08/15/23 08/15/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> today, based on information developed by an investigation, fulton county grand jury returned a true bill of indictment. charging 19 individuals with violations of georgia law arising from a criminal

conspiracy to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election in this state. amy: for the fourth time in five months, a grand jury has indicted former president donald trump. the indictment stems from a sweeping investigation by fami willis georgia, built around georgia's rico low which is often used to go after organized crime. we will go to atlanta to speak with veteran journalist michael isikoff and get a response from latosha brown, cofounder of the black voters matter fund. we will also speak with longtime consumer advocate and former presidential candidate ralph nader who says special counsel jack smith january 6 indictment should include insurrection. >> it is important to say also that all presidents violate laws , he has just taken it to a new and diverse height. but he is doing it so brazenly

that if he gets away with that, he will continue to contribute to the institutionalization of lawlessness by presidents of the united states. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. a grand jury in georgia has indicted donald trump and 18 others, charging them with organizing a criminal enterprise to overturn the 2020 election results in georgia. trump faces a total of 13 counts in the indictment. others indicted include former white house chief of staff mark meadows, several of trump's attorneys, including rudy giuliani, john eastman, sydney powell, and jenna ellis, as well as former justice department official jeffrey clark. this marks donald trump's fourth indictment in just over four months. the indictment is built around

georgia's rico law, which is usually used to go after organized crime. this is fulton county district attorney fami willis. >> every individual charged in the indictment is charged with one count of violating georgia's racketeer, influence, and corrupt organization's act through participation in a criminal enterprise in fulton county, georgia, and elsewhere to accomplish the illegal goal of allowing donald j. trump to seize the presidential term of office beginning on january 20 21. amy: willis opened the probe after trump pressured georgia's republican secretary of state brad raffensperger in january 2021 to "find 11,780 votes" -- that was the margin trump would have needed to defeat joe biden in georgia.

part of the charges also stem from a breach of voting machines in coffee county about 200 miles from atlanta. the indictment alleges the criminal enterprise operated in other states, including michigan, arizona, pennsylvania, nevada, and new mexico. fani willis has given trump and his co-defendants until august 25 to turn themselves in. this all comes as trump is the republican frontrunner in the 2024 race. we'll have more on the story after headlines. in hawaii, the death toll from the maui fires has reached 99 and is expected to climb significantly as 1300 people remain unaccounted for. crews have searched for bodies in only about 25% of the devastated area. it is already the deadliest wildfire in the united states in over a century. hawaii governor josh green spoke monday. >> as i shared earlier, that

field of destruction is incredible. also you know we are well over 2200 structures that had been destroyed, 86% of them were residential. amy: and a landmark climate case, a montana judge has ruled in favor of a group of young people who had sued the state for violating their constitutional rights as it pushed policies that encouraged the use of fossil fuels. in her decision, montana judge kathy seeley wrote that the plaintiffs have a "fundamental constitutional right to a clean and healthful environment, which includes climate." the judge went on to rule -- "montana's emissions and climate change have been proven to be a substantial factor in causing climate impacts to montana's environment and harm and injury." the case was brought by 16 children and young adults, ranging from 5 to 22 years of

age. one of the plaintiffs, 19 year-old grace gibson-snyder, recently appeared on democracy now! and talked about glacier national park in montana. >> watching those glaciers melt, it is such a devastating thing because it's so iconic for the state. it's so essential for the well-being of the people and of the environment here. and it's just beautiful. and i would hate to be a part of a future where that's not present, where that's not a thing that my kids get to grow up with. and so, you know, those are my impacts. and the plaintiffs in the case have, you know, everything from respiratory illnesses that are exacerbated by climate change to a cattle ranch where the cattle are dying because of drought and famine and etc. and so, it's been -- we all have experiences in different capacities. amy: the montana ruling came on the same day that nasa confirmed last month was the warmest july

ever recorded on earth. sarah kapnick is noaa's chief scientist. >> it was the warmest july by a longshot. specifically by more than one third of the degree fahrenheit. that may not sound like a lot, but the margin for most global records is on the scale of hundred of a degree or two. last month was way, way warmer than anything we have ever seen. amy: in other climate news, more than 50 people have died in northern india after heavy rainfall caused devastating landslides. at least nine of the deaths occurred when a temple collapsed in the city of shimla. in ecuador, another political leader has been assassinated less than a week after the assassination of presidential candidate fernando villavicencio and just days before ecuadorians head to the polls this sunday. pedro briones was fatally shot in the northern province of esmeraldas.

