members of another far-right group, the oath keepers, were also convicted of sedition. we will have more on the proud boys after headlines. propublica reports billionaire republican donor harlan crow paid two years of private school tuition for the grandnephew of supreme court justice clarence thomas, who failed to disclose the payments on his annual financial disclosures. tuition at the hidden lake

academy in georgia cost over $6,000 a month. propublica previously reported crow also paid money to thomas and his relatives in an undisclosed real estate deal, and that thomas accepted luxury travel from crow virtually every year for decades, while failing to follow a federal law that requires him to publicly report most gifts. meanwhile, “the washington pos”" reports conservative judicial activist leonard leo arranged for clarence thomas's wife, ginni thomas, to be paid at least $80,000 for consulting work over a decade ago. leo asked the republican pollster at the time kellyanne conway to bill the payments to a nonprofit group leo advises and specified that ginni thomas's name should be left off any paperwork. that same year, in 2012, the nonprofit filed a brief to the supreme court in the landmark case shelby county v. holder, in which thomas cast the deciding vote in a 5-to-4 ruling that

gutted the voting rights act of 1965. in pakistan, at least eight people were killed in two separate shootings in the town of kurram, thursday. gunmen stormed a government school opening fire and fatally shooting five teachers and two construction workers. another teacher was killed after their vehicle was ambushed on a nearby road. no one has claimed responsibility. in serbia, president aleksandar vucic has vowed to completely disarm the country after at least eight people were killed in a mass shooting near the town of mladenovac, thursday. the suspect opened fire from his moving vehicle. he was arrested earlier today. the latest massacre came just one day after a 13-year-old boy went on a rampage at a school in the capital belgrade, killing eight students and a school guard. the boy was using guns that belonged to his parents, who have both also been arrested. the attacks have sent shock waves through the balkan nation where mass shootings are extremely rare. the last one happened in 2013. hours before thursday's shooting, protesters gathered

outside the education ministry in belgrade, demanding justice for the school shooting victims. >> i am sincerely sorry that serbia is now on a list of countries where things like this happen. it has changed the feeling i'm going to school for all children and everyone who works there. some mothers have to send their kids back to class today. how can they explain that they can go safely to school? there are no words for something like this. amy: though serbia has strict gun control laws, thousands of illegal weapons flooded the streets following the balkan wars in the 1990s. back in the united states in georgia, at least three people re killein two sarate shtings, trsday. the gunm is accud of fir killg his moer and andmotheat theiromes, bere goingo a mcdold'in ultrie, ooting t store manager,hursday. the suect thenook his n life. this ce a day ter anotr shoong in atnta leftt let one peon dead.

4 others were also injured. authorities found the body of -- his three children and two teenage girls who were there for a sleepover before taking his own life. the youngest victim was 13 years old. meanwhile in california, a former uc davis student was arrested thursday in connection with the release of stabbings including the killings of an un-houseman and another college student. the suspect was charged with murder and attempted murder david the victims were identified as david broke who was on house and a beloved figure in davis, and senior karima boulanger. wall street regulators halted trade -- trading in shares of pacwest and western alliance on thursday, after stock prices for the regional banks fell dramatically. the plunge raised new fears about the health of the u.s.

banking sector, following the collapse of silicon valley bank and signature bank in march, and just days after jp morgan chase purchased first republic in a fire sale, after it became the second-largest bank to fail in u.s. history. iowa, republican governor kim reynolds on thursday pledged to sign a bill rolling back child labor protections. among other things, the legislation will permit children as young as 14 to work in construction and demolition jobs if a guardian has granted permission. in washington, d.c., vermont independent senator bernie sanders called thursday for a 32-hour workweek with no pay cuts for u.s. workers. sen. sanders also said he'll introduce legislation to more than double the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $17 an hour. >> in the richest country of the

