05/17/23 05/17/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> everyone agreed default may be the worst outcome, horrible situation for america and america's families, but we also agreed that we need to pass a bipartisan bill with bipartisan support in both chambers. i asked speaker mccarthy if he agreed with that and he said yes.

and his bill is not a bipartisan bill. amy: the u.s. comes closer to defaulting on its debt for the first time ever as republicans continue to push for sweeping budget cuts. some democrats like aoc have vowed to push back on nearly any significant concessions. we will speak with the american prospect editor robert kuttner about what he is calling "the budget farce: a travesty in two acts." then the u.s. should be a force for peace in the world. that is the headline of a full-page "new york times" ad signed by high-ranking national officials for diplomatic end to the russia-ukraine war. >> we signal to the president and members of congress that the time is now to stop this war and bring it to a peaceful end. we will speak with dennis fritz. then 38 years ago, philadelphia

dropped a bomb on the house of the black radical group known as move. >> i have just been advised we have new video of the episode that apparently ended we think ended the move situation, the dropping of an incendiary device. let's take a look at this. 5:27. there is the explosion. a very dramatic explosion that occurs 30 seconds and really rips into the compound. amy: we will speak with mike africa, jr. who played in the move house as a child before it was bombed about how the city seized the house by eminent domain and why he is trying to buy it back. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman.

in north carolina, republican lawmakers have banned almost all abortions after 12 weeks of pregnancy by overriding governor roy cooper's veto of the abortion ban. protesters inside the state capitol began chanting "shame, shame, shame" tuesday night after the north carolina senate and house approved the ban. >> with 72 having voting in the affirmative, the motion carries. the house has overridden the governor's veto and the bill becomes law. >> shame! shame! amy: republican lawmakers in north carolina secured a vetoproof majority in april and a longtime democrat tricia collins defected and became a republican. north carolina democratic state representative julie von haefen blasted the new abortion ban. >> it certainly feels to many

people in this chamber and watching tonight that this bill is being rushed through because members know this devastating ban on abortion is deeply unpopular. you have already heard so many of this tonight about how this bill will hurt women in our state, how it will hurt business, how it will hurt families, how it will hurt women coming here from other states to seek health care, so why are we doing this? why are you so determined to support the popular will of our state? amy: meanwhile, in nebraska, conservative lawmakers have advanced a bill to ban abortions after 12 weeks of pregnancy while also banning gender affirming medical care for trans youth. nebraska state senator machaela cavanaugh, who made headlines for an earlier filibuster to stall the anti-trans bill, criticized lawmakers for pushing through the new legislation. >> women will die. children are dying. it is your fault.

it is your fault. and you are allowing it to happen. you do literally have blood on your hands. if you vote for this, you will have buckets and buckets of blood on your hands. amy: voters went to the polls tuesday in pennsylvania, kentucky, and florida. kentucky attorney general daniel cameron, who is a close ally of mitch mcconnell, won the republican primary for kentucky governor. he will face democratic governor andy beshear in november. in jacksonville, florida, democrat donna deegan pulled off a shocking upset over her republican rival to become the city's next mayor. jacksonville had been the most populous city in the country with a republican mayor. she will be the first democratic mayor of jacksonville. in philadelphia, cherelle parker won a crowded democratic mayoral primary. parker had campaigned in part on hiring more police officers while embracing the police tactic known as stop and frisk. in the heavily democratic city,

parker appears set to become the first woman and first black woman to run philadelphia. president biden has announced he is cutting short his trip to asia as negotiations continue over lifting the debt ceiling in order to avoid the united states defaulting on its debt for the first time. on tuesday, biden met with house speaker kevin mccarthy and other congressional leaders at the white house but little progress was reported. mccarthy continues to push for sweeping budget cuts and new work requirements for recipients of the supplemental nutrition assistance program known as snap. we will have more on the debt talks after headlines. president biden is flying to japan today for a meeting of the g7 in hiroshima. the white house has announced he will return to washington after the summit instead of going to papua new guinea and australia as planned. biden was supposed to meet with leaders from pacific island nations and the so-called quad. biden would have been the first u.s. president to ever visit papua new guinea. at the g7, leaders are expected