he was a local leader of revolución ciudadana, the party of progressive presidential frontrunner luisa gonzález and former president rafael correa. gonzález blamed the soaring wave of violence in ecuador on president guillermo lasso, who dissolved congress in may to avoid impeachment proceedings. gonzález wrote on social media -- "ecuador is living its bloodiest moment. we owe this to the total abandonment of an inept government and a state taken over by mafias." at least 26 people died in the amhara region of ethiopia in a military airstrike on sunday. eyewitnesses said the airstrike wounded at least 55 people. ethiopia's government declared a six-month state of emergency in the amhara region on august 4 after clashes intensified between regional groups and the ethiopian military. there are reports of hundreds, possibly thousands, of arrests in the region since the emergency rule began. the government of the russian republic of dagestan has

declared a day of mourning after at least 35 people were killed and 100 injured by a massive explosion at a gas station. at least three of the dead were children. russian authorities have begun a criminal investigation. in the occupied west bank, israeli forces killed two palestinians earlier today in a raid on a refugee camp near the city of jericho. one of the dead was identified as 16-year-old qusai al-walaji. he is at least the 41st child killed by israeli forces this year. meanwhile, the israeli newspaper haaretz is reporting a palestinian family evicted from their home in occupied east jerusalem has been ordered to pay around $13,000 to the israeli police and israeli settlers to cover the costs of their own eviction. monday marked the 10th anniversary of the rabaa massacre when egyptian forces opened fire on a sit-in where tens of thousands of people had camped out in cairo to protest the ouster of egypt's first

democratically-elected president mohamed morsi. human rights watch estimates over 900 protesters were killed in what the group has described as the "worst single-day killing of protesters in modern history." no one has been held responsible over the past 10 years. the minister of defense at the time was abdel fattah el-sisi, who has ruled egypt for nearly a decade and is a close u.s. ally. under el-sisi, egypt is now jailing about 60,000 political prisoners. this is the egyptian human rights activist hossam bahgat. >> what we are demanding right now is accountability. we believe and we have learned from the experiences of other countries around the world, the time for justice and accountability will come. amy: a warning to our audience, the following story has graphic descriptions up police violence. in mississippi, six former police officers, who called

themselves the goon squad, have pleaded guilty to state charges after they raided a home and tortured two black men. on january 24, the officers burst into a home and then beat, handcuffed, waterboarded, and sexually violated and tasered the two men, michael corey jenkins and eddie terrell parker. they sexual abuse the with a sex device while shouting racial slurs. one of the officers put a gun in jenkins' mouth for a mock execution and pulled the trigger. the bullet lacerated jenkins' tongue, broke his jaw, and exited through his neck. the officers then planted drugs at the scene in an attempt to cover up their act. the officers have also pleaded guilty to federal charges. visit democracynow.org to see our recent interview with the victims michael corey jenkins and eddie terrell parker. some of the officers face life in prison. in nebraska, a judge has upheld a new statewide ban on abortion after 12 weeks and a ban on

gender-affirming care for minors. ruth richardson, the ceo of planned parenthood north central states, decried the ruling saying it was a "devastating blow to nebraskans' fundamental right to make what should be private decisions between them and their doctors." the number of unhoused people in the united states has jumped 11% over the past year, the largest increase in at least 15 years. this according to a tally by "the wall street journal." rising housing costs and the cancellation of covid-19 relief funds have helped fuel the rise in people unable to find or afford housing. and "the washington post" has revealed the smithsonian institution holds a so-called racial brain collection that contains 254 brains gathered in the first half of the 20th century at the behest of a racist anthropologist who was trying to scientifically prove

