07/07/23 07/07/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> about 1500 fossil fuel lobbyist working in the u.s. museums, art galleries, green groups, you name it. they are working -- they have

shed lobbyists. am the pasthree days have been t hottest on earth. me say in 100,000 years. weill speawith guarded porter oliver milman about double agents, fossil fuel lobbyist work for u.s. groups trying to fight climate crisis. and we will talk to bill mckibben who says the sun that is cooking us could cool us, too. amy: then to guatemala where election officials have rejected an attempt by the rule in and political elite to overturn results from the first round of a presidential election where the progressive anticorruption candidate came in second and will now be in the race, a runoff. >> we will fight corruption because if we do not, we will not achieve development and fight poverty. in we will go to guatemala city for the latest.

and we will speak with author shadi hamid about "lessons for the next arab spring." >> the obama administration gave what amounted to a green light to general sisi to proceed with the military coup of july 3, 2013, and we are marking this week the 10th anniversary of that coup -- which in some ways marks the end of the arab spring as we know it. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the world's average surface temperature has soared to its highest level ever recorded, surpassing acord levels of heat measure just a day earlier and the day before that. this week's hottest days came as climate scientists warned last

month was the hottest june ever recorded with 2023 on track to become the hottest year in human history. meanwhilin rort -- a new rert warns chaing weatr patterns and ereme headue to the clate cris will exacerbate global food crisis with lower crop yields anticipated in the near future. we will have more on the climate crisis after headlines with guardian reporter oliver milman and environmentalist bill mckibben. in the united kingdom, members of the climate action group extinction rebellion shut down operations at the nation's largest coal mine wednesday in a nonviolent civil disobedience action. the open-pit mine in south wales had been operating without a license. elsewhere in the u.k., climate protesters disrupted play at the wimbledon tennis tournament twice wednesday, throwing orange confetti on the court and displaying t-shirts reading "just stop oil."

on thursday, youth climate activists disrupted a speech by u.k. labour party leader keir starmer, accusing him of u-turning on his pledge to fund a transition away from fossil fuels. >> we are on the side of economic growth -- >> [indiscernible] >> will you let me finish this and i will talk about it? thank you, very much. >> we need a green new deal right now. amy: in sweden, greta thunberg and other youth climate activists have been charged with disobeying the police for peacefully blocking oil tankers at a port in malmö last month. if convicted, the protesters face fines and up to six months in prison. the biden administration is announcing it will ship cluster munitions to ukraine as part of a pentagon military aid package. the weapons are banned under the convention on cluster munitions,

an international treaty signed by more than 120 countries -- though not by russia, ukraine, or the united states. investigators with human rights watch have documented how cluster bombs used by russia and ukraine have repeatedly killed and injured civilians. the group warns unexploded bomblets left behind after cluster attacks will continue to pose a risk to civilians for years to come. former senior u.s. national security officials have held secret talks with prominent russians believed to be close to the kremn with the aim of laying the groundwork for negotiations to end the war in ukraine. that's according to a report c news citg half a den unnamed soces who we reportedly briefed on the discussis. the statdepartmentaid the biden administration did not sanction the discussions and denied encouraging them. israel's military fired artillery shells on a pair of villages in southern lebanon thursday after two missiles were fired toward israel. there have been no reports of injuries in the exchange of

fire, which came after israel carried out one of its largest military operations in decades on the occupied west bank city of jenin. an israeli court has acquitted a police officer over the shooting death of an unarmed autistic palestinian man in occupied east jerusalem. iyad el-hallak was a 32-year-old special needs student who attended and worked at a school near where he was shot dead in jerusalem's old city. his killing in may 2020 drew comparisons to the police killing of george floyd in the united states. on thursday, a judge threw out the charges against the officer, whose name was not made public, calling the killing an honest mistake. iyad's mother rana al-hallak said family was surprised by the ruling. >> it is injustice. i have never felt injustice like this. myon is buried in the cemetery and the killer is free and can travel around. amy: in the occupied west bank, israeli soldiers shot and killed at least two palestinian men