world, nobody should be forced to work for starvation wages that is not a radical idea. if you work 40, 50 hours a week, you should not be living in poverty. it is time to raise the minimum wage to a living wage. amy: in north carolina, the republican-led senate has passed legislation that would ban most abortions after 12 weeks. republicans quickly approved the measure less than two days after it was introduced. democratic governor roy cooper has vowed to veto the bill, but the legislature's gop supermajority likely has enough votes to override him. under current north carolina law, abortions are legal for up to 20 weeks. the state has been a safe haven for many people living in the south who need the procedure after most estates in the south banned abortions after the supreme court's gutting of roe v. wade. here in new york, protest continue amid mounting anger over the killing of street

performer jordan neely, who was choked to death by another subway passenger, monday, while being held down by another two riders. neely, an unhoused 30-year-old black man, was crying out in a train that he was hungry when he was fatally attacked. no one has been arrested or charged despite the death being ruled a homicide by the medical examiner. neely was a beloved fixture on the new york city subways for his performances impersonating michael jackson. a number of lawmakers have joined the chorus of voices condemning the vigilante style of murder, and and mayor eric adams, who has demonized and cuts services for unhoused people and mental illness, while flooding the train system with police. new york city council speaker adrienne adams said in a statement "racism that continues to permeate throughout our society allows for a level of dehumanization that denies black people from being recognized as victims when subjected to acts of violence. any possible mental health challenges that jordan may have

been experiencing were no reason for his life to be taken.” as king charles prepares for his coronation on saturday, indigenous leaders in former british colonies are calling on the monarch to apologize, pay reparations and "acknowledge the horrific impacts on and legacy of genocide and colonization of the indigenous and enslaved peoples.” they are also demanding the repatriation of the remains and cultural artefacts of indigenous peoples. the letter to king charles is signed by groups in antigua and barbuda, australia, the bahamas, belize, canada, grenada, jamaica, new zealand, papua new guinea, saint kitts and nevis, saint lucia, and saint vincent and the grenadines. britain was one of the largest slave traders in the atlantic in the 18th century. senior jamaican government official marlene malahoo fort spoke with sky news thursday. >> why not a full apology?

is it because you may have to give back the wealth of the monarchy taken from the people? taken from the places that were colonized? taken from the places where the people were enslaved? it is personal for people. the policies that are racist and unjust by virtue of nationality and ethnic background, the color of your skin. that is not right. amy: minister malahoo fort said the coronation has accelerated plans for jamaica to become a republic, with a referendum taking place as early as next year. the coronation ceremony will cost british taxpayers up to $125 million at a time where many are struggling to pay for basic living expenses. this week, the home office wrote to anti-monarchy groups planning peaceful protests, warning them about criminal penalties and expanded police powers that were

rushed into law ahead of the coronation. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. a jury in washington, d.c. has convicted four members of the far-right group proud boys of seditious conspiracy for their role in the jan. 6 insurrection and for attempting to keep donald trump in power after he lost the 2020 election. the jury convicted proud boys leader enrique tarrio along with joseph biggs, ethan nordean, and zachary rehl on sedition which could carry a sentence of nearly 50 years in prison. a fifth proud boy, dominic pezzola, was found not guilty of sedition but he was convicted with the others of numerous felonies including obstructing an official proceeding and obstructing congress. during two previous trials six members of another far-right group, the oath keepers, were also convicted of sedition. the verdicts are seen as a major victory for the justice department.

attorney general merrick garland spoke on thursday. >> today's verdict makes clear that the justice department will do everything in its power to defend the american people and american democracy. the the past two years, the department has secured more than 600 convictions for a wide range of criminal conduct on january 6, as well as in the days and weeks leading up to the attack. and now, after three trials, we have secured the convictions of leaders of both proud boys and the oath keepers for seditious conspiracy. specifically, conspiring to oppose by force a lawful transfer of presidential power. our work will continue. amy: during the trial, federal prosecutors described the proud boys as donald trump's army, saying they were “lined up behind donald trump and willing to commit violence on his behalf." attorneys for the proud boys