to discuss imposing new sanctions on russia, including a ban on russian gas imports through pipelines connecting to germany and poland. biden will become just the second u.s. president, after barack obama, to visit hiroshima where a u.s. nuclear attack in 1945 killed 140,000 people and seriously injured another 100,000. ahead of the talks, the nobel-prize winning international campaign to abolish nuclear weapons called on g7 member nations to unequivocally condemn any and all threats to use nuclear warheads and to sign the treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons. they were joined in their call by survivors of the 1945 u.s. nuclear attack on hiroshima, like 85-year-old teruko yahata. >> i want them, the g7 leaders come to seriously acknowledge the inhumanity of nuclear weapons. these are weapons that can

destroy humankind. i want them to strongly feel these are terrible things and they have to be abolished. amy: a chinese special envoy has arrived in ukraine as part of a chinese-led effort to end the 15-month-old war. the envoy, li hui, is expected to also visit russia, poland, france, and germany. meanwhile, south african president cyril ramaphosa has announced that leaders from six african nations will soon visit moscow and kyiv on a peace mission. ramaphosa said he recently spoke with russian president vladimir putin and ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. >> my discussions with the two leaders demonstrated that they're both ready to receive african leaders and to have a discussion on how this conflict can be brought to an end. amy: in other news on the war, russia is claiming it has destroyed a u.s.-made patriot

missile defense system in kyiv that had been used earlier this week to intercept numerous russian strikes, including six hypersonic missiles. u.s. and ukrainian officials have admitted the patriot missile defense system had been damaged but said it was not destroyed. meanwhile, the head of ukraine's supreme court has been dismissed after he was detained as part of a probe into corruption and bribery. a new report from the costs of war project at brown university is estimating at least 4.5 million people have died as a consequence of the wars in afghanistan, iraq, pakistan, syria, yemen, libya, and somalia after the united states launched its so called war on terror following the september 11 attacks. the report also estimates 7.6 million children are suffering today from acute malnutrition in these countries. in ecuador, lawmakers have begun an impeachment process against president guillermo lasso, who's

accused of corruption and embezzlement in a scheme involving a state-owned oil transportation company. ecuador's national assembly held its first hearing tuesday where lasso addressed lawmakers and denied involvement in the scheme, which opponents of lasso say cost ecuador millions in losses. meanwhile, there's speculation lasso could move to invoke a constitutional power that would allow him to dissolve the legislature enrolled by decree. -- and ruled by decree. the u.s. forest service has approved a key permit for the proposed $6.6 billion mountain valley pipeline to run through part of the jefferson national forest in virginia and west virginia. conservation and climate groups have been trying to block the fracked gas pipeline for years. in a statement, the wilderness society said -- "the forest service has bent to the will of the oil and gas industry, and is placing fossil fuel profits above our environment and public safety." one key backer of the pipeline has been west virginia democratic senator joe manchin. the department of education in

florida is investigating a fifth grade teacher for showing her class an animated disney movie that includes a gay character. the teacher said she picked the film "strange world" as part of a lesson on ecosystems, plants, and animals, but a parent filed a complaint after learning one of the characters in the film was gay. the teacher, jenna barbee, talked about the investigation in a video on tiktok. >> the reason i was heard in is because one of the students were was a school board members daughter. that school board member is on a rampage to get rid of every form of representation at our school. she even spent days this past week going to all the high schools to get rid of anything that has to do with representation whatsoever. she has admin escort her to a teacher's classroom that had a sticker of a black man and white men holding hands and the white hand had a different color fingernail for every finger.

the school board member called the department of education on me for indoctrination before ever coming to our school to talk with me or admin about the situation. amy: education officials say the screening of the film might have violated florida's so-called don't say gay law. which bans teachers from talking about sexual orientation and gender identity. new research into health care inequities in the united states shows higher mortality rates among black communities resulted in a staggering 1.63 million excess deaths in the past two -- 20 years compared to the white population. one study says the covid-19 pandemic's disproportionate impact on black communities erased years of progress in attempting to close the health care gap. black people are also far more likely to die at a younger age than white people due to the impacts of longstanding discrimination in access to health insurance, medical care, housing, employment, and other living necessities.

