08/22/23 08/22/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> donald trump full be in atlanta sometime in the next few days for his arraignment and a mugshot. he will be out on $200,000 bond, which is great for him because he has the money. but a lot of people in this town can't make $5,000 bond and some

diet and job because of it. amy: donald trump spot has been that at $200,000 in georgia where he faces charges for running a criminal enterprise to overturn the 2020 election. he will surrender thursday. we will speak to atlanta reporter george chidi who was subpoenaed to testify for the fulton county grand jury about stumbling upon meeting a fake electors and being thrown out. then to south africa where a major summit of the brics nation is getting underway. >> this brics summit is particularly important as it is being held as the world is confronted by fundamental challenges that are bound to determine the cause of international events for years to come. amy: then to ecuador where the voters have passed an historic referendum to block oil extraction in yasuni national park. >> the community has been suffering from the oil industry since before i was even born.

that is the reality of many, many indigenous and amazonian communities in ecuador and other amazonian countries. amy: we will speak with helena gualinga. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. president biden visited the fire-devastated hawaiian island of maui on monday, pledging federal support for rebuilding efforts. biden's visit came as the death toll from this month's fire in the historic town of lahaina rose to 115, with more than 800 people still missing. pres. biden: i also what all of you to know the country stands with you and we will do whatever we can help you recover, rebuild, and respect culture and traditions when the rebuilding takes place. amy: climate groups are calling on biden to declare a climate

emergency in the wake of the maui fires and to protect survivors from predatory land grabs. kaniela ing, national director of the green new deal network and a native hawaiian from maui, said -- "i hope president biden will protect displaced residents from the disaster capitalists seeking to profit off their grief by instituting a moratorium on foreclosures and subsidizing mortgage and rent payments for at least a year." meanwhile, the national weather service has issued excessive heat warnings from texas to illinois, where the heat index in chicago could top 115 degrees fahrenheit this week. on monday, democrats on the house oversight committee called for a federal investigation into conditions at prisons during this summer's unprecedented heatwave. in texas, where most prison cells lack air conditioning, at least 41 prisoners have died of heart-related or undetermined causes so far this year. in russia, at least two people

were injured monday as russian air defense systems shot down four ukrainian drones near moscow. the attacks prompted officials at moscow's four main airports to suspend air traffic, canceling dozens of flights. elsewhere, a ukrainian drone struck and heavily damaged a russian supersonic bomber at an airbase south of st. petersburg. meanwhile, the governments of denmark and the netherlands have pledged to give u.s.-made f-16 fighter jets to ukraine after the biden administration recently gave approval to the transfers. on monday, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy traveled to copenhagen where he spoke outside the parliament to a large crowd of supporters. >> today we are confident that russia will lose this war. amy: zelenskyy's trip comes as "the new york times" reports the

total number of ukrainian and russian troops killed or wounded in the 18 months since russia invaded is nearing a half a million, a figure that doesn't include civilian deaths and injuries. "the times" cited unnamed u.s. officials for the figures, which estimate 120,000 russian troop deaths and 70,000 russian soldiers killed in action. in thailand, there is a new prime minister after he won the backing of a conservative and promilitary party in the thai parliament. he was the sole candidate considered by lawmakers monday after thailand's constitutional court in july suspended lawmaker pita limjaroenrat, a top candidate for prime minister whose liberal move forward party garnered the most support in may's national elections. hours ahead of the vote, former prime minister thaksin

returned to thailand after 15 years in exile. he was ousted in a 2006 military coup. he was jailed shortly after his arrival to face charges of abuse of power. former president trump has agreed to turn himself in to authorities at atlanta, georgia's fulton county jail on thursday to face 13 felony charges related to his efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election. trump's legal team says it has agreed with the fulton county district attorneys' office to set bail at $200,000. trump is expected to enter a not guilty plea, one day after he's scheduled to skip the first debate of republican party presidential candidates, televised by fox news wednesday night. republican state lawmakers in georgia have invoked a new state law signed by governor brian kemp earlier this year that could allow them to sanction or