the superiority of white people. an investigation by "the washington post" found most of the brains in the smithsonian collection were removed from dead black and indigenous people and other people of color, often taken without consent from their families. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. for the fourth time in five -- time in just over four months grand jury has indicted former , a president donald trump as he continues to campaign as the republican front runner in the 2024 presidential race. this is the second time he has an indicted the last two weeks. this time, a georgia grand jury indicted trump and 18 of his allies stemming from fulton county district attorney fani willis' investigation into their attempt to overturn the 2020 election in georgia. d.a. willis announced the

indictment monday at a press conference in atlanta about two hours after it was handed to the judge. >> today, based on information developed by that investigation, a fulton county grand jury returned a true bill of indictment charging 19 individuals with violations of georgia law arising from a criminal conspiracy to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election in this state. the indictment includes 41 felony counts and is 97 pages long. please remember that everyone charged in this bill of indictment is presumed innocent. specifically, the indictment rings felony charges against

donald john trump, ruto lewis giuliani, john charles eastman, mark randall meadows, john -- jeffrey clark. every federal charged in the indictment is charged with one count of violating george's racketeer, influence, and corrupt organizations act through participation in a criminal. -- criminal enterprise and fulton county, georgia, and elsewhere to accomplish the illegal goal of allowing donald j. trump to seize the presidential term of office beginning on january 20, 2021. specifically, the participants

took the biggest actions in georgia and elsewhere to block the county of the votes of the presidential electors who were certified as the winners of georgia's 2020 general election. amy: fulton county district attorney fani willis gave them until august 25 to voluntarily surrender. she says she plans to try all of them together in a trial that she hopes to begin within the next sixth months. earlier monday, a document listing criminal charges to be brought against trump was briefly posted to the fulton county clerk's office website before the grand jury's decision and trump used the apparent error to claim the system is rigged against him. as trump struggles with legal fees, he urged supporters in a fundraising email to "never surrender." the special grand jury in this case heard testimony from 75 witnesses along with other

evidence. one of the most notorious moments in the pressure campaign trump and his allies conducted on georgia officials was a phone call in which trump asked georgia's republican secretary of state brad raffensperger to find the votes he needed to overturn joe biden's victory in the state. pres. trump: look, all i wanted to is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won this state. in d.a. willis opened her probe after this call. part of the charges also stem from a breach of voting machines about 200 miles from atlanta. the indictment alleges the criminal enterprise operated in other states, including michigan, arizona, pennsylvania, nevada, new mexico. fani willis has given trump and his codefendants until august 25 to turn themselves in. for more, we are joined by

michael isikoff, chief investigative correspondent for yahoo news, who was there in atlanta when the indictment was announced. welcome back to democracy now! can you first respond to what has taken place, as history was being made? talk about the significance of these charges at the state level, something that president trump, if you were to become president again, could not pardon himself for. >> it was quite a night and it was a sprawling indictment in many ways, much more comprehensive than the recent indictment brought by special counsel jack smith. it tells the whole story of what took place after the 2020 election and it really zeros in on multiple fronts of fake collector meetings, the pressure on election officials such as brad raffensperger, the false

testimony that trump's surrogates made to the georgia legislature. probably the part that i think would leak out most and perhaps pick the public in the strongest way is the intimidation of election workers. ruby friedman, the fulton county election worker who was targeted by rudy giuliani, and donald trump himself in that phone call to brad raffensperger terrorized, forced to leave her home at the recommendation of the fbi and the indictment lays out how trump's surrogates went to her home in an effort to intimidate her and get her to confess lest she be facing criminal charges herself. it is a really powerful story and it is a personal story.

i think in that way, this indictment is going to connect the people that goes beyond the other ones that have already been brought against donald. amy: talk about this issue of conspiracy. of using ricoh, which is more often than not used to go after the mob, and what you see in this 98 page indictment is donald trump's direct involvement. >> absolutely. look, the use of ricoh is something that willis has used frequently as a prosecutor, as a deputy da, and as d.a. herself. it is georgia -- georgia's version of rico is more expansive than the federal statute that was passed in the nixon era to go after the mafia.

