modern-day slavery? a report finds 50 million people are victims of forced unpaid labor. so what's being done to stop it? this is inside story. mohammed: hello and welcome to the program. the numbers are staggering. an estimated 50 million people

globally were living in modern-day slavery as recently as 2021. a report by the international rights group, suggests the figure increased by 10 million within five years. the reasons are complex, but extreme weather, migration and armed conflicts are exposing entire communities to exploitation. low-income countries are at the centre of this issue. but findings show consumerism and demands from rich nations are contributing to the problem. we will ask our guests about what can be done to combat this. first, let us take a closer look at the report. researchers found forced labor is one of the most prevalent forms of modern-day slavery. also high in the least -- list is forced marriage. india has the highest number of people, about 11 million live in in modern slavery. it is followed by china, which has 6 million.

huge consumerism in rich countries is worsening the problem. some industries use modern-day slavery as part of their production line. let's go ahead and bring in our guests. in london, sophie otiende, ceo of the global fund to end modern slavery and a survivor of human trafficking. phil robertson, deputy director of the asia division at human rights watch. grace forrest, founding director of walk free, an international human rights group that felt -- publish the report. grace, let me start with you. how is the modern day slavery defined and what are its root causes? >> we define modern slavery as a sustainable removal of a person's freedom.

it is an umbrella term that encompasses a number of highly exploitative practices, including forced marriage, debt bondage, human trafficking and stay impose forced labor. 50 million people live in modern slavery in the world today. it is that 10 million person increase in the last five years. this is due to the covid-19 pandemic, the climate crisis and protected crises. modern slavery is not a new problem. it is connected to historic inequality and deep social inequity. mohammed: when it comes to the methodology involved in collecting this data, do you feel communities that have been impacted by modern slavery have been centered in the conversation about these issues up until this point?

>> thank you so much. yes. one of the things that is truly a good practice its people really talking about what their experiences are. that is the most important thing. historically when impacted communities have been brought into conversations, it speaks to the quality of this report. mohammed: one of the countries

mentioned prominently in this report in the global survey index, list north korea of having the highest prevalence of modern slavery in the world. human rights watch has reported they use predatory labor uses to build its economy. in the past, why have some of your findings been? >> forced labor is a systematic and pervasive practice in north korea. it is used to construct infrastructure and ski resorts, and also as a form of punishment. people who run afoul of the regime end up in forced labor camps. in some cases, they end up in camps where people are worked to death. it is part of the core practice of north korea to demand forced labor from their people.

as a result of the changes that took place during the covid pandemic, they have made it more difficult for people to escape. we have a border with china has armed guards. guards shoot to kill if you try to escape. mohammed: i want to ask you about some of the other countries mentioned in the report. among the 10 countries with the highest prevalence of modern-day slavery, do they have common characteristics? what are some of them? >> they absolutely do have common characteristics. we are looking at a number of authoritarian regimes where entire groups are excluded from social plans altogether.

we have three arab states in the top 10. this is largely due to systems like obama when migrant workers are being exploited. when it comes to other countries, we are looking at widespread state impose forced labor. this is really concerning. there are 217 countries experiencing state impose slavery around the world, including the united states. this is happening at the hands of governments and is happening often to ethnic minorities and is connected to supply chains of the goods we buy and use every day. mohammed: i want to follow up on

the number. the report says 50 million people around the world have been living in modern-day slavery as recently as 2021 and that there has been an increase of 10 million since 2018. does that suggest there are 10 million more people now living in modern slavery conditions? or is it that the methodology has changed and you were able to identify more people that had been living in those conditions prior to 2021? >> the answer is both. the methodology has become stronger and this is the most rigorous report we have ever put out. this is a comparative estimate. it is an increase of people living in modern slavery. a few governments have implemented legislation to combat modern slavery but the issue has gotten worse and that is a major problem. we are looking at increasing

vulnerability and diminish in political will. for many countries in the g20, they do not have adequate legislation to prevent modern slavery. criminal justice systems in some of these countries traumatize and traffic people in modern slavery. over 50% of the 50 million are people experiencing modern slavery in g20 countries. mohammed: do you want to jump in? >> i just wanted to agree with grace in terms of the numbers and the increase. when you cover all the issues we have gone through, covid-19, the humanitarian crisis, this has

led to increased vulnerability. that number is reflected in the increase we are seeing. we need to think about how we deal with this together as a solution to addressing custom issues that affect humanity. rather than where everybody is working on a very specific issue. when you think about it, all of these issues are affected in same groups of people, therefore we really need to start coming together and actually thinking about how we come up with solutions that address these things together. mohammed: i have heard you say

in the past at the numbers do not capture the individual stories enough of the people impacted by modern slavery. when you are talking about 50 million people, that number is staggering. but i am curious how difficult is it for people to really understand the conditions as so many people in the world are living in? people that are not confronted with this reality day by day. how difficult is it to reach them? >> i think again we go back to when i say these are the numbers, numbers are really important because it is really hard for people to understand something if you do not say how big the issue is. so i definitely think numbers help in compartmentalizing that issue.