even to remove fulton county district attorney fani willis from office as she pursues the case against trump and his 18 co-defendants. we will have more on the criminal case against trump and his allies in georgia by speaking to atlanta reporter george chidi, who was subpoenaed to testify before the grand jury, after headlines. in other trump news, former vice president mike pence and former white house chief of staff mark meadows have recently undercut trump's claim that trump declassified documents he took with him when he left the white house. pence told abc news on sunday he was never made aware of any broad-based effort to declassify documents, while meadows has reportedly made a similar claim to investigators working for special counsel jack smith. on monday, jack smith's office sharply rejected trump's call to delay the start of his federal election interference trial until 2026, accusing trump's legal team of grossly exaggerating the volume of

evidence being brought against trump. in texas, a federal judge in austin is hearing arguments today on a lawsuit filed by the justice department against republican governor greg abbott over texas' installation of border buoys in the rio grande along the u.s.-mexico border. the judge could issue an emergency injunction that forces texas to remove the floating barrier within days. texas authorities were reportedly trying to reposition the buoys ahead of today's hearing after mexican officials said the barrier, aimed at blocking asylum seekers from reaching the united states, was installed on mexico's side of the river. between the buoys there are circular saw blades. dozens of asylum seekers, including children, have been severely injured. this is democratic congressmember joaquin castro during a visit to the border city of eagle pass earlier this month. >> incredibly dangerous.

that is the reason i have set it is barbaric, because it is. people are getting stuck. there was a dead body stuck to this last week. reports of a child that died. if you look closer at the razor wire, there's peoples clothing stuck to the wire because they got stuck in the wire. amy: in georgia, atlanta city officials have announced an intricate signature verifying process that's forced activists campaigning to get a public referendum aimed at stopping a massive $90 million police training complex to delay turning in the tens of thousands of signatures they've collected in support of the measure. voting rights advocates have denounced the verification practice saying it can easily disenfranchise voters of color by throwing out authentic signatures perceived to have minimal differences. the city's announcement monday came just hours after activists opposing cop city said they had

gathered more than 100,000 signatures ahead of monday's deadline to submit the petition. stop cop city activists have vowed to continue collecting signatures as a judge granted them more time to turn them in. the move means the referendum may not make the ballot until march, when a competitive republican presidential primary is taking place. in kansas, a newly released video shows the shocking police raid on the home of the marion county record's 98-year-old co-publisher joan meyer. an excerpt of the video filmed during the august 11 raid shows meyer excoriating officers as they search through her documents and electronic devices. >> don't you touch any of that stuff. >> ma'am. >> this is my house. >> ma'am. we will get out of here pretty

quick. amy: joan meyer died one day after the raid. "the marion county record" blamed the police action for her death, saying it left meyer stressed beyond her limits. to see our full coverage of the story, visit democracynow.org. and in california, a beloved shop owner in the san bernardino mountains was fatally shot by a man shouting homophobic slurs about a rainbow pride flag hanging outside her business. 66-year-old laura ann carleton died from a gunshot wound friday evening at her store in cedar glen, east of los angeles. a 27-year-old gunman blamed for her killing fled the scene and was shot and killed after what officers described as a shootout. police say the suspect had a history of making hateful and homophobic posts on multiple social media platforms, including x, the site formerly known as twitter. a recent report by the advocacy group glaad documented at least

356 cases of anti-lgbtqia hate across the united states between june 2022 and last april. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in new york, with democracy now!'s juan gonzález in chicago. hi, juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: we begin today's show in atlanta, georgia, where donald trump has announced he will turn himself in at the fulton county jail on thursday. trump's bond has been set at $200,000. this all comes a week after trump and 18 co-defendants were indicted by a grand jury for running a criminal enterprise to overturn the 2020 election in a case brought by fulton county district attorney fani willis.