the justice department is facing calls to investigate donald trump's attorney and former new york city mayor rudy giuliani for allegedly plotting to sell presidential pardons. on monday, a former associate of giuliani's, noelle dunphy, filed a $10 million lawsuit against him for sexual assault. dunphy also accused giuliani of scheming to sell pardons for $2 million, to be split between him and donald trump. who would grant the pardons. in 2021, the cia whistleblower john kiriakou also revealed an aide to giuliani had told him a pardon would cost $2 million. kiriakou appeared on democracy now! in 2021 and talked about meeting giuliani at the trump hotel in washington during the summer of 2020. >> one of his aides who was there at the meeting then said to me, rudy does not talk about pardons, up to talk to me. and he going to ask you for $2 million. and i laughed. i said, i don't have to lean

dollars. i said, are you out of your mind? why would i spend $2 million to recover a $700,000 pension? that does not make any sense. and i dropped it. but he said that is what the price was. amy: and in news from capitol hill, california democratic congressmember robert garcia has introduced a resolution to expel republican george santos, who was indicted last week by the justice department for wire fraud, money laundering, and theft of public funds. garcia introduced the resolution through a process called a privileged motion in an attempt to force the house to vote on it within two days. santos would be expelled if two-thirds of the house supported the motion. in a statement, garcia said -- "george santos is a fraud and a liar, and he needs to be expelled by the house. republicans now have a chance to demonstrate to americans that an admitted criminal should not serve in the house of representatives." the advocate newspaper has noted

garcia is the first out gay immigrant elected to congress while santos is the first gay republican elected to congress while publicly out. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. with the united states just two weeks away from possibly defaulting on its debt for the first time ever, president biden says he is cutting short his asia trip in order to continue negotiations with congressional leaders over lifting the debt ceiling. pres. biden: is disappointing republicans have not been willing to discuss bruising revenues but -- raising revenues but it should not stop congress from avoiding default. i've made clear default is not an option. america pays its debts, pays its bills and will be plenty of time to debate the policy differences. but we have never defaulted on our debt and we never will. amy: on tuesday, biden met with house speaker kevin mccarthy and other congressional leaders at the white house but little progress was reported.

this is mccarthy. >> the great thing about this is in our bill, not only are we able to grow our economy, we get more people into the workforce, lift people out of poverty by work requirements, it helps the supply chain, makes us less dependent upon china, lowers the energy costs which helps with the environment around the world, lowers the co2 emissions globally. amy: republican house speaker mccarthy continues to push for sweeping budget cuts, as well as new work requirements for recipients of snap. that is the supplemental nutrition assistance program. democratic senator john fetterman said tuesday he "cannot in good conscience support a debt ceiling proposal that pushes people into poverty." democratic congressmember alexandria ocasio-cortez said biden can "expect pushback on nearly any significant concession." meanwhile, democratic congressmember jamaal bowman of new york said --

"i'm frustrated that we even have to engage in these conversations because it gives credibility to what republicans are trying to do, which is pretty much hold the global economy hostage to fake as if they are fiscally responsible when they're not." well, for more on all of this, we are joined by robert kuttner, the co-founder and co-editor of the american prospect. he wrote a piece tuesday headlined "the budget farce: a travesty in two acts." welcome back to democracy now! start off by talking about where the budget talks are, what not raising the debt ceiling would mean, and why you're calling it a farce. >> is great to be back with you. let's back up two steps. on january 19, the united states technically reached the congressionally approved limit in the national debt. this happens all the time. due to a bunch of gimmicks, they were able to keep paying

interest on the debt through the month of may. june 1 is generally d-day when the government -- the whole global economy explodes because there's about $20 trillion worth of treasury bonds out there in the world that anchor the world economy. most people think this is just inconceivable. so for the first 97 days, biden did not negotiate with mccarthy because mccarthy had not passed a bill. the white house calculated the republicans were so split, that the republicans would not be able to pass her version of a budget. mccarthy made all kinds of deals with the far, far, far right and past is kind of crazy bill that basically ties in increase in the debt ceiling to budget cuts of trillions of dollars, about

22% of domestic spending. this is a complete nonstarter from the point of view of virtually every democrat in the house or senate. this put biden in a bit of a tactical blind. do you continue to say, this is crazy and i'm not going to negotiate? or do you go to the motions of negotiating because wall street and the media and some corporate democrats are saying, well, at least you have to try in good faith to see if you can reach accommodation because obviously this is a full scan, a farce, a charade. my criticism of biden -- i should say i've been relatively favorable to biden. he was more progressive and a lot of his appointees that we expected. but biden is blowing up the tactics because he is mixing his message. on the one hand he is saying this is nuts and we are not going to negotiate. on the other hand, succumbing to the pressure to look like he is negotiating, going to the motions of negotiating, and you