during an early morning raid today on the city of nablus. at least three palestinians were wounded in the assault. separately, israeli forces chased down and killed a palestinian man after he allegedly shot and killed a soldier protecting an illegal settlement near blus. at the uted nation secretary generaantónio guterres ndemned a massive two-day sault on jin by isra earlier is week th killed at least palestinis and left more than 100 civilians injured. guterres called israel's airstrikes during the raid inconsistent with the conduct of law enforcement operations and said that as the occupying power, israel has a responsibility to ensure that the civilian population is protected. members of the u.n. security council, including the united states, have voiced support for deploying a multinational armed force to haiti. thursday's meeting came after u.n. secretary-general antonio guterres made another appeal for the international community to act now. >> sexual violence, weapons to

terrorize entire communities. i have heard appalling accounts of women and girls being gang raped and people being burned alive. we're not calling for a military or political mission of the united nations, we are calling for a robust security force deployed by member states to defeat and dismantle the gangs and restore security across the country. amy: haitian officials have requested the international force, but many in haiti have opposed such a presence due to the disastrous history of u.n. and foreign interventions in the country. this all comes as haiti marks today two years since the assassination of haitian president moïse. a haitian government watchdog released a letter yesterday slamming the lack of accountability and the stalled investigation of the killing, reinforcing a culture of impunity and corruption that has endangered all haitians. u.s. treasury secretary janet yellen is in beijing for a

four-day trip aimed at easing tensions between the two nations. yellen is meeting with chinese premier li qiang today. yellen has criticized china's punitive actions and obstacles imposed on u.s. companies, including export controls on minerals and denying market access. the u.s. has imposed its own restrictions on china and its -- and focusing its technology trade with the u.s. this is secretary yellen. >> the u.s. seeks healthy competition in china. were both sides benefit is only sustainable if that competition is fair. amy: climate change envoy john kerry is set to visit china next week to resume talks on the climate crisis. china and the u.s. are the world's two biggest polluters, as well as the two largest investors in clean energy. the u.s. food and drug administration has approved a drug to slow the cognitive decline of patients with mild

dementia and other symptoms of early alzheimer's disease. approval of the intravenously-administered drug leqembi clears the way for medicare and other health insurers to begin covering the extremely expensive treatment. the u.s. geological survey found that nearly half of the country's tap water likely contains at least one type of pfas, also known as forever chemicals. pfas are found in everyday products such as personal care items, clothing, cleaning products, as well as food. they have been linked to a host of environmental and health problems, including certain kinds of cancer. studies have shown nearly all americans have detectable levels of pfas in their blood. over 6000 conservative congregations of the united methodist church, or about one-fifth of the total number in the u.s., of preparing to leave the denomination due to rifts over the role of lgbtqia people in the church. this comes as there's been growing defiance of the church's

policies prohibiting same-sex marriage and the ordination of lgbtq people. more conservative members decided to launch the separate global methodist church as states like texas, alabama, kentucky, and ohio have seen the largest number of departures, progressive congregations are expected to propose new church laws that allow same-sex marriage and the ordination of lgbtq people in 2024. and nepal's supreme court has issued a temporary order green lighting the registration of same-sex marriages for the first time. lgbtqia activists and couples across nepal celebrated the decision. >> so far we are very happy. if it becomes permanent, we will be even happier. >> we hope the permanent marriage regulation order will come as soon as possible. things for us will be the same for us as other men and women.

that would be ideal. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the world's average surface temperature has soared to its highest level ever recorded, surpassing record levels of heat measure just one day earlier in the day before that. this week string of hottest days came as climate scientists warned last month was the hottest june ever recorded with 2023 on track to become the hottest year in human history. meanwhile, new report warns changing weather patterns and extreme heat due to the climate crisis will exacerbate the global food crisis with lowe crop yields anticipated ihe near future. l of thihas added new urgency r broad government action to addresthe clime cris, butuch has en boarded by fsil fuel lobbyis which we will lk more out in a minute with oliver milman.

