>> yevgeny prigozhin missing, believed dead in an aircraft -- air crash in russia. his name was on the passenger list of a private jet that came down. at least 10 confirmed dead. sources are russian authorities. our correspondent is standing by in kyiv or reaction from the ukrainian side. of course, per goshen --

pre-goshen -- prigozhin heavily implicated in much of the death in ukraine. eight bodies have been found at the scene of the crash. pre-goshen -- per goshen -- prigozhin's name was on the passenger list. there have been long-standing rows over the supply of arms, ammunition, and personnel, which put him more and more at odds with the russian establishment. his online first against the system included criticism of his suppose a friend and ally. the rebellion was called off, but it was an act that sent

shotwell -- shockwaves across russia. the biggest question at the time was how long per goshen -- how long per goshen -- how long prig ozhin would last. it is said he is among those killed. he is dead according to a telegram channel which is affiliated with his wagner mercenary group. obviously, it is unconfirmed until we know. but the head of the wagner group , the hero of pressure, it says, true patriot to his motherland, died as a result of his actions -- the actions of traders to pressure, excess.

you can get obviously a different telling of the story from those whose families of soldiers in ukraine who have been killed. i think we need to get some perspective on this from the ukrainian side. good evening to you. the telegram channel purporting to be linked to wagner is saying that prigozhin is dead. reporting from russia is supporting that as well. clearly i'm not asking you about that. i'm asking you, what is the response where you are? i understand there is news from the ukraine presidential office. >> absolutely. reaction from the counselor of the presidential office who shared on his social media earlier and message regarding prigozhin's death. it is obvious putin does not forgive anyone, and he ends his

rather long message with if it is not a ukrainian tribunal, it will be an fsb bullet, implying russian secret services are responsible for prigozhin's death. also a spokesperson of territorial defense said earlier, too, that the nude is -- the news is confirmed. you can see from those reactions that yevgeny prigozhin's death is no surprise at all in the high spheres. also no sympathy from the population. the ukrainians have suffered greatly at the head of wagner

mercenaries, not least in bakhmut where wagner mercenaries managed to capture russian forces and the ukrainian army suffered very heavy losses and are still trying to recapture the city in eastern ukraine, so no sympathy there. i would also like to bring to your attention this poll that was launched a bit earlier by the state-affiliated media, united 24, here in ukraine, which showed that the ukrainian people believe this was an action of russian intelligence. they don't believe it was an accident. they don't -- they believe russian intelligence is responsible if they believe yevgeny prigozhin died today. >> indeed, that point of view

shared by u.s. president joe biden a little earlier. you mentioned bakhmut, of course, which has basically been flattened. there have been atrocities committed, war crimes committed. nonetheless, the evidence is all stacking up. yevgeny prigozhin very much at the center of it all and his mercenaries alongside him. >> absolutely, and it is something that yevgeny prigozhin made no secret of. while he was sharing those videos on his telegram channels and other social media, he was actually boasting about the cruelty of his men. he was clearly part of the russian propaganda calling ukrainians fascist or nazis and the like.

he was not denying that this was a genocidal war that was going on and that the role of his mercenaries was to terrorize the population at not just fight against the regular army, the ukrainian forces, but also commit atrocities wherever they went, and indeed, the wagner mercenaries did spread terror among the ukrainian population, so not just in the east but also everywhere they went since the full-scale invasion of ukraine by russia. once again, yevgeny prigozhin is a figure that has been really despised, hatred even by the population. even ukrainians were quite cheering -- they were quite happy when they saw that per goshen was leading a rebellion against the kremlin.

i have no love or respect for the head of the wagner group, given his records here in ukraine, but they were helping his rebellion would disrupt russia's inner politics enough for ukraine to be able to benefit and perhaps a seat and end of hostilities on the ground. it did not happen, but as soon as per goshen ended his rebellion, there was no doubt his days were counted. this was something the head of ukrainian intelligence said back in june, on june 30. he said that yevgeny prigozhin was now a target of the fsb and 2/3 of ukrainians tonight believe yevgeny prigozhin was eliminated by russian intelligence. >> a view shared by u.s.