when you think about modern slavery, the story of a young girl stuck in the house who is being abused by their relative, it is the migrant worker on a farm. i think sometimes when we look at numbers, people assume that this person is just going through this one abuse. the reality is the same girl that is traffic it -- traffic for domestic abuse will be sexually abused in the house. when you think about vulnerabilities, just thinking this is something that basically affects the very specific group of people come i think --

people, whatever is happening is happening by design and we need to question how we structure the system as humanity so that specific groups of people [indiscernible] the inequality is by design, it is not by mistake. mohammed: when it comes to the asian countries that are tackling these issues, how are they doing? are governments in asia doing more to combat impunity when it comes to abuses against laborers? >> i think one of the big problems or they had been of force labor up among migrant workers in the region. and also among migrant workers who are leaving the region,

going to places like the middle east. there is not any sort of system of effective regulation or laws that empower migrants to represent themselves, to organize unions, to be able to protect themselves. instead we see systems that are all about control, about giving power to employers over migrant workers. and then failing to intervene when we see excuses -- abuses. when we see people in debt bondage in places like malaysia, entire factories of people who cannot return home or get paid what they were promised. or the forced labor on fishing boats. that is one of the issues. it is important that we found

systematic forced labor in places like china and why has been done in north korea as we already mentioned. but there is a whole dimension of migration that is simply not being addressed by the government. so few of them protect migrant workers. so if of them have ratified the convention of migrant workers. so few of them have put in any sort of systematic regulation to protect migrant workers and do the kind of work that is needed to help them when they go overseas. mohammed: we have often spoken about these migration issues, especially when it comes to refugees. for example, refugees fleeing myanmar. just how vulnerable are these populations? the fact that they are fleeing

war, the fact that they are refugees, how easy is a drawn -- is it for them to be drawn into these modern slavery conditions? >> unfortunately, it is rather easy. what we see is that these people do not have documents, they do not have protection. they are operating on the margins of society. they are easy to exploit, they are easy to force into labor. you have issues of child marriage, forced marriage. he goes on and on. it is connected to the vulnerability of stateless persons and people fleeing acts of genocide. there is no country that wants to protect them.

mohammed: how big of an issue is forced me -- marriage? and how many people are we talking about? >> when you have a group of people who are marginalized as a result of the system not protecting them. the thing about force the marriage that i thought was interesting, most people think forced marriage predominantly exists in southern countries. that was not the case. the numbers were not just in one

part of the globe. mohammed: grace, when it comes to the issue of forced marriage, what kind of numbers are we talking about? how big of a component in this is in the reporting? >> we are talking about 22 million people. it is dangerous for people to think of forced marriage as separate from modern slavery. a sentence of forced marriage is a life sentence. it is often happen to minors. it is happening on the backdrop of the backdrop of women's rights being rolled back globally, from the united states to afghanistan. we are seeing major issues on women's rights not being

documented or being seen as critical. in times of crisis, often the first thing to be taken up the table is the rights of women and girls. we saw a star in covid-19, when somalia sought to legalize child marriage. in indonesia, there was a 15% increase in applications for child marriages. this is not a coincidence. modern slavery is not an issue that happens in isolation. it is an issue of racial injustice. it is an issue of not valuing migrant workers who are an essential part of our economies. forced marriages are being experience in every region of the world.

we have seen forced marriage cases in australia, the united states. it is no surprise to people that forced marriages occurred during times of conflict. too easy it is blamed on culture. i think it is important we pieced together the rights of women and girls in times of crisis and understand unless their rights are embedded in law , they are not a given. mohammed: phil, when reports of this nature,, there are governments that will start trying to change their laws and their governments that have tried to change their laws when it comes to modern slavery practices. from your vantage point, are these types of laws implemented? >> that is a big problem. you have the effort to pass laws.

we saw this when human trafficking became an issue in the early 2000's. oftentimes, the implementation was lacking. that continues to be a major problem in the region i work in in southeast asia, where we see time and time again laws that are passed that there is no effective implementation. if we look at highland, -- thailand, they criminalized forced labor resulting from the human trafficking on fishing boats, but it is not effectively enforced. the police are not trained. the local officials do not understand it. as a result, it is sitting on the shelf. there is not the kind of implementation that is needed.

mohammed: sophie, do you see governments that have changed their laws to try to end these practices? are they doing enough to implement these laws? from your perspective, is there a willingness to confront the root causes of slavery? >> again, we go back to -- i would agree with phil completely that when this issue came up, one of the things that happened is that people continued to set up new laws. it is in issue that affects women and girls, migrant workers. even if we have -- while i absolutely advocate for strong

measures when it comes to modern slavery, the truth is it is not effective on the ground if the policing is not tied to the policing around women and girls, education. it is hard for this issue to be dealt with. that means whenever best whatever somebody is experiencing is very different. -- that means at the implementation level, whatever anyone is experiencing is very different. we need to start somewhere. and i think that is by finding the language around this.

and by saying what is the bare minimum of government should be able to do for these groups? i feel like sometimes that is what is missing. we need to have different groups working together to be able to achieve that. mohammed: the report calls on governments to take five key actions. what are they? >> those actions are to create stronger laws on addressing forced labor. part of this is in relation to how we trade with other countries. modern slavery cannot be

addressed in isolation. countries creating laws is a start, but one of our steps is to integrate modern slavery responses into human rights responses. we need to ensure civil rights are being felt through people throughout the world. migration systems are clearly fractured. we are looking at migrant workforce is in the millions. they are fundamental and important parts of our economy. it is time they are treated with basic human rights and respect.

we need to address laws that actually create further vulnerability, such as address and legal marriage age. left in the legal marriage age to 18 is a simple step that countries can take. when dealing with repressive regimes, we need to center these conversations on human rights and transparency. mohammed: we have run out of time so we will have to leave the conversation there today. thanks so much to all of our guests. and thank you too for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website at aljazeera.com. you can join the conversation on twitter. for the entire team here,

goodbye for now.

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