>> welcome to the program. from record-breaking heat waves to overwhelming floods, extreme weather conditions are causing death and destruction. in the northern hemisphere, summer has been marked with scorching heat. while these conditions are not new, they are becoming more frequent, intense and disastrous. the u.n. says global warming is

fueling this, affecting everything from our ecosystems to mass migration. what should governments do and how might we reverse the damage? first this report. >> water is a luxury in the senegalese village. a dangerous combination of high temperatures and little rain has meant desperate communities. [speaking non-english language] >> we cannot use our wealth for gardening because we will not have enough water to drink. >> similar situations are becoming more common across continents. as global warming intensifies, the u.n. says droughts have become 30% more frequent since the year 2000. the report shows they will likely get worse in the future and last longer.

extreme weather is having disastrous consequences. harder and drier summers in greece have made it difficult to tame wildfires. in italy's capital, record-breaking heat waves are years old and lives alone. [speaking non-english language] >> i am not worried about myself, i am worried about homeless people. >> the heat is unbearable and parts of northern mexico, asylum-seekers in a border city face tough conditions with little protection. [speaking non-english language] >> we need to drink cold beverages constantly to adjust our body temperature, but most of the day we feel low in energy and dehydrated. my daughter slips are severely chapped, even though i give her vitamin water and creams. >> in countries like india, the

challenge is different. a period of heavy rain has caused the banks of this river to burst. now flooding around the taj mahal, niagara city and nearby neighborhoods is worrying locals and visitors. [speaking non-english language] >> we are afraid our houses might get damage, we can not sleep at night because we are worried. >> environmental activists agree the need to address extreme weather conditions is urgent. but more pressing is for governments to implement measures that can prevent them from happening. ♪ >> let's bring in our guests, we have the leader of work on climate change adaptation at the

economic organization of development. and we have for the world meteorological organization. and the head of policy and advocacy of global justice now. a very warm welcome to you. let me start with you john, we knew this was coming. did it happen quicker than we expected? >> the peak we are seeing and weather patterns supporting it are consistent with the advice we have seen from the ipcc. we are seeing damage of the north pole, a lack of ice is resulting in warming which is weakening the jet stream and resulting in locking in weather patterns in the summer.

consistent patterns that are delivering heat waves are one part of the problem. the other part is the persistent troughs, sitting next to the heat waves. persistent storms, heavy rainfall, and these to sit side-by-side. we are seeing this energetic time of year, the persistent extreme heat and the persistent heavy rainfall events. >> you were saying this is not far off from ipcc predictions, the expert panel on climate change that has been looking into this. if we knew this was coming, were we prepared? >> that it's a good question. as he is saying, what we are seeing is consistent with what the ipcc is telling us.

if we are looking at a fourth .5 degree warming, -- a 4.5 degree warming, what we see now may not be what we see in the future, it may become worse. we expect this warming to happen, we are ill prepared for it. after consecutive years of extreme heat waves, cities like paris, london, new york, los angeles are preparing for reducing. but it will take time. some of the measures we can take, veggie ties inc. cities, changing the design of cities, in the meantime, we need to protect vulnerable people. there are measures. in melbourne there is the extreme heat plan, which will

replan cities to decrease the urban heat island effect by four degrees. it may take time to take action. in the u.s. the white house is pouring billions into remaking houses. they would be upgraded to install roofs can bring temperatures down in cities. but all of this takes time. >> it takes time and money. i want to get into the strategies. let's bring dorothy in. you have been part of the movement that has been campaigning around these issues for deck aids. how are you feeling as you watch climate predictions unfold in reality, knowing the choices

that governments and corporations and individuals have made to get us to this point? >> yes, governments, corporations and organizations are aware climate change is happening and is happening faster than predicted. the ipcc is on its six report. big summits, the world economic forum, have put climate change in the concerns. governments failed to do actions that are commensurate to the challenge. they are still following the safe development model. that have created this crisis. on the other hand, corporations, especially those expecting

fossil fuels have spent decades denying that climate change is happening. in fact they have in-house climate experts. but despite knowing that and almost accurate forecast and studies on climate change, now that they have lost another date, the actions and programs are not propria to for the challenge. it is more business than usual. they can continue profiting. you have seen the profits of big fossil fuel corporations reaching historic levels. so shell said they are going back on their commitments made to their shareholders. that means they are not ready to put appropriate actions, they want to continue profiting. >> you were mentioning something about climate nihilism.

