08/23/23 08/23/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> we found evidence saudi border guards have used explosive weapons and shot people at close range in what appears to be a policy targeting migrants and asylum seekers. amy: human rights watch is accusing saudi arabia of killing hundreds of ethiopian migrants and asylum seekers who've tried to cross the yemen-saudi border. we will get the latest.

then we look at the 70th anniversary of the cia and mi6-backed coup in iran after mohammed mosaddegh nationalized iran's oil industry. >> the united states, together with britain, participated in a coup in iran. >> mosaddegh and his government work swept from power. amy: we will speak to the iranian filmmaker taghi amirani. he directed the documentary "coup 53." as well as ervand abrahamian, one of the leading historians of modern iran. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in greece, the remains of at least 18 people believed to be

asylum seekers were found in the dadia forest where wildfires have been blazing for nearly one week. the dense forest is near the turkish border in northeastern greece, making it a common migration route for people fleeing syria and other countries in the region with the hopes of reaching europe. blistering heatwaves and dry and windy conditions have set off dozens of wildfires across greece. hundreds of firefighters have been deployed to fight the blazes while hospitals and clinics are almost at capacity. this is a nurse in the city of alexandroupolis. >> i have been working for 27 years. i have never seen anything war like this. it is like war conditions -- it is like work conditions. it was like a war, like a bomb exploded. amy: countries across europe are in the midst of yet another heatwave as temperatures hit or top 104 degrees fahrenheit in italy and france.

here in the united states, heat indexes have been approaching 130 degrees in some areas as triple-digit temperatures scorch much of the midwest, the central plains, and southern states. nearly 150 million people were under heat alerts tuesday. voters are heading to the polls in zimbabwe for nationwide today, as president emmerson mnangagwa and his ruling zanu-pf party face another challenge from nelson chamisa. in 2018, he contested his loss to mnangagwa and six people were killed in post-election protests. mnangagwa was previously a liberation fighter and came to power in 2017 by leading a coup which ousted robert mugabe. jim issa has c --hamisa has vowed to implement economic reforms and bring zimbabwe out of isolation stemming from eu and u.s. sanctions over human rights concerns. chamisa addressed supporters at a rally sunday. >> [indiscernible]

this time i will not accept to allow him to still the election. amy: the african union has suspended niger over the july 26 coup military coup. the au also said it would "evaluate the repercussions" of possible military intervention by the west african bloc ecowas but rejected any military action from outside the african continent. earlier this week, ecowas rejected a three-year transition back to civilian rule proposed by the head of niger's junta general abdourahaman tchiani. the military junta has received significant support from nigeriens following the coup. in sudan, fighting between military and paramilitary forces over control of a key army base in the capital khartoum continued further day tuesday. thousands have been killed and

millions displaced since violence broke out more than four months ago. this comes as save the children says some 500 children, including two dozen babies, who were under the care of a government-run orphanage in khartoum have died of hunger. the group also reported about 30,000 children no longer have access to medical treatment for malnutrition and other illnesses after the aid group was forced to shut down dozens of its nutrition centers due to the conflict in sudan. japan announced it will start releasing radioactive wastewater from the fukushima nuclear plant into the pacific ocean starting thursday. it has been condemned by a number of nations including china. >> this is extremely selfish and irresponsible. china strongly urges the japanese side to rectify its wrongful decision and withdraw its land -- its plan. amy: hong kong and macau said they will impose a ban on seafood in points from 10

japanese prefectures. opponents have ramped up protests since the plan was approved last month by the international their agency. this is a protester in tokyo. >> the nuclear disaster happened in japan and japan should send a solid message to the world. in the future, the children will air the burden and have health issues. amy: in cambodia, lawmakers officially elected hun manet, the son of long-standing, outgoing prime minister hun sen, to be the country's new leader. hun sen won re-election last month after eliminating any viable challengers and declared just days later his son would succeed him. hun manet is a military general. analysts say hun sen is expected to keep wielding the bulk of cambodian political power even as he transfers the premiership to his son. china, russia, south africa have called for expanding the ranks of brics nations at the group's summit is underway in

