mohammed: fighting in sudan has led to a new wave of violence in darfur. thousands have fled to neighboring chad to escape attacks by militias, and there are fears this could reignite tribal tensions in the region. so what is fueling this violence? this is "inside story." ♪ hello and welcome to the program. i'm mohammad jamjoom. sudan's army and paramilitary

rapid support forces have been fighting for nearly two months now. millions of people have been affected. but this latest battle is threatening. night decades old tensions in the western four region. -- in the western darfur region. doctors without borders say hundreds of civilians have been killed there since violence broke out in april. the battle began around the capital, khartoum, but has since spread to many areas across the country. darfur has become one of its main battlegrounds. people in the region say various militias are targeting civilians, and some have warned of massacres. thousands of people have been crossing into neighboring chad to escape the violence. we will get to our guests in the moment, but first, this update from zein basarabi, who's at a refugee camp on the chad, sudan border. reporter: whenever we return to places like this, to these kinds of impromptu camps where people are arriving from west darfur, one thing becomes clear, the conflict is not becoming smaller. it is becoming bigger, because the number of people at places

like this simply continues to growth. more and people arrive -- array into these kinds of conditions. they are living out in the open, exposed to the elements. it is incredibly hot and sunny now with with very, very stark conditions overhead. just last night there was a thunderstorm, and all these people had to sleep through that. this situation is dire, the circumstances require immediate attention. these people need immediate medical attention. they need water, they need food, and they are keen to say that they need their help as soon as possible from anyone who can give it. something that they are also very quick to bring up very immediately after the idea of self-preservation here, they are concerned for those left behind. they want to speak to us. to whoever comes. they want to tell their story. they keep saying that despite these terrible conditions, they consider themselves the lucky ones because t at least they

are not still under constant attack by militias. they are worried for their friends and relatives. they describe terrible scenes. many of the dead, the people who continue to die on a daily basis cannot be buried for two, at least two very important reasons -- the people that are there cannot safely bring their bodies to bury them anywhere, and so they are storing them, mostly in their own homes. the dead remain in their own homes. and the other problem that we've heard is that people don't have enough to eat. they simply don't have enough energy to dig the graves, to put the people in. incredibly difficult circumstances here in adre, on the border, at these refugee camps. everyone we speak to says the same thing -- they want the international community to intervene, if necessary, by force. zein basravi in eastern chad for "inside story." ♪ mohammed: alright, let's go ahead and bring in our guests now. in london maysoon dahab,

co-director of the sudan research group at the london school of hygiene and tropical medicine. and here in doha, abdelwahab el-affendi, a former sudanese diplomat and now a professor of politics at the doha institute for graduate studies. a warm welcome to you both. thanks for joining us today on "inside story." abdelwahab, let me start with you today. so the conflict began around khartoum, the country's capital, but the country has spread to many parts of the country. why has darfur become one of the main battlegrounds? guest: i think the therefore, was a starting point -- i think darfur was a starting point for the militia which is not terrorizing khartoum. before that they were as the conflict from the 1990's which unfortunately helped assist the former regime of bashir.

the so-called arab tribes which incorporated many migrants from chad, and the original inhabitants of western darfur, and the tension escalated when the war started in 2002, and later when the government recruited the so-called janjaweed, who are more or less arab fighters. they are small nomadic fighters who include also a large number of north sudanese. what i think has been happening in darfur now is that when the militia of hemeti started some

of this conflict during the past three years, i think from 2020, some of the arab component of residence of western darfur have been engaged in attacks on the civilian population there. hemeti himself went to darfur allegedly to try to quiet things down, but most people said he has been secretly supporting the militia there have increased in power the transitional government, unfortunately, and who are armed with very heavy weapons which

the population there do not have the equivalent of. so i think now, with what is happening in khartoum, maybe the remnants of the militia there in darfur wanted to impose their authority for fear that since people in darfur might think the militia has weakened and tried to arise again. and this is what we see now. adrimohammed:maysoon i saw you nodding along, to what he has said, and it looked like he wanted to jump in. please go ahead. guest: we work with the community researchers across the sudan and right at the beginning of this conflict what has come across from our colleagues in

