07/14/23 07/14/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] nermeen: from new york, this is democracy now! >> so the jig is up, amptp. we stand tall. you have to wake up and smell the coffee. we are labor and we stand tall and we demand respect and to be honored for our contribution. you share the wealth because you cannot exist without us.

nermeen: more than 160,000 actors have begun their first major strike since 1980. and the for first time since 1960, actors and screenwriters are on strike at the same time and shutting down hollywood. we will get the latest. then we look at the catastrophic rise of global hunger. >> 345 million people are facing acute food insecurity. this is a major increase when compared to 2020. it is staggering. nermeen: and then we will speak to grey anderson, editor of the new book "natopolitanism: the atlantic alliance since the cold war." all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm nermeen shaikh. the united nations warns one out of every 10 people around the planet faced hunger in 2022, an

increase of more than 120 million people compared to the year before the pandemic. as many as million people faced 783 hunger last year. the findings come as russian president vladimir putin is threatening to abandon the black sea grain deal, brokered by the u.n. and turkey, which grants ukraine safe passage to export food and fertilizer. unless russia agrees to an extension, the agreement will expire on monday. in kyiv, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy accused putin of using food as a weapon. >> it is very important that there are no threats to food security anywhere in the world, and russia must clearly realize anyone who increases the threats of famine, particularly critical regions of africa, is terrorizing the whole world with

hunger. not just someone individually. nermeen: a senior commander of russian forces in occupied southern ukraine said thursday he was fired after he accused russia's defense minister of betraying troops under his command. in an audio recording posted online by a prominent russian lawmaker, major general ivan popov, who led russia's occupation in ukraine's zaporizhzhia region, lashed out at russian defense minister sergei shoigu and valery gerasimov, the commander of russia's invasion force in ukraine. popov blamed the men for mass deaths and injuries of russian soldiers and blasted them for not supplying troops with enough weapons and ammunition. >> our army has been crushed from the front by the caring and army but attack from the rear by our commanding officers -- ukrainian army but attack from the rear by our commanding officers. nermeen: on thursday, russian president vladimir putin said publicly the wagner group had no legal basis and said the private

mercenary company's legal status needs further consideration. the pentagon says it believes wagner forces are no longer participating in russian military operations in ukraine in any significant way following wagner's failed june 23 revolt. the whereabouts of wagner's former leader yevgeny prigozhin remain unknown. russian lawmakers have unanimously approved a new law banning gender-affirming and other medical care for transgender people. the measure will also annul marriages of trans people and prohibit them from becoming foster or adoptive parents. this is the latest attack on lgbtqia russians, who've faced an intensifying crackdown over the last decade under president vladimir putin. this is a russian lgbtqia rights advocate. >> 72% of trans people experience depression or attempt suicide. 72% of russian trans people.

this statistic is huge. i can predict this law -- this is a leap to increase this numbers. nermeen: the fda has approved the first over-the-counter birth control pill to be sold in the united states. opill is expected to be available from brick-and-mortar stores and online early next year. the milestone comes amid the republican assault on reproductive rights and one year after the supreme court reversed the constitutional right to an abortion. the manufacturer, dublin-based perrigo, has not specified the price of opill yet but said it is committed to making it "accessible and affordable to all." in other reproductive rights news, abortion providers in iowa have filed a lawsuit against the state's recently passed six-week abortion ban. governor kim reynolds is expected to sign the bill into law today. the health and human services department has confirmed the

death of an unaccompanied migrant child who had been in its custody since may. a 15-year-old migrant girl from guatemala, whose name hasn't been released, died monday of multi-organ failure at a hospital in el paso, texas. she reportedly suffered from an underlying illness. she's the fourth migrant child to die in u.s. custody this year as officials have been accused of severe medical neglect and other abuses. canada's interagency forest fire center says it's monitoring 906 active wildfires from coast-to-coast as smoke from the unprecedented blazes is forecast to head south today, triggering another round of air-quality alerts in the midwestern united states. this comes as a massive heat dome stretching across the u.s. is set to intensify over the weekend, impacting over 100 million people. on thursday, phoenix, arizona, logged its 13th consecutive day of temperatures above 110 degrees fahrenheit with the city