johannesburg, south africa. brics currently includes brazil, russia, india, china, and south africa, but a number of countries from the global south have expressed interest in joining, including saudi arabia, indonesia, iran, argentina, and egypt. the brazilian president luiz inacio lula da silva addressed the summit tuesday. >> i have been looking at adopting a common trade currency that won't replace our national currencies. we have already overtaken the g-7 and are responsible for 32% of the world's gdp in purchasing power parity terms. projections indicate emergent developing markets are the ones that will show the highest rate of growth in the coming years. amy: russia said three people were killed in drone strikes earlier today in belgorod near the ukrainian border. separately, drone attacks continued in moscow, with one hitting a high-rise building. putin virtually addressed the brics summit today and blamed his invasion of ukraine on

western powers attempting to preserve their hegemony. meanwhile, the u.s. is urging american citizens in belarus to leave immediately as tensions mount from the war in ukraine. the u.s. embassy in minsk said citizens should avoid traveling to belarus, citing the "continued facilitation of russia's unprovoked attack on ukraine, the buildup of russian military forces in belarus, and the arbitrary enforcement of local laws." at least 16 people were killed and 36 wounded one of us crashed into a freight truck in central mexico tuesday. some of the injured are asylum-seekers from venezuela headed to the u.s. border for an appointment with customs and border protection. the most recent reports say the majority of victims are mexican nationals. transportation accidents are a leading cause of death for asylum seekers traveling from mexico's southern border to the u.s. in new jersey, residents in plainfield are calling for the resignation of a city planning board member after she threatened immigrant protesters

with calling ice, immigration and customs enforcement, to have them deported. a live video recording posted on facebook showed board member carmencita pile asking questions about the immigration status of peaceful demonstrators who gathered at a street fair over the weekend demanding the city and state provide affordable housing. she is heard saying, "all you need is an ice truck, they'll all be running." the protesters, many of them families, were evicted from their homes earlier this month after their building was condemned due to hundreds of violations. the group make the road new jersey said on social media, "immigrants in new jersey deserve respect, dignity and safe homes, not deportation." attorney john eastman, a key figure in donald trump's bid to overturn the 2020 election, surrendered at the fulton county jail tuesday. he is one of trump's 18 co-defendants charged in georgia's racketeering case.

he spoke to reporters outside the jail, where he claimed he and trump will be fully vindicated. >> do you regret attaching our name to the former president? >> not at all. i think every citizen in my position should be willing to stand up. >> are you planning immunity? >> i'm not answering that question. amy: trump has said he will surrender on thursday. former white house chief of staff mark meadows has asked a federal court to block his arrest in georgia and transfer his case to federal court, claiming the charges stem from his position in the u.s. government. meanwhile, the first republican presidential debate is taking place this evening in milwaukee. eight candidates will take the stage -- florida governor ron desantis, south carolina senator tim scott, former south carolina governor nikki haley, entrepreneur vivek ramaswamy, former vice president mike pence, former new jersey governor chris christie, north dakota governor doug burgum, and former arkansas governor asa hutchinson. front-runner trump opted to skip

the debate citing his lead in the polls. he has also refused to sign an rnc pledge to support the eventual republican nominee. a federal appeals court ruled in favor of an alabama law banning gender-affirming care for trans youth, including providing hormone treatments and puberty blockers. the trump-appointed three-judge panel overturned an injunction by a lower court against the ban. all major medical groups have backed gender-affirming care, which is considered life-saving for many. in related news, a federal judge partially blocked a law banning transgender healthcare for minors in georgia. the ruling says the ban on medical professionals providing patients with hormone therapy is likely unconstitutional. also in georgia, the cobb county school board in atlanta voted last week to fire a long-time teacher who read the book "my shadow is purple," which is about gender fluidity and inclusiveness, to her fifth-grade students.