there, it was quite vivid. it speaks to what he was saying. if i can put it in the words what they say about the situation there, the situation is catastrophic and beyond description. to them, the fact that el geneina in many places in darfur are a bit of a black box. but what we do know about the impact is that it is not only wide reaching and intense, it is also compounded by the history of ethnic conflicts in darfur. it speaks very much of a genocidal playbook that has played itself out once more. as humanitarian researchers, we study conflict the world over, and to be honest, we haven't seen anything like this before. this is in essence nothing short of a renewed genocidal campaign, unfortunately, and perhaps greater impact and are the cover of war. mohammed: let bring in our next guest, director of justice

africa sudan, a human and civil-rights research institute based in sudan. how much concert is there that a decades-old tribal tensions could be reignited in darfur and what would that mean going forward? guest: unfortunately we are back to 2003 and 2004 in terms of the level of violence, and violence targeting people according to their tribe and ethnicity. it is very serious this time because we don't have a functioning government in khartoum. i think that militias are exploiting that so-called the maximum damage to the people in gwadar four. that is in a very dangerous situation now because there is no government to protect them. total lawlessness in darfur. mohammed: abdelwahab, is what is happening in darfur right now, kind of a continuation of the war that broke out there in 2003 and ended in 2020?

guest: in a sense, there are the same partisans engaged, but i think what is different here, in the past, the fight was between at least armed groups. what is happening i think in western darfur is mainly civilians being targeted by by the rsf, which was put there in the last three years as a kind of protection force. it is supposed to be the police and the military there. and it is contracting -- confronting unarmed people and

massacring them in an attempt to subjugate them, and i think this is an important indication that probably the guard, the other african and international mediators don't seem to understand the real problem in sudan at the moment. the real problem is that we have this rogue militia which nothing seems to deter it from doing whatever it could want. like killing people, taking their property in khartoum. there also terrorizing the people, getting into homes and hospitals, stopping people in the road, people disappear like that. and the international community seems to think that what is needed is for the people who are fighting this militia to stop

fighting it. hoping that if that happens, the militia will be tamed and just sit down and be nice people. but what is probably needed is more firepower. i think we should call for international intervention in western darfur at the moment, otherwise we would be condoning genocide. mohammed: maysoon, you were speaking earlier about the catastrophic situation facing therefore, and i want to talk to you about how dire the

i fear that it might be exactly another one. >> so i want to take a step back for a moment. the fighting incident risks a decade old conflict. in 2003 intercommunal violence began when the militia were deployed to put down an uprising of tribal groups. the u.n. says 2.5 million people were displaced. the, licked ended in 2020 the final does -- the fight for men and access to water continues. an individual rose through the ranks of the group.

as we mentioned, the conflict may have ended in 2020, but the dispute over land and access to water has continued. why has that continued? >> i think the fighting between the groups has gotten -- has gone on for quite a while. i think the new liberation especially -- it got in the 2000s between 2002 and 2015 and the militia were small and number and were under control. and they had all the security against -- the numbers were small. in the past four or five years.

the number of the militia heaving the formal [indiscernible] as forces which was the first part in the security breach and became part of the army. and then became independent of the army and it was given -- [indiscernible] it was given a kind of official act. it was not officially a government force and it wasn't their fault. so it is supposed to be the protective agency of the people there and they have now changed this and is acting on a sole account for this. i think this is a danger we have we are in now. because in the past 4-5 years, the military, the police, and all were wicked.

and we have this kind of official, but now a rogue militia. i think, and they, these people have an agenda. and that his -- and that thrown them out. and this is the way -- example has gone. host: thousands of people have been crossing into neighboring chad to escape the violence. for those who are a to diffley how difficult and dangerous is the journey? >> i will quote my colleagues again in this. they said they try to move to a place of safety across the border and it is a suicide mission. it is incredibly difficult. many people do manage to get out, but at a great cost. many do stay. because of the history of the conflict in places like this, the populations tend to be concentrated and highly pop

related residential areas that tend to be safer. at the beginning of the conflict those that were not able to leave have been in large dormitories and shelters. those have been shelved. since there there is an estimated 200,000 internal displaced living in open air with no shelter or safety. they say everyone of the heavily populated neighborhoods -- when the militia enter, they burn it to the ground. they run, they pillage, and especially those who are unable to run. the elderly and handicapped and the lined. and we had from our colleagues -- heard from our colleagues reports of violence against women gender sexual based violence in terms of rate -- rape. the