attempted to shift the blame for jan. 6 solely on the former president. defense attorney nayib hassan told jurors “it was donald trump's words. it was his motivation. it was his anger that caused what occurred on january 6th in your beautiful and amazing city. it was not enrique tarrio. they want to use enrique tarrio as a scapegoat for donald j. trump and those in power.” tarrio was convicted even though he was not in washington during the insurrection. he had been arrested days earlier in another criminal case. we are joined now by andy campbell. he is a senior editor at huffpost. his book is titled, “we are proud boys: how a right-wing street gang ushered in a new era of american extremism.” start off by talking about the significance of these verdicts. four verdicts, guilty verdicts for suspicious conspiracy. andy: it is a hard bar to cross.

not only did prosecutors have to prove that the proud boys impeded or oppose the government by force, but that they had an agreement to do so before hand. that last bit was a difficult bar for them to cross. prosecutors put together a strong case against them and proved the proud boys did have an agreement even on the day to storm the capital. -- capitol. this charge is historically brought against terrorists on american soil. the last successful prosecution was against islamic militants who were threatening to blow up the u.n.. this is the government saying we are very serious and this trial is a bookend to its two highest profile cases for january 6 against the oath keepers and proud boys. amy: how does this affect the overall trials of the january 6 defendants? we are talking over 1000 people

have been arrested. andy: absolutely. certainly, those prosecutions are ongoing. hundreds havecome, and there will be many more to face prison time over january 6. this is the government proving again that the argument that these were hapless protesters in the street fueled by donald trump is not a good one. it has not worked for any of the other january 6 defendants, not the proud boys, not for anybody. even though the proud boys's goals are to fight for trump and gop grievances, that is not a valid excuse in front of these juries. amy: who are the proud boys? talk about tarrio in particular, who was in baltimore at the time. andy: the are a far right street gang that started in 2016, us

tentatively to fight for the gop's grievances. during january 6, they were there, statedly, to have a civil war war in the name of donald trump. even though their leaders are behind bars, they continue to fight those events is against lgbtq people, drag queens, women, abortion clinics. that part of the proud boys remain. they helped cement this atmosphere of political violence we have in this country right now. tarrio was the proud boys connection to donald trump and his allies. i spoke to roger stone, one of trump's confidence, that he had been advising the proud boys for years leading up to january 6 and was a good friend of tarrio. during the trial, prosecuted didn't get much into those relationships. the judge said you have to stick to the points and these proud

boys' defendants, but the question remains on the table. how close did tarrio and the proud boys get close to donald trump directly through people like roger stone? tarrio is their leader and political factor. him going behind bars will be disruptive but it will not end them completely. amy: i want to go to carmen hernandez, attorney for defendant zachary rehl, leaving the courthouse. >> he is a young man who served his country. i do not believe he committed seditious conspiracy. has never been convicted of a crime of violence, but that jerry has spoken, and that is our system of justice. very disappointed in the verdict. i think as a society we to criminal law too often. what mr. trump did or did not do is of no moment to me or mr. rehl.

but he was the one who called the rally, had everyone show up. amy: your response, andy campbell? andy: all of these defendants absolutely had a big part in gathering resources, equipment, funding, allies to d.c. for january 6, which one of the defendants, joseph biggs, called civil war and revolution. they were ready for something big. the day after the fiery speech on the ellipse, they let the march from the capitol and where the first to breach the capitol itself. ms. hernandez is actually right in the sense that prosecutions are not the only aspect here that are going to tamp down our extremist crisis. we still have proud boys in the streets week after week along with neo-nazis, other militants. they still have support from the gop become a law enforcement,

right-wing media. until the gop and those other elements pull their soldiers out of the street and rebuff them, which they have not done since before january 6 or after, we will see this kind of thing continue. we will see men in makeshift body armor and weaponry outside of all sorts of american civic events. going forward, we are looking for an entire culture shift, not just prosecutions. amy: talk about who testified in the trial, from police officers who were attacked defending the capital, to fbi agents, to some of the proud boys themselves. andy: there were a number of police officers who were testifying in the trial, and a police officer who was expected to testify on behalf of the proud boys, an officer that had a relationship prior to january 6 with tarrio. he was gathering information from the extremist groups