i want to -- climate d nihilism. i believe we have hit temperature rise above baseline levels of 1.16 degrees celsius. this is the beginning of a number of years of el niño, which is contributing, and can push us over the 1.5 degree critical threshold. how much of what we are seeing right now is to to climate change, and how much do to el niño? >> we look at the average global temperature to help us guide policymakers. we have seen the global temperature oscillate due to la niña and el niño influences his. what we have always -- el niño influences. what we have also seen is the baseline shifting.

what we have seen in the last three years of la niña, level average temperatures that are higher than the el niño global average temperatures of the 1980's. the cycle is still there, but the background global increase in temperatures is dominating. it is continuing to shift our climates to upset them. i can only stress that the northern hemisphere period is being dominated by the loss of sea ice across the north pole. within that, it will amplify the signal. there are more than one signal

we should pay attention to, more than one part of the globe that is exhibiting stress. at the moment, the ocean temperature anomalies are ac of red in terms of -- it is hard to see any part of the oceans -- 70% of the surface of the globe, where we are seeing anything other than warm anomalies. >> dorothy, hugh mentioned the propaganda that has been shared around the idea of noble warming. a lot of people have invested interests. do you think this extreme weather is convincing people that climate change -- people who did not think climate change was a real threat is changing their minds? do people think the extreme weather is due to climate change and therefore adapting their behavior to adjust to it?

>> that is at least what we hope. in the northern hemisphere, what you are seeing is an enormous amount of damage throughout our economies and societies. they need adapting, this is a political mandate. whether or not those in charge believe it is climate change or not is under debate. what we see is at least, in previous years there was much debate, that climate change adaptation is a task left too small states. but the northern hemisphere is the question, and government action, european countries and northern american countries need

to gear up and accelerate their adaptation measures. in germany, the floods that were -- that cost all loss of 30 billion euros. a change of mind of who is responsible -- as well as the bushfires cost $20 billion in damage. unprecedented events. if you were to put that money into preventing these events, that would save you a lot of money. we do see that things are accelerating. climate change adaptation plans, comprehensive plans are in place. they are trying to -- by setting complete targets. we are saying this is the number

of people we need to save. >> you are talking about adaptation plans, and terms of dealing with the impacts of climate change. given that now we are seeing so much impact on the global north, are you sensing a greater sense of urgency in terms of dealing with climate challenges? mitigations, reducing admission -- reducing emissions or other sectors? >> i would say we have lost a decade or two. now that people are experiencing the impacts of climate change, which has been experienced by people in the global south, or the global majority far longer than here in the north, there is a change of attitude. at the same time, we need to increase the understanding, we see floods on tv, we have to

think of our climate footprints. and also for policymakers, they need to prepare for events beyond current records. enhancing the probability of extremes, planning should be nate on extremes. you also mentioned how the global north and south can cooperate, there must be solidarity, that is why we are doing campaigning in the u.k. for our government to put more climate finance on the table, to do more than usual. i think that is very important. even if at the household level, we understand we need to segregate our waste, or cut electricity use, that will not be enough. what is important is for the huge and historic interests to

cut emissions, for corporations to stop profiting on the shoulders of people from the south, and with the impact on climate. those are important understandings that we need to come into. >> you talked about planning for extremes. time could be running out, john, we know that they are interdependent, we are talking about ocean warming. on climate impact will have an impact on another, creating a vicious cycle, when we have talked about tipping points, when we get into a space that is reversible, people dismiss that as being overdramatic. how close are we to a tipping point now? >> what i am having to talk about, cascading events, i am

not as confident as -- at understanding the story about tipping points. if you want to go to a planet, that is a different story, what we need to concentrate on our probable futures we can envisage within a decade or two. what i can tell you at this point in time, we are seeing forests of the northern hemisphere burn at a rate that is unprecedented. that will cascade into more heat and more smoke events. we should tell stories that are immediate, that should get a response, because they have immediate consequences that we can stop. and if we address those, they

will work on reversing those climate -- putting in place climate repair that will pull back on co2, pull back on methane. we have to stop the forests from burning. because as they spike, they are going to be putting out much more co2 and much more volatile compounds, that once they mix with the normal atmospheric process, the end up with ozone, which is toxic to people. we know there is immediate demands we need to address. if we address those, we are addressing what will push us towards those tipping points. >> you spoke about the notion of climate repair, the idea that there are steps we can take to reverse some of what we have done.

