08/17/23 08/17/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> reveals new evidence published for the first time since what happened from the official document of dispersal, a document that formed for the

only official investigation to it happened into this worst massacre in egyptian modern history. amy: in egypt, human rights advocates marked the 10th anniversary of the rabaa massacre when egyptian forces opened fire on a sit and where tens of thousands of people had camped out in cairo to protest the ouster of egypt's first democratically elected president mohamed morsi. some 900 protesters were killed. we will go to cairo. then a secret pakistan cable documents u.s. pressure to remove imran khan as prime minister. >> this document shows for the first time the u.s. used influence. amy: the intercept has now published the secret cable which reveals how the u.s. was upset by imran khan's position on the

russian invasion of ukraine. in the u.n. security council meets to discuss the blockade in nagorno-karabakh and calls for the immediate reopening of the latching corridor to allow for humanitarian aid for the roughly 120,000 people suffering severe shortages. a report by the former international criminal court prosecutor luis moreno ocampo finds the blockade amounts to a likely genocide. >> the crime of genocide could be calculated to bring about the physical destruction of the group for ethnic resources. that's a genocide and exactly what happened there because the blockade of the corridor has a purpose, to starve its people

most of amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the death toll from the devastating maui fires has reached 111 and continues to rise as crews search areas in and around lahaina. about 1000 people remain missing. on wednesday, authorities in hawaii defended not activating emergency sirens during the wildfire. this is maui emergency chief herman andaya. >> the sirens are used primarily for tsunami's, and that is the reason why many are found -- almost all are found on the coastline. the public is trained to seek higher ground in the event the siren is sounded.

if you're in a low-lying area near the coastline, evacuate the high grounds. amy: instead of using the sirens, emergency officials in maui sent out warnings to people's cell phones but many did not receive the messages because the power and cell service was already down. meanwhile, hawaii's governor josh green has proposed a moratorium on land transactions in lahaina. he said, "my intention from start to finish is to make sure that no one is victimized from a land grab." hawaiians have been warning about wealthy outsiders attempting to buy up land after the fire. authorities in canada have ordered all residents of the city of yellowknife to evacuate as a massive wildfire approaches. military aircraft will help evacuate some residents who cannot drive out of the city, which is the capital of canada's northwest territories.

the city is home to about 20,000 people. yellowknife mayor rebecca alty spoke wednesday. >> there is a possibility without rain, the fire reaches the outskirts of the yellowknife by the weekend. it is approaching but there is time to complete the community evacuation. it is being called now so we can offer people the opportunity to drive while the highway is open. the highway is subject to closures at any time but likely it will be open until tomorrow morning. conditions will be smoking and the residents should be driving with caution and care. amy: a number of other communities in canada's northwest territories have already been evacuated due to the fires. so far this year, fires have burned more than 33 million acres in canada, more than double any previous season. that's an area equivalent to the size of alabama or nine connecticuts. here in the u.s. federal appeals

, a court upheld restrictions on the abortion pill mifepristone, the most widely used method of abortion in the united states. the fifth circuit court sided with the right-wing texas judge and plaintiffs, who argued the fda improperly relaxed regulations on the pill to make it more accessible and that it should only be used up to seven weeks into a pregnancy and only issued in person. but due to a previous stay issued by the supreme court, mifepristone will remain available for now under current regulations while the case proceeds. the justice department is expected to appeal the ruling to the supreme court. in other abortion news, indiana blocked a doctor who provided an abortion to a 10-year-old rape survivor from receiving a prestigious award. dr. caitlin bernard performed the abortion for the ohio patient last year and spoke out

about it to highlight the cruelty and real-world impact of banning abortion. she was reprimanded and fined $3000. more than 60 asylum seekers are feared dead after a boat carrying migrants was found drifting near cape verde in west africa. the boat left senegal over a month ago with 101 people on board. most of the passengers were from the same senegalese fishing village. officials believe the boat may have been headed to the canary islands, which is part of spain. according to the spanish group walking borders, at least 778 migrants have died this year attempting to reach the canary islands. defense chiefs from the west african regional bloc ecowas are meeting today and tomorrow in ghana to discuss a possible military intervention in niger where the military seized power last month.