on track to break its all-time record of such scorching-hot days next week. actors unionized with sag-aftra are officially on strike as of today. some 160,000 screen actors guild members are joining around 11,000 film and television writers who have been on the picket line since may, effectively bringing hollywood to a standstill. the strike prohibits members from acting in and promoting them. actors are demanding better pay and protections in an era where low-residual streaming services dominate and ai threatens the livelihood of entertainers. this is sag-aftra president fran drescher. >> it is a slippery slope into very dangerous time and a real dystopia these corporations think they can put human beings out of work and replace them with artificial intelligence. it is dangerous and it is

without thinking or conscience. nermeen: we'll have more on this story later in the broadcast. in pittsburgh, pennsylvania, a federal grand jury has ruled the man responsible for the deadliest anti-semitic attack in u.s. history is eligible for the death penalty. the 50-year-old gunman was found guilty last month on 63 federal hate crimes and civil rights charges for his attack on worshippers at the tree of life synagogue in 2018. he still faces state charges, including 11 counts of murder. writing in "the forward," beth kissileff, the wife of rabbi jonathan perlman who survived the massacre, said she was glad the jury found the shooter guilty and eligible for the death penalty, but added -- "i hope they do not vote to carry it out. the best way to commemorate those lost is to not to focus on revenge but to find a meaningful way to emulate their deeds and honor them." fox news is facing another defamation lawsuit for spreading falsehoods in the wake of the 2020 election.

on wednesday, trump supporter ray epps sued the far-right network after former host tucker carlson repeatedly accused him of being an undercover fbi agent who incited the january 6 insurrection at the u.s. capitol. epps says he and his family have since received death threats. his lawsuit states -- "as fox recently learned in its litigation against dominion voting systems, its lies have consequences." in april, fox news paid $787 million to settle dominion's lawsuit charging the network defamed the voting machine company by airing false conspiracy theories it helped rig the presidential election. fox news still faces a $2.7 billion lawsuit brought by smartmatic, another maker of electronic voting machines. egypt has announced the sale of $1.9 billion in state assets amid an economic crisis and record-high inflation. the sale of 32 state companies -- including hotels, telecom,

and oil firms -- to egyptian investors and a united arab emirates investment fund is part of a turn towards privatization . egypt has also imposed austerity measures, including cuts to subsidies for fuel, water, and electricity in exchange for billions of dollars in loans from the international monetary fund. nearly one-third of egypt's population lives in poverty according to government figures. and in italy, outrage is mounting after a judge cleared a school employee of groping a 17-year-old student, arguing the assault didn't constitute a crime because it lasted less than 10 seconds. the student from a rome high school reported the 66-year-old school employee after the incident last year. he admitted to touching the student without consent but claimed it was a joke. social media users responded by posting videos in which they grope themselves for 10 seconds, accompanied by hashtags which translate to #10seconds and #briefgroping. and those are some of the headlines.

this is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm nermeen shaikh. amy goodman is traveling today and will be back on monday. television and film actors are heading to the picket line today after the national board of the screen actors guild voted unanimously to go on strike. the vote came after talks with a federal mediator aimed at hammering out a new labor contract failed at the 11th hour. more than 160,000 members of the union are taking part in the first major actor strike since 1980. the strike comes two and half months after hollywood screenwriters also walked off the job. this marks the first time since 1960 that actors and screenwriters have been on strike at the same time. as actors join writers on the picket line, they demanding better pay and protections in a era were streaming services dominate an artificial intelligence threatens the livelihood of entertainers. sag-aftra president fran

drescher spoke thursday. >> what happens here is important because what is happening to us is happening across all fields of labor by means of when employers make greed their priority and they forget about the essential contributors that make the machine run. we are the victims here. we are being victimized by a very greedy entity. i am shocked by the way the people that we have been in business with our treating us. i cannot believe it, quite frankly. how far apart we are on so many things. how they plead poverty, that