it is now frequently used in white-collar cases and other criminal cases, but it is -- one thing that leapt out in fani willis' press conference last night, she was asked, could people convicted under this rico statute get probation? and she said no, they cannot. the penalties for a rico violation are five weeks to 20 years in a georgia penitentiary. so that is something that i think a lot of people are going to try to get their heads around. amy: michael, this is very significant. there are mandatory minimums here that some and have faced in the past. that means a judge has no discretion. i can't not put them in jail. >> that is what fani willis told

us last night. that raises a whole host of questions when the lead defendant is donald trump. just a couple of other ironies to the use of rico, rudy giuliani, former u.s. attorney, before he was new york city mayor, used rico to go after the mob and people will note he is now being hoisted on his own petard. the law, a version of the law that he used in going after mobsters is now being used against him. mark meadows, white house chief of staff. when is the last time a white house chief of staff was indicted? you have to go back to the nixon era. you look at the range of defendants here. david schaeffer, the chairman of the georgia republican party.

jeff clark, the justice department lawyer. donald trump wanted to install as the acting attorney general to further his goal of staying president. it is really breathtaking in a lot of ways. let's talk about coffee county, about 200 miles from atlanta. you have scott hall tied to the system breach, misty hampton tied -- the election supervisor, also sidney powell, trump's lawyer, all related to the story. talk about the revelation that just came out around an actual breach of an electoral machine and why this is so significant in this case, michael. >> in the indictment, fani willis calls what happened at coffee county a case of computer theft. this was an operation that actually took place after

january 6. still determined to try to find some way, somehow, trump's team believed if they could get access inside to the software, inside dominion election machines, they could find the fraud this sidney powell had talked about, the venezuelan socialist chinese kindness were manipulating the votes on how -- if they could just get inside those dominion meetings. but that was protected. there were instructions to all election officials in georgia they may not release publicly disclosed that data. it was sensitive election technology, proprietary. could not be publicly released. they found a few trump-friendly officials at the local official

who "invited them" which they had no authority to do, and they spent a whole day in coffee county copying, imaging that data they had no right to post a theft, computer trespass, and it is a key part of this indictment and in the indictment, they can link up the chain, including to people like david schaefer who was in touch with scott hall on theeve and during the day they were breaking in to this election office. amy: talk about the fact there are arrest warrants issued as opposed to summons and other of the cases around president trump , where they negotiate everything. the time of the surrender, everything. arrest warrant, it doesn't show

up, thrown in jail, and the others, too. the significance of this. them saying in georgia, they're going to be mugshots, etc. >> it is going to be fascinating to watch over the next two weeks for that august 25 date. does everybody show up? if not, there will have to be efforts at extradition to return the defendants to fulton county for criminal processing. i don't know how this is going to play out. donald trump has shown up in the case of the federal indictment and the case of the new york city indictment by alvin bragg. this one has got to stick in his craw come as it were, more than any of the others. he was obsessed with georgia and now to show up at the fulton

county where defendants are processed and also one other factor to watch here is negotiation of a bond. because under georgia law, there is not a lot of -- if a defendant is deemed to be at risk -- not just a flight -- but of intimidating witnesses, they are not eligible for a bond. so we will see -- we don't know who the judges going to be yet. that judge is going to have a very interesting process to deal with donald trump. and what is the bond set at. fani willis has set out bonds in the past for rico cases for hundreds of thousands of dollars. this one is a much bigger case. so i think there is going to be quite a bit of back and forth about the bond that donald trump

would have two put up in order to secure his freedom. amy: you are writing a book on this. what most surprised you last that it may not come i think the news conference started that 11:37 post of you have been digging into this for a while now. >> just as the sweeping nature of the indictment, the way the indictment ties all of these multiple players to a common conspiracy. i've got to say, you played the clip at the start, the way fami willis chose her words saying this was a conspiracy to allow donald trump to seize power, to seize the presidency. really interesting word that gave a sense of how the prosecutors here are viewing what took place. now, look, donald trump has some

