07/17/23 07/17/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> water temperatures off to coast of florida are hitting some of the highest levels on record, creating a dire situation for the coral reef. we are in phoenix, arizona, talking about the scorching heat. there is an influx in patients suffering from all because of heat related illnesses.

stroke, heat exhaustion, as well as third-degree burns. amy: temperature records are continuing to be smashed across asia, europe, and the united states where over 100 million people remain under extreme heat advisories. we will go to texas to speak with jeff goodell, author of the new book "the heat will kill you first: life and death on a scorched planet." then "towards a new era for human rights we will air highlights from a panel i moderated in venice, italy, to mark the 75th anniversary of the universal declaration of human rights. i spoke with volker türk, the united nations high commissioner for human rights. >> cluster bombs should be prohibited. amy: we will also hear from former swedish foreign minister

margot wallström on her opposition to cluster bombs and sweden's historic decision in 2014 to recognize the state of palestine. >> we made it clear we have no interest in making israel our enemy. we wanted to continue to work with israel for two state solution. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. suffocating heat is gripping three continents as the summer's record-breaking temperatures continue to scorch large swaths of the united states, asia, and europe. 100 million u.s. residents remain under extreme heat advisories. in arizona, an unrelenting

heatwave is on track to break the previous record of 18 straight days of 110-degrees-plus highs in phoenix. that is fahrenheit. some of those most at risk include people who work outdoors like construction workers, as well as unhoused people. >> i have been here for 12 years , and i have not seen nothing like it. fell asleep on some hot concrete and my whole lip side got their degree -- hole left side got third-degree burns. amy: europe could record its hottest day ever on the italian islands of sicily and sardinia. over the weekend, italian authorities issued an extreme health risk in 16 cities, including rome and florence. italians flocked to lakes and seasides in an attempt to cool down. >> this is not normal.

i don't remember such intense heat, especially this time of year. amy: in northern syria, displaced people describe the conditions at camps as akin to living in an oven. children and elderly people are some of the most vulnerable and have scarce options for relief amid 108-degree heat. meanwhile, china just recorded its highest known temperature as the thermometer hit 126 degrees fahrenheit, smashing the previous record by 3 degrees. in south korea, at least 40 people have died after days of torrential downpours and flooding. 12 people were killed when 16 vehicles, including a bus, got trapped and inundated in a tunnel in cheongju after a river levee collapsed. grief-stricken locals called out the response of authorities to the disaster. >> it feels like it could have happened to me.

i feel like i have died. authorities should have restricted access. response was insufficient. amy: south korean president yoon suk yeol, who also placed blame on authorities, called for better plans to deal with weather-related disasters which are becoming commonplace due to the climate crisis. at least 100 people have died in india this month as the monsoon continues to wreak havoc with entire towns swamped, while flooding washes away vehicles, bridges, and roads. delhi has received over 90% more rainfall than is considered normal during the monsoon. but the worst flooding has been experienced in the himalayan region of himachal pradesh, where new construction to accommodate tourists has worsened landslides and flooding. this is a young girl whose former school was swept away. >> i used to study in this school and i felt bad with the building was washed away. the studies have children who are from far-off places are also suffering. i feel sad the children are hit

by this loss. our memories are also washed away with the school. amy: here in the u.s., parts of the northeast were pummeled with more rain over the weekend. in the philadelphia suburbs of bucks county, at least five people died after they were caught in flash flooding while in their car. at least 1400 flights were canceled in the northeast as of sunday night. thick smoke from hundreds of canadian wildfires triggered air quality alerts across the midwest. reporting unhealthy levels of air pollution in several states. there were warnings put up by the new york governor across the state. in the canary islands, spanish authorities have evacuated more than 4000 people from the island of la palma as firefighters battle out of control wildfires. we'll have more on the global heatwave, extreme weather, and the climate crisis after headlines with jeff goodell, author of "the heat will kill you first: life and death on a scorched planet." russia says it is terminating the black sea grain deal, which expires today. the deal has allowed for the

