05/25/23 05/25/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] nermeen: from new york, this is democracy now! >> you woke verse is a cultural marxism. at the end of the day, an attack on the truth and because it is a were untrue, i think we have no choice but to wage a war on woke. nermeen: florida republican governor ron desantis has formally launched his presidential campaign. we will go to florida to look at his record and his attacks on workers' rights. then we look at the war in

ukraine. >> catastrophic war has completely changed ukrainian and russian societies and how both have become radicalized and militarized in ways that will last for decades. we have to pursue peace that we also have to understand the limitations and how urgently we need to help the millions of civilians that are threatened by this conflict. nermeen: plus, we will speak to the head of oxfam international which says g7 nations collectively owe poor nations in the global south more than $13 trillion in development and climate assistance. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm nermeen shaikh. russia's wagner group says it has begun withdrawing from bakhmut and will transfer control of the devastated ukrainian city to the russian army. on wednesday, wagner's founder

yevgeny prigozhin said 20,000 of the group's mercenaries were killed during russia's months-long assault on bakhmut. prigozhin also warned the invasion of ukraine could trigger a revolution in russia, blasting what he called the fat, carefree lives of russia's elite while poor and working-class russians die by the thousands. on wednesday, the commander of a self-described anti-putin russian militia spoke to reporters on the ukrainian side of the border, promising more attacks on russian territory after the kremlin said it had repelled a raid by the militia in the belgorod region. "the new york times" reports the pro-ukraine fighters used at least three u.s.-made armored vehicles known as mraps during their incursion. in moscow, kremlin spokesperson dmitry peskov cited the hardware as evidence of direct involvement in the conflict by the united states and its nato allies. earlier today, russia signed an agreement with belarus to begin

deploying tactical nuclear weapons in the former soviet state. meanwhile, russians -- russia's prime minister mikhail mishustin traveled to shanghai for talks with president xi jinping, who said wednesday cooperation between moscow and beijing would reach a higher level. we'll have more on russia and ukraine later in the broadcast. in sudan, bouts of fighting between the army and the paramilitary rapid support forces have been reported in khartoum and other cities, threatening a fragile seven-day ceasefire. both sides blamed the other for violating the temporary truce, which was mediated by the u.s. and saudi arabia. the ongoing fighting has hindered delivery of essential humanitarian relief as the u.n. says over 1.3 million people have now fled their homes, about a quarter of them seeking refuge in neighboring countries. meanwhile, a push by the u.n. to raise funds for the worsening humanitarian disaster in the horn of africa fell far short of

its goal, raising just $2.4 billion of the $7 billion needed to respond to the hunger crisis facing millions of people in somalia, ethiopia, and kenya. u.n. secretary-general antonio guterres appealed to wealthy nations to step up, saying "people in the horn of africa are paying an unconscionable price for a climate crisis they did nothing to cause." he spoke ahead of the u.n.'s pledging event wednesday. >> the longest route on records, mass displacements after years of conflict and insecurity, skyrocketing food prices, and now fighting has engulfed sudan, radiating instability across the entire region. nermeen: typhoon mawar is headed toward the philippines and taiwan after lashing the island of guam. the powerful storm, which has been upgraded to a super typhoon, downed trees, tore roofs off of houses, and knocked

out power across much of the u.s. territory wednesday but no fatalities have been reported. some areas received up to two feet of rain. a meteorologist in guam said of the post-typhoon scene "what used to be a jungle looks like toothpicks." in germany, police have raided the operations of direct action climate group last generation, targeting seven locations across the country. police also froze the group's accounts and shut down their website. the climate activists have been branded a criminal organization due to their high-profile protests, which include shutting down traffic on major roads by gluing themselves to the concrete. last generation is one of several direct action groups that have turned to public acts of disruption to draw attention to the spiraling climate disaster. activists have also shut off pipelines and famously threw mashed potatoes on a painting by monet in a museum. this is last generation member aimee van baalen speaking after