pretty powerful defense lawyers. they are going to be attacked this. his billion-dollar lawyer that has made a name for himself representing rap stars, very experienced defense lawyer. you have to hold back and watch and see how this plays out. but as i said, in terms of the sweeping nature of this, it is really something we have not seen before in all of our coverage of the 2020 election aftermath. i think is going to get a lot more interesting. amy: michael isikoff, veteran investigative journalist, writing a book. when we come back, we will talk with the head of the black voters matter fund. and in to ralph nader. stay with us.

♪♪ [music break]

amy: "the whole world" by outkast. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we continue our coverage of the georgia grand jury's decision to indict former president donald trump and 18 of his allies stemming from the sweeping investigation by fulton county district attorney fani willis's investigation into their attempt to overturn the 2020 election in georgia. this is the fourth time in five -- four months a grand jury has indicted trump as he runs for president again. it comes after trump pleaded not guilty in another case of trying to overturn the results of the 2020 election loss. earlier this month, trump appeared before a magistrate judge in washington's federal courthouse two days after he was indicted. a key part of the election interference charges trump faces relates to a civil war era

rights all that protects the right citizens have have their vote counted. for more, we go to atlanta, where we're joined by latosha brown, co-founder of the black voters matter fund. after news of trump's indictment in georgia, brown said on social media -- "we told y'all that georgia was going to handle trump. this is what happens when you come for us. we return the energy." welcome back to democracy now! if you could talk about the significance of what has taken place in york, in your city, in the capital atlanta. >> thank you for having me. i do think this is a great step forward for voters of georgia that fundamentally at the court of this, voters were being disenfranchise. there was an attempt to disenfranchise voters in the state of georgia and i think what is really interesting and the story is part of what has brought this about is voters,

what i call democracy defenders, having the courage to actually call this to account and called trump and his cronies into account. what was catalytic in this investigation was the voters who let in coffee county that said something is wrong with his count. the cat initially came up 50 votes off and then there was another vote and they said, no, no, something is wrong with the machine. there were voters literally making sure their votes were counted and make sure there was no funny business happening. as a result, you saw democracy defending saying no, something is wrong, they raised a red flag, also see fami willis who said the courage -- this is someone who demonstrated the courage to go after trump and the other 18 defendants, quite frankly, because they have tried to overthrow an election which would disenfranchise millions of voters in the state of georgia.

we are happy that she had the courage to lean into that, even though she has been a target of attacks. we have seen trump even in his recent campaign attack her, to put vicious lies, also put the focus on attacking her because that is what he does. he does the art of chaos and distraction, that he makes the appearance of an enemy of someone so he does not have to be accountable for his own actions. in addition, we know the story of the election workers. ruby freeman and -- two women simply doing their jobs that have endured all kinds of attacks because they were doing their job. trump and giuliani targeted them out. i think this is a real step forward around how do we build a multiracial strong representative democracy? we have to make sure we are defending the practices and

those on the front lines and we're going to make sure we have elections that have integrity and elections that every single vote is counted and those that seek to undermine that will be held to account. amy: latosha brown, i want to turn to ruby freeman, going back to the january 6 hearing, the january 6 attack hearing. describing what they endured. lives forever changed when trump and rudy giuliani claimed the women helped to rig the vote when he lost their state. this is ruby freeman, the mom. >> there is nowhere i feel safe. nowhere. do you know how it feels to have the president of the united states targeting you? the president of the united states is supposed to represent

every american. not to target one. but he targeted me. amy: that is ruby freeman. let's get to the core of this, latosha brown. she was an election worker come as was her daughter. this is about voting. georgia is historic for the fight for the vote for each and every person stop one of the people who has been indicted in this 19-person indictment, the publicist tied to the intimidation of the women. describe what happened and why this is so significant and historic and fundamental to u.s. democracy. >>'s freeman said people came to her house and asked her to make a statement that was not true, to say there was something wrong with the election. she has been harassed.