trump has now been indicted four times since late march. but unlike the other indictments, this will be the first time he must pay cash bond. it will also be the first time cameras will be allowed in the courtroom. joining us in atlanta is george chidi. he is an independent journalist in atlanta, writes the atlanta objective substack newsletter, and is co-host of the podcast "king slime." he was recently subpoenaed to testify before the fulton county grand jury in the trump investigation but did not end up testifying. in december 2020, he stumbled upon a secret meeting at the georgia statehouse of republicans plotting to overturn the election by submitting a slate of fake electors. george chidi has also reported on the dire conditions inside the fulton county jail where 15 people died last year, including lashawn thompson who was eaten alive by insects and bedbugs in his cell.

george chidi's recent piece for atlanta magazine is headlined "the real behind the wall: a look inside the infamous, deadly fulton county jail." george, welcome to democracy now! before we go to why you were subpoenaed and you're stumbling upon the fake electors meaning, let's talk about where president donald trump is turning himself in on thursday. the fulton county jail you have investigated so well. explain what this jail is all about, why it is so notorious. >> it is notorious in part because a lot of people are getting killed in. before the pandemic, the jail might have two or three deaths in a year. last year, there were 15. they are up to seven this year, four in the last 30 days.

the conditions are terrible. the infrastructure is falling apart. the infrastructure is actually difficult to repair because repair people are afraid to go in because the level of supervision isn't safe in their opinion. the medical services provider pulled out and had to be dragged back in by the county. they have a tremendous staffing problem. which is sort of emblematic of what is going on in law enforcement in general, but in fulton county, it is an acute problem that is getting people killed. juan: george, isn't the responsibility for the conditions in the jail a responsibility of the local government in atlanta, which is largely democratic administration? >> that's correct. the sheriff is elected.

the sheriff is a democrat. the mayor is a democrat. the city's administrative bodies are all run by democrats for the most part. we are talking about a systemic problem that is expressing itself, a problem in the jail. that jail is overfull because it has people who largely should not be there. the most common charge for somebody being jailed is criminal trespassing, which could be, you know, painting something on a wall, shoplifting . 5% of people in there are in there for shoplifting charges, including the fellow who died last thursday. amy: last month, the justice department announced it has opened a civil investigation into the conditions in the fulton county jail in georgia. this is assistant attorney general kristen clarke. >> you will examine living

conditions in the fulton county jail, access to medical care and mental care, use of accepted force by staff, and conditions that may give rise to violence between people incarcerated at the facility. the investigation will also examine whether the fulton county jail discriminates against incarcerated people with psychiatric disabilities. amy: the people incarcerated in the fulton county jail are predominantly people of color, with data showing 87% of the jail population is black. if you can talk about lashawn thompson, who people may remember how he died, but the horror for the country somewhat blew open or put fulton county jail on the map. again, the place that president trump is going to turn himself into on thursday, george. >> so lashawn thompson was found

face down in the toilet in his cell and he was covered in insects. lice, -- people have described him as exam going. that is a bit of hyperbole. but he died in squalor. he died like no human being should be. he died in art because a jailer was not checking on him regularly. he was in their psych ward and they missed him. because there was negligence. there was negligence because the county just settled for $4 million in that case. but he is one of 15 people -- when you start drilling down to the other deaths that have occurred. two people were murdered, one was struggled in his bed and --

people are dying of preventable illnesses. a lot of it is tied to mental health problems. the jail is the largest mental health provider in this county. that is a tragedy all on its own and has two stop. juan: george, i would like to turn to the big headline of the week in atlanta, even across the nation, the rico indictments a president trump and others for the falls left her plot. could you talk about how you came upon this group of fake republican electors in 2020? where were you and what happened at that meeting? >> the first thing i want to say is i take objection to the characterization of what i did as stumbling upon fake electors. i was in a room with probably a dozen other journalists and i noticed that one of the people

we will describe as a fae collector was in the halls. i questioned why he was there. when he went into a room in the capital on december 14, 2020, i realized something was happening in that room. i took out a camera is started a facebook live and walk in. i started asking questions. i was summarily thrown out. but before i was, i asked what kind of meat it was happening and i was told it was an education meeting. plainly, it was not an education meeting. i was told later by david schaefer, the georgia republican party leader here, that they had to submit electors in order to maintain their legal case in front of the courts. that has come into legal question at this point. it is the reason why we are looking at this investigation. it is the reason in part that