wednesday's raid. >> this doesn't mean the resistance will stop. we will continue to resist. we have democratically agreed we have signed a paris agreement. we have a constitution in which article 20 states our livelihoods must be preserved. of course, it is absolutely democratic to defend that. nermeen: in other climate news, a new investigation from the watchdog group corporate accountability finds that over 90% of chevron's carbon offsets are junk with some likely contributing to the climate crisis and creating social harm. environmental and indigenous activists have long opposed the idea of carbon offsets as corporate greenwashing. in related news, the city of hoboken in new jersey is suing chevron, exxon, and other oil companies over racketeering charges for knowingly deceiving the public of the climate risks of its industry.

treasury secretary janet yellen said wednesday the u.s. remains on course to default on its loans as early as next thursday unless lawmakers agree to raise the ceiling on the national debt. the white house says a default would cause severe damage to the u.s. economy, costing up to 8 million jobs. on tuesday, far-right house freedom caucus member matt gaetz openly admitted republicans were holding the u.s. economy hostage in a bid to force democrats to agree to huge cuts in federal spending. >> i think my conservative colleagues for the most part, support limited growth -- they don't feel like we should negotiate with the hostage. nermeen: white house press secretary karine jean-pierre seized on gaetz's comments, saying they showed the fight over the debt ceiling was a manufactured crisis. >> don't take our word for it,

just listen to members of the house freedom caucus. they have been very honest about this. they are now openly -- they're saying a quiet thing out loud, referring to the full faith and credit of the united states as a hostage. nermeen: florida governor ron desantis has officially entered the race for the republican party's 2024 presidential nomination. desantis announced his candidacy official during a twitter spaces interview with twitter's billionaire owner elon musk. desantis' announcement was delayed by a half hour as twitter's live stream repeatedly glitched and crashed. >> there is no substitute for victory. we must end the culture of losing that has infected republican party in recent years. the tar dogmas of the past are inadequate for a vibrant future. we must look forward, not backwards. nermeen: as governor of florida, desantis has signed a slew of bills targeting reproductive rights, immigrant rights, public sector unions, the transgender community, and diversity programs in schools.

we'll go to florida after headlines for more on ron desantis' candidacy. uvalde, texas, has marked the one-year anniversary of the mass shooting that claimed the lives of 19 elementary school children and two of their teachers. mourners gathered wednesday outside st. philip's episcopal church for a "day of remembrance" vigil. san antonio resident yolanda valenzuela says the massacre has caused lasting trauma to teachers, students, and parents across texas. >> nobody feels safe anymore. kids, they spend some of their time learning how to deal with active shooter's and how to hide and this and that and the other. nermeen: at the white house, president biden marked the anniversary of the uvalde massacre with another appeal to congress to pass a ban on assault weapons and other gun controls. in india, the delhi high court

has summoned the bbc over documentary on india's nationalist prime minister. the film, titled "india: the modi question," aired earlier this year highlighting modi's role in anti-muslim riots, which killed an estimated 1000 people in 2002 when modi was governor of gujarat state. modi's government has attempted to block people sharing the film, calling it "hostile propaganda and anti-india garbage." nash william police officer has been charged over the killing of a 95 or old great-grandmother in a new southwell's nursing home. she died wednesday of complications from head trauma after a 33-year-old senior police constable fired his taser at her, causing her to collapse. officers have been responding to report of an elderly woman with dementia holding a serrated steak now. the australian police are allowed to use tasers if they feel their lives are in danger,

but witnesses say the woman weighed 95 pounds i was slowly advancing toward the officers using a walker. the police commissioner announced the charges wednesday. >> for the offenses of recklessly conflict grievous bodily harm and assault -- nermeen: here in new york, resident doctors at elmhurst hospital in queens have ended their strike after reaching a tentative deal with their employer the mount sinai health system. their union says the deal brings early-career doctors much closer towards parity with their counterparts who work at hospitals in manhattan. and the queen of rock 'n' roll tina turner has died at the age of 83. born anna mae bullock in tennessee, she rose to fame alongside her husband ike turner in the 1960's. she went on to leave the abusive relationship and became a solo artist. she topped the charts with hits