president joe biden among others. thank you very much. just to remind you if you are joining us, news has invaded you so far, wagner group chief yevgeny prigozhin dead, the news coming from a telegram channel affiliated with the wagner mercenary group. he and another wagner g4 on board. let's get more reaction and analysis. we bring in a general is that ukraine crisis media center. thank you very much for being with us. your reaction, if indeed it is true that yevgeny prigozhin is dead. >> in a way, we were prepared for such a murder, such an

accident. i can only confirm that multiple ukrainians believed it could not be an accident and it was planned. we know that wagner and its leader, he was weekend after its assault, and in a way, we were prepared for such an accident, but still, we are quite astonished by the reaction and confirmation because three minutes after the accident, russian media were stating that prigozhin was dead, and now this telegram channel talking about the fact that the body has already been identified. in a way they tried to make us seem -- they tried to make us believe that per goshen -- that

prigozhin is dead. we will see how this goes and if it is true. but prigozhin is a criminal and there is no empathy for him. just that he was important for a couple of months. in a way, it also shows the weakness of the russian political system because the private army of wagner was challenging the official army and it was important for the ukrainian army because they quarreled and forget about ukrainians, so this was important, and now we can see how the conflict goes on. >> indeed, it has been confirmed from russian aviation sources that prigozhin was on board the aircraft. basically now i think we are getting confirmation that

prigozhin is actually dead, but we need to take this with a little bit of caution because these things can be slightly misinterpreted, so we are waiting for full confirmation. what we do know is the extent of the damage that the wagner mercenaries led by prigozhin perpetrated, carried out in ukraine. the extent of that -- and obviously you have witnessed this firsthand -- the extent of this must be something that will make you feel physically sick thinking about it. obviously, the men responsible now seems dead. i can imagine, though, from your perspective, there is no joy or rejoicing in that because basically, you still have the problem on your hand because putin is still carrying on with his invasion and with his project. >> yes, exactly. the russian regular army is still occupying ukrainian land and wagner was maybe the most

effective group because we have all witnessed what happened in bakhmut in times when the russian regular army was unable to progress, that wagner did its best, and they succeeded. they were effective, they were extremely cruel, extremely aggressive and without any pity for their own men. now, yes, indeed, it does not change a lot of things on the ground because in bakhmut, specifically, the russian regular army is already there starting from june 2023, so the wagner group was not so much present under the ukrainian men. we know the wagner group was displaced to belarus after this

lukashenko invitation. for sure it will change a lot of things inside russia, and what is really important is to see if this murder would weaken russia 's political system or another option, it is still possible that putin is trying to eliminate wagner to become even stronger in a way, and it could be negative also for ukraine. at this very moment, both options are possible, which is why it is it's important to observe in detail what will

happen next. >> thank you very much indeed for sharing your thoughts with us here on france 24. we are getting confirmation via various sources that prigozhin was on that flight. concrete information as we can confirm it for us -- as we can confirm it for you. for more information, stay with us here on france 24. ♪ >> why does love, the absence of love, end of love, the need for love, result in so much violence? >> i have read it and loved it.

when i heard sarah was directing it, i emailed her kind of incessantly. >> i cannot endure anymore violence. >> the story of an isolated courageous community battered by sexual abuse. >> i was not shocked by. >> talking with stars and others. >> "the new york times" article that was written about it. when you read it, it is terrible. miriam -- what is extraordinary is miriam's book takes that story and turns it into a fable. >> and adaptation of a novel based on a real life mass rape case where over years, men drug

wives and daughters and rape to, blaming them on ghosts and demons. congratulations on the film. the whole audience were glued to their seats when the credits rolled, processing what happened in the film. it is not the first time you have adapted stories. what was it like to adapt this book? >> i fell in love with the book when i read it. the questions were so prophetic and i was fascinated with finding the best actors i could. it is about this sense of what does it mean to sit in a room with people who don't agree with each other and have to come to some kind of consensus to move forward? >> we were given two days to

forgive the attackers before they returned. we hardly knew how to read or write, but that day, we learn how to bond. >> do nothing, stay and fight. >> they are debating if they should stay and fight, stay and do nothing, or if they should leave, and all of those three decisions are huge. they can seem quite small like, oh, just get up and go, but they are massive decisions. that is a big thing. they got to do a lot of talking about it. >> we do not forgive these men. we forfeit our place in heaven. >> surely there is something worth living for in this life, not only the next. >> we do not forgive because we are forced to. >> you did gather some incredible actors. frances mcdormand has a small role as well as producing it. cast includes claire 40 -- clear

-- claire foy. did you always know who would play which will? >> i did not. i thought it was like putting together a theater company and figuring out where people fit in relation to each other. i imagine others actors in different roles than they played. it was where we came to in terms of how that actor played with other actors, and which rules the actors were drawn to. everybody kind of shifted around, but it was like creating this organism and figuring out how it would work together. >> what if the men who are in prison are not guilty? >> why are you asking -- >> shush.