can't have it both ways. bowman is right, there's no way democrats are going to vote for 22% cuts in domestic spending. by the way, is not just snap, it is medicaid. medicaid. mccarthy once work requirements for medicaid. picture summit in a medicaid nursing home, which is the biggest single source of medicaid outlets -- sorry, grandma, are 90 years old but you're going to have to go out and work. this is nuts. it would be much better strategically for biden to keep pointing out how not it is. amy: i want to read from "new york times" columnist paul krugman who slammed democrats writing -- "as soon as republicans took control of the house last november, it was obvious that they would try to take the economy hostage by refusing to raise the federal debt limit. after all, that's what they did in 2011 -- and hard as it may be to believe, the tea party republicans were sober and sane compared to the maga crew. so it was also obvious that the

biden administration needed a strategy to head off the looming crisis. more and more, however, it looks as if there never was a strategy beyond wishful thinking." they're talking about, we are not linking one to the other, these are two separate conversations. what do you say to that, bob kuttner? >> two things. number one, in this has been very widely reported and biden is mixing his message on this as well, you can invoke the 14th amend it because after the civil war, it specifies the debt of the united states shall not be questioned. that was put in there to prevent some future congress from repudiating the civil war debt if people were family to dixie ever got control of the u.s. congress, which tragically they did. but that is very broad language. it was not until 1917 during

world war i that congress even contrived this ritual of having a separate vote on the debt ceiling. the pre-existing premise was that if something has been negotiated and obligations have been incurred, it is automatic the debt is increased. the betting is that if biden were to invoke the 14th amendment clause and say, well, we're going to keep on paying bills and if the republicans what to sue us go ahead, people have looked carefully at supreme court precedents think that at least five members of even this supreme court would uphold biden . so unfortunately, biden has spoken out about sides of his mouth on this. he said, yeah, he would consider it but it would take too long. in fact, that is not true. there would be an expedited supreme court review. janet yellen has said that would

cause a constitutional crisis. so biden can control the messaging of his own team and he can't even control his own messaging, which sort of reinforces the view that maybe he is too old to run for president again but that is another conversation. there's another part of this which is the incredibly stupid precedent of 2011 where two separate things were mixed up, conflated by republicans -- the issue of increasing the debt ceiling. again, that is normally routine. and the issue of using that leverage to extract draconian budget cuts stuff the republicans really rolled the democrats that time. in 2011, they pass the budget control act which had 10 years of mandatory cuts with a sequestered system to enforce automatic cuts if congress cannot agree on the details.

here's the absolute worst part. the emissary of the obama administration who negotiated this terrible deal with his old friend mitch mcconnell was a guy named joe biden, the vice president at the time. so there are two ways of looking at where biden is now. either because he loves to cut deals, he is in danger of recapitulating, repeating the really dumb strategy of 2011, or you could say, well, things are different now, he is president, yes $5 trillion of spending -- he has $5 trillion of spending and if he can figure out how to keep his line straight, maybe we'll hang top. amy: treasury secretary janet yellen dismissed the platinum coin to keep u.s. from defaulting on the national debt and said the federal reserve is unlikely to consider it. in the "wall street journal"

interview this past january, yellen said -- "it truly is not by any means to be taken as a given that the fed would do it, and i think especially with something that's a gimmick. the fed is not required to accept it, there's no requirement on the part of the fed. it's up to them what to do." is this a gimmick? >> me put it this way, it is a tactic. i think invoking the 14th amend it is probably a better tactic. given the crazy things the fed has done with interest rates and with failing to regulate banks, i would not trust the fed. i would rather see president biden invoke the 14th amendment. i think that would pass muster with the supreme court and solve the crisis for now. at the other thing i pointed out in this article, even if we get through june 1 deadline for

increasing the national debt, the next installment of this two-part farce is the physical budget negotiations. the current budget expires september 30 2023 and then you have to negotiate next year's budget. the problem is democrats control the house -- the senate, very narrowly. they barely control the senate. of course, republicans barely control the house. given the fact he had divided control of congress, it is almost certain there will be some budget cuts in the 2024 budget. now, as somebody who thinks bill clinton was one of the worst things ever to happen to the democratic party and the country, it pains me to credit bill clinton for anything. but in 1995, 1996 when newt gingrich was speaker and the republicans played this game holding the debt ceiling hostage and then shutting down the government for six days and then