safe export of food and fertilizer from ukrainian ports and was seen as essential in combating global food insecurity. today's announcement from moscow came hours after the bridge connecting crimea to russia was shut down following early morning explosions, which killed two people and injured a child according to russian officials. ukraine did not take explicit responsibility, though ukrainian officials told media outlets report ukrainian forces carried out the attack. on the battlefield, ukraine says it is gradually regaining control of more territory amid reports of intense fighting along the eastern front. the u.s. said it will allow european countries to train ukrainian fighters on u.s.-made f-16 fighter jets. meanwhile, russia has vowed to respond in kind if ukraine deploys cluster bombs provided by the u.s. this is russian defense minister sergei shoigu. >> i want to mark that russia has cluster bombs for all locations. they are more effective than

americans and more widely varied. america russia, ukraine, and u.s. are not signatories to a treaty banning cluster bombs. we will have more later in the broadcast when i speak with volker türk and margot wallström , both opposed the use of cluster bombs. president vladimir putin said he plans to go ahead with a trip to south africa next month to attend the brics summit despite a warrant for his arrest issued by the international criminal court. as a member of the icc, south africa would be obligated to arrest putin. unicef said friday at least 289 migrant children drowned while trying to reach europe so far this year, around twice as many as in the first six months of 2022. over 11,000 children made the treacherous journey across the mediterranean since the start of the year according to the u.n. agency. many of them were either unaccompanied or separated from family. a unicef official called for better protections for young asylum seekers, lamenting, "hundreds of girls and boys are drowning in the world's

inaction." libyan border guards have apprehended at least 80 exhausted and dehydrated migrants after they were rounded up by authorities in neighboring tunisia and abandoned in the desert without food, water, or shelter. the group was among hundreds of black african asylum seekers forcibly expelled from the city of sfax to tunisia's heavily militarized border with libya. refugees have faced abuse from authorities on both sides of the border, with accounts of rape and sexual assault. on sunday, tunisia's government signed a strategic partnership with the european union, pledging to crack down on migrants attempting to cross the mediterranean to seek asylum in europe. the agreement comes after the european commission said it was considering an aid package for tunisia worth over $1 billion. in mexico, authorities apprehended over 500 asylum seekers this weekend in the state of veracruz as the mexican government intensifies its crackdown on migrants attempting to reach the u.s. border.

more than 200 people, including children, were found in an abandoned trailer with many of them with symptoms of severe dehydration. at least six people were arrested for their role in transporting the hundreds of migrants, who were mostly from central america and cuba. stricter immigration policies in mexico and the u.s. have forced asylum seekers to rely on smugglers and take on deadly routes to reach the united states. in mexico, a journalist was shot dead saturday in the state of guerrero. nelson matus was the director of a local news outlet that reported worsening violence in the region. matus was gunned down while he sat in his car in the parking lot of a store in the city of acapulco. he had survived two other assassination attempts, including one in 2019. rents morality police have -- a ran's morality police began patrolling the streets for the first time since the death of 22-year-old mahsa amini in its custody in september. her death had triggered nationwide protests.

the move comes as iranian authorities are escalating efforts to arrest women who are deemed in violation of the strict headscarf dress code rule. this is an iranian student at a protest in tehran sunday. >> you think morality police can prevent women from not wearing hijabs? the number of people who do not obey is too high now. they cannot handle all of us. amy: back in the united states, the justice department has opened an investigation into conditions at atlanta-area jails following the death of another prisoner. fulton county officials say 19-year-old noni battiste-kosoko was found unresponsive in her cell in the atlanta city detention center last tuesday. she was arrested on a misdemeanor warrant and held without bond. this follows the death last year of 35-year-old lashawn thompson, a black man who was being held in the fulton county jail's psychiatric wing where his family says he was eaten alive

by insects and bedbugs in his cell. assistant u.s. attorney general kristen clarke says the probe will look into reports of deplorable conditions in fulton county jails, lack of access to medical and mental health care, and the use of excessive force by staff. in washington, the house of representatives has approved a record-shattering military budget of $886 billion for the coming fiscal year. lawmakers approved the national defense authorization act on friday by a vote of 219-210, with all but four democrats opposed. the legislation appears doomed in the democratic-controlled senate after republicans included amendments barring the pentagon from reimbursing the expenses of personnel who travel out of state to obtain an abortion. this is democratic congressmember greg stanton of arizona. >> today nearly half of servicewomen no longer have access to abortion care, many live hundreds of miles from the nearest provider. access to abortion should not