the intercept is reporting u.s.-trained officers have been appointed to head five of niger's eight regions under the new military junta. this comes as the united nations is warning international sanctions could worsen a growing humanitarian crisis in niger. >> in niger, our colleagues are concerned about the potential impact of the ongoing crisis on the food security situation. before the coup, over 3 million people were already severely food insecure. some 7.3 million food insecure people could see the situation worsened due to the unfolding crisis. humanitarian's exemptions to sanctions are border closures are required. amy: in other news from niger, at least 17 soldiers have been killed in an attack near the mali border. in recent years, the region has seen a surge in violence by groups linked to al-qaeda and isis.

in libya, at least 55 people have been killed in the heaviest fighting between rival armed factions so far this year in tripoli. over 150 people were injured. libya has been in a state of crisis for over a decade since the 2011 nato-backed operation to topple muammar gaddafi. in sudan, the army's second in command has said a plan to end the deadly conflict needs to be negotiated and a caretaker government must be formed as the fighting between the army and the paramilitary rapid support forces rages into its fifth month. the u.n. this week issued a dire warning as the number of refugees who crossed the sudanese border topped 1 million. in a joint statement, u.n. agencies said -- "time is running out for farmers to plant the crops that will feed them and their neighbors. medical supplies are scarce. the situation is spiraling out of control."

reports of sexual violence has increased by 50% since the start of the fighting, though this is likely a significant undercount of the true toll. this is a spokesperson for the u.n. refugee agency. >> the conflict in sudan on the fifth of april, over 4.3 mil have been forced to flee. this includes over 900,000 refugees and asylum seekers who fled to neighboring countries. and 195,000 south sudanese forced to return to south sudan. we have seen sudan, over three point fueling people have been internally displaced, including more than 187,000 refugees already residing in the country at the start of the crisis. amy: a high ranking nato official has apologized after publicly suggesting that ukraine could give up some of its land as part of a way to end the war with russia. stian jenssen, the chief of

staff to the nato secretary general, made his initial comment during a recent forum in norway. he said, "i think that a solution could be for ukraine to give up territory and get nato membership in return." officials in ukraine blasted his comment. a woman in texas has been arrested and jailed after threatening to kill federal judge tanya chutkan, who is overseeing the donald trump january 6 case. security has been increased around chutkan, who is black and was born in jamaica. meanwhile, supporters of donald trump have posted online the purported names and addresses of the grand jury members in georgia who voted to indict the former president and 18 co-defendants. the fulton county sheriff's office has not said if any security precautions have been taken to protect the grand jurors.

meanwhile, fulton county district attorney fani willis continues to face an onslaught of racist abuse online instigated by donald trump, who has repeatedly attacked her on the campaign trail, calling her a racist. on wednesday, fani willis, who is the first black woman to serve as fulton county d.a., proposed the trump trial begin on march 4. a local prosecutor in kansas has withdrawn the search warrant used by police to raid the marion county record newspaper . the raid sparked national condemnation. in a statement, the marion county attorney said there was "insufficient evidence" for the police to raid and seize material from the newsroom and the home of the paper's owner. items seized included computers and cell phones and hard drives. they will now be returned. on wednesday, the marion county record published its first

edition since the raid. the banner headline on the paper -- on the front page read, "seized. but not silenced." this comes as the community prepares for the wake and funeral of joan meyer, the paper's co-publisher. the 98-year-old longtime journalist died day after the saturday, one police raid on her home. her son said she drive -- died of stress. in north carolina, republican lawmakers in the state senate and house have voted to override vetoes from democratic governor roy cooper to enact three bills targeting trans youth. one law bans gender affirming care for youth, another bans transgender girls and women from playing on sports teams in middle school, high school, and college. a third law restricts how gender identity is discussed in schools. it's been described as the north carolina version of

florida's "don't say gay" bill. the group equality nc decried the three new laws as a slate of hate. hundreds of people marched to the school board of miami-dade county in florida on wednesday to protest changes to how black history is taught in florida's schools. the new standards require students be taught about the benefits of slavery. one section of the curriculum states enslaved people "developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit." florida governor and presidential candidate ron desantis has defended the new curriculum changes. speakers at wednesday's rally included tennessee state representative justin pearson who made national headlines when he and his colleague justin jones were expelled from the tennessee republican-dominated legislative body.