15 days, clinton hung tough. it was gingrich who had to cave in. he eventually lost his speakership. the fact gingrich made a full of himself by shutting down the government actually helped clinton get reelected. that is the role model. if the president hang stuff and lets the government do stupid things like threatening the collapse of the world economy for shutting down the government, the republicans take the blame for that. i just hope when this -- if biden gets through june, he is going to face a version of this again in october, although granted shutting down the government is not quite as catastrophic as shutting down the world economy, but i hope he keeps his line straight and if he can hang as tough as clinton did, maybe this will rebound to the benefit of the democrats and the budget cuts will not be all that catastrophic. amy: finally, if you could

underscore -- we just have a minute -- how this connects and deepens inequality in this country. >> all of the elements that republicans want to cut from the budget are things that make this a slightly better country. everything from section 8 housing aid to medicaid to food stamps to college aid, i mean come the so-called discretionary domestic programs, these are the things that make the country a slightly less unequal place. as you would expect, that is the stuff the republicans are targeting for the deepest cuts. amy: robert kuttner, thank you for being with us co-founder and , co-editor of the american prospect. we will link to your piece "the budget farce: a travesty in two acts." bob kuttner's latest book is titled "going big: fdr's legacy, biden's new deal, and the struggle to save democracy."

robert kuttner is also a professor at brandeis university's heller school. next step, the u.s. should be a force for peace in the world. that is the headline of a full-page "new york times" add signed by 15 former high-ranking national security officials calling for the diplomatic end to the russia-ukraine war. we will speak with the lead signatory dennis fritz, retired command chief master sergeant of the u.s. air force. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "maps" by yeah yeah yeahs. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. a group of former high-ranking national security officials published an open letter in "the new york times" calling for diplomatic end to the russia-ukraine war. it was signed by 15 retired military officials and national security experts, including

ronald reagan's ambassador to the ussr. they are all part of the eisenhower media network. the headline reads "the u.s. should be a force for peace in the world." it begins, the russia ukraine war has been in unmitigated disaster. hundreds of thousands have been killed or wounded, and millions have been displaced. of our mental and economic destruction have been incalculable. future devastation could be exponentially greater as nuclear powers creep ever closer toward open war. for more we're joined by the lead signatory on this open letter to president biden published in "the new york times" yesterday. dennis fritz is director at eisenhower media network. he's a retired command chief master sergeant of the u.s. air force. welcome to democracy now! it is great to have you with us. if you can talk about the origins of this letter and why you felt it was so important to publish.

>> first of all, thank you for having me. that is a perfect and most important segway question you could ask. for us who have been around the military and national security business for many years, we thought it was so important that we purchase this ad. we took a small budget we have and we decided that we should put this out there so we could openly get the message to president biden and his administration, along with congress, that we must bring this war to an end immediately. as you have already discussed about the number of killings that have happened so far, i can only see it continuing. as we continue to introduce more weapons, it only causes more death and destruction. to be quite frank, this disturbs me that at the expense of the

ukrainian people, we are fighting a proxy war with russia to weaken them. at the same time, the death and destruction is occurring in ukraine and its people. that is devastating. we could not sit back and allow that to happen, as you mentioned. we have a former ambassador to russia that tried to alert administrations of the past that expanding nato, that is a security interest of russia. we have a tendency to not empathize with others security needs. there's been a lot done to prevent this from actually happening. amy:'s on now russia has invaded ukraine. it has been a year. what you think the terms of the negotiation should be? our latest news in the headlines of the chinese special envoy has arrived in ukraine as part of a

chinese led effort to end the 15-month-old war. xi jinping just spoke with the loader zelenskyy the first time and they set up this meeting. do you all. hope for that? what should be the terms of these negotiations? >> amy, that would be up to the ukrainian leadership and president zelenskyy, along with negotiating with russia. let me say and negotiating -- in negotiations, you want to guess you're always good have to give up something. the first it would be to stop the fighting and then let's listen to see what russia's needs and security needs are. i think that is what led us here. russia was expressing their security needs of us expanding closer to the borders of russia. look at it as you look at the

piece that we purchased yesterday -- if you look at a map that we provided, if you back an animal up against a wall , it is going to react, it will defend itself. as i mentioned earlier, we have a tendency to not empathize with the security needs of others. we had a hypothetical map of what would it look like if we had russian munitions, personnel in canada, mexico. we would lose our minds. that is what russia is against right now. first step in the negotiation process should be actually listening to russia. maybe -- they have been trying to warn us for years nato is a concern of theirs. the first thing we have to come to the table is to actually listen to russia's needs and then whatever decisions -- one