amassing there. that relationship ended up being a little too close, so this officer ended up pleading the fifth and did not help the proud boys at all. but the government also secured some key testimony from other proud boys who pleaded guilty in lieu of cooperating with the government. one of them is named jeremy from north carolina, who had pleaded guilty to seditious conspiracy already. he testified that the proud boys were ready to take the reins of that march, on that movement heading to the capitol that day. another proud boy, matthew greene, called them the tip of the spear that day. prosecutors put together a really good picture of just how proper -- how much preparation went into january 6 that day. while the defense argues that the proud boys did not have a direct plan to storm the capitol

on january 6, prosecutors showed the jerry that that plan, that conspiracy could have come together the day of, at the march. they realize they were surrounded by all of these people, they realize the tools they had in front of them, and they use the mob to push forth into the capitol to upend the election. afterwards, there were mountains of evidence and testimony showing proud boys celebrating what they had done. that they had delay the certification of joe biden as president, and they were super happy about it. amy: the unindicted person here, that was brought up by both the defense and prosecution, was president trump. his famous stand back, stand down comment during the debate. what does this mean for him? andy: certainly, it shows that the president was fueling what

is now essentially a terrorist cell in the government's eyes. we know that after he sent stand back, stand down, the proud boys began gearing up for civil war. we know that trump and his right-wing media, the tucker carlsen's of this world i refuse to rebuff these guys, and they still believe they have the full support of the former president and their allies in the streets. this will not mean anything for trump in terms of charges being thrown his way, i don't believe. but it certainly adds an underline to the fact that trump has celebrated and tacitly supported these extremist elements since he took office. until the politicians around him, the right wing rebuffs them, we are seeing these extremist elements marching today regardless of the fact that their fellow proud boys and oath keepers are in prison.

amy: let me correct what i said. you corrected me. stand back and stand by is what president trump said. finally, what happens to the proud boys now? andy: unfortunately, the prosecutions are not enough. the proud boys leaders are probably going to go to jail for decades each. that will certainly put pressure on the organization, but these proud boys had always on resiliency when their leaders go to jail. they are working on the behest of the gop's grievances, not their organization, and not even donald trump anymore. they know what they have to do, they know their orders, commit violence for the cause, and they are doing it every single weekend. the organization is not going away. and our extremist crisis at large not going anywhere. we have to tell the gop, law

enforcement, right-wing media to pull these forces out of the streets or else we will continue to have this problem going into the next election and just into regular american civic life. amy: andy campbell, editor at huff post. his book is “we are proud boys: how a right wing street gang ushered in a new era of american extremism." next, an update on the rape and battery trial of donald trump. thursday, lawyers on both sides rested their cases. trump fosse lawyer did not call a single witness. he claims from ireland, where he was playing golf, that he will testify. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: “killing in the name of” by rage against the machine. this week it was announced that the band is being inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame. in a statement, the band thanked "all the activists, organizers, rebels and revolutionaries past, present and future who have inspired our art." this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. former president donald trump's legal team rested its case

thursday in the rape, battery, and defamation trial brought by writer e. jean carroll without trump's lawyer calling a single witness. carroll has accused trump of raping her in a dressing room at bergdorf goodman in 1990's. she was able to file the case against trump decades later because new york opened a one-year window on the statute of limitations for adult survivors of sexual assault. in addition to carroll, her legal team called two other witnesses to testify about trump's pattern of assaulting women. jessica leeds testified trump repeatedly groped her during a flight in the 1970s. this is leeds speaking in 2016. >> it was a real shock when all of a sudden his hands were all over me. when he started putting his hand up my skirt, that was it. that was it.