>> i saw him. >> only one. >> he's only one but he named the others. >> what if he lied? >> it was really hard to play her. she kind of broke me apart. >> you can laugh all you like, but we will be forced to leave the colony if you don't forgive the men. >> how will the lord when he arrives find the women if we do not return to the colony. >> if jesus drops down to earth to scoop up his supporters, surely he would be able to locate a few women -- >> let's stay on track. >> ok, i will stay on track. i cannot forgive them. >> her anger comes from a place where she is justifiably angry, but also it is protection against something else, which is accepting something that happened to herself, her family, the trial, and her family in

general and the position they have been put in. >> one of the decisions made was not to show the rape scenes. the film is about how they processed the aftermath. why this process -- why this choice? >> it felt unimportant to me to see the rape scenes. we do show the moment after, where it's difficult to capture the details into memory. that felt important in terms of their experience moving forward, but ultimately, the film was about them finding a way forward together and choosing in community some kind of healing, not about the horror of the assaults themselves. we don't shy away from talking about it, but i also think when you show sexual assault on screen, it can so easily go sideways, if you intended to or not. it can become fetishized or sensationalized, and it's very rarely additive, i think. i cannot think of many examples

where i think it was necessary to show it on screen. it just in general did not feel necessary. >> you had a therapist on set what was the mood like? >> we did our absolute best to make it feel like a healthy working environment, and that meant a lot of laughter, and a lot of joy. we had shorter working hours than usual in north america. it is normal here but in north america, very short working hours. >> that was a big decision you made. as a mother of three young children, you decided you were not going to do the usual 16-hour days. >> for me, i just would not have directed a film again until my kids were a lot older if i had to work regular north american film set hours. that was a sort of boundary i put up really early, and i had great support from friends and the producers, supporting that

and creating this different type of environment. and we had lori haskell, an amazing therapist onset. she could be phoned. she was there for difficult scenes. and we had a rule that any time anyone needed a break, they just took it, that we would not have this sort of emergency room mentality that can happen on film sets. >> we had to initially hold each other off on and off sets and also laugh and, you know, keep it light and kind of just to with each other, and every single woman and men in that room, we all had each other's back. >> it was tough. there were some really tough, long, hard, brutal, technically difficult days, but we just got through it together. i don't think i will ever have an experience like that again. >> one of the big questions in the film is should we forgive.

you have written about your experiences of abuse and trauma. have you come to your own conclusions about the question? >> i think it is about forgiveness is not necessarily an endpoint or destination. i think it can come and go. i think for the most point, i do live in a state basically of forgiveness. i don't think i carry along a lot of active anger and grief. i think i have worked through that over -- i had a lot of decades to work through that and therapy and meditation and all of the things. i do think i am in a general state of forgiveness, but i don't think that can be relied upon to stay stagnant, and i also don't think it needs to be an endpoint for everybody. >> it is both men and women who need to unlearn things to learn something new. it is not about blame or retribution. in your book that came out last year, "run towards the danger," you'd -- you apart about -- you

write about being in an unsafe environment as a child actress. >> i think i'm just very interested in figuring out all the ways that there can be the presence of care on a film set. i think we have become so accustomed to the idea that great art cannot be made without a lot of difficulty in tumult and torture for everybody involved, so i think just figuring out how to debunk that in a real way practically onset every day becomes a real focus for me. how do we put the experience of making this film -- how do we make it a priority along making a film that we are proud of? like, how do we make that intrinsic? >> she is not a dictator. she's a real enabler and a truth sailor and somebody who can hold all those huge energies and points of view is a very special person, and i'm forever grateful that i had this chance to work

with her. >> i know your children were on the set at one point and interested in acting. >> i think we have decided as a society that kids should not work, and i find it always so odd that we make an exception for the film industry, which is probably one of the last places i would think kids would be happy and healthy and taken care of. in my mind, i am very happy to support them doing school stuff or acting clubs or theater programs that are designed in the best interests of kids, but in a professional environment, i would discourage it. >> you said working with catherine bigelow open your eyes to how challenging it was for women in the industry. do you think things have changed now? >> things have changed somewhat. i think the cultural conversation that has happened the last couple of years has certainly changed that.

i feel like some of the obstacles have been removed but certainly not all of them. >> so you are not going to wait another 10 years to make another film? >> i hope not. i don't want to make films for the sake of making films. if i feel there is something urgent about a film as i did this one, i will certainly make one. >> thank you so much. nice to talk to you. >> it never mattered what you thought. we liberated ourselves. we have to ask ourselves who we are. >> they observed. they contact. they report, film, photograph. they are the voice of the voiceless. your eyes in the far-flung reaches of the world. "the observers," a network of 5000 committed citizens working

with france 24. amateur footage and testimonials checked by our journalists and broadcast weekly from "the observers" on france 24 and theobservers. france24.com. ♪

08/23/23 08/23/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> we found evidence saudi border guards have used explosive weapons and shot people at close range in what appears to be a policy targeting migrants and asylum seekers. amy: human rights watch is accusing saudi arabia of killing hundreds of ethiopian migrants and asylum seekers who've tried to cross the yemen-saudi border. we will get the latest.