like "what's love got to do with it," "the best," and "proud mary." she won eight grammys throughout her career and was celebrated for her electrifying stage performances. like many notable black artists, tina turner faced racism in u.s. and said she felt more at home in europe where she had an even larger fan base. she lived with her husband irwin bach in switzerland, where she passed away peacefully after a battle with intestinal cancer. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm nermeen shaikh. amy is at her nephew's college graduation. florida's republican governor ron desantis has officially launched his presidential campaign. desantis made the announcement on a twitter audio stream, hosted by twitter's billionaire owner elon musk, but major technical glitches disrupted the event. desantis later appeared on fox news. >> the woke mind virus is basically a form of cultural marxism.

it is an attack on the truth. because it is a war on truth, i think we have no choice but to wage a war on woke. how does that work for president? so may be the bully pulpit. being willing to tell the truth and not being diluted by ideology, which we see in many aspects of our society. nermeen: the 2024 republican primaries will pit desantis against his former ally donald trump and at least five other republicans, including senator tim scott and former u.n. ambassador nikki haley. as governor of florida, desantis has passed a slew of bills targeting reproductive rights, immigrant rights, the transgender community, and diversity programs in schools. he has also recently signed legislation to weaken the power of public sector unions. to talk more about ron desantis, we are joined by alphonso mayfield. he is the president of seiu florida public services union. welcome to democracy now! if you could begin by responding

to the announcement by ron desantis? >> i think it is the use of words. that he did not really say anything. i think a lot of his governing strategy has been to throw out firebrand cultural issues because he does not have actual policy-based solutions to the ills of what our happening to the people of florida. nermeen: what are the issues that the people of florida are confronting? >> skyrocketing rent, skyrocketing home prices, our schools are to some extent falling apart because of years of lack of funding and a move to privatize public education -- which he pushed for last cycle.

skyrocketing energy prices. he has approved and pushed for multiple increases for the allowing of multiple increases of energy prices over the last few years. so people are hurting. the cost of inflation is not keeping up with people's wages. instead of dealing with those issues directly, he is punching down and focusing on the most marginalized and the people who are actually working and trying to create a better lives for their families and communities. nermeen: to go to that, earlier this month as we said in her introduction, desantis signed legislation aimed at weakening public sector unions. could you explain what that legislation entails and also why unions representing police firefighters and corrections officers were exempt from the bill? >> i will start with thelatter first. the exemption was to divide

workers and it was also for him to cater to a core part of his face, which are people who are more conservative aspect of the labor movement. he did not want to appear publicly that he was attacking fire and police. his reasons for doing it, you at who is funding -- campaign contributions, i think it is fairly obvious. what the attack essentially does was it basically tries to put significant barriers between workers and their ability to be able to have a union, puts our contracts at risk by saying there has to be a 60% threshold for membership for them to be able to keep their contracts. it adds a bunch of crazy auditing requirements to prove people who say they are members of the unit are members of the union. and also membership cards. it is doing what far right

conservatives complain about all the time, abusing the power of the state and using -- when he said the bully pulpit of regulation to be able to try to interfere with people's daily lives, it is actually doing that. it is an attempt to soften and stifle the voice of workers. but it is not going to work. our members, other members of labor are committed to making sure that does not happen. nermeen: could you elaborate, who are the workers that are principally impacted or will be principally impacted by these policies? >> that is a great question. it is all workers who work in the public sector within -- with an exemption for fire and police. i know there was a push that this was just about teachers, which is also horrible but this would affect everyone who is a public employee in florida on the state level and local levels

so from school teachers, bus drivers, custodians, adjunct professors, sanitation workers, if you work in the public sector, you would be impacted by the passing of this law. nermeen: could you give us overall a record of what his tenure has been like as governor and what fear the impact on workers across the country would be in the event he is elected president? >> it has been governing by destruction. it has been governing by punching down. not having solutions to actual problems and using jargon and catchphrases as a distraction. it has been focusing on workers, people of color, immigrants, and the algae thank you -- the lgbtq community and saying, look at