they're losing money left and right when giving hundreds of means of dollars to their ceos. the entire business model has been changed by streaming, digital, ai. this is a moment of history that is a moment of truth. if we don't stand tall right now, we are all going to be in trouble. we are all going to be in jeopardy of being replaced by machines. you cannot change the business model as much as it has changed and not expect the contract to change, too. we are not going to keep doing incremental changes on a contract that no longer honors what is happening right now with this business model that was foisted upon us. what are we doing? moving around furniture in the

titanic? it is crazy. so the jig is up, amptp. we stand tall. you have to wake up and smell the coffee. we are labor and we stand tall and we demand respect and to be honored for our contribution. you share the wealth because you cannot exist without us. thank you. [applause] nermeen: that was sag-aftra president fran drescher, who is well known for her role in the 1990's sitcom "the nanny." the alliance of motion picture and television producers, which represents major television and film producers, accused the actors union of walking away from negotiations. in a statement, amptp said its offer included historic pay and residual increases, as well as a "groundbreaking ai proposal that protects actors' digital likenesses."

well, to talk more about the strike, we are joined by shaan sharma. one note of disclosure, democracy now! in place are represented by sag-aftra but are covered by different union contractor than actors. shaan sharma is joining us from salt lake city, utah, where he has been on the fourth season of "the chosen." welcome to democracy now! explain and elaborate the reason for this strike. what are the demands? >> well, first of all, we did not ask for this strike. we have been negotiating in good faith for over a month. we had a truncated negotiation to begin with simply because of the writers guild negotiations and the directors guild negotiations giving us just three weeks. we came in with a very fair package from the very beginning of the process, and it became clear to us pretty quickly that the representatives of our employers were not interested in negotiating with us in the same

way and they were stalling us. we granted an unprecedented 12 day extension to continue to negotiate, which they wasted, canceled meetings, and seems like it was just a ploy to try to promote their summer movies before they knew we would eventually have to go on strike because there seems to be a concerted effort by these companies to try to break entertainment unions. dga did not fight them in the way that the writers guild did and sag-aftra's. they want us to accept a bad deal. nermeen: could you explain the concerns around streaming as well as artificial intelligence? >> streaming, this is the first year that streaming became the primary way that people consume their media. our contracts are built for very different time stemming from the near television on broadcast networks and cable. so there was a relationship between the shows being able to grab audiences until advertising

and we would have participation in kind of a long tail of revenue that is generated by both the initial broadcast of a program and also the syndication of programs. now with streaming, they've got rid of any of those performance-based tales of revenue that we participate in for a subscription fee that they collect but we don't share any part of that revenue. we haven't squeezed down and shoved out of participating in a major way that are members support themselves financially. with artificial intelligence, they have the technology and are fighting to try to alter the proposal we have to protect our members, try to reconfigure, rewrite the proposal that we are just asking for basic human rights protections to try to have the right to scan as, own our likeness in perpetuity including after we are dead, use as in their movies without any consent, without any compensation to performers, especially background performers. it is inhumane and dystopian and it is very frightening because

we just saw through the pandemic that performers help our culture survive through, for example, once in a generation, once-in-a-lifetime health emergency. at a time when our value is there to our community, seems our employers want to diminish us more than ever. nermeen: as we mentioned come the last some writers i directors were on strike was in 1960. of course there was neither streaming nor artificial intelligence, and ronald reagan was the president of sag which had not yet merged with aftra. at the time, at the end of the strike, both unions had won health care benefits, pensions, and movie residuals. if you could comment on that and what you are still hoping may come out of this? when our talks set to resume? >> we don't have any talks scheduled to resume because we just to strike yesterday. two nights ago we sat across