depend on where someone lives or where they are station. defense secretary lloyd austin said the dobbs decision would "interfere with u.s. military's ability to recruit, retain, and maintain the readiness of a highly qualified force." amy: other amendments added by republicans bar the pentagon from paying for gender-affirming medical care and hormone therapy for transgender people and ban the display of lgbtqia pride flags at military bases. house republicans refused to allow a vote on an amendment by democratic congressmembers mark pocan and barbara lee that would have slashed $100 billion from the military budget. and the education department said friday it is canceling $39 billion in federal student debt for over 800,000 borrowers. the plan will benefit those enrolled in income-driven repayment plans who would or should have qualified for relief after making monthly payments for 20 or 25 years but did not because of oversight, errors, or shortcuts taken by loan servicers. the move, which has been in the

works for at least the past year, comes two weeks after the supreme court struck down president biden's student debt plan that would have eliminated $400 billion in student loans for some 40 million people. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. coming up, the heat will kill you first: life and death on a scorched planet. we will speak with rolling stone reporter jeff goodell about his new book. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we begin today's show looking at the suffocating heat gripping three continents as the summer's record-breaking temperatures continue to scorch large swaths of the united states and europe and asia. china just saw its highest

temperature in recorded history, topping 126 degrees fahrenheit, smashing the previous record by 3 degrees. in northern syria, displaced people describe the conditions at camps as akin to living in an oven, with children and elderly facing few options for relief from 108-degree heat. meanwhile, one third of people in the u.s. face excessive heat warnings for advisories this weekend and europe could record its hottest day ever this week. italian authorities have issued an extreme health risk in 16 cities. >> as you can see, there are lots of tourists here in italy and several have collapsed in the last few days because of heatstroke's and that includes a british tourist who passed out in front of the coliseum. >> in spain, thermal imaging

resembled the sun as ground temperatures reach a blistering 140 degrees. forest fires ripped for the spanish island of depalma, destroying homes and displacing hundreds. more than 1000 miles away, the heat fan the flames in croatia as well. >> what are temperatures off the coast of florida are hitting some of the highest levels on record, creating a dark situation for the coral reef. >> we're in phoenix, arizona, talking about the scorching heat. there's an influx in patients suffering from heat related illnesses. heatstroke, heat exhaustion, as well as third-degree burns. amy: the heatwave in arizona is on track to break the previous record of 18 straight days of temperature suppressing 110 degrees plus fahrenheit. some of those most at risk include people who work outdoors, as well as unhoused people.

all of this comes as a u.n. climate change report from the earth could pass the dangers to pitcher threshold in the next decade that can make climate disaster so extreme, we will not be able to adapt unless urgent action is taken to reduce carbon emissions. for more, we are joined by longtime climate reporter jeff goodall, whose new book is just out titled "the heat will kill you first: life and death on a scorched planet." he says he decided to write it after he walked for 10 blocks in phoenix on a 115 day and nearly passed out, making him realize he had radically underestimated the dangers of extreme heat. jeff goodell has covered the climate crisis for over 20 years at "rolling stone" magazine. his guest essay in "the new york times" is headlined "in texas, dead fish and red-faced desperation are signs of things to come." jeff, welcome to democracy now!

congratulations on your new book. you described heat as a "first order threat that drives all other impacts of the climate crisis." explain. >> we are seeing these extreme heat events right now that you just described in your intro, drawing everyone's attention. but it is important to grasp that as we burn fossil fuels and loading the atmosphere with co2, we are -- we are raising the temperature of the earth, which is driving all of these other climate impacts that you have described and that we talk about when we talk about climate change like sea level rise, drought, the wildfires that have been burning in canada. heat is the primary driver for this climate transformation we are undergoing right now. it is this invisible force that