they have both since won their seats back in the tennessee legislature. and an emergency court hearing is continuing in louisiana over calls for authorities to transfer children being imprisoned at the notorious maximum-security louisiana state penitentiary known as angola, which was built on a former slave plantation. advocates say children as young as 14 years old are being held in solitary confinement and are being deprived of their education. most of the children are black. this is alanah odoms, executive director of the aclu of louisiana. >> children are currently being locked away in cages at angola. children. not youth offenders, not juvenile delinquents, not throw aways, not people without value. children are children. children are being deprived of

an education. children are being deprived of humane conditions. children are being shackled and handcuffed. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. nermeen: and i nermeen shaikh. amit is so great to be back in the studio with you after more than three years. amy: amazing to be sitting side-by-side with you. welcome back. nermeen: welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. we begin today's show in egypt, where human rights advocates are marking the 10th anniversary of the rabaa massacre. it was august 14, 2013 when egyptian forces opened fire on a sit-in where tens of thousands of people had camped out in cairo to protest the ouster of egypt's first democratically-elected president mohamed morsi. human rights watch estimates over 900 protesters were killed in what the group has described as the "worst single-day killing

of protesters in modern history." no one has been held responsible over the past 10 years. the minister of defense at the time was abdel fattah el-sisi, who has ruled egypt for nearly a decade and is a close u.s. ally. under el-sisi, egypt is now jailing about 60,000 political prisoners. this is democracy now! correspondent sharif abdel kouddous in 2013 on our live broadcast the day after the massacre, describing what he saw. >> yesterday was a day of violence and chaos and bloodshed, the most violent episode i have witnessed as reporter in egypt for the past 2.5 years. walking around in the northwestern neighborhood where the mosque was located. you could hear the crackle of machine-gun fire intermittently in the air. there was tear gas on the outskirts mixed with black smoke

rising from tires set alight by the protesters. the interior ministry has spoken for a couple of weeks about the plan to disperse the sit-in that would go in stages and see it surrounding the protesters and then a gradual escalation but by all accounts, all of the witnesses i spoke to have said the attack started sometime around 6:30 and came in very hard with tear gas and the casualties started pouring in. most were live ammunition. very soon after that, the scene in died the main medical facility in rabaa was extremely tragic. people were being brought in, the dead and wounded, every few minutes. the floor was slippery with blood. the windows were closed to prevent tear gas from coming in. it was almost unbearably hot. the dead were everywhere. in one room alone, i counted 24 bodies strewn on the ground,

packed so closely you could not even walk in. another floor, 30. another floor, eight. doctors were overwhelmed with the casualties. it was a difficult situation. and one i think will have deeper implications for egypt's future for decades to calm. amy: that was democracy now! correspondent sharif abdel kouddous in 2013 on our live broadcast the day after what has come to be known as the rabaa massacre. for more, we go to cairo, now 10 years later, to speak with hossam bahgat, the founder and executive director of the egyptian initiative for personal rights, eipr, based in cairo. they have obtained a leaked copy of a government report on the massacre that implicated egyptian authorities in the mass killing. it accused security forces of "indiscriminate and disproportionate use of live

ammunition and concluded "the largest number of rabaa victims were innocent civilians who were most likely peaceful demonstrators." hossam bahgat also worked as an investigative journalist for the independent outlet mada masr. he has been banned from traveling outside egypt and had his personal assets frozen. we interviewed evidence,