donald trump is going to have to walk through that jail on thursday. the fact i was lied to became wrigley important -- or so i am told, which is why i was subpoenaed. i testified in front of the special purpose grand jury one year ago. i was called last monday to testify but it turned out it was unnecessary. frankly, i think that is a good thing. juan: have you been able to tell of the people he saw in that meeting which of them have been indicted or were any of them indicted? >> several have been indicted. the one i focused on his the woman in the front of the picture that i posted that has been up for three years on twitter is kathy way from. she is the chairwoman of the coffee can republican party. she was one of the electors. she would have been in the

lecture had the republicans won georgia. i am reasonably certain she is the one who lied to me and said that was an education meeting. she is also all over the video of donald trump's crew, basically, taking apart the voting machines in coffee county. that is central to this investigation because that active elective interference exposed software that made things subject to manipulation perhaps later. that may be the most dangerous act of -- that you can look at in this indictment. amy: george, as we wrap up this section on president trump and

what he is being charged with and going into the fulton county jail, you just described the most horrific conditions inside this jail. what are we going to know when he walks in? what will he experience? >> i am just scratching the surface of how bad it is in there. i don't think he is going to experience any of that. he will be processed on the first floor in a relatively clean and safe environment. they are going to walk down the entire area around the jail as soon as he arrives. nobody gets in or out, not press, not visitors, no one. i don't expect him to be there more than five minutes. but he will have a mugshot taken. he will be weighed. this year has pledged that he will be treated like anybody else in this regard that has to be processed into the jail.

but he is not going to experience any of it. i find it fascinating that in this moment when you have a former president who might have to set foot in a jail as a prisoner that suddenly, we care about the conditions of that jail. not you, of course. you worry about this sort of thing because you are decent and kind. but the rest of the world is waking up to this. i am gratified to see it. amy: george, i also want to ask about grassroots efforts to block the construction of cop city, the $90 million police training complex that will be the largest in the country. organizers planning on submitting over 100,000 signatures to force a ballot referendum on the project, but activist put off submitting the signatures apparently on monday, we are trying to piece this together come after atlanta city officials announced an intricate signature verifying process that will cost a fortune stop stop

cop city activist had about continuing to collect signatures as the judge gray to the more time to the more temperature them in. if you can talk about what is going on? also the number of protesters charged with domestic terrorism? and was the fulton county d.a. fani willis involved with those charges, not to mention the bond group that was also charged? >> fani willis really isn't involved in any of this. this is coming out of chris carr's office, the attorney general here in georgia. any dynamic between the city of atlanta and the state with regard to how they are treating these protesters, these activists come is fascinating and deserves more attention. 104,000 signatures, which is close to double the number of votes anybody elected in office in atlanta has ever received. the mayor is on record saying

the signature match process that they are planning to use or i'm told they're planning to use is rig and the idea they're going to pull that out speaks to how committed the city is to seeing this police training center cop city get built. i'm amazed at how much political capital they have burned on this to be perfectly honest. the fact of the matter is, they have 100. the threshold is 58,000 signatures, give or take. i strongly suspect they will make it unless there's something happening that isn't immediately visible to us. i find the city's move surprising. amy: last question, 30 seconds, when you are responding to the question of being subpoenaed, were subpoenaed but you ultimately, though you waited to

testify you're not called, you said "fortunately, did not have to testify." why? >> journalists should not be getting into grand jury rooms. i am not an agent of the government. i am a critic of the government. it is this is very to be adversarial to some degree. my not having to testify on monday to some degree preserves that ability to be adversarial. and, frankly, it makes my sources feel a lot better. amy: george chidi, independent journalist in atlanta. we will link to your piece "the real behind the wall: a look inside the infamous, deadly fulton county jail." next up, i major summit of the brics nations is getting underway in johannesburg. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "matter of time" by sharon jones & the dap-kings. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. chinese president xi jinping, brazilian president lula da silva, and india prime minister -- indian president narendra modi are arriving today in south africa for a major summit in johannesburg of brics, which is an acronym for brazil, russia, india, china, and south africa. russia is sending foreign minister sergei lavrov after vladimir putin decided not to make the trip to avoid facing possible arrest. south africa is a signatory to the international criminal court, which has issued an arrest warrant for putin for alleged war crimes in ukraine. south africa would be obligated to arrest him if he arrived there. while the brics alliance was