is changing our world. amy: talk about your experience, yourself, you write in your guest essay " "in texas, dead fish and red-faced desperation are signs of things to come." you can argue that texas has done this to itself, the planet is getting hotter because of the burning of fossil fuels. this is a simple truth is clear as the moon in the night sky, no state has profited more from fossil fuels that texas." i'll elaborate on this, and don't speak in soundbites. give us the whole meal. >> happily. i moved to texas for five -- 45 years ago. i lived in the northeast. it was eye-opening moving here because texas really is the belly of the beast when it comes to both the energy

transformation and the impacts of climate change. this is a state that was built around fossil fuels with tremendous riches here as a result of our dependence upon fossil fuels. there is tremendous sort of economic and cultural inertia around oil and gas in this state and you feel it everywhere you go here. but it is also the state with his transformation toward clean energy is happening very quickly. we had an extreme heat dome in the last couple of weeks here. there was a lot of concern about the grid going down and the grid was ok. largely because of 25% of the power going on the grid during the extreme heat wave was from solar power, which performs very well in hot weather and not only more reliable but cheaper. we have -- even texas is making

this transformation to a cleaner grid. the problem is it is not happening fast enough. in texas, you feel the changing of our climate in a very dramatic way. there is risk of sea level rise in houston, $30 billion dike beginning to be constructed to protect the petrochemical industry and the houston shipping channel. there is the heatwave we have been suffering through in the last few weeks. there are water shortages. i was in the rio grande, one of the most productive agricultural regions in the country, and the rio grande is drying to a trickle. there are cascading consequences here where you are feeling the world changing beneath our feet, and yet the politics and culture of this place are lagging far

behind those changes. amy: we have been talking about this for, well, since it was enacted, as the deadly heat wave groups texas where you are, governor greg abbott signed a bill eliminating mandatory water breaks for construction workers. i want to play a clip of the texas afl-cio deputy director of policy and politics. >> texas is the deadly state when it comes to construction. one worker dies every three days in our state. more workers die of heat related illnesses in our state than any other state. amy: this is the mayor of the petro metro, houston, sylvester turner, who warned the bill would have devastating consequences for people working outdoors. >> house bill 2127, if it is allowed to stand and prevent the municipal government from saying

to employers that under extreme weather conditions like heat that you can't mandate -- be mandated to provide water breaks, then can you imagine the number of workers who are out there in the heat, construction workers, people working on buildings, developments, you name it, that are going to face heatstrokes? some people will possibly lose their lives because they are working in very dangerous conditions. this bill is totally insensitive. it goes contrary to the health and well-being and welfare of workers who are out there doing -- working under conditions that most folks would dare not work under. amy: that is the houston mayor turner. jeff, he was talking about the

bill, hoping it would not be passed. it has been passed and will soon go into effect. >> it is. mayor turner called it insensitive and i would say that is a gross understatement. it is barbaric. i live here. i see what it does like working outside. i see these workers building the buildings going up here in austin -- boston is a boomtown. there is construction everywhere. it is hard for me during the heat waves to walk to my mailbox to check the mail. the idea working on a rooftop or laying asphalt outside in this heat and you're forbidden from taking water and shade breaks, i mean, it is like back to sinclair lewis' "the jungle." i don't know how else to explain the spent -- but you talk about there's a kind of racism to this. many of the workers that are

keeping the state going are mexican. they're coming across the border. there working incredibly hard. it is a kind of politics rising here in texas that i have no kind of good moral explanation for how this can be justified in any way. in my book, i write about the death of a worker in oregon who died in the fields because he was afraid if he took a water break and shade break he would lose his job. this kind of -- this law the governor -- the legislation the governor has signed is going to directly result in the death of many texans. amy: in your new book "the heat will kill you first: life and death on a scorched planet," jeff goodell, you write about what happens to our bodies as the heat rises above 107 degrees

fahrenheit. you say as the heat rises, the proteins unfold in the bonsai keep the structures together break stop at the most fundamental level, your body unravels. your insights mel and does your insides melt and disintegrate. you hemorrhage everywhere. take it from there, jeff. >> that is sort of the end. to begin, our bodies are finely tuned sheens that work in a very narrow temperature. all of us understand that to a degree. if you have a temperature of 100 degrees, something going on in your body, 101 or 102, or calling the doctor. 105, you're going to the hospital. we all know this in our lives. but we don't understand the risks of that in an outdoor environment, these kinds of extreme heat event.