the aclu says 230 anti-lgbtq education laws have been advanced across the united states this year. in atlanta, the family of a man who died earlier this month after police tased him is demanding accountability and for the video of his encounter with police to be released. johnny hollman, a 62-year-old black grandfather and church deacon, was hit by another driver as he was headed home . when the police showed up, they ended up handcuffing and tasing hollman, who later died at the hospital. the atlanta mayor dickens has ordered a full investigation into his death. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. coming up, human rights watch is accusing saudi arabia of killing hundreds of ethiopian migrants and asylum seekers who have tried to cross the yemen e-saudi border. we will get the latest. stay with us.

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amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in new york, joined by democracy now!'s juan gonzález in chicago. hi, juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: the ethiopian government says it plans to investigate a report that border guards in saudi arabia have killed hundreds of ethiopian migrants and asylum seekers who have tried to cross the yemen-saudi border since march 2022. in a statement tuesday, ethiopia's foreign ministry called the deaths a "alleged mass execution" and said it will conduct the probe "in tandem with the saudi authorities." this comes after human rights watch published a damning new report that documents the killings and calls for them to cease immediately. the report cites first-hand accounts from 42 people, over

100 verified videos and photos, and an analysis of satellite imagery. this is an excerpt of a video accompanying the report. a warning, it contains graphic descriptions and images. >> even when i remember, i cry. i saw a guy calling for help. he lost both his legs. he was screaming and saying, are you leaving me here? please don't leave me. we were running for our lives. >> ethiopian migrants and asylum seekers have been tortured come injured, or killed by saudi arabian border guards at the yemen-saudi border. at least hundreds have been killed trying to make this crossing between march 2022 and june 2023. >> when saudi border guards he a

group, they fire continuously. when they kill everyone, they go down to collect all those who did not die. this is what happened to me. i survived. and they came to me and showed me the dead. then they took us to a detention center. >> human rights watch includes first-hand location a 42 people and over 100 videos and photos.

amy: that is part of a video that accompanies the new human rights watch report titled "they fired on us like rain." in a minute, we will speak with reports author. first, this is unmanned in ethiopia -- a man in ethiopia who lost his leg while been shot at. >> we were 45 in number and only three survived. of that i am sure. i called them all and managed to speak to them, the three. god knows what happened to them. they were firing nonstop and i

thought the sky was falling on me. i cannot describe how shocking this. bullets came from the back and front. i thought i was dreaming at first. i could not believe my eyes. i looked around and landed my eyes -- i had no leg anymore. started praying, lying there. there is a rain of bullets waiting for you. look at me and learn. amy: we're joined right now by the report's author nadia hardman, a researcher in the refugee and migrants rights division of human rights watch. welcome to democracy now! a devastating report. talk about how you learned of this and explain further what has taken place over the last year. >> thank you for having me on the program. i have been documenting the route, the eastern route that is

not well known by predominantly ethiopian migrants that are leaving from the horn of africa through yemen facilitated by smuggling and trafficking networks that are extremely abusive to the border with saudi arabia, trying to cross and access job opportunities in country. we know over 750,000 ethiopians do and work -- do live and work in saudi arabia. in the past, we have documented border killings by saudi border guards but these were infrequent and occasional. generally, horrifying detention centers inside saudi arabia, and the deportations back to ethiopia. what we found in this report, a complete change in policy from occasional shooting to widespread systematic attacks, use of explosive weapons against

large groups of unarmed migrant and asylum seekers -- many of them are women and kids. or shooting at close range of smaller groups trying to cross into country. many of the testimonies i collected were where we were able to analyze kilometers of satellite imagery, saudi border guard posts along the route. we found burial sites that have increased over the research periods that i conducted ngo located videos of dead and wounded migrants. juan: nadia, ethiopia is one of the largest countries in africa in terms of population second only to nigeria.