she can't go and shop. she has experienced all kinds of traumatic experiences because of being targeted. i think it is interesting that one of the consistent things that trump does, while he does go after his opponent, is vicious with women. we see that across-the-board, he has sown in on being very vicious with women. we have seen particularly black women attacked, if i look from fami willis to ruby and her daughter, that there has been an attack come that he is always waged against how do you use intimidation as a factor to get what it is that you want. have to recognize these are workers. this is an election worker simply doing her job to make sure to maintain the integrity of the election. this is someone we should be lifting up. instead, her life has been forever changed because this and and these other conspirators

literally went through extraordinary lengths to be able to intimidate and undermine her credibility in the community. amy: trump mentioned ruby freeman 18 times during his call with the georgia secretary of state raffensperger. >> yes. she has had to have security. she is afraid in her home. he knows that. part of what he has done -- look at the playbook. this is the playbook that you shoot -- create a distraction. he is the art of chaos. chaos is the point. literally target this particular person. it is almost like he says, this is the person who is wrong to meet. as a result, this woman's life has been completely shifted. she says she can't even sleep at night because of how many threats she and her daughter have seen.

amy: we have to tell some secrets out of school. you are part of the beehive last night, or at the beyoncé concert. she has been singing to massive audiences for three nights in atlanta. our team was texting you as you were there and you are putting out pictures of yourself and your friends. i wanted to know, was there any response thereto what was taking place just down the road? >> it was almost -- it was the height of the concert. i am a political woman so my phone was blowing up. let me say, we were at the highest point of the concert where beyoncé was riding a horse and flying in the arab people were having a wonderful, beautiful time. what i signed georgia last on, that is the georgia i desire and deserve and saw so many people stand in the face of joy. we had a good time. amy: what about president trump

coming to campaign in georgia, in your state? the state he said he won, which is the state, of course, that he lost against president biden. how he be received? it is the republican leadership that took him on in georgia. >> i think that is -- the republican leadership took him on to some extent because they saw him as a threat for i think some -- we do have moderate republicans in the state. let's be honest, there are also other voters who were sick and tired come independent voters and other voters sick and tired of the chaos. i don't think this was just around the republicans showing some part because the truth is, they have been very bad with voter suppression themselves. they found legal ways to be able to act to disenfranchise people. they are by far not heroes in my opinion, because they have

undermined this process in many ways. i think you would a bridge too far. you saw them separating themselves from him. i think you will have a hard road. i think it is only going to get worse. amy: the issue that trump supporters are raising constantly, aside from hunter biden, is that this is like one of the bluest counties in the state of georgia, which has many red counties, so of course this is where it is brought. but let's be clear about the county and the da fami willis, the d.a. of fulton county, this is where all of the alleged crimes took place that she is charging them with. didn't she say she wished this wasn't in her county so she didn't have to do this? but the call with raffensperger who was there in atlanta -- and you can take it from there. >> absolutely. he did the crime. at the end of the day, there is

an assumption that what happened in georgia, most of the activity was really rooted in fulton county. that is where the capital is and where the majority of the votes of the state are. he knew that. when he called raffensperger, he knew what he was asking. he knew he was asking, where can i find these votes? this is where the activity took place. it is ironic what he did, while he targeted this area, an area called into account -- let's not discount other places. what we sow in michigan, wisconsin, georgia. there was this call that in many ways when you saw those counties particularly that has sizable african-american populations in african-american voters, there was some attempt to undermine the process and disenfranchise the voters in that area. the outcome and the result is that it has impacted the disenfranchisement -- it could have impacted the

disenfranchisement of the voters. yes, it happened in fulton county. fulton county will hold him to account. amy: that issue that he cannot pardon himself in georgia because these are state crimes? in most states, the governor could pardon him, but not in georgia. this goes back to decades ago klan governor who is so corrupt that he was selling pardons, so the state of virginia took the pardon ability out of his hands and gave it to pardons and parole board. can you talk about the significance of this? so even if there was a republican governor who supported him, that person could not pardon trump. >> if he is convicted in this state, he is going to jail for a minimum of five years. he is going to jail. and the other conspirators that are part of this case. the bottom line, there is no pardon process.