we only have one mechanism to cool down and that is sweat. when it gets hot, our heart starts pumping faster and it is pushing the blood away from our organs and brain, which is one of the reasons why you get kind of dizzy or lightheaded when you're suffering from extreme heat. as it pushes the blood away from the internal organs, it cools off your sweating, it puts enormous strain on our heart. a lot of the people who are most vulnerable to heat or those with heart conditions, circulatory issues, taking medications that are related to that. girl body is in this desperate attempt to dissipate this heat. -- your body is in this desperate attempt to dissipate this heat. you are in an environment where your body cannot sweat enough or you're not tricking enough water and lose the ability to sweat recently cannot dump enough heat out of your body to keep your internal body temperature from

rising about 101, 1 hundred 2, 1 hundred 3, 105, then things start happening that you described, which is your literally the membrane of your cells begin to melt, the proteins begin to unfold, and your body will literally melt from the inside. it is a horrible way to go and it is something -- most people who die of heat stroke don't get that far. it is usually heart attack or something like that that causes death. but it is also one reason why heat mortality is dramatically underestimated between our accounting of it. unlike a knife or gun shot, there's no heat wound. a lot of people die of heart attacks or other circulatory problems, and they are never diagnosed as heat deaths.

these sort of mortality numbers you were reciting in the opening and eyesight and my book are widely understood to be grossly underestimated. amy: in your "new york times" op-ed -- talk about the goldilocks zone and also why you don't like the term "global warming," jeff. >> the goldilocks zone is a phrase that scientists use who are looking for life on other planets. what they're looking for is planets that are not too cold so that -- they're looking for liquid water. if the planets are too cold, the water is ice. if it is vaporized, it is gone. they're looking for this medium

temperature planet, what they call the goldilocks zone. i use it in my books because all life on our planet has evolved under this relatively stable climate. just as we are able to maintain our steady temperature in this sort of given climate zone we have evolved into, so is it true with pine trees and lizards and polar bears and sharks in the ocean, all living things have this sort of thermal range you can deal with. one of the profound things that is happening as we heat up our planet is we are moving out of that goldilocks zone will stop not just for us as humans, but for all living creatures. that has profound implications in the distribution of life on our planet. it means people are going to move, animals are going to move, plans are going to move. they need to migrate to cooler

places. if they can't, they die. it is a very simple proof and one that has enormous consequences for politics. you talk to your intro about refugees moving from various countries in the political consequences of that. we will see more and more of that and see more changes could disease patterns as animals carrying various microbes move into new places. a simple example of this is mosquitoes. they are very sensitive to temperature and they move into hotter places carry diseases like dengue and zika and malaria with them. we are seeing this in the drying out of forests that are causing these bigger and hotter wildfires that are causing smoke that is -- has inundated the east coast in recent weeks. changes in the goldilocks zone

are profoundly rearranging life on our planet. that is why heat is such an important force to understand both in the way it impacts our body but also in the way it impacts the sort of dynamics of life on our planet. amy: have you been shocked by how fast this has happened? what do you think needs to happen? >> yeah, i think anybody who has been watching this, covering, talking about climate journalists like myself and scientists who have been looking at this for a long time are both shocked by two things. one, how rapid the changes are that we are seeing given the levels of co2 we are at. and also by the predict ability of it in a certain way. we have known, exxonmobil has known for a very long time that as we burn fossil

fuel end up co2 into the atmosphere, the temperature is going to rise. broadly those productions have held accurate and true and we have known for decades. the fact we have got essentially nothing to stop that rise is terribly disappointing and surprising at the same time. what do we need to do? we need to stop burning fossil fuels. that is what is driving temperature change on the planet. we also have to think differently about the risks we are running. we have to understand something like -- i think about book as a survival guide for the 20th century. we have to understand the risks of extreme heat in these extreme events, what to do, how to handle it, who is vulnerable, how to better address that, how to democratize air-conditioning,