of the biggest things right now is the region where we have russian-speaking ukrainians. those needs must be addressed. there's been a war going on there for the longest and russia tried to stay out of it with the minsk accords and tried to abide by it. the ukrainian government at the time was still bombarding the donbass region. that has to be discussed. the issue of crimea will need to be discussed. the black sea is an important part of the world for russia, so -- the first step will be to sit down at the table and have an opportunity to listen to what russia's security needs as well as ukrainians needs and also nato. amy: i want to go to pentagon papers was of lord daniel ellsberg who we spoke to earlier this month about his deep concerns about the risk of

nuclear war is the tensions between the u.s., russia, and china intensify. >> we can send direct planes that ukrainians can't yet operate, tanks that they cannot yet operate. the tendency to send americans to operate those tanks will be very strong along with that. i can only hope that biden will be pressed by large part of the public not to involve u.s. directly war and that and to be pursuing negotiations which is currently absolutely -- rejecting the idea of negotiations. a belief we can do less bad by striking first and if we strike a second, it is what confronts us in ukraine with a real possibility of a nuclear war, of coming out of this conflict.

in other words, most life on earth, not all, most life on earth being extinguished as a matter of the control of crimea or the donbas or taiwan. that is insane. amy: that is daniel ellsberg, perhaps the world's most famous whistleblower who released the pentagon papers to the press, just diagnosed with an operable pancreatic cancer, said he absolutely wanted to discuss this issue that this was the message she wants to put out to the world at this point in his life is the threat -- and people think of massive nuclear weapons. he said if the low-level tactical weapons that are just as dangerous, low-level tactical their weapons. command chief dennis fritz, your response? >> you said tactical weapons. that can escalate to intercontinental ballistic missiles as well.

the escalation is key. ellsberg, we have been in communication with him. we even coordinated and talked with him about our letter. amy, i must tell you, i spent a few years at the time space command where our land-based missile systems were under the commander who i advised at that time. also as part of an additional duty, advised to the nato commander. at the nato, the norad commander. i can tell you, i have it in and out of the pentagon since the age of 22. i am now 66 years old. the majority of my life has been in and out of the pentagon. this is probably the most fearful i have ever been with a nuclear escalation. we're talking about two nuclear powers. we are talking about a country, that country being russia, who for years we have tried to ameliorate by way of us we won

the cold war, we're the only superpower. we do as we please. i can tell you right now, russia loves their country as well. i must be quite frank again, we are the only country to ever come ever use an atomic weapon or nuclear weapon on another country. i don't think russia will sit back and let us be the first to do that again. i take their threat of not taking off their plate the use of nuclear weapons -- i take that seriously. that is why, once again, we thought it was so important for us to send that open letter out to the president. our hope is to educate the american public so they can see how we got to this point. amy: after this open letter that you have published in "the new york

times," this full-page, the u.s. should be a force of peace in the world, did other national security officials get in touch with you? >> yes. we had others to get in touch with us. i will tell you, amy, to be quite frank, some of those individuals did not think we went far enough in our message of concern about escalation to nuclear warfare. i will tell you, we have been approached by some to say, that is fear mongering. i don't think it is fear mongering. in fact, i want you to be fearful for the fact that we are to that point. can you imagine a few months back, we had an errant missile to land in poland. it could be an accident. it could be something on purpose. how long do you think russia is going to allow weapons to be

entered into ukraine? let me mention something else that daniel mentioned. i find it amazing what i had said earlier that ukraine is fighting a proxy war on behalf of us. think about this for a moment. here it is we're introducing some of these weapons,, by the way, ukraine, there will be no physical weapons that you can strike deep into russia. we won't allow that. why won't we allow that? well, that could escalate. that could escalate to the point where russia -- russia gets to the point of, listen, you're introducing these weapons that are hitting deep into our country and we're not going to allow that stuff that is a threat to our national security. so all bets are off now so this can become an all out war. russia is not going to lose this war. it becomes a threat to their country and their leadership. no doubt in your mind, no doubt