hearing testimony, analyzing. it did not have the right to appeal evidence. it did not have the authority to refer cases to trial or assign spots. therefore, concluded there needs to be a full investigation. this is the recommendation that was never made public. it was omitted from the summary

that was published nine years ago. and now we know why. the regime had 10 years to hold people to account. instead, it did not even question a single officer, soldier, or state official. instead it arrested, prosecuted, convicted over 700 of those protesters that survived the massacre. the vast majority of whom are currently in prison still 10 years later. at least 12 people are on death row having lost her final appeal. nermeen: could you elaborate on the effects of both the crackdown and as you point out this raining culture of impunity whereby no one has been held accountable? amnesty international has well has that the last 10 years can only be described as "a decade of shame.

the rabaa massacre was a turning point through which their 30's have relentlessly pursued a zero policy of to send." if you could talk about that, the continuing crackdown on dissent and its intensification after the massacre 10 years ago? >> of course. as we last discussed when we were in sharm el-sheikh, egypt had been going through the unprecedented human rights crisis. the origins of this crisis can be linked to the massacre. the massacre established a new normal, where it is not just that hundreds of people could be killed within 12 hours, in broad daylight, without a single person being held accountable.

but it is also that it happened with popular support. this is really for me, for us, the reason for the decade of shame. that overwhelmingly, there was no outcry. there was no active involvement from the population, but there was certainly a degree of acceptance. admittedly, resulting from months of dehumanization and propaganda campaign. ultimately, we did not say "not in our name." there was a moment when people decided that it is ok for rights to be defended and the leader knows that we're are going to let him -- now egyptian people are overwhelmingly looking up to the

results of this bad deal, poisonous deal that they made because they allowed one person to rule for 10 years with no opposition party, oversight, no judicial oversight, no public demonstrations, and no civil society. and look where it got us, the worst economic crisis in egypt's history with no prospect for improvement, with expectations for things to get worse, with a leader that is refusing to take responsibility for any of this and increasing daily -- for the first time today, people are waking up to the fact they agreed to this deal and it was to their detriment, not just the victims that were most immediately -- nermeen: how happy jeff in egypt responded to this report?

explain how is -- what is the position now i've members of the muslim brotherhood or people who were previously supported morsi? >> findings of the report -- it has been the topic of discussion on social media. traditional media and even west has been completely, you know, nationalized by sisi. it is coming as a shock for particularly two sectors. people who really believe the propaganda 10 years ago and are only now able to read what

happened not from independent journalists or civil society, but a government report with a stack of current judges led by the current minister of justice. but the second segment that is acting in complete shock but also anger and outrage is young people. this is a very young society where we have the vast majority of democratic majority people under 30. so many community people on social media are simply too young to remember, did not watch the news coverage at the time, did not know what happened. they know about the events, but they don't have a grasp of what really happened. they are acting with the natural shock because, frankly, we were there and we went through this,

and even to us, it came as a shock to read the official accounts. the prime minister has given testimony in the report where he says, again, on the record, the number of those killed was below their expectation. the expectation of the clerks. it is hard for the government now to stick -- to your question about where the muslim brotherhood is right now, many of the senior leadership are in prison were serving sentences, but leadership structure of the organization is now based elsewhere.

of course, the young rank-and-file members of the brotherhood and beyond, people [indiscernible] are now in the thousands in prison, around 30,000 of them. amy: we just have a minute but two quick questions. the people who are on death row now, if you can give us some sense of who they are? and you yourself, president sisi may be reconsidering keeping you in egypt, but your own circumstances, for people to understand, something we can't understand well in sharm el-sheikh, that you cannot leave the country based on what? >> together with other

colleagues from the human rights movement, and under investigation for over 10 years now. for the last seven years, as part of that investigation, i have been placed under an open-ended travel ban, my accounts are frozen. as i said before, i consider myself lucky still, that this is a small price that i have to pay. but i am also in no rush to leave egypt. i can't deny the impact of these unfair measures against me and my colleagues, but at the same time, we have been around and with change for the administration's and presidents,