we begin with author and environmentalist bill mckibben, cofounder of 350.org and founder of the organization third act which organizes people over 60 -- whose new substack piece is headlined "no human has ever seen it hotter: but the sun that's cooking us could cool us too." his latest piece for "the new yorker" is "to save the planet, should we really be moving slower? the degrowth movement makes a comeback." welcome back. it is great to have you with us. the three hottest days in human history, some say in 100,000 years. talk about what is happening and what needs to happen. >> good morning, amy. on the one hand, there's nothing surprising about what is happening. it is what you and i have been talking about literally for decades. scientists have told us as we pour carbon into the atmosphere, this is the inevitable result. what we are sick in 2023, that result come to the fore.

we are seeing truly startling rings. it is a reasonable chance this will turn out to be the hottest year ever recorded. we have already had the hottest days, the hottest week, we just had the hottest june. if you think it is bad here, have some place in your heart for those living in spots that are beyond hot and unlikely to be air-conditioned. last night in cities in algeria, the nighttime temperature stayed above 103 degrees fahrenheit. that is the hottest nighttime minimums ever recorded in africa. all around the world, we are seeing remarkable things going on. this is just as the el niño pacific warming begins to kick into gear. the next 18 months are going to be a time of chaos and havoc as we go to temperatures that no

human has ever seen, no society and no infrastructure has ever endured. we don't know precisely what will happen but we can predict it is going to be very, very hard. we can predict also that this is the last of these moments we are going to have when the world is summoned to action by events and when there's still time to make at least some difference in the question of how hot it ultimately gets. amy: can you talk about the de-growth movement? >> as you know, ever since the limits to growth in 1972i guess, there is been this critique the world can't keep growing as it has been, that it will eventually lead to ecological collapse. eventually, it seems to be coming true. but it is a very strange moment.

on the other hand, we understand we need to increase very, very quickly the amount of green energy and clean energy that we are producing. that requires growing at least one thing, solar panels, wind turbines, batteries, so on. my piece for "the new yorker" was an attempt to square that circle to say, are there ways we can use this moment of extraordinary need for technological change to also produce some social change along the way, to build a different kind of world? we need to make the technological change, and i think we also need to make some really serious social change as we do it or it is a different kind of planet. the good news is we are beginning to see -- beginning to see the payoff from some of that

technological change. texas was the center of the heatwave in the u.s. so far this year, this heat dome that settled over texas and the numbers were astounding. cities were setting new high temperature records 10 days in a row. but the grid did not collapse in texas and it did not collapse, one analyst after another is telling us, because there is a lot of solar power on that grid. four times more than there was just four or five years ago. and that power, not surprisingly, solar panels do well in heatwaves. that power has been enough to keep texas going. of course, and as oliver will make the case in a moment, that i -- the irony is that the texas legislature is busy trying to help the fossil fuel industry and close down its renewable energy but so far it's renewables that are doing the job there.

leave me, chilis around the country are starting to watch because they understand not only is the power cheap, it is truly critical in the world we are headed into now. amy: we have been getting reports of hikers and tourists who have died of the heat. a woman died in the grand canyon national park after falling unconscious during an eight mile hike in over 100 degrees weather , a man found dead in car with two flat tires and death valley. i think the recorded temperature the day before was like 120 six degrees. you had a teenager and his dad in texas. but what about workers around the world as well? >> i mean, the scale of what we're doing is astonishing. you are very right to point that out. one of the things the international labor organization has told us is that our ability to do work outdoors is already something like 10% degraded and

it will be 30%, 40% by mid century. that is the number of hours that people can be out working. there are lots of reports, china is coming through an extraordinary heatwave in mexico has been through a heatwave that makes one in texas look small by comparison. people waking up -- agricultural laborers waking up at 4:00 a.m. to get done what they can for it gets too hot to be outside. we are changing the world and deeply fundamental ways. we are not going to be able to -- we can't stop global warming at this point, all we can do is try to stop it short of the place where it cuts civilization off at the knees. that will require nimbleness and speed we have never seen before. as you know, the iaea has told us we need to cut emissions in