in my mind that if it came to that, they will use a nuclear weapon. amy: are you particularly concerned because of the drone attack on the kremlin? it is not clear who was involved with this, who was behind this drone attack. >> that's true. you always have disinformation in warfare. but that is exactly what i'm talking about. it could be an accident. it could be a white flag. something that would not expect -- let's say for instance, some said, russia, i don't think so. let's say it was russia. they gave them the rationale for war. let me mention one other thing as we keep prolonging this war. one thing we are concerned about as well as we prolong this war, guess what? that is more death and destruction in ukraine. you could get to the point where there will be no country for there to be peace because russia, if they so desired,

could destroy every piece of infrastructure in ukraine. do we want to see that? amy: you were the chief signatory on this and the force behind this as eisenhower media network. explain what that is. >> the eisenhower media network, we came together -- i think the threat that brought us together was the iraq war. definitely based on a lie. you saw what we did to a rack, destroyed -- iraq destroy, that country, millions of lives lost. thousands injured for life. we came together to try to keep us out of unnecessary wars, to keep us out of that imperialistic ideology that some of us in our country have. that was what brought us together. you think about the expansion of

nato, when he think about these continuous wars, there's somebody benefiting from that. our goal is to limit that benefit of the military-industrial complex, which eisenhower warned us about. that is what we got the name from. liz to limit wars, to limit the benefits of war. as you know, that money we give ukraine for weapons, that money is going somewhere, somebody is making those weapons and it is beneficial to them. i don't think the lives of people should be beneficial for those that benefit from war. amy: dennis fritz, thank you for being with us, director of the eisenhower media network. retired command chief master sergeant of the u.s. air force. speaking to us from washington, d.c. next up, 38 years ago, philadelphia dropped a bomb on the house of the black radical group known as move.

then they seized the home, turned it into a police substation before selling it to developers. we will speak with a second-generation move member who is trying to buy the house back. back in 30 seconds. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "save a city" by mischief brew about the move bombing. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we turn to an update on a story democracy now! has followed for years, this past saturday, may 13, marked the 38th anniversary of the day the city of philadelphia bombed its own citizens. on that day in 1985, police surrounded the home of move, a black radical liberation organization that was defying orders to vacate. police flooded the home with water, filled the house with tear gas, and blasted the house with automatic weapons -- all failing to dislodge the residents. finally, police dropped a bomb on the house from a helicopter, which 11 people were killed.

six adults and five children. the fire burned an entire city block to the ground, destroying over 60 homes. this is how the bombing was initially reported in philadelphia on wcau-tv. >> i've just been invited to we have new videotape of the episode that apparently ended, we think ended, the move situation, the dropping of an incendiary device. let's take a careful look at this. i 27 10:00 p.m. there is the explosion. as you can see, very dramatic explosion that occurs 30 seconds and really rips into the move compound. there you see the bunker which soon will go up in flames. that was the explosion close-up. if there is anybody there standing there, it is obvious they could not survive that explosion. amy: in 2021, we reported that philadelphia activist and writer abdul-aliy muhammad learned the bones from one or two of the children killed in the 1985 move

bombing, tree and delisha africa, were being used by princeton university and the university of pennsylvania's penn museum of archeology and anthropology in an online video course without the family's knowledge or consent. the police bombing may 13, 1985, came after an earlier standoff with move in 1978 ended in a hail of police gunfire, leaving one police officer dead. move members say they didn't fire a shot and that the officer was a victim of friendly fire. nevertheless, nine of them were convicted of his murder and given life sentences. one of them, debbie africa, secretly gave birth in her cell, just five weeks into her sentence. she managed to keep her son, mike africa jr., with her for three days before alerting the guards. seven of the move 9 are now

free after serving 40 years. two died in prison. for more, we are joined by mike africa, jr. he has a nasty is put a down payment on a house philadelphia bombed in 1985 in order to reclaim it after the city used eminent domain to seize it and turn it into a police substation. he is a co-author of the book "50 years ona move." mike, welcome back to democracy now! can you lay out what happened to the house at 6221 osage avenue in the bombing and afterwards? >> first of all, let me say thank you for having me. it is a real pleasure to be here today. i can lay it out. you laid it out really well what happened when the police -- the bombing of move happened because members of the organization that lived at 60 to one osage avenue

were fighting to get my parents and other members of the move 9 bank released from prison in the city's response was to drop a bomb. in that, they did not just drop a bomb in dislodge a bunker as a loan survivor says, they came out to kill. if you look at the evidence, it is clear, move children were shot as they were trying to leave the burning building. they were shot by police. after they were shot, their bodies were picked up and thrown back into the fire. it was the most horrific and darkest day in my life and probably philadelphia -- amy: talk about how old you were. you played with these other kids in the house. >> in the 1970's, the adults took us to a secret location to get the children away from the confrontational atmosphere in