amy: journalist natasha stoynoff also took the stand and recounted how trump allegedly pushed her against a wall and forcibly kissed her during a 2005 interview at mar-a-lago. the jury was also shown the infamous “access hollywood” video in which trump brags about grabbing women's genitals without asking permission. >> you just start kissing her. i just start kissing them. like a magnet. when you are a star, they let you do it. you can do whatever you want. grab them by the pussy, you can do anything. amy: in a videotaped deposition shown to the jurors, trump said the story was "made up" and that he couldn't have raped e. jean carroll because she wasn't his "type.” he also said in a tape about the

lawyer questioning him, saying "you wouldn't be a choice of mine either, to be honest." former president trump waived his right to testify but on thursday he told reporters he may return from playing golf in ireland to testify and "confront" carroll. >> for a woman to have made a false accusation about me and have a judge who is extremely hostile, and i will go back and confront this woman. amy: when the judge heard this, he said that trump has until sunday at 5:00 to notify the judge if he will ask to re-open the case and testify. closing arguments are set for next week with jury deliberation starting tuesday. for more we are joined by deborah tuerkheimer, professor of law at northwestern university and the author of "credible: why we doubt accusers and protect abusers.” her new york times guest essay is headlined, "the importance of e. jean carroll's lawsuit

against donald trump.” welcome to democracy now! professor, if you could start by responding to what has happened so far in this case. this is a civil case. e. jean carroll could bring women who she didn't know who had accused donald trump of sexually assaulting them, two of them testified, and two of her friends whose she said she told amelia after she said donald trump raped her in the 1990's in a dressing room. deborah: right. it is important to say first, the testimony of an accuser is rarely enough to persuade the jury. that is true inside the courtroom, outside the courtroom. the idea of credibility discounting is a really important one. credibility discounting is rampant today, has been rampant throughout our history. for e. jean carroll to prevail,

she will need quite a bit of corroborating evidence, witnesses who support her story. that is what we have seen in this trial. as you mentioned, she brought in two women who hurt her describe this account very close in time to the incident alleged and then she brought in what we call pattern of practice witnesses, two women who describe sexually aggressive conduct on the part of donald trump that allows the jury to see this as part of a kind of pattern that he engages in. couple that with the access hollywood tape, and e. jean carroll's lawyers have presented a powerful case, that very much offers the jury support for e. jean carroll's story. amy: explain what it means that this is a civil trial. if he is found guilty, what does this mean?

also, at the same time that his lawyers said they rested their case, donald trump is playing golf in ireland and says he will testify. deborah: if e. jean carroll prevails, donald trump is not found guilty, per se, he is found liable for damages. because this is a civil case and not a criminal case. the burden of proof is lower than what we understand to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt. here, she has got to show by a preponderance of the evidence, meaning it is more likely than not that he raped her, as she said he did. if she convinces the jury, then the jury will award her presumably some damages. the same is true of her defamation claim. what is at issue is damages. donald trump does not need to testify. it is somewhat unusual, particularly in a civil case,

for a defendant not to present evidence, to tell his version of events. that is his right. he has made noise about coming back to court at the 11th hour. most commentators and observers are skeptical that he will actually do that. of course, donald trump is in protectable -- unpredictable and we will see what happens. amy: did it surprise you that not one witness was brought forward by the defense? deborah: yes. the defense had a witness list but ended up not calling anyone on that list. typically in a civil case there are two sides and both side will present some witnesses. particularly because the cross-examination of e. jean carroll, cross-examination of the other witnesses she called did not seem to go especially well. one might have expected the the defense to present their own evidence in the case but they

did not. amy: professor tuerkheimer, why could e. jean carroll bring this case decades later? explain the law that was just passed in new york. deborah: new york passed a groundbreaking law called the adult survivors act. the only state to have passed a law like it dealing with adult survivors of sexual violence is california. it went into effect in 2022 providing a look back window, saying there is no statute of limitations for claims. they can go as far as they want to go back as long as they were 18 or older during the time the incident alleged and they can bring those claims into court, sue for damages. amy: if you could talk about what this means, while you think