formed in 2006, it appears poised to expand. more than 20 countries have formally applied to join brics and others have expressed interest. south african president cyril ramphosa talked about the importance of brics during a speech monday. >> this brics summit is particularly important as it is being held as the world is confronted by fundamental challenges that are bound to determine the cause of international events for years to come. our world is becoming increasingly complex and structured -- fractured as it is polarized and competing with each other in various competing camps. amy: we are joined now by vijay prashad, director of the tricontinental institute for social research. vijay's most recent book, co-authored with professor noam chomsky "the withdrawal: iraq, , libya, afghanistan, and the fragility of u.s. power."

vijay prashad's recent article is headlined "the brics have changed the balance of forces, but they will not by themselves change the world." if you can explain the significance this meeting taken place in south africa right now and also in the context of what is going on quite far away about the war in ukraine? >> well, amy, it is great to be with you. this is the 15th brics summit, the first one in person since 2019. it brings together heads of governments of these important countries. yes, it is also the first brics summit since the war began in ukraine 18 months ago. it is important to recognize one of the reasons why this particular gathering is so important. two of the brics countries,

russia and china, are members of the security council. they are part of the five permanent members of the sickly counsel. it is important -- security council. it is important that three other members, brazil, south africa and india, have long applied to be permanent members of the u.n. security council. in other words, to have a veto. there is no latin american with a permanent seat on the security council. roselle has asked for that seat. there is no african power on the security council with a permanent seat. south africa has long lobbied for that position. india is the country with the world's largest population and has for 20 years asked for a place at the security council. these are three very important powers that in the context of the war in ukraine have tried to put themselves forward, that is

brazil come with a peace plan, south africa with a plan that has come from leaders of african countries, and india making a role through the brics but also the g20 try to develop a peace plan. these are countries frustrated not to have a seat at the security council. and for them, the brics is an instrument to push forward their political views which they feel are not taken seriously, particularly by the western countries, they feel have blocked them from permanent seats on the security council. i think if you're asking about the ukraine war itself, it is important to see the brics in the context of aspirations denied through the u.n. security council and also to some extent aspirations denied through the g20. during the financial crisis when u.s. banks went south, there was

an argument made by g-7 countries that in countries like india, china, indonesia help liquefy western banks come the g7 would be wrapped up in the g20 would take its place. that promise was also not put forward. it was not in a sense made real. the g20 continues to meet but it is still in the shadow of the g7. all of these frustrated political ambitions of large countries like india, brazil, and south africa, these frustrations run through the brics. that is why this summit is so important. lula is back on the world stage committed to make his mark, particularly on the continent of africa which this brazilian president takes very seriously. juan: i wanted to ask you, democracy now! had two guests on yesterday to also talk about the

brics summit. to say the least, both of them were skeptical, practically dismissive of the importance of brics. one of them said "this brics was projecting a false hope to the masses" and the other, the director of the center for social change at the university of johannesburg, said that the new applicants are basically a group of "tyrannies in carbon addicted economies." you have a much brighter sense of the hopes of brics. what is the importance of the increasing development of brics? could you talk a little bit about origin? >> patrick and trevor are entitled to their opinions and i am sure they have very positive things to say about other things, but the fact is that neither of the two of them nor i established brics nor in a sense

are we able to drive the brics agenda. when one analyzes something like brics, i think rather than taking a moralistic position toward it, it is important to understand what it is doing. 22 governments have elected to join brics one way or the other. some of them are very complicated countries at this present moment. saudi arabia is in a very complicated situation. it is sort of dancing between the worlds. seven of the 13 minutes of opec have applied to join the brics. this is very significant for shifts in the world balance. whether you like it or not, that is a separate issue. let's first try to understand as best we can what is happening. when india, brazil, south africa came together to try to break the wtos, quite strict approach