how to build cities in a different way that incorporates shade, how to address events like extreme heat for the most vulnerable communities, cooling centers, things like that. we have not at all come close to grasping the scale and scope of the crisis we are facing, and that is the straightforward reality of where we are. and america we have 10 seconds. >> i am hopeful we can use this transformation to build a better and cleaner a more healthy world that we need to really grasp what we're doing. amy: jeff goodell's new book is called "the heat will kill you first: life and death on a scorched planet." up next, just back from venice, italy, where i spoke to volker türk and the former swedish foreign minister margot wallström about cluster bombs, palestine, sudan, and more.

back in 30 seconds. ♪♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. "towards a new era for human rights." that was the name of a two-day conference held this weekend. friday night, it was held at the historic unesco office in venice, italy. the conference was organized by right livelihood to mark the 75th anniversary of the universal declaration of human rights. this year also marks the 40th anniversary of the historic

world conference on human rights which was held in vienna in 1993. on friday, i moderated a panel on the global set of human rights looking at the recent u.s. decision to send cluster bombs to ukraine, the war in sudan, as well as palestine. the role of civil society and elevating human rights issues and the role of the media. speakers on the panel included volker türk, the united nations high commissioner for human rights, eamon gilmore, the european union special representative for human rights, and the former swedish foreign minister margot wallström. she was also the farmer u.n. special -- while she was foreign minister in 2014, sweden became the first member of the european union to recognize the state of palestine. i asked her about how sweden made this decision. >> that could not have come as a surprise.

my party, for a very long time, has programs and of that so it was part of our sort of declaration when we took office as the new government. then of course, yes, things could have been maybe phrased in a different way to give us a little more time. if you look back at things that could've been done differently. but the main issue would not have come as a surprise to anybody, but the response was to make us a bad example so that they would scare anybody else from doing something similar. other countries from following our example. i know this for a fact how this worked in europe. this happened all the time.

the israelis used it as a scare to make sure nobody else followed in the european union. it was a very tough position. we made it clear we had no interest in making sort of israel our enemy. we wanted to continue to work with israel for two state solution. of course this was extremely tough and what i have experienced throughout my years as the foreign minister is if you are courageous and if you take a position, if you follow if you're consistent, then you have to pay a price for it. but without that, things would not move. we would not see an advance for

human rights. somebody must take a first step sometimes. amy: related to this, and this could be to you or any of the people on the panel, is the issue of cluster bombs, the use of cluster bombs. something the united states said last year or year ago is what distinguished putin was that he was willing to use cluster bombs and the shock of seven when president biden said they will send cluster bombs to ukraine. i mean, talking that everything from human rights to the destruction, the environment, your thoughts? >> this is very bad, sad. i really hope -- one would hope ukrainians would say that this is not in our best interest, either. but on the other hand, they ask

for everything they can put their hands on right now because they want to win the war. it is very bad and very sad the west thinks this is the best help they can give to ukraine come to send cluster bombs. i think there has to be a public opinion, there has to be a debate about this. that is what i am hoping. amy: would anyone like to weigh in on that? do you see this as a turning point, where so many countries, more than 100 in the world, have signed on against the use of cluster bombs and now one of those countries, the united states, along with russia and ukraine -- none of them are signatories -- decide they're going to move forward on this, what this means for the direction of the world?

>> i would be very plain on this , i don't united states should have made that decision. i don't take cluster bombs should be used in ukraine. i think we come as margo says, a sad reality. huge amounts of resources are being deployed to provide weaponry to ukraine to enable them to prevail against this war of aggression. but i must say i was surprised and i don't agree with the decision to provide cluster bombs to ukraine. amy: that was eamon gilmore, european special -- this is the u.n. high commissioner for human rights volker türk. >> i want to say something about

this. i was asked the question at the human rights council two days ago. our position is clear. cluster bombs should be prohibited. they have an and discriminate effect on populations for russia, ukraine, the u.s. have not signed the treaty, which is unfortunate. does this work? at the human rights council, we had a dialogue on ukraine two days ago and i got that question, what is the position of the u.n. in relation to the use of cluster bombs? it is obvious it has any indiscriminate effect on civilians -- and partially, the bomblets will stay for probably generations to come. people will live with it. it is true that russia, ukraine,