this trial is so important, as you talk about in your book. who is able to bring their cases forward? deborah: this is important because, in part, donald trump has come to represent for so many women and other people, male sexual entitlement. the book is really about a long-standing tradition in our culture of protecting powerful men from consequences of sexual assault and sexual harassment. here, we are seeing e. jean carroll come forward against all its, believing and hoping that the culture has shifted some, at least enough for her to be believed. that is not something that she felt like she would have been in the 1990's. but now, post #metoo, as that

movement moves along, we will see if she can get that kind of belief and a measure of justice. again, a civil case. this is not about criminal punishment, not being brought by the state, but for e. jean carroll to come forward and insist that it happened, that she is not to blame, and that it matters, is quite heroic, brave. all of us will be watching with great interest to see what this jury of nine individuals designs ultimately. amy: finally, how do you think this case fits into all of the other investigations of donald trump? it was not often included when we talked about the new york attorney investigating him, the georgia da investigating him, the federal government investigating him. deborah: interesting question. those other investigations focus

on donald trump's conduct as president, businessperson, as someone who has left the office of the presidency. these are all somewhat extraordinary and unusual kinds of misconduct that he has been alleged to have engaged in. what is interesting about this case, the kind of allegations that e. jean carroll is articulating is so sadly commonplace. it is so widely experienced by so many individuals in society. of course it is extraordinary that the allegations come against someone who has been the president, top contender for the republican nomination, but there is so much that is familiar about the allegation, the credibility discounting that has gone on in the case, that kept her quiet for so many decades. i think it is relatable to so many individuals.

in that way it is different from the other cases i think. amy: and the jury being anonymous? deborah: i think for fairly obvious reasons. the judge wanted the jury to remain anonymous, the jury itself wants to remain anonymous. these are the kinds of allegations -- we certainly don't want to see any tampering, any threats against this jury. this is a high-profile case, the highest profile case of this sort that we have seen in our history, and it's important that the jury can do their job. amy: deborah tuerkheimer, professor of law at northwestern university and the author of "credible: why we doubt accusers and protect abusers.” we will link to your new york times op-ed "the importance of , e. jean carroll's lawsuit against donald trump." coming up, freedom to learn. protest held across the country against efforts to ban books and antiracism education in schools. in florida, 14 defendants were

arrested staging a peaceful sit in inside the offices of republican governor and possible presidential candidate ron desantis. back with her in a second. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this joy by resistance revival chorus. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we and today show by looking at freedom to learn. protests were held across the united states against right-wing efforts to ban books and antiracism education in schools. in florida, 14 cream defenders were arrested for staging a peaceful sit in inside the offices of republican governor ron desantis and possible presidential candidate. also protesting new legislation banning abortion after six weeks. denying gender affirming care for you, rolling back in control, banning discussions of lgbtq issues in schools and cracking down on immigrants and unions. >> we are going to be here until ron desantis dares to come back

to his office to meet with the people of florida have been directly affected by his nonsense and hate. and his pandering and petty b.s. amy: that was nailah summers-polite, co-director of dream defenders and among the first to be arrested during wednesday's occupation of ron desantis' office. she is joining us now from miami. also with us is professor kimberle crenshaw, executive director of the african american policy forum, prof. of law at ucla and columbia university. she is joining us from new orleans. welcome to you both. nailah, let's begin with you. explain why you were in ron desantis' office, why did you get arrested? nailah: ron desantis has been on a rampage with our florida legislature attacking the rights of all the people in florida that do not look or think

like him. it's been an onslaught of attacks on teachers, union members, it has just been relentless. it is the last week of legislative session. today is the last day of our legislative session. we could not end it without taking courageous action and being heard. amy: talk about the various bills, one after another made into law that most concerned you from reproductive rights to anti-lgbtq legislation, to issues of what teachers can teach in school. nailah: desantis has been going after working-class people in florida, people of color, since he first started in office. he has been turning the dial, turning up the hate every year.