these people. they're the reason for all of the problems while actually passing deals and pushing for the passage of bills that are making the lives of floridians worse. you will be hard-pressed to find anyone right, left, center that would say floridians are better off than they were when he took office. and he knows that. if he becomes president, you are also looking at someone who would have the temerity and ability to use the full power of the state to silence voices on both sides of the out. because it is all about power and control. nermeen: you think florida is still a swing state? can democrats not win a statewide race there? >> florida is a swing state. florida suffered a 90% drop of investment in campaigns over the

election. what that means, the national party, national apparatuses, other donors basically said, we're not going to put money in florida in part because of saving -- other factors. we have one side spin presidential money and still did not get a level of turnout they did in 18 and the other does not have the resources, this is what happens. i think there is a reckoning that is coming within our democracy. a friend of mine talks a lot that to keep the democracy we have to win in the midwest. but he also talks about how the confederacy is always undermined the democracy. we have to be able to do both. we can't feed half the country and think you're going to keep a functioning democracy. every race where resources were plentiful and existed, we won the war were competitive.

if we want to be competitive in florida, we have to invest. but all the indicators show -- nermeen: thank you so much, alphonso mayfield, president of seiu florida public services union. coming up, we go to kyiv to look at the war in ukraine. ♪♪ [music break]

nermeen: tina turner, died wednesday at the age of 83. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org. i'm nermeen shaikh. we turn now to the war in ukraine. as calls grow for russia's war on ukraine to end, a number of recent developments indicate the war could be expanding beyond the borders of ukraine. earlier today, russia signed an agreement with belarus to begin deploying tactical nuclear weapons in belarus. -- in the former soviet state. the kremlin said the move was a response to what it called the "sharp escalation of threats on

the western borders of russia and belarus." earlier this week, a group of pro-ukrainian fighters from russia attacked sites in the russian region of belgorod using what appears to be u.s.-made armored vehicles and humvees. the biden administration has denied any u.s. involvement in the cross-border raid. on wednesday, national security council spokesperson john kirby said, "we don't support the use of u.s.-made equipment for attacks inside russia." the cross-border raid was carried out in part by a group called the russian volunteer corps. according to "the financial times," the group includes self-avowed neo nazis. meanwhile, "the new york times" reports u.s. intelligence agencies believe the recent drone attack on the kremlin was likely carried out by a ukrainian special military or intelligence unit. "the times" says it remains unclear if ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy or his top officials were aware of the operation. this comes as a top ukrainian military intelligence official

has admitted to the german publication "die welt" that ukraine is seeking to assassinate both russian president vladimir putin and wagner group founder yevgeny prigozhin. fighting continues around the devastated ukrainian city of bakhmut, which has been largely seized by russia after a brutal fight. russia is also continuing to attack other ukrainian cities. on wednesday, russian aircraft destroyed a kindergarten in the sumy region. we are joined now by two guests. gregory afinogenov is a professor of russian history at georgetown university. his recent piece for jacobin is headlined "peace in ukraine isn't coming soon." he joins us from stamford, new york. and in the ukrainian capital of kyiv, denis pilash is a ukrainian political scientist and historian. he's a member of the ukrainian democratic socialist organization sotsialnyi rukh and also an editor at commons: journal of social criticism.

welcome both to democracy now! denis pilash, i would like to begin with you. you are in kyiv, which recently has witnessed a spate of attacks from russia. if you can describe what the scene is on the ground in kyiv? >> well, hello and i should start with everyone living in ukraine can witness and experience the sheer amount of devastation that was inflicted by the russian invasion in our country. actually, we have been living here for more than a year in a state of constant air raid and others and shellings and missile strikes on major cities with entire cities in the eastern part of ukraine razed to the ground.