half by 2030 to have any chance of meeting those targets that you reported on in pairs just eight years ago. i my watch, 2030 is six years and five months away. the need to who best has never been clear. amy: does expanding renewable energy read to -- lead to reduction of fossil fuels? recent data shows account for 82% of worldwide energy supply lester even has record wind and solar came online. >> we're going to find out in the next couple of years. it has to. renewable energy right now is at this takeoff point, becoming substantial. it has to reduce fossil fuel use . that is why people were so upset when president biden, who has done souch to snsor newable energy also arted approvinthings le the oi

projt inlaska or the pipeline in aplachia othis w string ofng ports along the gu coast. the piticians are getting tter at ying yes t reneble energy, but ty are no better at saying no to fossi fuel than they were before. that is because of the extraordinary political power of that industry. they are clearly willing to break the planet. it is why we need more activists and more people out pushing. at third act, for existence, we are training thousands of people to take on the public utility commissions in state after state after state. these are incredibly important institutions. they set rates and help determine what facilities the utilities are allowed to build, but they traditionally have been protected by their credible boring this and they've been captured and i was every case by the utilities they are supposed to regulate.

lots of people out pushing in places like that as well as out in the streets for wherever it is. if you are an older person like me, join us at third act and see what we can do. amy: finally, bill, it is beautiful to hear the birds singing behind you in vermont. can you talk about the affect of this global heatwave, the hottest earth ever on the flora and fauna of the world? >> it comes at the worst possible time. we already know that because of lots of things climate but also habitat destruction and pesticides and things, the number of animals on this planet is something like 70% lower than it was when i was born. and now we are being pushed and pushed and pushed. i think in the next few weeks, we are going to see devastating reports from aundspeciall the eans of e planet.

it looks like someing like 40% ofhe earth's seasre going throh with t oceanographers call mine heatwaves. that means widesead bleaing of the coral. we forge sometimes called the planetarth, but if we're being honest, we probly call it ocean. 70% of the planet's surface. and the damages extraordinary. sea temperatures are not just a little bit higher than ever before, they are off the charts. they are off-the-wall. that -- they are off the wall the chart is tacked to. that brutality is when increase unless we get our act together now. they become bill mckibben, thank you for being with us, cofounder of 350.org, founder of third act. we will link to your substack piece "no human has ever seen it

hotter: but the sun that's cooking us could cool us too." and your "new yorker" piece "to save the planet, should we really be moving slower? the degrowth movement makes a comeback." "double agents: fossil-fuel lobbyists work for u.s. groups trying to fight climate crisis." that's the title of a damning new investigation by the guardian that found more than 1500 lobbyists are working for fossil fuel companies at the same time they represent hundreds of cities, universities, big tech companies, and even environmental groups that claim they are taking steps to address the climate crisis. the report is based on a new database by the group f-minus that was published online this week. for more, we're joined by environmental reporter oliver milman, who is also author of the book "the insect crisis." welcome back to democracy now! explain what you found in this contradiction of fossil fuel

lobbyists representing the fossil fuel companies but also, for example, environmental groups. >> good to be with you, amy. there are about 1500 at least lobbyists across the u.s. who do state-level lobbying for fossil fuel companies such as exxon, shell, bp, and so on. they also work some of the most progressive institutions in the country. not only cities such as los angeles, philadelphia, even baltimore -- which is a city that is suing big oil because of climate damages. baltimore shares lobbyists with exxon who is one of the defendants in that case. but also a range of other institutions, museums, art galleries, big tech.