about 120 5 million people. you mentioned 700 50,000 approximately of ethiopians are working in saudi arabia. what is driving those who are fleeing the country? what are the conditions in ethiopia they face? >> good question. the reasons have remained steady over the years. the conflict and locality of those conflicts changed. we had the conflict in northern ethiopia have driven a lot of the that i interviewed. and extreme poverty. most people that i spoke to who left said they were desperate to try and access a better life in saudi arabia. they know if the opiates are working there. -- they know there are ethiopians working there. generally, they are making a living. there's also the criminal network of smugglers and traffickers that do prey on an exploit ethiopians that

potentially don't know what awaits them. over 50% did not know there was a conflict inside yemen. i certainly don't think they understand potentially the brutality they may face. the women and girls that were sexual assaulted during the journey and then had to undergo the killings they witnessed when they tried to cross the border. juan: and what has been the response of the ethiopian and saudi governments, especially in saudi arabia? has there basically been a change of policy from the top and the government in dealing with migrants coming into the country? >> a lot of the questions i get, the responses are generally conjecture because we have not had a direct engagement with the saudi authorities on this. we did receive a reply from the houthi forces who facilitate

access to the border come helping people get there. from the saudi authorities, no, we wrote a list of questions and put our finding to the authorities well over three weeks ago. we did not receive a reply. anything i have seen recently in the last few days since we released the report has been replaced to journalists. this new joint investigation that was announced, we have not received any statement on that. that is a general statement that has been put out. i would cast doubt on the independence of the investigation conducted by ethiopia and saudi arabia. i don't know a single credible investigation the saudi authorities have conducted on the massive violations they have committed against ethiopian migrants and other migrants inside the country. i don't have any faith they would conduct the convention -- an independent investigation on these massive killings. i would point out the u.n. wrote

to saudi arabia last year these letters were made public in october outlining similar abuses to ours. saudi arabia responded in march of this year 2023 and said they found no evidence of any of the kind of allegations that were listed. i think we have already shown that saudi arabia is unwilling and unable to conduct any kind of meaningful investigation, and waited -- we need that for the victims. amy: nadia, your report clearly finds systemic attacks and killings of those crossing the border. can you talk or about saudi border guards firing explosive weapons that migrants who had just been released from temporary saudi detention? >> this is the last case i interviewed. i generally interviewed a practice of saudi border guards collecting the survivors, so

people would undergo an explosive weapons attack. people said they were fired at by mortar projectiles. they were traumatized and then it would be injured, which there would be approached by saudi border guards who then would temporarily detain them in detention centers. which are also abusive and they experienced ill-treatment and a medical assistance or care. but this one case, the last case i interviewed, this woman crossed the border, was detained by saudi border guards who took her to a detention facility for eight months. she was then released and pushed back toward the yemeni border and her and her group were fired on by explosive weapon. so she was literally fleeing back into yemen. she witnessed 20 people killed. she sent me photographs of the wound she had on the side of her

face that she suffered because of the shrapnel she said flew at her face. i think that is also showed in our video i believe. amy: and where were the weapons from? >> one thing we don't know is who is manufacturing the weapons and exactly what is being used. we asked saudi arabia a list of questions about this. we did find saudi boater guard post and -- border guard posts and found a vehicle we believe the machinery was mounted on top. you can't see much from satellite imagery. we were going on a lot of witness testimony. one thing we did do is send the pictures, the individuals i interviewed sent me graphic images and video footage, and we sent that to an external forensic expert who confirmed the images are consistent with explosive weapons use and show evidence of fragmentation,