to intellectual property rights, india is one of the largest producers of pharmaceuticals. brazil and south africa at the time were keen to get access to low price aids drugs, hiv aids cartel. india could produce it but was not able to sell it to these countries because of the strict regime. breaking the trips regime through ipsa, that was the origin story of the brics. in 2006, brazil, russia, china, and india had a meeting at the silence of the united nations where they talked about the need for a do monetary and trade order. this was a preparatory discussion. in 2009, these countries,

together to launch the brics summit. what is really important to understand and why we should not exaggerate the potential of the brics, initially brics comes together in frustration with what they think the leadership of western countries over the world fiscal and monetary order. the economic crisis of 2006, 2 thousand seven was pretty shocking for countries like india, china. they put a lot of their eggs in the basket of the western economic growth of the u.s. market as the market of last resort. the collapse of the western financial system of united states market is the market of last resort allow these countries to think through their own sense of being tied to the u.s. in particular, and they started to look for alternatives. alternatives were -- and there are a number of them -- through the brics process, but also through china which was a

reaction to the collapse of the western financial system and the u.s. market. in that sense, brics is largely a trade block. excuse me. largely a trade block. the rest is basically an aftermath. juan: you mention the issue of the world wanted terry sis -- world monetary system. the importance of the brics bank, the new development bank based in china and headed by dilma rousseff in terms of breaking the stranglehold or the monopoly, groups like the imf and the world bank have on international finance? >> it is important when we start looking at the new development bank to understand what the development regime has been since 1944, since the meeting with international monetary fund

and the world bank were created. the imf had pretty interesting origins. by the 1970's, have been running a very narrow policy space kind of program which is just say they were offering countries struggling to break out of the shackles of colonialism. they were offering them debt. this debt was being offered in a very narrow way. it was being offered basically to build, you know, to continue to allow an economy of export of raw materials and products largely from the west at the time. what this structural adjustment program allowed the imf to do in many of these poor countries is force the countries to cut back on spending for education, health care, and so on, only built up the economy toward

export. when these countries wanted to quite catastrophic that come and cycle of permanent debt, they began to borrow not for infrastructure but for debt servicing, to pay off their debt. the imf then produced a debt austerity cycle. rather a permanent structure. what the new development bank was set up to do, and very recently only in 2015 with $100 billion of capital, it was set up to try to break the guardian not tied by the international monetary fund. not to linda money for debt servicing but for infrastructure. ever since dilma rousseff has come to the helm less than year ago, she said the bank is going to lead without conditionality's, without telling countries they can't spend on education or can't spent on health care. this is a huge departure. will they be able to succeed?

the bank was only created in 2015. the contingency reserve arrangement which was to be the substitute for the imf with $100 billion of capital, the contingency reserve arrangement hasn't even started working yet. people who criticize these institutions without them actually having any time to develop themselves, start building their own history as it were, i find this premature. let's see how they go. let's see if the contingency reserve arrangement will be a substitute for the international monetary fund. dilma rousseff has said she is interested in experimenting with local currency lending. she is interested in using, for instance, currency swaps as an instrument, something the people's bank of china has already been doing. she is interested in providing debt for infrastructure, not for

debt payment. that is the one conditionality i suppose even though she said no conditionality's. let these institutions germinate. they're going to meet again and talk about the new monetary system at this brics meeting. let's listen to what they have learned. amy: this is what trevor said yesterday, the activist, chair of the united front, speaking about brics. >> [indiscernible]

amy: that is chair of the united front. vijay prashad, and other cases, i expect you share some of his analysis. your thought on what he said? >> to be honest, i think his is a strawman argument. nobody is saying, certainly the brics don't consider themselves to be an anti-imperialist platform. these are very large countries in the world. you put together their gross domestic product come the global share of the gdp of the brics