big tech companies who said they do so much to address the climate crisis all share lobbyists with big oil apple shares a lobbyist with the koch industries network. a group that has done so much to delay and denied the climate change and stymie carbon emissions. more than 150 universities that share lobbyists with big oil and gas, including many universities that have divested themselves from also fuels wch is -- fossil fue. such a the university of washington, syracuse university, california state university that have all looked to divest emselves fm fossil fuel yet have lobbyists that work on pushing fossil fueled interests

other days of the week. amy: just to be clear, you have a guy lobbying at the state level one day saying yes to deregulate for exxon because i represent exxon and the next day you have to shut down these fossil fuel companies because he represents the environmental group. >> data says -- we know who the clients are. we know where that overlaps are. you work for exxon on monday, they're going to push the interest of exxon and keep drilling oil and gas. on tuesday, you're working for the city of baltimore that is suing exxon. amy: let's talk about baltimore. in the state of maryland, f-minus reveals f-minus revealed

that many nonprofit organizations, municipal, and county governments share lobbyists with the fossil fuel industry. including the city of baltimore and johns hopkins university, one of the leading institutions in the research of climate change. the database reveals -- "the trustees of johns hopkins voted to divest from coal in december 2017, stating that a 'public and explicit stance will help propel the weight of public opinion toward accelerating the transition away from coal as a source of electric power around the globe'." despite this stance, lobbyist listings for 2022-2023 show john hopkins sharing one or more maryland lobbyists with two companies with substantial coal interests -- nrg energy and holcim participation, in addition to five companies with upstream and midstream oil and gas operations. and in florida, the johns hopkins all children's hospital shared a lobbyist with coal-plant operator teco energy. if you can go more into that? also, a point you make in the piece is that they are then sharing the strategy of an

environmental group or university that has just divested with the oil companies because they represent one on monday and the other on tuesday. >> that is the great danger. one of the justifications of this is that, well, you are one of the best lobbyist if your particular institution, including an environmental group -- and there are several that share lobbyists with big oil. you can be a lawyer that represents trump one day and planned parenthood on another day. you have the professionalism that needs you to have a divide on that. the practical nature of that is of course it is sensitive information. you don't really wanted to be shared with the other side. particularly if you're campaigning against the other side or suing them in court. that danger of a conflict of interest. as you mentioned, johns hopkins, there is this slightly opaque

nature of divestment from many universities where they said they will risk their endowments on fossil fuels and yet students have been pushing for greater details and clarity about what that means in terms of distancing themselves from fossil fuel industry at large. groups have said they are very disheartening universities continue to work with those linked to the fossil fuel industry even though they say they divested. it is clear big oil is not toxic, radioactive in terms of its radio -- reputation as perhaps the tobacco industry may be. these institutions are happy to work with those aligned with big oil if they feel they can get something out of that. amy: can you talk about big tech? >> of course. it may not surprise some people who are cynical about big tech pronouncements on things like climate change but it is still white extraordinary have these

large companies about to do so much to address the climate crisis. apple has vowed to decarbonize this entire supply chain by 2030 and yet it shares lobbyists with the koch network. amazon employees than in 27 different states that also work for exxon another days of the week. google has a lobbyist with seven different fossil fuel clients. the list goes on and on. this is an industry that is been called out several times for not delivering on its promises on the climate crisis and it is clear the wielding of power and influence is far more important to them than staying true to any kind of ideals, distance themselves fully from the fossil fuel industry. i want to get to the insurance industry. he tweeted --

knowing this information, can you talk about state farm halting new home buyers? >> it seems to be going actively against the interest of the company's that are paying these lobbyists. state farm, like you said, they announced in may that will be taking no more homeowners policies in california due to what they call the growing catastrophic risk of wildfires and yet they employ the fossil fuel lobbyist across the u.s.. it seems to be actively working against their own financial interest. they are paying people to -- helping companies create the pollution they then have to pay

for when it comes to insurance premiums due to wildfires, floods, and other climate disasters. ski resorts, too, seemed quite surprising to me. you have these top ski resorts that have lobbyists that also work for fossil fuel interests given the existential risk that global heating causes to the ski industry due to melting snow and glacier loss. it is quite surprising to see these overlaps. until now, we did not know about it. there was not this transparency until now. now it has been revealed and maybe some action might be taken. amy: oliver milman, what are the universities from barred to johns hopkins to the university of washington, etc., and the environment or groups saying about these shared fossil fuel lobbyist? >> two main defenses, one is it is quite normal for lobbyists to