from our employers representatives and said, we are ready to negotiate in good faith but you clearly have not been operating in good faith. there were threats made against our members by their side of the negotiations, including threatening our careers. they lied to the press. delete things -- they leaked things to the press. they insulted the rights of children onsets and their health and pension contributions. it is been unconscionable what we have witnessed. it is like sitting across the table from the sociology that seems to be in charge of america today where apparently ceos can get performance-based bonuses but employees that make all of that possible do not. it is frightening situation we are faced with. there's no current talks that are scheduled. as for the 1960's, i would not be an actor today but was not for the health plan established a great cost by the sacrifices of our members could 1960, including them for going all of

the residuals up until that point to establish the pension and health plans we enjoy to this day. that health plan has been guided by our employers over the last 40 years to the point where members like the late great ed as her he's to be president of the screen actors guild come he gave up all of his residuals before 1962 establish the health plan only for him to be removed from it at the age of 91 when the health plan was forced to make changes because our employers have not improved the employer pension and health contribution caps that fund our health plans. we are in an existential moment both with ai but also to the basic rights of health care and the ability to pursue what we love and have retirement income after prosperous career. nermeen: you mentioned corporate america and that position of prominent ceos. let's go to disney ceo bob iger who appeared on cnbc monday and criticized the actors union for calling a strike. >> i think it is very disturbing

to me. we have talked about disruptive forces in this business and the challenges we're facing and the from kobe -- which is ongoing. this is the worst time in the world to add to that disruption. there's a level of expectation they have that is just not realistic and they are adding to the set of challenges this business is already facing that is, quite frankly, very disruptive. >> they're not being realistic? >> know, they are not. nermeen: that was bob iger who makes 27 many dollars a year. he was speaking from sun valley, idaho, where he is attending a gathering that has been described as a summer camp for billionaires. if you can respond to what he says and also people have a sense that hollywood is all about celebrity and enormous sums of money for performers, but i want to quote what an actor said on thursday, she said

"it is a very, very small percentage of the 160,000 plus member union that can actually make a living off the work that we do." if you could talk about that? respond with the disney ceo said and then what -- how many people make a living wage from acting. >> that interview with bob was incredibly sad for anybody who works in entertainment and especially those of us who create the work that allows for him to be paid as highly as he is paid. it is so tone deaf to think someone like him who can -- i think it is contract he is going to get a 500% bonus to his base salary based on the performance of disney stock, where as the performers that company its value, they are refusing to allow us to protest the paint in the revenue that we generate for them. these companies have engaged in

absolutely reckless spending a programming over the last few years trying to compete for descriptions, which we don't participate in any of that revenue. now that they have overextended themselves and starting to shift to more advertising-supported model, similar to television, now they are claiming poverty simply because wall street is not demanding growth but demanded profitability. that is not our fault. we are the employees. those risks the companies have taken is on our backs. or him to lecture us about being disruptive, they have disrupted the lives of all of our members were trying to make a living in this industry. shame on him percent something like that. as our president said, the reason we have unions is because people don't to the right things. a 70 was made career out of entertainment, he should know better than to condescend to the performers i give his company value. i don't really know what else to say about that. nermeen: could you talk about the issue of audition pay, which has been required for over 86 years but never been put into

effect? >> that is not actually true. in the early days of our unions, everyone was under contract. all most all of our performers were contract players, which means not only were they paid for their auditions, they were paid a weekly salary, also developed with acting classes, dancing classes, etc. we were as heads of these studios. -- we were assets of the students. with the olivia havlin decision challenge those contracts, those systems and what used to be known as the studio star system, started to end. for independent performers who were not under contract, we were in total compensation for the creative labor we put into our additions. but now that the studio star system is gone away, virtually, none of us are under contract. the addition paper visions ensure the creative labor we put into their preproduction process

of productions, where we actually interpret the material, help them see the writing in a new way, leads to changes in the storytelling sometimes they will rewrite the part or script. we contribute our intellectual property to the preproduction process and that was always meant to be compensated for but, today, we are now forced to carry the burden of the casting process because they're no longer doing in person casting, forcing us to take ourselves in our own homes using our friends and family as free labor for these auditions, and they expect us to do it all without compensation. our members were not aware these provisions were in our contract because we have a contract literacy challenge within our union where our members do not read and are not educated properly about their contracts. we are changing that. but none of that changes the fact not only are we doing the technical labor that casting used to do, we are doing the creative labor we have always done, now friends and family are being treated as free employees to read with us for our auditions.