countries greater than the global share of the gdp of the g7. these are large countries. these are not -- this is not a socialist bloc or anti-imperialist bloc standing against the west. quite the contrary. this is a group of large southern countries that are basically saying that no longer do they believe that the west's interest is equivalent to their interests. they are putting forward the national, regional interest to the fore. they no longer want to be "the veranda boys," phrase used by a politician in the 1960's. they don't want to sit and do whatever the west tells them. they are driving their own agenda. i think it is a little absurd to judge them based on a socialistic standard. obviously -- i mean, look at the

indian government. it has been savaging democracy. it has been going after the farmers and so on. but that does not mean one doesn't have a dialectical understanding of the role of a country like india on the global stage. on the one hand, india is pursuing a full-scale capitalist project against its own people and someone. on the other hand, it is also turning around to the western countries and saying, your issues are not our issues. i was interested to see recently when the u.s. -- some u.s. congressman said, maybe india should join nato plus. the indian foreign minister said in a television program, india is not interested in the nato template. i thought that was an interesting statement. let's take that seriously. how do we understand that statement? well, the way to understand it, there's a kind of new mood visible in sections of the

global south. in our institute, we are calling this the new nonalignment. when those groups were created in 1961 in belgrade, all of the countries that came to belgrade were not all countries with a socialist agenda. on the one side you had fidel castro's cuba led by the prime minister. on the others, had very much pro-western sri lanka at the meeting. this is a nonaligned -- this is not a socialist emergent. i think that kind of criticism is literally a strawman criticism. does not help you understand what this is. this is not claiming to be an anti-imperialist bloc. on the others, it is perhaps indicating a kind of you nonalignment. what i was interested in is the statement made by the u.n.

secretary-general at the release of a report or new agenda for peace. at that event, he said the post-cold war world has ended. the post-cold war world. that means the world that was created after 1991. he said that world has ended. he said, we are in a new period. he said some people are calling this the era of multiple dirty. i think it is premature to name something right now. we're in a new era. let's try to understand. certainly not great of anti-imperialism but it might be the emergence of a new nonalignment. juan: i have one last question, we only have about a minute, but you mentioned india. but china has also been at the focal point of a lot of the media attention about aggressiveness in the world and you have made the point repeatedly that there is a lot

more democratic debate going on in china, a richness of debate that most americans are not exposed to. you've tried to raise some of those issues on the world stage. could you talk about that? >> of course, i would love to talk about that. this is self raises eyebrows. people get suspicious of you when you merely say people in china, country of 1.4 billion, have a range of political opinions. if you just go and read china's periodicals, there is a range of opinion, including of the brics, including of countries that participate in the bilton road initiative. there are some sections in china who think this is a waste of time. china is a very strong economy. some of these other countries are simply not able to pull their weight. why is china bothering with them? recently, xi jinping said china is any ocean. other countries might be like, little puddles.

an ocean might have turbulence but at the end of the day, it is still an ocean. this attitude is in china, of course. so if you believe that, why are you bothering with argentina? why would you bother with the united arab emirates? you should only play with a very big players in the world. there are very strong opinions out there, which they know, china must play a role in the global south. china has enormous surpluses. it must lead for infrastructure development and not that repayment and so on. this is an interesting period where there are lots of debate and the brics meetings are places where a great deal of debate happens. this is not a place where people just come and not an agreed. it is a place of great debate. dilma rousseff is going to johannesburg to discuss and debate local currencies, pushing the idea that people need to trade in their own currencies. i think these are rich and

important discussions. i am surprised how little these discussions carryover into the west. amy: vijay prashad, thank you for being with us director of , the tricontinental institute for social research. we will link to your new article "the brics have changed the balance of forces, but they will not by themselves change the world." in 20 seconds, we go to ecuador where voters have passed an historic referendum to block oil extraction in yasuni national park. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "hana chagra" by humazapas. this is democracy now! i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. we end today's show in ecuador where voters on sunday overwhelmingly supported a historic referendum blocking oil extraction in the amazon's yasuni national park, the largest protected area in ecuador with massive petroleum reserves crossing through indigenous yasuni land. the effort was spearheaded by indigenous leaders and environmental defenders. this comes as ecuadorians also took to the polls sunday for a snap presidential election that saw leftist luisa gonzález take -- place ahead of a run-off first election in october. at least three political leaders were killed, assassinated, ahead of the election. for more, we go to puyo, ecuador to speak with helena gualinga, a youth kichwa sarayaku environmental activist who campaigned for the referendum and grew up in the remote kichwa sarayaku community in the ecuadorian amazon.