have different clients. it is the way business is done. a cynical way of looking at politics the othe one is that it is beneficial, green groups tell me, well, if you hava fossil fuelobbyist th will help connect yoto politicians you would not normally talk to. republican politician mig not takeour call if you are an environmental defense fund by if you have a fossil fuel lobbyist who they do speak to, can gain access to them. it is a way of gaining access to those in power. a cynical way of looking at things, a way things are done in state citals anof course in washington, d.c., too. amy: amy: oliver milman is an environment a at the guardian. we will link to your new piece at democracynow.org.

next up, we go to guatemala city where election officials have rejected an attempt by the ruling business and political elite to overturn results from the first round of a presidential election where the progressive anticorruption candidate came in second in a shock to almost all, the race leading to an august 20 runoff. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "burning pile" by mother mother. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we turn to major developments in guatemala where election officials have rejected an attempt by the ruling business and political elite of guatemala to overturn the results of last month's first-round of the presidential election. the race is heading to a runoff august 20 between the former first lady sandra torres and the

progressive anticorruption candidate bernardo arévalo. the review of ballots came after the party of sandra torres, who's been accused of corruption, and her allies challenged the results of june's first round. a spokesperson for guatemala's electoral court said in an interview with reuters thursday the final results of the first round election have not changed after the review and will be officially released next week. but the elite sector still refused to accept the results as fear amounts they will continue to interfere in the election leading up to the runoff. protests erupted in guatemala city earlier this week after the constitutional court suspended the certification of the results, which put bernardo arévalo of the semilla, or seed

, in second place, sending him to a runoff in august against sandra torres. rights groups denounced the court's decision as antidemocratic. this is an attorney for the semilla party. >> what is clear is slogan of the official party, supported by parties close to the ruling party, is open as many boxes as possible that will allow them to declare the electoral process no and void so the election can be repeated. amy: bernardo arévalo is the son of former president juan josé arévalo, guatemala's first democratically elected leader who pushed for revolutionary social reforms when he was in office from 1945 to 1951. bernardo arévalo spoke to supporters in guatemala city. >> we will fight corruption

because if we do not fight corruption, we will not achieve development and fight poverty. the persecution of the press is a symptom of the deterioration that this country is suffering under this authoritarian regime. we will fight persecution of the press and harassment of anyone -- we will guarantee freedom of expression, freedom of the press, and freedom of protest. amy: for more, we go to guatemala city, where we're joined by samuel pérez álvarez, guatemalan congressmember with -- who was secretary general of the progressive guatemalan political party semilla. he was elected to guatemala's congress in 2020. welcome to democracy now! there is all sorts of squabbles within the ruling political and business elite right now. first, you shocked by your own

candidate coming in second? and can you talk about what this means for guatemala and if you expect, though it is expected that the elite will seek further recount, annulment, that this runoff wl happen on august 20? >> yes, of course, we were surprised by the results. but it was logical tt the elite and corruption regime were going to fight against us. this review of the ballot, he was just an excuse because they were saying we manipulated th results in order to commit fraud. but it was impossible for us to dohat because we have no onomic resrces. we did not have canditesll over the coury. we are relatively a new political party. so iwas really difficult for us to compete in this election. now they are saying we

manipulated the results. it was game changing for guatala and political perspective stop it is the first time this has happened. amy: can you talk about what semilla represents and what it would mean if bernardo arévalo became president of guatemala? what he ran on his platform? >> we are social democratic party. we have some priities and maybe that scares some political elites were economic elites. we have prioties that will -- democracy is not at its best. the first thing is we are going to fight against corruion and that means administration of reform. the second thing is having an planet works for all.