philadelphia. all of the children that were in the house, i remember, we were in that secret move second chapter. we were all together in an orphanage after we were taken from the other location by police as well. i do every single one of them. we all played together, laughed together, eight together, cried together. we were a family. amy: i'm not going to ask you to remember prison when your mom gave birth to you because you are just therefore three days, but it is astounding that she capped her pregnancy and your birth secret from the guards with the help of other prison mates for a few days so she could bond with you before you were taken away. is that right? >> it is quite a miracle. when i think about it, it is hard to believe it is true. it is hard to believe it is me. when janet africa announced to the judge that debbie gave birth to a baby, the judge did not

believe it, the guards there were on duty that was supposed to be watching the cell to make sure they knew when she gave birth, they did not know it either. i think that is a testament to the strength and exercise activities and the strength of my mother. she is just an incredible person. that did not start -- amy: your mom was released from prison in 2018. it is now 2023. can you talk about the provenance of this house? so it is bombed but what is left becomes a police substation and then the police sold it to the city sold it to a developer? explain. then talk about when you came into the picture, what it was like for you to return to this house of such carnage where six move adults and five children had been killed. >> yes.

so after the bombing, the city turned -- well, first they took the hall from my great aunt louise james, who is the owner of the house, and her son frank africa, he died in the house. louise was the sister of john africa, my great uncle. move was in the house. just as much as the neighbors wanted move out of that house, my great aunt louise wanted them out, too, because of the conflict and whatnot, internally in fighting. but the city, after they dropped the bomb, they took the house through eminent domain. then they turn it into a police substation. wilson goode said, welcome back to this community letters to the residents after their homes were rebuilt and my great aunt never received one of those letters. once the city had the house, they turned it into a police substation and remained that way

until the developer came through in this gentrification suite in philadelphia and sold it. the city sold it to them for a dollar. i called the city and said i would like to buy our house and the solicitor said, we're not selling the house to you for any money. you're not supposed to have this house. amy: not even $1.50. not even for $300,000. the person who lived in the house that bought it from that developer, he told me -- i saw him on may 13, 2022. we were doing our annual commemoration for the lives that were stolen. he reached out to me and said he could not get any peace living in the house. he said every time he turned around -- he said, me and my wife don't even use the front door because every time we do open the door, cameras are in

our faces. so we don't have any privacy, we want out most of you want to buy the house? how do they say, like birthing a baby -- i've never birthday baby but i've heard about it. i have seen it a couple of times. it took nine months -- typically takes 45 to 60 days but it took us nine months to close on the property does for a down payment. the seller is not a developer. he is not a city person. he is an average citizen. he sold the house for market value, which turned out to be $400,000. i was able to put a down payment down but i was not able to come up with 400,000 dollars. i am hoping the city and what i'm calling the reclaim osage campaign, i am hoping that will support the effort to pay the house off. it would be great if they would take some of that excess money they used for nonhealing projects and help heal in this situation. amy: are you thinking of making this a memorial, a museum? >> that is a good question.

a lot of people i been asking me that. the house is known as the residential house. i certainly don't want to cause any more harm to the community, the neighbors. there are people that are original osage neighbors that still live there today, and i don't want to do anything that would create another disruption. they have been through so much. i think a lot of what they have been through was overshadowed because of the 11 deaths. but the neighbors deserve respect. we have to really figure out how to move with peace and freedom, but also respect. we will have to see about that. amy: for our radio listeners, mike is wearing a hat that says #reclaimosage. mike africa, jr., i want to thank you so much for being with us, second-generation move member and co-author of the book "50 years ona move."

just put a down payment on the move house that was bombed by the city of philadelphia. that does it for our show. any update on one of our headlines at the beginning of the show, ecuador's conservative president has dissolved the opposition-let national assembly , blocking efforts by lawmakers to impeach him amidst accusations of corruption and investment. the constitutional power, which had never been used in ecuador before, allows lasso to rule by decree until new elections can be held. we will have more on this story tomorrow on democracy now! that does it for our show. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

. hello, welcome back to nhk "newsline" from new york. u.s. president joe biden has set off for hiroshima to join his counterparts from the world's leading industrial nations. he hinted a pressing matter at home might force him to attend the group of seven summit virtually. but he says he's confident america will not default on