addition paints a very important way we can eject almost $1 million into our working as members of the union, which the previous question, only 12.5% of our members qualify for health insurance. 87% of our members do not earn over $26,000 a year, and that is a shocking thing for the performers of 170,000 strong performers we have that do most of the tv and from work that is professional that the amptp. . produces nermeen: thank you so shaan sharma much shaan sharma,, sag-aftra and a member of the negotiating committee. ♪♪ [music break]

nermeen: "dear whoever" by our previous guest shaan sharma. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org. i'm nermeen shaikh.

we turn now to look at this week's major nato summit in lithuania with the military alliance agreed to invite ukraine into nato at some point once conditions are met. ukraine's president flume or zelenskyy blasted the lack of a timeline as absurd. this comes as nato is moving closer to expanding once again. earlier this week, turkey dropped its opposition to inviting sweden into nato. once formally approved, sweden will become the 32nd nation in nato, which began in 1949 with 12 founding members. we are joined now by grey anderson. he is the editor of the new book "natopolitanism: the atlantic alliance since the cold war." he co-authored a recent piece for "the new york times is -- "the new york times" titled "nato isn't what it says it is." welcome to democracy now! if you could respond to what happened at the nato summit this week? >> thank you for having me

on. the two big news items, turkey's abandonment of opposition to swedish alliance and refusal to grant ukraine more concrete guarantees concerning the timeline for its own eventual membership. i don't think either of these developers is terribly surprising for someone who has been following the story has unfolded. at the same time, one can understand i think why the government in kyiv disappointed not to receive more substantial counties. yet a guest on recently that really invoke the precedent of another summit 15 years ago in bucharest at which the alliance on the initiative of george w. bush made the fateful decision to promise not just ukraine but georgia eventual membership in the alliance. i think although the role of nato and nato expansion in triggering this conflict has

been very controversial, today most i think people would agree this 2008 decision was a fiasco. it was neither fish nor fowl. the promise i membership one day without timeline or any precise notion of what it might occur was sufficiently strong to provoke russia without offering ukraine security guarantees substantial enough to deter eventual russian aggression. i think one can perfectly well understand why the ukrainian leadership today is extremely sensitive to any sign that american and nato support might be waning. nermeen: could you speak specifically about the significance of finland joining? finland shares an 830 mile border with russia. >> to an extent, finland's

membership and what looks to be sweden's membership don't change a lot. both have been very active in the alliance for some time, including on the military side, participating in joint maneuvers and what have you. the prospect of creating a plan to defend, as you say, this extraordinarily long frontier with russia, does underscore the element of realism in alliance military planning. nermeen: explain your peace co-authored with thomas meany headlined "nato isn't what it says it is." explain what you mean by that and what is nato? >> to historically has claimed to be i think three things, really. the first is a collective defense organization, military alliance, and the second and alliance of values. the third, and alliance of democracies. to take these three claims in

reverse order, it is quite clear from the history of the alliance that the democratic character of member states was open to negotiation or perhaps deserved -- portugal, founding member. remained on good terms with the alliance. today i don't think anyone would argue that turkey, poland, hungary are great advertisements for the sort of liberal democracy touted by the alliance. on the question of values, much the same thing can be said, it bears mentioning i suppose as well when voters in member states or potential member states have shown signs of disapproving membership or lack of eagerness and listing in this american-led letter organization, their voices have most often simply been dispensed with stuff on the specifically

defense or security-aggregating side of the equation, throughout the cold war, nato's claims conventional defense were always rather far-fetched and i think recognized as such. since the end of the cold war, the dissolution of the soviet union, one could argue far from strengthening insecurity, nato, by precluding the creation of a more coordinated autonomous european defense, is actually weakened the states that compose it. i think on all three of them's points, one can say nato is not what it has professed to be. on the other hand, if you look at the history of u.s. debates around the alliance and its function, really from its inception when the pack turned into an organization at the end of the 1950's, there was quite self-conscious recognition of the fact this was an excellent vehicle for defending u.s.