shrapnel, burn scars. we are confident the weapons are used most of the question is, who is making them? where are they from? exactly what is being used? that is something we want to investigate further and ask saudis to come forward with this. amy: do you know if the mass killing is continuing? >> i continue to receive reports it is ongoing. i'm not investigating right now but it is extremely distressing to know this is continuing to this day. that is our constant and immediate call to saudi arabia to cease killing ethiopian migrants and asylum seekers at its border and to implore other governments to put pressure on saudi arabia. there's a menu of recommendations we have to implement to ensure there is accountability for these horrendous crimes. amy: nadia hardman, thank you for being with this, author of the new human rights watch

report titled "they fired on us like rain." nadia is a researcher in the refugee and migrants rights division of human rights watch. we will link to that report at democracynow.org. coming up, it is the 70th anniversary of the cia mi6-backed coup in iran, 1953. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. we turn now to look at the 70th anniversary of an event that reshaped the middle east, the 1953 u.s.- and u.k.-backed coup

in iran that overthrew iran's democratically elected prime minister mohammad mosaddegh. the aftershocks of the coup are still being felt today. the coup came two years after mossadegh nationalized iran's oil industry. he argued iran should begin profiting from its vast oil reserves, which had been exclusively controlled by the anglo-iranian oil company. the company later became known as british petroleum, bp. coup was led in part by a cia agent named kermit roosevelt, the grandson of president theodore roosevelt. the crushing of iran's first democratic government ushered in more than two decades of dictatorship under the shah, who relied heavily on u.s. aid and arms. the anti-american backlash that toppled the shah in 1979 shook the whole region. in moment, we will be joined by two guests who have researched the coup for years. but first, we turn to the trailer of the documentary "coup

53." >> 1953, the u.s. together with britain, participated in the coup with iran that got rid of mosaddegh. >> 300 killed and many wounded were conservative estimates. >> the british government has never officially acknowledged it's involved in the coup. >> i don't think at any time we planned a coup d'état. >> these words have not been heard or seen for over 34 years. >> evidence that has the potential to turn a dark chapter of history inside out. >> your british counterpart was in fact blank. could you tell me something about the man blank? >> he was somebody who felt there were things to be said. >> a member of the british

government was involved in the assassination of the chief of police. >> yes. >> so they tied him up, strangled him, and shot him. are you involved in the assassination? >> yes. >> coup in iran is shaping politics to this day. united states does not want democracy in the middle east. amy: that is the trailer to the documentary "coup 53," directed by the iranian filmmaker taghi amirani, who joins us now. he made the film with the oscar winning filmmaker walter murch. we are also joined by ervand abrahamian. he is a retired professor of history at the city university of new york. his most recent book is titled "oil crisis in iran: from nationalism to coup d'état." he is the author of several books, including, "the coup:

1953, the cia, and the roots of modern u.s.-iran relations." we are talking about an event 70 years ago that has shaped not only the middle east, but i think you could say geopolitics in the world today. ervand abrahamian, if you can start off by talking about the significance of this moment. a year after the same model would be used to overthrow the democratically elected leader in guatemala. but what happened? why the united states and britain were so hell-bent on toppling democracy in iran? >> well, the official argument said it was to save iran from communism and the soviet threat. in reality, when you look at the documents, there was no communist threat or soviet interest in iran. the main concern of the united

states was that if nationalization in iran of oil was successful, this was set a terrible example to other countries where u.s. oil interests were present. which is quite saudi arabia, venezuela, indonesia. so the nightmare in washington was if you have a successful nationalization in iran, this would be a contagious disease that would spread throughout the world. and this would change the whole balance of power. and this was the main interest. of course, american politicians don't want to admit economic issues are at play with their foreign policies, so they have underplayed this -- they never mentioned this publicly. what they insisted was the so-called communist threat. the british were quite honest.