he has been indicted in four different cords. what you see here is the inability in georgia for him to be pardoned. so he -- georgia, i think, has -- i think it is a place he has the biggest problem. it is also the place he was very, very comfortable committing a crime. this is a man that said he wanted raffensperger to find him some bows. we all know what that meant. we all know what that means. it is appropriate that this would be the place he has to face the music that he created. amy: latosha brown, cofounder of black voters matter fund. you're saying trump is going to have to face the music. what is your favorite beyoncé song? >> cozy. comfortable in my skin, cozy.

amy: thank you for being with us. next up, we speak with longtime consumer advocate, former presidential candidate ralph nader. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "hold me down" by noname. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. georgia grand jury has voted to indict former president donald trump and 18 of his ally stemming from the investigation by fulton county district attorney fani willis in their attempt to overturn the 2020 georgia election. this is the fourth time in just over four months a grand jury has indicted trump. in march, trump became the first former u.s. president to ever be charged with a crime and was arraigned in new york on 34 felonies related to paying hush money to adult film star stormy daniels during the 2016 presidential campaign. in june, donald trump becomes the first president to face federal criminal charges as a grand jury in florida indicts him over the mishandling of

classified documents after leaving. earlier this month, donald trump is indicted on four counts -- conspiracy to defraud the united states, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, tampering with a witness, and conspiracy against the civil rights of citizens, the right of their vote to be counted. the indictment centers on trump's efforts to stay in office after joe biden defeated him in the november election. for more, we're joined by ralph nader, longtime consumer advocate, corporate critic, and former presidential candidate. his recent piece for truthdig is headlined "jack smith is one step short of the full case against trump." first, ralph, if you could respond to what to lace last night just before midnight in georgia, the significance of the state charges against trump and 18 others, these rico charges, and then let's go back one to jack smith and your critique of the charges that he brought. >> it is the fourth indictment in just a few weeks have donald

trump in georgia. it is quite a strong case. they have him on the record calling the secretary of state to find votes to overturn the state election results in georgia in the 2020 presidential campaign. going back to jack smith, who should remember trump could be convicted on all these counts and still run for president, still get elected for president with a minority of voters because the electoral college atrocity and because republicans succeeded in suppressing or intimidating so many voters in swing states. so the only criminal prohibition that would disqualify donald trump from the ballot is section three of the 14th amendment called the insurrection section stop it was made into a criminal violation by the federal code a

number of years later. section three is very clear, it categorically disqualifies from public office at any level of government, any official who after taking the north to suppose -- taking an oath to support the constitution. the definition of insurrection fits donald trump's multiple behaviors. it means seeking by force, violence, or otherwise to frustrate the united states to force the constitution of laws. what is more important than to basically count judicially certified electoral votes in the vice president, in this case, mike pence? one thing about trump being a serial law violator is that he does it day after day. he does it overtly.

here is the person who said in july 2019, "then i have article 2 where have the right to do anything i want as president." he later insisted the constitution should be "terminated" by shouts of massive electoral fraud, which was full. he basically told trump on january 6, if i had to choose between me, donald trump, and the constitution. in addition to these federal criminal statutes that he has violated come in addition to obstruction of justice, being a way of life in the white house according to his former special assistant john bolton and obstruction of justice we know is a federal crime, he has flooded the constitution. we are left with jack smith

bringing three counts but not bringing the fourth count on insurrection. he has a huge amount of evidence . the house select committee to investigate the january 6 attack on u.s. capitol made a criminal referral to the justice department recommending prosecution of trump for assisting or aiding the january 6 insurrection. even more specifically, before that, amy, when trump was impeached the second time by the house of representatives, he was impeached for inciting insurrection. a majority of the house voted for it. it was into the senate and a majority voted in the senate 57-43, but with some republicans, i might add, but he did not reach the two thirds requirement for conviction under the constitution. so the question is, why did jack smith and merrick garland omit this?