but as, well, it seems the army of invasion fails to complete its talks and ukrainian resistance overcomes the russian plans, so russia is unleashing these acts on both the civilian areas and also major ravages this winter when they targeted specifically civilian structures. they tried to freeze ukrainians to debt by destroying power plants, energy grids, or supplies. also like, they did not exceed. workers almost did miracles and restoring -- in restoring.

drones are being intercepted. foreign military aid can save civilian lives. but certainly with the recent missile attacks, claimed many thousands of lives in a hit multistory apartment the links -- apartment buildings. in kyiv, we have every day multiple air raids but the vast majority of the missile and drones are intercepted so people have gotten accustomed to living under constant attacks. for instance, in our university, conducted our classes like in the basement, bomb shelters.

so it becomes very frightening but part of the so-called normality. this brutality of war, can be just overcome when you open your social media news feed and you will see the continuation of obituaries. almost everyone has already friends or relatives whose lives have been lost and many of these are civilians. nermeen: could you also respond to the latest news which we read in our introduction, namely that prigozhin, the head of the wider mercenary group, has said they will start withdrawing from bakhmut and said 20,000 of his fighters had been killed? he

also said the half of the 20,000 who were killed for former prisoners recruited by wagner. you said wagner is like blackwater on steroids. if you could explain? what has wagner been responsible for? >> they're probably one of the most notorious units inside. it has its degree of autonomy with the russian army and industry of defense but actually it has been used extensively by the russian regime to do all of the -- not just in ukraine but many regions of the world. in syria, in africa we actually recently had solidarity with

activists from different african countries from sudan and south africa and what we learned a lot about the presence of the wagner group there and sudan was the first country to be targeted by wagner mercenaries. now the dictator bashir led them into his country in a very now colonial or 19th-century colonialism way of doing things. they started booting national resources, mainly gold. they were very heavily involved in the conflicts and now we are inside another conflict in sudan where both sides have links to russia and have links to the wagner group and specifically, the head of the gender we'd who

was responsible for the darfur genocide is waging a war against other generals in sudan. he was in moscow on the day of russia's invasion of ukraine. ultimately, wagner became backbone for many military dictatorships in several african countries. it seems they are very ruthless. they include people who are also coming from the far right, what supremacist background. -- white supremacist background. their link to workrooms both the middle east and africa and ukraine. it seems tries to grab --prigozhin tries to grab every publicity to make as occurrence even more notorious. he wants to use this in some possible future power struggle inside russia.

it seems he tries to underline his importance both internal and foreign policy of russia. this makes him an even more the tory us figure -- notorious figure for people even if putin's regime is gone, be replaced with something like this kind of even more outright ultranationalist and militarist regime like prigozhin. nermeen: and only to add a recent u.n. report accused wagner mercenaries of involvement in a march 2022 massacre in a village where nearly 500 people were killed. i would like to go now to professor gregory afinogenov. you are a professor of russian history. your recent piece for jacobin is headlined "peace in ukraine isn't coming soon."

could you explain why you believe peace negotiations are not possible at the moment and indeed while you make the argument that the question is not so much of the u.s. pushing ukraine to negotiate but whatever agreement is reached would result in a very long-standing standoff between ukraine and russia akin to happen in korea? >> i think if you look at the context of what is happening both ukrainian and russian society, both societies are becoming highly polarized in which obviously in russia liberals have been not only imprisoned but actively exiled or threatened with conscription, massive fines, and so on. but even passive supporters of the invasion are held to particular standard in terms of even high-profile supporters have had their private phone calls leaked in what appears to

be a way to threaten them. this is also affecting the way the elite competition plays out with the ascension of prigozhin. russian elites that are competing now for the spot of designatedheir to putin want to be seen as more militaristic, patriotics, more aggressive than its rivals. in of the sort of soft technocratic liberals you might've seen 10 years ago have been disappeared, not to say there would be any veterans necessarily. and ukrainian society, positions that were more or less socially consensus or at least a solid middle ground 10 to 15 years ago have now become symptomatic of dedicated to putin for support of russia.