we plann to pass the first antitrust legislation in the history of guatemala. that is working all of this market concentration and monopolies. that is maybe the most scy things for economic elites. the third thing is education, social security, public services. amy: can you talk about the history of u.s. intervention and how that has led to where we are today? we were just mentioning bernardo arévalo's father, first democratically elected president of guatemala, 1945-1951, in 1954, the u.s. backing united fruit, overthrew the guatemalan president, leading to a number of military regimes, massacres

of people, particularly indigenous in the highlands of guatemala, and how that has brought us to today, to giammattei, the current president who just heard bernardo arévalo talking about the authoritarian government, and what you think needs to change, particularly what should usb doing? what role the u.s. should be playing? >> it is important for us because juan jose arevalo won -- i think we have historical justice and guatemala people on our side. we have a socially credit -- we are looking forward and expecting to have a strong government against corruption and out there to ways. we know we have a polarized

society and it is time to put an end to that. amy: can you talk about giammattei when it comes to corruption? i mean, we have what is known as the political and business ruling elite in guatemala, how they banned presidential candidates, it seems like they did not bother to ban bernardo arévalo because they never realized he would come in second, leading to this runoff against the former first lady sandra torre >> well, actually -- i am not sure if giammattei's presidency is the most corrupt in history, but it sure is the most shameless. they have no legitimacy, not even the intention to solve minor problems. two things for them, stealing everything that could and seeking impunity by perfecting

their judges. we have been speaking up to congress a persecution, which we have been victims in the past also. in favor of freedom of speech -- [no audio]

amy: can you talk about how corruption in this authoritarianism leads to greater migration and the role of the u.s. when it comes to

shoring up the guatemalan government in exchange for stopping that migration? >> actually, some of the consequences of that corruption ele leaving the country is that they do not have any plan for anything but for stealing publiconey. e economic strategy is not working for anyo here in guatemala. the conseqnces are migration it also the increases of violence, inequality, poverty. every time we measure poverty, it is every time higher. that is also political decisions. that is why they have no legitimacy in power. so they might have the constitutional courts, the electoral authority, the congress, executive power, but they do not have the most important majority, which is the people's majority.

amy: there have been protests around political and government elite trying to head off this runoff, stop arévalo from running. are you concerned about them initiating street violence? >> street violence -- amy: violence in the stree. >> i am not sure if they're going to win this one because people are not supporting -- actually, i think the review of the balance was their second plan. it was a big failure for them. i would say it was humiliating for them. with all the media watching and our teams fighting for a third

review, we ended up having more votes than we originally announced. it wasn't a lot, but a couple thousand votes that they tracked wrong. we are stronger than ever. i'm not sure if they're going to be stopping bernardo arévalo running for the second round. amy: samuel pérez álvarez, thank you for being with us, guatemalan congressmen, head of the progressive political party semilla. we will continue to follow what happens this summer. next up, the 10th anniversary of the coup in egypt that ousted its first democratically elected president. we will speak with shadi hamid about "lessons for the next arab spring." stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we ended today show looking at the 10th anniversary of the 2013 coup in egypt when general sisi removed egypt's first democratically elected president in power, let a purge of muslim brotherhood government leaders in a crackdown on dissent. a new piece by shadi hamid is

titled "lessons for the next arab spring." shadi hamid is a senior fellow at the brookings institution and a research professor of islamic studies at fuller seminary. welcome to democracy now! if you can start off by laying out what we now know about the role of the u.s., particularly i've president obama, in response to the coup? >> thank you for having me. washington was directly complicit. i think up until relatively recently, instantly right after the coup 10 years ago, there was a since the u.s. was caught off guard, that the obama administration wanted to do the right thing but did not know how and they didn't really have leverage, and that sort of innocent bystander theory where america acts like, oh, what could we do? we are only the superpower of the world. in recent years, more and more information has come out that

suggests the u.s. played a quite negative role in the months and days leading up to the july 3, 2013 military coup. in my piece and in the book from which it is adapted, i interviewed around 30 former and current senior u.s. officials and was able to get some spicy information on certain key moment in those final days. it is not a positive picture. i do argue explicitly that washington and obama in particular gave what amounted to a green light to the egyptian military to proceed with the coup. we could have done quite a bit more to stop it. we could have threatened an immediate aid suspension before the coup happened. even after the coup happened,