obviously that would require a huge amount of resources and political will. we are heading towards the 28th conference of the parties to the you pay framework on climate change, we are living through the outcome of those three decades of talks. that huge landmark paris agreement in 2015, a lot of people said that was only possible because we saw a bilateral agreement between the two largest emitters in the world, china and the u.s.. we know the special climate envoy to the u.s. has been in china having discussions. what did you make of the tone of those discussions as we head towards another conference of the parties in dubai? >> at least what we can see, they want to set other rifts aside and talk about climate,

and get their minds together to negotiate what they can both put to the table. hopefully that yields an outcome. we all know it is not about negotiation, it is about action. the paris agreement is in force, all countries we talk about, are lagging behind the targets. it is about implementing the commitments and reaching the targets. of course it is up to them, but it is a commitment all countries are falling short on today. >> i want to ask you about the china dynamic. there is some hope that things might shift knowing forward. china is living through heat wave in the north end experiencing extreme weather, flooding, storms in the south. china has doubled down on coal,

and they used more coal because of air-conditioning. the energy infrastructure in china is designed to be dependent on coal. at the same time, china has been scaling up renewables. we know they have become cheaper and more widespread, but that has not been because of the reasons you have been pushing for. it makes more financial sense. does this give you hope that things might be changing, not for the reasons you might be pushing for? >> it is good that key countries like u.s. and china are discussing because they need to cooperate and show climate leadership. we have to understand that countries like the u.s. are historic emitters. china is not a historic emitter.

it is good you have been shown that compared to all of the rest of the northern countries. china's use of renewable outstrips everyone else. it is using renewables more than other countries. and because of its role in reducing solar panels, -- producing solar panels, it is reduced. china plays an important role. one thing about china is that when it puts a plan, it plans a long term. i have been following china since 2005, i have read their five-year program, when they plan, it is for 25 years. they normally deliver, because there is a consistency in the government. unlike in the u.s., although biden put the u.s. back on

climate leadership, but he has a problem convincing congress to follow him. many of the western countries rely on business to do whatever they want to do. a transition needs better planning from the government and ownership of crucial energy sectors. you cannot regulate anything you do not own. there needs to be a bigger role for governments in this kind of steps and measures. i am not surprised when john kerry mentioned they would not pay compensation or reparations to the global south. that has always been the u.s. position. it is not commensurate with her history -- historic role, that has always been there line. that happened in egypt because of the unity of the southern governments. for so long the history is a

history of backtracking, delay, denying the responsibility and obligations of the north and obligations of the northern countries. it is time that they deliver. it is time that, for big fossil fuel countries -- fossil fuel companies -- >> i'm sorry, i do want to throw a last question to john. within the political landscape we live in, seeing what we see in terms of extreme weather, there has been talk about geo-engineering. the idea of trying to reduce the impacts of what we have done to our lynn appeared flying planes up, putting vapor into the sky. for a long time that was discussed as science-fiction. i see the white house and the eu have taken it seriously.

what is your take on that? do you think it is a legitimate, interesting idea? are there other questions of equity within that? have we come to that? >> it is a dangerous idea. partly because we are experimenting with our home. we are already experimenting with our home by admitting so much co2. it is a simple answer, we stop emitting co2. it is another experiment, it is divisive in the atmospheric -- a poor man's choice. it is an engineer's choice. we have had engineers pumping co2 in the atmosphere for a long time.

it is another experiment, you could hypothesize it might be a solution, i do not know if i want to do that with my home. the other aspect to that is, people talk about this, and it starts to look like greenwashing which can delay obvious actions we can put in place right now. we are going to buy ourselves more time. to be honest, that is a fallacy, even if we could put tens of thousands of aircraft into the air, lifting that much dust into the air, that is a huge enterprise. we do not have that sort of infrastructure to lift that much into the layer of the atmosphere to make a difference. >> we are already living through the impact of our previous experiments on this planet. we will have to leave it there.

thank you to all of our guest. -- our guests. you can watch this program again by sitting our website at aljazeera.com. go to our facebook page. you can also join the conversation on twitter, our handle is @ajinsidestory. from the whole team, by for now. ♪

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