interests in europe and preventing the emergence of any rival power that might threaten. in that respect, one has to say their deep continuities in nato's functioning, and it is been quite remarkable success. nermeen: you right -- "nato is working exactly as it was designed by postwar u.s. planners, join europe into a dependency on american power that reduces its room for maneuver far from a costly turkey program, nato secures american influence in europe on the cheap." if you could explain how precisely is it that nato's presence in europe enables the u.s. to defend its own interests in europe by weakening the capacity of sovereign european states to pursue their own defense objectives and economic, as you say? >> in a very concrete way, nato by imposing a regime their eyes

by model all in the 1990's -- madeleine albright in the 1990's in the eve of the first post-cold war expansion described as nato and its relationship to europe is a duplication of american capabilities by europeans, any de-linking of european secured from american interests and objectives and any discrimination on the part of europeans against non-eu nato members. one effect of that is in a very concrete kind of way, to make europeans dependent upon american doctrine, un-american weapon systems -- on americans weapon systems, leader command. those are ways in which this relationship of dependency is quite visible. the less visible ways in which european dependence on the u.s. for security gives america

leverage over other types of decision. so we might get to this in a minute, but if one looks at europe's relationship to china currently in the context of sino-american tensions, when the u.s. decided to impose effectively in embargo on certain types of technology, microchip technology going to china, one is struck by how quickly the are paeans fallon line, in particular, the dutch accepted i think a couple of months ago these restrictions. that is sort of the tip of the iceberg as it were and what is most easily seen -- nermeen: finally, grey anderson, you quoting your peace the french president on the eve of the nato summit four years ago, effectively saying nato was undergoing nothing short of "brain death" in other words, the alliance was extremely weak. that was four years ago. is it because of russia's invasion that the alliance has

now been not only resuscitated but in fact strengthened? >> yeah, i think it is in part due to the invasion. one might be tempted to look further back. since 2014 with the crisis in ukraine, russia's annexation of crimea, one has seen greater outlays on defense on the part of europeans and a kind of reassertion of america's role on the continent. it has got through of sundance. famously has been plagued by crises of one sort or another. there's no arguing over the past year or so, it has been dramatically strengthened and america's hand in europe i'm a quite remarkably, strengthened as well. nermeen: we want to thank you so much for joining us. grey anderson is the editor of "natopolitanism: the atlantic alliance since the cold war." we will link to your recent "new york times" article "nato isn't what it says it is."

coming up, we look at the catastrophic rise of global hunger. ♪♪ [music break]

nermeen: "bird of dawn" by reem kelani. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org. i'm nermeen shaikh. we end today's show looking at how chronic hunger is still much higher than before the covid-19 pandemic began. this week, the united nations released its annual report on the state of food security and nutrition in the world and found key drivers of food insecurity since 2019 were the pandemic, as well extreme weather shocks, and the war in ukraine. this is the world food program's gian carlo cirri and marco sanchez cantillo with the u.n. food and agriculture organization. >> it is estimated between 600 91 and 783 million people in the world face hunger in 2022. we consider the mid range, which is about 735 million people is

still 422 million people more faced hunger in 2022 compared to 2019 before the pandemic. >> 345 million people are facing acute food insecurity. this is a major increase when compared to 2020. 200 million increase. it is staggering. make of the united nations report found africa remains the worst affected region with one in five people facing hunger on the continent. official site there are currently far off track to end global hunger by 2030. for more, we are joined by two guests. in austin, we are joined by raj patel, research professor at the university of texas at austin and author of "stuffed and starved: the hidden battle for the world's food system." and in million belay is the

general food coordinator of the alliance of food sovereignty in africa. if you could tell us why hunger has been rising in africa for the last 10 years? >> thank you very much. staggering, as you say. it is very concerning. for the last 10 years, there's been an increase in africa. this is exacerbated by the covid, conflict, the climate crisis. all of the three are not from africa. the covid in the conflict between russia and ukraine, but we are suffering.