there was a chance to declare it a coup and cut assistance and that is what u.s. law requires in any coup d'état where the military plays a decisive role, it is a legal obligation to cut aid. president obama got away from that were avoided that by not declaring it a coup. there are number of these things that, you know, we piece them together, we can't really say the u.s. did not know what was going on. in fact, some senior officials, in particular john kerry, would actually were quite enthusiastic about the coup. there was this very memorable phrase where he said that sisi was "restoring democracy." he said this after two massacres of muslim brotherhood supporters. amy: i mean, your piece is interesting. i want to read from it because it really tells people how the

government works. you write -- on "a white house advisor who was there walked me through how the conversation unfolded. he said, i came in all hot and bothered and so did a few others that there was a clear letter of the law that said declare the coup, cut of military assistance. we were not even focused on the first thing because only someone who is purposefully obvious getting would say was not a coup . so it was like, when we announce this? that is when i came in, expect in the conversation was going to be about that. and then obama, for the only time i can recall in the years i worked for him, the only time he came in and said, well, so, so we're not quite a declare this a coup so what should we do? i was totally taken aback by that and so were many other people. it completely changed the tenor of the conversation. this is fascinating. i don't know if you want to reveal now who it was was

talking to you, but explain what this means and why you think obama took this stance and what now this has meant? we're talking about thousands of people imprisoned, political prisoners. >> it is worth underscoring what kind of -- how this is such a moral stain on the obama administration's legacy. i consider the coup to be the day the arab spring ended. after that, there was no hope of getting back. egypt is the most populous country in the region. egypt sets the tone. this was not just a minor thing. this was decisive. i hope it will really member in that way. that quote, hearing you read a back to me, i still find it remarkable. i cannot share who it was because that is not the sort of thing this person would want to be known for. but it is really remarkable. as for the reasons behind it,

there are a couple of things going on here. obama also had is very pragmatic side to him where he would say, well, if a coup already happened, let me try to do business with the people who are in power, let me try to get things done, i don't want to much headache if some big pro-democracy agenda -- let's also keep in mind that obama, when he assumed the presidency, wanted to distance himself from the bush administration's so-called freedom -- there is a darker undercurrent where obama come after some initial enthusiasm for the arab spring when it started in 2011, he gets very disillusioned very quickly. one of the things i discuss at length in the book is the sorts of things that obama would say privately and even sometimes publicly about arabs and muslims. there was the famous atlanta

profile from 2016 that reported obama was known to privately choke "all i need in the middle east is a few smart autocrats." he also had another joke where he would say, he would wonder out loud why people in the middle east can't be just like the scandinavians. there was this sense of, why catch the muslims get their act together? why are they always fighting? obama almost felt betrayed because he supported the erb spring or at least he thought he did in the beginning and then he kind of went and said, well, was i right to supported if it led all the civil conflict? and all of these clashes between different parties and ideological orientations? of course, let's remember that obama wanted to pivot away from the middle east. so there was the sense he was always being dragged back in. i think at some point there was a sense of, well, maybe if they were all autocrats will be a lot

easier. the last thing, we have a democratic dilemma in the middle east. we liked democracy in theory but we don't like democracy's outcomes in practice. why? because it is islamist parties that tend to do quite well in the elections, when elections are held in the middle east. the coup was committed against the muslim brotherhood-led government. here is an islamist party that believes sharia or islam law should play rule and we as americans are instinctually uncomfortable with that. we think democracy should lead to good outcomes but when it leads to islamist outcomes, we struggle with that. amy: shadi hamid, thank you for being with us, senior fellow at the brookings institution. we will link to your new piece for foreign policy "lessons for the next arab spring."

his book he has authored "the , problem of democracy: america, the middle east, and the rise and fall of an idea." democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]