and u.s. have not signed the treaty but that does not mean under human rights law that we cannot argue against it. any discriminate effect that ammunition has on civilians should not be used. amy: have you spoken to the u.s. government about this, president biden? >> i don't speak to president biden, that we have made it very clear publicly. amy: how do you see this war ending? >> i mean, i think it is important think about the day after. i was in ukraine in december, beginning of december. i met a lot of human rights defenders, victims. one thing that became very clear, the whole civil society

involve no logo in the typical work you do on the human rights front, but they are all involved in the response. you see a shift away from the work they did before, focusing on vulnerable people, people with disabilities, institutionalized -- horrible care arrangements for children. the corruption issues, lack of independent judiciary. those issues -- they can't focus on it now, obviously. but i think it is very important that everyone who supports ukraine has to support ukraine of the future, which means all of the type of issues -- rule of law, independent judiciary, support for the prosecutor general -- that is in line with the international standards. so reconstruction cannot just be the logistical exercise, it has

to be an exercise -- it has to be guided by human rights. amy: are you hopeful? >> hope springs eternal. otherwise, we would not be able to do our work. amy: i was just -- you just heard me talking to the for arne minister -- former foreign minister. you just took a position demanding israel take its occupation, that it has legal obligations as an occupying force of palestine. can you comment on that as the u.n. high commissioner of human rights? >> obviously, it is a complex situation. my first speech to the council in march when there was specific discussion on it, highlights my office on the ground issues a report every

couple of months on the situation, describing what is happening. we make recommendations again and again and again. to both sides, by the way. that is also important. we miss a serious effort to look at the recommendations and implement them. and that is really a problem. we need to find ways that means both parties are able have back channels to talk to each other, find ways to de-escalate. but what we see is an escalation. we're in is what i call the illogic of escalation. it is not logic. it is logical escalation. whoever has any influence needs to find ways and means to de-escalate, de-escalate and find a way to think about the future. amy: israel is the occupying force. palestine -- though israel is

not a signatory to the international criminal court, palestine is. do you think israel should be brought before that court? >> i am not -- of course, accountability is porton. it starts at home. if war crimes are committed, they need to be investigated. that is also one of the recommendations we consistently make to the israelis but also to the other side. they need to investigate. sometimes this happens but it doesn't happen with the seriousness -- amy: you just came in -- >> sorry for the delay. traveling in europe. amy: i didn't mean that you were late, i meant that because you just came in, this is such an opportunity but what is happening right now in sudan. you just made a major statement about this mass grave that was discovered in darfur.

>> sedan was the first country i visited after i took office within three weeks. i met the two warring men. they are warring parties. we concentrate on them. we talk about these two men that are waging a war against each other. totally irresponsible. i had a lot of hope. i was so inspired by what i saw from the sudanese population that i met. i met so many human rights defenders, victims. young people. these resistant committees were established. it is incredible despite the fact there was a second coup in october 21, for a year with brute force, young people, women, and the population particularly in khartoum resisted the onslaught of

repression from the military because i think they have had enough of what happened during al bashir time and wanted to get rid of it. then you have these two men, will we are so close to a civilian transition, to blow it up -- to blow up the country. it has a lot to do with geopolitics, i have two say, because in the past things probably would have been much more difficult to achieve. i mean, there would have been more control over certain things. now it is a free-for-all. amy: geopolitics? >> we have u.s., china with russia, with -- it is chaotic. the security council. i mean, when we had a special session on sudan in the human rights council, there was a group of states that said we should not discuss sudan in the

human rights council, because we should not discuss -- if there's a situation to be discussed, any new situation that emerges. it was quite remarkable how we don't come back to the basic consensus that the world had in the wake of the second world war after the cataclysmic events with the adoption of the declaration of human rights and you to be striving and going back to the past in order to be able to do with the future. yes, when it comes to sudan, a big issue was accountability and justice that was not coming in quick enough. the prosecutor at the international criminal court gave a speech to the security council yesterday. amy: what was found, the mass grave in darfur? >> we had interviewed people because we are no longer present