[inaudible] talking about numbers. i'm not sure much they're alleging behind all the numbers -- people are going to be without food. [indiscernible] i think all over africa and nations in the report, the food is decreasing. also the crisis --

what surprised me is the solution given by many of the speakers, the technology, increasing food production -- nobody is addressing the cause of the hunger. i asked myself, why africa? why? the report says the suffering and latin america and asia -- all of the countries in africa are affected. the question is, why? one, it is historical. starting from the slave trade and colonization and post colonization. africa slowly but surely --

produce food for outside market, mostly. [indiscernible] without using gmo's or hybrid seeds. this is a powerful narrative. it is crippling. money to allocate for the production of food or to improve the agricultural system. and on top of this, elite capture of our countries and our systems.

[indiscernible] really not thinking about the country but themselves. the problems are compounding the problem in africa. nermeen: raj patel, which also respond to the findings of this report and in particular speak of where they say food security has increased they say, for instance, food insecurity is less prevalent now in latin america and also in parts of asia but then in africa it has been in decline -- hunger has been increasing for the last 10 years? >> food insecurity, we are hearing so many numbers and so many different kinds of understandings of what hunger means. the sort of really chronic,

high-risk food insecurity when you're in a conflict area. food insecurity is the uncertainty about whether he will be able to eat over the next few days, weeks, or months. 2.4 billion people are food insecure. but that security can be an million rated not -- and million rated not by producing more food, but by government interventions, by having a functioning social safety net. there are places where governments have been able to divert funds during the pandemic to provide some sort of cushion for their citizens. the capacity to do that has a lot to do with debt. sub-saharan africa is particularly indented and is part of a group of countries that is going to see the debt

costs rising over the next couple of years while other parts of the world see those debt ratios going down a little bit. so that is partly the way of explaining why do some countries are able to provide good functioning safety nets because they don't have creditors breathing down their next. sub-saharan africa, all of africa, particularly under the thumb not just of lenders like the world bank or bilateral -- individual country donors, but also the private sector. things have changed rather dramatically the past couple of decades where 20 years ago, really the big lenders to countries in the global south righteous is like the world bank or the international monetary fund, these multilateral donors. increasingly, private sector lenders are lending to governments and their interest

rates are higher and they demand to be paid. that is a problem when we are experiencing food price inflation and when we are experiencing surges in the levels of interest rates. if you are a government in africa, you are having to make some very difficult choices about whether to divert what funds were able to muster to make sure your citizens are fed or you pay back your private creditors -- private sector creditors. nermeen: who are these private sector creditors and what are the terms of the loans that they give to countries? >> private sector loans are a few points higher in terms of interest rates on the concessional loans that are given by the world bank. so the terms are not as generous. they were able to be a bit more agile in terms of their lending.

they easily shift toward borrowing from either lenders who are interested in infrastructure, lenders interested in buying up land, and those lenders can either be local private capital markets or they can be international pension funds, for example, endowments for universities -- we've seen a lot of important action, for instance, because the harvard endowment from activists in brazil who have observed the endowment is involved in certain kind of lending activities that involve land grabbing. the private sector lenders themselves vary but what is always true is there loans are more expensive and onerous when it comes to the financing. one thing that gets forgotten in this, how is it that governments are repaying the loan? their growing food not for local consumption but for export.