and we want to have contributed to bringing this to an end. amy: hossam bahgat, thank you for being with us founder and , executive director of the egyptian initiative for personal rights, eipr, based in cairo. he has also worked as an investigative journalist with the independent media outlet mada masr. coming up, the u.n. security council hazmat to discuss the blockade and reopening the lachin corridor for the roughly 120 thousand people suffering shortages. we will speak with the farmer international criminal court prosecutor luis moreno ocampo who says the blockade amounts to a likely genocide. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "what to do" by yasser elmanawahly. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. nermeen: the u.s. a critic of clement to discuss the blockade imposed by as others call for the immediate reopening of the luis moreno ocampo corridor --lachin corridor. 23-year-old english teacher nina shaverdyan, a resident of nagorno-karabakh, described life under the blockade. >> we have blackouts. for example, at 5:00, we will have a blackout again for two

hours and then this is repeating itself. we don't have water because we have only reserved water. we have water shortages. because of the water shortages and electricity shortages, there's not enough bread even in the shops. nermeen: she also noted there is a shortage of fuel, further isolating those who are not able to walk or walk long distances. a recent report by former international criminal court prosecutor luis moreno ocampo found the blockade amounts to a likely genocide of the local armenian population. azerbaijan has rejected the accusation. tensions have been running high in nagorno-karabakh since december of last year, when blockades started. the crossing has been totally sealed off since mid the june. population of the disputed region is majority-armenian but it is part of azerbaijan, after

azerbaijani forces regained control of the territory in the 2020 war, leaving the lachin corridor as the area's only connector with armenia. amy: well, for more, we're joined by two guests. in boston, anna ohanyan, professor of political science and international relations at stonehill college. her latest book is "the neighborhood effect: the imperial roots of regional fracture in eurasia. and joining us from the capital of colombia, bogotá, luis moreno ocampo, argentine lawyer who served as the first prosecutor of the international criminal court. he also was the deputy prosecutor in argentina's trial of the juntas. we welcome you both to democracy now! luis moreno ocampo, we last had you on with the oscar-nominated film "1985" that really told your story as you went after the

coup leader, essentially, of chili, as you went after pinochet. can you talk about your finding? >> it is basic, some armenian people -- [indiscernible] who say they cannot blockade the corridor that provides food and other essentials to the armenians living in the region of nagorno-karabakh. so it is very basic. the international justice say

blocking essentials for the lives of the ammonium people and that is a factory, a factory -- killing massive numbers. it is creating conditions to destroy the lives of the group. and that is what happened today in azerbaijan. it is a genocide today. [indiscernible] in a few minutes i will be in a conference with nagorno-karabakh

. they are there. they are dying. so what we do? that is the question. i was listening to your show and when you have a national crime, you have -- here there is no judge or prosecutor. the international criminal court -- the only ones who can solve the problem. the problem is the tensions today are obvious between russia, euros, and france. -- russia, u.s., and france. stop genocide in one minute. what is interesting here, the solution is very simple. it is an agreement between the u.s., france, and russia to stop

the genocide. my last point is, ukraine is a big conflict, big crime, but armenian victims could not be damage of the ukrainian conflict. we should not accept a new armenian genocide in 2023. nermeen: could you explain, elaborate on that point what you mean when you say the armenians who are stuck in nagorno-karabakh should not be collateral damage of the war in ukraine? if you could talk about that? and you also say you based your decision on -- are findings on the decisions taken by the international court of justice earlier this year. explain what that decision was. it was legally binding. and what followed that decision? what happened as a result of

what the court found? >> the national court of justice, received a request -- against discrimination. the international criminal court of justice is acting differently against discrimination. but in this case, since february, so they had six months, the international criminal court of justice gave a binding order to free the blockade of what is called the lachin corridor that provided essentials for the lives of armenians in azerbaijan. they are refusing. it has been closed since june. that is industrial genocide.