the six-week abortion ban, taking books out of classrooms of children, expanding don't say gay until 12th grade, they cited the fugitive slave act for a version of the immigration bill that they were trying to pass this year. it is just an diluted -- undi luted hate, and the session has been all about that, attacking so may people in his quest to run for president. it is concerning. attacking people, really putting people at risk in the state of florida. it was time to do a little extra, take a little action. amy: professor crenshaw, if you can put the florida action, which was more than 100 actions across the country, into context

, while you helped to organize this nationwide protest this week. kimberle: as we have heard, ron desantis and many others in the anti-woke campaign, have gone after a number of constituencies. they have gone after the entire infrastructure that has been developed over the last 50 years to actually make equality a real aspiration. that includes the ideas around the quality, the very idea that there is something called structural racism. the idea that intersectional forms of discrimination still shape the futures of all too many people. time has come to draw a line in the sand. too many people have been reading about this issue but didn't know how to get involved in it. when the college board took the

opportunity after the george floyd murder to offer a course on african-american studies, to ride the wave of demand for frameworks for people to understand how after the passage of civil rights law's, we can all watch a man be choked out by the police on the street. they were driving the possibility for a new course. at the same time, this was driving the anti-woke cabal, like desantis, creating laws to battle these ideas in public education. these two forces came together when the college board decided to excise all of these ideas that were in demand from the course after ron desantis said that these were unacceptable ideas. too many americans finally decided that it was unacceptable to allow this censorship to go forward without being heard from. may 3 was the beginning, the day

of action where 150 activities took place all across the country, including two protests at the college board. it is just the beginning. at freedomtolearn.net, people can learn why it is a threat to our democracy and how they can get involved. amy: i want to talk about the wall street journal expose that revealed through emails that the college board's changes to its ap african-american studies curriculum did not include input from members of its development committee. the article quotes a university of kansas professor on the african-american studies of element committees saying "we all know this is a blatant lie. the major changes that occurred came from my unit, and not once did ap speak with me about these changes. instead it ran through

revisions, pretending it was business as usual, and that further added insult to injury by attempting to gaslight the public with faux innocence." explain the significance of this expose and all that it revealed. kimberle: that was a letter that basically confirmed what anybody, who could actually read, really knew. the materials that were taken out, including intersectionality, black feminism, the idea of systemic marginalization, these ideas were exactly the ideas that desantis said were not educationally valuable, did not pass muster in florida's anti-woke legislative terrain.

the fact that the very things that the santos did not like, the fact that those were taken out was met by the college board saying, well, we did it with consultation with our experts. some of the things that we took out, we took out because the ideas had been so assaulted by critique and attack, they were no longer educationally valuable. you could tell they were not telling the truth. but this was the smoking gun. this was somebody on the committee saying, we all know they were not being truthful, and we were basically being thrown out to justify it. the real question is whether there will be any accountability for this. what made the college board think that they can basically say that desantis, and trying to abide by anti-wokeness, had nothing to do with this when they knew there was a paper trail that would show otherwise?

it is telling us that the same lack of accountability for taking black lives also potentially applies to taking our voices and responses to this history of our lives being taken. that is why so many people were willing to say not on our watch, and enough of this. we will hold dissenters accountable and also institutions like college board accountable, as well. amy: it was your work on intersectionality -- you have really coined this term that has become so powerful, licking sony different movements -- that was moved out of the required curriculum of the african-american advanced placement course. your response to that? kimberle: we have to ask why is it that the ideas of the anti-woke cabal are so upset about, are ideas that people have found incredibly useful. people all over the world use the basic concept of