in darfur because it is impossible, but we have teams in chad who interviewed refugees who came over that we could as a result identify and do our -- to figure out what happened. the rsf, the militias are campaigning -- there's ethnic lensing taken place as we speak. amy: in all of the meetings that have been taking place in egypt and saudi arabia around this, one of the issues of civil society keeps raising our where are they at the table? they feel we would not even be at this point with sudan if they were included. if you could comment on that and then as we began to wrap up this panel, for everyone, the role of both civil society -- how important it is even in you

doing your job, what becomes acceptable to say and what isn't -- and the role of the media? >> margot, when you are in the position of special representative on sexual violence and conflict, one of the big achievements of his acute counsel was women security. this decision when it comes to these processes, there needs to be a conscious effort to bring women onto the negotiating table to include them so they feel part of it, -- every year we do an analysis of how many of the peace to because he nations -- i mean, i don't know if you remember. very early on when the russians and ukrainian set out in the beginning of march, only men. it is so important because each and every conflict when we

emerge from it, when there is peace negotiated, it is always the warring factions that discuss it. it is not the whole of civil society. we have all of these different issues where there wasn't an inclusive effort to bring everyone around the table to discuss these things. it was always left to those who waged the war. we really need to fight back on this. that is critical. sedan is a good example. it was led by young people. it was led by women, courageous women. it was led by those who had just had enough of it. amy: where are they now when it comes to the formal negotiations? >> well, there are no formal negotiations -- well, not very serious ones at the moment. i don't think these two guys are serious about it. they think they can win on the battlefield and they will bring the country to the brink went it

is already close to the brink. i don't know how deep or it can go. amy: and the role of the media? >> of course, -- well, if you look -- i will give you one example. if you look -- i mean, it is so crucial that we have independent, serious media that report on these situations and that they bring them to the table everywhere in the world. if i look at mainstream media today, i am very disappointed. just to give -- i know -- look at what happened. within a week, thinking of the vote in greece and then the submarine, the titanic. watch how much attention was paid attention to the submarine. it was followed minute by

minute. probably 800 people that died horribly, maybe a day, maybe -- if it had been a plane, this would -- four planes crashing, can you imagine what this what i meant? there is an interesting dimension to how media report about what i think is very selective. amy: at democracy now! we called it the titanic disparity. >> exactly. glad you think about it. amy: on that note, we have to wrap up. this has been a fascinating discussion. are there any final words you would like to offer? >> we will have a continuation of our discussion. i think one thing that for me is so important -- sometimes i feel it with politicians these days -- they forget about history or

they don't really want to know much about history. i don't know if that was your experience, margot. with the younger generations, history is sometimes not even known. we need to know about it. we need to know what -- the type of achievements we have had, also on the human rights side. we should be so grateful for what the human rights movement has achieved over the last 100 years. even in the 19th century with the labor movement, have so many different movements. you have all of these movements. that actually gives me a lot of hope that the big issues of our time and of the future, we are able to do it again to the human rights lens because it brings us back to what unites us, it brings us back to what is a solution -- not just the doom

and gloom, it is a solution to problems. we just need to find a new era. we have to think about human rights for the new era, but it is human rights. amy: that is volker türk, the united nations high commissioner for human rights. eamon gilmore, the european union special representative for human rights and margot wallström, the former swedish foreign minister. she was also the former deputy prime minister of sweden and the former head sweden social democratic party as well as the farmer u.n. special representative on sacral violence. -- sexual violence. they were speaking this week and end at a panel i moderated in italy. they were marking the 70 foot anniversary of universal declaration of human rights. as the conference ended, thousands of venetians went out in boats. we joined them to

celebrate the city's oldest holiday, marking the end of the 16th century plague, the pestilence, that killed one third of venice's population. there was a half-hour fireworks display as people cele

hello, and welcome to nhk "newsline," i'm catherine kobayashi in new york. russian leaders have suffered another blow to a link that holds strategic and symbolic value. they've seen an attack on the bridge they use to bury supplies in crimea and beyond. president vl