they said they used the bogie of communism to basically persuade people the coup was justifiable. juan: professor, when you say there was no communist threat to take over the country but certainly was a vibrant communist party in iran at that time to the party which backed nationalization even though it also opposed mosaddegh on a bunch of issues. wasn't the attempt on united states to use and actually, as i understand it, some of the documents revealed recently showed the british and the u.s. actually tried to stir up the population in iran against the communists by backing false flag operations in the weeks before the overthrow. >> they did that but had a

strength in the factories and the street, organized strikes, demonstrations. a people like roosevelt, eisenhower, or hard-nosed realists. they knew there's a difference between organize demonstration in tehran to carrying out a revolution or a coup. the cia reports from tehran, the actual cia analysts on the ground, they said the party was not a threat. it was not even prepared for a coup. it wasn't talking and thinking of a coup. even the readings that was required for the party members in 1953 was lenin's work on

leftism. the communist party was thinking about a coup are revolution would not be using or's infantile leftism as an instruction book. this was an imagined threat. of course the press, especially the new york times, they exaggerated the today strikes and the demonstration in order to come -- create the mood in the america public there was a major threat coming from the left in iran. amy: let's turn to an excerpt from "coup 53." we see the filmmaker taghi amirani as he meets with malcolm byrne at the archive. >> and deputy director and research director at the national ticket archive, nongovernmental organization based in george washington

university. there are at least three internal histories the cia has produced. probably the late 1970's, one of these items was produced. looks it is when you write to them asking for information? >> this is the response letter. here's the document. >> battle for iran, which is still going on. >> earlier versions, you will see, this is all plotted out -- blocked out. >> there still a lot of blank pages. they're supposed to show you what was there. what was new was essentially this page. this military coup that overthrew mosaddegh was carried out under cia direction. they had never, to my knowledge, officially a alleged their role in the coup. >> i'm standing in front of the

filing cabinet of a drawer full of documents that essentially change the fate of my country, changed my fate. what happened to me, my family. it is like how your lives, her destiny, your fate is encapsulated. >> in half a file drawer. >> this changed iran, this box of papers most of amy: in the next clip from the film, taghi amirani reads from the interview transcripts he found with the mi6 spy norman derbyshire that were done for the british tv series "end of empire." >> if you want coup in detail, even if we did not. >> why did they paste it into a script, probably edited into the film, but he did not make the final cut.

he is not in the finished film. and remarkable stroke of luck, we discovered the archive all of the unused footage from the episode. available to the public but never digitized until now. 36 cans of film. 520 minutes of interview. among which we hope to find norman job are sure. and it is recording. great. we digitize the entire collection of "end of empire" given to us. we did not find norman

derbyshire. amy: and in this clip from "coup 53," taghi amirani goes through the photographs and film clips you accessed for "end of empire," the british tv series about the end of british empire as he searched for footage of mi6 spy norman darbyshire. >> class of 1952. and this is norman derbyshire. looking very much the undercover spy most of he would have been 29 when this photograph was taken. was born on october 1, 1924. he died june 17, 1993. his cia counterpart stephen mead , we found his can fl given the he is not in the finished film. stephen mead on iran, this is

what "end of empire" production team thought of stephen mead. hatchet face, like a bit part player in a b v thriller. this is brilliant. her british counterpart was in fact blank. could you tell me something about the man blank? >> could you tell something about the man norman derbyshire? >> i did not know him at all before i met him. >> what kind of a man was blank? >> what kind of a man was norman derbyshire? >> what kind of a man was norman darbyshire and why has this name been blank out? amy: and in this clip from "coup 53" of ralph fiennes who re-enacts the part of the darbyshire interview transcript you found after he was interviewed but did not appear

in the "end of empire" series. >> norman derbyshire take one. what you're about to see here is the result of a failure to find any film or audio of the darbyshire review. we resorted to bringing his words to life. ralph fiennes is about to speak words from 1953 telling us things the british did not want anyone to hear. these are from the original documentary. cooks sorry, i'm getting drawn into -- >> just imagine how i felt when i came across it when late-night in the office. >> amy: again, a clip from "coup 53." taghi amirani was an iranian physicist who became a film maker and directed this documentary "coup 53."