decision is difficult and fraught. the decision to stay is sometimes not a decision you just have to stay. it is deadly area host: i want to follow you -- with you to ask about the kind of humanitarian group that you been able to get. is that not happening right now? is there any hope that there could be a humanitarian corridor are set up for a humanitarian actor would be able to access the people who need aid and medical help most? >> i can summarize the humanitarian access of the word -- in a word at the moment which is nine. there is no humanitarian access. even within the city itself, moving about to provide support for members of your own community can be deadly. much of the response that is being mounted is very much a localized community led effort. it is extremely hampered by security situations. colleagues described scenes of just stepping out of their house

and putting a hand out or foot out and being shot at by's diapers. -- by snipers. boat they -- what they have to do in some neighborhoods as operate secret neighborhood clinics. they have clinics that are outside that are only available to those who know how to get there. but this is not filling in the void in any way. of course, while we ask what it is that you need. and they say we need argent security and provision of humanitarian corridors to provide basic health services and establish this place people accounts to provide full services to those people. but the reality is we do not know when the corridor will be open for humanitarianism. we need to push for that. there is no way around it. as long as people can step outside -- cannot step outside of their houses, no one is safe inside and no one coming in. what we want toors the

ability to map the first responders to understand who is doing what way are. and to call the humanitarian health community to change quickly. we need to adjust the situation and support the first the raw -- responders that are on the ground by any means necessary. it and we can take an example from the civil society for these groups. this would be union groups in the u.k. that have mobilized to support community led initiatives -- providing whatever they can from a distance to mobilize those health categories that are inside. and to get them through until the corridors are opened. host: how much concern is there about unrest in destabilizing neighboring countries in particular, chad for example. >> -- displacement and people

moving to chad it sells, the support because the infrastructure in chad is very poor and the chadian have said clearly that they are not able to provide the support for these people and i think that is clear. if this continues at the same level, and i think we will see more people fleeing to chad and central africa. and this is unstable. they have security programs, they have problems and that will complicate things even more. that is what i am saying. we really need a humanitarian protection for these people. and humanitarian assistance to allow access to manage area and work in order to protect them. the main problem is now protection. most of them are agencies working on getting to the staff

because they cannot secure -- varies no access to these people. i think what we need, if we want to at least two contain this problem to some extent is to have force which provides protection for the military. -- for the workers -- for the humanitarian. because people are coming and this will be a problem in addition even more it is a problem and this is due to displacement and also -- that will help us shape the problems even more. action is needed from that international committee as otherwise the people -- will lose their life. host: have any of the seas buyers going into a ashes these sliders going into it -- cease fires -- are there concepts to get things under control?

>> it should be unequivocal centiliter -- sent to the leader that if this does not stop now, if he does not stop what he is doing, and stop terrorizing people, his organization should be hunted. i think this is the only way you can stop this. host: i am sorry to interrupt you we just have one minute left. i want to ask one last question. from your perspective, what has to happen in order to ensure that either a humanitarian corridor can be set up or people who are most in need of aid can get it? >> that is the million-dollar question. that answer has to come from external sources. theguest: that is the million-dollar question. the people of this region have been subjected to compound

vulnerabilities. we are not talking about a war inflicted yesterday or a month ago or two months ago. we go back 20 years. these are communities that have been brought down to their knees. so their essential resilience and their ability to speak out and change things on their own is not there. my colleagues have alluded to the fact that the external pressures are absolutely essential. they are trying to amplify their voices, to describe what a hell on earth they are living in, but they cannot be asked to do more than survive the moment. so to open these corridors, we need to continue to put the pressure externally and to make spaces where we can, little and incremental is a way forward. but in the meantime, let's be realistic, those people who are

on the ground are responding as we speak, they need our support now. we cannot wait. there are ways to be able to do that and to put our hats on and follow the lead of civil society here which has shown an incredible way forward. mohammed: alright, we have run out of time we will have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of our guests, hafiz mohamed, maysoon dahab and abdelwahab el-affendi. and thank you too for watching. you can see the program again anytime by visiting our website aljazeera.com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page, that's facebook.com/ajinsidestory. you can also join the conversation on twitter. our handle is @ajinsidestory. from me, mohammed jamjoom, the whole team here in doha. bye for now. ♪