the red cross say that. since june, nothing from the lachin corridor. that is a fact. this is genocide. the solution, as i said before, why the armenians are victims because the solution is an agreement between the u.s., russia, and france. they agreed, to stop this, they would do it. because they cannot agree, they just call -- [indiscernible] like asking the jews to negotiate with hitler. this is time to stop a genocide. we have great people in power.

the first u.s. president who recognized the armenian and aside. yesterday, the armenian ambassador in the u.s. said -- we need intervention. and antony blinken who has family affected. and who wrote the most important book about how to prevent genocide. she explains how every time it happened since 1950 two the jewish genocide, [indiscernible] that is why my report was, the king is naked.

the solution is political. the leader has to agree to stop the genocide. nermeen: i would like to bring in professor anna ohanyan of political science and international relations at stonehill college. professor, if you could respond to the ongoing crisis in nagorno-karabakh and what you understand occurred at the meeting, wednesday's meeting of the u.n. security council yesterday? professor? are you there? >> sure. thank you very much for the invitation. what has been transpired -- yes. can you hear me? nermeen: yes, go ahead. >> hello? amy: we can hear you perfectly. >> the emergency meeting of the security council -- very good. thank you.

in addition to the severe humanitarian crisis that the blockade, the siege of nagorno-karabakh republic by others has created, the genocide of violence that it has created this -- described by luis moreno ocampo this taking place in the context of broader use of violence in the region. in 2020 when azerbaijan -- with turkeys backing -- engaged in offensive on the nagorno-karabakh entity, azerbaijan emerged victorious, recover the territory surrounding nagorno-karabakh. the november 9 agreement, as your previous speaker mentioned, created and maintained the lachin corridor connecting nagorno-karabakh with armenia. what this peace process has been continuing since then by the western european union, united states has been very active,

with russia's attempt to keep peacekeeping inside nagorno-karabakh. but with the use of hunger as a weapon is demonstrating that the strategy is to consolidate the victory it has achieved in the battlefield to the use of non-kinetic, tools that are not directly violent such as the weapon as a hunger in order to coerce the armenians in nagorno-karabakh conflict to either relocate ethnic cleansing or fully submit to azerbaijan, which azerbaijan government refers to as integration. the key here i think the objective is to not engage, to not provide political accommodation to the entity. this is an entity that has been at a factor state, has been a self-governing unit since the

first nagorno-karabakh war ended in 1994 and it was part of as a result of gerrymandering, this entity was given to azerbaijan but even then as part of soviet azerbaijan it was an autonomous self-governing. the hunger is an attempt to eliminate, to not engage with the entity politically and in that respect it is quite dangerous. using hunger as a weapon essentially creates the conditions of hybrid war. as such, it is very dangerous not just for the armenians in nagorno-karabakh, but for others in general. recently, the strategy was also used in ethiopia relative to the tigray population. it is quite troublesome and it is devastating also because there is opportunity that azerbaijan has been moving

toward pacifying the region. there are various factors involved in this historic opportunity considering russia has weekend -- weakened. it is a historic opportunity because russia for almost a century has been using it -- to remain relevant. geopolitical stakes of a peaceful principal, dignified resolution of this conflict remained significant. amy: anna ohanyan, thank you for being with us, professor of political science and international relations at stonehill college. and luis moreno ocampo, argentine lawyer who served as the first prosecutor of the international criminal court. he also is the deputy prosecutor in argentina's trial of the juntas. a correction, he was also featured in the film "argentina