it was released august 19, 2019, the anniversary of the u.s.-backed mi6-backed or i should say created coup that overthrew the democratically elected leader of iran. this is an astounding documentary. this is a documentary the likes of which we rarely see. if people are wondering why ralph fiennes is in it, it is because he was replacing the cutout words of this reddish spy. -- reddish spy. if you can talk about what darbyshire means in terms of iran and also on the u.s. side, kermit roosevelt who will later talk white honestly about how he went on behalf of the dulles brothers, john foster dulles and allen dulles, the head of the

cia and the state department, john foster dulles who would represent corporations interested in overthrowing democracies. and overthrew mosaddegh. >> thank you so much. it is a pleasure to join you. delighted you find it astounding. it is entirely due to walter murch, the incredible cast of interviewees, along with david talbert and the backbone of commentary and knowledgeable information on the coup. in the absence of the british official role in this leading coup, norman darbyshire's interview and straight -- transcript stands in. imagine making a film about the most important history of your country and you find a man who

was essentially the writer and director of this coup in his own words. revealing the most incredible amount of data, going rogue, for whatever, we can speculate why he went rogue, giving this incredible interview and then vanishing and for whatever reason "the end" producers -- the "end of empire" producers could not or did not use this interview in their film. we got lucky. i got lucky. i'm not the world's best documentary maker but i am the luckiest. just a lucky break to come across this transcript which was, ironically, in the basement of mosaddegh's grandson in paris until i showed up and found it by chance. and my mind just blew by the staggering amount of detail.

juan: taghi amirani, i wanted to ask you, the lessons for today, especially for people in other parts of the world about these coups is the way the british government and the u.s. government often try to mask their actions by promoting so-called demonstrations or uprisings in the street against government that they want overthrown, particularly i think in the iranian situation the use of radical islamic clerics for instance, at the time there was an ayatollah kashani who had been a collaborator with the nazis during world war ii but then utilized by their british and the americans to stir up protest against the mosaddegh regime. there was a young cleric i

telecom many who was in the street -- call me in the street protesting. could you talk about the use of -- by the united states and the british because of course they went on to do it in afghanistan and egypt and others to use radical islamic clerics as i mean to attack modernist or progressive political leaders? >> my enemy's enemy is always my friend. kashani was working together with assad and try to nationalize oil and stand up to the british. they parted ways in july 1962 and huge demonstration when mosaddegh resigned because he wanted to have more control and wanted the shah to be a symbolic monarch. but they parted ways because in kashani's eyes, mosaddegh was a

hungry dictator try to keep too much control and that. the melting pot of -- it was multifaceted. the religious community turned against him. agents were underground. bribery. the press were bought. the key ingredients of any coup, including assassination of key allies. it is the process. i don't have information of ayatollah khomeini being in the crowd but i know in oliver stone's series, it is mentioned. there is a lot of debate about the conflict between because shawnee and -- because shawnee and mosaddegh.

he had ambitions about being a leader in the modern world not just iran. mosaddegh wrote his own death sentence the moment he nationalize oil. the british decided he had to go that moment. the bogeyman of communism was exactly that. we have documents which we put out in our new sequel about what happened to "coup 53." we show documents with americans discussing with the british whether they were coming and joining the coup. they're discussing sharing the oil. basically saying, yeah, we will help buy iranian oil. the american oil companies walked away with 40%.