the sole legitimate contenders are polical power and ukraine are highly nationalist and highly bent on their covering territories lost russia -- recovering territories lost russia. the awful, horrendous nature of this invasion and the true scope of the lives and land lost. as a result, this is not something that the u.s. has caused, not something the u.s. is -- of course the u.s. is perpetuating it in the since it is preventing ukraine from losing, but the underlying tensions here are not something u.s.an remove by asking for negotiations. the societies are deeply at odds in a way that is going to persist for many years. nermeen: you said recent speculations, have said russia has been preparing politically for this war for at least a decade. could you explain what you mean by that and then how so? >> the sequence of events that

started with u.s. invasion of libya and also the opposition in russia right around the same moment in 2011, i think this was a moment of reckoning for putin in the since he believed unless he changed things radically, he would be at risk of some kind of regime change. whether it is justified or not i can't say, but -- that is not to say this was -- it is link to an idea of the west not too distant from desantis'. the invasion of ukraine was the sort of foreign policy version of that initiative. putin realized he could not do to ukraine what he had done to belarus, just make it a highly political authoritarian and

subservient puppet state, which has gotten even worse in 2020 with brutal suppression. the military route here is an attempt by putin to ensure that there is no sort of visible post-soviet challenge to the rest and work -- russian world order for the image of the russian world order. the failure of this invasion is good news for ukrainians but it is not necessarily good news for russian foreign policy. i think it reflects a sense, for me, the regime is entering a kind of spiral aggression and internal dysfunction that is not at risk of ending anytime soon. nermeen: denis pilash, could you respond to what professor afinogenov said? also, you are a socialist

activist. if you could explain where the left in ukraine now stands on this war? you have mentioned the left in ukraine describes a situation as "surviving between russian tanks and western banks." could you elaborate? >> yes, i would just add probably that this type of thinking that is now manifested by the kremlin elite and putin himself, it is akin to some kind of western far right conspiracy theories. it is deeply rooted no kind of revolution, no kind of revolt is possible without any foreign help. they consider any kind of popular unrest as something that is somehow manufactured by the

foreign enemies and competitors. so actually, this is deeply conservative worldview. of course, it is based on, first of all, this very deep fear of their own people that ultimately some kind of new revolution is possible also in the russian federation. this makes russia some kind of like in 19 century czar nicholas i was suppressing like in hungary. they're trying to act in the post-soviet space, conservative safeguards helping authoritarian regimes to keep the population in cages, actually. to speak about -- to address the situation of the ukrainian left, we are in this challenge that

together with the entire population of ukraine we are -- we need to do this existential fight for the survival of ukraine, separate entities, separate public. but we also need to preserve the space for democratic action and to preserve the space for social change. this is very deeply connected with the issues already wartime economy and postwar reconstruction as what has been exposed international forums dedicated to the postwar reconstruction of ukraine, both ukrainian and western -- paying tend to apply mostly business-friendly and business-oriented approaches and

reconstruction and essentially they will try also use a situation to further make more offensive on the state in the public sector in ukraine. while we as the ukrainian leftist socialist, trade unionists, feminists, of our medalists, and other activists, we feel on the contrary. the country that has been so heavily torn by the war, it needs extension of the upper state. it needs expansion of the public sectors. we already have a huge need in social housing. this should not be left to private contractors that have already been destroying our cities from inside. we will have an number of people

-- enormous number of people who were injured in the work, people with disabilities. this means we need more hospitals, more medical and psychological help and we also need to create protection for those who have been affected by the war. this is a kind of reconstruction that was in many european countries after the second world war when the working classes and organized labor, trade unions -- in many places, they were empowered. they put pressures on their governments for more concessions and more socially oriented, socially just way of reconstructing the economy in the country in general.