can you talk about the significance of this vote? >> yes. this vote, first of all, this referendum was supposed to take place 10 years ago and because of corruption it did not happen and now finally, 10 years later, it was passed. there was a lot of uncertainty of what the results would be. however, today ecuador has really shown that ecuador is a country that is committed to protecting the amazon rain and protecting indigenous people. it set a crucial precedent. this is the first time that people get to vote on an all project, let alone an existing oil project. and now this oil project has two exit even though they still have -- they are still active in that territory. it is really, really important

on a national level but also for the world. i mean, a country like ecuador that has been dependent on oil for many, many years economically decides to vote out oil in the amazon really shows that the way that we should be going into. juan: helene, this is a very personal story for you. you grew up in a remote community in the ecuadorian amazon. tell us about your community and why you have said being an environmental activist, it was not a choice for you. >> i grew up in a community here in the ecuadorian amazon. we fought whale when i was a child. i witnessed everything that happens when big oil tries to come into your community without consent. what was happening in the yasuni was happening when they wanted

to start -- it was happening around the same time as my community was able to kick out the oil company from our territory. so this is a really interesting time as well where we actually grew up witnessing what was happened to yasuni 10 years ago when they allowed oil exploitation as well as we were able to protect our territories. now 10 years later, we are able to protect the yasuni territory as well which is incredibly remarkable in the way it has been done because it is through popular vote and we millions of people who have backed this up. yes, of course, this has been very emotional for everyone involved, special for those who come from the yasuni territory and have been fighting for this for over 10 years trying to protect their lands. amy: can you talk about how this is a blow to the ecuadoran president lasso and the

significance of the region, the yasuni forest, one of the must bow diverse places on earth, and the oil company being kicked out? >> the oil company that is been kicked out is a state owned company. they only have one year left of the contract. basically, the referendum is to see if there's a new contract or if the contract is ended. they have been promoting the no vote but many people within government have stayed silent on this, which is surprising. i think what is more interesting , i guess, like the response of the government, is the response of the new candidates. because at the same time, there was residential elections. luisa gonzález has clearly been in favor of the no vote and it is the protection of this place because her party was the party

that actually allowed oil exportation in yasuni. in her opponent daniel noboa has been in favor of protecting it. interesting also to see how they and the second round of the election will defend the yes vote and no vote because now whichever one wins has two comply with the ecuadorian people voted, which is to protect this place and create a plan for the oil companies exit. i think that is much more interesting because the no vote has been -- there's been a really, really hard campaign from luisa gonzález's side and her party and her team. amy: so you take the opposite position, just to be clear. what parts are able to be

exploited by petroleum company? >> unfortunately, within the yasuni national park, beside the one in question in this particular referendum, there are eight oil blocs active. i guess next to them there are 13 or outside of the national park are 13 oil blocs still being exploited. yesterday we got the news that waorani youth usually get their school fees and university fees get paid by the oil company, now they are not getting paid by the oil company or their school fees -- amy: 10 seconds. >> scholarships are not being covered by the oil companies anymore. even though within the waorani tentative tory there are so oil blocks.

-- territory there are still oil blocks. there was a lot of confusion on the provinces where there are oil blocks actually were the only ones that voted against this where they had a majority -- on amy: we're going to leave it there but continued after the show with an interview in spanish. helena

hello, and welcome to nhk "newsline." i'm catherine kobayashi new york. the heads of the nations collectively known as brics gathered. but the leaders have ambitions beyond their sphere. they're hoping to bring more