it is still debated. it is still a hot topic. the impact is still with us. we are living with the consequences of the coup. of course it emboldened the ca to go out and do it again. marking the 50th anniversary of the chilean coup. pinochet replacing allende. the history is not the past and the past is still the past. we're still living with the disasters of this event. amy: taghi amirani, if you can talk specifically about the u.s. role? yet this fascinating, what is it, the interview with kermit roosevelt, teddy roosevelt's grandson who was an official within the cia. he takes a couple of suitcases, money, million dollars, but actually it only cost him $60,000. talk about what he did in iran

and doing this at the behest of the british. it was anglo iranian oil, bp, iran had thrown out the british seeing mosaddegh realize the british were fomenting a coup. so they called on the u.s. and ultimately it would be under eisenhower that they would overthrow iran. >> yeah. i grew up -- we all grew up with the story of the cia coup run by kermit roosevelt. as it is put eloquently in our film, could speak persian, was only in iran for three weeks. he was more of a bag man and adventurous. he was allowed to go and take credit for the coup. he wrote books about it, he was on chat shows, talk shows. he had audiences with the shah. he did really well out of this coup. darbyshire, as ralph fiennes

tells us in a brilliant interview in "the new yorker was quote essentially wanted a curtain call. he wanted to claim credit for what was his show. when it's great detail about his life and so this is essentially partly professional rivalry. i do the hard work, darbyshire was in iran from the age of 19. you really understood the psyche of the iranian mob as he said in the interview in our film. he knows how to turn them, what buttons to press. this was a darbyshire project. as we talked about earlier, the british wanted their oil back. this coup was always about oil. iraq was about oil.

it is always about oil. as a great robert fisk said,iraq's only expert was turns, we would not be there. derbyshire is the main start of this film. we got lucky we found him. we got lucky we got ralph fiennes to be his avatar. everything that happened to "coup 53," the incentive of this from, the british have not officially admitted to their key role, their leading role. it was an mi6 coup aided by the cia who is dragged -- an organization in 1953. the first time it went off campus to play and it did well. it was quick, cheap, and no americans were killed. if you hundred iranians died, but -- a few hundred iranians died, but who cares about that?

it emboldened them to the game. kermit coming back and saying, have a great weekend. coming on monday, have other ideas stop there was one other thing i had to say. kermit roosevelt, in not really being an expert, write his book and give the interview [indiscernible] he says i have $700,000 and only spent $10,000. i would not take anything kermit roosevelt says at face value as true. he was a fabricator, a self grand i think i. darbyshire says in his interview

, [indiscernible] i know because i spent it. juan: i would like to bring in professor ervand abrahamian back to the conversation. the whole issue of the change in administration in the united states because the nationalization happened during the truman administration, but president truman was reluctant to intervene according to some accounts. it was only when eisenhower came in and of course the dulles brothers as part of his administration that the coup moved forward as far as the u.s. was concerned. could you talk about the changing administration's? also the impact on iran subsequent to the coup getting up to eventually the iranian revolution of 1979? >> the conventional view is come as you said, it is that truman

said the democratic administration was willing to negotiate and deal with mosaddegh. it was the republican eisenhower administration that carried out the coup. the trouble is, if you look at the documents, right from the beginning, as soon as mosaddegh was elected prime minister and nationalizd, at that time the truman administration was just as eager to actually get rid of mosaddegh. they were not thinking about a coup, they were thinking of a political means of getting rid of him. in fact, they asked the shah to dismiss him. the shah did not have the power to dismiss him. so right from the beginning of the truman administration was already trying to ease mosaddegh out. but an interesting thing is, the reason for that was not because

they were against coups, it was much more surprisingly the shah 's reluctance to carry out a coup. the shah set in 1951, 5 go against mosaddegh in oil nationalization, i will delegitimize my monarchy, my authority. i cannot do that. and he was the one was very reluctant to carry out the coup. amy: 30 seconds. >> right. what the truman administration wanted to do was get rid of mosaddegh to the political process. it was only when that failed that the truman administration put into effect the military coup. amy: we want to thank you both for being with us, ervand abrahamian, retired professor of history at the city university of new york. most recent book "oil crisis in , iran: from nationalism to coup

d'état." and taghi amirani, iranian physicist turned filmmaker who directed "coup 53." everyone should see it. this is the 70th anniversary of the coup iran in. happy birthday

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