1985," which was about the trial of the junta against the leaders of the argentine coup. coming up, the intercept reports secret pakistan cable documents u.s. pressure to remove imran khan as prime minister. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "bikhra" by abdul hassan. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. nermeen: we end today's show at the new report by the intercept document and u.s. pressure to remove imran khan. it follows up on the recent story that begins -- "the u.s. state department encouraged the pakistani government in a march 7, 2022, meeting to remove imran khan as prime minister over his

position on the russian invasion of ukraine." the cap describes a meeting between the pakistani ambassador to the united states and two state department officials that imran khan has repeatedly cited as leading to his political ouster after a no-confidence vote in parliament believed to have been organized with the backing of pakistan's powerful military. the meeting came after then-prime minister imran khan arrived in russia on the eve of its invasion of ukraine last february 2022. he could be heard telling a russian official, "what a time i have come. so much excitement." on the day russia ordered the invasion, khan went ahead with his scheduled meeting with president putin. amy: the state department officials present at the meeting described in the secret cable now published by the intercept included assistant secretary of state for the bureau of south and central asian affairs donald lu and asad majeed khan, who at the time was pakistan's ambassador to the u.s. the cable says lu raised the issue of the no-confidence vote --

"i think if the no-confidence vote against the prime minister succeeds, all will be forgiven in washington because the russia visit is being looked at as a decision by the prime minister." lu continued, "otherwise, i think it will be tough going ahead" and said khan could face "isolation" by europe and the u.s. should he remain in office. for more where joined by murtaza hussain, senior writer at the intercept. can you lay out what you have found? >> this document has been at the center for the last year and a half. for the first time we have seen what it says and what to reveal is. extraordinary pressure, which was put by the u.s. on imran khan over his stance in ukraine, which in a document the officials referred to it as aggressively neutral. shortly after this meeting in this document, imran khan was removed from power in a no-confidence vote which state department officials had not

just encouraged but threatened pakistan over that should khan survive the vote, pakistan would be isolated and should he be removed, "all would be forgiven." khan had been saying for the last year and a half since his removal that u.s. officials played an integral role in encouraging the pakistani military to take him out of power. now that we have seen this document for the first time, it does seem to validate many of his claims about the events that led up to his removal from power last year. nermeen: i would like to go to a political activist who democracy now! spoke on wednesday. he is a longtime left-wing political activist. we got his response to the report in the intercept. >> the intercept stories much ado about nothing. at least in pakistan. i'm talking about critical progressive circles, not government or the pti or i case

of the truth is ik fell out and that is the reason he was booted. as the right tendency to do everywhere, classic example of a populist right-wing demagogue, still the -- he's not even anti-imperialist, and best could have called himself anti-american. we did not have the kind of or don't have the kind of purchase, especially in the mainstream media, to be able to say real anti-imperialist looks and does x, y, z. amy: that is aasim sajjad akhtar , clinical activist. if you could respond to what he said? a lot of what has been said, pakistan had long been isolated. biden did not even give enron call a call after he was elected. if you could respond?

>> it is very polarized political environment in pakistan, perhaps more than in many decades. people's perceptions of this reflect that polarization inside pakistan society. looking at history, one thing that is undeniable, the military does not make a move -- the u.s. is effectively part of the governing contact of society. at the time this meeting took place, imran khan was already on thin ice with the military after initially having his rise sponsored by their support. as we see this document, the military was waiting in many ways for some sort of green light from the u.s. had it not gotten a green light or the u.s. said we had no position in politics, was harder to imagine a subsequent event such took place. on thing that is important we learn from this disclosure is specifically was about the war in ukraine. after khan was removed, we saw a very distinct change in

pakistan's stance on the ukraine conflict. just a few days before he was removed, and general gave a speech contradicting khan's stance, which was very neutral on the ukraine conflict. now pakistan is a major supplier of arms in ukraine military brokered by the united states. you have to take it in the broader context. now mr. khan, who pulls show he is the most popular politician, is specifically being jailed and banned from politics to prevent him from taking part in elections later this year. what we're seeing now is a very roe going development toward a full-blown liturgical in pakistan, which is taking place with the support of ostensibly democratic parties who have cosigned the marginalization of democracy in pakistan for many years to come. amy: murtaza hussain, thank you for being with us, senior writer

at the intercept. we will link to his piece "secret pakistan cable documents u.s. pressure to remove imran khan." democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

(upbeat tropical music) (engine whirring) (motorbike whirring) - [narrator] i'd say most people have never heard of tuvalu.