intersectionality to make sense out of the facts. a lot of people say it is a concept, it is a term. why do we need grammar? why do we need rules to help us understand how to make meaning out of random phenomena? that is what structural inequality helps people understand. that is what black feminism helps people understand. taking out these ideas takes out our ability to analyze the situation that we have inherited, and importantly, to understand, organize strategies for transformation. if they want to take it away, it is because it is important. just like they want to take our votes away because that is important. they want to take our voices away because that is important. that tells us where we have to take the fight. amy: i want to turn to ron desantis telling reporters in florida why he opposed the original ap african american

studies course. then i want to get your response, nailah. >> this course on black history, what are one of the lessons about? queer theory. who would say that an important part of black history is queer theory? that is somebody pushing an agenda on our kids. when you see stuff about intersectionality, abolishing prisons, that is a political agenda. amy: last april, florida governor ron desantis signed into law house bill 7, also known as the stop woke act, which he claimed will take on critical race theory in the workplace and in schools. >> we believe an important component of freedom in the state of florida is the freedom from having oppressive, ideologies imposed upon you without your consent. whether it be in the classroom or in the workplace. we decided to do something about it.

amy: nailah summers-polite, you got arrested over his use this week because you were protesting in his office. your response? nailah: it should tell us what kind of man ron desantis is. he is unabashedly hateful. he is doing his best to split up into silos. it is like he has never heard of bayard rustin, so many black, queer pioneers. he thinks it makes it easier to pick us off if we are fighting in silos. what we were doing in his office on wednesday, we were made up of all the kinds of people that he has been attacking, queer, black, immigrants, people who need abortions, teachers, union members. we are not going to let him

split us up or slio us off. as dr. crenshaw was saying about intersectionality, that is exactly it. we need a multiracial movement to beat people like ron desantis and the greg abbott's and the sarah huckabee sanders', all of these new confederate anti-woke people. this is what we were doing. on his check to the white house, he is spewing this nonsense. we have to fight back against it, come together, and really resist this kind of rhetoric. amy: dr. crenshaw, do you think people are taking what is happening in the country, with the missouri legislature voting that they may defund the libraries. in texas, a judge saying you have to keep the books on the shelves or we will shutdown the library system.

how many books are being taken off the shelves in the country? do you think progressive forces, perhaps a majority of people in this country, are taking this seriously enough? kimberle: i think they finally are. one thing that we know is that the majority really is on our side. americans do not like censorship, the idea that there are certain things that they are told that they are not allowed to read. they especially do not like being told that they are fighting indoctrination. there is indoctrination at foot in saying that these are ideas that are so dangerous, so divisive to the republic, that the autocrats can dictate whether we can engage in them. the whole point of academic freedom, education, is to present material for people to engage in, to develop critical thinking about the world in which they live. yet, the desantis' and the

anti-woke cabal had the exact opposite orientation. i have no worries whatsoever about people being exposed to ideas that are critical to intersectionality or critical race theory or structural racism. i know the ideas are strong and powerful enough to survive debate. but when the response to ideas that they don't like, including democracy itself, is to try and suppress these ideas, that is when we have a problem. now many americans are waking up to it. it was slow. they thought it was just about critical race theory, without understanding that critical race theory was the entire infrastructure that allowed people to identify racial inequality, racial power as a problem that still undermines our democracy. now that college board doing what it did, people are saying that the fight is against the anti-woke cabal and alsoitutns e

putting their money where their mouth is. you cannot be pro-freedom education and pro-anti-woke at the same time. the lines are drawn and they have to choose a side. amy: 10 seconds. dr. crenshaw, i saw you tuesday night. we did not know at the time what was happening at broadway lafayette subway stop, but jordin nearly was killed by another passenger. he was black, unhoused. you tweeted, being black and poor in america should not be punishable by vigilante death. kimberle: and that is exactly the question about how the lack of accountability for taking black lives extends to this current moment. we have to worry not only about police officers taking our lives but individuals thinking they are empowered enough to exact discipline, lethal punishment

for the possibility that they might be in fear of someone. he needed help, rather than death. amy: kimberle crenshaw, thank you so much for being with us. pr