i am not sure it was jack smith. it could have been merrick garland overruling jack smith. none of them are talking about why they omitted the insurrection count. i think a speculation is that they don't want to go to the next stage and infuriate trump's supporters. riots in the streets and all. amy: ralph, isn't some of the criticism or the support for not doing insurrection that he wanted an elegant, very simple series of charges that he could -- especially if he is the first case that goes to court, where donald trump could conceivably been convicted? the fact that he only went after

donald trump himself, i mean, this one is donald trump and 18 others will take much longer. what about that, the issue of the elegance and the simplicity of the charges he brought that could make it more realizable in the near future before he could possibly be elected the next president of the united states? >> remember, trump's lawyers are masters of delay. we already have trump the nominee for federal court judge cannon in florida putting off the trial until may after the primaries. until may of next year. already, the trials for jack smith are in december and they can be moved even more. so we are dealing here with awful delay. we are dealing with a candidate who can basically create mobs in

the streets, threats everywhere as he runs for office, intimidating members of his own party as well as other americans. there is nothing more elegant than in insurrection account because the evidence is already there. it is been brought together in great detail by the house select committee on january 6. and it has been brought together by the impeachment proceedings by the house of representatives in 2021. we should realize here that what trump is doing is committing assault day by day. when you use the kind of language -- violent language that he uses against individuals named in effect with threats of violence, that is a crime itself. you don't have to go to battery -- assault is a crime itself -- as he did to the two election workers in georgia. but he has been escaping the law

all his life. i have often said he could give a seminar in law school on how to escape the laws as a corporate executive. he is escape the law as president. he is in the process of doing egg again. does she is doing it again. use the white house lawn as an open political campaign site that violates the criminal statute the hatch act, five year jail term if you get convicted. he got away with that. he got away with all kinds of traction of justice following the robert mueller report that came out. he got away with 11 impeachment counts -- nancy pelosi just brought the ukraine matter, not exactly a kitchen table issue. amy: let me ask you about what he has been charged with. he has been so far in these four

cases, four indictments, he has been charged for what he did before he was president, while he was president, after he was president. he has been charged where he used to live in new york, where he now lives in florida, where he worked in washington, d.c., and now georgia. i want to ask about this comment in "the times" that the lawyers are likely going argue that the georgia case should be moved, it falls under federal jurisdiction. the argument failed in new york for the indictment focused on the hush-money payments because it happened before he was president. the significance of this coming out of georgia? >> delay. constant delay. constant delay into 2024 before the election, after the election. that is why the insurrection count is so important. it is still the one to prevent him from running for public office. we have written on jack smith's

draft letter, which i hope other letters will sign, urging him to go back to the grand jury -- as he can do with the approval of merrick garland -- and add the insurrection account. add the insurrection count. amy: to the indictment. >> yes. amy: what kind of response have you gotten to this? >> no, this is a draft letter that were circulating to get lawyers to come on board. the real problem here is trump attacks everybody and he knows law enforcement people come the prosecutors cannot respond. and all these other groups in our society that he has menaced and undermined and harmed are keeping quiet. where are the lawyers? where are the bar association's keeping quiet? where are the labor unions? keeping quiet. where the peace groups? keeping quiet. where the women groups, day

after day, the children protection groups, environmental groups come the civil rights groups? once in a while come they speak out, but he is on the news every day and he to be rebutted every day. things have deteriorated so much in terms of the rule of law, amy, that in 2005, 2006, the american bar association issued three papers accusing george w. bush of violating the constitution during the iraq war and now they are silent the biggest bar association in the world. they are silent. unless these groups speak out, the religious groups don't speak out. there's a reason why they're not speaking out, because a minority of their membership are fervid trump supporters and they don't want to have that kind of internal turmoil. i was told that but the head of

the judicial council of churches of years ago. amy: five seconds. >> i want people to get the capitol hill citizen for a donation of five dollars or more , a 40 page -- amy: we have to