i think this is also a point where an international left and progressive movement also can make a difference by pressuring their governments to a more socially, generally, ecologically just reconstruction of ukraine. and also taking the issue of ukraine into the bigger picture of the countries of the periphery. we have launched a program because we feel people need to build or bridges with the so-called global south, with latin america, africa, asia. we have different histories different colonial and imperialist issues, but with a similar issues of dependency. we need to counter them together , solidarity for instance debt

cancellation. ukraine is not the first one that was trapped inside. we need to build this more on a global front for change that would defy any kind of imperialist in any form. the brute force, not just in ukraine but elsewhere. also other forms of dependency that can be, for instance, imposed by the international financial organizations. nermeen: professor afinogenov, if you could respond what denis said? you have also said this has been a shock doctrine.

if you could elaborate on that? also, respond to what kinds of reconstruction aid is required now in ukraine and where that might come from? >> the shock doctrine, i mean, it is hamas a textbook case. original proposed slate of reforms to the pension law and labor law in ukraine or highly radical. it would eliminate the ability for labor unions to collectively bargain. before the wars. they were unable to do so. they did not have enough support. after the war, there was the rally around the flag effect and many of the leading opposition parties -- all of them -- were banned, although the deputies remain. they were able to pass these reforms, which even -- these are not middle-of-the-road reforms. they are the far right of the neoliberal european consensus,

essentially. they are made use of the effect by the fact the regime -- the volodymyr zelenskyy counts on not have any social mobilization against it because everyone is so focused on saving their loved ones from the russian invasion. and allowing the state to do what it needs to do to protect the country. so it has become this -- i want to point out, it is not just zelenskyy doing this himself. eua comes with a slate of conditions that strongly encourage this new level turn. it amounts into a in social welfare spending. it is a question of what kind of ukraine survives the conflict? will it be a gigantic economic zone that has certain trade privileges but much weaker labor

protections or will it be a country that is just and actually offers a place to live for its millions of people that is better? i think you could easily happen but the eu is bent on proposing the ideology on the recipients of the eight and i think it is important to -- to address the second part of your question, it is important to take the spotlight away from the military aid which, yes, it is essential for ukrainian survival but the much greater need for civilian reconstruction right now are really being discussed. it is the civilian reconstruction, debt cancellation in particular, that is very essential. the removal of conditionality's on this kind of aid so as to remove the government's ability to wield those to force out --

perhaps venue some of the levers of the aid to put pressure withdraw some of the attempts to monopolize public space. there have been documented instances of protesters on all kinds of issues being drafted or threatened with conscription and being sent to the front. this is troubling. it is directly threatening protesters with violence. the state currently has not a lot of resources left but if the war ends and still has the same degree of intervention and street politics, that is not going to be good news for ukrainian policy. nermeen: could you also talk about how the war appears to be spreading beyond the borders of ukraine? there was the recent drone attack on the kremlin and just this week the cross-border raids by pro-ukrainian-russian forces attacking the belgorod region of russia. what are your concerns about this potentially escalating to

the point that is potentially devastating for the area but also potentially the world? and even though you have reservations about a possible cease-fire ending in something like korea situation, wouldn't cease-fire nevertheless result in fewer and possibly no lives lost on the ukrainian side? >> i would like to think, yes. certainly, would be better than most of the available options at this point. but the difficulty with the current cross-border attacks and the other terrace -- well, acts of sabotage and so on, from the military point of view are defensible but important to understand these are not volunteer groups in any meaningful sense. these are clients of ukrainian security services. what they appear to be doing is

registering western governments are starting to weary of their open-ended commitment to ukrainian military defense. i think trying to provoke russia into some kind of radical course of action that is going to force the u.s. and nato to take a more radical position. so they are trying to stage the attacks as more and more obvious in an attempt to get something else to happen. obviously, that is extremely risky as a strategy. it risks spiraling into a nuclear -- at the same time, it is important to remember because of the way these forces are established and ukrainian society, cease-fire were not prevent this from happening. there would be people in ukraine and russia interested in an immediate resumption. they would work to constantly sabotage and be able to say, look, these are