the vast irony, food is being grown for the global north to eat or worst case, to be fed to animals that richer consumers get to eat. here's this deep irony we're talking about structurally higher rates of hunger around the world and the way that governments are trying to pay off the debt they are incurring try to feed people is by growing food not for consumption by their local populations but for export. nermeen: million belay, o -- give out the structural conditions under which these loans are being given, what kinds of food systems are in place and be promoted. you co-authored an open letter to u.s. aid that called on it to fund sustainable food systems in africa not another industrial green revolution. it began -- "we are dismayed to learn that the u.s. agency for international development recently solidified its

relationship with agra and committed to working with agra to transform african food and agriculture systems." could you explain your concerns? >> i think agra, as his name implies, is a revolution. agra is implemented what it planned to implement. [indiscernible] he operated for about 15 years.

one area they succeeded is changing policies. regulations. on the things they say they would succeed, meaning increased food, [indiscernible] a decrease in the diversity production indigenous food. you know? we have looked at the research. they have done their own assessment. in light of this -- ask them to defund agra.

agra can be a good source but looking at the funders, looking at the people were interested in the work, looking at its purpose, looking at the board, we don't think that could happen. it is mostly outside control. so that is why the u.s., which is using public money to fund -- to stop funding agra. nermeen: raj patel, what are the food aid systems in place which critics say may be exacerbating hunger conditions? and if not exacerbating them, certainly not improving them. >> historically, the u.s. was

tethered to a way of providing food aid that really was about shipping u.s. food in u.s. carriers to different parts of the world as a way of providing a prop for local food -- local farmers and industrial food producers. but what we are seeing more particularly as million is saying with things like the alliance for a green revolution in africa or agrama that doesn't want to be known by their green revolution name, think it is bad branding, what you're saying is funding for the transformation of agricultural systems toward providing for processed food for cities. as million was saying, this new stages of food, the world food security report has another interesting figure, one that has not been seen before, which is the figure of the number of people on earth who are able to afford a healthy meal. it turns out 3.4 billion people cannot afford to eat healthily.

this is striking when set alongside something like the allies for green revolution in africa which is interested in processing and growing food for cities in ways that are not necessarily with healthy diets but much more around supporting industrialized food systems, in particular, moving us toward culture processed food. -- toward ultra processed food. now the bags are increasingly being questioned by nutrition community. but in general, the question of how it is we are going to feed cities sustainably not just in africa but around the world is one that is gradually coming to the fore. our economic policy, agricultural policy, food systems policies not just in the global south but around the world, is not fit for purpose. it was set up to support large

industrial food producers, providing packaged food cheaply for workers in cities. as it becomes clear first of all that food is unaffordable and increasingly it is clear it is unhealthy, all of that suggests we need a real turnaround in our agricultural food and aid policy and the agencies tasked with overseeing that are doing little to address it. nermeen: if you could address what is an immediate possible threat to food access, russian president putin threatened to abandon the black sea grain deal brokered by the u.n. and turkey which grants ukraine say passage unless there granted an extension it could and as soon as monday. if you could talk about what impact this will have if the agreement expires? >> these agreements have been grounds for certain amount of speculation on international commodity markets, not just for

food but also for fertilizer. fertilizer costs have dropped since the beginning of the war in ukraine where there was a frenzy of buying up and speculation but it is still a level far higher than before the conflict started but also far higher before the pandemic. this is an ongoing problem in two ways. first of all, there is the risk of a commodity price spike for producers, that is going to raise -- for consumers, prices have continued to increase and this will merely add to that misery. but by increasing the price of fertilizer, you kind of lock in these price increases for grain producers that farm industrially and that is badly not just for the short-term, but the medium to long-term as well. nermeen: finally and briefly, million belay, if you could talk about some of the community-based organizations that are working for food

justice across africa? >> [indiscernible] we work with 50 networks all over africa. a number of members. quite simply, we published an approach written by people who are practicing ecology while increasing productivity, planting foods, reclaiming areas which are degraded, experimenting with seeds for resilience production systems, food forests. a lot of pieces. nermeen: i'm afraid we have to

leave it there, million belay, thank you for joining us general coordinator of the alliance for food sovereignty in africa, or -- and raj patel is a research professor at the university of texas at austin. author of "stuffed and starved: the hidden battle for the ." world's food system."

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