just volunteers. both within ukraine and within russia, have to remember it began as a possibly -- plausibly deniable on state solution. work for a long term rather than to stop the bleeding and hope for the best. nermeen: denis pilash, your final comments? we just have 30 seconds. >> sorry, sorry. i would think it is quite important now to keep solidarity with the people of ukraine. this means we need all kinds of support, includes military support but also includes humanitarian aid and resuming the political questions. nermeen: thank you so much, denis pilash, ukrainian political scientist and

historian. and thank you to gregory afinogenov, professor of russian history at georgetown university. we will link to your recent piece in jacobin is headlined "peace in ukraine isn't coming soon." coming up, a new report from oxfam finds g7 countries collectively owe poor nations in the global south more than $13 trillion in development and climate assistance. back in 30 seconds. ♪♪ [music break]

nermeen: tina turner passed away wednesday at the age of 83. we end today's show with a new oxfam report that shows g7 countries oh the poor nations in the global south more than 13 trained those in develop and come at assistance but instead these counies are saled with day debt repments of $232 million, deepening the global chasof inequaly. we go to new delhi, india, where we are joined by by amitabh behar, interim executive director of oxfam international. welcome to democracy now! if you could layout what this report found, the oxfam report? >> the report is essentially talking about how we need to really look at the narrative.

the current narrative where we talk of g7 as charitable global leaders, which actually should be getting resources in terms of lower and middle income countries, completely transformed. [indiscernible] what do the g7 countries owe to the poor and middle income countries? that change is critical. ou report clearly says the g7 countries owe $13.3rillion to the loweand middle iome countries. that is massive. this is the form of th nonpayme of aid and not putting resources in climate action. that is really the story. when g7 met in russia, they were

talking about hunger -- met in hiroshima, there were talking about hunger. nermeen: if you could elaborate? you said huge cost from climate damage caused by the "reckless burning of fossil fuels are rich countries needs to be addressed here as part of the debt" what are you calling for? >> if you look at the commitment by g7, they said they were going to immerse $100 billion every year and we have not really seen that money. if you increasingly look at the massive damages happening because of the climate crisis, particularly in the south, somebody needs to take responsibility for that. it is fairly clear report after report that the g7 countries are significantly responsible for these emissions. at this moment, as the report

says, they owe almost $8.7 trillion in terms of loss and damages. that is something that must be put up front by the g7 but that is not happening. the second part is that in 1970, the g7 countries agreed to 0.7 of gni but we have not seen half of that money getting realized. so massive shortfalls in terms of the money that g7 owes to the developing countries. nermeen: if you could explain with a concrete effects of these crippling debt payments are on the global south? this comes as a global hunger crisis has risen for the fifth consecutive year. talk about the impact on individual states of these debt

repayments and where the money is taken from to repay the debt. >> absolutely. i think that is also very central to our report, that the money that goes out every day in terms of debt repayment that goes to the coffers of the g7 and also french bankers is essentially the money that could have been invested in education, health, gender justice programs, ensuring say drinking water, climate resilience. but that is the money going back to the g7 countries. this is happening in the context of the crisis we are witnessing. as you said, fifth era --almost 280 million plus people sleep hungry every night. this is the time when this debt

crisis is being talked out. also in the context of the food crisis, looking at inflation. so even a cost of repayment is going higher as the dollar cost goes up most of in the context of the crisis, this is hypocrisy to say the g7 is taking global leadership why it is the schools and the public health system, safe drinking water taken away from the communities. nermeen: we just have 30 seconds, if you could say how humanitarian aid fits into it, the inadequacy of it and what needs to be done? >> it is extremely inadequate. it is fairly clear the need for humanitarian a is growing and growing because what we are looking at -- the crisis is also in terms of inequality. the climate crisis, conflict. it is all coming together.

at this juncture, the humanitarian aid is galloping in terms of -- nermeen: i'm afraid we have to leave it there. amitabh behar, interim executive director of oxfam international,